It's naive to think there's a skill cap at all, because nobody has hit a skill cap yet.Goodbye Shin wrote:
That's not even an argument. It's a simplified point of view that fits your opinion, which you're trying to defend. It's just naive to think that everyone has the same skill cap from the start. Nobody disagrees that nurturing helps to improve thou.Aqo wrote:
Everybody who says nature plays a bigger % than nurture is basically looking for excuses for doing badly.
There is a skill cap, if there wouldn't be a skill cap then people could theoretically train to react faster than 10ms, and move their fingers fast enough to be able to play 1000bpm 1/4 streams flawlessly, but that's absurd, because you have PHYSICAL and MENTAL limitations, those limitations are not even for all of us.Aqo wrote:
It's naive to think there's a skill cap at all, because nobody has hit a skill cap yet.
Nobody.
I don't think that makes much sense, no one has ever come even light years close to what you can define "physics and mental limitations".druidxd wrote:
There is a skill cap, if there wouldn't be a skill cap then people could theoretically train to react faster than 10ms, and move their fingers fast enough to be able to play 1000bpm 1/4 streams flawlessly, but that's absurd, because you have PHYSICAL and MENTAL limitations, those limitations are not even for all of us.Aqo wrote:
It's naive to think there's a skill cap at all, because nobody has hit a skill cap yet.
Nobody.
That's the point, you can easily make something sound absurd, but if you think about it, if skill cap is non-existant, as Aqo said, just because nobody has hit it yet, then you can think of absurd things, such as streaming 1000 bpm, or reacting almost instantly, but as we know, that's just impossible, physically impossible, it's a limitation that our human body gives us.Jordan wrote:
I don't think that makes much sense, no one has ever come even light years close to what you can define "physics and mental limitations".
The idea of streaming over 240bpm was absurd and beyond impossible at 2009. If you told somebody then that people can learn to do 270bpm streams he'll be like "pfft that's impossible".druidxd wrote:
then you can think of absurd things, such as streaming 1000 bpm, or reacting almost instantly, but as we know, that's just impossible, physically impossible, it's a limitation that our human body gives us.
Aqo wrote:
The idea of streaming over 240bpm was absurd and beyond impossible at 2009. If you told somebody then that people can learn to do 270bpm streams he'll be like "pfft that's impossible".druidxd wrote:
then you can think of absurd things, such as streaming 1000 bpm, or reacting almost instantly, but as we know, that's just impossible, physically impossible, it's a limitation that our human body gives us.
Did the laws of physics suddenly change over the years or something.
300bpm streams don't even seem impossible to me right now D:GoldenWolf wrote:
300bpm streams seems impossible to me now, does it mean it will be the standard in 2 years ? C'mon aqo.
Humans are able to innovate in many different ways. 4000 bpm is a bit out there, but I imagine with 4 fingers and a little programming it would be easy to do. Someone would probably call that cheating though.Jordan wrote:
There is a skill cap, if there wouldn't be a skill cap then people could theoretically train to react faster than 10ms, and move their fingers fast enough to be able to play 1000bpm 1/4 streams flawlessly, but that's absurd, because you have PHYSICAL and MENTAL limitations, those limitations are not even for all of us.
I'm not looking for excuses, and i'm even probably soon retireing from osu because I'm going to start playing competitive dota 2, and other games, but saying that there isn't a skill cap and justifying it by saying that players back in 200X couldn't stream is just using a flawed argument.Aqo wrote:
No matter what you say, people haven't come close to limits yet.
Things that look impossible to you now will become standard once players who play seriously will play more and improve more.
Trying to blame your inability to do stuff on nature is basically looking for excuses to not having nurtured enough.
1760 (440bpm 1/4ths) keyboard strokes per minute using only 2 keys on a keyboard is not far fetched according to other rhythm games.Aqo wrote:
300bpm streams don't even seem impossible to me right now D:
The hard limits right now (based on player performance) are:
250bpm stream
240bpm jump
The light limits (based on player inconsistent performance):
300bpm stream
275bpm jump
I want those people's fingers and keyboards. ;_;ziin wrote:
1760 (440bpm 1/4ths) keyboard strokes per minute using only 2 keys on a keyboard is not far fetched according to other rhythm games.
1760 keyboard strokes per minute using 2 keys.ziin wrote:
1760 (440bpm 1/4ths) keyboard strokes per minute using only 2 keys on a keyboard is not far fetched according to other rhythm games.
That's the world record of keystrokes per second on a SINGLE key, and that's probably done the same way we see people upload single tapping videos to youtube where they stream at about 180bpm/190bpm single tapping, they don't really press it the same way we do, they do something as "shivering" to achieve this. I doubt that people could "shiver" double tapping, too unlikely, and probably impossible, unless it's done with the taiko big circle method, but that means poor accuracy. So no, I don't think anyone would be able to stream 480bpm, probably 300-350bpm 1/4ths, but it's already really a lot, more than that's it's too unlikely.Aqo wrote:
If the world record is streaming 480bpm then we're still far off from being anywhere near the limit yo.
Come on guys step it up. Practice harder.
Do you even lift.
Do you single tap 240bpm 1/4ths streams? (the math was done counting every note on a Xbpm 1/4ths stream)MillhioreF wrote:
Well, that's not streaming 480bpm, that's singletapping 240 bpm. I can singletap 110 bpm for ages but can't stream 220 bpm for very long at all, so there's some difference.
I know, It was just a calculation done theoretically, there are other factors involved in osu!, pratically I would say that a stream "skill cap" would be around achieve 300-350bpm 1/4ths, talking about pro's.buny wrote:
You can't just double single tap speed and call it stream speed
Otherwise I'd be dt'ing chipscape
You're just making up numbers and, had somebody made up those numbers with the same mindset you're using right now, 3 years ago, they'd come up with lower numbers.druidxd wrote:
I know, It was just a calculation done theoretically, there are other factors involved in osu!, pratically I would say that a stream "skill cap" would be around achieve 300-350bpm 1/4ths, talking about pro's.
That IS true right now, but in a couple years it will be more evident that nature limits you, as you said, we will be impressed by people streaming 325bpm, and we would probably say that this was unthinkable 2 years in the past, probably cookiezi will still be a "god" of osu, but also probably other players will shine with their talent.Aqo wrote:
You're just making up numbers and, had somebody made up those numbers with the same mindset you're using right now, 3 years ago, they'd come up with lower numbers.druidxd wrote:
I know, It was just a calculation done theoretically, there are other factors involved in osu!, pratically I would say that a stream "skill cap" would be around achieve 300-350bpm 1/4ths, talking about pro's.
Point is: nature doesn't limit you in any practical way. Maybe some cap exists somewhere but nobody can claim to be restricted by nature because so far there is not a single player anywhere close to a cap.
It's not linear, in fact I didn't even said it was linear, I did said that improvement had a limit, and the closer you get to that limit the less improvement you will see in an "x" period of time.buny wrote:
Nobody streamed fast in the older days because no map required a fast stream speed
People learn to stream faster because of the faster tempo songs that are made in this day of age. That doesn't mean that it is a linear improvement.