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[Proposal/Discussion] MP3 Rules

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Esutarosa
+1 agree
Seulgi
+1 owo
bokeru
+1 then
Crisper
+1 nice
dPeace
+1
Ephemeral

Naxess wrote:

New rules wrote:

  1. The audio file of a beatmap must...
    1. ...use the .mp3 or .ogg file format.
    2. ...have an average bit rate no greater than 192 kbps.
    3. ...have an average bit rate no lower than 128 kbps, if such a source exists, otherwise use the highest quality available.
    4. ...not be encoded upwards from a lower bitrate.
I am fine with this with the sole addition of:

Addition wrote:

  1. The audio file of a beatmap must...
    1. ...use the .mp3 or .ogg file format.
    2. ...be of acceptable listening quality without any basic audio enhancements applied (no bass boosting, excessive amplification)
    3. ...have an average bit rate no greater than 192 kbps.
    4. ...have an average bit rate no lower than 128 kbps, if such a source exists, otherwise use the highest quality available.
    5. ...not be encoded upwards from a lower bitrate.
This doesn't take us very far from what already exists (outside of wording it nominally better, good call there) but does importantly outline the "acceptable quality" requirement for audio, which absolutely needs to stay.

I don't want to see people using crusty rips at the correct bitrates when they're mangled to all heck and arguing with other people over better audio when what they've got is technically correct but actually objectively worse, which will happen.
Topic Starter
AJT
think it would be better to contextualise the 2nd bullet point in terms of you applying those enhancements yourself rather than them having been done so by the artist, so it doesn't potentially confuse people into lower volume on mp3s that are intentionally "bass boosted" or amplified for effect (e.g. some hyperpop songs, some hardcore artists, etc.)

i also feel iffy about the word "acceptable" for reasons noffy touched upon before; if the intention was to stipulate the two things in brackets as the requirements for such then could reword "without any" to make it sound like it's not saying "acceptable quality + these things", or if it's actually saying that then we're back at "acceptable" being quite vague

although it's better than what currently exists since whilst it's still there, the bitrate stipulations are outlined better
Kite
Agree that the term acceptable can be elaborated more.
To me acceptable audio pretty much means: clear sounds (no muffled or "crusty" quality like in Ephemerals earlier example), no clipping, decent volume (shouldn't require to adjust your system settings in order to get a good listening experience compared to other song audio files)

Maybe we can work out a more detailed wording as a replacement here
UberFazz
forgot the hs part of the original rule

Updated wrote:

  1. The audio file of a beatmap must...
    1. ...use the .mp3 or .ogg file format.
    2. ...be of acceptable listening quality while avoiding basic audio enhancements such as bass boosting or excessive amplification, unless purposely done by the artist. This applies to hitsound files as well.
    3. ...have an average bit rate no greater than 192 kbps.
    4. ...have an average bit rate no lower than 128 kbps, if such a source exists. Otherwise, use the highest quality available.
    5. ...not be encoded upwards from a lower bitrate.
also slightly reworded eph's addition (assuming i understood it correctly). i understand the problems with using terms like "acceptable" but i also cant think of a scenario where it could cause issues
+ made tiny grammar fix
Naxess
The reason I removed the "reasonable quality" stuff is that it's way too vague to be in a rule. It also strayed from only being about the song's audio to also hitsounds, and so would probably be best as a separate criterion if anything.

How about this:

New rule wrote:

  1. The audio file of a beatmap must...
    1. ...use the .mp3 or .ogg file format.
    2. ...have an average bit rate no greater than 192 kbps.
    3. ...have an average bit rate no lower than 128 kbps, if such a source exists. Otherwise, use the highest quality available.
    4. ...not be encoded upwards from a lower bitrate.

New guideline wrote:

  1. The audio file and hitsound files of a beatmap should not feature any audible and unwarranted sound distortions, like clipping, muffling, or crackling that is obviously not intended by the artist. Simply listen to the audio for this and avoid relying on spectrograms or waveforms.
This also spells out that "reasonable quality" means to actually just listen to determine if it sounds ok.

edit: slightly less tutorial-like
Topic Starter
AJT
^ i'm fine with this, perhaps the wording of the guideline could be tweaked so it sounds less... tutorial-like? idk, but yea in terms of content i think this is where we should be
Burak
I agree with Naxess' suggestion and I tried to simplify a little bit so it doesn't sound too nerdy/tutorial-like as ajt mentioned:

New guideline wrote:

  1. The audio file and hitsound files of a beatmap should not feature any audible and unwarranted sound distortions, like clipping, muffling, or crackling that is not intended by the artist. Listen to the audio instead of just relying on software to detect these kind of issues.
edit: removed "obviously" from the first sentence too its not needed
AnimeStyle

Burak wrote:

I agree with Naxess' suggestion and I tried to simplify a little bit so it doesn't sound too nerdy/tutorial-like as ajt mentioned:

New guideline wrote:

  1. The audio file and hitsound files of a beatmap should not feature any audible and unwarranted sound distortions, like clipping, muffling, or crackling that is not intended by the artist. Listen to the audio instead of just relying on software to detect these kind of issues.
edit: removed "obviously" from the first sentence too its not needed
Don't think that whole paragraph on listening to the audio is needed.
Aside from that it's gucci
Topic Starter
AJT

Naxess wrote:

community/forums/posts/8563364
Redrafted slightly, thoughts?

New rule wrote:

  1. The audio file of a beatmap must...
    1. ...use the .mp3 or .ogg file format.
    2. ...have an average bit rate no greater than 192 kbps.
    3. ...have an average bit rate no lower than 128 kbps, if such a source exists. Otherwise, use the highest quality available.
    4. ...not be encoded upwards from a lower bitrate.

New guideline wrote:

  1. The audio file and hitsound files of a beatmap should not feature any audible and unwarranted sound distortions, like clipping, muffling, or crackling that is [clearly/obviously] not intended by the artist. This is best determined by listening to the audio, rather than using software on its own.
With regards to the adjective in brackets being superfluous or not, I think it could help in terms of indicating that you should just use common sense here rather than going on some CIA research quest to determine what was intentional in every file, although I don't think it makes much of a difference
Apo11o
Latest iteration is S-tier. It is amazing. +1
Naxess

AJT wrote:

Redrafted slightly, thoughts?
Agree with the [clearly/obviously] stuff, I think that helps to not give people the wrong idea about how strict that part of the rule is.

Can reword slightly in the PR if needed. Let's give this another 24h to see if there's anything we missed before proceeding.
Burak
seems good to me here, i would love to see this passes in the current state
SuzumeAyase
+1 agree owo
Topic Starter
AJT
OK I'll PR at lunch
edit: Naxess saved me from githubbing again
Naxess
UberFazz
merged!
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