1 Month supporter for 3rd place never forget OWC 2013

Can we try get two map pools for the finals this time?

It kind of sucks watching the two finalists go through the same map pools in the second game

We are planning with one mappool for both weeks.

buny wrote:

Can we try get two map pools for the finals this time?

It kind of sucks watching the two finalists go through the same map pools in the second game

Would be really hard to do with the lack of 6.5* maps around.

Decon082 wrote:

now implement this scoring system for non-tournament scenarios in standard and ctb please

Well I think CTB works well with both Combo-dominated and Accuracy-dominated scoring system D: Since a droplet is worth as much accuracy as an actual fruit combo, it's not fair for people who caught the combos in rhythm and lose some droplets due to control issue and get penalised equally as someone who lost rhythm and caught the droplets, that kind of defeats the purpose of a rhythm game. But on the flip side, people take accuracy in CTB for granted since literally a it has the least score value of only 10, thus many players can just blatantly ignore droplets all they want, they can miss a thousand droplets and have one combo more and still be ahead than another player with no droplet misses but 1 combo less, that's like in Osu!Standard terms, a 1000 combo map FC'ed with 1000 50s would still weigh millions ahead of a 999 combo of 300s with a miss at the end, accuracy shouldn't be disregarded as the least important factor in any game mode, also not to mention on maps like Yoiyami Hanabi SS is a whole lot better than S and should be awarded as accordingly when people are skilled enough to catch all the little things.

My long wall of text opinion as always D:

I have an idea about the Accuracy VS Combo weightage adjustment!! How about we have some formular that goes similarly to:
(Percentage Accuracy)^20 x Map Score x SS Bonus (1.06 times score multiplier) = Final Score

E.g. Team A = Players 1 to 4 Team B = Players 5 to 8

Player 1:
Map Score: 10,000,000 (no miss + a few 100s)
Accuracy: 98.32% (98.32%^20 = 0.71258618367)
Final Score: 7,125,862

Player 2:
Map Score: 10,170,871 (SS)
Accuracy: 100.00% (x1.06)
Final Score: 10,781,123

Player 3:
Map Score: 9,758,951 (no miss + full of 100s & 50s B rank)
Accuracy: 95.95% (95.95%^20 = 0.43742095198)
Final Score: 4,268,770

Player 4: (Disconnected)
Map Score: 0
Accuracy: 0.00%
Final Score: 0

Team A Total Score: 22,176,755

Player 5:
Map Score: 10,156,632 (no miss + 1 less 100 than Player 1)
Accuracy: 98.55% (98.55%^20 = 0.74667665341)
Final Score: 7,583,720

Player 6:
Map Score: 7,900,000 (1x miss + all 300s)
Accuracy: 99.86% (99.86%^20 = 0.97236929036)
Final Score: 7,681,717

Player 7:
Map Score: 7,900,000 (1x miss + all 300s)
Accuracy: 99.86% (99.86%^20 = 0.97236929036)
Final Score: 7,681,717

Player 8: (Failed)
Map Score: 0
Accuracy: 0.00%
Final Score: 0

Team B Total Score: 22,947,154

Team B wins the map by 770,399 points \o/ (3.47% more score than Team A)

The numerical values of the multipliers and exponents and even the format & functions etc are not fixed XD They are just random examples of how having a formular that evens out the Combo VS Accuracy power struggle can make the matches themselves and their end results contain more suspense and anticipation, thus more exciting and unexpected :3

No... just no....
Giving a bonus for a SS is stupid and a changing map score that isn't defined until the end is also kinda unnecessary.
That also doesn't take combo into account and the drop from low acc is too huge. A 80% score fc would mean nothing, you could get a 99% with tons of misses and you would get a score that's over 70 times bigger than the 80% fc (that's an extreme case that is not likely to happen but still...)

for those asking about commentary, I will be looking do not ask those close to me or my friends! The fact I even have to bring this up is a bit sad but I will be making the call based on my own judgement. Have a good one folks~

We just suggested some people that could do some good work here. I'm pretty sure none of the commentators involved here followed the All-Star tournament that I was talking about and noticed that you could use some of them as they're not just good at commentating live events during the game, but also have some good knowledge of players, maps and game mechanics in general. This tournament lacks casters like this.

tfg50 wrote:

No... just no....
Giving a bonus for a SS is stupid and a changing map score that isn't defined until the end is also kinda unnecessary.
That also doesn't take combo into account and the drop from low acc is too huge. A 80% score fc would mean nothing, you could get a 99% with tons of misses and you would get a score that's over 70 times bigger than the 80% fc (that's an extreme case that is not likely to happen but still...)

Firstly I don't understand what you meant by "changing map score that isn't defined until the end", my intent is to precisely tell that we should modifyr the score after the map is already over, could you re-phrase your point?
Secondly 80% accuracy in Standard is actually pretty bad :C And in all honesty especially in a tournament scenario if one's accuracy falls below 95% I can simply conclude generally that he/she is either not skilled enough at that stage or not able to practise the map diligently, and thus shall not rightfully emerge victorious. That's the philosophical cornerstone of the concept of competition in the first place.
Thirly Osu! as a rhythm game, where the rhythm element is measured by rate of accuracy and the game element is measured by proficiency in movement/reaction (AKA get combo), it makes little sense to weigh one above another, therefore I see the validity in the managements' decision to pull up the importance of accuracy even though players are used to being obsessed with combos and are reluctant to accept this change however reasonable.

Last but not least back to my own point in my previous post, I would like to clarify once more that I've stated CLEARLY in bold that all numerical values and functions are just EXAMPLES for illustration purposes only, to help readers understand through usage of analogies about how a score formular helps to balance out the issues with combo and accuracy, and how the multipliers and exponents stated above are NOT FINALISED or NON-NEGOTIABLE or even necessary in the first place My intent is to present the idea of formulars, not to get nitty-gritty with the technicality of the values involved. If you wish to argue that formulars are bad ideas, please stay on point on why formulars are bad. Anyway just to add on, everything in Osu! is pretty much calculated by formulars, like scores, accuracy, pp, even the basic model of 50% acc 50% combo is also a formular, but just too simplistic in my opinion to work fairly, which is why I suggested a more complex formular. To me there are only 2 ways to go about this: One is to stick with the old model of score wins and score only, or two get a good enough formular that makes thing fair and fun for the most, it's really that simple D:

While I have no problems with any of the commentators, nor am I saying that they should be scrapped, having three people with the max rank of about 14k talk about players who are usually under rank 1k is a bit silly. Having Raiku last year to commentate made things a lot better for me.

don't sweat it I make sure we have pro's and those who are well versed in the respective game mode, not to mention some of these players were not so low in ranking as they are today that doesn't make there understanding of the game change at all.

Minifrij wrote:

While I have no problems with any of the commentators, nor am I saying that they should be scrapped, having three people with the max rank of about 14k talk about players who are usually under rank 1k is a bit silly. Having Raiku last year to commentate made things a lot better for me.

I second this notion. While ztrot can make up for the gap in skills using his experience, I don't think this should be the case for all commentators. I casted for All-Star and OCWT and know how valuable the opinion from someone of a higher rank is - they see maps differently and can sometimes point to very interesting details that would remain invisible to a mundane player's eyes.

And I'm certain that there will be players in the community willing to jump in for OWC. So if this is a viable, please consider this.

Loctav wrote:

We had several issues in particular communities being super bitchy about who is the captain, who gets in the team, even forming two parallel teams and I had to decide who ends up in the cup. This is bullshit and pointless drama. (Right Ryosuke-? You were causing this bullcrap in France last year)

If you had several issues, don't name me, or anyone else by the way. Everyone moved on, quoting someone from something that happened last year isn't a good way to start any tournament. If someone who was involved is still upset about that last owc, I am open to any discussion. So far my case was only related to who gets to be captain, good thing you now choose. Wish that World Cup to be successful.

fartownik wrote:

We just suggested some people that could do some good work here. I'm pretty sure none of the commentators involved here followed the All-Star tournament that I was talking about and noticed that you could use some of them as they're not just good at commentating live events during the game, but also have some good knowledge of players, maps and game mechanics in general. This tournament lacks casters like this.

Second this here, commentators should be top players or above average players who have caught up most what is going on among the top players in these days. They should be well known by the community as well along with their experiences and reputation. Getting some of well known streamers who are capable in their English and experienced in today maps wouldn't hurt. No offense, not saying that deadbeat, Tasha and ztrot are incapable in the sense of commentator, but do they really know what players actually feel like when they are competing? do they know what part of the particular maps will be crucial, difficult, peaked or combo breakers for most of players so that it can be more entertaining during the matches if they add up? do they know how well each player is good or bad at when discussing during the breaks? do they know what is going on among the top players in general? These 3 commentators aren't close to what can be considered good players. I don't think they actually have the knowledge in general as they could be busy moderating as staffs rather than playing competitively.

Some players have nothing interesting to do after their matches end so they could prove to be useful as caster's guests. A quick interviews would also be possible between the breaks. I guess there's this paranoia that the player X will shout out Heil Loctav! or any other insult.
They won't

Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to remember it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.

Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3

Azlynn wrote:

Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to remember it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.

Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3

Seconded.
Otherwise I have no chance.

Azlynn wrote:

Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to remember it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.

Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3

Watch past OWC matches and then compare them with the recent All-Star ones.

fartownik wrote:

Watch past OWC matches and then compare them with the recent All-Star ones.

Extrapolating recent instances of something to prove your point doesn't make your point any stronger.

The fact of the matter is that it absolutely does not require players of extreme skill to commentate. You need charismatic individuals who are willing to learn about the necessary aspects of the game to talk about them as they happen. Having someone who is extremely well versed in the technical side of things will make commentary sound more professional, but too much of it will make it sound foreign to people who don't play the game as much. If what I'm hearing in the thread is true, this tournament typically racks up tens of thousands of viewers at one given time, and I'd be willing to guarantee that not all of them are savants at the game, either.

Someone also made a good point too: there's a risk with letting irresponsible people commentate, and there are a number of individuals in this thread expressing interest that have already shown pretty noticeable signs of immaturity.

Halogen- wrote:

Extrapolating recent instances of something to prove your point doesn't make your point any stronger.

The fact of the matter is that it absolutely does not require players of extreme skill to commentate. You need charismatic individuals who are willing to learn about the necessary aspects of the game to talk about them as they happen. Having someone who is extremely well versed in the technical side of things will make commentary sound more professional, but too much of it will make it sound foreign to people who don't play the game as much. If what I'm hearing in the thread is true, this tournament typically racks up tens of thousands of viewers at one given time, and I'd be willing to guarantee that not all of them are savants at the game, either.

Someone also made a good point too: there's a risk with letting irresponsible people commentate, and there are a number of individuals in this thread expressing interest that have already shown pretty noticeable signs of immaturity.

No.

If it's All-Star we're talking about, if anything, it proves the point that rank and skill isn't everything when it comes to commentating. There's Forz, who has exceptional skill in many different aspects of the game, and that shows in his casting, there's Evrien, who is reasonably high-ranked and definitely knows what he's talking about, there's also Monz, who, despite not having a "top-tier" rank, has already been mentioned and is in fact a brilliant caster. All three are at different levels in terms of gameplay skill and yet they are all amazing commentators, if only because they bring different flavors to the table. It's important to remember that as long as you know enough about the game, technical aspects aren't the only thing to focus on as a caster, you'll have to talk for a while and being able to manage that time without becoming boring is very important, particularly if your audience is 5 digits strong.

Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3

While having more commentators on would be great, I personally believe bringing on too many or having anymore than four commentators would be a bit too much. I found that with more commentators, there are more instances where each tries to talk over one another or a commentator accidentally speaks at the same time as another (Mr Color I'm looking at you). While okay in isolated incidents, having this occur often is a real flow-breaker and seems pretty unprofessional (take this from someone who has commentated for an official tournament and has had this happen at times). This can probably be remedied with some rehearsal, but for spontaneous, off the cuff conversations, things can get a little murky. I think two-three commentators live at one time is a good number to avoid this.

Halogen-'s point shouldn't be ignored as well - knowing that players have to undergo account checks, I can only imagine the extra steps required to be a commentator live on air, in front of thousands of potential players and fans. Don't get me wrong though, I'd love to have better commentary if possible, but I'm not entirely sure adding on more people will be the right way to do it. Maybe have more streams with different commentators for different games?

Looking forward to a hype owc this year, can't believe this is my third owc I'll be around to watch already!

I think the idea was to have more commentators in general, not necessarily at the same time as each other.
I hear you on the topic of interruptions though, it sounds bad when it happens, and if you've got more than 3 casters at once, it's bound to occur. The limit should be 3, never more than that, and maybe 2 if one of the casters is a bit talkative. It's more about finding people that do well together in the casting box than anything else, if you've got good synergy with the other person that's half the battle won.

The thing is though I can hardly imagine a game where deadbeat, Tasha, and ztrot aren't commentating (unless one of them is out for the time being, for which case a sub can be found). Having commentator rotations could be neat, but highly unneccessary for something of this nature (at least in my own opinion).

I think the idea was to have other commentators as guests and not full time owc casters. Also the idea I pointed out a few pages back also mentioned about guest casting for other commentators from other tourneys.

Lust wrote:

The thing is though I can hardly imagine a game where deadbeat, Tasha, and ztrot aren't commentating (unless one of them is out for the time being, for which case a sub can be found). Having commentator rotations could be neat, but highly unneccessary for something of this nature (at least in my own opinion).

Some people are unsatisfied with the current commmentary lineup, or would just like to hear different voices every once in a while, I think that's the main driving force behind the call for different/more commentators this year. My opinion on this is biased, but keeping things fresh is never a bad thing.
Whatever it takes to make the best tournament, that's the bottom line. Whether that means no changes, or yes changes is the consideration i guess. It'll be up to the management to make the call when it's all said and done.

Azlynn wrote:

Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to remember it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.

Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3

I understand where you are coming from, but you don't seem to have been around much. The reason why many of the players you see here raising this issue in this thread is because they feel that there are players who can be BOTH high ranked AND charismatic/caster-capable enough to man the position. And these top players who run streams on Twitch on a regular basis (loliforz, Azer, HappyStick, Doomsday, Tokichii, Jesus1412, list goes on) are used to talking in front of hundreds and we thus have valid reasons to trust that they have the skills.

We do not in any way say that the official casters are inferior - this is a qualitative statement that we can't prove statistically. We are merely saying that other people are just as ready able and willing, and there should be a window through which they can posit themselves forward - that is, if Loctav is considering this already and if so I rest my case.

StarrStyx wrote:

I think the idea was to have other commentators as guests and not full time owc casters. Also the idea I pointed out a few pages back also mentioned about guest casting for other commentators from other tourneys.

That could make OWC pretty interesting...

StarrStyx wrote:

I think the idea was to have other commentators as guests and not full time owc casters. Also the idea I pointed out a few pages back also mentioned about guest casting for other commentators from other tourneys.

While guest commentating isn't inherently a bad thing (hell, I'd love to have some fresh voices with varied experience on board), the point I made earlier is that having tons of people on air at once can lead to a pretty rough atmosphere if not rehearsed beforehand. Having things like post-match breakdowns/highlights, interviews, and discussions could be interesting and would be neat to have with more guests but has to be worked into the tight schedule that they run on already. Pretty much why osu! talk discussions on the matches occur after the round ends from what I've seen haha.

I know this sounds farfetched and most likely very difficult to pull off, but having more than one stream with different casters could remedy this quite nicely. While having more than one game going on can be unfair to whichever is the least popular, each stream can reference one another and have maybe a scoreboard somewhere that lists the scores of the other match (like in football/soccer matches!).

rfandomization wrote:

Lust wrote:

The thing is though I can hardly imagine a game where deadbeat, Tasha, and ztrot aren't commentating (unless one of them is out for the time being, for which case a sub can be found). Having commentator rotations could be neat, but highly unneccessary for something of this nature (at least in my own opinion).

Some people are unsatisfied with the current commmentary lineup, or would just like to hear different voices every once in a while, I think that's the main driving force behind the call for different/more commentators this year. My opinion on this is biased, but keeping things fresh is never a bad thing.
Whatever it takes to make the best tournament, that's the bottom line. Whether that means no changes, or yes changes is the consideration i guess. It'll be up to the management to make the call when it's all said and done.

Oh yeah, I'd totally love to hear different people on the mic - I just think with the current situation having more than what we have right now + give or take one or two people could be unrealistic. Lets see what happens moving forward!

Evrien wrote:

Azlynn wrote:

Hey guys I'm not really known around here yet but I've been around other rhythm games for quite some time. I can totally understand why you all think of higher level players as commentators but you have to remember it's not just about the higher level players. Commentators are catering to all different skill levels including people who may have never played the game before and are watching for the first time. Of course those commentating should definitely have a good knowledge of the game, but they really don't need to have good skill at it to be a good commentator. It's mostly about being able to hype up the crowd and working well together as a team. If you just throw anyone on and they don't work well together, the commentary isn't going to be that great.

Please don't take this as me saying no higher level player should be added on or anything, just wanted to voice that it's not just about a person's skill level when it comes to commentary <3

I understand where you are coming from, but you don't seem to have been around much. The reason why many of the players you see here raising this issue in this thread is because they feel that there are players who can be BOTH high ranked AND charismatic/caster-capable enough to man the position. And these top players who run streams on Twitch on a regular basis (loliforz, Azer, HappyStick, Doomsday, Tokichii, Jesus1412, list goes on) are used to talking in front of hundreds and we thus have valid reasons to trust that they pass have the skills.

We do not in any way say that the official casters are inferior - this is a qualitative statement that we can't prove statistically. We are merely saying that other people are just as ready able and willing, and there should be a window through which they can posit themselves forward - that is, if Loctav is considering this already and if so I rest my case.

Couldn't have said it better myself, although it would be interesting to have an experienced mapper and modder on board that is aware of the current meta that can provide valuable insights during the games

The issue doesn't reside in people being dicks or yelling Hitler slogans in the commentary, the issue lies in what I expect to happen in the commentary. Whatever you think is required to be a commentator, it correlates not much with your playing skill.
I agree that giving the participants self a platform to join the casts between the matches (if feasible) is a nice idea, hiring 5-20 commentators looks like needless bulk of people to organize and rotate around. ztrot, Tasha and deadbeat are the solid core. They will commentate it. You lose the overall perception of planning ahead. While I understand that your interest only resolves mostly around this tournament in particular, there are actually 5 world cups every year. I am not planning to exchange the core commentary every time.

The point is not issuesome people. The point is unreliable people. The point is people having an idea but having no guts to commentate. The point is that people are obfuscating their commentary to a level that the majority of the viewers are incapable of understanding it. Yes, you participants are ALL profenient in this game, used to terms, used to some sort of meta. Our viewers are not. You might think that the commentary is very basic because the commentators have no clue and are just brabbling basic stuff. No. That's an instruction made by us. You are free to follow mania and ctb tournaments. I heard a lot that the same people having an idea about standard only found the commentary in the CWC alright. However, they found the OWC one shit. Why? Because they had no clue about CtB, therefore found the CWC one okay. But when it was about the OWC, it was too simple for them. In fact, both commentaries were made on the same level of understanding, usage of terms, repetitive explanation of basic gameplay mechanics, etc.

I watched the allstar stuff occasionally. It was well made for the audience of professional or established players. But it was alienating the entire idea of the game with insider terms, abbreviations, lack of basic explanations, that the average clueless viewer would have not understood it.

Read twice what Halogen- said. Read it three times, even. He sums it up perfectly fine. Also, you are unsatisfied because you are comparing a one year old tournament with a recent one, while we hosted 4!! other world cups meanwhile, with an entire different roster of commentators every time. The comparison is invalid. Please pick up the MWC4K for valid comparisons in future. This goes for every comparison anyways. Every change or setup you see in the OWC was actually already present in 4 previous tournaments. I would appreciate if you would not always refer to the oldest tournament to make your points, as we fixed things with every single other tournament.

What ztrot is referring to that some people started to raid personal contacts of him to bribe themselves into the commentary. If you are interested, claim your interest appropriately. Bugging the heck out of someone's peer group or friends pretty much excludes you for being unreasonable and attentionwhory. We also exclude everyone that is doing this only for their own welfare (more fame, more popularity, etc.) we also exclude everyone that is too self-centered, too proud of their skill, etc. A long list of character traits is involved here. ztrot makes the final calls here, however, make your interest in this known in a professional and proper way.

We also have no need for one hit wonders that only commentate when it floats their boat. You are interested? Then be willed to wake up at 3am and commentate 8 hours straight if needed. Unreliable? Too much obligation? Then this is nothing for you.

Interested in non-existent sleep schedules, being on constant coffee, talking 8-12 hours straight without peeing for the next 7 weekends? Being full of hype, able to break down your knowledge to the very basics? Capable of explaining things? Charismatic? Good microphone? Good team worker? No arrogant asshole? Be my guest!

The thing is though I can hardly imagine a game where deadbeat, Tasha, and ztrot aren't commentating

Yeah, deadbeat is my favourite

Why don't you link directly to the streams of the OWC#1? They serve as perfect example of how stuff is done now. read as: stop being a dick

I don't have and opinion on if old owc tournaments have had good commentary or not, but:

Loctav wrote:

Interested in non-existent sleep schedules, being on constant coffee, talking 8-12 hours straight without peeing for the next 7 weekends? Being full of hype, able to break down your knowledge to the very basics?

That's why you have more than 3 people commentating, and you switch them up so commentators get adequate breaks

I generally find 1 charismatic commentator paired up with one analytic commentator usually works out really well. One brings the hype, while the other infodumps basically. A lot of people commentating at the same time usually leads to people talking over each other, or someone not talking much at all. It's much easier to keep it balanced with 2 people on the mic.

Also, I don't think people think that the charismatic people aren't needed, but that some higher skilled players might be a nice addition to the commentary.
Obviously you'd need someone with time, dedication and everything, and someone also competing is probably not really a good idea, but having say 3 commentary pairs and a commentary schedule could be really helpful in both getting enough rest and time to find a rhythm to commentating for the pair (if they are kept the same).

Unfortunately, experience prove that it is hard to find people that stick to schedules reliably. The general idea of rotating commentators out is a given and clear, but we recruited people from all over the places and the current core team is the only bunch I can plan with a 99% reliability. In last years OWC, this was not a given. (Reliability resolved around 60%)
I know we need to have a bigger core team, but this core team should exist for all 5 world cups. Because finding reliable people is hard here.

Loctav wrote:

Unfortunately, experience prove that it is hard to find people that stick to schedules reliably. The general idea of rotating commentators out is a given and clear, but we recruited people from all over the places and the current core team is the only bunch I can plan with a 99% reliability. In last years OWC, this was not a given. (Reliability resolved around 60%)
I know we need to have a bigger core team, but this core team should exist for all 5 world cups. Because finding reliable people is hard here.

This 100%. It's not like peppy actually pays $$$ to commentators. Thus, no matter how much the commentators want to work the matches, real life and real occupations take priority.

He Ang Erika wrote:

tfg50 wrote:

No... just no....
Giving a bonus for a SS is stupid and a changing map score that isn't defined until the end is also kinda unnecessary.
That also doesn't take combo into account and the drop from low acc is too huge. A 80% score fc would mean nothing, you could get a 99% with tons of misses and you would get a score that's over 70 times bigger than the 80% fc (that's an extreme case that is not likely to happen but still...)

Firstly I don't understand what you meant by "changing map score that isn't defined until the end", my intent is to precisely tell that we should modifyr the score after the map is already over, could you re-phrase your point?
Secondly 80% accuracy in Standard is actually pretty bad :C And in all honesty especially in a tournament scenario if one's accuracy falls below 95% I can simply conclude generally that he/she is either not skilled enough at that stage or not able to practise the map diligently, and thus shall not rightfully emerge victorious. That's the philosophical cornerstone of the concept of competition in the first place.
Thirly Osu! as a rhythm game, where the rhythm element is measured by rate of accuracy and the game element is measured by proficiency in movement/reaction (AKA get combo), it makes little sense to weigh one above another, therefore I see the validity in the managements' decision to pull up the importance of accuracy even though players are used to being obsessed with combos and are reluctant to accept this change however reasonable.

Last but not least back to my own point in my previous post, I would like to clarify once more that I've stated CLEARLY in bold that all numerical values and functions are just EXAMPLES for illustration purposes only, to help readers understand through usage of analogies about how a score formular helps to balance out the issues with combo and accuracy, and how the multipliers and exponents stated above are NOT FINALISED or NON-NEGOTIABLE or even necessary in the first place My intent is to present the idea of formulars, not to get nitty-gritty with the technicality of the values involved. If you wish to argue that formulars are bad ideas, please stay on point on why formulars are bad. Anyway just to add on, everything in Osu! is pretty much calculated by formulars, like scores, accuracy, pp, even the basic model of 50% acc 50% combo is also a formular, but just too simplistic in my opinion to work fairly, which is why I suggested a more complex formular. To me there are only 2 ways to go about this: One is to stick with the old model of score wins and score only, or two get a good enough formular that makes thing fair and fun for the most, it's really that simple D:

I see, I do agree that combo matters too much right now but if player A gets a 200 combo 99% score and tons of misses and player B gets fc 1200 combo and 90% score, player B deserves more score (that kind of scenario does happen all the time with me, I'm player A). With the numbers that you said (ofc, this is just an example, as you said that could be tweaked) player B would get at least 5 times less score. That's kinda unfair even if you take combo off the equation.

What I meant by changing stuff that isn't defined until the end is that there is a max score like mania but your score can't be calculated before the end, so matches would feel really awkward with misses (and missed stream specially) reducing your score instead of simply diminishing the score gain.

The new score system will probably just make the scaling less drastic (idk how the combo bonus is calculated but something like combo^(1/2) might be enough assuming it scales linearly with combo) or use a internal combo meter that caps or doesn't go all the way down after missing just once.

Evrien wrote:

I understand where you are coming from, but you don't seem to have been around much. The reason why many of the players you see here raising this issue in this thread is because they feel that there are players who can be BOTH high ranked AND charismatic/caster-capable enough to man the position. And these top players who run streams on Twitch on a regular basis (loliforz, Azer, HappyStick, Doomsday, Tokichii, Jesus1412, list goes on) are used to talking in front of hundreds and we thus have valid reasons to trust that they have the skills.

We do not in any way say that the official casters are inferior - this is a qualitative statement that we can't prove statistically. We are merely saying that other people are just as ready able and willing, and there should be a window through which they can posit themselves forward - that is, if Loctav is considering this already and if so I rest my case.

As I mentioned in my post, I haven't been around osu! long but I've been involved with rhythm games for 12 years. I've been staff for 5 years on another rhythm game site and have a good working knowledge on what's necessary when it comes to these things. High level player doesn't = good commentator and not so good player doesn't = bad commentator. I just think the mentality a lot of people here have of the person having to be a good player to be a good commentator isn't a good one to have. If the person has a good personality and knows the mechanics of the game they can likely commentate it fine. You also can't throw too many people into it otherwise it's hard for people to talk, you end up tripping on one another.

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

The thing is though I can hardly imagine a game where deadbeat, Tasha, and ztrot aren't commentating

Yeah, deadbeat is my favourite

the feels man

This happens in every online game tournament, there is one side that wants an experienced, insightful caster (i.e. merlini), and then there is another with what is known as a "hype" caster (i.e. tobiwan).

Players that prefer more game-experienced casters tend to be players that are veteran at the game already, whereas more casual or new players lean towards hype casters. It's logical to pick hype casters over experienced casters, because hype caters more towards the newer players. The problem is that by taking a look at the caster roster for this year, it's obvious that the participating casters aren't that great at the game they're going to commentate

I don't think anybody actually minds the casters, but they would prefer an additional game-experienced caster, so that the commentating will cater both sides of the spectrum rather than newer/casual players.

Just my 2c but I hope you take this post into consideration ztrot, and have an additional caster that leans towards game-experience rather than hype