oh, that's a good point, if I had to guess it's based on statistics with some subjective touch to it.
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Add pp as a scoring system in standard mode
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Topic Starter
but oranges do taste better, especially the juice that comes from them
I can confirm thisKyou-kun wrote:
but oranges do taste better, especially the juice that comes from them
Once we figure that out there's still the major issue with comparing FL to pretty much anything elseRailander wrote:
one thing i have no idea how could be made properly is weighting difficulty categories against each other.Kyou-kun wrote:
I wonder if I would actually get pp for DTing maps which I think are hard if the system actually distinguished between aim/speed/accuracy pp like it should
for instance, when does X speed become harder (worth more) than Y aim/acc?
When it comes to aim/speed/accuracy though, using your oranges to apples analogy, you just need to find some common ground between the fruits to compare them to each other. For example; The orange may not be tastier than the apple, but its color is most certainly more intense - that's objective, so if you're looking for the fruit with the "warmest" color, the orange wins. If you're looking for the least acidic fruit, the apple wins. We can apply the same to the three basic skills required to play this game. The common ground between aim, accuracy and speed is strain.
So, what you'd like to know is the amount of strain each category gives you within each map. A 150BPM OD10 map with lots of streams but no jumps obviously gives more strain in terms of staying accurate than in terms of aim or speed (it's easy to fc the map, but harder to ss it). If it's high BPM but pretty much only 1/2 and highly spaced at OD7 CS5, then aim is clearly the leading factor. Lastly, high BPM and note density with low spacing and OD makes speed the most straining attribute of that map.
Now, not all maps are this straightforward, but this does give us some guidelines to look for - accuracy is basically OD + amount of hit circles. The higher those two values are, the higher your accuracy pp value should be. Aim is BPM, spacing, and circle size, as well as awkward angles but pp doesn't really take that into account yet. And speed is BPM + note density. So, a map such as Freedom Dive [FOUR DIMENSIONS] will give lots of pp, even if you don't ss it, because there are high values in all three attributes - there's a shitton of notes, it's OD8, there's lots of streams at a high bpm and the streams are spaced, as well as matched by some tricky jumps - in short, the strain this map puts on a player is very high. I wouldn't be surprised if 99% with HR on that map would give over 700pp.
In short, all we need to do to compare skills is by finding some common ground between them. Which is why it's so hard to give a proper value to FL because it has no common ground with anything. There's no physical strain for FL, it is purely mental strain, and the other skills simply don't take mental strain into account yet. Giving it a value will probably be more possible once pattern complexity and reading difficulty are taken into account for pp. By that point we'd have 2 types of strain, physical and mental, which can be compared to each other as wholes because they're both "strain", but the individual aspects that makes up each of those 2 types (aim, speed and accuracy for physical, and pattern complexity, approach rate and reading mods for mental) can not really, since you can't weigh the strain of aiming a map against reading it, since the two go hand in hand.
It's a bit of a tricky issue but we'll find an answer at some point.
Topic Starter
Ohrami wrote:
but really men why isn't this in the game yet
tired of not being able to get pp because i have a better no mod "score".. or losing pp because i beat the score but have terrible acc with mods.Ohrami wrote:
Ohrami wrote:
but really men why isn't this in the game yet
Separate score submissions for mods is planned and wip in case you don't read osu dev twitter/blogs.
pp has long been integrated in standard mode? or is there a different matter now
Lol
This thread is about the most-pp worthy scores being your submitted score, and not the one with the highest amount of points
Pp>Points
This thread is about the most-pp worthy scores being your submitted score, and not the one with the highest amount of points
Pp>Points
This thread is about the score with the highest pp being #1 on a map, not submitting your highest pp giving score.baraatje123 wrote:
Lol
This thread is about the most-pp worthy scores being your submitted score, and not the one with the highest amount of points
Pp>Points
Topic Starter
it's really about bothjesus1412 wrote:
This thread is about the score with the highest pp being #1 on a map, not submitting your highest pp giving score.baraatje123 wrote:
Lol
This thread is about the most-pp worthy scores being your submitted score, and not the one with the highest amount of points
Pp>Points
+1 for this idea.
Unfortunately cannot say this better because:
When you try to say "S uppo rting this idea!"
Unfortunately cannot say this better because:
When you try to say "S uppo rting this idea!"
Isn't this basically added now, now that mod-specific score are all saved?
Imagine a simple beatmap with 2 FC's, all 100's get on the very first few notes:Bara- wrote:
Isn't this basically added now, now that mod-specific score are all saved?
HDHR 95% acc (1.12 multiplier)
DT 94% acc (1.12 multiplier)
The HDHR play gives the most score on beatmaps, however
DT is worth more pp, and for most maps, (few exclusions in very old maps), DT requires more skill than HDHR.
The PP calculation sytem knows this: DT FC on a map should be awarded more than a HDHR FC, and so it awards the DT play more pp, however, the scoring system works differently, very skillful plays don't come in the top50, especially chokes.
Example: Score multiplier changes won't fix this as: Kneesocks+DT choke 500pp < Kneesocks(nomod) FC 250pp scoringwise. (The DT play on kneesocks takes huge amount of skill, yet the nomod play gives way more scoring)
I myself think that Scoring system and PP system, even though they work very differently, can live fine along each other. All the top50 old scores that have been set with so much effort would be lost and would break many people's hearts. That's too big of a loss in my opinion.
You do know that the DT play now gives pp right? Or at least it works that way in Mania (or am I misunderstanding something?)
Bara- wrote:
You do know that the DT play now gives pp right? Or at least it works that way in Mania (or am I misunderstanding something?)
Barry, it's about the scoring system, the top50 scores, to behave like the pp system calculates pp.
http://puu.sh/tt3FZ/7b52e4dd2b.jpg see this? Even though HDDT is a choke, it requires way more skill than the HD play. PP-wise, it would end up allright, the DT score will be submitted and would give more pp than the HD score,
But if you go for a global top50, the HD has more score, even though it's much harder to set that HDDT choke play. Scoring doesn't take skill in account, so the most skillful plays, might not be in the top50. That's the problem asserted in this post, and the solution would be to make the score calculation ~the same as the pp calculation.
WAIT
I have literally been misinterpreting this request for years O.o
Never mind, you are right, my bad... Sorry
I have literally been misinterpreting this request for years O.o
Never mind, you are right, my bad... Sorry
So its basically leader-board scores, sorting by the pp worth not the score total?
I kinda like that, since then the good plays of DT 6* fc's will show instead of those HD fc's that no one really pays attention to due to being so common
I kinda like that, since then the good plays of DT 6* fc's will show instead of those HD fc's that no one really pays attention to due to being so common
I literally have spent the last hour going through some awesome feature requests like this one, and NONE of them has been implemented, and most of them are 3/5 years old. This kinda works the same as reporting, I once reported a guy (very obvious account sharing), but months later I found out that the player was never punished and even kept sharing his account. I don't know how osu staff work, but they seem pretty lazy, no big changes since I started playing osu 7 months ago, and that's a lot of time compared to any other games.
Not sure about lazy, but the developers have not been working on implementing these feature request because they have been putting all of their efforts into osu!lazer, which is a complete client and website rework. This new client will include some of the more popular feature request, not sure about this one thoughJuan_98 wrote:
I literally have spent the last hour going through some awesome feature requests like this one, and NONE of them has been implemented, and most of them are 3/5 years old. This kinda works the same as reporting, I once reported a guy (very obvious account sharing), but months later I found out that the player was never punished and even kept sharing his account. I don't know how osu staff work, but they seem pretty lazy, no big changes since I started playing osu 7 months ago, and that's a lot of time compared to any other games.
I know but, how long could it take. I know that they are focused on osu!lazer, but come on, the whole developer team? Well maybe they don't want to make any changes to the actual osu becuase it would be senseless since osu!lazer will have the new features already. But still, how long has it been since osu!lazer has been showed up for the first time?