deleted it by raiden's veto_yu68 wrote:
update: added 1/8 doublets at 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - based on some people's post.
deleted it by raiden's veto_yu68 wrote:
update: added 1/8 doublets at 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - based on some people's post.
Thanks mod :3Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:
Here is the follow-through mod for the whole set after the heated discussion.
- [Futsuu]
- 01:12:300 - consider adding k here to make this part more interesting to play ? This would also result in a better spread with Muzukashii. added
- [Muzukashii]
- 00:49:512 - maybe add d here to cohere with the pattern length at 00:44:609 (2,1,2,3,1,2,1) - ? added
- [Oni]
- 00:24:849 (1,1) - swapping these notes to k d would help reflect the pitch decrease of piano there. changed only 00:24:849 (1) - to k in order to emphasize 00:25:137 -
- 00:33:070 (1) - changing this note to d would fit the sudden pitch drop well. i would keep in order to make ease of playing next 1/4
- 01:14:175 (2,3,4,5,1,1,2,3) - similar to 00:24:849 - , maybe try k d k k d d k k here ? changed
- [Virtuoso]
After some further considerations, I think you may keep the 1/8 doublets to decorate the scattered background piano although there exists possible alternatives like consecutive 1/2 big notes or longer 1/4 streams.You may call me back after that~
- 00:33:070 (300,301) - similar to Oni, you may change both notes to d with respect to the pitch of piano. same as oni, i'd keep it for ease of playing
- 00:56:868 - this note could be k to serve as an increase in kat density starting from 00:54:272 - . It would be less repetitive compared to 00:55:570 (512,513,514,515,516,517) - as well. changed
- 01:00:089 (544) - maybe delete this note as mentioned in Ono's post ? This would emphasize the cymbals occurring at 00:59:897 (543,545) - nicely. considering the flow, i think it's better to follow the piano rather than the cymbal (since 00:58:383 (531,532) - 00:59:248 (538,539) - etc are following piano)
Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:
- [maziari's Hell Oni]
- 00:15:258 - pattern inconsistency with 00:39:488 -
>changed 00:39:488: to same rhythm as 00:15:258: .- 00:25:570 (193,194,195,196) - I think this 1/6 pattern is really questionable as the background piano is clearly 1/4. Please consider replacing this with 1/4 kdk so that the piano could be followed in a more appropriate way.
>Surely each sound is 1/4, but if listen as a continuous sound, this sounds like a glissando. So to express it, 1/6 is necessary imo.- 01:10:713 (536,537,538,539,540,541,542,543,544) - similar to ^ , replacing these 1/6 notes with 1/4 kkd would be fine here.
>01:11:867: ~ is climax part, so I raised before there density the most intelligent means of excitement, also to distinguish the rhythm with 01:11:434 (549,550,551,552,553,554,555,556,557,558,559):, I think this 1/6 is necessary.- From 01:42:735 to 01:49:658 - would you mind justifying the use of 1/2 + 1/4 patterns in this session ? I think they should be mapped with 1/3 ones to respect the background music.
>In this difficulty, I picked up sound percussion rhythm mainly. This is consistent. So suddenly picking up the sound of a only piano by ignoring the percussion rhythm is unnatural imo. Also since the flow to here has been raised by the percussion rhythm, so connecting percussion rhythm is natural.
osu file format v14
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Thanks for the mod ^^Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:
Here is the follow-through mod for the whole set after the heated discussion.
- [Vulkin's Kantan]
You may call me back after that~
- 00:42:734 and 00:43:022 - consider adding k here for a more balanced spread ? Currently its gap with Futsuu is rather big due to the dense 1/1 arrangements in Futsuu. Added
- 00:45:041 (62) - you may move this note to 00:44:464 - and change to d if you apply ^ for pattern variety. Then you can add finish at 00:45:331 (63) - for better emphasis.Changed, although i changed some previous notes, because although i like variety, note position consistency is something that i would like for it to remain.
- 00:47:349 and 00:47:637 - same as 00:42:734 - ^
- 00:49:657 (72) - similar to 00:45:041 (62) - , you may move this note to 00:49:080 - and add finish at 00:49:946 (73) - Done
- 01:06:386 and 01:06:675 - similar to 00:42:734 - , adding d here would help reduce the gap. Added in other places but on the same section
- 01:14:751 and 01:15:040 - same as ^Added
- 01:18:213 and 01:18:501 - similar to ^ , adding k at these spots would work well. Added, i hope they wont be nuisance for lack of break though o-o
- 01:23:694 and 01:23:982 - same as 01:06:386 - I added something at 01:26:001 - & 01:26:290 - so it maintains consistency (same piano pattern), and deleted 01:27:444 - 01:28:598 - to give a break accordingly
- 01:53:408 - same as 00:42:734 - added
osu file format v14
[General]
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AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 17060
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Normal
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[Editor]
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[Metadata]
Title:MANIERA
TitleUnicode:MANIERA
Artist:D(ABE3)
ArtistUnicode:D(ABE3)
Creator:_yu68
Version:Vulkin's Kantan
Source:BMS
Tags:abe yuta vulkin mrriichi maziari1105 maziari bof2011 dwmω encore piano
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[Difficulty]
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I disagree.Skylish wrote:
Firstly, I would like to clarify that: I am not aiming at popping any 1/8 doublets since they are uncommon, it's not my target at all. My focus is always on the usage and and matches of notes with music.
Speaking back to the screenshots you provided before, thanks for providing the MIDI source of Maniera which is utterly supporting my points of view in Virtuoso actually. I am pretty confident that the current usage of 1/8 doublets are mis-matched as you can see the starting points of them (Measure 27/28). It is incomprehensible for me to understand.
Taiko is more like a base matching with the music, rather than just a game mode fitting players' common senses and expectations.
そして私はあなたに尋ねる、それらを返す。 私を含め何人かが、1/8ダブレットの存在のために実質的な証拠を与えました。 SkylishとRaidenはここで間違いがあります。 あなたはそれらの1/8ダブレットなしManieraをランク付けした場合には、マッパーとして、そして太鼓コミュニティにあなたに大きな害になります!_yu68 wrote:
deleted it by raiden's veto_yu68 wrote:
update: added 1/8 doublets at 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - based on some people's post.
I'm understanding it.[ Eon Fox ] wrote:
そして私はあなたに尋ねる、それらを返す。 私を含め何人かが、1/8ダブレットの存在のために実質的な証拠を与えました。 SkylishとRaidenはここで間違いがあります。 あなたはそれらの1/8ダブレットなしManieraをランク付けした場合には、マッパーとして、そして太鼓コミュニティにあなたに大きな害になります!
私はSuronoやTatsukeがそれを指名してくれると喜んでいると確信しています。 どちらもBNであり、どちらもVirtuosoのようであり、両方ともRaidenよりも説得しやすい。 私はTatsukeをお勧めします。彼は1/8ダブレットの決定をサポートしているだけでなく、マップも好きです。_yu68 wrote:
I'm understanding it.[ Eon Fox ] wrote:
そして私はあなたに尋ねる、それらを返す。 私を含め何人かが、1/8ダブレットの存在のために実質的な証拠を与えました。 SkylishとRaidenはここで間違いがあります。 あなたはそれらの1/8ダブレットなしManieraをランク付けした場合には、マッパーとして、そして太鼓コミュニティにあなたに大きな害になります!
However, in order to re-add 1/8 doublets, I need to find a nominator who agree it.
No change for now. Sorry.
I guess they don't have time to recheck it.[ Eon Fox ] wrote:
私はSuronoやTatsukeがそれを指名してくれると喜んでいると確信しています。 どちらもBNであり、どちらもVirtuosoのようであり、両方ともRaidenよりも説得しやすい。 私はTatsukeをお勧めします。彼は1/8ダブレットの決定をサポートしているだけでなく、マップも好きです。
no changeNardoxyribonucleic wrote:
- [Mrriichi's Inner Oni]
You may call me back after that~
- 00:02:061 - I think you need to lower the hitsound volume to about 45% so that the soft background beats would not be overemphasized.
- 00:02:782 - you may add a green line here with 90% volume for the drums.
no change because same reason as this
私はTasukeと話しただけで、彼は1/8ダブレットが返されたら彼がマップを指名する意思があると述べた。_yu68 wrote:
I guess they don't have time to recheck it.[ Eon Fox ] wrote:
私はSuronoやTatsukeがそれを指名してくれると喜んでいると確信しています。 どちらもBNであり、どちらもVirtuosoのようであり、両方ともRaidenよりも説得しやすい。 私はTatsukeをお勧めします。彼は1/8ダブレットの決定をサポートしているだけでなく、マップも好きです。
fixed.yuzu__rinrin wrote:
Kantan
00:49:368 (72,73) - Concurrent object, fix please. W
sorry for doing that ;_;yuzu__rinrin wrote:
Kantan
00:49:368 (72,73) - Concurrent object, fix please. W
Thank you!Arrival wrote:
Rechecked everything let's go ahead already
Please leave that to me. I will recheck it as soon as possible._yu68 wrote:
I'm waiting for the answer to my question from Nardo. (About whether notes can be added to 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - )
Thank you for moddingTyistiana wrote:
Hi, yumuya~
Please note that this is only my suggestion, so feel free to deny them.
Take this one not seriously, like friendly modding~
This is only my curiosity.
[Futsuu]
00:04:945 - How about delete this? Almost voiceless to make the beginner player understand this rhythm. Triplet is easier to understand rhythm than doublet imo.
00:13:022 - Delete, similar reason to 00:14:464. Or if keep 00:13:022, please consider to add note on 00:14:464. To prevent player confuse the rhythm here. From 00:12:445 - , xxx_xxx _..., I think that it's a enough simple rhythm.
00:39:272 - Same suggestion on Kantan , strong pitch here, how about add D here? maybe it's same reason why you add note here like 00:32:060 (maybe?) I wouldn't put it for consistency with 00:15:041 - .
00:41:724 - I love this one too, but how about we follow the piano pitch instead. Like this?
I find that this will be better, and which it's help to make we able to emphasize the piano here 00:43:310 and player will not confuse about it. changed
00:46:339 - Same :3 same
00:49:945 - How about d? , might be fitter. I changed instead 00:49:657 (1,2) - to dd considering the pitch.
[Virtuoso]
00:04:296 - How about delete this note to emphasize 00:04:368. To match the thing that you've emphasize the similar pitch as 00:06:099 I think that it's sufficiently emphasized by difference between k and d.
00:04:368 - If follow my upper suggestion, then change this to D might me better. I didn't change because of ^.
00:05:450 - In my opinion, this one to o. Same reason above as to emphasize the pitch like 00:05:522 I would like to emphasize 00:05:089 (28,29,30,32) - those sounds.
00:29:609 - How about add note here? Still have a pitch here. added + 00:27:301 (243) - added k
00:29:825 - How about add d here? Due to this pitch have a drag voice. I would keep to emphasize 00:29:753 (266) - .
00:30:618 - Shouldn't be d here? To make a difference between this note and 00:30:762. Because pitch on 00:30:762 have a piano pitch while 00:30:618 have not any piano pitch. I want to give priority to the cymbal because they sound clearer than the pitch.
00:33:106 - For now, delete this note in case of 00:36:423 / 00:36:568 which it have similar pitch and it have been deleted too. I think that this point is a great example to discuss on the 00:36:423 / 00:36:568. And if you consider to add note back on 00:36:423 / 00:36:568 Please consider it again to add this back. I would also consider QAT and other modder's opinions. keep for now
00:34:260 - How about make this doublet too? In my opinion. Because for me, I think that it's have something same on 00:34:404 I would keep it considering playability.
00:36:423 / 00:36:568 - This is only my opinion. I didn't consider about pp on this part. I consider by how rhythm deserve to place note in which way. Since the pitch of the piano going down and this pitch is the lowest pitch. So If I were you. I'll have 2 choices in my mind.
1. Add note here, for the inner while playing, since I've test to play this map too, I'm very confuse why these isn't a doublet as others. If we consider to map this for the fun and for the inner while playing. Add it back might be good!
2. Keep, in case of this pitch isn't give a way in 1/8 that much. It's almost voiceless enough to not use 1/8 here.
Please wait for Nardo's answer might be the best choice. I'm not the experience mapper. ;;w;; As mentioned above, I'd wait for Nardo and other modder's opinion.
I hope this will be help even a little.
Good luck for ranked~
Thanks for mod!Tyistiana wrote:
Hi, yumuya~
Please note that this is only my suggestion, so feel free to deny them.
Take this one not seriously, like friendly modding~
This is only my curiosity.
[Vulkin's Kantan]
00:17:060 - I'm afraid that this pitch is not strong enough to use D , or at least maybe it's same pitch as 00:21:676 was following the cymbal
00:24:560 - Change to d might be better, to make a difference between this note and 00:23:984 tried to make it different from 00:19:368 - , but ill make 00:23:985 (29) - d so theres still difference
00:39:272 - Very strong pitch here, how about add D here? added it, but removed 00:38:695 -, dont want crowded notes (took me like 20 minutes to decide how to do it LOL)
01:06:098 - Hmmm, how about k , to make a difference between this note and 01:05:521 wanted to contrast the pitch of 01:06:098 (4) - and 01:06:675 (5) - , as its larger than 01:05:521 (3) - and 01:06:098 (4) - imo
01:11:002 - How about change to d to match somethings you've do it before as 00:20:810 Done ^^
01:11:290 - Change to K , same reason above. ^
01:15:040 (19,20) - Change to k might be better, to emphasize the pitch here. 01:15:039 (19) - changed to k, so next note has some consistency with the d K d K pattern im trying to use
I hope this will be help even a little. it did help ^^ thanks!
Good luck for ranked~ thanks alot for mod :3/
osu file format v14
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It's a good idea to emphasize stress sounds. However, in this way, if players hit by using their hands alternately, the hand hitting 00:34:368 - and the hand hitting 00:35:522 - would be opposite. This is very difficult for part of players imo. Since 1/8 are a very unique arrangement, I want to be able to play it as easily as possible.Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:
@yu: Concerning your question, I have an idea that you may consider as an alternative suggestion of pattern arrangement. Since the stress sounds occur at 00:34:368 - 00:35:522 - 00:36:676 - 00:37:253 - , you may rearrange the 1/8 sequence by moving 00:35:414 (330) to 00:36:423 - so the more stress-intensive part at 00:36:676 - could be emphasized and the overall structure from 00:34:368 to 00:36:676 - would be more organized compared to the current state.
Former: It's undesirable because the feeling of piano is diminished,but I moved 1/6 to the place where the sound is ringing.Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:
@maziari: Your explanations of 1/6 usage at 00:25:570 (193,194,195,196) and 01:10:713 (538,539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546) - are not really convincing as there are no 1/6 sounds at all to support those notes. As only distinct 1/4 sounds can be heard in the background, please reconsider changing them to 1/4 patterns or something else.
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256,192,121105,1,4,0:0:0:0:
Nardoxyribonucleic wrote:
Had some discussions with yumuya in the game. Log as stated below.IRC check with _yu68, Sep 8, 201719:37 _yu68: Hello :3
19:37 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hi :3
19:38 *Nardoxyribonucleic is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/871924 D(ABE3) - MANIERA]
19:40 Nardoxyribonucleic: First of all, I still think maziari's use of 1/6 at 01:10:713 (539,540,541,542,543,544,545,546,547) - is not very appropriate, but well I'm going to be a bit lenient about it now
19:44 _yu68: I think the 1/6 is showing drum roll well
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: Main drum beats falls on 1/4 while there is an extra beat at 01:11:110 -
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: That is why I would suggest 1/4
19:47 Nardoxyribonucleic: The rolls are not even snapped in 1/6
19:48 Nardoxyribonucleic: I would not suggest mapping that extra beat as the snaps would be too irregular to follow
19:49 Nardoxyribonucleic: Yet 1/6 would not be the best choice here, that is my stance
19:49 Nardoxyribonucleic: But well as I said, I'm more lenient about this pattern now.
19:50 Nardoxyribonucleic: So maziari may keep that in case he still strongly insists
19:51 _yu68: I see
19:52 Nardoxyribonucleic: Then about Virtuoso
19:53 Nardoxyribonucleic: What was the 1/8 pattern arrangement agreed by Raiden upon his bubble?
19:53 Nardoxyribonucleic: i.e. [https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/6021558 this post]
19:57 Nardoxyribonucleic: I need to take that as reference to make comparison
19:58 _yu68: tasuke had said that he can qualify
19:58 Nardoxyribonucleic: He agreed with the current version or?
19:59 Nardoxyribonucleic: Agreed with adding 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 - d
19:59 Nardoxyribonucleic: which one?
19:59 _yu68: yes
19:59 _yu68: Absolutely impossible to ignore raiden's veto?
20:00 Nardoxyribonucleic: You need two other nominators' override
20:01 _yu68: It's Arrival and tasuke
20:02 Nardoxyribonucleic: So both of them agreed with the current version?
20:02 _yu68: Probably
20:03 _yu68: The map has not changed much since they agreed
20:03 _yu68: p/6126340
20:03 _yu68: and,
20:04 _yu68: https://twitter.com/tasuke912/status/877143037066878977
20:04 _yu68: tasuke is saying "If there is no one who QFs MANIERA, I can do it."
20:06 Nardoxyribonucleic: Okay. Before letting you guys move on, one more question.
20:09 Nardoxyribonucleic: 00:35:270 (328,330) - these two are actually similar spots with 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 - . I would like to know the reason of the difference, like why not using at 00:35:234 - and 00:35:378 - as well
20:10 Nardoxyribonucleic: I mean the use of 1/2
20:12 _yu68: as I said in forum, I mapped as 1/8 to make ease of hitting.
20:16 _yu68: ah
20:16 Nardoxyribonucleic: ?
20:17 _yu68: means "why am I using 1/2 there"?
20:17 Nardoxyribonucleic: I was asking why the representations at 00:35:234 (327,328,329,330) - and 00:36:387 (343,344) - are different
20:18 Nardoxyribonucleic: Like, why don't you use 1/2 at the former pair as well
20:22 _yu68: I deleted some 1/8s by raiden's veto, but I can't explain the difference in representations caused by them. I'm sorry
20:22 _yu68: They were the same 1/8 in the older version
20:24 Nardoxyribonucleic: I see. I wondered about the difference because structure-wise, deleting 00:35:270 (328,330) - as well would be more coherent.
20:25 Nardoxyribonucleic: And you talked about hand alternation previously, so I'm mentioning this now
20:26 _yu68: I guess that 1/8 and 1/2 confuse would make players confused
20:28 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm so, you think that 14 pairs of 1/8 are better than 6-2-6-2?
20:30 _yu68: I think that it is easy to decide how to hit, although the density is high
20:33 Nardoxyribonucleic: Alright. You may ask Arrival for rebubble and tasuke to requalify then.
20:33 _yu68: Could I add 1/8 to 00:36:423 - and 00:36:568 - ?
20:37 Nardoxyribonucleic: That is why I asked about the inconsistencies lol
20:38 _yu68: Thanks, and I apologize for my verrrrry poor English._.
20:38 Nardoxyribonucleic: Considering the factor of full alternation together, you have two choices of pattern: Either delete 00:35:270 (328,330) - or add 00:36:423 - 00:36:568 -
20:39 Nardoxyribonucleic: So I think you may choose between these two options regarding pattern consistency
20:40 _yu68: I understand.
20:41 Nardoxyribonucleic: Hmm, so you preferred the latter
20:41 _yu68: chose the later and updated the map
20:42 Nardoxyribonucleic: I guess that is all from my side at the moment. You may ask Arrival and tasuke now.
20:43 _yu68: Thanks so much :3
Thanks for helping!Arrival wrote:
yes
Thanks~! have fun :3!tasuke912 wrote:
Qualified!