Kalafina - believe~TV size~ [Osu|Taiko]

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OnosakiHito
Helped a bit out with the difficulty of Muzukashii in IRC. Might help you guys with the progress.

18:44 Kurosanyan: Ono, could I quickly discuss taiko mapping guidelines with you?
18:44 Kurosanyan: Oh okay :(
19:02 OnosakiHito: What's up?
19:02 Kurosanyan: Just want to know your point of view about patterns like d d k kkd d k in Muzukashii
19:03 Kurosanyan: Because I always get complains about it and wonder if I should give up or be stubborn.
19:03 Kurosanyan: Like "kkd = oni"
19:06 OnosakiHito: Best would be to keep these patterns out of Muzukashii. I don't know how you map, but in most cases people tend to make Muzukashii way harder as they supposed to be, even without these patterns. And adding such patterns in Muzukashii are often one of the reasons to disqualify them imidiatelly. Yes, it does sometimes happen, that Muzus with oox are not getting disqualified - but only because,
19:06 OnosakiHito: in some cases they are not overused or bounded with too many patterns.
19:06 OnosakiHito: The guide says it is fine, indeed. But it depends a lot of the song and map itself.
19:07 OnosakiHito: The harder patterns become (here: having oox), the less patterns you should bound to each other. In other words: The harder the more breaks are requierd.
19:08 Kurosanyan: Most the time, it's patterns like d d k kkd d k with 1/1 breaks
19:09 Kurosanyan: Anyway, it's just that I dislike the huge gap between Oni and Muzukashii and don't want to make an Inner for every single mapset.
19:09 OnosakiHito: kkd is even more tricky than ddk, since you have to hit them in an "unusual"(can't explain it that well like motherlanguage speakers) way than the dons.
19:10 Kurosanyan: Yes I know, I remember when I started taiko
19:10 OnosakiHito: Well, you will have to do it. Nevermind for what reason. Sounds harsh I guess. But we want to see difficulties which are fair to their lable. If it requiers another Inner, it can just mean that either
19:10 OnosakiHito: the spread is not good, or the already existing Oni is too hard.
19:10 OnosakiHito: Second guess, is the most common one.
19:11 OnosakiHito: And kills every map / ste imidiatelly.
19:11 OnosakiHito: set*
19:12 OnosakiHito: In case you are still unsure about what I said and might not understand the exact reason behind this idea, I will add that lower players,
19:12 Kurosanyan: Well, I'll obviously to removes the ones on my 200bpm map then.
19:12 Kurosanyan: have to*
19:13 OnosakiHito: aren't able to play Muzukashii with "hard" patterns which are bounded together. I tested it already several times in real life and got confirmation from it by other experienced guys or staff members.
19:13 OnosakiHito: 200 bpm
19:13 OnosakiHito: lol
19:13 OnosakiHito: Yeah. Remove these.
19:14 Kurosanyan: The thing is, lots of players complain that Muzukashii is too easy and Oni too hard.
19:14 OnosakiHito: That's what experienced players say, and tbh, I wouldn't trust in that.
19:15 OnosakiHito: Might be harsh as well from my site, but most people have a distorted view of Muzu once they reach a level where they can play Oni well enough.
19:15 Kurosanyan: Experienced players have no trouble with Oni.
19:16 OnosakiHito: That's what I mean. They have no trouble with Oni, hence think, that Muzu is too easy.
19:16 OnosakiHito: One thing is to look at diffs as player, but looking at it as player and mapper gives you a whole new view of a map.
19:17 OnosakiHito: ^ Hm, might be not clear enough. But don't know how else to express my self right now. Actually I'm pretty tiered.
19:18 Kurosanyan: I remember having an awfully hard time starting Oni because of how hard it was compared to Muzukashii.
19:18 OnosakiHito: That means, Oni must be easier. Not Muzukashii.
19:19 Kurosanyan: Probably
19:19 OnosakiHito: Remember: We still have Ura and Inner.
19:19 OnosakiHito: And even so, we can still go up (if the song supports it)
19:19 Kurosanyan: I'll have to start making 3 GD per set then
19:19 OnosakiHito: ?
19:19 Kurosanyan: You should be more clear about Muzukashii on your mapping guide though, since it's a bit confusing.
19:20 OnosakiHito: Oh, that's interesting to know.
19:21 OnosakiHito: Can you tell me what the confusing part is?
19:22 Kurosanyan: Well, I dislike not taking the whole difficulty potential (while not overdoing it of course) of a song, so except on really slow or calm song, I'll have to do Muzu-Oni-Inner instead of just Muzu-Oni
19:23 Kurosanyan: Well for example "Stick to simple 1/4 patterns like ddd/kkk, ddk/kkd and do not overuse them."
19:23 Kurosanyan: That's as if ddd kkk ddk and kkd are the same and are totally fine for any Muzu at any bpm.
19:23 OnosakiHito: That's why we have the "conclusion section". Maybe it's not clear enough?
19:24 OnosakiHito: "It should be noted that the more 1/4 are in use, the more breaks/spaings should appear to give the player the possibility to prepare themself for the upcoming patterns."
19:24 OnosakiHito: And about the M+O+I case, should be something written in the "Taiko-Set" section.
19:25 OnosakiHito: Hm. I see right now the "Taiko-Set" section could use some update, to give possible solutions.
19:25 OnosakiHito: Because, you can solve that "having too many diffs"-problem in an easy way:
19:25 OnosakiHito: Having a bigger spread between the diffs.
19:26 OnosakiHito: Well, "easy" might be oversaid. It requers experience of course.
19:26 Kurosanyan: By breaks, do you mean 2/1 breaks ?
19:26 OnosakiHito: For example. Yeah.
19:26 Kurosanyan: Or leaving the 1/4 alone with 1/1 breaks?
19:27 Kurosanyan: Maybe the easiest way would be to do a quick check on my Muzu and tell me what makes it too hard, if you don't mind
19:28 OnosakiHito: It depends of the diff / map itself. E.g.: You use 1/4. Some 2/1 should appear to "SPLIT" the patterns from each other. 1/1 is in most cases not enough, since it is just a small gap between patterns (considering the amount).
19:30 OnosakiHito: Or e.g.: You map on 1/2 with some ooo 1/4. 2/1 are requiered, so you can split the patterns again and give player some rest moment.
19:30 Kurosanyan: Well, I rarely put any 2/1 break. There's a lot of 1/1 breaks though.
19:30 OnosakiHito: Show me the map.
19:30 *Kurosanyan is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/539318 Kalafina - believe~TV size~ [Kurosanyan's Muzukashii]]
19:32 OnosakiHito: 00:13:483 - Such breaks are good in Muzu.
19:33 OnosakiHito: 00:14:252 - ~ 00:37:906 - Here are some 2/1 or 3/4 breaks requiered. I think I can explain you why:
19:34 OnosakiHito: 1/1 gaps appear pretty often, hence they do not split certain stanzas from each other. From 14sec to 37sec, you could say that all these patterns belong to one section.
19:35 Kurosanyan: Yeah I understood
19:35 OnosakiHito: Just an example: 00:16:656 (15,16,17,18) - When deleting these and changing (14) to a finisher,
19:35 OnosakiHito: it makes clear that this section is over and a new one ( 00:17:329 - ) appears.
19:36 Kurosanyan: I thought about deleting those when you told me about puting a 2/1 break on this part
19:36 OnosakiHito: In Taiko, it is really important to take care of the stanzas, which you see in the timing panel.
19:37 OnosakiHito: Of course, patterns aren't that hard, since they do not alternate so much with the other colour. But since you map in a continues mapping for 22 seconds, it can be already pretty tiering for Muzu/lower players
19:38 OnosakiHito: Next example:
19:39 OnosakiHito: Let's say, the 5plets at 00:16:560 - fit really good to the song, and it wouldn't benefit the map if we delete it. Rather harm it.
19:39 OnosakiHito: If that happens, mapper (in this case you) can have later some break, e.g. somewhere at 00:19:637 -
19:39 OnosakiHito: That would be the previous stanza x2
19:41 OnosakiHito: First example: 1 + 2 + 3 (+ 4) + 1 + 2 + 3 (+ 4) () = breaks / gaps
19:41 OnosakiHito: Second example: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 3 (+4)
19:41 Kurosanyan: Nah, I feel like putting a break before the K would be wrong, I prefer removing the 5 notes and put a D instead.
19:42 OnosakiHito: But that would mean, that you have -probably- to delete at the second +4 some notes as well.
19:42 OnosakiHito: Else it can happen, that your breaks / gaps are placed odd.
19:43 OnosakiHito: Or you delete every first +4 and third +4 some notes (dunno if you know the music theory, do these +4 make sense to you?).
19:44 OnosakiHito: 00:14:252 - ~ 00:16:945 - First stanza section from [ 1 to +4 ]
19:44 OnosakiHito: 00:17:329 - ~ 00:19:637 - Second stanza section from [ 1 to +4]
19:45 OnosakiHito: and so on
19:46 Kurosanyan: I guess +4 means the 4th white tick of a stanza
19:48 OnosakiHito: https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Music_Theory
19:49 Kurosanyan: I'm trying to remake it, then I'll send you the .osz
19:51 OnosakiHito: http://puu.sh/d6wIp/f996bd5a4c.png
19:52 OnosakiHito: Those are the stanzas and how you work in the music theory.
19:53 Kurosanyan: I know :(
19:54 OnosakiHito: Oh okay. :p
19:54 OnosakiHito: I will wait for your update.
19:54 OnosakiHito: In general you might want to remember one thing, which is -if you ask me- something really important:
19:55 OnosakiHito: You can always make an difficulty easier as it could be. But you should never try to make it harder as it normaly should be.
19:55 Kurosanyan: http://puu.sh/d6x3N.osz How about this
19:55 OnosakiHito: Keeping this in mind, can help really a lot.
19:58 OnosakiHito: Great!
19:58 OnosakiHito: Yeah, I see right now that you understand the music theory. Guess I didn't had to explain it.
19:59 Kurosanyan: Well, I mapped a lot
19:59 OnosakiHito: Same can be done at 00:41:560 -
19:59 OnosakiHito: deleting such notes
19:59 Kurosanyan: I just have issues mapping easier difficulties in taiko
19:59 *OnosakiHito is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/153886 Pendulum - The Island (MaxNRG Remix)]
19:59 OnosakiHito: uff
19:59 OnosakiHito: Now I know who you are
19:59 OnosakiHito: sorry. lol
19:59 *OnosakiHito is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/150709 ave;new feat. Sakura Saori - Just Be With You (Short Ver.)]
20:00 *OnosakiHito is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/153393 IOSYS - Endless Tewi-ma Park]
20:00 OnosakiHito: and so on
20:00 Kurosanyan: lol
20:00 OnosakiHito: lol
20:00 Kurosanyan: Just Be With You was crap though
20:00 Kurosanyan: Like most of my maps
20:00 OnosakiHito: old maps
20:00 Kurosanyan: I like Tewi a lot though.
20:02 Kurosanyan: About 00:41:560 - , I feel like it isn't really necessary since this part has mostly 1/1 already and 2 consistent 3/4 breaks
20:03 OnosakiHito: That's a "mistake" many people make.
20:03 OnosakiHito: "It's mapped mostly on 1/1"
20:04 OnosakiHito: If you ask me, try to keep this thinking aside. That's why we have many problems with Kantan or Futsuu maps.
20:04 OnosakiHito: People think 1/1 isn't hard, but put in a long period of time, changes everything.
20:05 Kurosanyan: Yes I know already about how breaks work now that you explained, but 4 big break for only a few notes feels like overdoing it here.
20:05 OnosakiHito: Well, at this point it isn't that urgent like before.
20:06 OnosakiHito: But considering this part, it could have been easier. It's a calm one, which is mapped on a Muzukashii.
20:07 OnosakiHito: You used already many alternative 1/2 patterns, so I'm worried right now about the Inner.
20:07 OnosakiHito: Oh wait, there is only an Oni.
20:07 Kurosanyan: 00:53:868 (2) - I should remove this one though
20:08 OnosakiHito: Well, okay. I guess spread problems we don't have here. The M+O+I set was the 200 BPM one. Sorry.
20:08 Kurosanyan: Are there really no issue with this spread ?
20:08 Kurosanyan: I feel like the Oni is way harder.
20:09 OnosakiHito: A spread is considered as one after you mapped a third diff., so you can compare the gap from diff1-diff2 with diff2-diff3. That's a spread. Just to make that clear.
20:09 OnosakiHito: But it's good that you try to make the Oni not too hard, or the other way around.
20:10 OnosakiHito: 00:05:021 -
20:10 OnosakiHito: It's nearly identical witrh Muzukashii.
20:10 OnosakiHito: with*
20:10 Kurosanyan: Well that's basically why I made the Muzukashii too hard lol
20:11 OnosakiHito: In this case it might be not that urgent. But considering the beginning, Muzu could have been much easier here. Want an example how I would do it...?
20:11 OnosakiHito: - Well, then you can make Muzu a bit easier if you think it would be better in this way.
20:11 Kurosanyan: Why not
20:15 OnosakiHito: Muzu: Either http://puu.sh/d6ymP/5872965413.jpg Monotonically for an pretty easy entrance. Or http://puu.sh/d6yv5/74d5395057.jpg "copy paste patterns" with rise of notes effect. More alternaiting and possibly interesting for players, yet due to similar patterns easy to play.
20:15 OnosakiHito: hilighed notes in second screen are finishers
20:18 OnosakiHito: I would probably use even less notes.
20:18 OnosakiHito: Considering how I map nowadays.
20:18 OnosakiHito: Oh, I think I have a great example for you.
20:18 *OnosakiHito is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/531959 ginkiha - dawn(ginkiha hardcore remix)]
20:18 OnosakiHito: This Muzukashii.
20:19 Kurosanyan: I like the 2nd suggestion.
20:20 Kurosanyan: Though I feel like d kd d kd dk d kd d k k d instead of d kd d kd k d kd D K d would be better.
20:21 OnosakiHito: Depends of you. I find it good when you have your own ideas.
20:21 OnosakiHito: Shows me, that you are really thinking about what you map.
20:23 Kurosanyan: Of course, if I just followed suggestion without thinking, my maps would basically get destroyed every time.
20:24 Kurosanyan: Your suggestions were really helpful though
20:25 Kurosanyan: Way better than "ddd because kkd is oni" or some suggestion telling me to map on vocals for no reason or even sometimes asking me to put a note where's there's nothing.
20:25 Kurosanyan: Thank you Ono <3
Gemu-
Hi!, I'm noob on modding but I will try to help :)

d
k
D (Big d)
K (Big k)

So, my opinion is:

[Kurosanyan's Muzukashi]

00:10:791 - Change to d
00:11:092 - Change to k
00:16:945 - Add a K
00:23:098 - Add a K
00:31:945 - Add a k
00:38:868 - Change to K
00:40:214 - Change to k
00:52:521 - Change to k
01:06:592 - Change to k

[Kurosanyan's Oni]

00:10:214 - Change to d
00:30:021 - Change to k
00:30:214 - Change to k
00:33:098 - Change to k
00:33:291 - Change to k
01:01:752 - Change to d


I hope my modding has served Help :D

Good Luck :oops:
Kurosanyan

game rock wrote:

Hi!, I'm noob on modding but I will try to help :)
If you want to be better at modding, you should try to explain your suggestions to the modder at least. Suggestions with no explanation doesn't help mappers most of the time and can even ruin their map if they lack mapping experience and fix things they shouldn't.

[Kurosanyan's Muzukashi]

00:16:945 - Add a K
00:23:098 - Add a K
00:31:945 - Add a k
^ Won't add notes here. The reason is explained in Onosaki's mod.

00:10:791 - Change to d
00:11:092 - Change to k
00:38:868 - Change to K
00:40:214 - Change to k
00:52:521 - Change to k
01:06:592 - Change to k
^ I don't really agree with those suggestions either. I looked at all of them but none feel necessary/better to me.

[Kurosanyan's Oni]

00:10:214 - Change to d
00:30:021 - Change to k
00:30:214 - Change to k
00:33:098 - Change to k
00:33:291 - Change to k
01:01:752 - Change to d
^ Same here
Gezoda
jack black asked for it


[Muzukashii]
01:05:983 (6,7,8,9) - Are you sure of that ddd k; while every other instance of that rhythm is ddk k ? I strongly recommend to change that to be way more consistent and will play less weird.

[Oni]
00:16:175 (16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23) - d d d ddddd plays a bit oddly, as the don quintuplet has no strong support. I would recommend something like d d ddd d d, but it's up to you to decide whether it's the right decision or not.
00:28:675 (17,18,19,20,21,22) - Maybe put that as 1/2 ? Muzu diff has pretty much nothing here, so it smoothens the difficulty curve.
00:31:752 (39,40,41,42,43,1) - Same here (I feel this part is much denser than what I would expect)

hue that's all
Topic Starter
Setsurei
taiko diffs updated, thanks Gezo
Gezoda
Gonna have a talk with Flower about the standard diffs as they've been changed after the circle icon.
Kurosanyan
I think finding another standard BAT would actually be faster than waiting for Flower to come back if he's gone for Christmas haha.
Gezoda
I think thqt zhqtever oops wrong IME
I think that whatever is the outcome, I'll eventually end up bubbling it. The changes since the circle icon seem minor to me, so let's get that going.

Topic Starter
Setsurei

_Gezo_ wrote:

I think thqt zhqtever oops wrong IME
I think that whatever is the outcome, I'll eventually end up bubbling it. The changes since the circle icon seem minor to me, so let's get that going.

yay! thanks Gezo
Aka
popping this now cause standard diffs are not really ready to go. the sv in normal and hard are fast while spacing is completely low. after fixing it we need to keep the balance in spread so insane needs changes as well. working on it right now with mapper via irc, will rebubble once we are done. i guess we will need one more std BAT there to be 100% sure its good to go.
also nothing should be changed in taiko diffs so we won't have to bother anyone to recheck taiko diffs once again

00:42 Setsurei: owo/
00:47 Aka: hi
00:47 Setsurei: do you accept mod for hybrid sets? I mean my map has been bubbled owo?
00:49 Aka: have you read a googledoc i left on my userpage? u.u
00:51 Setsurei: wait
00:52 Setsurei: the problem is TV size?
00:52 Setsurei: ;w;
00:52 Aka: idk u didnt np me a map
00:52 Aka: D:
00:52 Aka: depends on song then
00:52 *Setsurei is listening to [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/538388 Kalafina - believe~TV size~]
00:52 Setsurei: _(:3
00:53 Aka: :o
00:53 Setsurei: owo?
00:54 Aka: i saw it already
00:54 Aka: on forums
00:54 Aka: i guess
00:54 Aka: there was a complain about trust with t but not T
00:54 Aka: xD
00:54 Setsurei: lol
00:54 Aka: lemme play all diffs then
00:54 Setsurei: please, I'm following the title itself
00:54 Setsurei: >.<
00:56 Setsurei: O_O SS
00:56 Aka: D:
01:03 Setsurei: brb gonna eat breakfast
01:04 Aka: okei
01:16 Aka: tellme when ure back '^'
01:25 Setsurei: back owo
01:28 Aka: okay
01:29 Aka: metadata got checked?
01:29 Setsurei: I think I did
01:29 Setsurei: lol wait
01:30 Setsurei: [http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/Music/Arch/SMER/kalafina/SECL-1617/index.html title] [http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/artist/ayanomashiro/info/447216 source]
01:32 Aka: what about song's title
01:32 Setsurei: the first link o.o
01:32 Aka: oh
01:32 Aka: it was
01:32 Aka: 2 links lol
01:32 Setsurei: combined lol
01:33 Aka: okay sD
01:33 Aka: xD
01:33 Aka: so
01:33 *Aka is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/538386 Kalafina - believe~TV size~ [Easy]]
01:33 Aka: 00:38:483 (4,1) - would better to swap objects so slider would start from downbeat http://puu.sh/dCThk/61e8d8b538.jpg i guess
01:34 Setsurei: yeah that sounds better
01:38 Setsurei: I think the mods continue later (you need to sleep too right?), I need to go to church in 20 mins from now
01:38 Aka: 0.0
01:38 Aka: aaaaaaaaaa
01:38 Aka: okay i'll post in map's thread
01:38 Aka: good luck =v=/
01:38 Setsurei: ah thanks owo7
03:35 Setsurei: o.o
03:36 Aka: @.@ omg i got distracted
03:37 Setsurei: lol no no, it's ok, I chat that to let you know that I'm home already
03:44 Aka: m so
03:44 Aka: i can irc with u?
03:45 Setsurei: sure
03:48 Aka: oookay so
03:48 *Aka is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/538389 Kalafina - believe~TV size~ [Normal]]
03:48 *Setsurei is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/538389 Kalafina - believe~TV size~ [Normal]]
03:48 Aka: 0.70x spacing for such fast sv is pretty low
03:49 Setsurei: so, 0.8x?
03:49 Aka: or even 0.9
03:49 Aka: 0.85 lol
03:49 Setsurei: lol
03:49 Setsurei: ok
03:50 Aka: can you make it with 0.85 and update?
03:50 Setsurei: ok wait
03:50 Aka: so it will be easier to work with
03:50 Aka: okay
04:12 Setsurei: updated
04:13 Aka: good
04:13 Aka: and star rating got up a bit
04:13 Setsurei: lol
04:13 Aka: was 1.83
04:13 Aka: p:
04:14 Setsurei: yeah
04:15 Aka: 00:13:291 (5,6) - better to get rid of these endings and replace some of patterns like these with 1/2 slider
04:15 Aka: you have lots of circles
04:16 Setsurei: ok
04:16 Aka: but exactly there
04:16 Aka: would be better to make this 00:13:483 (6,7) - as a slider
04:16 Aka: and leave 5 where it is
04:17 Aka: cause of that long guitar sound where 6 is
04:17 Aka: or not
04:17 Aka: OMG
04:17 Aka: nvm
04:17 Setsurei: wait
04:17 Setsurei: which one is the correct one
04:17 Setsurei: lol
04:17 Aka: 00:13:291 (5,6) - 1/2 slider
04:17 Aka: pelase
04:17 Aka: D:
04:17 Setsurei: ok
04:19 Aka: 00:26:560 (1,2,3) - technically you have the same music part as here 00:29:637 (1,2,3) -
04:20 Setsurei: I do that to make variation actually
04:20 Setsurei: so I need to be constant?
04:22 Aka: personally i'd make this part with the same rhythm :\
04:22 Aka: but up to you though
04:22 Aka: its just noticeable
04:23 Aka: variation is good but 00:32:714 (1) - long sliders are kinda more to East style
04:23 Aka: Easy(
04:23 Aka: Easy*
04:23 Setsurei: I'll cut to half then
04:23 Aka: yeah and a circle after would be good
04:26 Setsurei: ok
04:28 Aka: 00:43:483 (1) - pretty inconsistent part with nc '^' i dont really see a reason for it since it was pretty long before
04:29 Setsurei: oh lol I forgot, since I only look at the long ticks
04:29 Aka: lel
04:31 Aka: 00:48:868 (2) - shouldnt there be also a whistle?
04:31 Setsurei: SCV asked me to remove
04:31 Aka: o.o
04:32 Setsurei: wait I forgot
04:32 Setsurei: lol
04:32 Aka: D:
04:32 Setsurei: I think a finish there
04:33 Aka: nah, it would be too loud
04:33 Setsurei: but uh, only on Easy o.o
04:33 Setsurei: should Easy be removed too?
04:34 Setsurei: 00:48:868 -
04:34 Aka: mmmmmm
04:34 Aka: it actually feels good in easy
04:34 Setsurei: well yeah since it is the end
04:34 Setsurei: and pauses
04:34 Aka: yeah
04:34 Setsurei: so much anomali on maps orz
04:35 Aka: xD
04:35 Aka: so just add to normal's slider i guess
04:35 Setsurei: so Normal Hard Insane add whistle too?
04:35 Aka: omg idk
04:35 Aka: lets just slightly move to them
04:35 Aka: not jump
04:35 Aka: D:
04:36 Aka: finish with normal and go to hard
04:36 Setsurei: ok
04:36 Aka: 00:56:945 (1) - downbeaaat
04:36 Setsurei: 5 switch with 1?
04:37 Setsurei: or wait, 1/2 + HC?
04:37 Setsurei: isn't that too hard?
04:37 Aka: yyeeep
04:37 Aka: its not
04:37 Aka: its exactly normal's level
04:37 Setsurei: ok
04:37 Aka: i guess clicking circles is much harder
04:38 Aka: like 1/2+hc easier than 3 hs
04:38 Aka: hc
04:38 Aka: *
04:38 Setsurei: oh ook
04:38 Aka: also in this part a lot of reverse sliders are
04:38 Aka: 01:00:406 (3) - at least make this one simple 1/1?
04:40 Setsurei: 01:00:406 (3) - 01:01:175 - this part gone?
04:40 Aka: circle
04:40 Aka: :o
04:41 Aka: http://puu.sh/dD6tO/2ac45714fa.jpg maybe
04:44 Setsurei: still prefer the blanket, so this is ok ? http://puu.sh/dD6AO.jpg
04:45 Aka: yea
04:49 Aka: 01:14:252 (1) - again about those looongs sliders
04:49 Setsurei: okay
04:49 Setsurei: lol
04:50 Setsurei: 01:20:406 (3) - this one too D:
04:50 Aka: 01:17:714 (2,3,4) - plssssssssss http://puu.sh/dD71B/04df9c7e33.jpg
04:50 Setsurei: I love the slider art there
04:51 Aka: nop, this slider fits
04:51 Aka: there is a long vocal sound
04:51 Setsurei: phew
04:51 Aka: and there 01:14:252 (1) - you have a phrase
04:52 Setsurei: oh right
04:57 Setsurei: 01:17:714 (2,3,4) - changed
04:58 Aka: okay then hard's time '^'
05:01 Aka: sssssssssssso starting from hard
05:01 Aka: im a bit worrying about the spread thingy
05:02 Setsurei: owo/
05:02 Aka: D;
05:02 Aka: would be nice to lower the sv of hard
05:02 Setsurei: eh?
05:02 Setsurei: when I count it, Normal - Hard - Insane
05:02 Setsurei: has balanced differences star rate
05:02 Setsurei: and now since Normal increased,
05:03 Setsurei: N-H gap is smaller than H-I gap
05:03 Aka: i didnt finish =A+
05:03 Aka: =A=
05:03 Aka: wanted to continue with
05:03 Setsurei: oh sorry
05:03 Aka: BUT if you do it, u'll have to also lower a bit insane's one
05:03 Aka: =v=
05:04 Aka: so im a bit confused
05:04 Setsurei: "'°|¯|_
05:04 Aka: wao
05:04 Aka: so whatever
05:04 Aka: lets leave it as it is
05:04 Aka: just add 0.5 to ar
05:04 Setsurei: okay
05:05 Aka: 00:48:868 (2) - whistle 3:
05:06 Setsurei: oki
05:10 Aka: strange that it has such a low star rating
05:10 Aka: with lots of circles and triplets lol
05:10 Setsurei: blame star rate algorithm
05:10 Setsurei: lol
05:10 Setsurei: that's why I was trying to increase it with lots of triplets
05:11 Aka: you had to increase it with spacing
05:11 Aka: lol
05:11 Aka: i guess
05:11 Aka: cause
05:11 Aka: its now feels the same like normal
05:11 Aka: past normal
05:11 Aka: fast sv and tiny spacing between
05:12 Setsurei: "'°|¯|_
05:12 Aka: /w\
05:13 Setsurei: so the better solution is?
05:13 Setsurei: incr the spacing?
05:13 Aka: yea, now just make it with bigger spacing
05:14 Setsurei: 1.0?
05:14 Aka: yeea
05:15 Aka: but still the sv is damn fast
05:16 Aka: im doodling around and making it with ar8 and 1.2x and its like ideal
05:16 Aka: lel
05:16 Setsurei: 1.2? o.o
05:16 Setsurei: -0.5
05:16 Aka: nvm xD
05:16 Setsurei: isn't that too slow?
05:16 Setsurei: haha
05:16 Aka: 1.2x spacing
05:16 Aka: :D
05:16 Setsurei: ooh
05:17 Setsurei: I thought you mention the SV
05:17 Setsurei: lol
05:17 Aka: naaaah
05:17 Aka: im wondering
05:17 Setsurei: if 1.2 the problem is with 1/2 streams
05:17 Setsurei: owait 1/4 streams
05:17 Setsurei: I mean
05:17 Setsurei: it's too far
05:17 Aka: triplets*
05:17 Setsurei: yes
05:17 Setsurei: ahaha
05:18 Aka: why dont you just use lower spacing for triplets then :o
05:18 Aka: anyway
05:18 Aka: im wondering
05:18 Aka: if increasing a spacing
05:18 Aka: and lowering sv by 0.1 would work
05:18 Aka: and then blabla lowering in insane by 0.1 too
05:18 Aka: ............
05:18 Aka: uff
Kurosanyan
Just want to add before it eventually gets ranked that tags need to be changed too. This is UBW by ufotable, not Deen. Surprised no one said anything about this until now.
I think that "Gekijouban" is something from Deen's UBW and should be removed too, but I'm not sure about this and the other tags.
Topic Starter
Setsurei

Kurosanyan wrote:

Just want to add before it eventually gets ranked that tags need to be changed too. This is UBW by ufotable, not Deen. Surprised no one said anything about this until now.
I think that "Gekijouban" is something from Deen's UBW and should be removed too, but I'm not sure about this and the other tags.
added the 'ufotable', and removed gekijouban and studio deen

edit: removed the romajis, per Lanturn check, thanks!
Irreversible
Hi there!

trust

I just want to give my general opinion to this difficulty.

We have a lot of possibilites to express the song in a good way and these possibilities should be used. There are calm and exciting parts in this song; so why not expressing these as such?

Let's say the song is built up like this:

00:01:945 (1) - Just a calm intro Slow SV can be used to give the player a smooth lead in.
0:05:021 (1) - Vocals appear, it gets more exciting. I wouldn't change the SV, but maybe follow the vocals / change the density
00:11:175 - Guitar sounds, which is an unusual change in that moment with a finish off 00:13:868 (7) - here I guess that part is mapped alright, 00:11:175 (1) - I'd just map this with 1/2. 00:13:483 (5,6) - This is pretty much overmapped and doesn't really compliment the song. 00:13:868 (7) - How about a special slider to finish off cooler? An extremely round one, idk, it's up to your fantasy.
00:14:252 - Here's the "normal" part, so to say. Time for 1.00x SV, and normal stuff
00:26:560 - - Her voice gets more dramatic, excellently covered by the stronger getting instruments in the background No SV changes, but maybe an increasing of the spacing would fit.
00:38:868 (1) - Her voice changes again, to a less dramatic style, yet more powerful than at 00:14:252, to build up tension. Use some jumps here, and dont' cover 00:50:214 - this beat with a slider end, since it's too powerful to be wasted.
00:51:175 (1) - It gets a bit calmer right now. Less jumps, preferably slower SV.
00:57:329 (1) - The instruments try to lead-in the chorus, as you can see, they get more powerful. 00:57:329 (1,2,3,4) - That part is completely wasted with using so low spacing, increase it or also increase the density
00:58:868 (1) - Tension is released, the kiai starts (although I have to admit, the vocals aren't that powerful here). As said, it's not really too powerful, 1.0 or 1.1 would be cool here, just as you did. Hgiher spacing helps emphasising the fact it's a kiai.
01:20:406 (1) - End of the chorus, the song is slowly coming to an end. progressingly increasing the jumps, or something like that.
01:21:945 (1) - Instruments try to emphasise the song for a last time. streams were a good chioce here.

All these things said are to emphasize the song in a suitable way, but of course that's really subjective. It's how you could bring your maps to a new level, but if you don't want to use these things, I can't do much about it.

Just my two cents anyway. Good luck with improving your map!
Topic Starter
Setsurei

Irreversible wrote:

Hi there!

trust

I just want to give my general opinion to this difficulty.

We have a lot of possibilites to express the song in a good way and these possibilities should be used. There are calm and exciting parts in this song; so why not expressing these as such?

Let's say the song is built up like this:

00:01:945 (1) - Just a calm intro Slow SV can be used to give the player a smooth lead in. agreed
0:05:021 (1) - Vocals appear, it gets more exciting. I wouldn't change the SV, but maybe follow the vocals / change the density triplets are everywhere o.o imo the density is quite dense
00:11:175 - Guitar sounds, which is an unusual change in that moment with a finish off 00:13:868 (7) - here I guess that part is mapped alright, 00:11:175 (1) - I'd just map this with 1/2. 00:13:483 (5,6) - This is pretty much overmapped and doesn't really compliment the song. 00:13:868 (7) - How about a special slider to finish off cooler? An extremely round one, idk, it's up to your fantasy. 00:11:175 (1) - changed to ½ and followed by HC, changed the 00:13:868 (7) - shape, 00:13:483 (5,6) - about these two jumps, I wanted to emphasize the strong beat on (7) and the (5,6) gives the 'preparation phase' or whatsoever it is called
00:14:252 - Here's the "normal" part, so to say. Time for 1.00x SV, and normal stuff deleted a ¼ note, and did some distance fix on several objects
00:26:560 - - Her voice gets more dramatic, excellently covered by the stronger getting instruments in the background No SV changes, but maybe an increasing of the spacing would fit. increased a bit
00:38:868 (1) - Her voice changes again, to a less dramatic style, yet more powerful than at 00:14:252, to build up tension. Use some jumps here, and dont' cover 00:50:214 - this beat with a slider end, since it's too powerful to be wasted. fix some at front, and converted the slider to 2 HCs
00:51:175 (1) - It gets a bit calmer right now. Less jumps, preferably slower SV. decreased the jump gap, and changed the SV multiplier at that part, still preserve 00:56:945 - 00:57:233 - 2 ½ slider combo
00:57:329 (1) - The instruments try to lead-in the chorus, as you can see, they get more powerful. 00:57:329 (1,2,3,4) - That part is completely wasted with using so low spacing, increase it or also increase the density prefer to increase the gap
00:58:868 (1) - Tension is released, the kiai starts (although I have to admit, the vocals aren't that powerful here). As said, it's not really too powerful, 1.0 or 1.1 would be cool here, just as you did. Hgiher spacing helps emphasising the fact it's a kiai.
01:20:406 (1) - End of the chorus, the song is slowly coming to an end. progressingly increasing the jumps, or something like that. I prefer it to be constant here
01:21:945 (1) - Instruments try to emphasise the song for a last time. streams were a good chioce here. convert the slider to stream

All these things said are to emphasize the song in a suitable way, but of course that's really subjective. It's how you could bring your maps to a new level, but if you don't want to use these things, I can't do much about it.

Just my two cents anyway. Good luck with improving your map!
thanks Irre! - updated
LexiaLovesU
You requested me to mod the insane diff

Key:
Red = Unrankable
Blue = Highly Suggested



trust

  1. Remove ED from tags since search has a minimun of 3 letters to search so its basically useless
  2. 00:09:445 (8) - I feel like your making the flow a bit too much back and fort movement doing that so much is quite repeptitive why dont you make 8 go here instead
  3. 00:11:752 (3,4,5) - Personal preference here i think stacking these is better for gampley to be honest since i think following DS with a triple then going into a 1/2 note is pretty awkward to play at least with my playstyle ;w;
  4. 00:19:445 (4) - This is pretty unnoticable since the slider was previouly there it comes out rather suddenly i think you should move it a bit so that it will be more noticable in game owo
  5. 00:26:368 (9) - Again pretty unoticable since of the same reason as above i think you should just stack it on top of 00:26:560 (1) - it looks better there and plays better aswell
  6. 00:28:483 (2,3) - the flow betwewn these 2 notes is pretty odd since you made 2's body flow away from 3's placement normally this wouldnt be an issue in insane but since you made a star pattern after it the flow should generally but smooth so the player doesnt find himself lost try this timing placement instead
  7. 00:34:829 (4,5) - Im gonna be honest it may just be me but i hate jumping into regular ds XD for me its so awkward to jump then stop the momentum to go into regular ds again not to mention that 5 was a pretty powerful vocal i think stacking 5 under 4 is better for gameplay
  8. 00:48:771 (4) - Fix this blanket ;w;
  9. 00:54:925 (4,5) - The blanket is so off its painful xD
  10. 00:57:329 (1,2,3,4) - The Placement of these notes is sorta random it doesnt make much sense tbh and it makes your map look less proffesional I suggest you revise it a bit
  11. 01:01:560 (4) - Move this a little bit so that it gets blanketed properly with 01:01:175 (3) - Please xD
  12. 01:01:752 (5) - This is really close to the sliders tail move it a bit so that it doesnt look like it about to overlap with the tail
  13. 01:09:060 (5,6,7) - Instead of stacking these the same as 01:08:483 (2,3,4) - why dont you get creative and do something else with these notes you could try this maybe doing studd like this will give your map more variety to it and make your maps more enjoyable to play since you wont be doing the same patterns over and over again that becomes boring
  14. 01:13:675 (3,4,5) - This type of flow is super straight forward and its a bit of a pain in the ass to hit tbh since the flow is so straight foward its hard to hit in 1 go as in its makes it easier to overshoot or undershoot the notes lol
  15. 01:20:983 (3,4,5) - Same as above xD

    Thats it nice diff pretty enjoyable to play owo

Good luck hopefully this helps >w<
Topic Starter
Setsurei

LexiaLovesU wrote:

You requested me to mod the insane diff

Key:
Red = Unrankable
Blue = Highly Suggested



trust

  1. Remove ED from tags since search has a minimun of 3 letters to search so its basically useless 2 letters are still searchable on the client, so I'll keep this
  2. 00:09:445 (8) - I feel like your making the flow a bit too much back and fort movement doing that so much is quite repeptitive why dont you make 8 go here instead agreed
  3. 00:11:752 (3,4,5) - Personal preference here i think stacking these is better for gampley to be honest since i think following DS with a triple then going into a 1/2 note is pretty awkward to play at least with my playstyle ;w; ok
  4. 00:19:445 (4) - This is pretty unnoticable since the slider was previouly there it comes out rather suddenly i think you should move it a bit so that it will be more noticable in game owo slider already gone before the object is there, so I'll keep
  5. 00:26:368 (9) - Again pretty unoticable since of the same reason as above i think you should just stack it on top of 00:26:560 (1) - it looks better there and plays better aswell same case as ^
  6. 00:28:483 (2,3) - the flow betwewn these 2 notes is pretty odd since you made 2's body flow away from 3's placement normally this wouldnt be an issue in insane but since you made a star pattern after it the flow should generally but smooth so the player doesnt find himself lost try this timing placement instead changed the curve also the object before
  7. 00:34:829 (4,5) - Im gonna be honest it may just be me but i hate jumping into regular ds XD for me its so awkward to jump then stop the momentum to go into regular ds again not to mention that 5 was a pretty powerful vocal i think stacking 5 under 4 is better for gameplay ok, stacked and fix some objects
  8. 00:48:771 (4) - Fix this blanket ;w; fixed
  9. 00:54:925 (4,5) - The blanket is so off its painful xD ^
  10. 00:57:329 (1,2,3,4) - The Placement of these notes is sorta random it doesnt make much sense tbh and it makes your map look less proffesional I suggest you revise it a bit fix (1) and (4)
  11. 01:01:560 (4) - Move this a little bit so that it gets blanketed properly with 01:01:175 (3) - Please xD fixed
  12. 01:01:752 (5) - This is really close to the sliders tail move it a bit so that it doesnt look like it about to overlap with the tail ^
  13. 01:09:060 (5,6,7) - Instead of stacking these the same as 01:08:483 (2,3,4) - why dont you get creative and do something else with these notes you could try this maybe doing studd like this will give your map more variety to it and make your maps more enjoyable to play since you wont be doing the same patterns over and over again that becomes boring good idea, changed
  14. 01:13:675 (3,4,5) - This type of flow is super straight forward and its a bit of a pain in the ass to hit tbh since the flow is so straight foward its hard to hit in 1 go as in its makes it easier to overshoot or undershoot the notes lol fixed
  15. 01:20:983 (3,4,5) - Same as above xD ^

    Thats it nice diff pretty enjoyable to play owo

Good luck hopefully this helps >w<
thanks for mod! - updated owo
Momochikun
hi, mod for Insane as requested :c

[trust]
Personally i feel AR 9 is a bit too much for this kind of song, also that make a big AR gap with your Hard diff that only has (7,3) rating. Try reduce it a bit ? around 8,5~ should be softer to play imo
  1. 00:05:021 (1) - 1/2 slider with note would give more sense to catch the instrument at 00:05:214 - if you ask me, also it's kind of weird that you emphasize instrument like this at the other parts ex : 00:06:560 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - when this one got skipped clearly.
  2. 00:08:483 (2) - There're a kind of another instrument played here, something like drum sampleset or whistle should fit perfectly imo
  3. 00:11:945 (5,6,7) - This transition plays weirdly since you only used 1 jump in notes pattern when they're no musical different between those two, also this (6) placement make your star pattern broken. Make it at same spacing ?
  4. 00:14:252 (1) - You'll need finish here to fit 00:13:868 (7) - rhythm and to cover the high sound at the music
  5. From now on this part 00:14:252 - until 00:38:868 - i've seen that your clap pattern is a bit off for me. As it covers the drum hit, why don't you add it on all the white ticks instead of just 1-3 / 2-4 beat ? since the music does cover a same sound it would create more sense, and that's mean you could add clap at stuffs like : 00:14:637 (2,4) - 00:16:175 (3) - 00:17:714 (2,6) - 00:19:252 (3) - 00:20:406 (1,6) - etc.
  6. 00:15:021 (3) - Try Ctrl H for better flow maybe ? just my opinion about pattern
  7. 00:36:560 (4,6,7,1) - Well, personally i found it confusing to have them perfectly overlapped, move one of them a bit instead ?
  8. 00:43:098 (6) - How'bout stacking this with 00:41:945 (1) - ? i think the flow was more smoth this way
  9. 00:57:329 (1,2,3,4) - Just imo, but i think this kind of boring with just have 4 notes separated with 1/1 rhythm to cover the cymbals when there're plenty of epic drums that could be emphasized by stream at this part, it's insane diff man x)
  10. 01:03:098 (5) - I've got idea of pattern here, see if you like it to fix the flow in my taste o.o
  11. 01:06:175 (5) - aesthetical minor stuffs, this curved slider were like out of place since you used slightly curved ones along the diff, make this slightly more soft so it wouldn;t look cramped ?
  12. 01:14:829 (4) - I prefer ctrl g here
  13. 01:17:714 (3,4,5) - The music doesn't justify any sound here that means this triplet doesn't really a good choice, delete (4) ?
  14. 01:22:137 (3) - missing whistle
  15. 01:22:714 (8) - NC maybe ? since it's different pattern.. also (14) was so long lol
Kibbleru
some suggestions for insane

00:10:791 (6,7) - (7) is a pretty weak sound, it may be better to just combine these into a slider
00:06:368 (7,1) - you can have a small jump here to emphasize the downbeat and NC
circle patterns like 00:05:791 (4,5,6,7) - could really be improved, try to make the curves look even and stuff
00:11:175 (1,2,3) - ds a bit weird here o-o, why does it decrease for 00:11:560 (2,3) - ?
00:57:329 (1) - tbh would look better if you arranged this circle to somewhere like 112 / 288 to keep the circular flow. ofc you'll need to rearrange objects after this
01:22:714 (8) - nc would fit well here imo
00:13:868 (7) - if you extended this to the blue tick, i think would give some nice buildup and emphasize the guitars nicely
Topic Starter
Setsurei

Momochikun wrote:

hi, mod for Insane as requested :c

[trust]
Personally i feel AR 9 is a bit too much for this kind of song, also that make a big AR gap with your Hard diff that only has (7,3) rating. Try reduce it a bit ? around 8,5~ should be softer to play imo changed this to 8.7
  1. 00:05:021 (1) - 1/2 slider with note would give more sense to catch the instrument at 00:05:214 - if you ask me, also it's kind of weird that you emphasize instrument like this at the other parts ex : 00:06:560 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - when this one got skipped clearly. ok, changed to ½ and add HC
  2. 00:08:483 (2) - There're a kind of another instrument played here, something like drum sampleset or whistle should fit perfectly imo its fine as it is o.o
  3. 00:11:945 (5,6,7) - This transition plays weirdly since you only used 1 jump in notes pattern when they're no musical different between those two, also this (6) placement make your star pattern broken. Make it at same spacing ? fixed
  4. 00:14:252 (1) - You'll need finish here to fit 00:13:868 (7) - rhythm and to cover the high sound at the music too loud and noticeable weird, so no change
  5. From now on this part 00:14:252 - until 00:38:868 - i've seen that your clap pattern is a bit off for me. As it covers the drum hit, why don't you add it on all the white ticks instead of just 1-3 / 2-4 beat ? since the music does cover a same sound it would create more sense, and that's mean you could add clap at stuffs like : 00:14:637 (2,4) - 00:16:175 (3) - 00:17:714 (2,6) - 00:19:252 (3) - 00:20:406 (1,6) - etc. I like the sound as it is
  6. 00:15:021 (3) - Try Ctrl H for better flow maybe ? just my opinion about pattern ok
  7. 00:36:560 (4,6,7,1) - Well, personally i found it confusing to have them perfectly overlapped, move one of them a bit instead ? orz the overlap is fine, I tested it
  8. 00:43:098 (6) - How'bout stacking this with 00:41:945 (1) - ? i think the flow was more smoth this way ok
  9. 00:57:329 (1,2,3,4) - Just imo, but i think this kind of boring with just have 4 notes separated with 1/1 rhythm to cover the cymbals when there're plenty of epic drums that could be emphasized by stream at this part, it's insane diff man x) emphasize the finish D:
  10. 01:03:098 (5) - I've got idea of pattern here, see if you like it to fix the flow in my taste o.o uuh, I love these patterns orz
  11. 01:06:175 (5) - aesthetical minor stuffs, this curved slider were like out of place since you used slightly curved ones along the diff, make this slightly more soft so it wouldn;t look cramped ? ok
  12. 01:14:829 (4) - I prefer ctrl g here ^
  13. 01:17:714 (3,4,5) - The music doesn't justify any sound here that means this triplet doesn't really a good choice, delete (4) ? ^
  14. 01:22:137 (3) - missing whistle imo this one no need
  15. 01:22:714 (8) - NC maybe ? since it's different pattern.. also (14) was so long lol ok

Kibbleru wrote:

some suggestions for insane

00:10:791 (6,7) - (7) is a pretty weak sound, it may be better to just combine these into a slider ok
00:06:368 (7,1) - you can have a small jump here to emphasize the downbeat and NC ^
circle patterns like 00:05:791 (4,5,6,7) - could really be improved, try to make the curves look even and stuff fixed
00:11:175 (1,2,3) - ds a bit weird here o-o, why does it decrease for 00:11:560 (2,3) - ? ^
00:57:329 (1) - tbh would look better if you arranged this circle to somewhere like 112 / 288 to keep the circular flow. ofc you'll need to rearrange objects after this ^
01:22:714 (8) - nc would fit well here imo did on previous mod
00:13:868 (7) - if you extended this to the blue tick, i think would give some nice buildup and emphasize the guitars nicely ok
thanks for mod guys! - updated owo
Aka
rechekku


easy

・00:56:560 (2,3,1,2) - actually the biggest pressure gets on this part 00:57:329 (1,2) - , so i guess placing there 2 circles instead feel better? o:



hard

・00:58:868 (1,2) - take this damn circle out :( i thought we discussed this one before D:
・00:13:483 (3,4,5) - triples is pretty much invented, there is just a long guitar sound, nothing more. and since insane diff has been nerfed, it wont beat on spread or anything
・00:25:021 (1) - this part would be nice to play by following vocals, i suppose:





insane

・01:13:675 (3,4) - that 2.30 feels too much imo. maybe stacking it with this 01:14:637 (3) - would work, meh
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