ZHSteven wrote:

I am very sorry my English is very bad ,so may I know what is the actual meaning of "supposedly" ?
Are you making an assumption?

supposedly means "apparently" or "assumed to be true".

don't forget to look in a dictionary: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/supposed

ziin wrote:

ZHSteven wrote:

I am very sorry my English is very bad ,so may I know what is the actual meaning of "supposedly" ?
Are you making an assumption?

supposedly means "apparently" or "assumed to be true".

don't forget to look in a dictionary: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/supposed

Thanks for your information. Now know a word ~lol

I can mod Taiko diffs despite not being able to play them because i can autoplay it and see that nothing glitches up with the map, however this cant be done with CTB because autoplay in CTB does stuff that you normally cant do to begin with.
So I guess this would be a problem for people play testing CTB diffs, if CTB takes the same approach as Taiko and map only super insanely hard difficulties then who will be able to mod them with playtesting?

That's why we made this : http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=74050&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

The community don't really want absurd diffs to be ranked. They want fun to play and FCable maps, and this is the point of the guidelines and the modding queue.

Yeah but what about the ammount of members of the BAT that can play them? if i cant mod a difficulty of a mapset i wont be ranking it that's for sure, if they become rankable you guys should be ready for stuff like that.

Sakura Hana wrote:

Yeah but what about the ammount of members of the BAT that can play them? if i cant mod a difficulty of a mapset i wont be ranking it that's for sure, if they become rankable you guys should be ready for stuff like that.

Not every single BAT can play-test a taiko diff afaik. That's why mappers ask to taiko players to test them.

Why not with CTB as well?

Deif wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

Yeah but what about the ammount of members of the BAT that can play them? if i cant mod a difficulty of a mapset i wont be ranking it that's for sure, if they become rankable you guys should be ready for stuff like that.

Not every single BAT can play-test a taiko diff afaik. That's why mappers ask to taiko players to test them.

Why not with CTB as well?

Auto play at least helps when playtesting, unlike on CTB where autoplay doesn't work correctly.

The only thing you can't see with autoplay is the jump difficulty factor.

So the lack of BATs playing CtB is the only factor of not ranking CtB maps ? Why don't you just thrust modding team about the jump difficulty on a map ?

That's where the community should step in. Whenever there is a CTB difficulty in a pending mapset, mappers and modders alike should call on some well-known CTB players. Ask for testplay. I know I will be glad and willing to help, and I'm sure a lot of others will be also.

Deif wrote:

Not every single BAT can play-test a taiko diff afaik. That's why mappers ask to taiko players to test them.

Why not with CTB as well?

This point is very hard to refute. While CtB autoplay does "cheat", the number of times this makes a difference is moot. That's why there are taiko "experts", and there are ctb "experts". Modding should not be an issue at all, if taiko's issues are negligible.

EDIT: dat 3-post combo. I know I, for sure, will be open to help mod for ctb like KRZY, even though i'm not the best.

Drafura wrote:

The only thing you can't see with autoplay is the jump difficulty factor.

So the lack of BATs playing CtB is the only factor of not ranking CtB maps ? Why don't you just thrust modding team about the jump difficulty on a map ?

It's not a factor, just saying that you will have a harder time finding a BAT to rank it if your mapset has a CTB difficulty included on it (unless the ranking BAT doesn't care)

Sakura Hana wrote:

It's not a factor, just saying that you will have a harder time finding a BAT to rank it if your mapset has a CTB difficulty included on it (unless the ranking BAT doesn't care)

just like taiko rite?

Shiirn wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

It's not a factor, just saying that you will have a harder time finding a BAT to rank it if your mapset has a CTB difficulty included on it (unless the ranking BAT doesn't care)

just like taiko rite?

I can play Taiko fine until Muzukashii level, i've played the TnT games and also even made my own Taiko map once, even tho i cant play onis, just by watching them in auto play i can get an idea of how good/bad it is and make suggestions if neccessary or fixes (even tho when a map is bubbled Taiko diffs are mostly fine).

I have no prior experience with CTB, and cant tell what's good from what's not, so in order to avoid making mistakes i just dont rank/bubble a map that has a CTB diff, since i cant and shouldnt trust the bubbler of the map or any modders on the map and should see it for myself.

Edit: This is me personally talking about my own case, i do not know how other BATs do it when they mod bubbled maps and find this situation.

Sakura Hana wrote:

I can play Taiko fine until Muzukashii level, i've played the TnT games and also even made my own Taiko map once, even tho i cant play onis, just by watching them in auto play i can get an idea of how good/bad it is and make suggestions if neccessary or fixes (even tho when a map is bubbled Taiko diffs are mostly fine).

I have no prior experience with CTB, and cant tell what's good from what's not, so in order to avoid making mistakes i just dont rank/bubble a map that has a CTB diff, since i cant and shouldnt trust the bubbler of the map or any modders on the map and should see it for myself.

But... nobody cares about you. You're making general statements about the entire staff based off your own opinions. Nobody cares about your thoughts. Can you please publicly discuss things as a BAT, not a single blind-marred woman? That's what being a BAT - a part of a team - is about.

Just giving you guys a fair warning, nothing else, we'll see what happens

Come what may, the whole CtB community (and a few people more than the others) are ready to deal with it.

If that's the case then go ahead and nuke this rule

Sakura's viewpoint is acceptable, and in some cases admirable. I too would be hesitant to rank anything that is entirely out of my league. The only difference is that I would trust other modders and players.

It's true, it will be harder to find a BAT willing to rank a CTB only map. This is the risk the mapper takes. This should never be a factor in deciding whether or not CTB is rankable, or if a CTB only map should be included in the map.

I'm not 100% sure why this discussion is moving in this direction. If Sakura's only problem is that she can't rank/bubble CTB, then that is her decision. It is a team effort, so that if one person is lacking, another can step up and fill the spot. If every single BAT is uncomfortable ranking CTB due to valid personal reasons, then this still has nothing to do with whether or not they are rankable. Eventually there will be a BAT comfortable with ranking CTB.

If BATs have technical limitations of why ranking should not be allowed, then this is a problem and those should be brought up in this thread to be discussed. The cheating autoplay is a technical limitation which can be mitigated by modding and test play.

I have no qualms of this being rankable as long as you guys dont mind it being harder to find a BAT, imagine if every bubbled map has a CTB diff and there's only 1 BAT that can mod CTB, what would happen then?

However that's not a point that can stop it from being rankable. Unless someone disagrees with this being rankable i'll nuke this rule within the next 24 hours.

woah woah hold up let me rez my ctb halcyon map first =p

Please be aware that even if i nuke this, just like Taiko the mapset needs at least 2 osu!standard diffs to be a rankable mapset

Whoa! After all this time, I can't believe this is gonna truly happen ^^

\o/ I'm ready to map if someone needs a CtB guest diff

Well I think everyone has reached an agreement there. The only concerns left about CtB diffs being unrankable have been cleared, the CtB community has a team of modders and mappers willing to help, so...

I'll see with peppy first. >.>

Yay! Its happening! Happy!

Oh god, I'm so excited! ♥

Before more people post happiness messages, hold off.

I have to talk to peppy about it, because peppy was the one who said they were unrankable in the first place.

right thread this time \:D/

<3

if this does get put into effect, how about CTB-MATS?

Jacob wrote:

<3

if this does get put into effect, how about CTB-MATS?

I don't know, maybe the BATs talked/are talking about this allready, but I don't think this will happen (ever)/soon, since the Taiko community asked that severel times in the past.
But for now it seams like you take a big step into this system. Wish you guys good luck.

I'm already effectively a CTB-mat (although im way out of practice) so whatever

i could help in ctb comunity as far as i can :X

also using the standard standards with the 'hit notes' of taiko and mapping improvement in the grid you will get ctb diffs easyly and some awsome patterns

Well apparently i can't nuke this without getting peppy's approval first because this rule is a special case orz but well Odaril's already on that so... be patient

Sakura Hana wrote:

Well apparently i can't nuke this without getting peppy's approval first because this rule is a special case orz but well Odaril's already on that so... be patient

omg i can't wait XD if it get i'm going to do one before i'll post my new beatmap ^^

Jacob wrote:

<3

if this does get put into effect, how about CTB-MATS?

There are already Shiirn (MAT) and I (BAT) who do mod CtB diffs.
iirc IceBeam plays CtB too, I need to ask him if he wants to participate.

In any way, there is a CtB modding queue.

This rule goes nowhere until we are presented with a proper set of guidelines to at least set a very basic level towards what a proper CtB map should be.

If this rule goes ahead and gets amended without this requirement, then we are just going to end up with another scenario a la Taiko maps, where there is no real set of stringent guidelines, and thus the quality of the ranked Taiko maps is all over the place and generally undesirable.

The only thing stopping CtB is a proper set of guidelines written for the mode. I've said this nearly four times in this thread now so far, and only a few people have taken heed of it. Just post a proper set of guidelines in this thread, and if they're concise enough as they are, we can nuke this rule with nothing more to say about it.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=55363

This has been linked repeatedly.

Because for some reason you refuse to click the link, here's a pasted version:

POSSIBLE CTB GUIDELINES

•Skinned elements of CTB specific maps must be exact size as in the template folder to keep accuracy of gameplay.

•No "StrangeProgram" style sliders.
http://puu.sh/1dEA 
This slider is at 215 bpm with a 2x section and a slider velocity of 2.6
These style sliders are impossible to hit.

•If you are mapping a fast song or using a fast slider velocity (the slider velocity can generally apply to a good amount of CTB mapping) limit your amount of double backing sliders from 3 to 4. Don't put a huge distance between the ending of the 1st slider and the beginning of a new double backing slider. http://puu.sh/1dEO This is an example of double backing sliders.

•If you have a really fast slider velocity, it is suggested that you do not use a tick rate of 4. Using a tick rate 4 with a fast slider velocity makes it so much more easier to combo break. (Try making a hard fun map, not one that makes the player mad)

•Something you should not do is use 2x sliders that kick back at a very fast pace. (Play Banned Forever mapped by Blue Dragon for an example)
This creates more pain then it does fun and not only that, they are incredibly easy to mess up on.

•Hyperdash fruits should not be abused. Abusing these could make a CTB map un-fun.  So use these with care please.

•The authentic approach rate to match EZ2CATCH is AR8 however if your [b]SONG[/b] fits AR9, use AR9 if you would like. Use it with care.

•No hyper dash cancelling fruits.

•Map must be FCable.
EX: No hyper dash cancelling fruits. Those make it impossible to make it to the next fruit thus breaking the combo.

•The smallest circle size allowed is a circle size of 5. Anything smaller should not be used.

•All horizontal sliders must be 100% hittable

•No sliders that are so far to the left or right that Ryuuta can't catch them. EX http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/96078

•No fruits that start directly on a spinner. Raining spinner fruits are easy to confused with normal fruits.

•Comboing is different in CTB so when using sliders with slider ends. In CTB, slider ends count as 2 fruits (or more if you are using a kickback slider) on a plate so count your combos wisely and don't make them super huge.

•If you have more than 1 CTB difficulty (say 2-3) please make sure it has a decent spread such as NH, ENH, NHI (etc)

As for proper maps, there are examples in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=74050&p=1310173#p1310173

I still don't understand the retards who call CtB as No-Game or as "Mini Game".

That is Zelos' list, which I have already read and mentioned multiple times. Nobody has bothered to expand upon it - that's my point.

Now that we have that on the table, let's iron them out properly. They're very vague in places at the moment.

There seems to be a key section about sliders and their properties - particularly velocity and repeats. Reaching a common standard towards what level of repeating is acceptable for good gameplay is a nice start. Tick rate seems to be another one that needs standardizing as well.

Cancelling fruits is mentioned twice, which is redundant if they are already not allowed. It is also common sense that the map must be able to be fully completed.

Why is the circle size locked at a minimum of 5? What impact does this have on gameplay?

Notes before a spinner seems to have the same effect as it does under standard - perhaps limiting it to a set number of stanzas before the spinner is allowed to begin?

Difficulty spread is particularly important for the special game-modes. Taiko is dominated almost exclusively by custom-made high difficulty maps, and I do not want to see this happen for CtB as well. CtB only mapsets should follow the standard spread rules laid out for osu!standard - single CtB difficulties in an osu!standard mapset do not need to follow this.

That list is too sparse and imprecise in its current state. That is why I have repeatedly suggested that the CtB community come together and discuss it properly before we go ahead with this.

Yup :3

Please stop posting shit in this thread. If you're not contributing to the discussion, don't post.

I will refine the guidelines as-is to where they are as pixel-perfect as you wish, Ephemeral. You're forgetting the trial-and-error requirements of modding and mapping - even now, our rules are not perfect and sometimes make no sense to someone who doesn't play - and as someone who doesn't play ctb, some of the rules will make no sense to you but be perfectly understandable (mm201 was quite shocked when he saw how much jargon the ctb community has come up with themselves)


but whatever, you clearly know more about our game mode than we as a community do, so i'll start polishing.

Ephemeral wrote:

That is Zelos' list, which I have already read and mentioned multiple times. Nobody has bothered to expand upon it - that's my point.

Now that we have that on the table, let's iron them out properly. They're very vague in places at the moment.

There seems to be a key section about sliders and their properties - particularly velocity and repeats. Reaching a common standard towards what level of repeating is acceptable for good gameplay is a nice start. Tick rate seems to be another one that needs standardizing as well.

Cancelling fruits is mentioned twice, which is redundant if they are already not allowed. It is also common sense that the map must be able to be fully completed.

Why is the circle size locked at a minimum of 5? What impact does this have on gameplay?
I actually think this is kinda a stupid rule... The owner should pick what ever circle size they want. It doesn't affect gameplay that much. But you should not abuse this. Don't make it circle size 1. But that my opinion. If there no reason to have this rule we should take it out
Notes before a spinner seems to have the same effect as it does under standard - perhaps limiting it to a set number of stanzas before the spinner is allowed to begin? From the last fruit and spinner maybe 2 or maybe 3 dash thingy?(sorry not a mapper so idk X_X just expressing my opinion

Difficulty spread is particularly important for the special game-modes. Taiko is dominated almost exclusively by custom-made high difficulty maps, and I do not want to see this happen for CtB as well. CtB only mapsets should follow the standard spread rules laid out for osu!standard - single CtB difficulties in an osu!standard mapset do not need to follow this.

That list is too sparse and imprecise in its current state. That is why I have repeatedly suggested that the CtB community come together and discuss it properly before we go ahead with this.

thats all i can say for now unless i want to test stuff out xD
Also i can't think anything eles to add to that guideline.
All you saying if we make it more with detail it would be good or are you saying we need to add more stuff?

POSSIBLE CTB GUIDELINES


I vote shiirn rewrite rules, post it in a new thread, then we discuss each rule individually like we are doing in taiko. This discussion is too long.

Ephemeral wrote:

That list is too sparse and imprecise in its current state. That is why I have repeatedly suggested that the CtB community come together and discuss it properly before we go ahead with this.

Seems CTB diff are ready to be rankable, only need to clearify some of the rules.
So, I will try to point out some of the issues that needs to be clear define.

rule wrote:

POSSIBLE CTB GUIDELINES

•Skinned elements of CTB specific maps must be exact size as in the template folder to keep accuracy of gameplay.
Exactly.

•No "StrangeProgram" style sliders.
http://puu.sh/1dEA
This slider is at 215 bpm with a 2x section and a slider velocity of 2.6
These style sliders are impossible to hit.
Here, I think we need to define which kind of sliders is so called "strangeprogram" style sliders. Picture is not enough evidence here.

As my point of view, reason of these kind of slider appears is we use too high bpm and high slider velocity, result in the start note and the
end note of these slider becoming a bug jump.

So about these point , I will rephrase like this:
Check out the beginning postion and the endding postion of the longest path of the slider. If equivalent 2 note placing these 2 postion will result in a bug jump, these slider will porbably not be rankable.

•If you are mapping a fast song or using a fast slider velocity (the slider velocity can generally apply to a good amount of CTB mapping) limit your amount of double backing sliders from 3 to 4. Don't put a huge distance between the ending of the 1st slider and the beginning of a new double backing slider. http://puu.sh/1dEO This is an example of double backing sliders.
again we need to define how much is a "fast slider velocity".
I forgot where but I know surely that there is a defination of speed of the slider. If I am not wrong, it is the slider velocity*BPM.
If that is that case, Based on my testing map, I would like to limit this factor to 500.
That means, if your BPM* slider velocity is greater than 500, you will not suggest to put the "double backing sliders" parttern which introduced above.
(for the data I think we need to double check with mm201(I think he is the expert for this lol)

•If you have a really fast slider velocity, it is suggested that you do not use a tick rate of 4. Using a tick rate 4 with a fast slider velocity makes it so much more easier to combo break. (Try making a hard fun map, not one that makes the player mad)
Exactly
•Something you should not do is use 2x sliders that kick back at a very fast pace. (Play Banned Forever mapped by Blue Dragon for an example)
This creates more pain then it does fun and not only that, they are incredibly easy to mess up on.
Exactly, but I still think we need to define "how fast is fast".

These above 4 point is all about sliders. So I think it is better summerize it together.

•Hyperdash fruits should not be abused. Abusing these could make a CTB map un-fun. So use these with care please.
This is the most important rule. I think we need to hightlight this among the rule.

•The authentic approach rate to match EZ2CATCH is AR8 however if your SONG fits AR9, use AR9 if you would like. Use it with care.
Here, Drafura's idea is great. Using BPMs to manage the Approaching rate is the best way I think we can do it.
(sorry I forget the details.. )
But I think there is still some exceptions...
•No hyper dash cancelling fruits.
This point is useless becuse next point we already introducing this.
•Map must be FCable.
EX: No hyper dash cancelling fruits. Those make it impossible to make it to the next fruit thus breaking the combo.
For this point, I think we need to well define what is a hyper dash cancelling fruit.

Defination for Hyper dash cancelling fruit(bug jump)

The bug jump means you should use one side edge to catch the first fruit and another side edge to catch the second.
Which is there is a hyperdash jump, but when you put a note in the middle of the jump, there is a high possibility makes the hyper dash back to normal jump.
Belows are the explaination in detail.
Think about this kind of scenario:

A◎B______________C◎D______________E◎F
A◎B______________C◎D______________E◎F
A◎B______________C◎D______________E◎F

ABCDEF represents the possible place of the plate, and ◎ represents note.

Then lets go to the scenario above. There are two limit jumps in the scenario, to catch the first two, u should be at B point and use the left edge to catch the first, and then hold the dash all the time, and u are just be able to reach C and catch the second one. But you should be at D when u catch the second one as the prerequisites to catch third one, so the third one must be missed if u catch the first two.

here is a possible scenario I made:

referance:http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39866&p=582441#p582441

•The smallest circle size allowed is a circle size of 5. Anything smaller should not be used.
Exactly.
Reason: when people playing with a low resolution, extremely small circle size will cause people's eyes goes mad.

•All horizontal sliders must be 100% hittable
Useless point, which already state above.

•No sliders that are so far to the left or right that Ryuuta can't catch them. EX http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/96078
I'd like to rephrase:
No note or droplet out of the playing area.

•No fruits that start directly on a spinner. Raining spinner fruits are easy to confused with normal fruits.
I'd like to rephrase: the minimum distance between a note and a spinner is 1/3(including Note+ spinner and spinner+note). smaller distance will cause fruit hidden inside the spinner confusing players.

•Comboing is different in CTB so when using sliders with slider ends. In CTB, slider ends count as 2 fruits (or more if you are using a kickback slider) on a plate so count your combos wisely and don't make them super huge.
I am not sure about this point.
So far as I know, the reason why the score difference between a standard diff and a CTB diff is that big is

For standard, the end of the slider is count in as a combo, but not count in combo bonus score. That means, no matter how high a combo you achieve, the end of the slider you can only get 300 score. if you fail to get the "note" in the end of the slider, the previous note will count as a "100" and you failed to get the combo for the end of the slider.
But CTB is different. Because the slider here is treat as a note, so both beginning and ending note of the slider get combo bonns score.

So my point is, the combo difference between standard diff and ctb diff is only because of spinner in ctb dont count in as combo.

•If you have more than 1 CTB difficulty (say 2-3) please make sure it has a decent spread such as NH, ENH, NHI (etc)
Exactly true.

Seems a little bit long... But I tried to get it as formal as possible...So....Forgiven me...TAT
Hope I can help for the guideline.

I see. So it's possible to individually make the jump from the blue apple to the orange, and the orange to the pear, due to the pan width, but it's not possible to make both of them consecutively.

The hyperdash detection algorithm is still too naive. Hopefully this diagram will illustrate some of the complexities:
Note how at the 3rd to 5th fruits, the assumption that just making it to the edge of a fruit fails.

Now, see what happens when I move one fruit:
The effect on the solution lasts for the next three fruits!

Okay about the SV wich is one of the big question without answers here, I've made some tests wich can be used as inspiration to make a clear rule about what should be or not rankable here are the results :


I used the same sentences and a difficulty notation to make it more readable. But as the bpm increase the timing gets a bit harder for the same notation i've put between them. Hope this will be helpfull.

Oh and I approve Shiirn to rewrite the rule as they had to be writen.

About the rules :
- I think CS should be like in standard cause the "resolution of the screen" is the same problem. So if it's acceptable in standard why not in CtB ?
- For the hyperdashes, this is useless to say "we have to highlight this rule.." No we have to define what's an hyperdash abuse : I see 2 factor here Readablity and Timing. Typically the difficulty of hypers are on the changing directions ones so :
Timing : Limit the 1/4 hyper with direction change to 1, 2, 3 or 4 to a map (depending on the total play lenght) and limit them too to 1 or 2 per patterns.
Readability : Hyperdash spam with total non sense direction change between what you have to play and how the music sounds or if after an hyper the pattern is very tricky to read, it could be banned cause you can't keep a real good focus on what you're doing(<-this has to be developped)

Rules to add maybe :
- No Hyperdashed sliders this is ugly and can be totally absurd to play.

I wish hyperdash did not account for circle size whatsoever. Ryuuta should be a point.

Drafura wrote:

About the rules : I think CS should be like in standard cause the "resolution of the screen" is the same problem. So if it's acceptable in standard why not in CtB ?

I used to think so, until 1 day my tengoku diff being hated by a lot of CTB player.
Actually what I think is, when you using smaller CS, the AR you use, and the pattern you can think about is very limted, because of "playability".
Think of this map:KOTOKO- agony.
Can you image these kind of CS with hyperdashs?

ziin wrote:

I wish hyperdash did not account for circle size whatsoever. Ryuuta should be a point.

Well... Unfortunetely, yes. It does account for CS.
you can see some of the maps with HR, normal jump becomes Hyperdash.

Catch the Beat Rankability Rules and Guidelines


Do note that personal issues such as perceived difficulty do not belong in rules or guidelines, but rather belong in a modder's mind and accrued experience. As such, I'm not putting them in there unless they're extremely clear (1/8 hyperjumps might make it)

ZHSteven wrote:

Drafura wrote:

About the rules : I think CS should be like in standard cause the "resolution of the screen" is the same problem. So if it's acceptable in standard why not in CtB ?

I used to think so, until 1 day my tengoku diff being hated by a lot of CTB player.
Actually what I think is, when you using smaller CS, the AR you use, and the pattern you can think about is very limted, because of "playability".
Think of this map:KOTOKO- agony.
Can you image these kind of CS with hyperdashs?

I don't see hyperdashes as a real difficulty in a map. They are way easier for most players than a very big bad jump, look at this map : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18826 the problem aren't the hypers at all...

Well this is not the point here so : I think a mapper choosing a CS7 have to deal with it and it's gonna be very hard to map to get a fun map and the mods on the patterns/AR he use for his map are going to be very restrictive. So i don't think it's a problem.

CS5 could be a guideline but i don't see any reason to add it as a rule.

Edit : thank you Shiirn.

Additionnal rules:

1. No two hitobjects on the same tick.
2. No silent hitsounds or silenced beats.

And that's all I remember from the other thread.

I considered those the same technical requirements as standard, but i'll throw them in.

What I mean is, a hyperdash jump with a very small circle size is just not good at all...Even it is make for a map to be easier.
These hyperdashes also need to be very accurate control about the plate.
I will give the map here: Tengoku to jigoku
Tengoku diff.
Here I use smaller AR, and with this kind of AR, hyperdashes seems not fit it very well..

Edit: Oh and also, add these guideline:

Spinners cannot be too long, because it will cause the fruit overflow.

You can include a section with useful patterns (which would be a pain in Standard, but nice in CTB).

I've mentioned 2-3 in the past pages of the guidelines thread. I'll quote them if it's necessary.

That falls under the clause at the very end of the post. It's not something that should be part of a rule or guideline, but it'd be useful to have around (i.e. similar to RJ's HOW TO MAKE PRETTY SLIDERS guide)

ZHSteven wrote:

What I mean is, a hyperdash jump with a very small circle size is just not good at all...Even it is make for a map to be easier.
These hyperdashes also need to be very accurate control about the plate.
I will give the map here: Tengoku to jigoku
Tengoku diff.
Here I use smaller AR, and with this kind of AR, hyperdashes seems not fit it very well..

Edit: Oh and also, add these guideline:

Spinners cannot be too long, because it will cause the fruit overflow.

My problem with this map isn't at all the two hyperdashes you used on it *.* clearly... But I understand what you mean about general difficulty of a CS7 map. I'm just saying if a mapper use it he have to adapt the difficulty to the CS.

Ok then, I will agree to add it into a guildeline.
When we have problems in the future, we still have chance to fix it into a rule right?

ZHSteven wrote:

Ok then, I will agree to add it into a guildeline.
When we have problems in the future, we still have chance to fix it into a rule right?

lol, Yes as in standard the rules can certainly evolves after being approved. (And personnally I don't think anyone is going to try to make a map with CS7 but who knows ?)

Drafura wrote:

ZHSteven wrote:

Ok then, I will agree to add it into a guildeline.
When we have problems in the future, we still have chance to fix it into a rule right?

lol, Yes as in standard the rules can certainly evolves after being approved. (And personnally I don't think anyone is going to try to make a map with CS7 but who knows ?)

For a small Circle Size experience, players can use HardRock instead of CS7.

Shiirn wrote:

Catch the Beat Rankability Rules and Guidelines

Rules

1. Your map must follow the same basic technical requirements of other modes, that is, properly timed, must contain a background, lead-in, preview point, etc.
   not necessary. This is obvious. We can modify the rules to say "this includes all modes of play".
2. No two hit objects can be on the same tick. This includes slider ends.
   see above
3. All hit objects must be audible and not be silenced. Ticks can be softened, but not silenced.
4. Any skinned elements specifically changed for CtB must be the same size as the template skin and must follow the same rules of sense as Standard. Example.
5. You must avoid all current bugs within the hyperfruit system to keep your map passable. These will be gone over later on, below.
   this needs its own special section. "these will be gone over later on, below" is bad form, and should be in a new "hyperfruit related" rule section. A simple "your map must be theoretically SSable" will suffice as a rule, and modding can catch things that are impossible.
6. No notes be placed directly on, during, or immediately after a spinner. A fruit will be indistinguishable from the spinner fruit if there is a 1/3 or less distance between the end of the spinner and the fruit, so there is a 1/2 minimum.
   No notes may be placed less than 1/2 beat from any part of a spinner. Fruits closer than this or during are indistinguishable from the spinner fruits.
7. Your map must theoretically be SSable. This generally means you must be able to catch absolutely all fruits, including droplets.
   great minds...
8. The minimum circle size allowed is 5. Any smaller causes large amounts of frustration due to the linear decrease in fruit size between circle levels, meaning that fruit catching will become exponentially more frustrating.
   Guideline, if it needs to be said at all. in standard, it's the same way (in fact there is no rule/guideline for this). Modders will beat stubborn people senseless if they use CS6+, so this is not needed.

Guidelines

1. The recommended Approach Rate for a catch the beat difficulty of "normal" difficulty (in accordance with Taiko, this is the "insane"-ish level of play, not an actual "normal") is AR8. AR9 can be used for faster paced songs as determined by the mapper, but AR10 should never be used for a below-superinsane level of play.
   again, standard doesn't have anything like this. A recommendation of AR 8 (and the fact that AR 8 is authentic) should be enough. "make the Approach Rate fit the song" can be a rule, and will be certainly fixed in modding. If someone vehemently prefers AR10, they're going to use it, regardless of some "rule". Likewise, lower ARs should be used for easier CTB difficutlies, correct?
2. (Temporary guideline) Bear in mind that CtB difficulties are meant to be fun to play, not a random experimentation with the editor. Make sure your map is fun, even if it's difficult! This comes only with practice. This includes making sure you don't spam 20 hyperdashes in a row - that's not fun, that's exhausting and frustrating.
3. Make sure your combos aren't too long! Bear in mind that sliders count as two fruits on Ryuuta's plate, and that you can't see new combos while in gameplay. A good, general baseline is a maximum of ten (10) fruit for a full combo. This is so that the fruit you catch doesn't block your view!
4. Future guidelines regarding hyperfruits and general combos will go here, as of now this is a good baseline.
   

Current Hyperfruit Issues

• 
  Generally speaking, if you believe that your map might be impossible to clear, please consult a MAT or BAT or another experienced CtB player as to whether your map fits these bugs.

1. Pixeljumps :: A rare bug that involves three fruit in a row being uncatchable. Due to the complexities of how it occurs, it only happens rarely, and is very difficult to explain without getting technical. Consult someone if you think you might have one.
2. In-slider Jumps :: This occurs when the horizontal slider velocity is so high that Ryuuta cannot catch both sides without a hyperfruit, yet the slider is long enough that a droplet appears. Droplets cannot become hyperfruits, and mess with the coding such that no hyperfruits appear. The borderline for this bug seems to be a horizontal velocity of 600BPM (Your map's BPM * Your Slider Velocity, directly horizontal), so beware using overall velocities over 400bpm!

Do note that personal issues such as perceived difficulty do not belong in rules or guidelines, but rather belong in a modder's mind and accrued experience. As such, I'm not putting them in there unless they're extremely clear (1/8 hyperjumps might make it)

Let's try to keep the rules to a minimum and throw out the obvious stuff.

ziin wrote:

Shiirn wrote:

Catch the Beat Rankability Rules and Guidelines

Rules

1. Your map must follow the same basic technical requirements of other modes, that is, properly timed, must contain a background, lead-in, preview point, etc.
   not necessary. This is obvious. We can modify the rules to say "this includes all modes of play".
2. No two hit objects can be on the same tick. This includes slider ends.
   see above
3. All hit objects must be audible and not be silenced. Ticks can be softened, but not silenced.
4. Any skinned elements specifically changed for CtB must be the same size as the template skin and must follow the same rules of sense as Standard. Example.
5. You must avoid all current bugs within the hyperfruit system to keep your map passable. These will be gone over later on, below.
   this needs its own special section. "these will be gone over later on, below" is bad form, and should be in a new "hyperfruit related" rule section. A simple "your map must be theoretically SSable" will suffice as a rule, and modding can catch things that are impossible.
6. No notes be placed directly on, during, or immediately after a spinner. A fruit will be indistinguishable from the spinner fruit if there is a 1/3 or less distance between the end of the spinner and the fruit, so there is a 1/2 minimum.
   No notes may be placed less than 1/2 beat from any part of a spinner. Fruits closer than this or during are indistinguishable from the spinner fruits.
7. Your map must theoretically be SSable. This generally means you must be able to catch absolutely all fruits, including droplets.
   great minds...
8. The minimum circle size allowed is 5. Any smaller causes large amounts of frustration due to the linear decrease in fruit size between circle levels, meaning that fruit catching will become exponentially more frustrating.
   Guideline, if it needs to be said at all. in standard, it's the same way (in fact there is no rule/guideline for this). Modders will beat stubborn people senseless if they use CS6+, so this is not needed.

Guidelines

1. The recommended Approach Rate for a catch the beat difficulty of "normal" difficulty (in accordance with Taiko, this is the "insane"-ish level of play, not an actual "normal") is AR8. AR9 can be used for faster paced songs as determined by the mapper, but AR10 should never be used for a below-superinsane level of play.
   again, standard doesn't have anything like this. A recommendation of AR 8 (and the fact that AR 8 is authentic) should be enough. "make the Approach Rate fit the song" can be a rule, and will be certainly fixed in modding. If someone vehemently prefers AR10, they're going to use it, regardless of some "rule". Likewise, lower ARs should be used for easier CTB difficutlies, correct?
2. (Temporary guideline) Bear in mind that CtB difficulties are meant to be fun to play, not a random experimentation with the editor. Make sure your map is fun, even if it's difficult! This comes only with practice. This includes making sure you don't spam 20 hyperdashes in a row - that's not fun, that's exhausting and frustrating.
3. Make sure your combos aren't too long! Bear in mind that sliders count as two fruits on Ryuuta's plate, and that you can't see new combos while in gameplay. A good, general baseline is a maximum of ten (10) fruit for a full combo. This is so that the fruit you catch doesn't block your view!
4. Future guidelines regarding hyperfruits and general combos will go here, as of now this is a good baseline.
   

Current Hyperfruit Issues

• 
  Generally speaking, if you believe that your map might be impossible to clear, please consult a MAT or BAT or another experienced CtB player as to whether your map fits these bugs.

1. Pixeljumps :: A rare bug that involves three fruit in a row being uncatchable. Due to the complexities of how it occurs, it only happens rarely, and is very difficult to explain without getting technical. Consult someone if you think you might have one.
2. In-slider Jumps :: This occurs when the horizontal slider velocity is so high that Ryuuta cannot catch both sides without a hyperfruit, yet the slider is long enough that a droplet appears. Droplets cannot become hyperfruits, and mess with the coding such that no hyperfruits appear. The borderline for this bug seems to be a horizontal velocity of 600BPM (Your map's BPM * Your Slider Velocity, directly horizontal), so beware using overall velocities over 400bpm!

Do note that personal issues such as perceived difficulty do not belong in rules or guidelines, but rather belong in a modder's mind and accrued experience. As such, I'm not putting them in there unless they're extremely clear (1/8 hyperjumps might make it)

Let's try to keep the rules to a minimum and throw out the obvious stuff.

i will try to show hyperfruits issures later with photos included

I just think that we can solve all other 'rules' before enter in those and get in a huge and mass discussion of hyperfruits

We've been talking in #videogames about the max allowed rankable score, and we agree that it should be around 30-32 million points.

Everything over there would be for approval, instead of ranking.

if we were able to define catcher speed in auto we should know which maps are rankeable
I'm working on some hyperdash + hyperspeed + hyperfruit thinks... maybe in my next post i'll have a nice info to show
which kind of they are not rankeable or maybe extremly imposible or at least questionable

still working...



here some cases of hyspeed fruit spam
*1 its a huge stress hightspeed dash couse you need to stop in each one les than a second to catch the other
eg. lets start on right fruit u highspeed dash to the position center one you wait less than a sec u catch it then move it in less than a second to the other one wait less than a sec.... i mean you can't only full dash between sides you will fail
*2 its an slow-fast-slow jump but with diferent distances between them thats easyer but you need to full concentrate to hit those three hyperfruits btw the song its 1/2 couse was to hard - in other words in less than 5 sec you need to coordinate your fingers to do 4 movements + 4 speeds and coordinate that in ur mind before those 5 seconds
thats a frustrating think
*3 lets call that a tic-tac or side-side or w/e ... thats a 'nice' hyperdash combo but i want to take about those jumps in less than the full side ... by that I mean if this tic-tac was in the center will be x10 times harder couse a little wrong move will destroy the 'line' for catch the other fruits
*4 thats simply unranked imo you need to full dash + full concentrate + be perfect in such middle tic-tac pattern with a tick in the middle



* that one is a full dash side-side + tic-tacs + ticks + middle combo its suposed to be easy but its an frustrating pattern, also in so less time it increasses the frustration

-----------------

-maybe i would say if the bpm its over 180 (maybe 170 couse double 180 its more than 260 but the high ranks and pros should be able to finish) BPM you should be 1/4

-and iff its lower should be freely to use 1/8

-and the slider part just follows the same rules of stardard and that one ^ and all sliders should be rankeable and SSable

with that rule of 30-32mil points max and the 'normal' or 'standard' rules should be this fit and be good to start :O??

hitmefast wrote:

with that rule of 30-32mil points max and the 'normal' or 'standard' rules should be this fit and be good to start :O??

For me, could be 28mil, but well, the community has been spoken :3

No notes maybe placed closer than 1/2 to a spinner (1/2 is acceptable). This is because fruits are largely indistinguishable from spinner fruits when too close together.

This is better as a guideline, as:
1) If it stay or not, it's song-dependant
2) It depend on velocity, so "1/2" is really relative. You can use it and have it to be readable depending on SV and BPM

EDIT: It'll be better worded if you say "if it come too fast", not after 1/2, as:
saying 1/2 it's like not including low-BPM songs, and in those cases you'll use an ms limit...
But after that it depend on the SV, so it can even vary and so become strangely interpretable...

iMercurial wrote:

hitmefast wrote:

with that rule of 30-32mil points max and the 'normal' or 'standard' rules should be this fit and be good to start :O??

For me, could be 28mil, but well, the community has been spoken :3

maybe we can speak about that more, but will be nice a reason why should be 28mil and not 30-32mil?? (which i consider correct)

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

No notes maybe placed closer than 1/2 to a spinner (1/2 is acceptable). This is because fruits are largely indistinguishable from spinner fruits when too close together.

This is better as a guideline, as:
1) If it stay or not, it's song-dependant
2) It depend on velocity, so "1/2" is really relative. You can use it and have it to be readable depending on SV and BPM

EDIT: It'll be better worded if you say "if it come too fast", not after 1/2, as:
saying 1/2 it's like not including low-BPM songs, and in those cases you'll use an ms limit...
But after that it depend on the SV, so it can even vary and so become strangely interpretable...

Oh! wait *looks profile lvl 8 ctb* aw...
how do you know that?? 1/2 for a fruit should fit perfect also with a 1/3 'clearly' its also good but maybe will cause some confusions

Catch the Beat Rankability Rules and Guidelines


all credits to Shiirn.

maybe should this fit enought? the size of the catcher doesn't really matter it will be less funny to play but its ok
the skin of the ctb its not a rule we are debating for. anyway you can't avoid custom skins couse they are 1px little or the ticks looks like a Touhou character so you are free
the sliders are not a current huge problem couse horizontal sliders 'ranked in standard' mode should fit 100% in ctb mode (following those rules)
sry for multipost it was to clarificy the rules with the working hyperthings

Well, I asked Inamaru if he wanted to say something. And profoundly analysed the reasons.
1/2 depends from other factor, the BPM and the AR, so it's pretty unuseful as a guideline.
There are 1/4 streams to anyway (Older Style) and so that rule does not fit as rule.

Anyway, there's about 1/3 of playfield with 204 BPM + AR10 and OD10


AR8 OD7


AR6 OD5 - still visible, even if less, but you aren't suggesting that AR

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

Well, I asked Inamaru if he wanted to say something. And profoundly analysed the reasons.
1/2 depends from other factor, the BPM and the AR, so it's pretty unuseful as a guideline.
There are 1/4 streams to anyway (Older Style) and so that rule does not fit as rule.

Anyway, there's about 1/3 of playfield with 204 BPM + AR10 and OD10

SPOILER

AR8 OD7

SPOILER

AR6 OD5 - still visible, even if less, but you aren't suggesting that AR

SPOILER

here's mine

white-white should fit (all setings default (5))
anyway the white-red still good but a bit confusing less than that its just invisible

for the setup options i should say iff you put more AR take care about the distance and maybe larger that until its similat to white-white/white-red image

hitmefast wrote:

Catch the Beat Rankability Rules and Guidelines

Current Hyperfruit Mapping rules

1. Maps over 180BPM's avoid the 1/8 with this means each maps lower than 180BPM's can be maped using an 1/8 to evade all the stuff of hyperfruits. Keep in mind that maps using over 180BPM's in 1/8 they will become Approbal and not ranked, for beeing a non-enjoyable map. (you can always ask a BAT or MAT for check up ur map for that rule)

What the hell means that, I'm totally disagree.

eldnl wrote:

hitmefast wrote:

Catch the Beat Rankability Rules and Guidelines

Current Hyperfruit Mapping rules

1. Maps over 180BPM's avoid the 1/8 with this means each maps lower than 180BPM's can be maped using an 1/8 to evade all the stuff of hyperfruits. Keep in mind that maps using over 180BPM's in 1/8 they will become Approbal and not ranked, for beeing a non-enjoyable map. (you can always ask a BAT or MAT for check up ur map for that rule)

What the hell means that, I'm totally disagree.

you can be disagree with somthing you don't understand... but yes i'm not totally agree with it but at least i've tryed to find one posible solution. did u?

hitmefast wrote:

you can be disagree with somthing you don't understand... but yes i'm not totally agree with it but at least i've tryed to find one posible solution. did u?

I'm disagree if it means what I think. But please explain.

eldnl wrote:

hitmefast wrote:

you can be disagree with somthing you don't understand... but yes i'm not totally agree with it but at least i've tryed to find one posible solution. did u?

I'm disagree if it means what I think. But please explain.

I'm just trying to avoid those huge spam hyperdashes or those hyperfruits frustrating combos or imposibles ones...

with that rule i'm trying to skip that things couse those are the reason for ctb maps don't been rankeable

i like to see hyperspeed dashes and huge combos of thousand fruits also in 1/8 some of them over 200 bpm
but they anothers you just can't without make the song 10000 times or 1 beeing perfect

i'm not saying its avoid couse in the rules over them said that huge combos of hyperdashes and spacing
are not fun and should be not going to be rankable, also there's another thing in there i just say you can just broke that rule calling a MAT or a BAT or an experienced player to vote ur map its SSable and fun to play

hope you understand me ^^




rules edited a bit more. ^ check the post

I've talked with peppy, he wants you guys to start uploading CTB maps to prove him that it's hard to get an osu-ctb transition and thus that CTB specific difficulties are needed, when he can see that, he will admit CTB specific difficulties as rankable.

Good Luck CTB mappers!

ok here's one


also ZHSteven has a bunch doesn't he?

Shiirn wrote:

ok here's one


also ZHSteven has a bunch doesn't he?

yes? i'm searching another player who has whole user page full of ctb maps... somthing with M...

Keep them coming!

arien666:

1. Mix Speaker's,Inc. - Shiny tale (TV Size) [Urane's Catch Expert] - (non-BSS) Modded by ZHSteven, Deif, Drafura.

CLSW:

1. Daisuke Achiwa - BASARA [CLSWTB Extra] - Modded by Deif, ZHSteven, Odaril, Drafura.

Drafura:

1. Sound Horizon - Arbelge no Tatakai [Drafura's CtB Insane] - Modded by Deif, ZHSteven, iMercurial, KuraiPettan.

Foreverends:

1. 07th Expansion - miragecoordinator [CTB] - (unfinished map) Modded by ZHSteven.

Odaril:

1. Yoshioka Aika - Izayoi Namida [CtB Insane] - (unfinished map, non-BSS) Modded by ZHSteven, Deif.

Valetine:

1. Zektbach - Raison d'etre [Vale's CTB] - Modded by eldnl.

ZHSteven:

1. DJ YOSHITAKA - Evans [Catch the Beat] - Modded by Drafura, Deif.
2. XL Project - THE DAMNED STALKERS [Steven's ctb] - Modded by Deif, Drafura.
3. Sound Horizon - Arbelge no Tatakai [Steven's easy ctb] - Modded by Drafura.

taken of helping modding ctb assistance

CTB maps I collected so far, Credits go to those who're the creator of each map. (They're all not submitted)

Pm me for new releases or updates. I'll update them here too.

Verdi Maps:

http://puu.sh/eyjH Shounen Radio - Neu Verdi's CTB

http://puu.sh/dqtt Various Artists Disconnected Hardcore [CTB]

http://puu.sh/dqqB SYNC.ARTS - Sword of Valiant Verdi CTB Mix

http://puu.sh/dqpf Shiraishi - Shinsekai Verdi's CTB

http://puu.sh/dqnS IOSYS Tyoujin Hijiri no Air Muscle CTB DIFF

http://puu.sh/dqly O-Life Japan - Yakujinsama no Couple Dance Verdi's CTB

http://puu.sh/dqjg Renard - Banned forever Verdi's CTB Mix

http://puu.sh/dqiy Hatsune Miku - Ohigan Fuzzyclap Verdi's CTB

http://puu.sh/dqi4 DJ Fresh - Gold Dust Verdi's Jump CTB

Louis Cyphre Maps:

http://puu.sh/dqwM Demetori - Solar Sect of mystic Wisdom ~ Nuclear Fusion CTB Fusion

http://puu.sh/dqwe Tune Up! - Ravers Fantasy (Speed Mix) Tag4 [Map for every mod]

http://puu.sh/dqhI Trolis Typhre - Troll Opera Trollothon [Map for every mod] DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT A PASS HERE!

Kuzino Maps:

http://puu.sh/dqxc L.E.D. - THE LAST STRIKER 2Q

http://puu.sh/dqvK SUPER STAR-MITSURU - - All my turn 8Q

http://puu.sh/dqvx Iconoclasm - perditus paradius 4Q

http://puu.sh/dqvb Harada Hitomi - Haruiro 1Q

http://puu.sh/dqkN PRASTIK DANCEFLOOR - Session 9 - Chronicles 4Q

http://puu.sh/dqnn Nekomata Master- Silence 2Q

CLSW Maps:

http://puu.sh/dqpM Shounen Radio - Neu Soft CTB

http://puu.sh/dqp1 With a Dance Number CTB Dance of the Death

http://puu.sh/dqoj Inspector K Disconnected Hardcore (ClanBlaster Remix)

http://puu.sh/eykB SYNC.ARTS - HEART CHAIN (3L) Extend ~ Ash Hourai Victim CLSWTB Extra

http://puu.sh/eyp4 CCNN - Legacy of Hatred

http://puu.sh/eyrL Korpiklaani - Vodka CLSWTB Another (Yeah it's vodka!)

http://puu.sh/eysB Nico Nico Douga (Chorus) - World's End Dancehall

http://puu.sh/eysR Zeami feat. Ayane - Senpuu no Mai (CS ver.) CLSW's CTB Jump Compilation

http://puu.sh/eyxs Touhou (IOSYS) - RE: Usatei

katsek Maps:

http://puu.sh/erbH Rythmus - JEBE katsek


taken of : DontBrownieMir

Oops. Some shitty maps on there..

Almost stuffs(Especially mine and Louis has) aren't rankable.

Modded maps are the most accurate cause they aren't like the 90% other diff presented in the second post. They are likely what should be acceptable for ranking (maybe some still a bit hard).

About hyperdashes1/8 i totally disagree if they are (or not) a changing direction dash. Even 1/4 are a big question atm if it does more than 2 consecutive direction changes.

(Note that when i talk about timing here i'm talking about the leniency to catch a fruit. Not the distance snap or something else...)

Then i wanna remember to some people here how the hyperdash works : you get the fruit and dash to the other one then you have 95% chances to get the next fruit. 5% chances are about a really terrible timing.
Then for a big non hyper jump : you do the same thing but you have 5% chance to catch it wich represent your chance of having the good timing.

Hyperdashes are technically easier than big jumps cause you'll need less timing.

For hyperdash spamming we have the same issue for both (hypers and normals jumps) if you have a lot of consecutive hypers and you turn them to big jumps you will not solve the problem at all. In fact it could be really worst.

The only thing wich can make the hyper harder than a big jump to my eyes is the readability factor, as the hypers can be very far of the next pattern. You'll catch the hyperdash but you could get lost for the next pattern if you wasn't enough concentrated/accurate. (Note that this is skill related and something can be acceptable for one person and not for other one).

My conclusion about this, i think all jumps with a bigger timing than a hyperjump are a sort of a bug, BUT with a reasonable timing they can be pretty cool to play and aren't to be banned. So as the hypers are to be used very carefully the big jumps have too I hope this is clear in all mind.

Forgot to mention, make sure your maps are good as well. (Haven't checked them but from some reactions, just in case)

Drafura wrote:

The only thing wich can make the hyper harder than a big jump to my eyes is the readability factor, as the hypers can be very far of the next pattern. You'll catch the hyperdash but you could get lost for the next pattern if you wasn't enough concentrated/accurate. (Note that this is skill related and something can be acceptable for one person and not for other one).

My conclusion about this, i think all jumps with a bigger timing than a hyperjump are a sort of a bug, BUT with a reasonable timing they can be pretty cool to play and aren't to be banned. So as the hypers are to be used very carefully the big jumps have too I hope this is clear in all mind.

totally agree. and thats what i've tryed to say too

i just put some of them couse no one saws they are maps of ctb but they actually a lot
sry for those who aren't rankeable i just linked them in a nice idea

Sakura Hana wrote:

I've talked with peppy, he wants you guys to start uploading CTB maps to prove him that it's hard to get an osu-ctb transition and thus that CTB specific difficulties are needed, when he can see that, he will admit CTB specific difficulties as rankable.

Good Luck CTB mappers!

Thanks for your efforts~

I think everything is listed in the modding queue by Deif.

Best example:

Yoshioka Aika - Izayoi Namida [CtB Insane]

This is a good example of showing that easy CTB diff cannot convert well from standard.
We can see there is a lot of unexpected spacing change which plays welll in CTB but stupid in standard.

About my map, I will choose
XL Project - THE DAMNED STALKERS [Steven's ctb]
This one for an example.

We know that long stream is a very popular in standard mapping, and it is hard to play.
But if you convert it into CTB, it will become something stupid(just stand at a fixed place).
Streamming in CTB contains different spacing will makes the map much more enjoyable, which is not allowed in standard.

hitmefast wrote:

CTB maps I collected so far, Credits go to those who're the creator of each map. (They're all not submitted)

......

taken of : DontBrownieMir

Please note that some of the CTB map in this list is JUST FOR FUN and for SURVIVAL, I am pretty sure that some of them are unrankable.

Too lazy to search, but why is there an CTB-only diff in the first place?

Haseo wrote:

Too lazy to search, but why is there an CTB-only diff in the first place?

... Why not ? There's Taiko-only diff, so....

And Standards diffs to be fun in CtB and/or edible as Insanes should be much screwed up. As CtB play in an horizontal line, if you make an Insane (or even an Extra) using vertical Jumps, it will be easy as hell. And yet there are some patterns that aren't edible in Standard, but are in CtB.

Anyway, for the 1/2 thing: you're even suggesting to use a medium-high AR setting, and with AR 5 it's a "Maybe"(borderline case) and' it's still readable because of the slowness of the fruits descending. So i would change from the precise 1/2 that don't work in 90% of cases ( < 200 BPM with AR > 5 , <300 with AR > 7, and that's almost all cases , as an Easy diff won't have that type of notes too ) in a rules with "if it come too fast"

Drafura wrote:

Haseo wrote:

Too lazy to search, but why is there an CTB-only diff in the first place?

... Why not ? There's Taiko-only diff, so....

Taiko is different.

Haseo wrote:

Too lazy to search, but why is there an CTB-only diff in the first place?

to test play ctb

Haseo wrote:

Drafura wrote:

... Why not ? There's Taiko-only diff, so....

Taiko is different.

Why?
The "Standard convert to CtB nicely" doesn't stand up anymore.

Haseo wrote:

Taiko is different.

ctb is different too.

Just FYI, CTB converts to standard nicely with a little bit of effort put into the Y axis.

Try to convert this... Remember it's 1/4

Patterns like the one Drafura posted aren't easily usable on Standard, but are on CtB

ziin wrote:

Because accelerated spacing on jump streams is totally reasonable

This spacing is easy on CtB, not in standard.