Demetori - Fall of Fall ~ The Door Into Summer

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DT-sama
I'm neither a mapper nor a modder, so I'm just going to give my considerations on playability for me as a player, which can be thrown into the trash like the trash player I am. I want to optimize the map to give me as many pp as possible with as little effort as possible.
It is short, but quality over quantity.

01:04:032 (1,2,3,4,1) - these quintuples are pretty easy to miss, you could make them easier to hit by rotating a tiny bit more each (3,4) pair so that (2) flows more easily into (3) and (4) into (1). Ex. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7452370
That might ruin aesthetics a bit and it's not a big problem so you can easily ignore it.

01:06:532 (4) - this pointing outwards instead of towards the next quintuple is asking me to miss it, since it's in a slow section so I'm trying to get a hold of myself.

02:27:448 (2,3,4,5) - this looks VERY misleading and I had to misread it twice before reading it as a quadruple and even then I didn't understand it started on a blue tick. But I like it.

02:58:198 (5,1,2,3,4) - this is probably the biggest problem I have with the map.
The jump from 02:58:198 (5,1) - is very unintuitive and sudden, as every 1/2 gap between the quintuples right before this point had no movement whatsoever. The only time this pattern is broken it is with these triples 02:55:698 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - here, which makes it less of a problem as triples are easy, but 02:58:365 (1,2,3,4) - is very hard, and the next section makes it difficult to recover from a misread here at all, even with 02:58:698 (5,6,7,8,1) - this stack here.
You could try lowering the spacing like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7452457 but I'm not sure to what extent it'd fix the problem, really.

02:59:532 (1) - move a bit more to the right or do this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7452468 plz. Latter solution is better if you can fit it with the previous pattern.

05:08:254 (2,3,1) - I never noticed this till now. This is what bullying looks like. ;_;

Thanks for your map.
Alheak

DT-sama wrote:

I'm neither a mapper nor a modder, so I'm just going to give my considerations on playability for me as a player, which can be thrown into the trash like the trash player I am. I want to optimize the map to give me as many pp as possible with as little effort as possible.
It is short, but quality over quantity.

01:04:032 (1,2,3,4,1) - these quintuples are pretty easy to miss, you could make them easier to hit by rotating a tiny bit more each (3,4) pair so that (2) flows more easily into (3) and (4) into (1). Ex. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7452370
That might ruin aesthetics a bit and it's not a big problem so you can easily ignore it.
mhh, that's pretty weird, i have absolutely no problem doing this, i just consider it like a normal stream and it plays just fine 99% of the time, either players are overreading this or my own playstyle is too weird
i'm not a fan of the idea of removing it because of the aesthetic, but i changed the placement/spacing a little bit


02:27:448 (2,3,4,5) - this looks VERY misleading and I had to misread it twice before reading it as a quadruple and even then I didn't understand it started on a blue tick. But I like it. heh, i like it too, changed really a little bit hoping it's more obvious

05:08:254 (2,3,1) - I never noticed this till now. This is what bullying looks like. ;_; jsut mash tbh

Thanks for your map.
good luck with your pp farm!

and thanks for the mod

update
Topic Starter
GoldenWolf

DT-sama wrote:

I'm neither a mapper nor a modder, so I'm just going to give my considerations on playability for me as a player, which can be thrown into the trash like the trash player I am. I want to optimize the map to give me as many pp as possible with as little effort as possible.
It is short, but quality over quantity.

01:06:532 (4) - this pointing outwards instead of towards the next quintuple is asking me to miss it, since it's in a slow section so I'm trying to get a hold of myself. Does it really play different though? Even pointing inward doesn't seem to make a substantial difference, it does however look worse

02:58:198 (5,1,2,3,4) - this is probably the biggest problem I have with the map.
The jump from 02:58:198 (5,1) - is very unintuitive and sudden, as every 1/2 gap between the quintuples right before this point had no movement whatsoever. The only time this pattern is broken it is with these triples 02:55:698 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - here, which makes it less of a problem as triples are easy, but 02:58:365 (1,2,3,4) - is very hard, and the next section makes it difficult to recover from a misread here at all, even with 02:58:698 (5,6,7,8,1) - this stack here.
You could try lowering the spacing like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7452457 but I'm not sure to what extent it'd fix the problem, really. So it seems the diff spike was a tad too big, changed those 2 circles for sliders to make it much easier to 1) understand the jump and 2) to play and not being fucked over as the next section has some streamjumps

02:59:532 (1) - move a bit more to the right or do this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7452468 plz. Latter solution is better if you can fit it with the previous pattern. k

05:08:254 (2,3,1) - I never noticed this till now. This is what bullying looks like. ;_; I bet ya love it

Thanks for your map.
Thanks for your mod!
lazyboy007
AHOI!

Can't defeat counter-attack

So here's your free mod, enjoy it while it lasts :3

[General]

  1. Well nothing to say all files are good format and all :p


[Mapping]

  1. Personnally I find the intro to be quite bland. Plus one the 00:00:379 (1) - 1 combo sliders, the end note is a bit stronger than the slider head. I'm pretty certain there's more fitting and interesting ways to map this than what it's currently like. A bit of singletap doesn't hurt anyone. Plus you simply copy pasta'd it over to the entire intro which is a bit meh :p
  2. 03:01:198 (2,3,4,5) - I don't exactly understand the placement of these kicsliders. they play fine, but I don't hear any sound that need special emphasis and think a 7 stream should do this justice (maybe I'm wrong tho)
  3. If I understand this pattern correctly 03:06:532 (2,3,4,5,6) - this being the same notes as 03:05:865 (3,4) - should be mapped the same way (but maybe I missed something idk). Same 03:11:865 (2,3,4,5,6) - here. Because you used kicksliders/repeat sliders on the low notes and streams on the high notes except for those two streams which are placed on low notes. If there's a percussion you're following to justifiy this you should probably emphasize it by having it be a different stream shape than the guitar focused ones.
  4. 03:40:698 (1,1,2,3) - Very missleading to read. You could probably replace 1,2,3 by a repeat? would read nicer ^^
  5. 03:52:198 (1,2,3) - Do you even have a heart? How could one be so cruel :( Plays fine tho
  6. 05:08:254 (2,3,1) - ow
  7. The last part from 04:46:865 - to 05:06:865 - is a bit over the top imo although it's not much more intense than 00:21:532 - this part


[Hitsounds]

  1. 00:22:365 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - this pattern's snares are messed up
  2. 02:16:198 (5,6,7) - is soft on purpose here? it sounds off
  3. 03:28:615 - here there's also small patches of soft hs which sound off
  4. 03:34:198 (3) - Sounds better with a snare on the tail
  5. 04:37:198 (4) - same here


[Combo]

  • Nothing wrong c:


I'll show myself out now *lazy out*
Alheak

lazyboy007 wrote:

AHOI! woah hey

Can't defeat counter-attack

So here's your free mod, enjoy it while it lasts :3

  1. 03:52:198 (1,2,3) - Do you even have a heart? How could one be so cruel :( Plays fine tho plays fine tho - exactly
  2. 05:08:254 (2,3,1) - ow yep
  3. The last part from 04:46:865 - to 05:06:865 - is a bit over the top imo although it's not much more intense than 00:21:532 - this part ye collab stuff happens


I'll show myself out now *lazy out*
thanks!
Topic Starter
GoldenWolf

lazyboy007 wrote:

AHOI! arwhoo

  1. Personnally I find the intro to be quite bland. Plus one the 00:00:379 (1) - 1 combo sliders, the end note is a bit stronger than the slider head. I'm pretty certain there's more fitting and interesting ways to map this than what it's currently like. A bit of singletap doesn't hurt anyone. Plus you simply copy pasta'd it over to the entire intro which is a bit meh :p The goal here is repetition. I didn't use 1/2s because of 00:16:378 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - this. Anything else would break the repetition.
  2. 03:01:198 (2,3,4,5) - I don't exactly understand the placement of these kicsliders. they play fine, but I don't hear any sound that need special emphasis and think a 7 stream should do this justice (maybe I'm wrong tho) To emphasize the drums toms. I made the toms clickable at 03:01:282 (3,4) - here and here, the rest is to make for a more intuitive pattern and rhythm to play than having two consecutive 1/4 sliders on blue ticks.
  3. If I understand this pattern correctly 03:06:532 (2,3,4,5,6) - this being the same notes as 03:05:865 (3,4) - should be mapped the same way (but maybe I missed something idk). Same 03:11:865 (2,3,4,5,6) - here. Because you used kicksliders/repeat sliders on the low notes and streams on the high notes except for those two streams which are placed on low notes. If there's a percussion you're following to justifiy this you should probably emphasize it by having it be a different stream shape than the guitar focused ones. 03:06:532 (2,3,4,5,6) - Because this is a 2 beats long pattern, whereas others are 1 and a half long beat patterns. It is different. Also it leads into the next part which is stream heavy, and is a lower spacing than them, so it makes for a transition. Same goes for 03:09:365 (1,2,3,4) - where it transitions into the slider heavy part by using a much closer spaced stream.
  4. 03:40:698 (1,1,2,3) - Very missleading to read. You could probably replace 1,2,3 by a repeat? would read nicer ^^ I find it worse tbh, because it would a one repeat slider, exactly like the 1/3 one just before, except it would a 1/4 slider.. Also you'd be starting the stream on a blue tick at 03:41:282 (1) - too, which I find quite awkward.
  5. The last part from 04:46:865 - to 05:06:865 - is a bit over the top imo although it's not much more intense than 00:21:532 - this part It happens when two mappers have a quite different view over one part. It is more reading intense, but isn't really harder to actually play than the previous ones.


[Hitsounds]

  1. 00:22:365 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - this pattern's snares are messed up I blame ctrl+g being dumb.
  2. 02:16:198 (5,6,7) - is soft on purpose here? it sounds off Yup, because ghost snares notes on the blue ticks. I did mention it in a previous mod, but this section has a lot of them throughout, I mapped those specifically because they were the most audible ones, and I did like the transition into the next pattern/section that went with it.
  3. 03:28:615 - here there's also small patches of soft hs which sound off Heavily guitar focused part, as it's the solo. Guitar notes played without drum hits going with it have their hitnormal set on soft, to 1) not have weird af drum patterns, as it starts on a lot of blue ticks which would sound very random if I hitsounded it as a drum and 2) to not take away the focus on the guitar.
  4. 03:34:198 (3) - Sounds better with a snare on the tail oops
  5. 04:37:198 (4) - same here oops²


I'll show myself out now *lazy out*
Thanks for your mod!
Lasse
from m4m alheak requested

no idea about collab parts so lol

I'd love if these greys were a bit more differentiated, they look alright in the editor, but I think they are a bit too similar ingame for some reason which makes the 02:53:698 - part a bit painful with how "similar" approach cirle colors are http://lasse.s-ul.eu/ZX2q9F17 just make them a bit more different in brightness I think.

00:26:365 (1,2,3) - just a personal thing, but I think 1/8 snap on these and similar ones would be great to fit with the "short" guitar sounds, but current also seems okay. would also nicely seperate them more from things like 00:41:032 (4,5) - , similar in other parts you do these
00:57:032 (4,5,6) - spacing seems a bit too different from 00:54:365 (4,5,6) - considering how similar music is
01:04:198 (3,4) - think this would be nicer to hit if 3+4 were angled a bit differently. like ~15° clockwise maybe? http://lasse.s-ul.eu/s0sbW1kv
02:03:032 (1,2,3) - triple feel so weird here considering 02:02:948 -. just think a rhythm like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/YolyEAo7 would work better
02:10:365 (3,4) - any reason to suddenly have some overlapped 1/2 antijump? you dont really use them anywhere else, at least in this section except 02:17:698 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - which sound pretty different, so mapping for one differently would make the other thing stand out more too
02:27:032 (1,2) - I like this concept, but I think it doesnt really fit here with how strong guitar is on sliderend and drum roll starting there. why not just http://lasse.s-ul.eu/ZJUk1OlK ?
03:24:698 (2,3) - think it would be great to make this a 1/4 slider so the stream starts on the guitar
03:28:198 - with this click being on the lower pitch distorted guitar, skipping over that at 03:28:032 - feels really off, might be nice to make (1) a 1/2 slider. other similar ones work better cause the click after maps the other guitar
03:41:032 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5) - can you like, 4-4 combo this lol. the 1/3 repeat before, together with the 3 note combo here make it so easy to mistake for 1/3
04:08:615 (2,3) - the other ones seemed kinda alright, but this 1/4 jump really looks like it should be toned down a bit lol
04:18:532 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - really minor but would be great if you cleaned these up a bit on spots like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/pNHNXOix the near overlapping spacing makes the inconsistencies really noticeable
05:08:254 (2,3,1) - as much as I love putting 1/6 myself, suddenly mapping them clickable in a 1/4 filled section without ever introducing them right at the end of the map is pretty tilting

some really nice 1/4 concepts
[]

really like this map, let me know when it's ready
Topic Starter
GoldenWolf

Lasse wrote:

from m4m alheak requested

no idea about collab parts so lol

I'd love if these greys were a bit more differentiated, they look alright in the editor, but I think they are a bit too similar ingame for some reason which makes the 02:53:698 - part a bit painful with how "similar" approach cirle colors are http://lasse.s-ul.eu/ZX2q9F17 just make them a bit more different in brightness I think. Alright, made them easier to distinguish from each other (luminosity 120-200 should be enough I think)

00:26:365 (1,2,3) - just a personal thing, but I think 1/8 snap on these and similar ones would be great to fit with the "short" guitar sounds, but current also seems okay. would also nicely seperate them more from things like 00:41:032 (4,5) - , similar in other parts you do these I did consider that, but sometimes they would come with some 1/4 drums such as 00:37:032 (1) - here, and considering how drum-heavy the hitsounding is it would fit well enough. Also increasing the spaced a bit for the other sliders you mentionned.
02:03:032 (1,2,3) - triple feel so weird here considering 02:02:948 -. just think a rhythm like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/YolyEAo7 would work better Mhhh I guess since the first ghost note is more audible, so that makes sense
02:10:365 (3,4) - any reason to suddenly have some overlapped 1/2 antijump? you dont really use them anywhere else, at least in this section except 02:17:698 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - which sound pretty different, so mapping for one differently would make the other thing stand out more too wow lol idk how that slider got there but it was supposed to be like this lol
03:41:032 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5) - can you like, 4-4 combo this lol. the 1/3 repeat before, together with the 3 note combo here make it so easy to mistake for 1/3 Ehhh I don't think it properly emphasize the guitar's accents, but since so many ppl are pointing this out I guess I should change it eh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
04:18:532 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - really minor but would be great if you cleaned these up a bit on spots like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/pNHNXOix the near overlapping spacing makes the inconsistencies really noticeable aight

some really nice 1/4 concepts
[]

really like this map, let me know when it's ready
Thank you for your mod! gonna grab alheak to get on it
Alheak

Lasse wrote:

from m4m alheak requested

00:57:032 (4,5,6) - spacing seems a bit too different from 00:54:365 (4,5,6) - considering how similar music is fixed
01:04:198 (3,4) - think this would be nicer to hit if 3+4 were angled a bit differently. like ~15° clockwise maybe? http://lasse.s-ul.eu/s0sbW1kv okay
02:27:032 (1,2) - I like this concept, but I think it doesnt really fit here with how strong guitar is on sliderend and drum roll starting there. why not just http://lasse.s-ul.eu/ZJUk1OlK ? that's indeed better
03:24:698 (2,3) - think it would be great to make this a 1/4 slider so the stream starts on the guitar i believe it's better like this for consistency with the previous patterns + the change from stack to DS is enough to separate the two and gives off a nice effect
03:28:198 - with this click being on the lower pitch distorted guitar, skipping over that at 03:28:032 - feels really off, might be nice to make (1) a 1/2 slider. other similar ones work better cause the click after maps the other guitar alright
04:08:615 (2,3) - the other ones seemed kinda alright, but this 1/4 jump really looks like it should be toned down a bit lol just a bit then
05:08:254 (2,3,1) - as much as I love putting 1/6 myself, suddenly mapping them clickable in a 1/4 filled section without ever introducing them right at the end of the map is pretty tilting changed

some really nice 1/4 concepts
[]

really like this map, let me know when it's ready
thank you!
Lasse
more accurate source (=name of the actual game) is preferred now for touhou stuff, so would be good to change it to this:
東方風神録 ~ Mountain of Faith.
weird spacing around the ~ is intentional, see http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/html/th10top.html

also adjust tags accordingly


will try to check the other things tomorrow
Lasse
http://lasse.s-ul.eu/f8YJKBXw make sure these are either used or delete them
took a quick look over the timing panel and it looked like set 6 and 8 weren't used at all?

you can also remove "風神録" and "Mountain of Faith" from tags cause they are in source already

everything else should be fine now
Topic Starter
GoldenWolf
Not sure why 6 & 8 are back when I deleted them like 3 days ago lol

all should be fine now
Lasse
#1
Alheak
i never get tired of seeing those bubbles, thanks Lasse
Stjpa
sadly have to bubble pop because of a wrong snapped slider :(

  1. 00:43:365 (2) - u might want to nc it because right now it can be read like a kickslider considering how much faster (1) is atm and they are overlapping, same goes for the exact same patterns later on
  2. 00:52:032 (1) - feels super boring with that slidershape, are u sure u dont wanna use something more fancy?
  3. 01:08:448 (2) - feels like the sliderhead is mapped to nothing because the actual attack point of the guitar is on the red tick, at least it felt a lot more intuitive when i was testing it out
  4. 02:16:198 (5,6,7) - whats the purpose of this pattern? when playing its really noticable that its mapped to nothing, and im pretty sure u can just use another cool pattern here because the polarity here is unusual
  5. 02:18:698 (1,1) - playing with slider leniency and streams at other places but not doing it here is kinda counter-intuitive if u ask me, u can easily space this one these a little more apart while still making the 1/4 to 1/3 rhythm transition readable
  6. 02:53:615 (9,1) - imo the difference between this gap and the other 1/2 gaps isnt clear enough because of the spacing being quite similar and with the nc being there its even harder to read because the 1/2 gaps dont get complimented anymore
  7. 03:27:865 (1,2) - even though the pattern is somewhat unique i dont think its enough to tell the player that the sv of the first slider is much higher than of the second, especially since you had enough other patterns that were overlapping, maybe use another nc here or something
  8. 03:40:698 (1) - the third guitar sound is definitely on the blue tick and not on the 1/3 one
  9. 04:13:365 (5) - tbh i wonder if this one should get ncd or not so its the gap is more clear, can be misread as 1/2 since u used pretty small 1/2 gaps before already


call me back after everything is done
Alheak

Stjpa wrote:

sadly have to bubble pop because of a wrong snapped slider :(

  1. 00:52:032 (1) - feels super boring with that slidershape, are u sure u dont wanna use something more fancy? alright
  2. 03:27:865 (1,2) - even though the pattern is somewhat unique i dont think its enough to tell the player that the sv of the first slider is much higher than of the second, especially since you had enough other patterns that were overlapping, maybe use another nc here or something yeah, changed

call me back after everything is done
thank you, made some small aesthetic changes as well
Topic Starter
GoldenWolf

Stjpa wrote:

sadly have to bubble pop because of a wrong snapped slider :(

  1. 00:43:365 (2) - u might want to nc it because right now it can be read like a kickslider considering how much faster (1) is atm and they are overlapping, same goes for the exact same patterns later on a 1/4 slider at this speed is about 2/3 of the length of that slow slider, that's quite the huge misread lol, also no playtesters have been fooled that way on this slider so far so no need to spam nc
  2. 01:08:448 (2) - feels like the sliderhead is mapped to nothing because the actual attack point of the guitar is on the red tick, at least it felt a lot more intuitive when i was testing it out There is a note starting on the blue tick. So basically, the 2 notes played at 01:08:198 (1) - are also played at 01:08:448 (2) - except twice as fast.
  3. 02:16:198 (5,6,7) - whats the purpose of this pattern? when playing its really noticable that its mapped to nothing, and im pretty sure u can just use another cool pattern here because the polarity here is unusual they are mapped on ghost snare notes, but as I said before I wasn't sure if it was that good of an idea lol, probably better to change it I guess
  4. 02:18:698 (1,1) - playing with slider leniency and streams at other places but not doing it here is kinda counter-intuitive if u ask me, u can easily space this one these a little more apart while still making the 1/4 to 1/3 rhythm transition readable oke
  5. 02:53:615 (9,1) - imo the difference between this gap and the other 1/2 gaps isnt clear enough because of the spacing being quite similar and with the nc being there its even harder to read because the 1/2 gaps dont get complimented anymore fixed by using a kick slider on the previous stream
  6. 03:40:698 (1) - the third guitar sound is definitely on the blue tick and not on the 1/3 one Because it is a mistime by the guitarist. He did mean to play those 3 notes as 8th notes triplets, and there are 3 notes total in that beat. Just because the last one is slightly late doesn't mean it is any good idea to map it as a 16th note, that would not only break the pattern (doesn't matter) but it would break the rhythm and make it super unintuitive to play (actually matters a lot). If you wanna nitpick, 03:41:448 (2,3) - this is also off and I should map it as a 1/6 double too? It doesn't make much sense. The way it's currently mapped makes for a much more intuitive way to play it, but is also accurate to what the guitarist wanted to play. It's a <20ms mistime in the middle of a stream that isn't noticeable if you don't slow it down to 25%. For all of these reasons, I do strongly believe that this should stay as a reverse 1/3 slider.


call me back after everything is done
tnaks 4 ur moddu!
Stjpa
Discussed 03:40:698 (1) - in IRC, it's properly snapped now

#1
Lasse
2
MrSergio
seriously, you guys bubble good stuff and don't even tell me :<


Testplayed both nomod and HR and you can easily pass even the last spinner (280 RPM and you still gain HP, with HR, ROFL)

Contacted GoWo and Alheak in game and we fixed a couple of hitsounds + we moved a circle to make a pattern more readable

Call me tomorrow for qualification~
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