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posted

SirOxorsid wrote:

Nothing against people who enjoy playing to gain PP but they should be aware that they can't keep it up forever, eventually you will have to actually git gud.
Yet the idea that someone might actually get good by virtue of playing all the time, or even just playing more than they would without "farming", somehow eludes you. There is always a farm map because as you get better, other maps get easier, and therefore "farmable".

Nattsun wrote:

Philosofikal wrote:

This is exactly the dumb kind of shit that is an inevitable result of this community's unhealthy obsession with how you should and should not play the game if you want to be "respected" by a select group of ignorant losers with a sense of unwarranted self importance. Great job spreading poor playing mentalities, guys!

I'm a completely unashamed "farmer". I buy into the PP system completely. You know why? Sure, it has its flaws in map weighting, but I consider the system to be a huge net positive in terms of motivating me to play the game - you know, playing more, the only thing that actually matters and the fundamental message of almost every response to lazy inquiries for advice? The PP system helps set realistic, achievable goals, rewards players for mastering maps and mods they otherwise wouldn't take a second glance at, and helps you track your progress and growth as a player and compare yourself to other players in a fairly accurately objective manner. These are all great positives to the system, it's a huge shame that everyone's elitism due to insecurity overshadows the benefits that using the system to your advantage can bring.
Do you know why I don't respect farmers? They didn't try to accomplish their personal goal, they were all chasing for pp.

Is a higher rank really what you want? Don't you want to FC that certain techmap badly? Don't you want to "git guud" and farm whenever you please?

To each his own I guess.
But, see, that's not really why you don't respect pp farmers.

You don't respect pp farmers because they don't try to accomplish YOUR personal goals, and that's ignorant.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2006-03-20

People play games for all different kinds of reasons. Some people play to be part of a community and compete among a group of friends. Some people want to prove that a weird playstyle has viability, or that they can do some oddball thing that nobody else can. Some people want to be ranked as high as possible so they can be seen as better and stronger than their peers. There are all kinds of different reasons to play this game and instead of shaming people for not fitting into neat little boxes of whatever a legitimate player is, we should be fostering a rich, diverse community and encouraging people to find their motivation, whatever that motivation might be, and keep coming back so that this game grows and stays relevant forever.

We lose nothing from having players that like to grind maps that give you an "overweighted" amount of imaginary internet points. But, the only thing we gain from shaming players for doing it is that somebody gets to jerk their little ding dong off about their narrow minded ideology of what a player should be and should do and how cool and smart they are for thinking that way at the expense of having a diverse, welcoming, tolerant community. Who needs that?

The only thing that really matters is that people find a reason to play more. It doesn't matter what that reason is, or how they go about accomplishing that goal. The end, mic drop, th-th-th-that's all folks!
posted

Philosofikal wrote:

SirOxorsid wrote:

Nothing against people who enjoy playing to gain PP but they should be aware that they can't keep it up forever, eventually you will have to actually git gud.
Yet the idea that someone might actually get good by virtue of playing all the time, or even just more than they would without "farming", somehow eludes you. There is always a farm map because as you get better, other maps get easier, and therefore "farmable".
You can't "get good" by only playing farm maps. With the way farm maps are today they dont accurately test your skill—TV size anime openings with 2 big jump sections that boost the star rating from 5* to 6*. Coming from someone who farms a lot, you cant improve by only playing farm maps. Yes you'll be able to farm higher starred maps but eventually you will hit a wall, trust me. You can get better by farming, but you cant get good by farm maps alone. Playing to gain PP is perfectly fine but the idea that you can significantly improve only by playing for PP, is incorrect. The progress is short-lived, and eventually you WILL hit a wall, trust me. However yeah, theres nothing wrong with playing for PP, but if you're actually looking to grow as a player thats not the way to go. anyways the osu community is cancer idk what u expected
posted

c-atsuit wrote:

Philosofikal wrote:

Yet the idea that someone might actually get good by virtue of playing all the time, or even just more than they would without "farming", somehow eludes you. There is always a farm map because as you get better, other maps get easier, and therefore "farmable"
You can't "get good" by only playing farm maps. With the way farm maps are today they dont accurately test your skill—TV size anime openings with 2 big jump sections that boost the star rating from 5* to 6*. Coming from someone who farms a lot, you cant improve by only playing farm maps. Yes you'll be able to farm higher starred maps but eventually you will hit a wall, trust me. You can get better by farming, but you cant get good by farm maps alone. Playing to gain PP is perfectly fine but the idea that you can significantly improve only by playing for PP, is incorrect. The progress is short-lived, and eventually you WILL hit a wall, trust me. However yeah, theres nothing wrong with playing for PP, but if you're actually looking to grow as a player thats not the way to go. anyways the osu community is cancer idk what u expected
So, this isn't a farm map, then?

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/774965?m=0
posted

Philosofikal wrote:

So, this isn't a farm map, then?

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/774965?m=0
Did I say the only farm maps were TV size anime openings? No. But I personally wouldn't consider that a farm map cause yeah u can farm it but its actually difficult if youre trying to get a substantial amount of pp from it
posted

c-atsuit wrote:

Did I say the only farm maps were TV size anime openings? No. But I personally wouldn't consider that a farm map cause yeah u can farm it but its actually difficult if youre trying to get a substantial amount of pp from it
You can't "get good" by only playing farm maps. With the way farm maps are today they dont accurately test your skill—TV size anime openings with 2 big jump sections that boost the star rating from 5* to 6*. Coming from someone who farms a lot, you cant improve by only playing farm maps.
Well, you sort of did. And if that's not what you were implying, then your point is essentially diluted into meaningless. If "anything" can be a farm map, well... I guess that brings us to my point, which is... there is no cap to "farm maps" because a farm map can be basically anything that is overweighted relative to maps in its skillset range, or even just tailored to your skillset range - some of my highest pp plays I did in like one or two tries just because I was naturally good at that map. The sky is the limit when it comes to overweighted maps, and they come in all shapes and sizes. As I was saying, "farming" is a mindset and a playstyle, not a property of a map, aside from being overweighted.

So, yes, you can get good purely playing for pp, because it doesn't actually really limit what you play in any way, pp is only what motivates you to play - and why feel the need to bully someone based purely on something as petty as their motivation for playing or what they choose to play?
posted

Philosofikal wrote:

But, see, that's not really why you don't respect pp farmers.

You don't respect pp farmers because they don't try to accomplish YOUR personal goals, and that's ignorant.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2006-03-20

People play games for all different kinds of reasons. Some people play to be part of a community and compete among a group of friends. Some people want to prove that a weird playstyle has viability, or that they can do some oddball thing that nobody else can. Some people want to be ranked as high as possible so they can be seen as better and stronger than their peers. There are all kinds of different reasons to play this game and instead of shaming people for not fitting into neat little boxes of whatever a legitimate player is, we should be fostering a rich, diverse community and encouraging people to find their motivation, whatever that motivation might be, and keep coming back so that this game grows and stays relevant forever.

We lose nothing from having players that like to grind maps that give you an "overweighted" amount of imaginary internet points. But, the only thing we gain from shaming players for doing it is that somebody gets to jerk their little ding dong off about their narrow minded ideology of what a player should be and should do and how cool and smart they are for thinking that way at the expense of having a diverse, welcoming, tolerant community. Who needs that?

The only thing that really matters is that people find a reason to play more. It doesn't matter what that reason is, or how they go about accomplishing that goal. The end, mic drop, th-th-th-that's all folks!
I'd respect you if you say that rank is all you care about, but I know that most people who actually claim that lie. I've met enough people who said they wanna FC this and that, but went back to farming.

And in all honesty, I really don't respect players who measure their skill with their rank, especially if you rape the retry button it becomes less and less impressive. That aside, the only players I look up to are the ones who can play everything. Andrea, WWW, Toy, Doomsday, all those legends who can just F2 to a map, be it AR6, CS8 or whatever it is now, they can just play it and FC it and that's what I am "aiming" for. Since I stopped tryharding it can take some time :^)
posted

TIMMY, JOHNNY, AND SPIKE REVISITED wrote:

So why does Spike play? Spikes plays to prove something, primarily to prove how good he is. You see, Spike sees the game as a mental challenge by which he can define and demonstrate his abilities.
Playing for pp doesn't make you a short-sighted moron jumping from easy target to easy target. Why would you assume that someone who plays for pp only plays maps that are high reward? pp is simply the tool that is used to measure oneself against, the ruler to measure your growth, the ultimate goal that most playing experience is used to develop towards - but that doesn't mean it's the only step in that goal! I don't purely play for rank - I define my ultimate skill by my rank. I mean, look at my recent play history:



I ground a 0pp Loved map that I found fun enough to grind on for multiple hours straight purely to improve my skillset - so I can get more pp in the future, because I recognize that more skills inevitably leads to easier pp. As I keep saying, pp gain is a mindset, not a crutch or a mental prison.
posted
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posted
You're not understanding my point. I would definitely consider myself to be a pp farmer, because pp is what I ultimately measure my strength and progress as a player with - my point is that you can be a pp farmer and not a neurotic, self defeating, short-sighted idiot in the process of farming, and that you shouldn't automatically assume all farmers are alike - in the same way that there are people who don't play for pp at all and still have all the insipid habits associated with farming. Bad habits and pp farming are correlated, but not necessarily causated. Playing for pp isn't inherently bad if you still practice the game mindfully and with strategic intent instead of just being a robot hell bent on doing nothing but cheesing the system.

IDK, maybe it's just that everyone else and I have different definitions as to what it means to be a farmer.
posted

SirOxorsid wrote:

There is such a thing as good practice and bad practice, with osu and pretty much everything. Good practice constitutes not only playing maps beyond farm maps but is also dependent on your habits. Good practice involves not raping the restart button as soon as you miss. Doing so is an example of bad practice, and is common practice of people who just care about pp and rank (e.g. farmers).
That is interesting that you say that, i don't think i agree.
I guesss we weren't able to see a clear example of a contrary, since most people who do that get shot down before something might actually happen. Though i guess they were lacking determination to stick to their playstyle to begin with. This game requires many many hours.

Philosofikal wrote:

IDK, maybe it's just that everyone else and I have different definitions as to what it means to be a farmer.
It's probably not just you. I'm pretty sure everyone has a different definition to it, as this , and a lot of the things in this game are very subjective.

Which is fine guess, but i don't think bad habits even existed before the thing known as farming was born, even though shortcomings in different playstyles have always been there.
posted
wow a pointless thread went philosophical
typical G&R
on topic : imo pp farming is the test of your current skillset to see how far you can go.
I always repeat the cycle of skill farming and pp farming
play maps that will improve my skill until i reach a certain point of satisfaction or boredom, and then i'll check out and see how far i can go in the pp system, and once i reach my upper limit in pp gain, i'll go back to get more skill again
so i don't think that pp farm is bad at all, since i use it as a source of motivation
but seriously, does relevant people seriously make fun of these stuffs these days?
im pretty sure only the newbies and people that's still living in 2012 still thinks that pp farming is truly bad
posted
Just play for fun, or find something else to do when you don't feel like playing.
posted
Think of farming like a progress check.

I play what I like whether it's bullshit 7* techmap or a simple 4* TV size, I only farm when my rival buddy surpass me in rank, I'll start a farming session to see how much pp I can get in a few days, I'll stop once I hit a wall, that's why my ranking graph isn't a gradual increase, cause 70% of the time I wouldn't be playing farm maps
posted

StephOsu wrote:

im pretty sure only the newbies and people that's still living in 2012 still thinks that pp farming is truly bad
yes, it's bad and you should die


me too
posted

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Think of farming like a progress check.

I play what I like whether it's bullshit 7* techmap or a simple 4* TV size, I only farm when my rival buddy surpass me in rank, I'll start a farming session to see how much pp I can get in a few days, I'll stop once I hit a wall, that's why my ranking graph isn't a gradual increase, cause 70% of the time I wouldn't be playing farm maps
oh shit we have the same line of thought we should be friends xd
posted
What about people who say play 5 maps they think will increase their skill and then play 1 "farm" map just to check their progress?
posted
Then they're fukin retarded to think playing 5 maps can see immediate improvement.

Then again they're probably 6 digit if they think that
posted
I meant like seeing improvement over 10 or 20 plays on that map because that would mean 50 or 100 plays on other maps
posted
I think it's more likely you'll see immediate improvement on those 5 maps more than anything, despite contrary belief, PP maps are the minority when compared to the entirety of downloadable maps, it's still very likely your improvement would not translate to pp maps, so it's still retarded.

The entire idea of "improvement map" is relative, it just so happens our current ranking system favor pp maps, you play "improvement maps" cause when you stop ranking, there's a pseudo skill ceiling you make up by the fact that you can no longer farm. What people don't realize it's that the skill ceiling improvement maps can push is limited, without pp to indicate that ceiling people will continue to plunder in improvement maps without realizing they've actually hit a wall, hence I do a farming session to push up the skill ceiling improvement maps can't push.
posted
Do top50 leaderboard!!!
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