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Taiko Modding Academy

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Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Other languages: - Español -

~ WELCOME TO THE TAIKO MODDING ACADEMY! ~


I'm creating this thread in order to increase the number of modders in the community, with some tips or steps to follow in order to improve the current maps in the Pending section. Any player who knows some notions of this game mode is welcomed to participate! Also, if you have problems with modding or things you are unsure about, please do not hestitate to ask in this thread!

Weekly Hint: You can check a pattern by its sound, look and how it plays.
(If one of these factors doesn't apply, the pattern can be questioned. The more factors do not apply, the more questionable the pattern becomes and should be probably changed.)

Previous Hint:
  1. Always check by yourself if the notes in a map are snapped correctly. Use ctrl+a.
    (Sometimes the the notes are snapped 1ms wrong due to timing changes, which AiMod doesn't recognize.)
  2. Try to mod from mapper's perspective.
    (We want to help the mapper, not remap the map in our way we would like to see it.)
  3. When a beatmap has too many issues don't be afraid to suggest a remap!
    (In this way, you save the mapper's and your time. Provide also some points which helps remaking the map.)
  4. When modding, don't focus on finding issues where aren't any. Instead, give suggestions when the beatmap is overall fine.
    (Sometimes beatmaps are ready for rank. So it's okay to tell mapper the map is fine or give maybe additional personal suggestions.)

I've downloaded a Pending map. What can I do now?


STEP 1: Check the folder and the files inside it.

Remember to follow the General Ranking Criteria and the Taiko Ranking Criteria. AIMod in-game and external programs as AIBat are quite helpful to fulfill this step. There are some particularities to consider here:
  1. Help to add some info here!
STEP 2: Check out the metadata.

There are some external pages where you can check if the Artist, Title and so on are the correct ones. Some common and handful webpages are:
  1. vgmdb.net: For videogames and anime.
  2. Touhou Wiki: Specialised in Touhou songs.
  3. Vocaloid Wiki: Specialised in Vocaloid songs.
  4. RemyWiki: Specialised in Beatmania and Bemani songs.
  5. Digital Emergency: Specialised in Beatmania and Bemani songs.
  6. Help to add more info here!
STEP 3: Check if the timing is the correct one.

Put your headphones on, and show your special abilities to detect timing incongruities! Some help:
  1. Playing: When hitting a note, you can see if you hit it too soon or too late. It is a perfect comparison to the headphones.
  2. BPM Analyzers: External programs such as MixMeister help you to detect the correct BPM. Take into account that it'd only work with single-BPM songs, and it doesn't detect the correct offset.
  3. Timing Analyzer v0.32.4 by statementreply: Tool to detect an accurate BPM and Offset in most of the mp3 files. Only working for single-BPM songs!
  4. Charles445's advanced timing videotutorials: Where you can see how to time different types of songs according to their BPM.
  5. LKs' timing tutorial (Chinese):
  6. Help to add more info here!
STEP 4: Test the difficulties over and over to find some possible solutions to improve the map.

If you're already an experienced player, you won't have much problems to test any kind of maps. Moreover, you'd know already what is difficult or not, or what is fun or not. For any other players who aren't so experienced, or who want to learn to mod, there are some stuff to consider:
  1. Kantan: The easiest level of the mapset. It should use a quite simple rhythm without following too much the vocal or off-beats.
  2. Futsuu: Possible use of simple off-beats and more 1/2 patterns.
  3. Muzukashii: The perfect level for the average player. Longer 1/2 patterns and the introduction of simple 1/4 patterns shall fit here.
  4. Oni: The use of patterns become complex and denser, especially 1/4 patterns.
  5. Inner / Ura Oni: Similar to Oni, but it is more of a challenge for the players!
For more information you can check out the [Guide] Mapping Taiko Difficulties to make sure a difficulty has been mapped in a proper / reasonable way.


Also, the following questions are the ones that modders have to ask themselves, in order to improve the quality of the map:
  1. Does the difficulty spread make sense? Probably the most important one. Mapsets should be enjoyable for any kind of player! Think about possible solutions for a map-set which spread can be made better, like adding a new difficulty or refining the existing one.
  2. Does the label / diff-name of the difficulty fit? A difficulty should be labeled right. Making it easier than usual is possible, but not harder.
  3. Is the SV reasonable? It is important to keep the SV natural to the songs BPM.
  4. Does a pattern sound, play and look well? These three factors are important for a pattern. If one isn't ensured, the pattern can be possibly made better.
  5. Could a beat fit in this point / be avoidable? To create a good rhythm and avoid overmapping.
  6. Does the map have emphasized / unstressed parts? Stanza-technically this is really important. Check how the kiai, SV changes or simple breaks and gaps has been used in the map to avoid having patterns which might feel monotonically to the player.
  7. What was the mappers intention? Keep asking this yourself over and over again. You are the modder; not the mapper. So you should respect mappers intention and the way he made the map. Think about how he mapped(E.g.: beat-, vocal-, own pattern based).
  8. Help to add more info here!

Original thread: CTB Modding Academy by Deif
Yuzeyun
I think I might be in, but I'll always take the spot of the modder of the month *runs*

Finally glad that project came into something concrete. Let's hope people get into taiko modding even more.

Throwing some maps though:

Pending
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/131313 - DJ Mass MAD Izm* - BLACK.by X-Cross Fade
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/109525 - Envy - Paladin (guest difficulties, 3-diff spread)

WIP
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/138071 - TrickMasterMint - Pinkielith

Graveyard - might be resurrected if you guys want to mass-mod it.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/130568 - Rhett & Link - Epic Rap Battle: Nerd vs. Geek (I will need to cut out the end as it's only the outro or if anyone gives me a clean mp3)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/100935 - Umetora - Ifuudoudou (Will eventually get resurrected)
Deif
Good luck with the Academy, Ono-sama :_>
Dolphin
We have needed something like this for a while!

You can sign me up as a modder, I do plan on becoming more active again, I just need to get used to it hahaha.

As for Pending:
#ShamelessSelfPromotion

Stuff that could be added/fixed to the OP:
In Step 1:
  1. Checking the MP3 bitrate and BG dimensions by right clicking and going into "Properties". I always do this when I mod.
In Step 2:
  1. Digital Emergency Exit*, not specialized in Bemani/Beatmania. Just put "Specialized in BMS Songs", as BMS is not affiliated with Bemani in such way.
  2. Diverse Direct for Diverse System releases and various doujin/indie album releases.
  3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytus For Cytus song list in Title / Artist format
Modder of the month; I haven't been paying attention too much lately, but I nominate CoroQuetz as he doesn't nazi-mod but makes sure to give reason as to why you should make a change, and he respects the mapper's style. (idc if he's not on the list he's still good!)

Btw, if anyone has questions about BMS/Bemani songs/artists, feel free to hit me up as it is my specialty. (If someone is insecure which OST/Game/Event a song is from, what correct metadata would be etc, or if they want me to grab them a high-quality MP3 of a BMS as I am able to do that.)
neonat
The Vocaloid Wiki and Touhou Wiki are not very useful lol, there are better sites that give more information, such as http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki
Niko-nyan
well
if you want i will help this academy (free for mod every day if not busy)
and some maps that pending
Doraemon no Uta
Snow* - Chain (TV Size)
karterfreak
Feel free to include me here. Just keep in mind my schedule is probably going to be very busy the next couple of months so I really only have time for a couple of mods a month <_<

While I'm here, I'd suggest Masquerade as a map to be added to the current pending maps.
ZHSteven

Deif wrote:

Good luck with the Academy, Ono-sama :_>
mingmichael
mintong89
add me too :oops:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/138500

thanks~!
qoot8123
DakeDekaane
Hi, I should contribute with some mods, but while the inspiration comes in (and finish my pending requests), please add some of my pending maps >~<
Junichi Masuda - Battle! Champion (Sinnoh)
PSYCHIC LOVER - Samurai Sentai Shinkenger
LunaticP
sign up as modder
Nardoxyribonucleic
I may be able to join this.

Here are some of my taiko maps (pending)
u's - START:DASH!!
Infinite Stratos Cast - BEAUTIFUL SKY (TV Size)

Edit: omg am I not qualified to register as modder? :o
-xNaCLx-
ww..wanted to sign up as modder and

throw maps here
->Pet na Kanojotachi - Kimi ga Yume wo Tsuretekita (TV Size)
Nashmun
Signin' up as a modder aswell, since I'm starting to mod regularly.
Dainesl
I'm starting to become a modder again and I need something to invigorate me, this seems like a good idea to do so, I guess.

Pending map
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/155427 Amuro vs Killer - Mei
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
All maps and modders added.
Keep an eye on these maps for your own modding, so I can check what you've done.
MMzz
Does a pattern sound / play / look well?
Remove the word sound. We all know maps don't play good just because they sound good.

Anyways, good luck getting this going. :)

Maybe I can find people to mod my maps. :?
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Oh, you are right! What I ment was, does a pattern sound, play and look well? Of course, not always all three components are given, but in most cases it fits well I think. Thank you for mentioning it, MMzz! (Hm, let's see if I can find time to mod your map heh)

I will check soon the mods from the younger modders. Gezo, you do not count in. You are not new at all. lol
Yuzeyun
I'm in the list, I count !
Stop being rude to me Ono :(
Love
Could've swore I posted to be added to the list. But I guess it was removed or something.
Lost The Lights
I want to be added to the modders list. Also, some of my maps for the list:

Pending: Foo Fighters - Back And Forth
For Approval: Infected Mushroom - The Pretender
Yuzeyun

Love wrote:

Could've swore I posted to be added to the list. But I guess it was removed or something.
You haven't posted, so well
you can still join anytime you want lol
Coro
Add me as a modder I guess
I just finished recruit training so I'm more free now
Nwolf
Think I could do something this month, add me to list please

oh yeah, pending: Comp - Gensou no Satellite
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Gezo has send me a PM with all mods I need to consider from january (thanks!).
Give me some time to check these. I will update the OP soon.
Kyouren
Hai, pending now~^^~

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/146602 - Hatsuki Yura - Nightmare -Overture-
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/112733 - Baek ji-young - After a Long Time
Yuzeyun
half of march, still no feedback recieved :roll:
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Well, first I didn't planed to do it due to exam stuff. Then I did so. And now exam is hitting me. Haha...
When everything is over, I might be much more active again.
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
~Update~


Replaced the "Modder of the Month" with "Weekly Hint".
→ Placing every week a new modding-hint which I gave from time to time some other modders before. In case you feel unsure about one, post it in this thread!
→→ All hints from the past will be stored together.

Updated map list. Only Pending maps are remaining.

Feel free to post any question you have about modding into this thread! That's what the TMA stands for as well. You are also allowed to answer other peoples question!
Yuzeyun
Can you make the hint bigger ?
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Weekly hint updated.
Remember: You are always allowed to ask your questions in this thread.
Charles445

OnosakiHito wrote:

Weekly hint updated.
Telling someone straight up to remap is extremely demotivating and rude.
Remapping is a decision the mapper needs to make themselves.
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Don't know how you guys do it in osu, but in Taiko we do it in an polite way with a lot of evidences. At the end, we always let the decision to the mapper. In my case, it rather motivated me when lepidopodus told me 4 years ago to remap something by considering what could be improved in the remap. I had the same impression from people who got such suggestion from me as well.

Again, no idea how you guys explain to mappers in osu to remap something, but in Taiko we never had such problems at all.
And in my opinion this helps a lot more than having a 30cm long mod post which no one wants really to read or which is at least really tiring to read, sorry. lol

Maybe I should rewrite it, so people don't misunderstand it.
LunaticP
Remap in taiko is easier than remap in other mode

And taiko map should be checked as a whole, if the whole flow or the block is totally messy remap is the only way
Stefan

LunaticP wrote:

Remap in taiko is easier than remap in other mode
I think it's not really mode-related. Every mode requires the knownledge and being as perfect as possible. Also the amount of time is practicually the same.

The mapper itself should be aware how does his map looks like. If he see that the has a lot of issue which needs to be fixed or a remap require then he really should do that and should not stay with arguments like "old style" or "being too lazy". Also the excuse "to do it better with the next maps" shouldn't be accepted. imo it depends how many people suggest to remap the Difficulty or even the Mapset. if one does then this may goes in the own taste and opinion but I think there is something wrong if 6, 7, 8 or more do that. And a lot of issues are obvious and don't need a long talk about why they're bad and need to be changed.

OnosakiHito wrote:

And in my opinion this helps a lot more than having a 30cm long mod post which no one wants really to read or which is at least really tiring to read, sorry. lol
this. If you already suggest sooooo much in a Difficulty or Mapset, and let us say it's a TV Size Map.. then making huge Mod posts aren't really helpful since they completely change the origin map to something.. different which isn't really the point in mapping. Then it's better to suggest the person to remap the difficulties or Mapset by his own purpose.
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Updated weekly hint with a latency of 1 week. =D
Asagi Mutsuki
y no new weekly hint ;w;
LunaticP
why do you remember this post
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Updated weekly hint. Due to exams I couldn't take care of it. Now it should be fine.
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Now it's the monthly hint! lol
Added new hint.

Remember: You guys may ask modding related quetsions here! If you have problems with modding or things you are unsure about, please do not hestitate to ask in this thread!
PatZar
can i join? Oh ok it's dead already
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
Just wanted to mention that everyone can post either modding related questions or questions about their map in this thread.
I'm getting pretty often asked in IRC and some questions might be interesting for everyone. So don't hestitate to add your questions here!


Once I can provide more time, I will see to have some update in this project.
LunaticP
where is the yearly hints for year 2014
Topic Starter
OnosakiHito
I would like to mention once again, that everyone is allowed to post modding related questions or questions about their own maps. Here you are able to talk with all users about certain problems you might encounter when mapping or modding and find together possible solutions. It helps everyone who might have the same problems.
OzzyOzrock
this is the first time i see this thread... wtf
Endaris
Taiko mapping is so hard though, I tried it out of curiosity and asked for Raiden's opinion(poor Raiden) on my first steps and was quickly discouraged.
What do you think, how good do you have to get at Taiko as a player before you can judge map quality from a mapper-perspective?
roufou

Endaris wrote:

Taiko mapping is so hard though, I tried it out of curiosity and asked for Raiden's opinion(poor Raiden) on my first steps and was quickly discouraged.
What do you think, how good do you have to get at Taiko as a player before you can judge map quality from a mapper-perspective?
depends, you can probably be an "awful" player and be an amazing mapper and you can be like rank 50 and be a pretty bad mapper.

generally though rank 2k is a fine rank for getting decent at mapping. Honestly being a good player doesn't help that much besides telling what plays well and what is fun though, and you can probably just not play at all and still be an alright mapper providing you get good feedback and learn what is good and what is "bad".

I think that answers the question pretty well, ask further if it's still unclear.
Raiden
words
I was planning on making a separate thread for this, but I suppose I can post in here to avoid flooding.

So, after some weeks of lingering in forums, stalking people in general, and seeing the activity in #taiko in-game, I have noticed a slight increase in the amount of modders we have (maybe because of TNA?). Now, while I am truly glad that this is happening (slight increase of modders which would turn the modders/mappers fraction closer to 1), I am also noticing that the quality of mods is just in a very deplorable standstill (or even getting worse). Also, the BN amount we have is also ridiculously low because of this. What's the problem? Simple. People still complain on not getting their maps ranked, while they do close to nothing to help this (I remember being like this back then before I started modding and learned my lesson), which is exactly why I'm posting this.

I must quote some great people in here (reference: t/237620/start=165)

_Gezo_ wrote:

I'll just say this:

Less complaining. More modding.
case closed.

OnosakiHito wrote:

As solution there is not much to say but that people should start mod more by their own and maybe become BNs. Yes, we can try enfaster progress a bit by helping new modders or open diverse threads and guides. But at the end the core solution is clear: People must be more active in modding. And we all know that this isn't one of our strenghts in Taiko. lol

MMzz wrote:

Mapping and modding go hand in hand. You have to do both to survive here as a mapper. (For any game mode)
BN are not obligated to mod your map at all. If they say they will mod your map and then don't, yeah that sucks, but it happens. Like I said, BN have no obligation to mod YOUR MAP. They can mod whatever they want. (Just like non-bn can)

Its been this way for 5+ years. Its nothing new. Its nothing we haven't heard before. Start modding to help improve the situation you think is terrible, or shut up.
That said, it would be somewhat hypocritical for me to say this (because I was literally like that back then), but they are completely right.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That topic covered, let's talk about the standstill on modding quantity/quality and the severe lack of Taiko BNs.

I believe this is mostly due to the outstanding laziness of our community, paired with I'm gonna get slapped but I don't care the somewhat selfish attitude of many mappers (myself included). "I just want my map ranked but I don't want to mod anything" basically. While it is inherent to human nature, I believe there should be a possible way to fix this selfishness and laziness while also ending the modding quality/lack of BNs standstill we are currently experiencing. TNA was (in my honest opinion) a nice alternative to go with while we try to find another, more permanent alternative.

I currently lack of innovative ideas, but I do have some generic ideas which would work theoretically.

  1. PROBLEM: lack of active modding (both quantity and quality)
    PROVISIONAL SOLUTION: force people to mod if they want their maps ranked (TNA)
    CONSEQUENCES: rise on the quantity of modding, paired with a standstill OR decrease of modding quality (a.k.a. encourages shitmodding just to enter the queue)
    MY GENERIC IDEA: higher quality mods (upon TNA members' discretion) will have HIGHER CHANCES of getting their map accepted, while total lazy modding (one line mods with a "change d" for example) have lower chances of being accepted.
  2. PROBLEM: lack of Taiko BNs (specially outside TNA)
    PROVISIONAL SOLUTION: ???????
    CONSEQUENCES: people opt for the BNs outside TNA (tasuke and I) so they don't need to mod and only go for TNA when they remember having modded something less than 3 weeks ago || if one of the BNs outside TNA goes inactive for whatever reasons (me in this case), the other becomes virtually useless, as one BN alone can't rank a map. This could be fixed by QATs, since TNA members are not allowed to take requests outside of it.
    The fact that there are BNs outside TNA means that people will mostly look for us to avoid modding before opting to use TNA when we reject them. This, of course, heavily increases the non-TNA BNs' workload (not in my case since I reject almost every request)
    MY GENERIC IDEA: the same as first problem. Encourage higher quality modding by offering them higher rewards. Plus, people learning to do higher quality mods will have also higher chances of *drumrolls*......................... BECOMING BN!!! TWO BIRDS ONE STONE!!!
Now, with all this huge wall of text you'd expect me to give you some kind of advice to improve your modding right? Well, don't be disappointed, I do!

  1. If you're a starter modder: read Ranking Criteria and Appropiate Gameplay Elements here: https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Difficulty_appr ... _Game_Mode and https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Taiko_Ranking_Criteria || It's a very nice way of starting on your modding process. Mod firstly objectively (since you will not understand higher level concepts such as flow, playability, etc.) using ranking criteria, then as you advance in your modding career, start working on these subjective elements!
  2. If you have been modding for a while but still not get the grasp of it: this is specially to those with a kudosu count of 50-80~ who still mod like in their beginnings (which is understandable at some extent). My advice is really, REALLY simple: give a reason on why the mapper should consider changing what you said. If you merely say "d", the mapper (from my point of view), cannot really understand your intentions, and will also think that you're a lazy ass, leading many of the times to many rejections even if the changes would at some point make the map better overall.
  3. If you're an experienced and high quality modder: Keep up the good work!! And also it'd be nice if you could give some advice to newer modders!! We need more people like you!! BECOME BN OR I'LL KILL YOU
  4. If you're a QAT: try to be nice in your DQ posts at all times, remember that there were 2/3 BNs that agreed on the mapping style of the mapper. Give an objective reason for disqualify and explain things in a way that the mapper understands them (since many times a person who doesn't speak English fluently will be heavily discouraged because they don't understand a single word). This would be for all modes but since I'm here I'll direct it toward Taiko QATs :P

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't remember having posted such wall of text ever lol

*flies away*
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