TheVileOne wrote:
Well my research for ranked maps was that most high scoring ranked insane maps have top scores of 20-21 million with mods. The highest had a 900 plus combo in CTB. I don't think it gets much higher than 22 million ranked on standard. But that's how I saw it. I'm all for 24-26 million max without mods on CTB. I just came up with that value on what I saw. (CTB maps are practically guaranteed to be beaten with some form of mod, so adding a mod to the mix at this cap would jack the score up.)
Have you read this thread before posting in ? Do you know why the score is different in CTB and in Standard? It can be really different from maps, and how it's mapped. Example:
NH22 - Corrosion 15M SS in standard, 25M in CTB SS
Now, here's another example:
(Dj SASA Remix) Tattoo Colour - Cinderella Orion's Prince Diff. Standard: 10.5M SS. CTB : 12M.
The differences we have here is because of the mapping itself : Orion's Prince diff doesn't have a lot of sliders (536 circles, 76 sliders). NH22's maps have 369 circles, and 260 sliders. Since the sliders are not counted the same way in CTB, they give more more more points. This results in higher score for CTB when you have a map with a lot of sliders. If you want more precision about this, please read the thread.
The score limit is fine. Since it varies from standard map on how the score is calculated, you can't say "hey, it gives about "xx" score in standard, so it should be lower in CTB.
TheVileOne wrote:
I have one concern though. If these maps are tailored for CTB play, and they allow for such extreme scoring, then wouldn't mappers have to go out of their way difficulty-wise to justify the scoring. It will be like tag difficulties in standard only for CTB, because the top CTB players have no problem getting 20 million scores off of insane currently with hidden. Are CTB difficulties only going to be made as a challenge to CTB players or are they just going to streamline the transitions so that they look more conformal in a CTB setting? If CTB maps do plan to streamline it does the extra readibility that it creates make it easier to play than a potential lesser scoring lunatic mode? I don't know really at all what I'm talking about, as I do not know what's considered difficult compared to next to impossible in a CTB setting that doesn't require hyperfruits notes. I just see a lot of effort to prevent hyperfruit spam and nothing to ensure difficult beyond using hyperfruits.
What you're saying here is kind of weird, for someone who have been on this game for two years. In standard, the top 40 is usually full with HD too... and no one evers complain about that. It's the same on CTB. Some maps allow mod, others don't. And you know, to ensure difficulty, there's a modding queue dedicated to CTB mappers. They can post their maps in, and they will be modded by other CTB players. I'm pretty sure everyone have differents view on how hard maps should be and such, but, I think it will be hard to set a standard until their is enough maps to set those standard.
TheVileOne wrote:
Really what I want to avoid is maps just spamming fruits everywhere, because the song allows it. If the song shouldn't support 24 million scores and the CTB scores of the hardest difficulty shows that, then why should we allow a CTB diff that far outscores the other diffs in that category?
I think that excessive spam of beats in CTB needs to be managed right off the bat. There needs to be a rule that prevents people from adding fruits for every single note in a song, because it can be abused. If we adopt the 4 million rule, it would curtail efforts to over place beats in CTB.
I know there's not really enough CTB mappers for this to truly be an issue, but in the long run I think it's necessary. It could even be strongly advised, because if it isn't we can't tell people their CTB mode is too easy to score X amount of points, or that their CTB map is overspamming notes, because the max score will be set so high that it would allow any number of 1/4th notes to be added without reaching the max score.
Huh well, what ?... You know, the general rules for mapping applies to CTB diff as well. If it's not overmapped, then, why on earth shouldn't we map it? Overmapping is not allowed in both standard and taiko, what makes you think that CTB mappers are going to overmap all their maps?
TheVileOne wrote:
If I do not have legitimate concerns in this matter, please tell me why I don't need to worry about these things. I would want standards for allowance to be absolutely perfect before they get included, because anything we overlook at this stage could become a problem in the future. If someone could link a ranked example of the highest scoring ranked CTB score with/without mods.
Next state how much beyond that should a map really go, and how likely a CTB map could be made that has a score in that range. How likely will crazy maps have scores like that? (30 million scores really set unreasonable distances between lesser skilled CTB players and pro CTB players. ) Pro players get 20-30 million while non pros get 3-12 million. Who's ranking up faster?
I think you need more experience in CTB to judge (especially when you've obviously not read the whole thread).
You concerns about scores between skilled players, and people still learning the CTB are just ... Seriously, in both standard or CTB, people with more skills are going to rank faster. Yep. That's the point of learning how to play, making better scores on maps and such. Atm, people with low skills are going to make 3-12 millions on map, and people with great are going to play them with mods. Can you explain how it's different from standard? Random player will probably fail on some maps, while top 200 players are going to FC it with HD+HR... That's how people learn, how people gains skills.