At a time where we have more osu! originals than ever before in the history of osu, it's important we make the best use of the amazing songs we receive by ensuring each original gets ranked. Based off of the lengths of the past 40 originals (tbs excluded), id propose the following.

osu! originals are subject to relaxed to spread requirements

- Between 1:30 - 2:00 must either include a difficulty at Normal or lower or provide a spread containing at least 4 difficulties.
- Between 2:00 - 2:45 must either include a difficulty at Hard or lower or provide a spread containing at least 3 difficulties.
- Between 2:45 - 3:30 must either include a difficulty at Insane or lower or provide a spread containing at least 2 difficulties.
- 3:30 or above may be considered as Marathon length.

In order for songs to qualify for these requirements, they must have the pink ORIGINAL tag in the Featured Artists listing.

Stats about the last 40 world cup originals
Between 1:30 - 2:00: 0%
Between 2:00 - 3:00: 71%~
Between 3:00 - 3:30: 19%~
3:30+ 10%~

Why is this necessary?
Upon evaluating different modes ranking their world cup originals, there are generally few of them that take over a year to reach the ranked section (except for 4k. Good job 4k). This is mostly seen in standard having 10 originals from 2023 not yet ranked. A big part of the reason for this relates to burnout. Expecting every mapper who receives an original to

1. Map the original and balance it for tournament needs
2. Organize a spread
3. Push it for ranked

Is unrealistic considering around 71% of our originals (tbs excluded) are 2:00 - 3:00 minutes long. This becomes even more difficult for standard when considering their minimum requirement starts AT 3:30.

I can see why this proposal may turn some people away as this would mean osu! originals could become less accessible to the player base by having fewer lower difficulties. However, I believe being idealistic is causing us to not take the best care of the originals that we already have. That should be the first priority.

I fully support this direction

+1

i am definitely supporting this. mappers can still choose to do more difficulties to be accessible for a wider playerbase, but this as a minimum is good.

discussed internally before and I fully agree with this.

+1

I like the idea, but at the same time i feel like having proper low diff spread is sill better than having "spread of 3 difficulties". Think main population is playing at low level anyway and for original content i'd expect atleast entry level difficulty

So imo exclude that second part from requirements, so spreads like HI and then 8 star extra are ok but 3 extras 8,7,6 are not?

Its still is better for the game with that second part, so im not against

not against that at all

I'd like to also clean up general spread requirements and how they're laid out on the wiki because as it is reading and understanding them is a royal PITA and adding a "5th category" with this will also make it more complicated.


I think rather than # of difficulties being a thing, spreads should still start at the lowest level but have more generosity given to their spreads, like 3* hard 4* insane 7* extra being ok for these maps. That reaches a much better range of audience than a spread with 5*, 6*, 7* star extras in a row.

+1

+1

Fully support -- I also hope such relaxed requirements can be generalized further to a broader range of selections in FA.

I agree with Mirash's idea, the lower difficulties tend to get played more than filler extras and also take up less time to map

I agree with Mirash as well. Will change to his suggestion.

I don't understand why the rules should be changed specifically for these tracks just because they're osu! originals. If people actually wanted to rank maps for these songs they would, just like with literally any other song. I don't think letting people do less than the bare minimum just to have them in the ranked section does these tracks justice if you really consider them special.

It would also make the spread rules even more convoluted than they already are, especially with every game mode having different rulesets (so why is this even being suggested for all modes?).

already said this in internal, but I don't think the originals not being ranked is inherently an issue since not every map has to be ranked (otherwise we would already have automated map ranking upon submission or smth) especially in cases when the mapper is unmotivated/doesn't have time/doesn't want to do anything with the map after the main diff is finished

if the goal of this proposal is to make sure osu!originals get ranked there are other ways of helping with pushing them such as finding the required diffs/bns/hitsounds/etc. for the mapper without the need of changing spread requirements for the originals specifically which also doesn't feel fair towards other songs

Serizawa Haruki - It's a little more complicated than that. Multiple modes are struggling on the subject matter of having their originals ranked (except for 4k currently). Having these originals be ranked is important as it helps to generate a positive yield for the song in question. If an artist see's that their song isn't popular, that can impact us negatively in the long run. Brought up this example internally, with the osu original "Pixel Planet" the catch set instantly yielded more popularity than the standard set upon being ranked despite the standard set also yielding a full spread while ALSO being completed before the catch spread.

beatmapsets/2212386#fruits/4686910
beatmapsets/2095123#fruits/4392960

NeKroMan4ik - See the example above. I also think that this issue isn't single solution. Having this pass would not solve everything but would be a good step forward in helping to increase the publicity of our osu! originals. Having better organization as you mentioned would help, but so would this and I don't see a reason to force this issue to have only "1" solution.

Though I am not against it I would agree with mirash and nao that having that lower diff spread there or at least present to be a very helpful thing to have since world cups tend to get more NEWER people into the game and its modes.

I can also see it driving more people to map the originals as well. However, I think that for the standard rc and maybe even other gamemodes to just induce a little less strict requirements. Only issue being that spread rules should apply cause standard gets stuff that is 6*+ and I don't understand if that would equate for the maps that 7-8* would still need to fill spread down to a hard or even a normal (I don't know much about other gamemode specifics but like some of those f/gf maps are like 7+ stars and would seem like a pain to chart down to their requirements at times.

Stats-wise I do like the idea of the shorter tbs (at least the ones that don't hit that 5+ minute threshold) having the leeway to be ranked as a solo diff. But I also feel like that should extend even more into the community-based stuff as well cause I wouldn't want happened to king atlantis happen for tbs that end up on the shorter end drain/playtime-wise.

However, maybe I'm just talking with my head in my butt as well but I think this could expand just beyond world cup specific custom songs as well, even though its not "officially" supported on the osu!team/staff side.

(poor wording on my end but I still support the concept of this. also just correct me if I'm fully wrong on something. I'm having trouble keeping up with the constant change of pace on some of the more recent rulings)

wwwww wrote:

Serizawa Haruki - It's a little more complicated than that. Multiple modes are struggling on the subject matter of having their originals ranked (except for 4k currently). Having these originals be ranked is important as it helps to generate a positive yield for the song in question. If an artist see's that their song isn't popular, that can impact us negatively in the long run. Brought up this example internally, with the osu original "Pixel Planet" the catch set instantly yielded more popularity than the standard set upon being ranked despite the standard set also yielding a full spread while ALSO being completed before the catch spread.

beatmapsets/2212386#fruits/4686910
beatmapsets/2095123#fruits/4392960

Who is "us" here?
If an artist's song isn't popular, that's just how it is. I don't think forcing songs into the ranked section that people aren't super interested in is necessary or helpful. Song content in this game has always been based on what people like. There are a lot of featured artists who have little to no ranked maps of their songs, and while it might be sad from their point of view, I don't think it's a problem for the game, and definitely not something the mapping community should have to make up for. Even with this change, some songs will never get a ranked map and that's okay.
I don't get what your example is supposed to demonstrate, that a ranked map is more popular than an unranked one? That's not surprising in the slightest. Why do osu! originals have to get popular at all costs?

there's nothing here that makes me think it should be specific to originals, a song being produced with the intent of usage in osu doesn't make it any more fitting of ranked. at least how I see it the underlying issue is that mappers are required to make more diffs when they already have a good & complete map to provide to ranked

my posts on this forum are turning into copypasta bc it feels like every few months there's a new thread pushing things ever so slightly closer to no spread requirements and I'm just waiting for that day to come

+1

i agree with Mirash and Nekro on this. Instead, I think creating a subdivision among the team for the sole purpose of pushing these originals and get them ranked is more sounding to me.

since its part of official osu! i feel like its more relavant to have a team dedicated to take care of these maps to fulfil its rank status.

I want to add more to this point, lower difficulty should remain intact while relaxing filling a gap between 5-8* (ro32 maps already clocks in at 7* and it goes higher as the round progresses).

The hard part of ranking a standard original isn't necessarily about completing lower difficulties, most of the time are spent on coordinating with mappers that map an extra diff

I'm okay with a proposal for relaxed requirements as long as they make sense to everyone else. (which is to say i'm not against what is being discussed here, but i don't have enough knowledge to agree/disagree with specific numbers or cutoffs).

This is kinda small changes, but is it possible to change the cut off to "Between 2:00 - 2:45" and "- Between 2:45 - 3:30" If this proposal shall be implemented?

The problem is that mania RC cut off right now is on that duration, which means that if this proposal shall be implemented, mania will have harsher and stricter requirement if we map originals, which contradict the purpose of this proposal in the first place.

I'm personally in support of anything that would make these sets have an easier time to be ranked. That said, I do believe that spreads aren't really the main thing holding these back. It may come rich coming from the mode whose requirements best align with the proposed ones, but from my experience this really isn't going to change much if the way we organize and orchestrate the ranking of this maps doesn't change as well.

If that means making a subgroup within the BN group dedicated to ranking these sets, with the expectation that they should be done in a timely manner while being organized by both the NAT and the tournament's hosts, then so be it. Mania has had a way easier time thanks to its commitment from both groups to manage and push these sets.

Definitely think there should be normal and hard diffs for these maps at a minimum since any new blood joining the game will not be able to play an extra diff.

-White wrote:

Definitely think there should be normal and hard diffs for these maps at a minimum since any new blood joining the game will not be able to play an extra diff.

I find this argument to be rather flawed, since 1) osu! has been out for years, and there are numerous maps of all difficulty ratings already that new players can play; and 2) mappers who want to map lower difficulties will still make lower difficulties (see P A N's full spreads of marathon-length Release Hallucination songs, including Vanitas, for example).

Overall, I think it'd be better to not make spread requirements more convoluted, and to instead make them more lenient, considering many songs are 3:00-3:30 in length. It can be somewhat demotivating to choose to map, say, a song that is double the length of the average ~1:30 TV size map, while still needing to fulfill the same exact spread requirements. In my opinion, it makes little sense how the ranking criteria don't consider such drastic differences in drain time. Anyway, this is just my perspective as someone who is trying out mapping and as a player who cannot play anything but said easier maps.

ReineMurasame wrote:

-White wrote:

Definitely think there should be normal and hard diffs for these maps at a minimum since any new blood joining the game will not be able to play an extra diff.

I find this argument to be rather flawed, since 1) osu! has been out for years, and there are numerous maps of all difficulty ratings already that new players can play; and 2) mappers who want to map lower difficulties will still make lower difficulties (see P A N's full spreads of marathon-length Release Hallucination songs, including Vanitas, for example).

Overall, I think it'd be better to not make spread requirements more convoluted, and to instead make them more lenient, considering many songs are 3:00-3:30 in length. It can be somewhat demotivating to choose to map, say, a song that is double the length of the average ~1:30 TV size map, while still needing to fulfill the same exact spread requirements. In my opinion, it makes little sense how the ranking criteria don't consider such drastic differences in drain time. Anyway, this is just my perspective as someone who is trying out mapping and as a player who cannot play anything but said easier maps.

Context matters here. You forget that this is for osu! originals that are being used for tournaments and are more likely than any other individual map/song to directly bring in new players who want to play it. This isn't some random anime map that nobody outside of the community is seeing, this is official content being promoted and advertised on outside platforms that can very realistically directly bring in new players.

If you want to relax for osu! originals at least extend to FA songs overall.

@Net0: While I do agree with that idea, but I do think more context is required to know in what direction to go with that (I lack the evidence to know what some of the better options are).

@Maxus I will apply your suggestion o7

i think majority of OWC maps being ranked without spread would give more motivation to mappers to map for tournaments, and also be healthy for players in general (so many 7-8stars sit in graveyard jail because people don't want to make spreads for 8 star deathmetal songs)

also +1 on the 3:30 mention, i think it's kinda crazy that OWC RO32 + SF TB need spread because they're 4:55~ in length

i believe if osu! originals were to have relaxed spread, then FA should be considered too.

statistically all of the diffs played on std mode beatmaps have always been the hard, insanes and extras as shown here: community/forums/topics/1893597. while not rigorous, this gives a general idea that we should prioritize a way to keep the hard, insane and low extras conveniently available to everyone. however, "relaxed spread" is very vague and a huge jump in difficulties i.e. (3*->4*->8*) will look pretty fucked up regardless if the rule is passed or not.

considering the current mapping scene where BNs are reaching out/approaching mappers more often than before, honestly i'd agree more with nekro's idea to inventivize the BN and/or the mappers, perhaps double MPG points for anyone involved, or even giving a leniency on activity for the BNs i.e. osu! originals give 2x activity. there is clearly an abundance of mappers and BNs, incentivizing them directly would work better than making spread more lenient for one type of song, which WILL unlock a new slippery slope moving forward as seen in the discussions.

lowkey im down for this just cuz i think spread rules in general should be way more lenient but at the same time it seems counter intuitive to make the big front page osu! original songs be the one with this spread exception

to me it would make way more sense for original songs (as well as fa songs) to have stricter spread rules to appeal to as wide of an audience as possible skill-wise, while other non original non fa songs have relaxed rules as they shouldnt be the main appeal for future players anyways

if the goal is to make these originals easier to rank then why not just give meaningful reward for bns/mappers who nominate or gd for these sets: add badges for those consistently involved, give activity breaks for nominating bns, give the mappers supporter or something idk lol

ideal world for me is making spread rules as loose as possible everywhere but if we're going to start adding exceptions instead it seems perplexing to me that this is the first place considered for it

-White wrote:

ReineMurasame wrote:

-White wrote:

Definitely think there should be normal and hard diffs for these maps at a minimum since any new blood joining the game will not be able to play an extra diff.

I find this argument to be rather flawed, since 1) osu! has been out for years, and there are numerous maps of all difficulty ratings already that new players can play; and 2) mappers who want to map lower difficulties will still make lower difficulties (see P A N's full spreads of marathon-length Release Hallucination songs, including Vanitas, for example).

Overall, I think it'd be better to not make spread requirements more convoluted, and to instead make them more lenient, considering many songs are 3:00-3:30 in length. It can be somewhat demotivating to choose to map, say, a song that is double the length of the average ~1:30 TV size map, while still needing to fulfill the same exact spread requirements. In my opinion, it makes little sense how the ranking criteria don't consider such drastic differences in drain time. Anyway, this is just my perspective as someone who is trying out mapping and as a player who cannot play anything but said easier maps.

Context matters here. You forget that this is for osu! originals that are being used for tournaments and are more likely than any other individual map/song to directly bring in new players who want to play it. This isn't some random anime map that nobody outside of the community is seeing, this is official content being promoted and advertised on outside platforms that can very realistically directly bring in new players.

Exactly. And I am considering even longer osu! originals like Vanitas. Still, In my opinion, there are better ways of going about this than adding spread requirement exceptions for a very small subset of songs from a subset of artists. As such, I agree with Net0 here, in that if this approach were to be taken, it would make more sense to relax spread requirements to all FA songs at least, rather than for just a select few. While having osu! originals mapped more would be awesome, it wouldn't hurt to provide more incentive to map other FA songs as well.

Basensorex wrote:

lowkey im down for this just cuz i think spread rules in general should be way more lenient but at the same time it seems counter intuitive to make the big front page osu! original songs be the one with this spread exception

to me it would make way more sense for original songs (as well as fa songs) to have stricter spread rules to appeal to as wide of an audience as possible skill-wise, while other non original non fa songs have relaxed rules as they shouldnt be the main appeal for future players anyways

if the goal is to make these originals easier to rank then why not just give meaningful reward for bns/mappers who nominate or gd for these sets: add badges for those consistently involved, give activity breaks for nominating bns, give the mappers supporter or something idk lol

ideal world for me is making spread rules as loose as possible everywhere but if we're going to start adding exceptions instead it seems perplexing to me that this is the first place considered for it

I absolutely agree with Basen here that this is more of a general spread requirement issue, and he does bring an interesting point about possibly wanting extra scrutiny for ranking original songs (and wanting to keep lower difficulties in spreads if new players are the target audience). To add, I also agree rewards for mapping/nominating originals could incentivize more people to map/nominate said songs. Perhaps mappers can even have their ranked full spreads of original songs featured in the base game for new players to enjoy, so long as there is some way to guarantee that they reach the best quality standard. Or maybe you can get a special flair, medal, or some other vanity cosmetic as a reward. Again, these are just additional ideas, but I think that this is more of a general issue with the ranking criteria for spreads, rather than some exception that should be added for only a small subset of an existing subset of songs.

TLDR;
Either loosen spread requirements for FA songs or all songs as a whole, or provide a different incentive if you really want more ranked versions of osu! original songs.

Or this issue could be circumvented by getting people who map customs to agree explicitly to making a spread and do their reasonable best to rank it. Sadly making it more attractive for BNs to nominate an osu! original isn't really feasible though (or at least I don't see what incentive could be made).

I think that spread requirements should be generally relaxed (speaking of osu!standard), not just for osu!originals or FA songs, as some people suggested. Really like the idea Basen brought up, requirements should be more lenient overall while keeping it stricter for official content, such as originals and FA songs. To reward people who rank full spreads of those songs, badges, user titles(?) and other things seems like a good idea, maybe some unique ways to promote those maps would be awesome as well (things like daily challenge is good example and I believe ways to promote official content should be expanded even further).

I'm not really a mapper but I'd appreciate more world cup originals and just FA stuff in general getting ranked more easily, would like to see this get implemented

I like this idea for the incentive, but I'm concerned about the potential precedence it can set for future mapsets and/or proposals.

I prefer the ranking criteria as it currently is, however, while OWC could maybe not be up for ranking, they should at least be considered in a loved or at least another special category, if it is good enough to be approved in the OWC it most likely is good enough for being loved or having rankings, and if the map creator pushes for the ranking it's their own decision.

feel like if anything osu originals should have more strict spread requirements considering they are made for our game and we want to push them to the maximum amount of players

it is honestly not difficult to wrangle gders for songs that generally have very hyped reveals and a lot of momentum behind them. great world cup or tournament maps are ranked quickly, the initiative needs to be taken by the mapper or you need to ask more reliable set hosts

I strongly support anything that will make osu! originals reach the ranked section faster, and relaxing their spread rules seems like a good proposal.
It's extremely sad that 10 originals from std owc2023 still aren't ranked more than a year later, and I wanna ask to anyone who doesn't agree with spread rules relaxation: how should we fix that issue, then?
It would be ideal (in my opinion) if osu! originals were already ranked by the time they were being played in the tournament, and not years later as it is now.