Why not pretend that you're learning osu from scratch and check out the James Training?

Purple wrote:

Also, I find it helpful leaving the visual settings to their default.

I agree. It makes the objects harder to see which is kind of equal to higher AR.

Play AR9 maps

Tshemmp wrote:

BGs can make the objects harder to see

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/77544

AR12

*chuckles*

Too many people have this problem because they skip the most important step: reading patterns.
AR10 and compressed DT's whittle this skill down to the point it is not even needed, you follow whatever just appeared on screen and don't have to, or have the time to... think twice.

Play EZ mod for a while, but it's not going to save you completely because it drops the AR far below AR7. You still need to learn AR 7,8,9.
You're just gonna have to play these approach rates... i.e. forgo using HR for a bit.

People who can play all AR's have played all AR's. If you can play low AR's before learning AR10, and have only played AR10 since, you don't lose the ability, you just don't.
People who claim they lost the ability, never actually had it.

*Basic rant which I tell speed players they are digging a very deep grave, the longer you dig this one the further you have to climb back out BECAUSE YOU GET BORED FAST. Going back to the basics is the most boring task ever.

If you wanna read AR9, play AR9. If you wanna read AR8, play AR8. There's no global skill for reading AR except following the music, which isn't reading, it's listening.

i am confused, how did people skip ar 9 and go straight to 10 it seem like going from normal to insane... just you cant

also if ar 10 is faster how can someone not read a slower map that just doesnt even make sense




more related to the topic:
about a week ago i downloaded an ar 9 practice map and I could do it with 40% on halftime, I can now get 40% without the halftime mod my issue isnt reading the maps, thats actually really easy for me to do; I just need to force my cursor to go to the right spots

RaneFire wrote:

*chuckles*

Too many people have this problem because they skip the most important step: reading patterns.
AR10 and compressed DT's whittle this skill down to the point it is not even needed, you follow whatever just appeared on screen and don't have to, or have the time to... think twice.

Play EZ mod for a while, but it's not going to save you completely because it drops the AR far below AR7. You still need to learn AR 7,8,9.
You're just gonna have to play these approach rates... i.e. forgo using HR for a bit.

People who can play all AR's have played all AR's. If you can play low AR's before learning AR10, and have only played AR10 since, you don't lose the ability, you just don't.
People who claim they lost the ability, never actually had it.

*Basic rant which I tell speed players they are digging a very deep grave, the longer you dig this one the further you have to climb back out BECAUSE YOU GET BORED FAST. Going back to the basics is the most boring task ever.

If you wanna read AR9, play AR9. If you wanna read AR8, play AR8. There's no global skill for reading AR except following the music, which isn't reading, it's listening.

The funny thing is that the game rewards players who start to develop these type of bad habits through the HR mod. I know some people who struggle with AR9 myself and I find it laughable that they actually NEED HR in order to full combo or do well on a map. Sure, HR makes the circle size and timing window a bit smaller but to for many people it's worth it to make those small sacrifices in order to get the HUGE benefits they gain of the increased AR that makes them comfortable.

This is also the same reason why I HATE the HR rock because it rewards players who couldn't have played the map without it. To rid the whole whack-a-mole mentality of playing osu that more and more people are getting sucked into, either AR needs to be user-definable or lower-AR's need to be rewarded just as equally as higher-AR's.

Da Holy One wrote:

i am confused, how did people skip ar 9 and go straight to 10 it seem like going from normal to insane... just you cant

also if ar 10 is faster how can someone not read a slower map that just doesnt even make sense

It totally makes sense because lower AR -> more circles on the screen -> harder to read. When people learn the game from low ARs, they usually play low BPM maps which don't require much reading, also they play it BAD (not for newbie, but common standards) and progress fast to higher ARs without enough foundation. So every progressing player must go back every now and then to strengthen weak sides.

enik wrote:

Da Holy One wrote:

i am confused, how did people skip ar 9 and go straight to 10 it seem like going from normal to insane... just you cant

also if ar 10 is faster how can someone not read a slower map that just doesnt even make sense

It totally makes sense because lower AR -> more circles on the screen -> harder to read. When people learn the game from low ARs, they usually play low BPM maps which don't require much reading, also they play it BAD (not for newbie, but common standards) and progress fast to higher ARs without enough foundation. So every progressing player must go back every now and then to strengthen weak sides.

Imo when you're learning the game it doesn't really count, everything about your gameplay was changing constantly, it slows down drastically once you reach a certain "point" where you have essentially learned how to play the game - then it just becomes about refining such skills and your speed and consistency are supposed to build up from there

The issue is that some people skipped the refining process. They just kept trying to learn the hardest stuff, essentially never stopping learning. No major attention to accuracy, fingering and following patterns with your cursor precisely (including snapping) were ever done. It was just a race.
Paying attention to each of those aspects at different AR's is what reading AR actually is.

They stopped at AR10 to start refining their skills, and never did any refining at other AR's, this is the dilemma.

Once you take a step down the dark path that is HR, you gotta keep pushing...
all the way to AR12.

Golfdinger wrote:

Once you take a step down the dark path that is HR, you gotta keep pushing...
all the way to AR12.

You can't play AR12. The highest AR you can actually play is 11.
Unless you storyboard it but that doesn't count.

GoldenWolf wrote:

Golfdinger wrote:

Once you take a step down the dark path that is HR, you gotta keep pushing...
all the way to AR12.

You can't play AR12. The highest AR you can actually play is 11.
Unless you storyboard it but that doesn't count.

Thought we back then in 2013.

Da Holy One wrote:

i am confused, how did people skip ar 9 and go straight to 10 it seem like going from normal to insane... just you cant

also if ar 10 is faster how can someone not read a slower map that just doesnt even make senses

Well, let me explain it a bit this way.

Approach Rate 10 has an MS value of 450. That means it takes 450 milliseconds for the precise activation frame to appear after the circle pops onto your screen. The average reflex time of a human for visual cues is a little over 200ms. So let's say you are really focused on playing HD/HR at AR10. Your reaction time to circles appearing on screen is likely to be right at about 200ms. This gives you 250ms to get to the circle and press your activation key (tap, X, click, whatever button you use). Human motor reflex (how long it takes for your hand to react to seeing the circle and move the pen/mouse) also takes about 200ms. Once you put the two reflex timings together, they tend to add up nicely to around 400-450, which is why AR10 feels so smooth and natural. AR10.33 is right at 400ms, so if you are feeling really in-tune with your focus, this will also flow quite naturally (very common for DT players, given that AR9 maps are AR10.33 with DT). Anything under 400ms (AR10.87 and AR11), starts to get more difficult again, as reflexes tend to struggle to keep up and mental exhaustion starts to kick in. This is why I find HR so very easy to read, is because it allows me to use a very relaxed, controlled reflex to play the map, and honestly requires almost zero reading. Once you play enough patterns in osu, and you play for long enough, your fingers start to go autopilot, and you can focus 100% on your accuracy.

Things under AR10 require two things once you have become adjusted to the nature of AR10. They require that you *visually* read the map differently, and they require you to look at smaller sections of the screen at one time. When you play AR10, you can look in general areas of the screen without ever directly looking at a note, and that will absolutely provide you with enough information. With lower ARs, you have to try and tune out other things that are going on in the map. Otherwise, your brain will go on information overload like mine, and reading will become a lot harder. This is where reading things like colors, numbers, and approach circles come in handy. Actually reading a map is not that easy, and I am no good at it. There are other players who could offer your way more advice on how to learn and practice (other than the usual "lol just play huehue"), so I will not try to teach something that I do not know.

I am not going to get into the audio aspect of reading, because my post is focused on only visual reading and why visual reading is the way it is in terms of how the body works

Why spend hours trying to find lower AR maps when you can simply go into edit and change the AR of maps you already like?

And honestly it is laughable that some people find AR9 too slow. This is what you get for jumping the wannabe pro train too fast, but if you like to play high AR then go for it.

Learn to interpret rhythms in the music and focus more on the ordering of objects. If you can react to AR10, then you can tot up the ordering of numbers and their followpoints on the fly.

One thing that really annoys me is that some people try to discourage patterns which are confusing rhythmically, solely because so many of these so-called "pro players" have locked themselves into a mentality of following basic rhythms. To me, it seems like their interpretation of the game boils down to reacting to each object as it comes, instead of reacting to the rhythms themselves if that makes a modicum of sense. As a result, we get such maps as 'Mowgli's Road,' 'Hot Air Balloon' and 'The Writer' with low ratings, simply because it seems that players hate to be reminded that they suck at interpreting different rhythms and meters.

That's just my take, but this thread has enough in it to indicate that, as Benguin said, players reduce themselves to a whack-a-mole mentality. That isn't what a rhythm game's about.

D33d wrote:

Learn to interpret rhythms in the music and focus more on the ordering of objects. If you can react to AR10, then you can tot up the ordering of numbers and their followpoints on the fly.

One thing that really annoys me is that some people try to discourage patterns which are confusing rhythmically, solely because so many of these so-called "pro players" have locked themselves into a mentality of following basic rhythms. To me, it seems like their interpretation of the game boils down to reacting to each object as it comes, instead of reacting to the rhythms themselves if that makes a modicum of sense. As a result, we get such maps as 'Mowgli's Road,' 'Hot Air Balloon' and 'The Writer' with low ratings, simply because it seems that players hate to be reminded that they suck at interpreting different rhythms and meters.

That's just my take, but this thread has enough in it to indicate that, as Benguin said, players reduce themselves to a whack-a-mole mentality. That isn't what a rhythm game's about.

Hmm. I do see what you mean, but I really don't think the problem (that I'm having anyways) has much to do with misinterpreting the rhythm of patterns and combos (although I can see it being a problem for other players that have a somewhat similar problem with AR9).
Rather, going towards what winber said about snapping to the notes, that's what I think I'm having trouble with. So I'm not really sure how to go around practicing and improving snapping ability.

winber1 wrote:

A possibility could be to just practice snapping to notes instead of relying on curvey movements and high AR.

This.

Just take one of your AR10 songs that you like. Open edit and change the AR of the song to 9 or less. You will be doing the same exact movements, but you will need to rely on your reading abilities instead of your reactions.

Edit: AR7 for ~180 maps and AR8 for > 200 seems like a good way to practice.

Zakdawg wrote:

Why spend hours trying to find lower AR maps when you can simply go into edit and change the AR of maps you already like?

And honestly it is laughable that some people find AR9 too slow. This is what you get for jumping the wannabe pro train too fast, but if you like to play high AR then go for it.

I do exactly that. I do it quite often, too. I enjoy playing AR10, and don't care so much about rank a lot of the time. Everyone once in awhile I will look to challenge someone's score on HD/HR, but usually I just want to play maps the way I want to play them. I happily go in and edit to AR10 on a lot of unranked maps (most usually come with an AR10 version anyways), and even sometimes on approved maps. I do suck at reading and I am okay with that.

Zakdawg wrote:

Edit: AR7 for ~180 maps and AR8 for > 200 seems like a good way to practice.

Thanks for this, I'll try it out. ^^

Or go play simplistiC's masterpiece.

lolcubes wrote:

Or go play simplistiC's masterpiece.

yes yes, simplistiC's maps are best to train to snap, i swear, after BoA - Eien, I became so much better at that.

but to Op, in my experience, play more hards and try to 98 acc it. most good maps take a bit of skill to fc them with that high of acc, and it makes your cursor movement so much better.

edit; also, Suzully maps are good too. try it. especially the 200 bpm ones

I think I'm getting there provided the practice. Thanks for bits of advice. However, the only thing I do struggle with is aiming on higher BPM's now. I can never be precise and snap to the notes at all. So I'm not quite sure how to actually train that aspect. :s Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Practice snapping to the notes at high BPMs.

Count the numbers in the combo's is the secret trick of reading!

but works better on low AR, AR9 is high too, AR8 is normal and under 8 is low.

[KOR]ArtRaid wrote:

Count the numbers

pls no

­

Play AR5~7 for a while, then play the AR9 map you wanted to play.
Suddenly everything is fast!

Defacer wrote:

Honestly, the only thing laughable here is that YOU in particular can't play AR10 AND you are still confident about making jokes on people who actually managed to learn AR10.

But once he learn it he will be able to play both ARs equally well. And he won't skip it, because this is his next learning step which he just hasn't learned yet. This also applies to streaming and other things outside of osu: missed steps in the learning process leads to unprofessionalism.

matryoshka

Defacer wrote:

Honestly, the only thing laughable here is that YOU in particular can't play AR10 AND you are still confident about making jokes on people who actually managed to learn AR10.

Wowwowwow. What's with the personal attacks? As a matter of fact i can play AR10... ****

Defacer wrote:

Honestly, the only thing laughable here is that YOU in particular can't play AR10 AND you are still confident about making jokes on people who actually managed to learn AR10.

you realize the exact same thing can be said for AR9

Honestly, the only thing laughable here is that YOU in particular can't play AR9 AND you are still confident about making jokes on people who actually managed to learn AR9.

your argument is completely invalid.

I mean honestly there's no reason to rage at him. it's half your fault not learning AR9. Realize what the problem is and accept it as it is. I have many things that I suck at in osu, though it doesn't mean I'm going to get mad at people who can do those things, and even say they can do those things.

Defacer wrote:

Zakdawg wrote:

Why spend hours trying to find lower AR maps when you can simply go into edit and change the AR of maps you already like?

And honestly it is laughable that some people find AR9 too slow. This is what you get for jumping the wannabe pro train too fast, but if you like to play high AR then go for it.

Honestly, the only thing laughable here is that YOU in particular can't play AR10 AND you are still confident about making jokes on people who actually managed to learn AR10.

As a player who has the EXACT same problem with AR9, I can give a bit of info.After raging so many times that I do unexplainable misses on the recent kickass maps that were ranked, watching my replays countless times to understand where those random misses come from, even tho I fc the map on AR10(when modified) with no problem at all, I found that the problem is somewhere between snapping,the fact that I don't look at circles individually but the screen in general, and having reflexes that are suitable for >ar10.I've noticed myself rushing for a circle and almost reaching it, suddenly changing the direction, just because my reflexes are already refined for ar10 and above, I CAN'T STAND watching circles more than I can afford, for me, the moment I see a circle, I have to click it.However playing with HD and BG really helps, and in general if you play AR9 for let's say an hour, you become a bit better BUT, I personally, can never wash away that mental feeling that I am holding back and that I am dulling my actual inner reflexes.

Easy solution: Get good at anticipating rhythms and reading approach circles.

As a person who only stares at an area to play, instead of caring about snapping or following individual notes, all I can say is that such play style is viable on any AR. All that you need is training.

Yes I suck on AR10, but only because I don't play it often. It's not hard to learn through repetition. If you are finding AR9 too low, you must be playing some really insanely packed map which is probably above your skill level to FC anyway, or you are just bad because you skipped lower AR playing and just jumped into the really insane maps from the get-go.