Welcome(?) to the Keyboard thread for osu mania. aka:

1. what keyboards do give up easily
2. what keyboards makes it easy for the fingers to lose their position
3. what keyboards do hurt your fingers
4. why mechanical over the "cheap" keyboards
5. what keyboard would you consider a long time partner and cheap

I'm using Genius kb-g235 and my only complain here is that I tend to hit the surrounding keys due to them being (too) small and thus make me lose that combo. Its pros is that it withstood my onslaught and I don't think I'm the soft touch user type.

I'd like to replace this with a, err, wider keys

all standard keyboard variations have the same surface area on the keys unless you start looking mini keyboards for tablets or special ergonomic keyboards.

If you want wider, get a controller :p

http://www.twitch.tv/xdrace/c/4017117

Also you could check out this thread t/159959

I-i-i don't think that's available here locally.

I'm using corsair vengeance red switches.
It's does a nice job in pretty much every area (stamina, >200 bpm, accuracy)
but the only complaint I have is the noise level.
Good thing is that even that can be fixed with an o-ring mod but I haven't got a chance to do that yet.
(But then again, all mech keyboards are loud so...)

Neither here, ordered it online at djdao and customized it with tape and cardboard hehe

Drace wrote:

Neither here, ordered it online at djdao and customized it with tape and cardboard hehe

Wait a second, that doesn't look like a DJDAO controller at all...
Unless it's the real edition and you taped over buttons #1, #3, and #5 on each side?

2 FPS, I have a blast on em when I play DP, but it felt like a waste to not use them for 1P also. Being originally a kb player, I wanted to play with same layout, which was possible but the keys were too far apart. So I whipped up something real quick for shits and giggles and the results were completely unexpected. The thing works like charm as weird as that may sound....



I just switch between the 2 faceplates when i switch between DP and 1P haha. But I'm planning to make something more... "professional" or "clean" when i get to my parents house for the summer break. Probably weld something out of metal or cutout something in wood... we'll see.

You must have a lot of money to own two $300 controllers and then cover them in tape.

Well i get more use out of them now, which in the end gives me more bang for my buck ;w; I'll make something better looking eventually xD

My main concerns resolves around functionality and efficiency haha

Interesting concept, though. Have you ever considered getting some wood and acrylic and making a custom board and using one of the dao PCB? Might save a bit of desk room, and you won't have to constantly chop and change the face plates.

I did and I would of if it weren't for the fact that I play DP now nearly as much as 1P. So the space would end up being used anyways. Also just unscrewing the faceplate and popping in the old one when i switch games is no hassle, literally takes like 2-3 minutes.

On I side note, I also made and SDVX face plate to play on k-shoot mania. The layout consists of 4 white keys for 4k, 2 sideways black keys bellow for the palm holds and the 2 turntables to replace the knobs ;o

It's really become a universal controller haha

I recently got a Max Nighthawk x7, and its a very solid keyboard.

The interesting thing is all of the Max keyboards have NKRO over USB, which is something that isn't normally possible, but it works flawlessly.

keep in mind that usb nkro suffers from a good 6ms-12ms input lag

Drace wrote:

keep in mind that usb nkro suffers from a good 6ms-12ms input lag

This explains why I can't beat ss ranks I set out months ago on membrane keys with my far superior mechanical keyboard.

I use a CM Storm Quickfire TK with MX Red switches which seem to be the most popular choice here.

Also Drace it looks like your keyboard is the wrong way round in one of the pictures surely numpad should be on the right, ARGHHHH!

Haha the first image is from my stream where I flip the handshot horizontally to correctly match every finger with every lane :p

Also when switching from membrane to mech: going from bottom-out activation to mid-way activation really messes with your acc until you get used to it. I did the switch myself a while back and I still play better on my laptop 6 months later zz

Since when you got a controller drace wtf is happening to this world

like 2 weeks ago kk

great things are happening to this world

edit: im stupid

Current using Razer Deathstalker.

I like it since it's chiclet, much like my laptop which I got used to, and easy to press. My only drawback is that it gets harder to press after sometime so I have to change keybounds occasionally.

If i was given the chance to change my keyboard, it'd be the ones they have at the school library. They're so good for my touch. Or Cherry MX Reds/Razer Blackwidow Stealth.

Drace how did you get that IIDX controller I want one too TT.
Btw is it better than mech keyboard ? Any special thing to use it like special usb cable ?

EDIT : found this : http://www.twitch.tv/xdrace/c/4017117
Holy **** this is awesome !

Drace wrote:

like 2 weeks ago kk

great things are happening to this world

the world has gone mad then.

edit: all this for rank 243? damn so expensive.

Waisse wrote:

Drace how did you get that IIDX controller I want one too TT.
Btw is it better than mech keyboard ? Any special thing to use it like special usb cable ?

EDIT : found this : http://www.twitch.tv/xdrace/c/4017117
Holy **** this is awesome !

Glad you enjoyed it, I got them from here http://gamo2.com/en/

It's USB but with much less keys than a keyboard. So the bandwidth needed to achieve nkro easily falls within usb driver's max bandwidth unlike usb nkro on keyboards. Which is why it's nkro doesn't cause any more input lag then your everyday 6kro keyboard. Like a plug'n'play console controller if you may.

And it's pretty obvious that it's better than a mech. No matter what anyone would say, mechs are tools optimized for typing. Gamers just use them and treat them as the next big thing since there isn't anything universal that's purposely optimized for gaming. Like you have steering wheels for racing games, like you have flight sticks for flight sims, like you have arcade controllers for fighting games, you have this which is a tool optimized for gaming. Nice big buttons to avoid miss-presses, nice mechanical keys without the huge travel distance of most mechanical keyboards, great feedback; feels like heaven at your fingertips.


Totally recommend it.

Read on if you want a list of what I currently perform better on (note "what I perform", not stating what is best) from the stuff I've spent atleast 2 months+ playing on.

From best to worst:

My customized DJDAOS

yeee, already my best and I haven't been using them for that long. They don't activate on the bottom, but they don't activate in the middle either. It's somewhere between the bottom and the middle. But the travel distance is so small it doesn't bother bottom-out lovers like myself.

Steel series scissor switches

I currently perform about the same as my DJDAOS on these except they're obviously not as fun. I get more misses, but a better accuracy. I'm sure given enough time my acc will improve on the DJDAOS. Also note these are actually pretty rare. I seen a laptop not too long ago that boasted having steel series, but it was just a mock-up... wtf. They're mostly found on CLEVOs, aka Sagers and Eurocoms. They feel like topres with chiclet-level travel distance, you can tell they aren't just normal scissor switches. I got a 10k kro combination on them if i use shifts and numpad (don't worry, it was still natural, unlike some crazy unatural combinations some people are forced to play with), but it's officially listed as 6kro. The only downfall is I don't want to play on a laptop haha

Modded cherry MX reds to activate on bottom out

For a long time I tried unmodded but it just wasn't working. After preventing the keys from travelling any further than the activation, which in turn also halved the travel distance, I seen instant improvement. It activated the bottom which I personally really like, and had a travel distance somewhere between low profile membranes and chiclets.

Cherry MX Browns

I consider these better than unmodded reds since reds got no tactical feedback on the activation point. Browns are slightly stiffer than reds, but lighter than blacks and you can feel where the activation point is (without it "clicking" like blues either). I would call these the best switches (stock) for a mech keyboard used on vsrgs

Topres

These feel so unique, quite the fun experience nonetheless. But they suffer the same problem as the reds, midway activation point with no tactical feedback. But even despite this, I performed much better on these than the unmodded reds. Mind you, topres are the most expensive switches out there.

Scissor switches

Just your common everyday laptop keyboard. They're ok, but at time they feel unresponsive and extremely fragile. Too much playing on these will definitively result in the destruction of the laptop haha. Now the thing about scissor switches is there's various grades of quality that will fall between here and the steel series. Like the logitech PerfectStroke or the Razer Deathstalker. I have tried them, but not enough to say any more than they perform somewhere between here and the steel series. Also an unfortunate trend in high quality scissor switches is they tend to only have like 3 or 2 kro zzz

Membrane

They last longer than low-quality scissor switches. But they just play so bad on. They feel mushy, keycaps wear and get stuck, they don't bounce back quite fast enough for faster patterns like jack hammers. They work fine, but if you're planning to take vsrgs seriously, you should also plan on getting something better eventually. Mind you, I beleive it is possible with the right engineering to make keyboards of this type worthwhile. The only membranes I've even played seriously on is the Razer Lycosa, some weird Dell keyboard with a volume knob on it and a Pixo. So the only "expensive" membrane I've played on is a Razer, which begs to believe there's better out there I haven't tried. But yeah, the average membrane is cheap crap so yeah.

Cherry MX reds

Explained the problem with these in the brown's section. I don't really know much why I do so bad on them, they just didn't bode well with me...
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Cherry MX Blues

lel, lived with a bud for summer break and that's what he had, a blackwidow to be precise. With headphones on you don't hear the clicking, but even then the tactile feedback doesn't feel as good as browns. It doesn't help when they have their release point above the actuation point. Trying to get good accuracy on jacks and long notes with these is a nightmare. This keyboard was as deadly to my performance as it's name.

I haven't played much on whites and blacks, but I have tried them. Whites are just stiffer browns, and blacks are just stiffer reds. So they'd pretty much fall in the same positions as their softer counterparts for me. Cherry MX greens are just stiffer blues, the new razer greens and oranges are like blues, but the activation point is higher than midway. The release is still higher than activation, but the gap between the two is smaller. I guess that'd make them better than blues. But I'd say they took their innovations in the wrong direction since their still suffer the same downfalls.

I've never even touch the low profile switches (cherry ML or cherry ME), nor the alps switches. I want to though.

Best switch is buckling springs

kidlat020 wrote:

all this for rank 243? damn so expensive.

I'm not competitive, over 90% of my plays are offline and I mostly play other vsrgs. It's all about setting challenges for yourself and striving to achieve them :p

Entozer wrote:

TRUST. BELIEVE. SUCCEEDED

Strange, I use a Corsair Vengeance K70 with MX Red and I find it very consistent on o!m (my first Rhythm game ever).
Also Drace, I see you used two single controller and not a double one, do you have any advice on what controller to buy on http://gamo2.com/en/index.php and which options are relevant to choose (like matching my skin) ?

My skin :

Maybe this might help when you choose microswitches / push buttons.



And I believe Drace has the FP7 ones.

It's 2 FPSs

The reason I use 2 singles is instead of a double is

1. cheaper

2. more versatility

like i said earlier, i also use it for k-shoot mania with this setup



wouldn't be possible with double

Matching skins shouldn't be a worry, since you know, you don't look down at your controller while you play. :p

Drace wrote:

I'm not competitive, over 90% of my plays are offline and I mostly play other vsrgs. It's all about setting challenges for yourself and striving to achieve them :p

and you dare call yourself not competitive? What the hell am I doing wrong.

some recommended two keyboards when playing? may I ask why? and won't they keyboard lose its hold from the table?

It's a clever way to overcome the the kro of some keyboards. Say you have 2 6kro keyboards (meaning you can't press more that 6 keys at once), together they form 12kro. Playing with 1 hand each allows you to press 7keys simultaneously, something you couldn't do before.

I used to do that when i played on membrane, it's a big reason why I'm comfortable playing with both my hands far apart from each other (thus why my controllers are set up that way). I don't see how a keyboard would lose it's hold to the desk, there's anti-slip material under keyboards :/ I guess it would depend majorly on your setup, but it shouldn't be any different than playing with one.

I wouldn't say this is "recommended", more like a viable solution to overcome KRO limitations

@waisse

FPS are really good and seem like a nice standard for dao controllers. Getting a double one is really just paying alot of extra money for looks. Also the FPS seems compact and you can carry it around easier. It has a bit of a smaller turntable than the fp7 which can make a bit of a difference when playing really scratch heavy songs but it doesnt matter at all.

Well getting or thinking of getting a controller or even 2 is a bit much just for osu since the game is more towards the keyboard players but if you like it just for the different gameplay or want to get it into other stuff aswell i really recommend it since its plays different and fun. Just keep in mind you are paying a couple hundred and its not really necessary and a keyboard is just good enough for this game.

I use a CM Storm QuickFire Rapid with Cherry MX Brown keys and love it. Seems to work very well for my purposes.

@Drace
Could you explain how did you mod MX Reds to be better for bottom-outer's?
I'm using MX Blue Blackwidow now and I'm changing my keyboard within next 2 months, so I'm thinking if I should buy MX Brown's or Red's and after reading your opinion I think I'll go with reds if they aren't hard to mod like you did. It will work probably out for me like for you, since I'm bottom-outer myself
and I have exactly no idea how to mod keyboards in any way, let alone trying to do that

-Kamikaze- wrote:

@Drace
Could you explain how did you mod MX Reds to be better for bottom-outer's?

Just stack a bunch of O-rings under the keycap.

Fullereneshift wrote:

-Kamikaze- wrote:

@Drace
Could you explain how did you mod MX Reds to be better for bottom-outer's?

Just stack a bunch of O-rings under the keycap.

Oh, I was planning to get o-rings anyway to reduce keyboard's noise, thanks for the idea

Yeah pretty much

But I found that too felt a little too mushy so I instead got small nylon washers I picked up at my local hardware store and kept them in place with just one o-ring. Felt more solid this way.

Sooo.... I'm a little confused ... I will buy new keyboard... and between these type which is better ? [Cherry MX Red Switch or maybe black, because I like heavier thing XD]
I want a keyboard with full key xD because this will be my primary keyboard, ~

- CM Storm Quick Fire Pro
- SteelSeries 6GV2 [
- Ducky DK9008 Shine 3 /Ducky DK9087 ?
- CM Storm Trigger

or... Any recommedation will be appreciated xD ~

Thanks

Blacks and reds are the same just blacks offer more resistance. You'd save stamina on the lighter reds, but gain more control on the heavier blacks. But that doesn't change the fact you'll grow used to which ever one you use so in the end the differences aren't much. Though black and reds got no tactical feedback at all leaving you having to guess where the midway is, it's not exactly ideal for accuracy.

For manufacturers I'd recommend Ducky over all, anything from them. My second go-to would be Filco Magistouch. It's my personal preferences though, in reality, all leading mech brands use the same switches, the same materials, and similar build quality.

I own a dasKeyboard with blue switches and a CM storm with reds and PBT keycaps.

It's all personal preference, but I can say when you first start typing on blacks / blues it actually is kind of tiring.

I personally prefer playing on reds, but I end up switching between blues and reds a lot depending on whether I'm working cause blues are rage inducing in the office. My accuracy is terrible cause of this though I should probably stick to one keyboard.

If these were TKL they would be my dream keyboard though T__T
http://www.feenixcollection.com/autore.html

So ... Did mech keyboard is good for osu!mania? If you're growing up with rubberdome keyboards?

ArcherLove wrote:

So ... Did mech keyboard is good for osu!mania? If you're growing up with rubberdome keyboards?

i dunno :v but when i use mech keyboard .. my acc is worse than when i use rubberdome keyboard

Adjusting from bottom-out activation (like rubber domes) to midway activation (like mechs) will most likely take some getting used to. Some people get used to it the same day, others take up to multiple months. But nearly everyone I know who's done the switch are quite content with the end results.

Since you're coming from rubber domes, something with tactile feedback would most likely be best so you can "feel" where the activation point is.

Browns are slightly heavier than reds, only slightly; they're still lighter than blues. And you can feel the key activating unlike reds and blacks without it clicking like blues. Browns turn out to be pretty solid switches for vsrgs from a technical standpoint, definitely recommended.

ArcherLove wrote:

So ... Did mech keyboard is good for osu!mania? If you're growing up with rubberdome keyboards?

"Technically" they should be better once you get used to them, but a good keyboard doesn't make a good player.

Actually it probably doesn't have enough effect to justify the cost, but they are super cool to type/game on and I guarantee you won't go back... if you want to buy something nice for yourself

Inkling wrote:

ArcherLove wrote:

So ... Did mech keyboard is good for osu!mania? If you're growing up with rubberdome keyboards?

"Technically" they should be better once you get used to them, but a good keyboard doesn't make a good player.

Actually it probably doesn't have enough effect to justify the cost, but they are super cool to type/game on and I guarantee you won't go back... if you want to buy something nice for yourself

Actually Good player can't be good without Good keyboard .... ~ :3

"good keyboard" is relatively subjective.

I dunno, I never tried too many keyboards anyway. they live waaay longer than I myself wish them to be lol. not to mention I'm getting older myself, so the "appeal" in buying another keyboard for me is really slim.

but then again, fuck real world. 2D world and cyber world all the way!!

Oh, and mech keyboards are an instant T-D for me. I imagine I won't like their clicking sound in the long run.

Like I said many times already, only blues/greens click. The only only sound you get from the other ones is PCB(most the time) key-caps slamming onto steel, which o-rings and lube can reduce to membrane-level.

Actually there's certain mods available to make the clicking blues/greens silent, but I'd say just get something else if you don't want clicking haha.

would a PS/2 keyboard perform better (input lag) than USB keyboard?

Yep, with nkro keyboards you end up with virtually no input lag through ps/2 since the signal isn't getting processed by the usb drivers.

Be aware that using a usb -> ps/2 adapter doesn't always guarantee the pros of ps/2 input if the keyboard's mainboard was originally optimized for usb.

I'll just post here the same as what I posted from another forum

after about a month since I used logitech G710+ here's my very bad feedback.

the keys easily let go of the caps. this is really annoying when playing osu mania. and what's worse is that just right now, the + shape of my X key was torn. one word: unusable now.

And I'm pretty sure this kind of damage is not covered in the warranty.

since its just one key I moved that destroyed key to the less-used ones (notably the numeric keypad). Just a warning on those two points.

the only + point I can give is that the PC can read 7 simultaneous key presses (I used Z, X, C, space, num4, num5, num6) which is not possible even with Razer Blackwidow.

and I paid this for 6500 php (roughly 144 - 162.5 USD)

I just changed from membrane to mechanical keyboard, and as I expected my accuracy goes down
I just want to ask is it better to play easy songs or hard songs to adapt to the mechanical keyboard?

And do I need to change like my hitposition or offset?
Thanks before

Well you absolutely don't "need" to. But it can help. I have, and others haven't.

As for song difficulty I don't believe it matters at all. I'd say play it all but really you can reach your goals in a multitude of different ways. Just have fun /o/

I used a Razer Blackwidow 2013 and the keys kinda broke easily for me. But blue's arent something for me, so I switched over to a CM Storm Quickfire TK with red's and i really like it. Been using it for quite a while, not too long.

And here I am wondering why my laptop keyboard feels better when encountering a burst, I mean like Bangin Burst Lvl 16 and Imperishable Night 4K Insane. Probably because I always bottom-out my mech.