I find some old maps stupidly fun to play, even though they are badly (or more correct oddly) timed, don't follow the current mappingrules or are just plain unfair (ninjaspinners!). but still, I like to play some of them, and they are also part of the history of osu!
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Deleting Old Ranked Maps vs Osu Seasons
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I disagree witht the idea of a second season since they would be many problems.
TheVileOne point out many of them. But there's another reason why I would delete like 0,5% of the old maps. (I don't know how much would be this.) It's not the old maps are unfunny or bad at mapping. I took some maps as example:
Kana Ueda - Pumpkin Ondo: This map is quite funny. Follows the rhythm nice and something like this would be not worth to unrank.
Team Nekokan - Can't Defeat Airman: You all know this map. The HP-Drain is ridiculous, the spacing is horrible and the spinner might kill your Hands. And there is also the common break bug. So maps like this aren't funny, but not because of the spacing. THis is only my own opinion. But I'm not sure if it makes fun to strain their wrists at this kind of spinners. About the HP-Drain. There's two misses required to lose half of your Life.
Trans-Siberian Orchestra - Wizards In Winter (Insane/Impossible): Also well known, because for the Ninja Spinners. So the Ninja Spinners make it impossible to pass the Map with S (and I don't name about SS). Even if the Map is from 2007, this is something that should be not. Because just of these Ninja Spinners it is stupid. Because the rest of the two diffs is nice and would be fine for this time.
So my three comments to this maps goes to my opinion. I don't know how do you think about them and at similar maps. But the last two are extreme example.
TheVileOne point out many of them. But there's another reason why I would delete like 0,5% of the old maps. (I don't know how much would be this.) It's not the old maps are unfunny or bad at mapping. I took some maps as example:
Kana Ueda - Pumpkin Ondo: This map is quite funny. Follows the rhythm nice and something like this would be not worth to unrank.
Team Nekokan - Can't Defeat Airman: You all know this map. The HP-Drain is ridiculous, the spacing is horrible and the spinner might kill your Hands. And there is also the common break bug. So maps like this aren't funny, but not because of the spacing. THis is only my own opinion. But I'm not sure if it makes fun to strain their wrists at this kind of spinners. About the HP-Drain. There's two misses required to lose half of your Life.
Trans-Siberian Orchestra - Wizards In Winter (Insane/Impossible): Also well known, because for the Ninja Spinners. So the Ninja Spinners make it impossible to pass the Map with S (and I don't name about SS). Even if the Map is from 2007, this is something that should be not. Because just of these Ninja Spinners it is stupid. Because the rest of the two diffs is nice and would be fine for this time.
So my three comments to this maps goes to my opinion. I don't know how do you think about them and at similar maps. But the last two are extreme example.
I agree with Gon, TheVileOne, and Sakura. I wouldn't want any old maps to be deleted for any reason. Old maps are nostalgic and part of history of osu!
Also, osu! does not need seasons. osu! is fine the way it is.
Also, osu! does not need seasons. osu! is fine the way it is.
Depending on map, i enjoy playing it way more than most of new maps. Sure i say "omg, that timing/pattern/whatever is so retarded" but its in middle of a laugh and i find myself having a great time. There are obviously some maps that makes me rage and all, but srsly, we have new maps enough for you to just ignore old ones if you don't like them.
(It would be my worst day on osu if some maps like Love Shine or Scatman ever get unranked)
(It would be my worst day on osu if some maps like Love Shine or Scatman ever get unranked)
I agree completely.LunaticMara wrote:
Am I the only one who finds 2008-2009 maps fun over the current maps?
Shit.
I can say that i played (when i started osu! in feb. 2011) old maps a lot. I loved them. Each one was different in its own kind. They were hard yeah but new players are no accuracy whores like some players are 
They are part of osu!
It would be a shame to delete a part of it.
Btw there are really fun maps from '07 - '09
but that is all subjectiv.
They are part of osu!
It would be a shame to delete a part of it.
Btw there are really fun maps from '07 - '09
but that is all subjectiv.Blue Dragon wrote:
I disagree with this so much that my heart is torn apart by just looking at it
Deleting the old maps is like deleting the variety and creativity of osu! \o\
No really, most of the new maps are almost identical. Old maps are different from each other, so being able to play one of them doesn't mean you can play every other one, like the case with newer maps.
Aka. they're fun.
No really, most of the new maps are almost identical. Old maps are different from each other, so being able to play one of them doesn't mean you can play every other one, like the case with newer maps.
Aka. they're fun.
Let's delete maps that I don't like ok? RESPECT MY AUTORITAH
gonna post this again because people still dont get itsilmarilen wrote:
its not about if the song plays nice, its about if it would actually be rankable if it was made today
implying people knew what ranking rules will be in the future.silmarilen wrote:
gonna post this again because people still dont get itsilmarilen wrote:
its not about if the song plays nice, its about if it would actually be rankable if it was made today
If you don't like a map, don't play it.
Nobody cares if some noobs quit, it's their problem, not mappers' problem and nobody is going to delete maps that mappers spent their time on just because they're old and some people don't like them. I said some people because there are people (me included) who cherish these maps as something that reminds them of good ol' times.
tl;dr gtfo
im not even supporting it myself, im just saying that he didnt suggest it because he doesnt like the maps.
This guy ♥CXu wrote:
Deleting the old maps is like deleting the variety and creativity of osu! \o\
No really, most of the new maps are almost identical. Old maps are different from each other, so being able to play one of them doesn't mean you can play every other one, like the case with newer maps.
Aka. they're fun.
Sadly, this is true.CXu wrote:
most of the new maps are almost identical
ampzz
You guys can say they are fun and everything but it is a fact that old maps got the same plays in about 3 years than the amount of plays any recent map gets in a few weeks. I know there are more players now but still you find most people playing recent maps instead of super old ones. I also like *a few* old maps but it is true that the maps quality overall has been getting better and better over time.
i'd rather delete some of the new ones 
thisLa Cataline wrote:
i'd rather delete some of the new ones
isn't there a new season, like, every month?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^La Cataline wrote:
i'd rather delete some of the new ones
La Cataline wrote:
i'd rather delete some of the new ones
silmarilen wrote:
its not about if the song plays nice, its about if it would actually be rankable if it was made today
From all the topic, I can say that...
I do suck at old maps and I personally hate them, but that's only my opinion, some people say they are good.
However my opinion is the major opinion(more then 70 % would agree that old maps sux) and when a new player(especially from Europe/US) start playing, he searches some songs he knows and then he is forced to play something he wouldn't like and will get bored and quit soon because he won't see how awesome the new maps are for example(can't agree also on 100% on that but, you know when one map is up to standards and you know how an old one looks like).
I do suck at old maps and I personally hate them, but that's only my opinion, some people say they are good.
However my opinion is the major opinion(more then 70 % would agree that old maps sux) and when a new player(especially from Europe/US) start playing, he searches some songs he knows and then he is forced to play something he wouldn't like and will get bored and quit soon because he won't see how awesome the new maps are for example(can't agree also on 100% on that but, you know when one map is up to standards and you know how an old one looks like).
If you dislike the old maps so much do what I did, learn to map and remap them. Did that to all Toradora openings/endings (not like I hate the old ones, love them really 
). Maps are ranked based on ranking criteria at that time. When a new rule appears, maps before that don't get unranked, they just don't apply to that rule. Plus osu! community grows everyday. Losing a fraction of that doesn't hurt osu!'s rep. one bit.
). Maps are ranked based on ranking criteria at that time. When a new rule appears, maps before that don't get unranked, they just don't apply to that rule. Plus osu! community grows everyday. Losing a fraction of that doesn't hurt osu!'s rep. one bit.dont delete bad apple q_q
I think to fix 90% of the old maps people hate, just bring up the circle size from the cursor size to one that is a bit more managable. Sometimes I can make it through the timing errors, but the hitcircle size being almost exactly the size of my mouse is problematic and makes things more based off grinding at the song to learn the timing errors + patterns than going with the song.
No, and for new players they just have to read :
That's it....
Season thing already exist as Ranking Chart.
Don't like a beatmap of a song you love ? Make your own diff... Lazy to get it ranked ? Don't upload it and enjoy it when you want.
That's it....
Season thing already exist as Ranking Chart.
Don't like a beatmap of a song you love ? Make your own diff... Lazy to get it ranked ? Don't upload it and enjoy it when you want.
No.
You are disrespecting old mapper's effort and the progression of maps. Without the development in the past few years you will never see "fun" maps that exists in 2012. You're disrespecting old players' effort. How many times they have tried to beat a hard maps? And what will they think if the old maps are unranked? Players are complaining deleting the score after the map is ranked for 24 hours, and you're going to wipe scores and lasted for more than 24 months? You are also deducing arguements without strong evidence. I don't see a majority of player quit in 2009 because maps are poor, so as in 2012. Inversely I know some new players quit in 2012 because maps nowdays are generally harder. Should I delete newly ranked maps?
Maps in the old days are not necessarily as good as now, but they are worthy to stay ranked. I don't know how you are making the conclusion of not fun, and note that fun is not equivalent to technically fine. Back in 2007, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/243 Marisa is ranked and it's FCed more than 2 years after it's ranked, and it's still a major challenge in 2012; in 2008, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/935 this is already unrankable but it widely appreciated; Usatei ranked in 2009 http://osu.ppy.sh/s/3959 is unrankable in current criteria, but no one said it boring; and another example http://osu.ppy.sh/s/5774 Strangeprogram up to now no one FCed this one but is treated as one of the most epic storyboard ever.
Since you mentioned pp system, I don't see the point to argue that "retrying old maps are boring" (and this is wrong as there are still players retrying old maps and really enjoying it), and at the same time players are not necessarily need to grind every single map to raise their pp value, playing more hard maps will do.
2. This is disrespecting old players, especially those who AFK already and you can still see their record in the ranking. And there's still a large proportion of player that care the score. Making such a conclusion is ridiculous and one of the trivial evidence is more people quoting their score banner in the signature instead of the pp value.
Do you know how much work the MAT/BAT are doing? I swear your idea is greatly increase the team's workload. Also, you are destroying a stable ranking flow of the map as seasonal map pack implies some map are ranked for longer time and some for shorter time, and this creates a even higher workload for the team in the peak period.
The idea is not going to work seriously, and deleting old maps are disrespecting the old community. This is the conclusion.
And reading the rest of the reply I'll add some points here.
2. You don't have triue evidence do you? If you think it's good enough tell the mapper and encourage him/her to get it ranked, not blaming the old ones.
3. What unpractical? This is not practical considering what BATs are doing. Bubbled maps are "ready for rank" and they still get many problems and not to mention finding more of the BATs cheacking the map across different season. Try to judge this when you've learnt how to mod.
There are some quotes in the thread that I deeply agree:
You are disrespecting old mapper's effort and the progression of maps. Without the development in the past few years you will never see "fun" maps that exists in 2012. You're disrespecting old players' effort. How many times they have tried to beat a hard maps? And what will they think if the old maps are unranked? Players are complaining deleting the score after the map is ranked for 24 hours, and you're going to wipe scores and lasted for more than 24 months? You are also deducing arguements without strong evidence. I don't see a majority of player quit in 2009 because maps are poor, so as in 2012. Inversely I know some new players quit in 2012 because maps nowdays are generally harder. Should I delete newly ranked maps?
Maps in the old days are not necessarily as good as now, but they are worthy to stay ranked. I don't know how you are making the conclusion of not fun, and note that fun is not equivalent to technically fine. Back in 2007, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/243 Marisa is ranked and it's FCed more than 2 years after it's ranked, and it's still a major challenge in 2012; in 2008, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/935 this is already unrankable but it widely appreciated; Usatei ranked in 2009 http://osu.ppy.sh/s/3959 is unrankable in current criteria, but no one said it boring; and another example http://osu.ppy.sh/s/5774 Strangeprogram up to now no one FCed this one but is treated as one of the most epic storyboard ever.
Since you mentioned pp system, I don't see the point to argue that "retrying old maps are boring" (and this is wrong as there are still players retrying old maps and really enjoying it), and at the same time players are not necessarily need to grind every single map to raise their pp value, playing more hard maps will do.
1. New players would not be able to find them as easily, and they'll end up playing new ranked maps. This might either lead them to enjoy the game more, due to more fun maps, or quit the game faster, because of not finding the songs they want to play on.1. This is a loss of osu!, we will lost many good maps and loss the variety of songs.
2. A lot of old players would lose a lot of their old scores.
On #2, I think that had osu still used the score system like it used to, there would be a lot of opposition for this. However now that the PP system kicked in, would losing those old scores really matter? Would players who grinded for hours to get an SS with HR+FL on some random map from 2010 be angry that their score achievement is no longer visible to the public? Does anybody even look at that anymore? <- I'm curious to see what old players have to say on this.
2. This is disrespecting old players, especially those who AFK already and you can still see their record in the ranking. And there's still a large proportion of player that care the score. Making such a conclusion is ridiculous and one of the trivial evidence is more people quoting their score banner in the signature instead of the pp value.
Here's an idea: instead of deleting old ranked maps, why not create leaderboard seasons? Start an osu Season 2, players would get to keep their Season 1 stats which would be whatever stats they had on the start of S2, but starting from that point onwards, all of your plays would count towards S2. Stuff like global accuracy, score, pp, etc, would be season-specific, and you'll be able to see people's current season stats normally like right now, while old season stats would be archived per account and visible on a small table in a small section that belongs to it.I bet you haven't go into any trials of mapping yet.
Almost every single game with a leaderboard has seasons that reset stats per new season. Frankly I'm surprised osu didn't do this yet.
Every time a new season starts, maps would need to be re-ranked. i.e. re-reviewed for ranking. If a map was ranked for S1, it won't be automatically ranked for S2 until re-reviewed. The re-review should be much easier and faster than an initial review of a map in WIP state, because you'd be going over maps in their already final state. So the process would be as simple just play each map difficulty once, and if it feels alright, re-rank it. If there's a minor problem you could even fix it while re-ranking. (For example the background image for No.39... the map is good... just replace the BG image lol)
Even though map difficulties are completely different maps, I think just checking the top difficulty can be enough to judge if the map was mapped well or not. Maybe two diffs if it's a collab map. So re-ranking shouldn't take long... with an average of 3 minutes drain time per map (and it really is less I bet), you could re-rank 15-20 maps per hour alone. With a MAT team of several people, who are osu players anyway who spend time playing maps anyway, and it wouldn't take them any more effort than re-playing an old map and saying whether it's okay or not, you could re-rank a few hundreds of maps per week.
For simplicity, just keep the last 2 months ranked maps from Season X still ranked for season X+1, and MATs can randomly take time to play maps from earlier than 2 months and onwards back in the timeline to re-rank them, or if they just remember a fun map from their memory re-rank it after playing it once instantly.
Do you know how much work the MAT/BAT are doing? I swear your idea is greatly increase the team's workload. Also, you are destroying a stable ranking flow of the map as seasonal map pack implies some map are ranked for longer time and some for shorter time, and this creates a even higher workload for the team in the peak period.
The idea is not going to work seriously, and deleting old maps are disrespecting the old community. This is the conclusion.
And reading the rest of the reply I'll add some points here.
1 - people with scores on old maps don't want to lose them1. The number actually represents the effort paid, and some of them are shown in terms of online replay. Simiarly more of your statistics like play counts, total scores, or even pp are also numbers. Does that imply that I can simply take them away? No. People playing MMORPG are also playing with numbers? Are they doing meaningless things? Maybe. Shouldn't you take away their numbers like power, HP, money too?
2 - people assume mappers would get offended by having their old maps unranked
3 - unpractical execution, i.e. either takes too long to unrank all and re-rank some, or only un-rank some but all the ones you need to
for 1... not much to say. Move on. It's just a number. Isn't it enough for you to know of your own accomplishment?
as for 2, I think it's more offensive for mappers that made a great map in recent months and it sits in graveyard for weeks because no MAT/BAT looked at it, while there's many maps that much less effort was put into making that are already ranked simply because their song was more popular.
2. You don't have triue evidence do you? If you think it's good enough tell the mapper and encourage him/her to get it ranked, not blaming the old ones.
3. What unpractical? This is not practical considering what BATs are doing. Bubbled maps are "ready for rank" and they still get many problems and not to mention finding more of the BATs cheacking the map across different season. Try to judge this when you've learnt how to mod.
Play count is not a measurement of quality of map. Back to mid 2008 there're only 10000 players and there're 1400000 now. Multiplying the play count of old maps by 140 is even more than the play count nowdays ---- so old maps are appreciated by a even larger proportion of players than now. Also the play count is also determined by the genre of the song. More people play vocaloid song and less of them play pop.Wishy22 wrote:
You guys can say they are fun and everything but it is a fact that old maps got the same plays in about 3 years than the amount of plays any recent map gets in a few weeks. I know there are more players now but still you find most people playing recent maps instead of super old ones. I also like *a few* old maps but it is true that the maps quality overall has been getting better and better over time.
There are some quotes in the thread that I deeply agree:
In additional, the current rules to a certain extent reduced the creativity of maps created. If you want to know what is creativity, search Rolled's MAX FOREVER.CXu wrote:
most of the new maps are almost identical
La Cataline wrote:
i'd rather delete some of the new ones
No, I'm with you.LunaticMara wrote:
Am I the only one who finds 2008-2009 maps fun over the current maps?
Not really. WiW is my only C but I want to keep it forever. http://puu.sh/A8f4Blue Dragon wrote:
this thread tl;dr'd: people who played wizards in winter and want their accuracy back
Blue Dragon wrote:
I disagree with this so much that my heart is torn apart by just looking at it
the old maps witness the progress of osu...
they're history.
they're history.
其实根本就不应该删的。
大家如果真的感觉老歌怎么怎么地，老歌做的不好，老歌不华丽，老歌技术不行，或者各种问题。
加一个分类不就行了啊，这么简单的事情扯那么大。
谁提出要删的，那不是扯淡么！开玩笑。
大家如果真的感觉老歌怎么怎么地，老歌做的不好，老歌不华丽，老歌技术不行，或者各种问题。
加一个分类不就行了啊，这么简单的事情扯那么大。
谁提出要删的，那不是扯淡么！开玩笑。
with no doubt, no.
Do not alter anything on an old ranked already map. No matter how bad quality it has.
Never forget today's achievements are all built on the previous work, how dare you remove the base of a high building?
Do not alter anything on an old ranked already map. No matter how bad quality it has.
Never forget today's achievements are all built on the previous work, how dare you remove the base of a high building?
if any1 here unranks old maps, i will unrank their lifes.
This is quickly turning into a cliche'd new vs old fight, but in this one though I'm a newfag I have to agree with the older players, things are fine as they are right now( maybe not perfect but you get the point) , why would you want to wreck the balance and completely disrespect older players and mappers?
It's like calling a revolution for an extreme minority here, I personally started this game with some old maps of songs I liked, I couldn't play at first because of my 1998 card, but after tasting this game on my laptop I sure as hell stayed. Thing is, just like me, if they want to stay, they will stay, if I were peppy I'd of course prefer satisfying the already super active main player-base or the legends of older times rather than a few newcomers who might leave at any moment.
osu! seasons is completely out of the questions for reasons already explained by wmfchris, so is going through every ranked map before 2009 and only keeping the rankable and fun ones, I'm sorry.
Besides, say this game were to last till 2015/6? What would we do with the current maps we consider good and some even legendary? The same thing? See the pointlessness in this now? If we did something like this we'd have to do it every few years, wasting lots of effort and drastically reducing the number of songs available, I'd rather play a bad map than no map yo.
It's like calling a revolution for an extreme minority here, I personally started this game with some old maps of songs I liked, I couldn't play at first because of my 1998 card, but after tasting this game on my laptop I sure as hell stayed. Thing is, just like me, if they want to stay, they will stay, if I were peppy I'd of course prefer satisfying the already super active main player-base or the legends of older times rather than a few newcomers who might leave at any moment.
osu! seasons is completely out of the questions for reasons already explained by wmfchris, so is going through every ranked map before 2009 and only keeping the rankable and fun ones, I'm sorry.
Besides, say this game were to last till 2015/6? What would we do with the current maps we consider good and some even legendary? The same thing? See the pointlessness in this now? If we did something like this we'd have to do it every few years, wasting lots of effort and drastically reducing the number of songs available, I'd rather play a bad map than no map yo.
Final draft of an idea to make sure newbies get a taste of new, "better" maps. Just start them off with a few favourites when they download osu!.
Bad Apple has enough difficulties to satisfy a difficulty curve, and tons of people like the song and end up playing it anyways. Same with Senbonzakura, or any other map that has been in the "most played" section for a while. If you start players off with a few songs that meet today's ranking standards, they are more likely to stay onboard, even if they hit the old maps. When it comes to beatmaps, players will only leave if they can't tolerate nightcore/japanese, or they never find a quality map that they enjoy. I'm on board for remapping some old favorites, but until we get another 200 obscure songs mapped, players will still join and find the old ones.
-No old maps are changed, no old mappers insulted
-Players get to play newer maps
-Great mappers have another goal, getting a map in the starter list of 5-20 songs
-Scores of players who grinded old maps wont change
-New players are exposed to multiple types of music instead of just anime openings/video game music, right out of the gate.
-Why the heck not?
Bad Apple has enough difficulties to satisfy a difficulty curve, and tons of people like the song and end up playing it anyways. Same with Senbonzakura, or any other map that has been in the "most played" section for a while. If you start players off with a few songs that meet today's ranking standards, they are more likely to stay onboard, even if they hit the old maps. When it comes to beatmaps, players will only leave if they can't tolerate nightcore/japanese, or they never find a quality map that they enjoy. I'm on board for remapping some old favorites, but until we get another 200 obscure songs mapped, players will still join and find the old ones.
-No old maps are changed, no old mappers insulted
-Players get to play newer maps
-Great mappers have another goal, getting a map in the starter list of 5-20 songs
-Scores of players who grinded old maps wont change
-New players are exposed to multiple types of music instead of just anime openings/video game music, right out of the gate.
-Why the heck not?
imo, you can map a song which you like if you think the ranked version is not good enough :>
delete old maps is the same to destroy all museums in your country :<
delete old maps is the same to destroy all museums in your country :<
There are starter packs available in osu!.Mithost wrote:
Final draft of an idea to make sure newbies get a taste of new, "better" maps. Just start them off with a few favourites when they download osu!.
Bad Apple has enough difficulties to satisfy a difficulty curve, and tons of people like the song and end up playing it anyways. Same with Senbonzakura, or any other map that has been in the "most played" section for a while. If you start players off with a few songs that meet today's ranking standards, they are more likely to stay onboard, even if they hit the old maps. When it comes to beatmaps, players will only leave if they can't tolerate nightcore/japanese, or they never find a quality map that they enjoy. I'm on board for remapping some old favorites, but until we get another 200 obscure songs mapped, players will still join and find the old ones.
-No old maps are changed, no old mappers insulted
-Players get to play newer maps
-Great mappers have another goal, getting a map in the starter list of 5-20 songs
-Scores of players who grinded old maps wont change
-New players are exposed to multiple types of music instead of just anime openings/video game music, right out of the gate.
-Why the heck not?
If you are going to suggest maps pre-included in the installer go to the feature request board, not here.
yea!Natteke wrote:
Let's delete maps that I don't like ok? RESPECT MY AUTORITAH
GladiOol wrote:
if any1 here unranks old maps, i will unrank their lifes.
Topic Starter
Thanks a lot for your post wmfchris, it was very insightful, I liked what you said and agree with it.
Gotta make something clear for this thread: I never suggested to /remove/ old maps. That would be terrible of course! Keep them playable for all who wants to play them. I only suggested to un-rank them, due to modern criteria. Maybe I have a flawed vision on the impact of whether a map if ranked or not because over 75% of my plays on osu are on not-ranked maps (i.e. don't care what's ranked, just play what's fun).
I agree a lot with the notion that most of the newest ranked maps feel completely identical, and generally unimaginative and boring. Except for maybe 2-4 standing-out ranked maps per week, the rest not really have anything unique in them that would make you want to re-play them ever after already getting a score.
My style of downloading maps is: go to account page of favorite mappers, look in their maps list, download maps from it. Not care if ranked or not. Then check their favorite maps, check mapper's pages of their mappers, and download from them too. Etc. Because of this I thought un-ranking maps is not a big deal, it's not like it stops you from playing your favorite maps or finding them. It removes the score, but I never cared for score, it surprised me how much people care for their scores. Oh well, understandable.
Also, the maps pointed out in wmfchris's post's beginning are the kind of maps I'd like to *keep* and preserve, not the kind of maps to de-rank. It seems like everybody got the idea that the suggestion was to delete old maps that are really hard for non-standard reasons, which is totally not what I meant.
Either way, already dropped the idea of changing rankage of past. Looks like most players have a strong attachment to their past scores! So keep it haha.
---
However, now I wonder:
If a mapper wants his own map to get unranked after it had already become ranked, and even delete it from his page/history, would this be ok, or is this taboo too? Since the players who had scores on it might get angry, right? What do you think?
Very curious to know, because I'm going to start to map now, and believe I would want to delete my older maps once I get better at mapping over time. Other people (players/mappers) might want to preserve their history/past, but I have different beliefs, and prefer to only look forward. Should a mapper have the decision power to unrank his own old maps, or should this not be allowed? Since after all rank is BAT/MAT decision, not mapper decision.
Gotta make something clear for this thread: I never suggested to /remove/ old maps. That would be terrible of course! Keep them playable for all who wants to play them. I only suggested to un-rank them, due to modern criteria. Maybe I have a flawed vision on the impact of whether a map if ranked or not because over 75% of my plays on osu are on not-ranked maps (i.e. don't care what's ranked, just play what's fun).
I agree a lot with the notion that most of the newest ranked maps feel completely identical, and generally unimaginative and boring. Except for maybe 2-4 standing-out ranked maps per week, the rest not really have anything unique in them that would make you want to re-play them ever after already getting a score.
My style of downloading maps is: go to account page of favorite mappers, look in their maps list, download maps from it. Not care if ranked or not. Then check their favorite maps, check mapper's pages of their mappers, and download from them too. Etc. Because of this I thought un-ranking maps is not a big deal, it's not like it stops you from playing your favorite maps or finding them. It removes the score, but I never cared for score, it surprised me how much people care for their scores. Oh well, understandable.
Also, the maps pointed out in wmfchris's post's beginning are the kind of maps I'd like to *keep* and preserve, not the kind of maps to de-rank. It seems like everybody got the idea that the suggestion was to delete old maps that are really hard for non-standard reasons, which is totally not what I meant.
Either way, already dropped the idea of changing rankage of past. Looks like most players have a strong attachment to their past scores! So keep it haha.
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However, now I wonder:
If a mapper wants his own map to get unranked after it had already become ranked, and even delete it from his page/history, would this be ok, or is this taboo too? Since the players who had scores on it might get angry, right? What do you think?
Very curious to know, because I'm going to start to map now, and believe I would want to delete my older maps once I get better at mapping over time. Other people (players/mappers) might want to preserve their history/past, but I have different beliefs, and prefer to only look forward. Should a mapper have the decision power to unrank his own old maps, or should this not be allowed? Since after all rank is BAT/MAT decision, not mapper decision.
Doesn't matter. People nowadays don't even play VERY old maps but DO play somewhat old maps. There is a big difference between the quality map's have now and what map's had before. Remember back then the edit system was different, you even had less tools, the standard quality for ranking was WAY low since you couldn't afford to leave some map waiting for half an year to get ranked, etc.wmfchris wrote:
Etc.
Not saying old maps should be deleted, just saying most of them are BAD and even if YOU or a few more players like them it doesn't mean the majority of the community does. Parting from the fact only very old players actually "enjoy them" and the only possible data you can look at is the play count they got, which is extremely low meaning they are not really popular since there isn't really many people playing them > nowadays <.
You can really say anything but hey if you like old maps that much and think most people think like you, look at the actual data and you'll see how little does the forum community represent@this game. Many people here loving old maps but they still got almost no plays at all, and when I see some of those guys playing they are almost never playing that old stuff they like. Trying to be an oldie doesn't make you cool.
Different, yes. Bad, no.Wishy22 wrote:
just saying most of them are BAD
>thread titleAqo wrote:
Gotta make something clear for this thread: I never suggested to /remove/ old maps - I only suggested to un-rank them, due to modern criteria.
I personally think that "modern criteria" shouldn't apply to any and all old ranked maps. It's pretty much relative, it always changes over time. Maybe in one point it may even lead to a situation where some of today maps are labeled as bad/low quality/unrankable maps and someone wants them to be unranked/removed.
The whole "map unranking" practice should be avoided at all time since it always brings controversy between players, mapper, and XATs. Hence, it's just a waste of time especially for XATs team.
If you find old maps are rather shit to you, just delete them off your Songs folder and never play them ever again, how hard could that be? I don't even understand why the fuck do you even care about old maps and new players playing them so much at the first place until you came up with these ideas.
Most of them would be unrankable nowadays, meaning that according with the rank standards they are, indeed, bad.CXu wrote:
Different, yes. Bad, no.Wishy22 wrote:
just saying most of them are BAD
ima go pitch my fix for this problem in feature requests. Brb
No. If you talk about 2008 and 2009 maps they do follow the basic rules like spacing. Only a small proportion of them is really unrankable, and among them half of it is epic maps that would never be created in 2012.Wishy22 wrote:
Most of them would be unrankable nowadays.
ou can really say anything but hey if you like old maps that much and think most people think like you, look at the actual data and you'll see how little does the forum community represent@this game. Many people here loving old maps but they still got almost no plays at all, and when I see some of those guys playing they are almost never playing that old stuff they like. Trying to be an oldie doesn't make you cool.I know many of them still quoting 2008 and 2009 songs in multiplayer games, and your arguement also lack of evidence showing that people outside the forum are supporting the idea. btw if you talk about players playing it, I can tell you the plays/week of old maps is underestimated. It's just a simple math question:
SPOILER
Taking average value. In set A there are 20 1's. In set B there are 5 1's. Raising the average of set A to 2 is harder than than of raising set B with the same value adding to both set. The same idea applied here. The average value of PC of old maps are increase since 2008, implyng that the recent average play count of the maps could be double or even more than what you see, and that has been significant.
And I don't see how I'm odd as many more players don't support unranking them.
Gotta make something clear for this thread: I never suggested to /remove/ old maps. That would be terrible of course! Keep them playable for all who wants to play them. I only suggested to un-rank them, due to modern criteria. Maybe I have a flawed vision on the impact of whether a map if ranked or not because over 75% of my plays on osu are on not-ranked maps (i.e. don't care what's ranked, just play what's fun).I would say this is uncommon in standard mode and most players I know only plays ranked stuffs unless they are testing pending stuffs or the map is controversial.
If a mapper wants his own map to get unranked after it had already become ranked, and even delete it from his page/history, would this be ok, or is this taboo too? Since the players who had scores on it might get angry, right? What do you think?If you are getting it ranked, it implies that you are willing to share your effort, and sharing is an irreversible process. Ranked beatmap has a significant effect of promoting maps and allow mapper and players to communicate the idea on the map. If the map is unranked just because mapper's own willing this is also disrecpecting other's effort on the map.
Perhaps it's better not to say these and you should experience yourself. Try to make your own map and get infintely many mods and curel critism -> failed to find MATs/BATs in many many days -> gets your bubble popped -> and the happiness achieved when it's ranked. Then you'll know why mappers will not want their maps unranked.
cool maps probably wont exist like nowdays if bad maps were never existed in the past
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Maybe you can hide old beatmaps from the ranked beatmap search but unranking or even delete is very ... stupid? in my opinion. There are players that played it and still play them maybe, some maps are not even that horrible too and there are good ones too with good rhythm and spacing. The circle size and approach rate is only the biggest difference from todays mapping but back then players could play them aswell. Im 100% against delete...
I get annoyed slightly by your words. WhoWishy22 wrote:
just saying most of them are BAD
Most of them would be unrankable nowadays, meaning that according with the rank standards they are, indeed, bad.
Ranking Rules and standards never relate to map quality. If you insist on thinking that, you've been barin washed seriously by something or someone. What a shame.
If those guidelines/rules you need to follow to get a map ranked do not ensure the map is good and it's quality is at the very least very good, then you're doing something wrong, sorry.
Most of the best maps never get ranked/take years to, I know that, but still I want to think this game's staff is not silly enough to make rules so retarded that even by following them your map can be shit/not fun/bad/etc. I play some old maps and I just understand why nobody plays them at all, they ARE bad and even when you got like 9 players here saying the love them, nobody plays them, because of any reason you can think of (boring map, low AR, bad MP3, etc), otherwise they wouldn't have just a few plays over 4/5 years.
Most of the best maps never get ranked/take years to, I know that, but still I want to think this game's staff is not silly enough to make rules so retarded that even by following them your map can be shit/not fun/bad/etc. I play some old maps and I just understand why nobody plays them at all, they ARE bad and even when you got like 9 players here saying the love them, nobody plays them, because of any reason you can think of (boring map, low AR, bad MP3, etc), otherwise they wouldn't have just a few plays over 4/5 years.
Even if they are bad/retarded or whatever you say, Old maps arent being unranked, it aint happening, and it wont happen.
You aren't forced to play old maps unless it's a song you like, and that can be easily fixed by someone (or yourself) making a better map of it.
As far as the osu! Seasons goes, i dont think it will ever get implemented but feel free to throw your suggestion on feature requests.
End of discussion.
You aren't forced to play old maps unless it's a song you like, and that can be easily fixed by someone (or yourself) making a better map of it.
As far as the osu! Seasons goes, i dont think it will ever get implemented but feel free to throw your suggestion on feature requests.
End of discussion.