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[proposal - std] make 4 stacks in standard rhythm a nono guideline

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Topic Starter
0gg
for extra diffs and easier, and as a guideline

in standard rhythm, stacks of 4 notes in a 1/4 timing shouldn't be permitted without highly explicit backing in the music.


making this cus i played a map with 4 stacks and it's really uncomfortable and annoying
THAT_otaku
????? That doesn't necessarily mean it's uncomfortable for everyone, or in every case. Not entirely sure what's the problem either, a stacked 4 note burst shouldn't be allowed?

Please don't make RC proposals because you don't like something in a single map, or any amount for that matter. From what I understand proposals are meant to help improve the quality of ranked maps for everyone, not your personal dissatisfaction with "a map you played".
lewski
nahh quads are poggers
aiq

lewski wrote:

nahh quads are poggers
this
WitherMite
"I cant play it therefore its bad"
Topic Starter
0gg

WitherMite wrote:

"I cant play it therefore its bad"
exactly
WitherMite

0gg wrote:

WitherMite wrote:

"I cant play it therefore its bad"
exactly
?
caps

0gg wrote:

make 4 stacks in standard rhythm a nono guideline
THAT_otaku

caps wrote:

0gg wrote:

make 4 stacks in standard rhythm a nono guideline
:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:

Yes perfect this should be pushed to the RC right away. Much better representation of the song and adds a new aspect of difficulty to streams/bursts.





lol
Dialect
oh god i actually have to make good streams instead of being lazy and just stacking the objects
NeonLick
I somewhat agree with topic starter, but not for difficulty reason.

Why not make proper bursts\short streams instead of lazy stacking?

Yes, there's cases where stacks make sense, but most of the time stacks placed on top of music elements that designed to rise tension and move music forward, like drum fills, guitar\piano\synth licks, or vocal runs. In that case stacks contradict music intent to move by forcing player stand in place. Short streams would be better choice.
Another case: when stacks placed in 1\8 rhythm that uses 1\16 notes to make music feel faster. In that case stacks break natural music flow for no valid reason, while spaced circles would emphasize it.
And third case: separated double stacks on top of steady 1\8 rhythm. I just can't justify this. It's pure overmapping, and overmapping usually means that mapper ignores music.

So guideline would make sense to ensure that stacks have proper support from a song.
WitherMite

NeonLick wrote:

I somewhat agree with topic starter, but not for difficulty reason.

Why not make proper bursts\short streams instead of lazy stacking?

Yes, there's cases where stacks make sense, but most of the time stacks placed on top of music elements that designed to rise tension and move music forward, like drum fills, guitar\piano\synth licks, or vocal runs. In that case stacks contradict music intent to move by forcing player stand in place. Short streams would be better choice.
Another case: when stacks placed in 1\8 rhythm that uses 1\16 notes to make music feel faster. In that case stacks break natural music flow for no valid reason, while spaced circles would emphasize it.
And third case: separated double stacks on top of steady 1\8 rhythm. I just can't justify this. It's pure overmapping, and overmapping usually means that mapper ignores music.

So guideline would make sense to ensure that stacks have proper support from a song.
I was under the assumption that guidelines aren't there to mod maps though?

most current guidelines are there because they are either objectively wrong in most situations, stuff like miss-snapped objects, obnoxious or hard to see colors, or broken hitsounds. Or because its too difficult for a certain difficulty range, like objects too close to spinners on normals.

and if you can play a triple, there shouldn't be too much issue playing a quad.
NeonLick

WitherMite wrote:

I was under the assumption that guidelines aren't there to mod maps though?

most current guidelines are there because they are either objectively wrong in most situations, stuff like miss-snapped objects, obnoxious or hard to see colors, or broken hitsounds. Or because its too difficult for a certain difficulty range, like objects too close to spinners on normals.

and if you can play a triple, there shouldn't be too much issue playing a quad.
RC rules and guidelines provide basic information of what is acceptable and what's not. It's foundation of modding and mapping. So it's exactly to mod maps.

In most situations stack enforces cursor stop at place in music where rhythm literally doubles its speed. In most situations composer use it to rise tension before release. Rising is movement. Building tension is acceleration. Not only cursor stop don't represent those, but contradicts them. How is this not objectively wrong?

And yes, difficulty is out of question. It's all about music representation.
lewski
if you add something like "don't stack circles when it doesn't fit", you might as well add every other similar case too. I'd rather not have a ranking criteria page longer than the bible so let's not go down that path

also I really dont think op's point was about stacking, it sounds way more like bursts of 4 notes so talking about stacking is pretty pointless. if you want the rc to cover specific nitpicks about song representation you can make a thread for that
Zelzatter Zero

0gg wrote:

WitherMite wrote:

"I cant play it therefore its bad"
exactly
unfortunately that also means I have a strong reason to NOT approve of this proposal. Just because you can't play it, doesn't mean you can propose something out of it. Lower difficulties already have rhythm restriction so it's useless, players at higher stage such as Insane or above have the ability to do them at ease.

In other word, just play more lmao.
abraker
ok but we can do 5 stacks then, right? or 6 stacks? what is it about 4 stacks that requires this guideline?
WitherMite
singletapping plebs cant handle even number bursts
NeonLick

lewski wrote:

if you add something like "don't stack circles when it doesn't fit", you might as well add every other similar case too. I'd rather not have a ranking criteria page longer than the bible so let's not go down that path
Yeah, you probably right. RC rules and guidelines should be short and clear. We need some kind of basic mapping guide with list of techniques, their description, usage, purpose, and impact on a player.

lewski wrote:

also I really dont think op's point was about stacking, it sounds way more like bursts of 4 notes so talking about stacking is pretty pointless.
The word "stack" probably make my brain go puff, because the way stacks used is really bothering me.
If it's about banning bursts in general - no way. It just completely destroy music representation of specific genres.

lewski wrote:

if you want the rc to cover specific nitpicks about song representation you can make a thread for that
6 digit scrub with zero ranked maps is wrong person to spread controversial opinions.
momoyo
pepeflop
Tycani
... what?
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