NotCookie wrote:

It's farmable in the sense that you can just keep slowly pushing up your lowest weighted scores until they meet your highest scoring performances, while not improving your top performances.

imo if you're deliberately trying to get scores that are significantly easier than your top performances (lets give an arbitrary figure of 5), you're farming.

that depends on the maps in questions star rating. if your lowest weighted performances are all low acc/combos on quite difficult maps, then that's the only way.. and in that case it's not really farming so much as improving

but typically, lower weighted scores are often good performances on maps that are much easier than your top performances which means it wont really get much higher unless your top performances are C's and B's or something.

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

that depends on the maps in questions star rating. if your lowest weighted performances are all low acc/combos on quite difficult maps, then that's the only way.. and in that case it's not really farming so much as improving

That's an anecdotal exception, and even then it's mostly only relevant to people who have next to no pp anyway.

Let me reiterate. If you're deliberately trying to achieve scores that are below your proven potential, then you are farming. You're playing it for pp, not to improve.

if you can still gain rank by doing those maps, your skill hasn't been completely translated into rank yet.

lol

/facepalm

NotCookie wrote:

lol

/facepalm

"proven potential"

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

"proven potential"

Your top performance is your proven potential. If you're deliberately playing songs that are (significantly) below that, you are not aiming to improve your skill. You are only looking to improve your rank.

I'm not going to keep explaining this to you, it's really basic logic. What do you do when you want to improve? You play songs that challenge you. What do you do when you just want pp? You find a song that you can FC with minimal retries.

NotCookie, You seem to forget the other factor when it comes to skill: consistency.

If I were able to replace all my score with scores that are as hard as my top performance, I'd be a MUCH better player. I'd improve by doing that. My rank would rise with my skil. That's not farming.
First of all, maps are hard for different reasons. Some might be hard because of complex jumps, others because of streams, others because of reading etc. If you can do them all you're better than when you can do only one.
Some high performance scores are just lucky plays where one just didn't happen to miss on that one giant square, that doesn't mean one's able to do it in the next play too. However if you prove you can do that by getting other scores that are just as hard, you prove that your skill is higher than what is needed for a "lucky play", so it just makes sense for the rank to show that improvement.

What I said isn't contradictory to what you're saying, Zare. You're tunneling on the idea of pp rating being equal to difficulty, yet I am not implying that. All I am saying is that if you are deliberately playing songs that aren't challenging for you, but could potentially give pp, then you are farming. If you find it challenging, even if it is below your top performance by perhaps a perhaps large margin, it is not farming.

Although, I am implying that your top performance in most cases will represent the level that you are capable of playing at, and that if your ultimate goal is 'to improve', then you will be playing songs that are of approximate difficulty to the one in your top performance.

pp gains and skill improvement are not mutually inclusive. It is possible to gain pp without improving (much), and it is possible to improve your skill without gaining pp.

let me put it another way, if songs that aren't challenging to you are giving you pp, your rank isn't accurately representing your skill level yet. the way ppv2 weights score supports this.
i wouldnt consider it farming in that point, more of just naturally ranking up.
it is also a matter of consistency, your best play is not how 'good' you are necessarily

Havikz wrote:

I've been stuck around the 5.5k range for a while, most my top scores are in the accuracy range that I don't want to bother improving (like 99.80% or 99.70% so there's really no point murdering myself trying to get 100%). Maps either give zero PP for a high acc FC or they completely kick my arse like jippusu - Heisei Kataku Rhythm. Anybody know of some good maps around my range that I can grind out a good score and squeeze some PP out? Am I reaching the point where I need to learn how to use mods?

the answer is no, mods are just there to make the maps more difficult. And there is plenty of it.
You can just use the search engine and type out stuffs like AR=9, songs that kick your arse are helpful because they force you to improve. Everytime I go on multiplayer, people always play songs that pushes me to the max that I can FC songs that I usually wouldn't. (only happens when I am geared)

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

let me put it another way, if songs that aren't challenging to you are giving you pp, your rank isn't accurately representing your skill level yet. the way ppv2 weights score supports this.
i wouldnt consider it farming in that point, more of just naturally ranking up.
it is also a matter of consistency, your best play is not how 'good' you are necessarily

It is farming. If you're going out of your way to play easy songs just for pp, you are farming. It is not natural.

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing, please stop. You quite literally aren't even reading what I've typed, and are just ranting on with nonsense points going "no you cant farm ppv2!!!"

my point is if you can get rank that way it's because the person hasnt, as they say "proven their skill"

NotCookie, if I understand you correctly and by your logic, are you suggesting we remove all the lower weighted scores of the Top Performances if you only consider something like the top 5 to represent your personal skills? This would then remove the ability to farm and your personal skill would be totally dependent on your top 5.

Since that is not the case and ALL of our scores are taken into consideration in calculating your total PP and are weighted accordingly, I think the creators of this system intended so that playing "easier songs" to improve the lower weighted scores of your Top Performance would not count as farming and that it is in fact just you trying to improve your skills.

Because of how this new system works by weighting each score (.95^n), I believe even playing a super easy song to improve your 25th highest score of your Top Performances would count as you just trying to improve yourself and is not farming since that score would be weighted .95^25.

But if we go by your logic, then the next logical step would be to completely disregard all the lower weighted scores to remove "farming" which is something I think no one would agree with since having many songs to sum up to your total PP prevents "flukes" and is a much more sound way of ranking players.

Edit: Also the way you define farming implies everyone is farming i.e. you are trying to beat your highest Top Performance by playing a song that is more difficult than your highest Top Performance but mess up in such a way that it still beats your 25th Top Performance and pushes it down increasing your total PP. Boom. Farming.

Edit2: I thought about it a little more. It seems you define someone who is farming by having scores of something like (for the sake of simplicity and ranking from highest to lowest): 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8,... and someone who is not farming to have scores of something like 8, 7, 7, 5, 4, 1,..... Then aren't you punishing consistent players by calling what they are doing farming? I believe a player that has shown consistency deserves to be ranked higher than one that has shown to be less consistent.

HamsterCurry wrote:

But if we go by your logic, then the next logical step would be to completely disregard all the lower weighted scores to remove "farming" which is something I think no one would agree with.

That is what I believe would be best, yes. Smaller sample of performances so that it encourages players to go for challenging scores, not 'free' pp. Players who are at the highest level wouldn't really be negatively affected by this, because they already try to get a new best score all the time.

However, I do acknowledge that this wouldn't work for all players/ranks, so I agree it's not something that could be implemented.

EDIT: I just read your edit. No, my entire argument has been "farming ppv2 is possible", because certain people seemed pretty adamant about saying the contrary. It's the act of doing what you've shown in your example, however it also has to have a mentality behind it. The mentality of "I'll try this song a few times to see if I can FC, otherwise I'm going to go find another song", and repeat this process until they find it is too hard to get pp. They aren't looking for a challenge, they're looking for an easy FC, thus easy pp.

While I think that ppv2 could be better, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong about the ability to farm. All I've been trying to say, is that "farming ppv2 is possible".

I edited my post again incase you missed it.

However, I do acknowledge that this wouldn't work for all players/ranks, so I agree it's not something that could be implemented.

Yes because of the sheer number of people who play this game, the more scores that are taken into consideration in determining the total PP, the more accurate the ranking system is.

At least at my terrible rank, I could farm my maps to get pp if I really wanted to. The reality of the matter is that at least for most people who don't try to SS/ FC everything as soon as they play it, there will be songs in which you are technically capable of FCing, but haven't put the time into grinding the map until you get a better score. I have a LOT of maps that are more difficult than the maps in my top performances that aren't in my top performance because I haven't played them enough to get rid of pesky misses.

I think it would help one become more consistent by grinding out a map until it is perfect and that will allow them to expand to more difficult maps. I advocate caution when grinding/farming old maps. If you fill up your well of potential pp, and don't try to conquer harder maps before that happens, you will likely hit a wall in which you can't get any more pp until you tackle songs that are more difficult than what you've been playing (your comfort zone).

It's better to challenge your skill level slightly. Find maps in which you are just barely unable to complete. Grind them out until you can beat them regardless of how much pp they are worth. (Remember that your top performance may not be the hardest map you have the potential to complete). This is how you improve.

I would also try to avoid maps that are easier that give more pp. You aren't really getting anymore pp in the long run. Tom will eventually tweak the system so that the maps will be worth less pp and then you will end up losing ranks because of it.

I just want to reiterate that seeing what people just above your rank have got in their performance list is really helpful. They probably didn't get to their rank in the same way that you did and so their top performances will likely contain songs that you don't have in your performance list that are worth similar pp amounts to maps in your list. Unless you have completely filled up your well, they will likely still give you something.

TheVileOne wrote:

It's better to challenge your skill level slightly. Find maps in which you are just barely unable to complete. Grind them out until you can beat them regardless of how much pp they are worth. (Remember that your top performance may not be the hardest map you have the potential to complete). This is how you improve.

this is exactly what ive been doing for my past 2000 or so plays [my first 5000 dont even feel like they counted since i was basically just nfing big black and stuff i couldnt do]

tbh the only time i ever gain pp is when i play multiplayer haha. that's the only time im not forcing myself to struggle with DT or something.

altho thanks to multi, i discovered handlebars is worth some damn nice PP, and it was nice to get that anime opening off my top rank..
i wouldnt call multiplayer farming ever, even if the map is a little below my skill level, because, frankly, there's no retries.

Best beatmap for getting good pp
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/21581

iWhorse wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/205267?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/46186
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/103221?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/203993?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/155404?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/127712
DT all of above
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/53857



pretty much all of ztrot's maps+dt give more PP than they're worth as well http://osu.ppy.sh/s/143823 http://osu.ppy.sh/s/72324

if none of those work, go do what bauxe said

One or two of those beatmaps are too fast for me, but they're definitely giving me chunks of PP. I'm working on the MLP one right now, gave me 20PP or more just for FCing at 95%. If I get 98% I'm sure I'll break 5k.

Yeah thanks to this thread I'm now way more over-ranked than I already was. >_>

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/362949?m=0 here's an easy 200pp
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/216690?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/166485?m=0

itt: people discuss "farming" 90 pp yet again

please just play the game and dont use big words like "star rating" when you can get points by literally playing ANY map
literally any map

its a waste of your time to even think about specifics like 3 pages of this thread when you have fucking 90 pp top

get better accuracy and play more maps and you will improve, as will your points

edit: dear god please Bassist Vinyl, please, please stop giving advice your top scores are Cs on random shit please stop talking like you know what you are talking about, its literally painful to read

im not even flaming its just that you are everywhere trying to give advanced advice when you have no idea what you are talking about

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

let me put it another way, if songs that aren't challenging to you are giving you pp, your rank isn't accurately representing your skill level yet. the way ppv2 weights score supports this.
i wouldnt consider it farming in that point, more of just naturally ranking up.
it is also a matter of consistency, your best play is not how 'good' you are necessarily

It would be true that the system is unfarmable if every song was accurate with its pp output relative to its difficulty. While the current system is pretty accurate, there are definitely some songs that are easier than others yet give more pp. What does this mean? If you play the correct maps you can get pp that you don't really deserve and easily become overranked. There are some songs that I don't find challenging that give me a lot of pp (like Diamond) yet it doesn't mean I'm not overranked.

Horo wrote:

please just play the game and dont use big words like "star rating" when you can get points by literally playing ANY map
literally any map

Well of course you get pp from playing ANY map, but after a while maps won't contribute towards your total pp at all regardless of how well you play them, they will just be weighted to 0%.

Well there are lots of maps suitable for grinding out pp
such as Recommended Spell (Spell) or The Pretender (Pretender)
If you're not advanced enough to play those maps, you can just go play any random normal with DT
tons of pp come in

edit: nevermind, what i said was out of line. i can't see horo's posts anymore [foe system op] so there's no need for this post
sorry if anyone saw this before it was edited
i shouldnt let immature people get to me

horo does have a point, you really shouldn't think about pp so early, it's completely pointless.

Havikz wrote:

iWhorse wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/205267?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/46186
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/103221?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/203993?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/155404?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/127712
DT all of above
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/53857



pretty much all of ztrot's maps+dt give more PP than they're worth as well http://osu.ppy.sh/s/143823 http://osu.ppy.sh/s/72324

if none of those work, go do what bauxe said

One or two of those beatmaps are too fast for me, but they're definitely giving me chunks of PP. I'm working on the MLP one right now, gave me 20PP or more just for FCing at 95%. If I get 98% I'm sure I'll break 5k.

sweet, nice to hear

i got more if you need any, just didn't feel like copying them all in here at once lol

-

Rip. Just rip

SammySama wrote:

I've been stuck around the 5.5k range for a while, most my top scores are in the accuracy range that I don't want to bother improving (like 99.80% or 99.70% so there's really no point murdering myself trying to get 100%). Maps either give zero PP for a high acc FC or they completely kick my arse like jippusu - Heisei Kataku Rhythm. Anybody know of some good maps around my range that I can grind out a good score and squeeze some PP out? Am I reaching the point where I need to learn how to use mods?

OMG YOU LIKE KILL LA KILL FINALLY

The thread is 2 years old >__>

play more

vsprite wrote:

play more

nice advice, but still offtopic

playing more is never offtopic


anyways who has some good pp grinding maps

anyways who has some good pp grinding maps

Grinding PP Games

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/421532
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/748656
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/260489
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/438328
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/437671
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/154165
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/543496&m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/695636

Grind a lot and you will get your pepe
Beatmaps sponsored by "I hate TV-Size so i grind gimmick & marathons"

Alright, here are some maps I fcd on like the first or second try. They are between 150 and 200 pp:

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/359869?m=0 201 pp 99.31% DT
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/490154?m=0 187pp 99.83% DT
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/637549?m=0 189pp 100% HDDT
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/135200?m=0 158pp 98.74% DT
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/577427?m=0 158pp 98.74% DT


I have alot more, just ask if you want more

At least alternatives exist, so there's plenty of opportunities in that relentless quest for PP.

Starrodkirby86 wrote:

At least alternatives exist, so there's plenty of opportunities in that relentless quest for PP.

Give this guy 727 pp
And THIS NECROPOST XDD JESUS

Horo wrote:

itt: people discuss "farming" 90 pp yet again

please just play the game and dont use big words like "star rating" when you can get points by literally playing ANY map
literally any map

its a waste of your time to even think about specifics like 3 pages of this thread when you have fucking 90 pp top

get better accuracy and play more maps and you will improve, as will your points

edit: dear god please Bassist Vinyl, please, please stop giving advice your top scores are Cs on random shit please stop talking like you know what you are talking about, its literally painful to read

im not even flaming its just that you are everywhere trying to give advanced advice when you have no idea what you are talking about

0


people just wanna get lots of points thats the premise of most games