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In Mourning - Colossus

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AyanokoRin
get mv2 reee

  1. first of all, notice how ctrl + a doesnt cover the entirety of the grid, but rather a kind of round-cornered rectangle ; i didnt notice difficulties with moving around the playfield, but keep in mind to use the entirety of the space thats given to you when mapping because it can give you even more liberty regarding object placement

  2. 00:50:434 (1,2) - 2 doesnt follow implied slider flow unlike the other iterations of this rhythm, meaning that the flow logic set up throughout the phrase should place it here. thats of course blatently offscreen, so i suggest playing around with 00:50:434 (1) - to find a workaround ( and at the same time avoid the overlap with 00:48:272 (1,1) - since you seem to be preferring perfect stacks when it comes to sliders )

  3. 01:03:677 (2,5) - again, this overlap/closeness contradicts the cleaner aesthetics of its context, and there surely is the space to move it slightly upwards

  4. 05:56:109 (3) - this particular circles aesthetics stand out because the overlap with 05:55:568 (2) - is different from your usual ones ( they are closer to the sliderend theyre overlapped with in the other cases ) ; that is fine in itself, but it becomes a problem at 05:58:676 (3) - when the same overlap is used with an entirely different rhythm since the player will have associated it with a 1/2 gap instead of a 3/2 one

  5. 05:56:649 (1,3) - ew overlap

stream seems fine to me except maybe the section at 09:05:023 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - cause chain 5 note streams kill stamina due to demanding a lot of finger control on top of the aim, also would probably turn 09:12:050 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - into 4 kicksliders since having the longest stream where the guitar isnt at its highest pitch seems contradictory of the intensity ( rhythmically fine because of the drum kicks as well )

Good luck !
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry

AyanokoRin wrote:

get mv2 reee I don't even know how to get mv2 for older maps LUL. That being said I like mv1 anyways, so you just have to bear with it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  1. first of all, notice how ctrl + a doesnt cover the entirety of the grid, but rather a kind of round-cornered rectangle ; i didnt notice difficulties with moving around the playfield, but keep in mind to use the entirety of the space thats given to you when mapping because it can give you even more liberty regarding object placement First of all, after skimming through few ranked maps for reference, this is actually better than fairly many. It's pretty much almost all the way used anyways. Actually, imho, using it all the way to the corners just for the sake of using it will more likely create those "difficulties with moving around the playfield" lol. I don't see any poin in this. You shouldn't force the usage of full playfield on mapping but rather comment if the mapper didn't naturally use most of it but rather stuffed his map to specific parts.

  2. 00:50:434 (1,2) - 2 doesnt follow implied slider flow unlike the other iterations of this rhythm, meaning that the flow logic set up throughout the phrase should place it here. thats of course blatently offscreen, so i suggest playing around with 00:50:434 (1) - to find a workaround ( and at the same time avoid the overlap with 00:48:272 (1,1) - since you seem to be preferring perfect stacks when it comes to sliders ) Where to begin? Flow isn't really any problem here, section is so calm and sparse flow is almost nonexistent anyways. That's not even relevant though since how it flows is fairly similarly done to the rest, not like it should be to the same direction compared to the slider just for the sake of it. Point is just that the path of the cursor is fairly smooth and the distance is 'bout the same. Now for the overlap, not really gonna happen. Not only are they far away from each other (the former disappears for good before the latter appears. Even in editor.) but there are actual visible pattern ideas I want to preserve (see the fading blanket on 00:49:353 (2,1) - and triple on 00:49:353 (2,3,1) - and then the constant spacings. It's not possible to combine all these with stacking those, and when it's not particularly important issue it'll get skipped)

  3. 01:03:677 (2,5) - again, this overlap/closeness contradicts the cleaner aesthetics of its context, and there surely is the space to move it slightly upwards I don't think it's overlapping? But anyways since here I actually can execute it (somehow, it's not "just move it" I have fairly strict things goin on here y'know) I moved it a little

  4. 05:56:109 (3) - this particular circles aesthetics stand out because the overlap with 05:55:568 (2) - is different from your usual ones ( they are closer to the sliderend theyre overlapped with in the other cases ) ; that is fine in itself, but it becomes a problem at 05:58:676 (3) - when the same overlap is used with an entirely different rhythm since the player will have associated it with a 1/2 gap instead of a 3/2 one Okay so hold on a second, I didn't quite get what you mean. I see your concerns about 05:55:568 (2,3) - in comparison to other similar places done slightly differently and whatnot and then in comparison to different rhythm such as 05:57:730 (2,3) - getting done differently. That part makes sense, but how'd the change be from 1/2 to 3/2 and not 1/4 as it is there? Typo? Doesn't matter, I don't really see problems with this, so here comes the essay explanation part. Since you didn't have problems with slightly different ways of these for the same rhythms in different places I'll skip that and tackle on the rhythm instead. First, let's compare 05:56:109 (3) - and 05:58:676 (3) - ; actually no need for that much of an explanation, there's no way any player of this maps level would misread 1/4 for 3/2 or the other way. Lol. Also for more overall way, 1/4 always end up with the slider on tick (or rather, the sliderend not on tick) while rhythms up from that have sliderend on some actual sound (not sure if actually 100% of the time but pretty much, and if not, it's still on some more decipherable tick making more sense). Then for more difficult question, like how'd I differentiate 1/1 like 05:27:460 (3,4) - and 3/2 like 05:57:730 (2,3) - ? Well, I'm positive that's still not fairly big of a challenge for actual capable players (that you need to be to actually try to pass this). But skipping that, there's actually what you could use to see the difference, and it's to listen to the music. For examples these places I linked, the 1/1 is in a section that's based on it (or 2/1 or 4/1 or whatever you wanna use for it, point being it's straight) while 3/2 is in section where the base rhythm is 3/2, more swingy and containing those kind of leading notes like the example actually is itself too. TLDR: no change

  5. 05:56:649 (1,3) - ew overlap
reee the overlapping object has disappeared long before the next comes lol. Hell, it's almost disappeared before the object before that too. Srsly though, what's your mindset on overlaps? Things like this has absolutely no matter. And this mindset is fairly bad considering there are literally bound to be "unseen overlaps" like this since the playground is so small.


stream seems fine to me except maybe the section at 09:05:023 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - cause chain 5 note streams kill stamina due to demanding a lot of finger control on top of the aim, also would probably turn 09:12:050 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - into 4 kicksliders since having the longest stream where the guitar isnt at its highest pitch seems contradictory of the intensity ( rhythmically fine because of the drum kicks as well ) Let's begin with the "longest stream". Okay so first of all guitar = stream, pitch ≠ stream. Pitch is only used for spacing, since regardless of the pitch, the guitar is still shredding (if the pitch went really down I'd prob change shit though since the intensity would go down way more than what constant stream would be, not the case here). "But then it's going to be more intense than the higher spaced parts". Is it? In one way true. And anyway, the song is thematically "intensifying" in some way all the way until 09:15:843 - even though the way we perceive it it would have already went down little. No change. For the 5 note groups then. What to say, I sure know it's taxing, but so what? This is what the song gives me. Actually, since I haven't used my thematic metaphors in this mod answer yet (I think) lemme give one here: imagine those drums being like the harsh hits the ocean gives you while you are trying to survive, draining you of energy. Without great focus they'll drown you in a sec. Also, combine with the long stream you had a problem with after this, I think the sections overall intensity is in fairly good balance actually, shifting to slightly different things with these 5s and the longer streams before and after.

Good luck !
Thanks for the mod!
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry
Also now that I remembered, have been testing different stuff regarding the primary concern I have gotten about the stream (the fact that the spacing begins off as high af right off the bat) and frankly none of the ideas catch the music the same way as this current one, so I'll wait for more player feedback (and if possible gonna get some testplay it again so that I see how it works after it's in their knowledge) on this one.
AyanokoRin

TheKingHenry wrote:

[*]05:56:649 (1,3) - ew overlap[/list] reee the overlapping object has disappeared long before the next comes lol. Hell, it's almost disappeared before the object before that too. Srsly though, what's your mindset on overlaps? Things like this has absolutely no matter. And this mindset is fairly bad considering there are literally bound to be "unseen overlaps" like this since the playground is so small.
i pointed it out because it stood out to me in the editor and i think avoiding these makes for a cleaner structure overall, but its fine if your focus is how it looks in gameplay
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry

AyanokoRin wrote:

i pointed it out because it stood out to me in the editor and i think avoiding these makes for a cleaner structure overall, but its fine if your focus is how it looks in gameplay
Rather than focusing on gameplay, I mentioned gameplay as in how in there it disappears even more so quickly than in editor, in which the object still doesn't basically exist on the screen at the time the overlapping one appears. Even more so in this timestamp than the other, earlier one (which is why this one doesn't have comment about the gameplay versus because the time of disappearance is so much before that it's not even relevant anymore to differentiate the two (which you can see from the comment about the object before it too). Basically "unseen overlap" means that as in literally, not in the sense of not being visible in gameplay.
frogyfro
Mod from my queue

Please make that dark blue color even lighter. I still can't see it at all when I play the map, and I don't even use 100% dim.

00:09:894 (4,5,6) - I dislike that 4 5 6 form a wide angle. It encourages players to flow through 5 to 6 which diminishes the suddenness of the snare drum. If you moved 6 up-right of 4 5 or stacked 4 5 I think it would make 6 a lot more striking.

00:42:867 (1,2,3,4,1) - I love how this pattern decelerates but it feels weird that 3 4 and 4 1 have the same spacing. Move 1 closer to 4 to bring the deceleration all the way to the downbeat.

01:15:299 (1,2,3,4) - You should really do something here to reflect the crescendo in the hi hat. Just increasing spacing on each note would probably work well.

01:16:921 (1,2) - This is a completely pedantic suggestion but I don't really like how the stacks in this section feels. Forcing the player to stop moving entirely for 1/1 makes this part feel a lot less intense than I think it should.

01:19:893 (2) - There's no sound here. You need to do this like you did at 01:56:380 (1) -. Same problem at 01:28:542 (2) - 01:37:191 (2) - 01:41:515 (2) - 01:45:840 (2) - and so on.

03:26:921 (6,7,1,2) - I think this spacing is a bit much. I get you want to emphasize the guitar at this part, but it makes 03:28:001 (5,6) - weak by comparison which is problematic.

03:29:353 (1,2,3) - The guitar drops out entirely during 1 and 2 and there's just two weak bass drum hits before the crash + guitar entrance on 3. The way you currently have this arranged gives way too much importance to 1 and 2 and doesn't really reflect the lull in the song imo. I'd just space 1 and 2 down to better contrast them with the drum fill prior and the guitar entrance after. Obviously this doesn't apply to 03:38:002 (1,2) - because of the vocals.

04:47:460 (1,2) - I don't really see what's justifiying cutting the SV in half here. The ones later on like 05:04:757 (1,2) - fit the guitar surprisingly well, but these are a much smaller decrease in SV and they're supported by the guitar. This first one is such a sharp decrease it feels extremely unexpected for no good reason. Personally I'd make the SV decrease the same as the one later on, or just rework this pattern entirely and wait for the guitar to enter before throwing in these SV changes.

05:48:001 (1,2,1) - The long sliders and the pause after 2 is causing you to lose a lot of the momentum this solo has built up. I'd use the accompaniment for some filler rhythm and make this part more rhythmically dense so it doesn't feel so underwhelming.

08:49:618 (7) - Shouldn't this be 2 jumps instead of a slider to accentuate the guitar? You did that later on at 08:53:942 (7,8,1) - .

09:02:861 (1) - I think there's a lot going on this stream you could emphasize better. At 09:07:185 - when the guitar is mostly just the same note over and over again constant spacing makes a lot of sense, but that isn't the case at 09:02:861 -. There's clear peaks at 09:03:537 (11) - and 09:04:145 (4) - that really aren't getting any attention at all. I understand that you don't want to make this stream any more difficult than it already is, but I think making the stream accelerate into 11 instead of using constant spacing would better accentuate what the guitar is doing here, as well as making the transition into the stream less harsh than it currently is.
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry

frogyfro wrote:

Mod from my queue

Please make that dark blue color even lighter. I still can't see it at all when I play the map, and I don't even use 100% dim. tuned it slightly

00:09:894 (4,5,6) - I dislike that 4 5 6 form a wide angle. It encourages players to flow through 5 to 6 which diminishes the suddenness of the snare drum. If you moved 6 up-right of 4 5 or stacked 4 5 I think it would make 6 a lot more striking. While it's not bad suggestion at all, I think it's fine the current way. The whole pattern in the music which is 00:09:353 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - (and repeated) is as a overall arching lower in intensity towards the end, even though the final sound is fairly strong each time. Thus I made the angles smoothen towards the end, only emphasising the snare with spacing. That way it feels more like it brings the phrase to end, while sharp angle would be kinda too aggressive for that, since the intensity is supposed to die for the break between 00:10:434 (6,1) - (so the patterns are like occasional waves crashing to the shore)

00:42:867 (1,2,3,4,1) - I love how this pattern decelerates but it feels weird that 3 4 and 4 1 have the same spacing. Move 1 closer to 4 to bring the deceleration all the way to the downbeat. wouldn't be bad idea either, but the downbeat got more going already again (bass drum beat and whatnot, it's like more intense than the one before it; so in the end I decided to triangle it which looks pretty good visually as well

01:15:299 (1,2,3,4) - You should really do something here to reflect the crescendo in the hi hat. Just increasing spacing on each note would probably work well. The crescendo (only with 01:15:569 (2,3,4) - , the first one is stronger) is kinda minor to reflect with spacing difference here, since adding enough spacing for it to be meaningful with 1/1 would end up larger spacing than necessary for sounds like that so I think it's cleaner this way

01:16:921 (1,2) - This is a completely pedantic suggestion but I don't really like how the stacks in this section feels. Forcing the player to stop moving entirely for 1/1 makes this part feel a lot less intense than I think it should. Forcing the player to (almost) stop is kinda the idea of the pattern, I use plenty of these in this map to emphasise the 1/1 and I think they work pretty well imo

01:19:893 (2) - There's no sound here. You need to do this like you did at 01:56:380 (1) -. Same problem at 01:28:542 (2) - 01:37:191 (2) - 01:41:515 (2) - 01:45:840 (2) - and so on. oh shit Nvm seems fine, it's just that they get kinda like drowned by the cymbal reverberations; it's the same quiet pattern like 01:15:569 (2) - ; and even with the most quiet ones like 01:24:218 (2) - it's not really bad even as a filler rhythm (like the most simple out of them all, 1/1 lul); this is since I want to keep the 01:54:218 (1) - type stuff not only for how the drum pattern slightly shifts for less clear 1/1, but how it at the same time begins giving more highlight to the guitar which is coming to take the center later on

03:26:921 (6,7,1,2) - I think this spacing is a bit much. I get you want to emphasize the guitar at this part, but it makes 03:28:001 (5,6) - weak by comparison which is problematic. Agree (sort of) but to keep the guitar spacing same with the other ones (which I think they are), buffed 03:28:001 (5,6) - little instead; I don't think it needs to be massively changed since unlike 03:27:056 (7,1) - which is one-way trip with "break" in both sides, 03:28:001 (5,6,1) - is subsequently back-and-forth 2 jumps, which makes it "faster" and thus more intense. Same with the later patterning of this stuff (which already has better spacing comparisons than this so needs no changes I think

03:29:353 (1,2,3) - The guitar drops out entirely during 1 and 2 and there's just two weak bass drum hits before the crash + guitar entrance on 3. The way you currently have this arranged gives way too much importance to 1 and 2 and doesn't really reflect the lull in the song imo. I'd just space 1 and 2 down to better contrast them with the drum fill prior and the guitar entrance after. Obviously this doesn't apply to 03:38:002 (1,2) - because of the vocals. I don't think the bass drums are weak though, they are actually about as strong as bass drum can get (wihtout sounding fucked up); they are more intense than for example 03:38:002 (1,2) - (important is that the latter sounds like stream-kinda while former doesn't since it sounds like the hits are emphasised individually. Other than that you point is pretty valid so I tuned them little down and switched some emphasis to the following slider instead (same with earlier 03:20:704 (1,2) - you missed)

04:47:460 (1,2) - I don't really see what's justifiying cutting the SV in half here. The ones later on like 05:04:757 (1,2) - fit the guitar surprisingly well, but these are a much smaller decrease in SV and they're supported by the guitar. This first one is such a sharp decrease it feels extremely unexpected for no good reason. Personally I'd make the SV decrease the same as the one later on, or just rework this pattern entirely and wait for the guitar to enter before throwing in these SV changes. Nah it's good; since the guitars are pretty much drone here, this SV change is pretty much combination of two things: the cymbal sounds (which should already be pretty clear here, I can't be the only one hearing the difference) combined with the influences from the contextual sections. First the cymbal sounds. Kinda tough to put into words, but tldr the first one sounds a lot more intense than the latter, with "active" sound throughout it, while the latter (especially compared to the sound before) is more passive background type sound. This contrast with these cymbals is where I also put the transition between sections/patterns from the not intense but atleast something (especially the drum sounds leading to it 04:47:190 (2,3,1) - ) that is before it to the very calm one that comes after (1/1). To comment on your comparison to guitars, you ain't wrong, though at the same time fine tuning SVs is easier with guitar tones and thus making reasonable emphasises for stuff like cymbal sounds needs more drastic measures, or the change just goes unnoticed.

05:48:001 (1,2,1) - The long sliders and the pause after 2 is causing you to lose a lot of the momentum this solo has built up. I'd use the accompaniment for some filler rhythm and make this part more rhythmically dense so it doesn't feel so underwhelming. The long sliders and pause are pretty much what the song offers though. I woulda actually added some filler rhythms if it could work somehow here, but I think the current one is actually better than forcing some stuff there. I'll just let the solo be what it is, it's not like it's bad if the momentum gets down if the momentum gets down in the music as well.

08:49:618 (7) - Shouldn't this be 2 jumps instead of a slider to accentuate the guitar? You did that later on at 08:53:942 (7,8,1) - . While it is similar, it's not nearly as distinct as 08:53:942 (7,8) - mostly because here pitch change only once (in the red tick) while with 08:53:942 (7,8) - it changes 3 times, with every red tick pretty much. Thus to reduce the already highly demanding tapping I'd prefer to keep it as is (like all the other measures there are too)

09:02:861 (1) - I think there's a lot going on this stream you could emphasize better. At 09:07:185 - when the guitar is mostly just the same note over and over again constant spacing makes a lot of sense, but that isn't the case at 09:02:861 -. There's clear peaks at 09:03:537 (11) - and 09:04:145 (4) - that really aren't getting any attention at all. I understand that you don't want to make this stream any more difficult than it already is, but I think making the stream accelerate into 11 instead of using constant spacing would better accentuate what the guitar is doing here, as well as making the transition into the stream less harsh than it currently is. Not necessary. First of all, it's constant tremolo picking (with constant pitch except the obvious changes); the peaks you hear (that aren't really audible unless you slow down) are just due the human player not being able to do constantly the exact same motion, and the guitar reacting to that with small changes (like more "open" sound at some notes for example). Like I said, these changes are inaudible with playing speed and aren't actually supposed to theoretically exist in the music either so I think going straightforward is better, also making the already challenging section perhaps little more lenient. Your comment about transitioning to the stream section is valid though (the context of its usage here aside) and it's pretty much the only real concern I've gotten from testplays so far (as a first try effect though I guess);
but whether or not I change is up to more feedback or if I'd make up a better alternative for the beginning of the streams
Thanks for the mod!
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry
Lol anotha one revived I'm gonna run out of space soon
Alexsander
Sorry for the delay, the net doesn't cooperate when sending

[Colossus, the Wrath of the Ocean]

  1. I think these reverse wasn't a good choice because the sound at 00: 07: 191 - may need to be clickable even if it isn't strong
  2. 00:10:164 (5,6) - those moments where 6:10:434 (6) - is strong you could impose a greater distance to emphasize even though 1/1 I think would be interesting
  3. 00:26:650 (1,2) - I didn't understand because it has a distance below 00:28:813 (1,2) - since it's the same sound and this happens throughout the session I recommend you leave the same
  4. 00:28:813 (1) - the sound of it is strong, I think it deserves an emphasis on distance to differentiate from 00:27:732 (2,3) - (repeated throughout the session)
  5. 02:22:326 (2) - how about this slider being more open as: https://prnt.sc/ifk6jp
  6. 04:14:082 (1,2) - maybe a 1/2 slider is better to follow vocal
  7. 04:12:596 - the jumps that you did in this kiai are similar and something not varied which can be bad (04:13:677 (1,2,3,1,2,3) -, 04:15:568 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - etcs) could have more variations
  8. 08:33:131 (1,2,3) - I don't understand the increase of this sudden distance since it does not have any important sound, I suggest keeping the same distance used in 08:27:726 (5,6,7) - in this session
  9. 08:45:564 - Should a stream start here?


I think this last kiai was badly structured with these circles, I think it should have a stream.
The rest of the map is fine with some inconsistencies.
Sorry for the english errors and the short mod :(
GL
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry

Alexsander wrote:

Sorry for the delay, the net doesn't cooperate when sending

[Colossus, the Wrath of the Ocean]

  1. I think these reverse wasn't a good choice because the sound at 00: 07: 191 - may need to be clickable even if it isn't strong Not necessary. Not only is the sound pretty much a drone with occasional edges, the particular one you linked isn't strong at all, not even among this sound,
    since basically this (the edges) get quieter and softer the more it goes on.
  2. 00:10:164 (5,6) - those moments where 6:10:434 (6) - is strong you could impose a greater distance to emphasize even though 1/1 I think would be interesting First of all I think your links are fucked up lol. Anyways, I think it's fine currently. Small tuning to 1/1 doesn't make enough change to be worth and large changes aren't really desirable since not only is this supposed to be calm section, it would lessen the impact of the actual 1/2 which are supposed to be more important than the 1/1 even if these particular 1/1 sounds are fairly strong.
  3. 00:26:650 (1,2) - I didn't understand because it has a distance below 00:28:813 (1,2) - since it's the same sound and this happens throughout the session I recommend you leave the same Can't say I'm 100% sure I understood completely what you meant, but if it's about 00:28:813 (1,2) - having larger spacing than 00:26:650 (1,2) - (and some others) then it doesn't really matter at all. Not only is it small difference in when talking about how 1/1 work, but it's also due the objects getting stacked with surrounding ones, not just without any reason. No need to change it
  4. 00:28:813 (1) - the sound of it is strong, I think it deserves an emphasis on distance to differentiate from 00:27:732 (2,3) - (repeated throughout the session)
  5. 02:22:326 (2) - how about this slider being more open as: https://prnt.sc/ifk6jp Yeah why not actually, it looks nice and wavey so it fits the thematics. Tuned little with your pic in mind
  6. 04:14:082 (1,2) - maybe a 1/2 slider is better to follow vocal Nah no; I prefer following the instrumental ideas here
  7. 04:12:596 - the jumps that you did in this kiai are similar and something not varied which can be bad (04:13:677 (1,2,3,1,2,3) -, 04:15:568 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - etcs) could have more variations This is pretty much the idea of the kiais though. You can read more of this from mods before (I think)
    but basically just think of them as whirlpools of sorts. Also it's not like there isn't any variation, not only are the halves of kiais differentiated, but same pattern ≠ no variation. The angles between transitions and so on can change and the resulting movement may actually go rampant even if it mostly consists of the same triangles. Also worth noting that the music is fairly repetitive/constant as well, so I don't think overly variation is even good for song expression.

  8. 08:33:131 (1,2,3) - I don't understand the increase of this sudden distance since it does not have any important sound, I suggest keeping the same distance used in 08:27:726 (5,6,7) - in this session Since in this section guitar pitch is the only thing that changes, when it changes, the impact on music is significant. So here (as you probably noticed), pitch = spacing
  9. 08:45:564 - Should a stream start here? No? Drums stay 1/2 for pretty much whole section and guitar is 1/1 all the way until the shred which is where the stream currently starts, 09:02:861 -


I think this last kiai was badly structured with these circles, I think it should have a stream.
The rest of the map is fine with some inconsistencies.
Sorry for the english errors and the short mod :(
GL
Thanks for the mod!
Alexsander
I was wrong on the last suggestion, sorry
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry

Alexsander wrote:

I was wrong on the last suggestion, sorry
Don't mind it, mistakes happen
Net0
Stars so I can remember to mod this soon enough :>
Net0
[General]
  1. This suggestion is regarding your chorus and it’s mostly a subjective mapping perspective. Before let me tell you that your mapping is not wrong, the rhythm is correct, the aim intensity and flow changes are according to the song. My issue with the kiai is mostly because rhythm/visual/play wise it is too repetitive. I know the song is pretty much following those repetitions, but the way you mapped it and considering the difficulty you’re aiming with this marathon, feels too much repetitive. That in itself isn’t a problem, since I actually don’t mind repetitive maps. But the context here is not old mapping/insane difficulty. Here you’re mapping a progressive metal song in a 7* difficulty map. I truly feel like the chorus should be done in a more interesting way at least pattern wise, to avoid making the players feel underwhelmed by what the map presents in one of its most important sections.
    If you compare how you made the patterns in other sections like 03:20:704 - ~ 03:38:002 – they seem way more dynamic as a matter of comparision. Hope you can take this criticism in a positive way.
[ Colossus, the Wrath of the Ocean ]
  1. 00:00:705 (1) – Use a slidertick hitsound with lower volume in this repeat slider imo
  2. 02:11:515 (2) – You don’t need that huge amount of points to make a slider like that; just compare this two designs; your version https://puu.sh/zwajj.png with something like this https://puu.sh/zwajL.png . The fewer amount of points, better it is to control the visual.
  3. 02:18:002 (2) – This slider should be consistent with 02:24:488 (2) - imo
  4. 02:24:488 (2,1) – Cool idea btw really liked this
  5. Again slider consistency 02:26:650 (2) -/02:28:813 (2) -
  6. You could make the spacing here a bit more consistent 03:18:542 (1,2,3,1,2,3) – with 03:01:245 (1,2,3,1,2,3) – specially on the second repetition 03:01:786 (1,2,3) - /03:19:083 (1,2,3) -.
  7. Personally I think the way you placed this two sliders 04:28:001 (3) -/04:28:541 (3) – works better compared to 04:29:893 (3) -/04:30:433 (3) – it’s visually more organized
  8. Same thing mentioned about a lot of points when you could have done fewer and achieve the same visual result 04:43:136 (3) –
  9. 05:22:055 (1,2,1) – This could be more polished visually if the slider end of 05:22:055 (1) – and 05:22:460 (2) – along with 05:22:460 (2) – sliderhead formed a triangle with 05:23:136 (1) – as the center of it. Quick comparision; https://puu.sh/zwaSy.png and https://puu.sh/zwaWe.png
  10. Really cool stuff 05:24:217 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) –
  11. In this section 06:50:973 - ~ 07:26:645 – you repeat the same slider shape for 36 seconds in a row. You could implement a distinction from the parts with longer gap 06:50:973 - ~ 07:06:108 – and the faster one 07:06:108 - ~ 07:26:645 –
  12. The final solo is a really big spike. Depending on your mapping perspective that can be an issue or not, so I’m just objectively pointing that it is a big spike. If you think that’s positive then this is not an issue ^^
  13. Regarding the stream itself I recommend that the kicks 09:05:023 (1) – should be using slightly curves instead of straight shape, mostly for visual improvement and to also help indicate the implied movement you’re going for in sections like this 09:05:023 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) -
Couldn’t really point a lot because the map is very consistent and well made. Hitsound and music representation are really great in this map. But like I said, the repetitions and the rhythm are part of the structure you choose to use and those are the things I could potentially see as elements that could make the map not so enjoyable for some people. Hope you keep on mapping progressive metal and best of luck with this map and your future projects ^^
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry

Net0 wrote:

[General]
  1. This suggestion is regarding your chorus and it’s mostly a subjective mapping perspective. Before let me tell you that your mapping is not wrong, the rhythm is correct, the aim intensity and flow changes are according to the song. My issue with the kiai is mostly because rhythm/visual/play wise it is too repetitive. I know the song is pretty much following those repetitions, but the way you mapped it and considering the difficulty you’re aiming with this marathon, feels too much repetitive. That in itself isn’t a problem, since I actually don’t mind repetitive maps. But the context here is not old mapping/insane difficulty. Here you’re mapping a progressive metal song in a 7* difficulty map. I truly feel like the chorus should be done in a more interesting way at least pattern wise, to avoid making the players feel underwhelmed by what the map presents in one of its most important sections.
    If you compare how you made the patterns in other sections like 03:20:704 - ~ 03:38:002 – they seem way more dynamic as a matter of comparision. Hope you can take this criticism in a positive way. Valid points (kinda similar to what I've gotten already on those, along with multiple similar "well,
    it's the song" as well lol). Even though one could label this (or In Mourning in general) to progressive metal, it doesn't in the end mean their stuff makes for varying map experience, similarly to many other similar style bands. The songs may contain lots of cool stuff and variation and all that, but they also contain lots of repetition of possibly all the said things or atleast the main themes, and often sections that are only accompanied by more simplistic musical soundscapes. This section you linked as interesting just not really coincidentally happens to be one of the best sections in the song for mapping (aside prob some of the solo sections), with lots of subtle little ideas with not too much repetition and so on. For example on the other hand, the kiais or the ending "solo" parts don't work quite the same.
    Actually the only "progressive" gimmick with the kiais are the 7/4 other than that they are pretty much the same constant 1/2 as most of the verses (with actually less interesting guitar lines for rhythm game). The solo on the other hand feels more like atmospheric side of stuff, with pretty much everything going with standard stuff on instruments but strong feeling of the finale with what they do. This doesn't quite transfer to map without more raw mechanical patterns which then end up quite draining like what the song could possibly feel as well with the drain. Now these couple points could also be taken into account when thinking of the thematics I tried putting up for this which is some sort of battle against the sea. First of all, it's long af like the neverending sail of your life.As for what there are in the sail, that's the contains of the map and song: lots of calmer sections combined with more intense ones, some more "bubbling" sections with more airy touch with light trickery on rhythms and such but also more grim heavy sections with raw force against you usually as prolonged periods of sustained rhythm and soundscape and so on. I tried expressing these things in some way in the map, which might've been good or bad idea, might've worked or not, dunno. I don't really know what the kiai for example feels like, if it's underwhelming or not, but repetitive pattern with more straightforward challenge is what I made it to be (with the single idea mostly used in it basing on the thematics I'm using). All in all these are fair concerns since what's the point of having strictly "music based" map if due it no one will enjoy playing it. That being said the testplay I got from Rohulk for example ended up in feedback of about these lines "it's pretty repetitive. I didn't really mind though since I liked the song". I guess it kind of can end up with tastes like that as well.

[ Colossus, the Wrath of the Ocean ]
  1. 00:00:705 (1) – Use a slidertick hitsound with lower volume in this repeat slider imo Not really necessary. While it's kinda like "why not indeed" it's almost inaudible as is and the slight feedback of how many ticks it cover may be helpful to someone so I'll keep it as is
  2. 02:11:515 (2) – You don’t need that huge amount of points to make a slider like that; just compare this two designs; your version https://puu.sh/zwajj.png with something like this https://puu.sh/zwajL.png . The fewer amount of points, better it is to control the visual. You're right, dunno why I originally made it like that. That being said as it's ready already I don't really see the need to change it anymore lol
  3. 02:18:002 (2) – This slider should be consistent with 02:24:488 (2) - imo They are intentionally not the same, like waves in the ocean are everchanging atleast slightly. Sure there are some same shapes here and there used in these sections as exact the same but most of the time not
  4. 02:24:488 (2,1) – Cool idea btw really liked this
  5. Again slider consistency 02:26:650 (2) -/02:28:813 (2) - ^
  6. You could make the spacing here a bit more consistent 03:18:542 (1,2,3,1,2,3) – with 03:01:245 (1,2,3,1,2,3) – specially on the second repetition 03:01:786 (1,2,3) - /03:19:083 (1,2,3) -. No need, the DS are almost the same already. That's fairly strict you're going considering I'm fairly sure my map uses more DS than most lol
  7. Personally I think the way you placed this two sliders 04:28:001 (3) -/04:28:541 (3) – works better compared to 04:29:893 (3) -/04:30:433 (3) – it’s visually more organized Don't really see what'd make any clear difference in visuals, the ideas are pretty much the same. I mean I see what part you're looking at here but I don't see the need, the looks compare fine as is
  8. Same thing mentioned about a lot of points when you could have done fewer and achieve the same visual result 04:43:136 (3) – Not actually many fewer mind me (I tested). Anyways pretty much the same as above
  9. 05:22:055 (1,2,1) – This could be more polished visually if the slider end of 05:22:055 (1) – and 05:22:460 (2) – along with 05:22:460 (2) – sliderhead formed a triangle with 05:23:136 (1) – as the center of it. Quick comparision; https://puu.sh/zwaSy.png and https://puu.sh/zwaWe.png The circle isn't perfectly in the middle in your pic though *triggered* also I'd rather keep the little larger spacing for it. Tuned the sliderend for more along the triangle shape though.
  10. Really cool stuff 05:24:217 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) –
  11. In this section 06:50:973 - ~ 07:26:645 – you repeat the same slider shape for 36 seconds in a row. You could implement a distinction from the parts with longer gap 06:50:973 - ~ 07:06:108 – and the faster one 07:06:108 - ~ 07:26:645 – Intentionally so. Actually so much so, that the slider shape even "changes" due to SV but you didn't notice it. As in, when the gaps the faster as you said, the SV gets higher but I wanted to keep the slider shape the same, just more aggressive patterning other than that (since, well, the sound of the guitar chug stays the same). Well the shape is very similar still, just longer and little more curved with the length addition (iirc)
  12. The final solo is a really big spike. Depending on your mapping perspective that can be an issue or not, so I’m just objectively pointing that it is a big spike. If you think that’s positive then this is not an issue ^^ It's not actually as big of a spike as you think. Depending on according to what you think. In terms of actual playing it's fairly big spike, with not only highest spacing in the map but also relentless stamina demands on both singletapping and streaming. If you look at the SR though, it's not actually that large of a spike (well, not like SR is really relevant but just mentioning for comparison). The jump part of the solo raises it about 0,2* and the stream part about another 0,2* (when I was mapping) thus lining fairly well with how the actual intensity of the song goes up. The harsh stamina part might not line up with the repetitiviness of the song quite as well even though repetition is a form of emphasis too,
    but it's not really out of the left field either.
  13. Regarding the stream itself I recommend that the kicks 09:05:023 (1) – should be using slightly curves instead of straight shape, mostly for visual improvement and to also help indicate the implied movement you’re going for in sections like this 09:05:023 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) - Not really necessary. Not only do I like kicksliders mostly straight for their looks too (sliders short in both visual and timing length aren't too great curved imo) I like their straightforwardness in the playing aspect as well. Not like either way it'd make that much difference on that though imo
Couldn’t really point a lot because the map is very consistent and well made. Hitsound and music representation are really great in this map. But like I said, the repetitions and the rhythm are part of the structure you choose to use and those are the things I could potentially see as elements that could make the map not so enjoyable for some people. Hope you keep on mapping progressive metal and best of luck with this map and your future projects ^^
Thanks for the mod!
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry
Also another change not with the previous mod above here but rather what I noticed myself: soft-sliderslide99 got removed while back with -Faded-'s mod, but I re-implemented it since it's actually not unused due osu! for some reason applying sliderslide hitsound on the sliderend as well (or something). This caused short occasions of the default sliderslide hitsound to occur everytime hitsoundset 99 was used on prolonged sliderend, since the set 99 silenced slide got removed. This isn't the intention since the end's are supposed to be silent (and it proves that the file isn't unused) so I got it back.
Net0

TheKingHenry wrote:

Net0 wrote:

[ Colossus, the Wrath of the Ocean ]
  1. In this section 06:50:973 - ~ 07:26:645 – you repeat the same slider shape for 36 seconds in a row. You could implement a distinction from the parts with longer gap 06:50:973 - ~ 07:06:108 – and the faster one 07:06:108 - ~ 07:26:645 – Intentionally so. Actually so much so, that the slider shape even "changes" due to SV but you didn't notice it. As in, when the gaps the faster as you said, the SV gets higher but I wanted to keep the slider shape the same, just more aggressive patterning other than that (since, well, the sound of the guitar chug stays the same). Well the shape is very similar still, just longer and little more curved with the length addition (iirc)I really recommend you reconsider this point, the distinction you're talking about is so small in terms of slider design that is not enough to avoid the repetitive feeling of this section, the element of distinction SV change has impact, but not as much because you kept using the curved slider idea. Again, this suggestion is mostly aimed to break the repetitive of it, but since I read your reply it seems this is what you're aiming for, so yeah, feel free to apply only if you trully believe it won't break your concept.
  2. 05:22:055 (1,2,1) – This could be more polished visually if the slider end of 05:22:055 (1) – and 05:22:460 (2) – along with 05:22:460 (2) – sliderhead formed a triangle with 05:23:136 (1) – as the center of it. Quick comparision; https://puu.sh/zwaSy.png and https://puu.sh/zwaWe.png The circle isn't perfectly in the middle in your pic though *triggered*Hey it's perfectly in the middle, I went to geometry class! xD
Good luck again :)
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry
Well yeah that was pretty much summed up, the change exists but it's small because I want to keep the fairly the same ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

AMX wrote:

Gorgeous streams towards end! 10/10. PM me when ur ready for mods and i'll gladly mod it!
>5 months later
Where the f you at AMX ╭( ・ㅂ・)و LOL
Senery
hi i saw you accepted my request so here is the m4m!

[Colossus, the Warth of the Ocean]
  1. 01:01:245 - I feel like you should change up the rhythm(aswell as the patterning) a bit so it isnt as monotone. This section is 1 min combined with the previous section makes it so the intro here is a bit boring because of the repeated rhythm you use here, i think changing it up a bit negates that, example is that you can incorporate the guitar that starts at 01:01:245 - so its not as monotone
  2. 02:07:732 (2,3) - maybe put this on 02:06:380 (2) - so that the spacing between (1) and (2) is a bit bigger, because of the 1/1 gab between them
  3. 02:15:840 (2) - im not really a fan of these sliders, its probably just me, but it makes the map look a bit messy
  4. 07:32:050 (1) - maybe space ths one out a bit more so it has a bit more emphasis on it
  5. 09:02:861 - for this section i feel like you should start with a little less spaced stream so that the player isnt suprised by such a spaced stream, the player can easily fail on it and putting something like this on a 10 min map is pretty discouraging for the player, so maybe start with a less spaced stream before this section begins
  6. 09:05:158 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1) - i also feel like this is really messy, so maybe space them out of the stream section a bit more because of all the overlapping that is happening here, aswell as 09:05:158 (2,3,4,5,1) - and 09:05:969 (2,3,4,5,1) - are stacked so why are the others not stacked?
  7. 09:10:158 (3,4,5,6,1) - maybe move this down a bit so it stacks with 09:09:753 (5) -


The map is really awesome i love it, hope to see this ranked someday! i hope the mod help :) !
Topic Starter
TheKingHenry

Senery wrote:

hi i saw you accepted my request so here is the m4m!

[Colossus, the Warth of the Ocean]
  1. 01:01:245 - I feel like you should change up the rhythm(aswell as the patterning) a bit so it isnt as monotone. This section is 1 min combined with the previous section makes it so the intro here is a bit boring because of the repeated rhythm you use here, i think changing it up a bit negates that, example is that you can incorporate the guitar that starts at 01:01:245 - so its not as monotone Indeed I've gotten some comments on my map being too repetitive (which isn't really wrong?); but that's mostly because the song is that way. Actually overall it's not too uncommon for songs/maps to consist mostly of 1/2 with occasional fills and shits, here the rhythm is actually more interesting, it's just that the instances are mapped the same unlike with most of repetitive 1/2 in maps for example. Basically imo even if the same rhythm repeats quite the while, the rhythm itself is interesting enough for atleast me to not feel it's too repetitive. Incorporating guitar wouldn't be bad idea if what it has on the other hand wouldn't be a lot more stale than the stuff I keep doing atm.
    And well, repetitive in terms of song expression is also used as a effect here on some level, you can see some earlier mods for that stuff if interested.
  2. 02:07:732 (2,3) - maybe put this on 02:06:380 (2) - so that the spacing between (1) and (2) is a bit bigger, because of the 1/1 gab between them Nah it's better this way since it's supposed to be smaller than the 2/1 before it; as both are not "jump rhythms" or how you want to say it anyways they aren't too fast tapped ones (1/2 here) I want to keep their spacing relative to how long the gap in time is.
  3. 02:15:840 (2) - im not really a fan of these sliders, its probably just me, but it makes the map look a bit messy
  4. 07:32:050 (1) - maybe space ths one out a bit more so it has a bit more emphasis on it Why not actually
  5. 09:02:861 - for this section i feel like you should start with a little less spaced stream so that the player isnt suprised by such a spaced stream, the player can easily fail on it and putting something like this on a 10 min map is pretty discouraging for the player, so maybe start with a less spaced stream before this section begins Indeed I got comment from testplayer suggesting better transition, but this is way more fitting musically, and tbh the overall spacing of the section before is already high af and high spacing stream fits the movement better, so it's just matter of actually hitting the beginning or not.
    Not like I won't change this later on though if need arises.
  6. 09:05:158 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1) - i also feel like this is really messy, so maybe space them out of the stream section a bit more because of all the overlapping that is happening here, aswell as 09:05:158 (2,3,4,5,1) - and 09:05:969 (2,3,4,5,1) - are stacked so why are the others not stacked?
  7. 09:10:158 (3,4,5,6,1) - maybe move this down a bit so it stacks with 09:09:753 (5) - Not really messy tbh, it looks fine in the editor already and with high ar gameplay it's even less of that way. As for stacking difference, it's pretty obvious: 09:05:564 (2,3,4,5,1) - is supposed to be in the symmetric blanket pattern these are supposed to form but 09:04:685 (12,13,14,15,16,1) - doesn't do it


The map is really awesome i love it, hope to see this ranked someday! i hope the mod help :) !
Thanks for the mod!
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