well, the most unexpected thing in this new ppv2 system is that its algorithm is totally different than osu!tp....look at my profile to see the difference between my tp and pp TT^TT
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Mine shows a completely different picture.. All my Top TP scores = Top PP exacly!
Even my ranks on both systems are close to each other.
Even my ranks on both systems are close to each other.
It was never supposed to be tp, peppy bringing Tom into this is something we had no idea about. Where did you get the idea that ppv2 was going to be identical, or even similar to tp?Kinji wrote:
well, the most unexpected thing in this new ppv2 system is that its algorithm is totally different than osu!tp....look at my profile to see the difference between my tp and pp TT^TT
Well, because when peppy says that ppv2 is going to measure the player skills, and unable to farm easily, I thought it should be something like the tp system, since it measures the speed, aim and accuracy of the player....which is closest to measuring a player skills....Draxuss wrote:
It was never supposed to be tp, peppy bringing Tom into this is something we had no idea about. Where did you get the idea that ppv2 was going to be identical, or even similar to tp?
Topic Starter
pp already scales with map length and thus a flat multiplier on your aim points indirectly has map length scaling inside it, too.Akari- wrote:
Kytoxid wrote:
[...] only tweak i would suggest is making FL's aim bonus scale with map length instead of being a flat bonus (i don't even like FL players but this only seems fair)
I got None S on Tsukasa - Accelerator [Maximum]. It was my 5th Best Perfomance List.
and I got Hidden S on that beatmap today. but It deleted my Best Perfomance List.
What's going on?
and I got Hidden S on that beatmap today. but It deleted my Best Perfomance List.
What's going on?
Topic Starter
Your accuracy went worse.[UsaMi] Reisen wrote:
I got None S on Tsukasa - Accelerator [Maximum]. It was my 5th Best Perfomance List.
and I got Hidden S on that beatmap today. but It deleted my Best Perfomance List.
What's going on?
Well, at the first look the ppv2 made a really good impression for me.. But at the second look.. Kaykay, it's basically based on skill and stuff. Perfect so far. But... Everytime I reach a highscore on any map, including mods and stuff, my pp just DROPS down. My accuracy never is worse than 98,5%.
Playing new insane maps w/ DT and HD (rank #6) - my pp drops.
Playing new hard maps WITHOUT any mods - nothing happens.
Are you serious?.. I don't have any pleasure to play Osu! anymore, just because I feel tricked with this new system..
Even some friends of me who actually are much worse than me overtake my rank.
Conclusion: Are you serious dude? ;_;
Playing new insane maps w/ DT and HD (rank #6) - my pp drops.
Playing new hard maps WITHOUT any mods - nothing happens.
Are you serious?.. I don't have any pleasure to play Osu! anymore, just because I feel tricked with this new system..
Even some friends of me who actually are much worse than me overtake my rank.
Conclusion: Are you serious dude? ;_;
Topic Starter
Your pp literally can not drop unless you're beating old scores of yourself with scores that pp considers worse. Which rank you get on a specific map is irrelevant - the system only looks at the quality of your score and the map.Nyzashi wrote:
Well, at the first look the ppv2 made a really good impression for me.. But at the second look.. Kaykay, it's basically based on skill and stuff. Perfect so far. But... Everytime I reach a highscore on any map, including mods and stuff, my pp just DROPS down. My accuracy never is worse than 98,5%.
Playing new insane maps w/ DT and HD (rank #6) - my pp drops.
Playing new hard maps WITHOUT any mods - nothing happens.
Are you serious?.. I don't have any pleasure to play Osu! anymore, just because I feel tricked with this new system..
Even some friends of me who actually are much worse than me overtake my rank.
Conclusion: Are you serious dude? ;_;
Mkay.. Anyways. It doesn't make sense at all. It happens to me at EVERY map. I was also beating some old scores. My pp just drops down more and more. And i've just no loss anymore. I won't even try to top old scores, or download new beatmaps. Because i don't want my pp to be too scrappy e.eTom94 wrote:
Your pp literally can not drop unless you're beating old scores of yourself with scores that pp considers worse. Which rank you get on a specific map is irrelevant - the system only looks at the quality of your score and the map.
Topic Starter
Your best performance scores consist of Insane full-combo scores. Don't expect to top them off with the [Hard] scores you've been doing recently. What you are most likely seeing dropping is your rank, not your pp. That one is not dropping because you are playing other maps, but because other people simply rise higher while you stay where you are.Nyzashi wrote:
Mkay.. Anyways. It doesn't make sense at all. It happens to me at EVERY map. I was also beating some old scores. My pp just drops down more and more. And i've just no loss anymore. I won't even try to top old scores, or download new beatmaps. Because i don't want my pp to be too scrappy e.eTom94 wrote:
Your pp literally can not drop unless you're beating old scores of yourself with scores that pp considers worse. Which rank you get on a specific map is irrelevant - the system only looks at the quality of your score and the map.
Try playing and full-comboing harder maps if you want to gain more pp.
Okay I feel really dumb now.. But it STILL doesn't make very much sense to me ._. The scores change as soon as I play an Insane map with a full combo. (Including mods). I also reach a high rank score very often. It seems correct to me that my rank is changing basing on the other players activity. But it always happens AFTER I hit a new highscore on any insane map. When I'm playing hard maps, just to gain another S / SS, not to gain more pp, nothing happens.Tom94 wrote:
Your best performance scores consist of Insane full-combo scores. Don't expect to top them off with the [Hard] scores you've been doing recently. What you are most likely seeing dropping is your rank, not your pp. That one is not dropping because you are playing other maps, but because other people simply rise higher while you stay where you are.
Try playing and full-comboing harder maps if you want to gain more pp.
It's still weird in my eyes and I just don't understand that..
Kk. Thank you anyways ._.
As a player with not that high a ranking I just want to say: it feels downright depressing to beat a score in your top 10 (I've done this 4 times today) and then not only not gain pp for it, but also have it drop from your top 10. it seems like this is happening because of accuracy being worse, but the fact that we cant choose which score is considered combined with the fact that higherscore=/= most pp anymore is INCREDIBLY frustrating. I feel like there's no point trying to fc things i haven't before or using mods because even if I manage a better score (the point of a rhythm game?) I might not necessarily see any gain from it. It feels like I'm being punished for trying to beat my score not rewarded.
EDIT: I just checked one of the situations where a rank dropped from my top 10. I played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/281672 and had an A rank 300ish combo FC being 584. This popped into my top 10 today for some reason (the score was old so i assumed from reshuffling of how the maps are measured). Anyway, i then proceeded to FC the map with a HIGHER accuracy, and now it is GONE from my top 10. No mods were used in either playthrough. Please someone explain this makes no sense to me.
EDIT: I just checked one of the situations where a rank dropped from my top 10. I played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/281672 and had an A rank 300ish combo FC being 584. This popped into my top 10 today for some reason (the score was old so i assumed from reshuffling of how the maps are measured). Anyway, i then proceeded to FC the map with a HIGHER accuracy, and now it is GONE from my top 10. No mods were used in either playthrough. Please someone explain this makes no sense to me.
It seems like accuracy is much more valuated than before. I had a DT score with 1x100, then "improved" it by using HD in addition to DT and got 6x100 FC. By overwriting this score I even lost some pp. Afterwards I improved the score again, making this time 1x100 (with DT+HD) and got over 15 pp for that.
I also noticed the same behaviour for a HD SS score which got replaced by a 97.44% HD+HR. As it is right now, it seems that it is only worth playing with HD+HR if you actually can archive 98%+ accuracy with it.
I also noticed the same behaviour for a HD SS score which got replaced by a 97.44% HD+HR. As it is right now, it seems that it is only worth playing with HD+HR if you actually can archive 98%+ accuracy with it.
Nyzashi...
The argument you formed which made you say pp doesn't make sense to you was that your pp was decreasing after getting some FC on some random map, Tom told you it didn't and that what was dropping was your rank. After that you still say it doesn't make any sense without any argument.
Have you thought about the fact that you check your rank AFTER PLAYING A MAP AND GETTING A SCORE THAT COULD AFFECT YOUR RANK which means you will ONLY NOTICE CHANGES ON YOUR RANK AFTER PLAYING A MAP SINCE THAT'S WHEN YOU CHECK IT? Also, the system itself probably takes time to update stuff so it might happen that changes are shown suddenly after some specific period of time.
The argument you formed which made you say pp doesn't make sense to you was that your pp was decreasing after getting some FC on some random map, Tom told you it didn't and that what was dropping was your rank. After that you still say it doesn't make any sense without any argument.
Have you thought about the fact that you check your rank AFTER PLAYING A MAP AND GETTING A SCORE THAT COULD AFFECT YOUR RANK which means you will ONLY NOTICE CHANGES ON YOUR RANK AFTER PLAYING A MAP SINCE THAT'S WHEN YOU CHECK IT? Also, the system itself probably takes time to update stuff so it might happen that changes are shown suddenly after some specific period of time.
To be honest, I really dislike that new ranking system. And I'm not saying this, because it dropped me by 10k ranks.
It just ranks those with little skill way too high. Some friends of mine occasionally rank somewhere in the thousands of an insane map. (Usually not even with a full combo.) What sucks is, that these guys rank way too high by just performing shitty on maps which are just too hard for them.
This system doesn't evaluate the performance according to the skill as promised, else these guys wouldn't rank in the mid 2k's now.
It's not fun to see unskilled people cruising around in the front while being thrown behind by some pointless logic. The way it is now, the game is really not fun to play anymore. I just hope we can get some fairer ranking system.
It just ranks those with little skill way too high. Some friends of mine occasionally rank somewhere in the thousands of an insane map. (Usually not even with a full combo.) What sucks is, that these guys rank way too high by just performing shitty on maps which are just too hard for them.
This system doesn't evaluate the performance according to the skill as promised, else these guys wouldn't rank in the mid 2k's now.
It's not fun to see unskilled people cruising around in the front while being thrown behind by some pointless logic. The way it is now, the game is really not fun to play anymore. I just hope we can get some fairer ranking system.
Could you give specific examples? I highly doubt that players who "can't even FC Insanes" are ranked "in the 2000s".xBeater wrote:
To be honest, I really dislike that new ranking system. And I'm not saying this, because it dropped me by 10k ranks.
It just ranks those with little skill way too high. Some friends of mine occasionally rank somewhere in the thousands of an insane map. (Usually not even with a full combo.) What sucks is, that these guys rank way too high by just performing shitty on maps which are just too hard for them.
This system doesn't evaluate the performance according to the skill as promised, else these guys wouldn't rank in the mid 2k's now.
It's not fun to see unskilled people cruising around in the front while being thrown behind by some pointless logic. The way it is now, the game is really not fun to play anymore. I just hope we can get some fairer ranking system.
Dalvoid wrote:
As a player with not that high a ranking I just want to say: it feels downright depressing to beat a score in your top 10 (I've done this 4 times today) and then not only not gain pp for it, but also have it drop from your top 10. it seems like this is happening because of accuracy being worse, but the fact that we cant choose which score is considered combined with the fact that higherscore=/= most pp anymore is INCREDIBLY frustrating. I feel like there's no point trying to fc things i haven't before or using mods because even if I manage a better score (the point of a rhythm game?) I might not necessarily see any gain from it. It feels like I'm being punished for trying to beat my score not rewarded.
EDIT: I just checked one of the situations where a rank dropped from my top 10. I played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/281672 and had an A rank 300ish combo FC being 584. This popped into my top 10 today for some reason (the score was old so i assumed from reshuffling of how the maps are measured). Anyway, i then proceeded to FC the map with a HIGHER accuracy, and now it is GONE from my top 10. No mods were used in either playthrough. Please someone explain this makes no sense to me.
it's still there man, what the hell are you smoking?
I'm not going to name these people here, for obvious reasons.Luna wrote:
Could you give specific examples? I highly doubt that players who "can't even FC Insanes" are ranked "in the 2000s".
But what I mean is practically: they finish the map with an A or B and are like #~1-2k in the overall map ranking, but get an insane amount of points.
I won't deny that they did some really good scores but never enough to rank that high. Most of the time it's just like the case I described above.
If they do good but make a miss or two I really don't see how that makes them bad or unable to fc insanes. I have insanes with like 98-99% acc and a miss which gave pp, would you say I'm worse than those who got 96% fc?xBeater wrote:
I'm not going to name these people here, for obvious reasons.Luna wrote:
Could you give specific examples? I highly doubt that players who "can't even FC Insanes" are ranked "in the 2000s".
But what I mean is practically: they finish the map with an A or B and are like #~1-2k in the overall map ranking, but get an insane amount of points.
I won't deny that they did some really good scores but never enough to rank that high. Most of the time it's just like the case I described above.
If you're getting pp from A-B ranks then those maps are by definition hard. Care to link the maps you're talking about at least?
I'm not talking about one or two misses, seriously though. And I don't care about how 'good' a player is. My problem is just that according to these principles this system should be based on, these players definitely shouldn't rank that high in the overall pp ranking. In my opinion this can't be fair.Liiraye wrote:
If they do good but make a miss or two I really don't see how that makes them bad or unable to fc insanes. I have insanes with like 98-99% acc and a miss which gave pp, would you say I'm worse than those who got 96% fc?
If you're getting pp from A-B ranks then those maps are by definition hard. Care to link the maps you're talking about at least?
And maps I'm referring to are for example: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/209576?m=0 and https://osu.ppy.sh/b/221898?m=0 (cba to look for more).
I guess I just have to deal with this system for now.
Well right now the pp system is under heavy recalculations. I for example (I'm rank 3k~) got pp for getting rank 4k and even rank 12k(!) on a map (miss in the middle with dt)xBeater wrote:
I'm not talking about one or two misses, seriously though. And I don't care about how 'good' a player is. My problem is just that according to these principles this system should be based on, these players definitely shouldn't rank that high in the overall pp ranking. In my opinion this can't be fair.Liiraye wrote:
If they do good but make a miss or two I really don't see how that makes them bad or unable to fc insanes. I have insanes with like 98-99% acc and a miss which gave pp, would you say I'm worse than those who got 96% fc?
If you're getting pp from A-B ranks then those maps are by definition hard. Care to link the maps you're talking about at least?
And maps I'm referring to are for example: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/209576?m=0 and https://osu.ppy.sh/b/221898?m=0 (cba to look for more).
I guess I just have to deal with this system for now.
The combo system should be revamped as well imo. Since ppv2 apparently favors accuracy and speed above all, I don't see the point in using combo as the factor to determine the global rank in a specific map. If someone fc's with hidden and get like rank 400 while I miss in the middle, get rank 6k and only I get pp, the rankings doesn't matter, now do they?
Is this a step to turning mods into individual rankings, Tom? I heard peppy talk about that before.
So you consider an S on a hard diff better than an A on an insane diff?xBeater wrote:
I'm not talking about one or two misses, seriously though. And I don't care about how 'good' a player is. My problem is just that according to these principles this system should be based on, these players definitely shouldn't rank that high in the overall pp ranking. In my opinion this can't be fair.Liiraye wrote:
If they do good but make a miss or two I really don't see how that makes them bad or unable to fc insanes. I have insanes with like 98-99% acc and a miss which gave pp, would you say I'm worse than those who got 96% fc?
If you're getting pp from A-B ranks then those maps are by definition hard. Care to link the maps you're talking about at least?
And maps I'm referring to are for example: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/209576?m=0 and https://osu.ppy.sh/b/221898?m=0 (cba to look for more).
I guess I just have to deal with this system for now.
The system calculates difficulties within the beatmap, like big jumps, fast motions, streams and difficult patterns! << These are very common in insane difficulties, in hard or normals difficulties the maps are much much easier, hard diffs almost never have big jumps or streams so I don't see why they should give a lot of ranks?
tldr; would you be more impressed by a DT hard score, or an A insane score on a fairly difficult insane
I would be more impressed by a DT hard score.Could This Be wrote:
tldr; would you be more impressed by a DT hard score, or an A insane score on a fairly difficult insane
But whatever, I don't see a point in farther discussions about this. Guess I just have to take it as it is.
Topic Starter
The system is real-time in the sense of: When you get a score it directly gives pp.Defacer wrote:
Just a quick question.
Is the system currently real-time?I can only guess it's manually updated for the time being.
Actually since it's my first post in this thread, I am just gonna say that the system so far is doing really well and it's close to the best system osu! can have, thanks for all the work that's been done.I personally think HD scores in general are worth less than they should.Waiting for pattern difficulty calculation too.
There has been a little down-time in the system today (which led to Dalvoid's complaint) which has been resolved. In general, if a new score makes a map disappear from your best performance list or doesn't appear there, despite you thinking it should, then give it a day to appear before complaining, please - just to make sure.
Combo is still heavily weighted. Under the circumstances you described you would get far less pp than "someone".Liiraye wrote:
The combo system should be revamped as well imo. Since ppv2 apparently favors accuracy and speed above all, I don't see the point in using combo as the factor to determine the global rank in a specific map. If someone fc's with hidden and get like rank 400 while I miss in the middle, get rank 6k and only I get pp, the rankings doesn't matter, now do they?
xBeater you are just mad because you can't brag about your rank to your friend anymore, deal with it.
LOL, so true, I used to be rank 7k++ and have drop to 10k++.Well, cant brag anymore, but for some reason my tp is still high, 7.3k+ so well, time to brag about my tp then, while climbing back the pp ladderWishy wrote:
xBeater you are just mad because you can't brag about your rank to your friend anymore, deal with it.
By the way, tom, ummm...Is the ppv2 system now final? Or is there still tweaks and stuff?
Wow, I didn't expect such a retarded reply.Wishy wrote:
xBeater you are just mad because you can't brag about your rank to your friend anymore, deal with it.
And I never was someone who bragged about ranks. It's just that kind of inequity I feel. But that might only be my very own opinion.
As well, you seem to miss the point of my original post so keep out of this if you don't have any meaningful comments.
Topic Starter
I know it's not quite the same, but as long as you don't provide any examples of scores that are rated wrongly in your opinion, there is not much meaning to your complaint either. I don't understand what the "obvious" reasons are to not mention them, as you stated earlier.xBeater wrote:
Wow, I didn't expect such a retarded reply.Wishy wrote:
xBeater you are just mad because you can't brag about your rank to your friend anymore, deal with it.
And I never was someone who bragged about ranks. It's just that kind of inequity I feel. But that might only be my very own opinion.
As well, you seem to miss the point of my original post so keep out of this if you don't have any meaningful comments.
Anyway, since this system is far from final and will likely always keep changing slightly I hope it'll get more satisfying for you in the future.
Whatever, doesn't really matter anymore since you guys more or less proved that I was wrong.Tom94 wrote:
I know it's not quite the same, but as long as you don't provide any examples of scores that are rated wrongly in your opinion, there is not much meaning to your complaint either. I don't understand what the "obvious" reasons are to not mention them, as you stated earlier.
And thanks for your efforts. :3Tom94 wrote:
Anyway, since this system is far from final and will likely always keep changing slightly I hope it'll get more satisfying for you in the future.
The fact that you don't want to provide specific examples is because you are afraid that some of your "friends" might check out this thread and see how you are whining about something that makes you look inferior compared to them on the ranking system. I don't know if you brag or anything but your problem here is that you feel your e-penis got smaller.
Wishy wrote:
Nyzashi...
The argument you formed which made you say pp doesn't make sense to you was that your pp was decreasing after getting some FC on some random map, Tom told you it didn't and that what was dropping was your rank. After that you still say it doesn't make any sense without any argument.
Have you thought about the fact that you check your rank AFTER PLAYING A MAP AND GETTING A SCORE THAT COULD AFFECT YOUR RANK which means you will ONLY NOTICE CHANGES ON YOUR RANK AFTER PLAYING A MAP SINCE THAT'S WHEN YOU CHECK IT? Also, the system itself probably takes time to update stuff so it might happen that changes are shown suddenly after some specific period of time.
Oh gawd get that capslock away. It just makes you look like an aggressive scum.
Well, ya it still doesn't make any sense to me. And dude, I checked my score and all of this stuff several times. Can you please just use your brain? ;_;
It's fact that my pp increases when I'm playing old maps with a good accuracy and FC. That's okay so far. But everytime I play a new beatmap and FC it my ranks drop down. My pp doesn't change in any way. And that's confusing me. But it has absolutely nothing to do with my pp. I don't think that I need some arguments for that kinda stuff.
I am aggressive and the post is meant to be aggressive.
If your rank drops it means someone raised his pp and got over you, what doesn't make sense about that? It doesn't really happen when it matters or when you check it, the facts remain the same. The only way your rank can drop is if someone raises their pp from something lower compared to yours to something higher.
If your rank drops it means someone raised his pp and got over you, what doesn't make sense about that? It doesn't really happen when it matters or when you check it, the facts remain the same. The only way your rank can drop is if someone raises their pp from something lower compared to yours to something higher.
No, it's just that I don't want to insult my friends but still I want to point that kinda inequity out that I'm feeling.Wishy wrote:
The fact that you don't want to provide specific examples is because you are afraid that some of your "friends" might check out this thread and see how you are whining about something that makes you look inferior compared to them on the ranking system. I don't know if you brag or anything but your problem here is that you feel your e-penis got smaller.
But discussions with guys like you are always meaningless, I don't really have to get myself down to that level.
Please stop spamming this topic and let the people who actually have questions have their questions answered. I guess my question was just completely spammed out, so I guess I'll write a short version of it here (since half of it was answered already from buny's post), no need to flip back.
How does the HD mod affect pp - I know it's the easiest mod, so it's reasonable that it'd add very little (or none) pp for a score. My question is, just how small is this amount? Is it worth dropping a regular SS/99+% to a silver 98~%, or would that just decrease PP? I understand accuracy plays a huge role in the new system (I like it that way ), so would the 1% out-weigh the HD mod, since accuracy affects PP exponentially close to SS?
Some maps are more difficult with HD, but imo getting 96% with HD on almost any map is a walk in the park compared to a 99+%/SS no-mod (yes I know there are exceptions, hence the almost), and the SS is easily out-scored by a mile. I know pp is not score-based, I'm just trying to say if the HD turns out to give more score and less PP it's almost impossible to go back unless you match the no-mod's accuracy with HD, which usually turns out to be a pain.
My apologies if this has been answered already, you can point me to a page/quote if it has been.
How does the HD mod affect pp - I know it's the easiest mod, so it's reasonable that it'd add very little (or none) pp for a score. My question is, just how small is this amount? Is it worth dropping a regular SS/99+% to a silver 98~%, or would that just decrease PP? I understand accuracy plays a huge role in the new system (I like it that way
), so would the 1% out-weigh the HD mod, since accuracy affects PP exponentially close to SS?Some maps are more difficult with HD, but imo getting 96% with HD on almost any map is a walk in the park compared to a 99+%/SS no-mod (yes I know there are exceptions, hence the almost), and the SS is easily out-scored by a mile. I know pp is not score-based, I'm just trying to say if the HD turns out to give more score and less PP it's almost impossible to go back unless you match the no-mod's accuracy with HD, which usually turns out to be a pain.
My apologies if this has been answered already, you can point me to a page/quote if it has been.
If you had worded your example differently, it would be easy to mention your friends' names and no harm would be done.xBeater wrote:
No, it's just that I don't want to insult my friends but still I want to point that kinda inequity out that I'm feeling.
But discussions with guys like you are always meaningless, I don't really have to get myself down to that level.
Also if your "friends" do check out this thread, they'll no doubt guess that it's them you are talking about. It's not much of a secret and mentioning names isn't really going to put them in a negative light either, since you are avoiding the situation so strongly, it makes you look like the one out to do harm. All previous examples in this thread have not been "insulted," if anything they were justified. Please, provide real examples when making claims.
Fight elsewhere.
@Wishy just for you: FIGHT ELSEWHERE. consider this as a warning. And you know me. Take it serious.
Keep this topic clean or I make you incapable to say anything for a while.
@Wishy just for you: FIGHT ELSEWHERE. consider this as a warning. And you know me. Take it serious.
Keep this topic clean or I make you incapable to say anything for a while.
Yes Milord.