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[Rule Change] Guest Mapper should use their osu! username

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Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
There's no need to change an entire rule to address an issue that can be fixed during the modding process lmao. I'm voicing what I think about GD'ers using their osu! username and only their osu username, an issue which is obviously pertinent enough for you to use as the title of your request lol. Call it an extension of the previous discussion (which also ended in no change) if you want.

Some maps like Supermarket's Easy just slipped through the ranking process. Their occurrence are rare, I can only think of 2 examples of this kind of misleading GD name making it to ranked. You trying to push this rule forward in order to prevent Supermarkets/r1ngochan's from being ranked ends up creating more issues that I've already brought up in my previous post. When you want a rule to change, you also have to consider what else changes due to your rule. What I mentioned may not be core to what you want to discuss, but it's still just as important, i just hope you are able to see that.
Pawsu
osu! Alumni
5,213 posts
Joined February 2013
Pawsu

Gabe wrote:

As long as their real username is written in the tags and in the beatmap's page, it seems okay to me.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

Pawsu wrote:

Gabe wrote:

As long as their real username is written in the tags and in the beatmap's page, it seems okay to me.
Inb4, my first Guestdifficulty will be called "Economypopori's Normal".
The second one "Endapleb's Hard".
And the third "Overflow's Extra".
I think I got some more nicknames in my pocket...
ZiRoX
Elite Mapper
1,052 posts
Joined November 2009
ZiRoX
I'm of the idea that if someone wants to use a different name, he/she is voluntarily accepting it will be harder to track who is the mapper of his/her diff. However, there should still be a limit as to what is allowed and what not (Supermarket being totally stupid, there's no other way to call it), but since setting a hard limit is so hard, it should be handled on a case-by-case basis.
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

Endaris wrote:

Pawsu wrote:

Inb4, my first Guestdifficulty will be called "Economypopori's Normal".
The second one "Endapleb's Hard".
And the third "Overflow's Extra".
I think I got some more nicknames in my pocket...
pretty sure the ranking process will be able to track people doing stupid stuff. if maps like supermarket got through, that's because no one cared about it in the past. now that the issue has been raised, I don't think the QAT will let more stupid stuff go through. If you're legitimately doing it for some reason, it's fine. If it becomes obvious that you're trying to meme, then it will not get ranked. I hope.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Well, BD, there's this and from the looks it seems like people can call their GDs whatever they want as long as the difficulty creator is properly creditted in the beatmap description.
Therefore - while it may seem stupid - there would be no particular reason to change these difficulty names. I actually have economypopori as a chat-highlight for over a year now. Looks more than legit to me using it as a guest difficulty prefix as it is now...

tl;dr: People care and it gets through.
Last edited by Endaris , edited 1 time in total.
Qiyana
1,590 posts
Joined April 2014
Qiyana
Get ready for a speech. TL;DR


I'm kind of against this idea but its probably not just me too. People can be known as many things and may not want to go with something like Fudkiduf's.

For example, my first username was dylanla12 (May sound familiar to some people.) I did GD's and went by Dylan's ---. Then I changed my name to Dyl-Byl. I still use Dylan's. Some people like to use their iconic nicknames and stuff. Like for example, who would want to go with something like dylanla12's or Ajskewjsjhfhsjd's. Obviously nobody except some hippie-dude.

I also know some people that don't use their real usernames: MkGuh uses Mk's. Blue Dragon sometime uses Nogard. - Magic Bomb - usually uses MBomb's.

As a result, it would probably end up with people not even wanting to make GDs just because of the names. And that could happen.

P.S. I took up public speaking in grade 4 and 5.
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
[Nardoxyribonucleic's Inner Oni] just became a thing.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,535 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
I think it is still relevant to just keep the naming to something synonymous to names you used. Having a name that is quite far off with what you are called makes it more likely you use something that someone else uses as well, which limits others if people start to use multiple non-related names Just like there really is someone called supermarket. Spare a thought for them if they ever remotely decide to map?

Don't know if what I said got my point across, but basically using too many variations for each person, it takes those variations out of the equation for other players, especially if those names are more similar to their actual in game name used
Last edited by neonat , edited 1 time in total.
Flower
1,723 posts
Joined August 2011
Flower
That's why we should encourage osz2. It is still not a perfect solution to use mappers' current usernames as difficulty names.
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
why does this matter?

as said before, if someone cares enough to check out the gder, then they would care enough to check the map description

we dont need to be wasting time on such a minor issue.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

Kibbleru wrote:

we dont need to be wasting time on such a minor issue.
Once the rule is set we will be wasting much less time on the topic though because there won't be countless discussions about le maymay GD names.

This reminds me that you could name your own difficulties on your own set in the same way as long as you credit yourself in the beatmap description.
Uses the exact same way of obfuscating the mapper for the sake of living out the big mapper freedom therefore it should be fine too.
And it would be a shame to not live out that mapper freedom to its fullest after everyone here fought for it with all their might.

/edit: yay, YomiFart's Hard just got qualified. Wonder what is next.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Below it's just my personal opinion.

--

I don't see this at all, first of all - it looks more like creating another pointless thing to get people eyes out of let's say more important problems, which i see as limiting creativity, limiting common sense over mapping and songs and forcing artificial meta about "how map should look" eg. sliders like that, circles like that, etc. For me it looks like someone (say hi to Loctav / trot / whoever else is responsible for this) really wants to force something what will in longer term - not just deny players from mapping for ranking but make them don't even care about mapping for it since it will be notpoint at all for this - that's how works forcing limitations.

About the topic:

Now, imagine that random player named for example "qwerty12345asdffgg" will create a beautyfull GD for a map, fully rankable, with big respect from the community but - do you think that name of difficulty like "qwerty12345asdffgg's Insane" looks nice and like recently some people try to say "professional? Hell no, it looks more like a joke.

Sam: Hey bro, i got FC on qwerty12345asdffgg's Insane
Robert: what? *confused face*

Speaking about nicknames: Personally, i don't really care how is diff named, i like way more custom names tan [nickname]'s [difficulty] - it doesn't sound like a part of a map, it doesnt express what map is presenting. If a mapper decide to name it like that, his choice, if he decide to use pen name, it's also his right since he is a creator of an art and he have right to name it as a [pen name]'s [difficulty].
CRN as caren_sk - fine for me, right now i cannot imagine playing a map named "caren_sk's blablabla", just please, CRN is well known mapper. Same goes for 0108 as a val0108. Whenever i see Rin, i know i am playing a diff made by Natsune Rin and literally i don't see any point of making this look like "Natsune Rin's Insane".

Placing information who mapped a diff in description is enough in my opinion - allowing custom difficulty names in full spread as far as it express difficulty of a map.
I am against forcing nicknames and difficulty names since it's just forcing an artificial problem with "might look professional" but at the end will look just stupid and amusing.
Mekki
Mekki
I don't get this idea, it seems pretty unnecessary, like, I don't like to use MkGuh's on my GDs cuz imo is pretty bad, so I use Mk that's nice and mostly all my friends call me like that. Anyways, there is much more mappers that don't like to use their nicknames on GDs usually cuz it's pretty long and weird etc. So I don't agree with this rule :l
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those

Spotty wrote:

So if my name is xxSasuke98xZz, I should write the name like that?
YES. You chose your alias because that's what you wanted to be called. Why would you select a username that you don't want other people calling you by?
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,535 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
Nobody here would be too concerned honestly, as those who post here already established themselves and don't really have to worry about having their name they want to use taken away. But if someone who joins in later on finds out that even his/her actual IGN had been used for GD naming, just because anyone can freely name the difficulties whatever they want, they would feel weird to use it as well. Then you really have to go to the description just to see if that xxx name used in the difficulty really made that difficulty, or someone else just randomly used it.

I mean sure, supermarket seems to be a dead account, but you never know when someone really uses it once again, or the person comes back and decides to map, and this would apply to any other subsequent 'nicknames' far off the IGN the person currently uses.

Restricting the use of only their full username would be harsh, but I believe some control and restraint should be exercised to ensure no ridiculous naming occurs, like a different name for every GD for one mapper, or at least some semblance to their username or something synonymous at the very least, to their current username
Last edited by neonat , edited 1 time in total.
Mekki
Mekki

neonat wrote:

Restricting the use of only their full username would be harsh, but I believe some control and restraint should be exercised to ensure no ridiculous naming occurs, like a different name for ever GD for one mapper, or at least some semblance to their username or something synonymous at the very least, to their current username
Completely indeed
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

neonat wrote:

Restricting the use of only their full username would be harsh, but I believe some control and restraint should be exercised to ensure no ridiculous naming occurs, like a different name for ever GD for one mapper, or at least some semblance to their username or something synonymous at the very least, to their current username
This is exactly what I've been proposing and people still want only the exact mapper's name to be allowed.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Restricting the use of only their full username would be harsh, but I believe some control and restraint should be exercised to ensure no ridiculous naming occurs, like a different name for ever GD for one mapper, or at least some semblance to their username or something synonymous at the very least, to their current username
That's nicely said. To be honest control over not taking active player exact name is right.

people still want only the exact mapper's name to be allowed.
I think nobody went into situation where there can be situation with 2/3 mappers named by same name but written in different way (ASCII characters etc) or very simillar once will make a problem. This is cleary theoretical but can happend.
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius
To be honest, there was a small case about this before. Reiji-RJ used "RJ's Hard" as a difficulty name, which was actually the same thing RandomJibberish used to put. There wasn't really much of an issue about it however, no one ever actually complained about it (besides me) so I just don't see how this could be an issue.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Sorry, spelled it wrong way.

I mean that if there are 2-3 theoretically same users who make a GD, there will be 2-3 GD with almost same name - that's why forcing exact username is in my opinion bad idea.
Blue Dragon = Blue Dragon's [diff]
BIue Dragon = BIue Dragon's [diff]
For me it looks very weird. Ingame font render "I" like "l" so it wouldn't be any difference. Just fast example.
Pen names gives creator of art a unique identity and that's why people use it.
This case what you said BD is weird, i don't think that Reiji knew about other guy.
xxdeathx
2,661 posts
Joined July 2013
xxdeathx
I'm fine with any reasonable (read: case-by-case) abbreviation of the mapper's current or past names (BD, Skystar, Amamiya Momoko, Kibb, Cloud, Gu, lfj, to name a few), but you really do have to question the use of names like Quib or Kibboo...
Sonnyc
7,761 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
Then what about cases where GD mapper or whoever doesn't prefers adding "mapper's" [Difficulty]? Will it be still fine then not to add anything?

Actually from this view, adding at least a random username to indicate that this is a GD and not made by the creator would rather benefit than having nothing at all.

Though using something inidicating the actual GD mapper's username might be the best lol
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,535 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
The "mapper's name" [difficulty] was in the first place there so that people can immediately tell that it was done by another person other than the beatmap owner, in a way to show the acknowledgement of someone else playing a part in making that. If the GDer does not really want to indicate as such, I think it is fine as a choice he/she can make, to remain more obscure. Of course credit has to be given, but that would be done in the description.

This is why it would be odd to be using very odd names that would not immediately indicate the person who made the GD and is just used at random. It actually becomes like a custom name if it's used once-off (maybe? sort of, I don't know, but it would still seem striking). Nice to see people here too stress that some reasonable and sensible names be used.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

neonat wrote:

It actually becomes like a custom name if it's used once-off (maybe? sort of, I don't know, but it would still seem striking).
yey, someone understood my main reason for opening the first thread.
Custom difficulty names are only allowed for the highest diff in a set.
Doing GDs effectively circumvents this rule with the current state of things because you can put whatever as long as you also put the difficulty indicating keyword.
HootOwlStar
765 posts
Joined May 2014
HootOwlStar
While the ranked maps have no way to be fixed the problem unless cramming a lot of efforts by changing the names one by one, the issue still can be focused for the sake of future maps.

Actually fixing the name/abbreviation used in diff names might be better in my opinion.

It is more effective to let the mappers think about how they wanted to be clarified in their diffs instead of just fixing them to use their profile names. No matter the mappers decide to use their profile names or create a relatable one for diff naming eg. abbreviation, nicknames or whatever names they wanted to be recognised with in mapping, they have the rights to make their own decisions. Some people decided to make another name for difficulty naming to covert their profile more and avoid too much recognization so let them be. Some just think using the specific name is cooler in difficulty naming so let them be too. No matter they want to be recognised "Supermarket" or "meme king", it's their choice and no one should have the rights to control.

Of course allowing abbreviations and stuff will cause the misuse of the naming power, so it should be like players are given chance to make any names for their first ranked GD and encourage them to fix the name used for the latter mapping projects. Sth like if one used ABC's [diff] for their first ranked GD then the ABC name clarification should be fixed and other GDs should be named like ABC's [diff]. It still provides the chance for a mapper to enjoy freedom // their another mapper identity like one mapper could have dual identities which sounds like mappers' special rights lo that's not the point :/ and avoid the mappers from using various names just because iTS A PRANK or sth like that

Name crashing can be avoided if research is done properly and sufficiently eg. check whether the abbreviation is exactly others' profile names + the abbreviation is used by other mappers in difficulty naming.

Recognization of mappers shouldn't be controlled by a third party. One have the rights to make decision whether oneself wants to be known or keep on hiding their profile identity.

Guest Mappers should fix their name clarifications, which is set in their first ranked Guest Difficulty, in the difficulty naming of their latter Guest Difficulties. This is to ensure mappers for not overcreating various names for a single identity and to avoid confusion in identification of mappers for community members.
A mapper should not use name clarifications that have been used by another mapper or that it is exactly the profile name of another community member. Researches should be done too before applying names to ensure the prevention of identity crashing.
I think the above will do the trick more.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Forcing people to do a GD-name search before they can first do a GD?
That's even more stupid than what we got now(aka full chaos).
There are no efficient searchtools for that stuff and considering that some people use abbreviations with a design that it could easily be someone else's full nickname it looks kind of ridiculous to me to force someone else to stray away from his original nickname.
Mao
Elite Mapper II
2,963 posts
Joined December 2012
Mao
The criteria group is currently working on a solution for this proposal. We came up with a proposal that allows guest mappers to add their username to the tags of the specific difficulty that they have mapped. It might not work from a technical perspective though (might mess up web search). If that does apply, we have to proposed another rule.
Feel free to leave any input here.
Sonnyc
7,761 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc

Mao wrote:

The criteria council is currently working on a solution for this proposal. We came up with a proposal that allows guest mappers to add their username to the tags of the specific difficulty that they have mapped. It might not work from a technical perspective though (might mess up web search). If that does apply, we have to proposed another rule.
Feel free to leave any input here.
Does that mean it's fine to have inconsistent cross-difficulty tags..?
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
Not yet, wait until we confirm that with the devs. It would be the best solution though.
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius
I remember that with osz2 it would be possible to have the guest diff maker in the "Mapper" field for only their difficulty. huh, i guess that's not going to happen anymore with the lack of osz2 work, but good to know a similar solution can possibly be implemented
BoberOfDarkness
1,061 posts
Joined October 2013
BoberOfDarkness
BoberOfDarkness's Overdose

Seems nice.

I always use "Bodom" instead my username to make it shorter 3 times, mappers use my username in the maps description. I don't see the how it would work, everyone can change their nicks. Well it is nonsense for me.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
People can just look in the map description if they are not familiar with nicknames or abbreviations. What is the problem?
Mao
Elite Mapper II
2,963 posts
Joined December 2012
Mao

B1rd wrote:

People can just look in the map description if they are not familiar with nicknames or abbreviations. What is the problem?
Than it would have to be a rule to put mapper names into the map's description and also you would not be able to search for the specific difficulty ingame.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
I thought it was already a rule to include GD usernames in tags, meaning you could always find their contributions regardless of whether you know their alias?
Mao
Elite Mapper II
2,963 posts
Joined December 2012
Mao
It is not possible to add the guest mapper to their specific difficulty's tags yet though.
J1NX1337
248 posts
Joined February 2014
J1NX1337
I think it's fine if merely a rule is added for BNs and the QAT to check GD names and mapset tags before ranking to ensure that they're not too misleading or inappropriate, which can be done case specifically. I really don't like the idea of forcing people to use their actual username for GDs. In my case, I think people would vastly prefer "Jinx's <Diff>" over "J1NX1337's <Diff>" as "Jinx" is what people commonly use to refer to me lol

However if a GD name is deemed too misleading or confusing, this could be compensated by including a list of diff creators in the mapset's description. Though I still think silly meme names like Supermarket's Easy should be dropped, since at that point it just gets too inappropriate and confusing imo and clearly the purpose of doing it isn't genuine like abbreviating your own name, but merely to meme.
- Milhofo -
683 posts
Joined February 2014
- Milhofo -

Mao wrote:

It is not possible to add the guest mapper to their specific difficulty's tags yet though.
Don't we have to add guest mappers to the tags of every difficulty in a set anyway? Tags have to be the same in every difficulty right? I might be missing something with the recent changes though.

But like neonat mentioned, using random GD names can have consequences. There might be players with the name someone picked for a GD as a username (active or not). And even if that user doesn't exist yet, there's always the possibility that it is created (diff names won't change username availability), what if that new player becomes a mapper in the future?

Diff names should at least have some visible connection to the mapper's username, just so a smaller amount of possible usernames gets "taken" by GD names.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo

- Milhofo - wrote:

Don't we have to add guest mappers to the tags of every difficulty in a set anyway? Tags have to be the same in every difficulty right? I might be missing something with the recent changes though.
Yes, that is true.
But that is exactly what we want to change. Adding difficulty-specific tags would make much more sense for ingame search, so one problem would already been solved. However, we need to confirm this with the devs first, because having inconsistent tags might mess up web search.

An alternative (or maybe they can work together) is to allow abbreviations as well as names related to the user (for example "Skystar's" when they were named "Amamiya Yuka"). However, the 'related' is pretty ambiguous and people could come up with the weirdest reasons why their meme is related to their username.

In any case, the Ranking Criteria Group will set a new rule proposal up for discussion once we talked to the devs.
riffy
osu! Alumni
8,061 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy
I completely support the idea posted in the first post.

Might as well think of something for the collabs. I am getting pretty sick and tired of guessing names of the mappers when I play stuff. Either <Name1 & Name2's Difficulty> or <Collab Difficulty>. Some players will be hopelessly looking for mysterious mappers like Deperari, BakaCI, and so on. Needless to say, <Kygerphyxversible's Advanced> or <Pantsu's Hard> look random and cannot be taken seriously in any way.
Crystal
Former osu!catch Champion: 2018
1,123 posts
Joined June 2012
Crystal
SPOILER



If we are forced to use the exact username as guest difficulty name I guess it would be even more confusing to distinguish CLSW's CtB maps and my CtB maps (Xingxing's NM mentioned above is made by me in order to tell that it is not made by CLSW).
Such cases should be taken into consideration before this is made a rule, imo.
Nakano Itsuki
1,218 posts
Joined July 2014
Nakano Itsuki
Can't say I'm entirely in favour of the idea.

Yes, I do agree that absurd nicknames should not be used, but what if a mapper, right from the beginning of mapping, has used a nickname, or else, an abbreviation that most of the community already associate with?

clsw -> crystal
chaoslitz -> chaos/chaoz

in fact, these are so well known for some time already, or, the nickname is simply just an abbreviation of a known nickname.
I just dont see the problem for these.

also a bit offtopic, but why are we arguing over these useless parts of mapping when we should be putting full focus on the actual map quality itself?
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

Mao wrote:

B1rd wrote:

People can just look in the map description if they are not familiar with nicknames or abbreviations. What is the problem?
Than it would have to be a rule to put mapper names into the map's description and also you would not be able to search for the specific difficulty ingame.
Rules: ideas so good they must be enforced!

This might shock you, but sometimes people can do common sense things even without rules making them.

If there is an unintuitive nickname, or any unholy abomination of names fused together, generally it will be put in the map description. Even if it's not, you can work it out from looking at the tags/thread. There is not sufficient need or justification to make this into an absolute rule, and it will destroy creative and flavourful diff names and turn them into boring descriptions.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,535 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat

B1rd wrote:

This might shock you, but sometimes people can do common sense things even without rules making them.
Don't bet on it

There will always be the bunch who will refuse to budge if it's not written somewhere
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

neonat wrote:

Don't bet on it

There will always be the bunch who will refuse to budge if it's not written somewhere
I think this phenomenon is known as 'free will', or something.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,535 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat

B1rd wrote:

neonat wrote:

Don't bet on it

There will always be the bunch who will refuse to budge if it's not written somewhere
I think this phenomenon is known as 'free will', or something.
So we have to prevent it anyway right? Free will or not, that's what the rules are for
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

B1rd wrote:

neonat wrote:

Don't bet on it

There will always be the bunch who will refuse to budge if it's not written somewhere
I think this phenomenon is known as dunning–kruger effect, or something.
ftfy
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

Sieg wrote:

B1rd wrote:

I think this phenomenon is known as dunning–kruger effect, or something.
ftfy
You're right, we should all be governed by a bunch of intellectually superior elites, they know what's best for us!

neonat wrote:

So we have to prevent it anyway right? Free will or not, that's what the rules are for
Yep, we gotta repress that free will at all costs!
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,535 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat

StarrStyx wrote:

also a bit offtopic, but why are we arguing over these useless parts of mapping when we should be putting full focus on the actual map quality itself?
Little things are still some thing, and every little one would eventually add up. It should not be shoved aside just because it may seem minor. It can lead to various things, such as overlapping identities and confusing names. This doesn't mean actual map quality is being overlooked, this is just another matter to discuss.

You already mentioned about Crystal and CLSW having similar ways of naming, now if it continued and more abbreviations are used, there would be more conflicting ones no?

B1rd wrote:

Yep, we gotta repress that free will at all costs!
How amusing
-Atri-
3,049 posts
Joined March 2013
-Atri-
This is should bring that even a certain mapper who changed their names, but still prefer using old names as GD

For example:
Kawaiwkyik (Currently Rizia) -> wkyik
Amamiya Yuko (Currently Skystar, but also named as Skystar when he first joined) -> Skystar

Then are they should be counted as "Nickname" or not? I think that should be make sense using them.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete. I will send a PM to the author of the topic that encourages him to bring it up to one of the council members.
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