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reimu bitching thread

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Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2

Riince wrote:

Friendan wrote:

I thought this was a Hakurei Reimu bitching thread
he shouldn't have been unbanned, guess mods want all the dank meems to come back.
Thing is people didnt kick up a stink when _index got a second chance, an plenty of other people who noone even knows hacked got second chances too, like tiper, but somehow the fact that reimu had a lot of loud ass supporters made it different somehow.
I think people generally have 2 problems with the unban.
1) They disagree with a more lenient policy on unbans
2) They disagree with osu giving up its integrity

Your point refers to the userbase not applying 1) & 2) holistically, which admittedly is a mistake on their part, but.. as an argument, it doesn't attack the substance of 1) & 2).
Calling people out on their hypocrisy is effective in personal conflicts, but in formal debates its still an ad-hominem. It's not an insta-win for you, its actually an insta-loss.


now on 2), from the looks of it there seems to be a rule included that made this possible without threatening the aforementioned integrity. The question is if this was only recently changed, or if this was implemented and exercised for a longer time. Sadly I don't know what exactly went down there.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

B1rd wrote:

People deserve second chances.
Why?
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
People deserve second chances.
Cheating is worst possible crime in games, it destroy whole competition idea and fun for other players.
Cheaters should stay banned forever without second chance to come back, give legit players some respect if you expect them to support your game.
Cheater will stay a cheater forever. No exeptions. You cheated once, you will do this again.
Reimu is cheater and should stay banned forever. Otherwise it's just unfair against legit players.
This count to every single one who somehow is still in the ranking. Doesn't matter what.
If you are leading online game and even dare to unban obvious cheater - you just make your face look like an ass and slap legit players, more - push them to cheat becouse "oh wait, i can be unbanned for [whatever reason]".

Anyway, this kind of actualy loud action works pretty bad for Osu opinion. Wish it will not affect of more and more retards using cheats becouse they are completly bad at this game.

@Edit as requested.
Last edited by -Makishima S- , edited 2 times in total.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Topic Starter
Vuelo Eluko
its just ot settle down stefan
Last edited by Vuelo Eluko , edited 1 time in total.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
just ot, not related

+1 postcount or delete w/e
Last edited by -Makishima S- , edited 1 time in total.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Topic Starter
Vuelo Eluko
of course they deserve second chances because we don't live in a video game.

and if he cheats again he gets banned thats it
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
[Taiga]: this example is simply disgusting and completely out of place, please avoid that for future. Like said, everyone deserves a chance when appropriated. And from what I've seen Reimu does fullfil this criteria.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
[Taiga]: this example is simply disgusting and completely out of place, please avoid that for future.
As you request, edited it. Mind to change Riince post or just clear last once?

Like said, everyone deserves a chance when appropriated. And from what I've seen Reimu does fullfil this criteria.
I am not the one who decide about this, it's just my own opinion.
AutoMedic
1,166 posts
Joined April 2014
AutoMedic

Stefan wrote:

[Taiga]: this example is simply disgusting and completely out of place, please avoid that for future. Like said, everyone deserves a chance when appropriated. And from what I've seen Reimu does fullfil this criteria.
lol

"hey guys look i cheated in a game i should plead someone in order to get unbanned because I TOTALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT I DID AND I SHOULD GET UNBANNED"

people have different perspectives, and i think whoever this reimu guy is needs to get banned still whatever he/she did. i dont care if he/she repents his/her mistake but the conscience isnt there anymore in his heart to "not cheat"
DeletedUser_3905941
DeletedUser_3905941

Stefan wrote:

[Taiga]: this example is simply disgusting and completely out of place, please avoid that for future. Like said, everyone deserves a chance when appropriated. And from what I've seen Reimu does fullfil this criteria.
For being good at the game? That's a tad fucking unfair isn't it?
No cheaters deserve a second chance, fuck em' all. I don't care for the reasons of cheaters, but Reimu caused a huge dramafest in the community. This cesspool of 12 year olds, #osu and a couple of the fucktard top players that stream for money caused poor old peppy to unban the fucktard cheater. If cheaters are banned forever, it's incredibly unfair for any other cheaters to appeal.

Reimu doesn't meet any criteria, he's a cunt.
repr1se
482 posts
Joined May 2014
repr1se

Stefan wrote:

[Taiga]: this example is simply disgusting and completely out of place, please avoid that for future. Like said, everyone deserves a chance when appropriated. And from what I've seen Reimu does fullfil this criteria.
I as well. I imagine peppy and the team will be watching Reimu closely, to see if he does cheat again.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany

[Taiga] wrote:

Cheaters should stay banned forever without second chance to come back, give legit players some respect if you expect them to support your game.
Cheater will stay a cheater forever. No exeptions. You cheated once, you will do this again.
Reimu is cheater and should stay banned forever. Otherwise it's just unfair against legit players.
Honestly, I disagree with this. Most people who cheat deserve exactly what you've said, but if someone seems genuinely remorseful, they've had a lot of time to think about their actions and mature, and have apologized profusely, I think they deserve a second chance. If it ends up coming to the worst situation, he cheats again, people are watching him, quick ban, nobody gets affected all that much.

Besides, this is gonna make the top 10 so much more interesting
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2

[Taiga] wrote:

People deserve second chances.
Cheater will stay a cheater forever. No exeptions. You cheated once, you will do this again.
bullshit! What is this notion, people don't change? This is so far away from reality as it could be. Whoever holds this belief just needs to open his eyes and talk to some people, really. Or just take a look at yourself. Are you the same person that you were when you were 12 years old? I don't think so. Why assume that this change-process just stops when you are older?

We have whole legal systems founded on the idea of resocializing people. We have a whole academic branch, a scientific discipline that specifically targets controlled change in people for the better (therapeutic psychology). How can people still say that people don't change, in the face of low relapse-rates and the constantly reaffirmed efficacy of modern therapy?
Once pathetic, always pathetic? Just no. Get over yourself, you aren't better than all those people. People can change and have the potential to rise far above you, in all aspects of life.
Lewder
654 posts
Joined October 2012
Lewder
cheating is committing osu!suicide
you don't get a second chance when you commit suicide
stay banned faggot, stay mad faggotfans
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

[Taiga] wrote:

People deserve second chances.
Cheating is worst possible crime in games, it destroy whole competition idea and fun for other players.
Cheaters should stay banned forever without second chance to come back, give legit players some respect if you expect them to support your game.
Cheater will stay a cheater forever. No exeptions. You cheated once, you will do this again.
Reimu is cheater and should stay banned forever. Otherwise it's just unfair against legit players.
This count to every single one who somehow is still in the ranking. Doesn't matter what.
If you are leading online game and even dare to unban obvious cheater - you just make your face look like an ass and slap legit players, more - push them to cheat becouse "oh wait, i can be unbanned for [whatever reason]".

Anyway, this kind of actualy loud action works pretty bad for Osu opinion. Wish it will not affect of more and more retards using cheats becouse they are completly bad at this game.

Lewder wrote:

cheating is committing osu!suicide
you don't get a second chance when you commit suicide
stay banned faggot, stay mad faggotfans
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
bullshit! What is this notion, people don't change? This is so far away from reality as it could be. Whoever holds this belief just needs to open his eyes and talk to some people, really. Or just take a look at yourself. Are you the same person that you were when you were 12 years old? I don't think so. Why assume that this change-process just stops when you are older?
You should talk to someone, fast... for mixing real life and computer game. It's completly diffrent world.

We have whole legal systems founded on the idea of resocializing people. We have a whole academic branch, a scientific discipline that specifically targets controlled change in people for the better (therapeutic psychology). How can people still say that people don't change, in the face of low relapse-rates and the constantly reaffirmed efficacy of modern therapy?
Once pathetic, always pathetic? Just no. Get over yourself, you aren't better than all those people. People can change and have the potential to rise far above you, in all aspects of life.
bs
I am better than cheaters, i don't need any illegal programs to achieve something in any games.
They need it.
Reimu skilled? Then why he cheated?
As you said - open your eyes. You just support cheater who don't have personal honor to stop beging for another chance and deal with punishment.
xXxC00k13z1xXx
0 posts
Joined June 2015
xXxC00k13z1xXx
reimu only got unbanned because he's popular

come at me bros
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2

[Taiga] wrote:

bullshit! What is this notion, people don't change? This is so far away from reality as it could be. Whoever holds this belief just needs to open his eyes and talk to some people, really. Or just take a look at yourself. Are you the same person that you were when you were 12 years old? I don't think so. Why assume that this change-process just stops when you are older?
You should talk to someone, fast... for mixing real life and computer game. It's completly diffrent world.
I am not mixing anything up here.
Tell me what aspect of this difference prohibits taking "repeated offenses against a working system for egoistic reasons with negative consequences for others" as a measure of personal development? And what aspect prohibits taking a positive change regarding the views towards said offenses as a measure of personal growth?
It surely is a different world, but I don't see how the difference is significant enough to prohibit any kind of comparison in this case. Concepts like enjoyment and accomplishment are concepts that apply to both "worlds", and these are the concepts that are threatened by actions like his.
So yeah, do tell. Don't give me a quarter of an argument.

[Taiga] wrote:

We have whole legal systems founded on the idea of resocializing people. We have a whole academic branch, a scientific discipline that specifically targets controlled change in people for the better (therapeutic psychology). How can people still say that people don't change, in the face of low relapse-rates and the constantly reaffirmed efficacy of modern therapy?
Once pathetic, always pathetic? Just no. Get over yourself, you aren't better than all those people. People can change and have the potential to rise far above you, in all aspects of life.
bs
I am better than cheaters, i don't need any illegal programs to achieve something in any games.
They need it.
Reimu skilled? Then why he cheated?
As you said - open your eyes. You just support cheater who don't have personal honor to stop beging for another chance and deal with punishment.
Again glossing over the essential part of my post. The whole point was, that they cheated back then. What you do, is taking this giant leap in assuming that the same does and will apply to the present and future. The "once a cheater always a cheater mentality", which is tied to the "people never change mentality".
I gave you a empirical argument as to how people change, you have yet to present me something.

And please, don't start talking about honor or pride. One mans honor is another mans shame. Honor way too elusive for being used in an argument. Even in this case, we probably have a completely different view of what is honorable. Try to make it more tangible if you want to use it as an argument and tell me what you really mean when you talk about honor.

I surely don't support cheating.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Yes, you are mixing real life and computer game, to be more precise, you are applying real life behaviors into internet which is wrong.
Do you want argument, ok:
Let's say, you like to play poker. You go to big casino in Vegas, and then, you cards are not good. So you start cheating. First time went ok, noone catched you, you do this couple more time until someone catch you up. Cheating is cheating, you get law case into face, you get punished and forever blacklisted in whole Vegas. You either pay money for your crime or even get into jail.
My dear - it doesn't matter what kind of punishment you get, it's natural behavior for most of humans to go back into cheating becouse "i already know what i done wrong, now i am gonna avoid this and still cheat! ez money, ez life!". People do not change in this matter, never.

Do you think that any time Vegas will get you out from blacklist? Nooooo... you stay there forever as dirty cheater.
Same here - unbanning a cheater is a big slap into players face becouse obviously he destroyed someones gameplay.

You don't need to agree with me but don't try to convince me into changing my opinion.
As i said - for me cheaters are and will be cheaters forever. They should be banned forever. They don't deserve second chance, NEVER.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

Kheldragar wrote:

B1rd wrote:

People deserve second chances.
Why?
Because everyone makes mistakes so it's better to give people a chance to learn from them rather than to punish them forever.

[Taiga] wrote:

As i said - for me cheaters are and will be cheaters forever. They should be banned forever. They don't deserve second chance, NEVER.
What, do you really need to hear of the hundreds or thousands of examples of people who cheated and then came back and never did so again? You know that one of the lead developers of the game cheated once? How can you possibly think that it's impossible for people to admit their mistakes and change?
In your mentality, if you committed any crime you should go to prison for life or be executed because you will always be a criminal no matter what.
Yabuki Nako
99 posts
Joined July 2008
Yabuki Nako
All that hate and that salt we can read sometime over the internet, just about a sick and obvious cheat in a video game.


Not surprising when people are killing each others in the street.
Last edited by Yabuki Nako , edited 3 times in total.
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2

[Taiga] wrote:

Yes, you are mixing real life and computer game, to be more precise, you are applying real life behaviors into internet which is wrong.
Do you want argument, ok:
Let's say, you like to play poker. You go to big casino in Vegas, and then, you cards are not good. So you start cheating. First time went ok, noone catched you, you do this couple more time until someone catch you up. Cheating is cheating, you get law case into face, you get punished and forever blacklisted in whole Vegas. You either pay money for your crime or even get into jail.
My dear - it doesn't matter what kind of punishment you get, it's natural behavior for most of humans to go back into cheating becouse "i already know what i done wrong, now i am gonna avoid this and still cheat! ez money, ez life!". People do not change in this matter, never.

Do you think that any time Vegas will get you out from blacklist? Nooooo... you stay there forever as dirty cheater.
Same here - unbanning a cheater is a big slap into players face becouse obviously he destroyed someones gameplay.

You don't need to agree with me but don't try to convince me into changing my opinion.
As i said - for me cheaters are and will be cheaters forever. They should be banned forever. They don't deserve second chance, NEVER.
first you say that I can't compare cheating here to cheating IRL, then you do the exact same thing with making your poker-example? You are contradicting yourself.

As for the second part of your comment, it's circular. You say that people don't change because people don't change. I don't think that your "natural behavior"-point is conclusive at all. You claim that cheating is some sort of default-state that people revert to, no matter what.
So let's take a look at what cheating really is, at its core.

In my opinion, the best characterization of cheating is "repeated offenses against a working system for egoistic reasons with negative consequences for others".
How is this supposed to be a default-state?
In the overwhelming majority of postulated models for cognitive or moral development, the action in question would fall into an earlier category, one that is no more than a foundation for further development. Something between the lines of: "Self-centered, without consideration for the established order, for why this order is useful and for why and how the taken actions are harmful for others."

Read Kohlberg, read Loevinger, read Robert Kegan. Personality isn't stable, its dynamic.

I posted about zero-tolerance policies in another thread, but I guess this isn't even the point of the discussion anymore. I just can't believe how someone can hold views that counter-intuitive, when everything around you demonstrates the opposite. Selective attention taken to an extreme? I don't know, but I really don't want to elaborate on this further. Read up on modern theories of character-development, or just take a look around you.
Friendan
229 posts
Joined April 2014
Friendan

xXxC00k13z1xXx wrote:

reimu only got unbanned because he's popular

come at me bros
We already knew that. I believe that if he got unbanned, everyone who cheats should get a second chance (unless they created an account just to cheat).
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Topic Starter
Vuelo Eluko

Friendan wrote:

xXxC00k13z1xXx wrote:

reimu only got unbanned because he's popular

come at me bros
We already knew that. I believe that if he got unbanned, everyone who cheats should get a second chance (unless they created an account just to cheat).
but it's not true at all, many people get unbanned and given a second chance, MANY.
Trash Boat
4,403 posts
Joined April 2013
Trash Boat

Riince wrote:

but it's not true at all, many people get unbanned and given a second chance, MANY.
*cough* *Mara* *cough*
Parasyche
55 posts
Joined September 2014
Parasyche
Well, I don't really mind if he is unbanned, but I joined after he was banned. I would just give him another chance, and then pounce on him like a fat kid to twinkies if he ever cheats again.
IppE
IppE
I miss strager
Lewder
654 posts
Joined October 2012
Lewder

B1rd wrote:

Because everyone makes mistakes so it's better to give people a chance to learn from them rather than to punish them forever.
there is no point in punishing people if they know they can just wait a year and be unbanned then. thinking someone "grows" during their banned time is fucking bullshit, they just don't do it again either because they know the next time is surely permanent or they got their fill of attentionwhoring from the first time. unbanning anyone without the actual rules having changed to be more lenient on the issue they were banned on is fucking stupid and shouldn't happen.
-sev
875 posts
Joined February 2014
-sev
Yada yada yada
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Topic Starter
Vuelo Eluko

Lewder wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Because everyone makes mistakes so it's better to give people a chance to learn from them rather than to punish them forever.
there is no point in punishing people if they know they can just wait a year and be unbanned then. thinking someone "grows" during their banned time is fucking bullshit, they just don't do it again either because they know the next time is surely permanent or they got their fill of attentionwhoring from the first time. unbanning anyone without the actual rules having changed to be more lenient on the issue they were banned on is fucking stupid and shouldn't happen.
just like all those people that commit crimes that know that they can get sent to jail for X amount of time but commit crimes anyway, then get thrown in jail. and NONE OF THEM ever learn from it since they can just do it again once they get out!

prison system is useless, let's just put a bullet between everyones eyes.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Being banned from the game won't restrict most of your life like prison would.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Topic Starter
Vuelo Eluko
anyone who hacks on osu! doesnt have much else going on in their life to begin with. it's pretty comparable.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
+10 to all of Railey's posts
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

Lewder wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Because everyone makes mistakes so it's better to give people a chance to learn from them rather than to punish them forever.
there is no point in punishing people if they know they can just wait a year and be unbanned then. thinking someone "grows" during their banned time is fucking bullshit, they just don't do it again either because they know the next time is surely permanent or they got their fill of attentionwhoring from the first time. unbanning anyone without the actual rules having changed to be more lenient on the issue they were banned on is fucking stupid and shouldn't happen.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think everyone who hacks should be unbanned, because like you say, people will just hack knowing that they will get unbanned. People should only get unbanned if they are actually repentant. Of course it's impossible to know if they actually are, but the only thing to do really is for the staff to judge on a case by case basis; unban some and keep others banned, for a couple years at least.
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa
Which is what they already do, really. They give you a chance to appeal after a certain amount of time and review your appeal when you do. If you don't, you stay banned. If you cheat again after being unbanned, chance is lost. Nothing is wrong with this system imo.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
e: Nope I checked and it's changed since the last time I checked okay.
Lewder
654 posts
Joined October 2012
Lewder

B1rd wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I don't think everyone who hacks should be unbanned, because like you say, people will just hack knowing that they will get unbanned. People should only get unbanned if they are actually repentant. Of course it's impossible to know if they actually are, but the only thing to do really is for the staff to judge on a case by case basis; unban some and keep others banned, for a couple years at least.
people who hack to get banned because they throw a snowflake syndrome tantrum should not be unbanned no matter how much they regret it or how goodwilled they actually are. you can't just break the rules because you feel like causing drama. i'm going to stop caring about this issue now because debating here does not affect the staff's terrible decisions and just makes me think they're fucking idiots who dig their own grave for the next few years even more. give it a few years and more top scorers will get themselves banned for attention and these dumb weeaboo cunts will just defend them to no end and the staff has to read this shit. i feel for them but it's going to be their own fucking fault lmao
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Topic Starter
Vuelo Eluko
there's very few things a human being can do that can't be forgiven. Cheating on osu! is not one of them.
-sev
875 posts
Joined February 2014
-sev
drama in a circle clicking game

you heard it here first boys
Nyxa
848 posts
Joined October 2013
Nyxa

Riince wrote:

there's very few things a human being can do that can't be forgiven. Cheating on osu! is not one of them.
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