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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Catch the Beat)

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Topic Starter
Tom94
Hello everyone,

I've got an initial iteration of the algorithm to show. Please remember to tell me which version you are talking about when giving feedback. Also please let me know which tuning seems the best to you. ;)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... 3emc#gid=1
119410501
Remove PP rankings.
DeletedUser_500696

119410501 wrote:

Remove PP rankings.
I disagree with this. PP is fun for a lot of people even if it will never be perfect.

It isn't accurate at all IMO to put so much weight on ctb specific maps, especially since there are so few. There are plenty of standard maps that translate into fun and difficult ctb maps. Also the best performance shouldn't be filled with easy SS's...
Ioka
dont. change. it. i will stay #84 forever. :) :)
Kingkevin30
i don't really know much about the "skill weight" in CTB... but because CTB uses just 2 axes the most "difficulty" increasing factors for me are the AR, the Distance between Notes and the CS.
-Ryuujii-
let peppy do whatever he thinks is right, after all he can't make all this kids happy.
Yuji Tokaji

-Ryuujii- wrote:

let peppy do whatever he thinks is right, after all he can't make all this kids happy.
Indeed. I'm fine with this new system.
DeathXHunter
I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
Riari

DeathXHunter wrote:

I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
This.

I think that if you play with a mod and Don't get an SS, it should weigh more than a SS nomod. I've had multiple plays like this and it really annoys me to know that my effort went to waste.
lineqtxz
approved > insane > hard

DeathXHunter wrote:

I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
and this^
Catgirl
I am a SS player, and my old rank of around #4300 wasn't really indicative of my skill at all (I should really be much lower). Any good play with mods should really benefit more to ranks, even if they don't full combo. It takes much more skill in CTB to play with HR and get say, 99.5%, than it does to play the same map with no mod and get SS.
119410501
I logged in yesterday and loved how the boxes without rank look, everybody is the same and plays just for fun. I really liked that.
Of course PP rank is totally better than the ranked score rank, but no rank is the best one.
Touche

lineqtxz wrote:

approved > insane > hard

DeathXHunter wrote:

I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
and this^
+1 to this

If CtB's SS has a high pp value, a lot of farmers will come back :s
WujekGrzyb

119410501 wrote:

I logged in yesterday and loved how the boxes without rank look, everybody is the same and plays just for fun. I really liked that.
Of course PP rank is totally better than the ranked score rank, but no rank is the best one.
Good guy 119410501.

I like players rank in each beatmap, so global rank could even stands for average places in every map :P
Kitsunemimi

Kingkevin30 wrote:

i don't really know much about the "skill weight" in CTB... but because CTB uses just 2 axes the most "difficulty" increasing factors for me are the AR, the Distance between Notes and the CS.
Mostly this ^

Also, there are some very difficult patterns in CtB such as slider streams and back/forth jumps since the hyperdash update.

You also have to remember that since vertical distance in CtB is nullified, you can't just calculate the total distance between notes, but instead, the left/right distance. The same goes for super speed slider streams, sometimes they're vertical so they're easy, but sometimes they're horizontal and almost impossible... It makes it a bit difficult and inconsistent to calculate difficulty.
iiyo
1: ------------------------------------- Scratch that

2: CTB ranking should be calucated by combo/overall map progression

3:why are droplets worth 10 points.. lol? we only get these droplets to get that SS Bonus for the PP.. so please fix that <3

4: another thing is spinner maps, in ctb there are pp maps called no spinner maps such as (Maware - Popner's Hard) https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122658 Which gave over 40-50 PP If you SS'd it with HR/HD because you would tie for 3rd/4th place and give alot of pp, but if you even miss 1 droplet you would lose all that pp gain

5: you should weigh HR/FL, also look at HD, there are tons of HD players in CTB


thanks - sabi

EDIT: I am a nomod player, i infact HATE HD, HD for me is just for pp, i love nomod and alot of people do, so try to make it fun for the both sides of the grass HD and Nomod
Sousaki

119410501 wrote:

no rank is the best one.
iiyo

Sousaki wrote:

119410501 wrote:

no rank is the best one.
Having no rank, means no motivation or drive to pass others, if you want to play casualy then go offline, in black ops there is casual gamers and serious gamers, in ppv1 it was perfect for both
Kazuo
there is a huge gap between ctb custom maps and normal maps
bomber34
HD should not be weighted that much ... or more or less like
- the lower the AR the more HD weights
on high AR you can ignore HD really
AR10 is a bitch no matter which mod though

DT should be weighted a bit less than HR but that also depends on how difficult the map overall is ... I hate DT since the control feels almost non existing in detailmovements >.>)

- imo dashes which are very closely no Hyperdashes (you still need to dash normally) are harder than normal Hyperdashes

- FL is weird, no opinion

no idea if the system can detect certain patterns well enough, especially very fast zigzags are hard

just my opinion though
good luck
YERTI


im okay with this rank
ZiRoX
I just hope you find a good way to measure difficulty. If you were to find one, you could compare all maps (converted and CTB-specific) with the same basis, and avoid giving CTB-specific maps a ridiculous bonus like it is now (a Cup diff I played almost 1 year ago is worth more than some harder converted maps I've been playing recently)
119410501

Sabi wrote:

Having no rank, means no motivation or drive to pass others, if you want to play casualy then go offline, in black ops there is casual gamers and serious gamers, in ppv1 it was perfect for both
Passing others shouldn't be based on a number.
I used to be motivated into rising ranks, I've always been high ranked, but the feeling of having no rank is priceless.
If you want to improve you still can without a rank.
OtakuFreak

Sabi wrote:

Having no rank, means no motivation or drive to pass others, if you want to play casualy then go offline, in black ops there is casual gamers and serious gamers, in ppv1 it was perfect for both
agree.No rank.No motivation.ppv1 please //runs
Yoishi
Accuracy based plz
zedrux1
difficulty for CTB recommend to consider a see estimated harder songs that have mostly notes from left to right and right to left

because if they are vertical notes are very senciallas, also taking into account the number of radioactive red fruits because if many should be considered the hardest song

even the speed of the fall fruit if not should consider is that some songs are too fast and not all get used to that speed so I say put a speed limiter of fallen fruit

and I think I should also consider the position in which you're but that the more players get superstructures + PP

and finally I think what most consider sebe difficulty is that order
- Size Cricle
- Rate Approach
- HP Drain
- Difficulty Overwall

Well that's all and greetings :P
Empress Junko
1. Difficulty of maps based on something similliar to osu!tp beatmap diffculties. (+ little boost of performance in CtB diffs.)
2. Boost of FL performance, reduce of HD farming.

Having no rank would be too drastical in my opinion.
Kolbe

YERTI wrote:



im okay with this rank
Sure you are ! xD
I got 77k yey !
Suikami

YERTI wrote:



im okay with this rank

Me too, lol

suggestion ? maybe same as others
approved > insane > hard
eldnl
About mods:

- Playing DT on AR9+ maps. example: https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=66853&m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=48416&m=2
- Playing HR on AR8+ maps. example: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/291996?m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/b/151017?m=2
- Playing HD on AR7- maps (but the map has to be a hard difficulty). https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=51308&m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=101727&m=2
- Playing FL on AR9+ maps. https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=86324&m=2

That's the harder stuff about mods.
About the normal difficulty of a map, you have to consider the x distance of the notes, including sliders, because the y distance doesn't matter at all.
The note density doesn't matter that much, everything is about the jumps, a fast bpm song without jumps will be easy, a slow bpm song with a lot of jump will be hard.
The stream jumps can be considered has something really hard.

If anyone can add something that would be great.
eldnl
edit double post.
Drafura

DeathXHunter wrote:

I think SS shouldn't be that much considered as it is in standard,or like it was in CtB,that's all what bothered me.
What are you talking about ?



Also I have no opinion about pp. /me get out of this thread.
DeathXHunter
Talking about that if u get SS you would've get a shitton of PP,1 droplet miss or more and you didnt even get close to the amount of PP.

Anyways Drafura,I'm lucky you mastered the alphabet!
Drafura

DeathXHunter wrote:

Anyways Drafura,I'm lucky you mastered the alphabet!
It took me some time.

Anyway /offtopic
eldnl

DeathXHunter wrote:

Talking about that if u get SS you would've get a shitton of PP,1 droplet miss or more and you didnt even get close to the amount of PP.

Anyways Drafura,I'm lucky you mastered the alphabet!
A droplet shouldn't be a big difference, the accuracy on ctb is a lot different from any other game mode.
DeathXHunter
Welp that's what i was trying to say ,was wrong considered on the old build. Anyways,keep sharing your opinons and dont complain ingame about your rank guys :)
- Rii -
1. SS shouldn't be weighted much
2. spinners shouldn't be weighted much (may still give a little bonus though)
3. HD on high AR shouldn't be weighted much.. sometimes it's even much easier to play high ARs with HD
4. DT should be equal or at least a bit less to HR, especially on AR9 or some maps with insane jumps. sometimes DT is even much harder than HR
5. a tp system for ctb would be good (where you collect the hardest to fc maps in ctb, rank them and made points based on that)

edit: ok i have no opinions for FL
Didfus
remove play counts :o
Slow
I want to remove the PP system..
CLSW
It would be impossible to remove pp ranking system on ctb :P

Guys, think it to better way, don't give up. We still don't know if new system will beloved?
Seph

- Rii - wrote:

where you collect the hardest to fc maps in ctb, rank them and made points based on that
"omg lets rank verdi maps!"

no.
- Rii -

Seph wrote:

- Rii - wrote:

where you collect the hardest to fc maps in ctb, rank them and made points based on that
"omg lets rank verdi maps!"

no.
k verdi maps is overrated

and i don't mean to get those sh*tmaps to be "ranked", just something like this for ctb
eldnl

- Rii - wrote:

1. SS shouldn't be weighted much
2. spinners shouldn't be weighted much (may still give a little bonus though)
3. HD on high AR shouldn't be weighted much.. sometimes it's even much easier to play high ARs with HD
4. DT should be equal or at least a bit less to HR, especially on AR9 or some maps with insane jumps. sometimes DT is even much harder than HR
5. a tp system for ctb would be good (where you collect the hardest to fc maps in ctb, rank them and made points based on that)

edit: ok i have no opinions for FL
DT is harder on AR9+ and high bpm jumpy maps.
VelperK

119410501 wrote:

Remove PP rankings.
now that's something nice to see from you!

yeah i agree
Seph

- Rii - wrote:

and i don't mean to get those sh*tmaps to be "ranked", just something like this for ctb
that is possible, its just that ctbtp would require manual inputs of maps, and difficulty of a map in ctb is quite arguable since player 1 can have troubles with a certain map while player 2 cant, and it goes vice versa
NecoNecoDouga
I express neutral opinion about this agenda.
Cuz If New ranking system is becoming, Maybe i can get more high ranking but i think that system will be not exciting for playing osu!
if system is staying like now, i can't get more high ranking but, there is exciting for getting more ranking with competition with others ranker

So i can't say certainly changing the system is good for me or not


( I'm not good at English So there are many grammatical errors)
Len

119410501 wrote:

Remove PP rankings.
^
autofanboy
cancel pp
viostrone

alienflybot wrote:

cancel pp
+1
S a o r i
delete the pp system
Ikillforpies
I think there should still be PP in the game. I like to see how i rank around the world. BUT, there should be a option to not show for those people who doesn't like PP or just want to play for fun. I like being competitive with people around me, so thats why i like PP and getting good rank on songs. There different people that play osu for a lots of reason (to have fun, to be #1). Just have a option that allows the people to show/not show their pp rankings.

Do you really want the old old ranking system back? Just playing ranked songs and get scores to be #1? Pretty sure all the people who wants to delete this pp rank want this style back. Which is really shitty of a ranking system...
Topic Starter
Tom94
Nobody forces anyone of you to look at a ranking number. I don't see a reason to remove something, that a big portion of the player-base wants, that is not invasive at all towards anyone. :o
MotherFish_old
Cancel pp
Accel World
\:D/ who care the ppv2? YOU? Too young Too simple!
[Nemesis]
also, please make DT multiplier 1.12
palladium260
I like the pp system, but certainly I prefer not having rank at all rather than having an unfair one.
Ikillforpies
It would be nice that for those people who doesn't want pp should at least HAVE A FREAKING REASON TOO... And not just the normal JUST PLAY FOR FUN reason!... At least say why you don't want it. Explain yourselves
bomber34

Ikillforpies wrote:

It would be nice that for those people who doesn't want pp should at least HAVE A FREAKING REASON TOO... And not just the normal JUST PLAY FOR FUN reason!... At least say why you don't want it. Explain yourselves
lol the "Just play for fun" is actually a nice reason
without pp you can concentrate easier on the top50 rankings of your favourite songs and maps only without thinking about the whole ranking, since your fav. song/map might be something way easier than Big Black shitmaps
If there were no pp, you would feel better when you rank high on your fav. maps.
The overall harder maps just decrease the worth you would gave the maps you were enjoying more and where you ranked better, because the hard ones give more pp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know there are a lot of contra arguments against that point but that is one reason.

Also that is not my real opinion about pp I just wanted to bring another point of view you asked for
DeletedUser_500696

bomber34 wrote:

Ikillforpies wrote:

It would be nice that for those people who doesn't want pp should at least HAVE A FREAKING REASON TOO... And not just the normal JUST PLAY FOR FUN reason!... At least say why you don't want it. Explain yourselves
lol the "Just play for fun" is actually a nice reason
without pp you can concentrate easier on the top50 rankings of your favourite songs and maps only without thinking about the whole ranking, since your fav. song/map might be something way easier than Big Black shitmaps
If there were no pp, you would feel better when you rank high on your fav. maps.
The overall harder maps just decrease the worth you would gave the maps you were enjoying more and where you ranked better, because the hard ones give more pp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know there are a lot of contra arguments against that point but that is one reason.

Also that is not my real opinion about pp I just wanted to bring another point of view you asked for
In that case, isn't it just an issue with ppv1? If you don't want to be rewarded for an easy map, this can be fixed in ppv2 like standard. I personally like the confirmation of a genuinely good rank on a difficult map when I receive pp, but I agree that a less competitive system could allow players to enjoy themselves more and not take ctb so seriously.
Kanegae

Sabi wrote:

2: CTB ranking should be calucated by combo/overall map progression

3:why are droplets worth 10 points.. lol? we only get these droplets to get that SS Bonus for the PP.. so please fix that <3

4: another thing is spinner maps, in ctb there are pp maps called no spinner maps such as (Maware - Popner's Hard) https://osu.ppy.sh/s/122658 Which gave over 40-50 PP If you SS'd it with HR/HD because you would tie for 3rd/4th place and give alot of pp, but if you even miss 1 droplet you would lose all that pp gain

5: you should weigh HR/FL, also look at HD, there are tons of HD players in CTB


thanks - sabi

EDIT: I am a nomod player, i infact HATE HD, HD for me is just for pp, i love nomod and alot of people do, so try to make it fun for the both sides of the grass HD and Nomod

That's pretty much my opinion. And I do think that missing ONE DROPLET is not a reason to lose all the pp you would get from a SS.
DeathXHunter
After all there will be ppv2 hopefully,so the guys who say that the ranking should be removed just play for the fun and let the other guys discuss what should be considered in the upcoming system and not ask for removing it,lol.
[Super Shock]_old

DeathXHunter wrote:

After all there will be ppv2 hopefully,so the guys who say that the ranking should be removed just play for the fun and let the other guys discuss what should be considered in the upcoming system and not ask for removing it,lol.


^
-Ryuujii-

DeathXHunter wrote:

After all there will be ppv2 hopefully,so the guys who say that the ranking should be removed just play for the fun and let the other guys discuss what should be considered in the upcoming system and not ask for removing it,lol.
Ikillforpies

bomber34 wrote:

Ikillforpies wrote:

It would be nice that for those people who doesn't want pp should at least HAVE A FREAKING REASON TOO... And not just the normal JUST PLAY FOR FUN reason!... At least say why you don't want it. Explain yourselves
lol the "Just play for fun" is actually a nice reason
without pp you can concentrate easier on the top50 rankings of your favourite songs and maps only without thinking about the whole ranking, since your fav. song/map might be something way easier than Big Black shitmaps
If there were no pp, you would feel better when you rank high on your fav. maps.
The overall harder maps just decrease the worth you would gave the maps you were enjoying more and where you ranked better, because the hard ones give more pp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know there are a lot of contra arguments against that point but that is one reason.

Also that is not my real opinion about pp I just wanted to bring another point of view you asked for
A good post :D
I am just sick of people saying. delete the pp system with no explanation/reason.

But this is why that there should be a option that allows disable seeing PP in your ranks and everyone else profile. There should be a option saying, disable seeing all pp.
Or Maybe a option too be take place in the PP ranking. If you don't want to be PP ranking, you shouldn't be. But if you want to take place in the pp ranking you should. There should be a option saying if you want to take place in the pp rankings.
If you don't see any pp, you won't get stressed about it.
While there people who want to see pp and see where they place in the world. And feel happy inside ( example:that i am #10 in this country, ect)
VelperK
pp = competition -> competition = conflicts -> conflicts = "lol u suck noob"
no pp = no competition -> no competition = much less conflicts -> much less conflicts = "wanna play some multi m8?"

but yeah, i just said i'd like pp rankings to be removed, not like i don't have a reason to think like that or the other people don't. i know pp is going to get on again but that doesn't mean i can't say that pp is completely stupid and is a waste of developer's time
Revion

DeathXHunter wrote:

After all there will be ppv2 hopefully,so the guys who say that the ranking should be removed just play for the fun and let the other guys discuss what should be considered in the upcoming system and not ask for removing it,lol.
I agree with you.
_none_old

wdf this.
Best Performance is only ctb maps...

CTB map + Easy = Best pp(over +100 pp)

Edit : ppv2 isn't based on osu!tp Diffculty.
and other modes(mania,CTB,Taiko) pp grows if i play exclusive maps.

Edit2 : so i don't like ppv2. just get back to ppv1.
Suikami
so what i've been spectate in the game
CTB maps is too much pp giving (especially Overdose and Rain)
so there's less (even no) converted maps (even that's hard as hell map, 0108 as example) listed on Top Performance..

so why not lightening the pp in CTB Map specified ? the comparison between converted maps (the approved ones) and CTB Maps is 3:1 (CMIIW), right ?
He Ang CTB
Question: The new salary system is coming, we want to make it even better than the previous, what are your opinions on how our workers should be paid? What should we modify to make the system be even more fairly based on ability and hardwork?

Top paid: Remove the whole salary system. Because I like working as what I like to work as, pay is pretty much meaningless, passion is way more crucial, and competitiveness can give rise to many conflict and, so no one should receive any money at all. This is factually absolute equality, the most equal way of treating everyone.
Question answered: Do y'all want salary? What do you think of the salary system?

Average & low paid: Yes we do want to be paid, even though we still enjoy our job and lesser pay doesn't necessary make us less happy with the job, but knowing that being better at this job or being better than other workers will earn me more pay, that competitiveness drives us on, we want to be rewarded for our hardwork and abilities and enjoy meritocracy as the way it is.
Question answered: RE: Do y'all want salary? What do you think of the salary system?

Those who want everyone to be paid as fairly as possible: I think HR and DT should ... And AR of songs are more important than ...
Question answered: The new salary system is coming, we want to make it even better than the previous, what are your opinions on how our workers should be paid? What should we modify to make the system be even more fairly based on ability and hardwork?

People stick to the original question please. The author is asking what to do to make the pp system better than the previous, not whether the pp system should exist in the first place. Suggesting to remove pp is as good as suggesting to remove the grading systems in exams. For peace-loving players out there who doesn't want to be judged by ranks it's okay, you can ignore the whole system and still be able to play for your own passion. But for those competition-loving players out there who seeks the satisfaction of being better than others, they need a platform to do so, and that platform is the pp system, having it removed is removing the joy of competitive players, not having it however does not remove the joy of non-competitive players. Just like some people said you can always play as a guest and check the scores of top 50 to see if you're on your favourite songs and go online when you want to play multiplayer, you have nothing to lose. Whereas for competitive players, they still have top 50s and Chart rankings, but they lose a whole platform of pp ranking. Even though the pp system is not exact, just like everything else, it has an error range, it is generally quite accurate, and that's why the developers want to make it even more accurate to serve the community better by reducing its error range with more sound calculations of more gaming elements.

My opinion on the real question is very similar to eldnl's proposal. Except that I think FL of anything more than AR7 and 500 combos should get players a greater reward than otherwise.

Weightage of beatmap elements difficulty in CTB/What are considered in calculating map difficulty (In order of importance):

1. Circle Size (Linear)
2. Jumps quickness and consecutiveness (Exponential)
3. Jumps amounts (Linear)
4. Approach Rate (Exponential)
5. Catcher's sensitivity/movement speed (Quadratic)
5. HP drain (Logarithmic)
6. Overall difficulty (What does this actually do? Make spinners harder? I'll not rate it since I don't know)

Mods/Score multipliers (Not in order of importance):
Bonus:
1. HD (Logarithmic)
2. DT/NC (Exponential)
3. HR (Exponential)
4. FL (Exponential)
5. No mod (Linear)
Penalty:
5. EZ (Linear)
6. HT (Linear)
7. NF (Exponential)
Special:
No change

Ranking conditions:
1. Top ranks of the song achieved and not every time a person plays.
2. Retries doesn't count.
3. Failures doesn't count.
4. CTB special maps only give 10% more ranking bonus.
5. Star difficulty doesn't count.
6. Actually overall map difficulty increase pp intake exponentially.
7. A person can lose pp, but only when he/she is being pushed downwards by others (e.g. #1 taken away).
8. Accuracy matters but only linearly.
9. SS should have a 5% extra bonus above S. But SSH has no extra bonus above SS.
10. A person can gain a little bit of pp when others are ranked bellowed them (e.g. #1/500 ---> #1/1000, gain 0.1% extra pp per percentage increase in the original amount of people playing it, in this case, gain 0.2% extra pp after 1 day)
11. pp depletes linearly but very little per day, like 0.0001% every day.
12. Spinners award the same amount of reward as in ppv1.
13. Increase value of droplets from 10 points to 50 points, thus increasing its impact on accuracy value by 5 times too.

There might be other things I want to add on later, when I think of it, I'll add it in :)
Topic Starter
Tom94

Mania Vocaloid wrote:

CTB map + Easy = Best pp(over +100 pp)

Edit : ppv2 isn't based on osu!tp Diffculty.
and other modes(mania,CTB,Taiko) pp grows if i play exclusive maps.

Edit2 : so i don't like ppv2. just get back to ppv1.
Please read the first post.

Tom94 wrote:

note that currently the Catch the Beat ranking is not functional.

To everyone else: Unfortunately I can't reply to every big suggestion post, but they all have been read and understood. I will give out more information as soon as I find the time to start working on the CtB pp.
Loctav
Please keep the discussion structured. If you are incapable to contribute in a constructive manner, your posts will be removed and penalities will be given out.
119410501
Here he comes blocking the free speech.
Infamous Shadow
Give me back my #193 in ctb mode!!!
jaibo
I think some people in this thread are not being realistic, osu has always been a competitive game so there must be some ranking system going on
though i agree it was more fun to play without a rank since you dont carry a stigma because of your number, but by saying "disable pp" in this thread you are not contributing at all!
if you want ranks to be disabled again you should post something on Feature req like "no rank day once a month" or something?

I agree that it should be something like
approved > insane > hard
since i had the impression that with ppv1 hard maps where giving more points than insane and approved ones? and thats a bit unfair

and i think SS should be weighed since, well, its 100% and against 99,9% SS is still a better performance, but it wouldnt be fair if you got pp only when you rank SS either so something based on the accuracy you get in a map would make everyone happy if applied fairly, the more accuracy the more pp you win considering your max combo

about the score multipliers i think DT and HR should be weighed more since HD never seemed to me like a very hard-to-play mod not even in standard, to me its more like an ornament rather than a challenge but thats just my opinion
Rorona
Okay, so I didn't read all the things in the thread, so I'll just lay out things I can think of off the top of my head.

AR10 should be weighted heavier than most things, and if you have mods, even more so, because ar10 is actually like unplayable for most CtB players.
Marathon maps should be weighted a little more than they were, especially if they pass 10 minutes, and even more so if you SS/SSH it.
Difficult songs with low AR should be ranked more. Example:Asumi Kana & Fujita Saki & Kitamura Eri - COOLISH WALK (TV Size) - [Ex]
Super high CS should be weighted heavier.
ConanCloud
(At first, I´m sorry for my bad english)

I think the pp system, should be allowed only for players, they want to play with the system.
A lot of people arent interested in the system and the "no pp player" should be removed from the pp system. Maybe, peppy can script a question on the userpage or here https://osu.ppy.sh/p/pp. You can choose then for yourself, that you play with or not with the system.
After this, the pp ranklist should be more clearer then before.

Sure a lot of good players whould be famer then before, but fun is more important then fame.
If you want to be fame, than play scoccer, draw mangas or do something right in the world, but osu! isnt like this! Is just a game ;)
119410501

ConanCloud wrote:

(At first, I´m sorry for my bad english)

I think the pp system, should be allowed only for players, they want to play with the system.
A lot of people arent interested in the system and the "no pp player" should be removed from the pp system. Maybe, peppy can script a question on the userpage or here https://osu.ppy.sh/p/pp. You can choose then for yourself, that you play with or not with the system.
After this, the pp ranklist should be more clearer then before.

Sure a lot of good players whould be famer then before, but fun is more important then fame.
If you want to be fame, than play scoccer, draw mangas or do something right in the world, but osu! isnt like this! Is just a game ;)
This is the best idea (that will not be considered) that I heard so far.
Spectre
I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:

1. As DeathXHunter said before, SS should have less weight in the formula since it's easier to SS in Catch The Beat compared to other modes.

2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.

3. DT should have more weight overall since players can DT AR8 maps that are difficult and get little to no reward for it in the previous system. The higher the AR the more weight it should have since it doesn't cap at AR10 like HR does.

4. HD should have more weight on maps that are difficult rather than having it static throughout all maps.

5. AR10 maps should have a lot of weight since not many players in CTB can read AR10 and the maps with it are really difficult.

6. For CTB specifics, Deluge should have most weight with every difficulty level below it having less weight than the one above.

7. HR should have more weight than DT at AR7 and AR8 but should have less at AR9+ since it caps out at AR10.

8. There are maps that are considered easier to do on CTB than on standard example being Freedom Dive that should'nt be weighed as heavily on ctb due to it being mostly streams.

9. There are auto-converts that are harder than some ctb specifics that should weigh more in this case. CTB Specifics shouldn't outweigh every map just because it's a specific.

I'll give more suggestions as I think of them.
-Ryuujii-

TenguKing9 wrote:

I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:

1. As DeathXHunter said before, SS should have less weight in the formula since it's easier to SS in Catch The Beat compared to other modes.

2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.

3. DT should have more weight overall since players can DT AR8 maps that are difficult and get little to no reward for it in the previous system. The higher the AR the more weight it should have since it doesn't cap at AR10 like HR does.

4. HD should have more weight on maps that are difficult rather than having it static throughout all maps.

5. AR10 maps should have a lot of weight since not many players in CTB can read AR10 and the maps with it are really difficult.

6. For CTB specifics, Deluge should have most weight with every difficulty level below it having less weight than the one above.

7. HR should have more weight than DT at AR7 and AR8 but should have less at AR9+ since it caps out at AR10.

8. There are maps that are considered easier to do on CTB than on standard example being Freedom Dive that should'nt be weighed as heavily on ctb due to it being mostly streams.

9. There are auto-converts that are harder than some ctb specifics that should weigh more in this case. CTB Specifics shouldn't outweigh every map just because it's a specific.
i Agree with this , also one more thing, a map that has no spins and you have to SS to get the pp is bs in my opinion, in other words SS no spin should not weight as much.
Rorona

TenguKing9 wrote:

7. HR should have more weight than DT at AR7 and AR8 but should have less at AR9+ since it caps out at AR10.
IMO AR10 with HR is still harder than AR10 with HD. Just because the AR doesn't increase anymore doesn't mean that it doesn't get way harder. (cause like things get further apart and the cs gets smaller)
bomber34

TenguKing9 wrote:

I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:

2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
I disagree but maybe you just misswrote or so ...
it should not give to much bonus but it should weight more than no mod, because next to memorization you still need the skill to play the map.
If you suck at a map, memorizing everything won't help you at all anyway when it comes to this mod.
Spectre

Rorona wrote:

TenguKing9 wrote:

7. HR should have more weight than DT at AR7 and AR8 but should have less at AR9+ since it caps out at AR10.
IMO AR10 with HR is still harder than AR10 with HD. Just because the AR doesn't increase anymore doesn't mean that it doesn't get way harder. (cause like things get further apart and the cs gets smaller)
Playing AR9 or AR10 with DT is incredibly difficult since it's faster than AR10 at this point. I do agree with you that HR with AR10 is harder than playing it with HD, but the point is that AR9 with DT is much harder than AR9 with HR because it is AR10.3 and you have less time to react.

bomber34 wrote:

TenguKing9 wrote:

I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:

2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.
I disagree but maybe you just misswrote or so ...
it should not give to much bonus but it should weight more than no mod, because next to memorization you still need the skill to play the map.
If you suck at a map, memorizing everything won't help you at all anyway when it comes to this mod.
I meant this for low AR plays such as AR6 and below. Anything above AR7 with this mod should have a bonus like you said but not as big as per say DT or HR.
bomber34

TenguKing9 wrote:

I meant this for low AR plays such as AR6 and below. Anything above AR7 with this mod should have a bonus like you said but not as big as per say DT or HR.
okay, then it is alright
-Ryuujii-
Between DT on Ar8 and HR on Ar8 = HR Ar8 should be slightly weight more. But not that big of a difference.

By the Way I am still thinking that my opinion on a map that has no spins and you have to SS to get the pp is not good, in other words SS no spin should not weight as much.

P.s, There is many People that have opinions or that i know that have opinions, so feel free to suggest stuff, this is your time to give your opinion and make PP System Fair.
Suikami

TenguKing9 wrote:

I have a few suggestions that I would like to give for this system:

1. As DeathXHunter said before, SS should have less weight in the formula since it's easier to SS in Catch The Beat compared to other modes.

2. Since FL is heavily based on memorization rather than actual skill it should be weighed a bit less than no mod plays.

3. DT should have more weight overall since players can DT AR8 maps that are difficult and get little to no reward for it in the previous system. The higher the AR the more weight it should have since it doesn't cap at AR10 like HR does.

4. HD should have more weight on maps that are difficult rather than having it static throughout all maps.

5. AR10 maps should have a lot of weight since not many players in CTB can read AR10 and the maps with it are really difficult.

6. For CTB specifics, Deluge should have most weight with every difficulty level below it having less weight than the one above.

7. HR should have more weight than DT at AR7 and AR8 but should have less at AR9+ since it caps out at AR10.

8. There are maps that are considered easier to do on CTB than on standard example being Freedom Dive that should'nt be weighed as heavily on ctb due to it being mostly streams.

9. There are auto-converts that are harder than some ctb specifics that should weigh more in this case. CTB Specifics shouldn't outweigh every map just because it's a specific.

I'll give more suggestions as I think of them.
This is what I'm talking about...
Spectre
Which is why I pointed that one out since I agree with what you posted. I don't know about the rest of the players but I wouldn't like seeing only ctb specifics in my top performance list.
ZiRoX

jaibo wrote:

I agree that it should be something like
approved > insane > hard
Completely disagree with this. A map being approved doesn't necessarily mean it's harder than an Insane diff. The way tp works (calculating the difficulty of each map) should be ok.
Spectre

eldnl wrote:

About mods:

- Playing DT on AR9+ maps. example: https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=66853&m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=48416&m=2
- Playing HR on AR8+ maps. example: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/291996?m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/b/151017?m=2
- Playing HD on AR7- maps (but the map has to be a hard difficulty). https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=51308&m=2 - https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=101727&m=2
- Playing FL on AR9+ maps. https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=86324&m=2

That's the harder stuff about mods.
About the normal difficulty of a map, you have to consider the x distance of the notes, including sliders, because the y distance doesn't matter at all.
The note density doesn't matter that much, everything is about the jumps, a fast bpm song without jumps will be easy, a slow bpm song with a lot of jump will be hard.
The stream jumps can be considered has something really hard.

If anyone can add something that would be great.

Adding on to what eldnl said, I put some maps together that are hard with no mod according to AR (Feel free to elaborate on these):

I realized that I have missed maps that are hard but these are just some that I can quickly think off the top of my head so please bear with that.

AR8 - Kirby Mix difficulties, Non stop road [hich's Rain], Emerald Sword [Extreme], The Beginning [AngelHoney], WAWAWA SPEED mix [Marathon], Wing my way [Hell-jumping]

AR9 - With a Dance Number [0108 style], No39 [0108 style], Talent Shredder [0108], Six Trillion [0108], FREEDMAN [Freedom, Iyasine, Nouk], Skystar difficulties except for Artcore Jinja, Homework Crisis [Let's Jump!!] (HD Bonus suggested for this one) , MISTAKE [Ms.0108, Chewu], I [Another], Intersect Thunderbolt [Thunderbolt], Rubik's Cube [Cube], COSMOS [Cosmos], Dragons [Insane] (HD bonus suggested with this one)

AR10 - Image Material [Scorpiour], The Creator [Nyaten], Kyouki Chinden [Madness Precipitation], Rog-unlimitation [AngelHoney], I [Terror]
- Rii -

TenguKing9 wrote:

AR10 - Image Material [Scorpiour], The Creator [Nyaten], Kyouki Chinden [Madness Precipitation], Rog-unlimitation [AngelHoney], I [Terror]
you forgot Blue Dragon's
Rorona

TenguKing9 wrote:

Playing AR9 or AR10 with DT is incredibly difficult since it's faster than AR10 at this point. I do agree with you that HR with AR10 is harder than playing it with HD, but the point is that AR9 with DT is much harder than AR9 with HR because it is AR10.3 and you have less time to react.
Er. I read HD, not DT the first time, I swear.

OT: FLHD should be worth more. (does anyone even play that?)
Callionet
Remove performance points.
Nepu
some personal opinions o.o

Just like the tp system, I think the ability of playing CtB can be divided into different aspects and can't be treated like "this map is definitely harder than that map"

imo,there are 3 aspects:

1.the ability of reaction. This is based mostly on AR. a good example is many people can't FC AR10(or AR8+HR) maps

2.the ability of moving smoothly. A such example is that it's very hard to get SS when CS is high. one may always miss droplets here and there.The other situtation is when play with DT mod,it's harder to get SS since the movement of plate is accelerated too.

3.the ability of "jumping" correctly. A such example is this map. you can watch the reps as some continous left-right jumps.

There are also some auto-converts created strange arrange of friuts. But under most situation it can be treated as combing ability 2 and 3.

HD can't be treated as a normal mod in CtB, there are a lot of people who can't play even a little HD as well as people who can't play without HD when AR is high. But low AR HD should always consider a hard mod, imo.

Will add more if I think of them. :D
Yes Sir Popesama
I suggest the user panel display 2 ranks : the total score rank and the pp rank
whatever pp‘s algorithm adust, not everyone is satisified.
According to peppy's thought, pp should reflect the player's skill. I come up with an idea of this: the Arena mode. Only mp can reflect the player's truly skill, so, in the arena mode, there are two teams, 8 players can go the match, the winner team add the pp, the loser lost pp,a bit like laddar mode in dota. the postion is random accorriding to pp .
Just a simple idea for refference
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