I agree! I might as well just merge this with (move this to) t/108083 or somethingsilmarilen wrote:
couldnt you just have posted this in one of the 4504876 other topics about this?
or better yet, in jesus' sticky
forum
Mouse only at the highest level of competition
posted
Total Posts
157
lol of course your going to play better with lower..........
he's not implying that, he's saying that low sensitivity made him play betterBRBP wrote:
Please explain to me how you can be so sure that playing 3 months with very high sensitivity and then lowering it is better than playing 3 months with low sensitivity.
idk who would use maximum sensitivity though, or even change it through ingame settings.
BRBP wrote:
Please explain to me how you can be so sure that playing 3 months with very high sensitivity and then lowering it is better than playing 3 months with low sensitivity.
buny wrote:
he's not implying that, he's saying that low sensitivity made him play better
Lilium213 wrote:
If your accuracy with the mouse is not good try to get used to play with high (very high) sensibility and when you can do the beatmaps in hard (like this one http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24473) and then change again to lower sensibility. It worked for me.
key part of that sentenceLilium213 wrote:
If your accuracy with the mouse is not good try to get used to play with high (very high) sensibility and when you can do the beatmaps in hard (like this one http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24473) and then change again to lower sensibility. It worked for me.
that's some hard aqo-logic right here.silmarilen wrote:
key part of that sentenceLilium213 wrote:
If your accuracy with the mouse is not good try to get used to play with high (very high) sensibility and when you can do the beatmaps in hard (like this one http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24473) and then change again to lower sensibility. It worked for me.
I have been playing mouse only this past week and it seems my accuracy is actually better than my keyboard accuracy, even though I haven't played actively since last summer. Took me 2 days to get my stamina back 
I think it's funny how everyone has gone from "LOL high dpi best" to "omg noob use low dpi" during my time on the forums
I think it's funny how everyone has gone from "LOL high dpi best" to "omg noob use low dpi" during my time on the forums
still using high dpi masterrace here
1500 dpi masterrace
zomg just tried 2 mice and I gotta say it's tons of fun!
Instead of using 1 mouse for pure clicking and 1 for movement, I was using 1 button from each mouse so I can alternate with both hands (while the right hand mouse still controls movement at the same time). This reminds me of drumming... quite addictive actually
Instead of using 1 mouse for pure clicking and 1 for movement, I was using 1 button from each mouse so I can alternate with both hands (while the right hand mouse still controls movement at the same time). This reminds me of drumming... quite addictive actually
been low dpi since i joined
come@mebros
come@mebros
woah i miss the whole entire second partBRBP wrote:
BRBP wrote:
Please explain to me how you can be so sure that playing 3 months with very high sensitivity and then lowering it is better than playing 3 months with low sensitivity.buny wrote:
he's not implying that, he's saying that low sensitivity made him play betterLilium213 wrote:
If your accuracy with the mouse is not good try to get used to play with high (very high) sensibility and when you can do the beatmaps in hard (like this one http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24473) and then change again to lower sensibility. It worked for me.
well that is just plain retarded.
I actually wanted to learn on streaming with that alternating method. I always had trouble with that because I tend to press both clicks at the same time.Oinari-sama wrote:
Instead of using 1 mouse for pure clicking and 1 for movement, I was using 1 button from each mouse so I can alternate with both hands (while the right hand mouse still controls movement at the same time). This reminds me of drumming... quite addictive actually
I had to admit that streaming with mouse feels a lot better than with rubber dome keyboard. It could be just me tho.
I find that alternating streaming quite easy to do (if I may say so on my first day). However all the "normal" stuff like triplets and 5s has become a pain in the *** if the spacing is huge. It's so ambiguous, that if I rely on one hand only (for being not used to it) I'll get 100/50, or just plain miss if I 2-mice alternate (due to friction differentials). It might take some time to get used to alternating (accurately) with left hand mouse.Winshley wrote:
I actually wanted to learn on streaming with that alternating method. I always had trouble with that because I tend to press both clicks at the same time.Oinari-sama wrote:
Instead of using 1 mouse for pure clicking and 1 for movement, I was using 1 button from each mouse so I can alternate with both hands (while the right hand mouse still controls movement at the same time). This reminds me of drumming... quite addictive actually
I had to admit that streaming with mouse feels a lot better than with rubber dome keyboard. It could be just me tho.
Nevertheless it's heaps of fun. I'm so glad to have found a new way to enjoy osu
The longer a normal person plays with a specific sensitivity the better they will be with it. Whether or not a weirdo does better changing it up is irrelevant.
Also, lower sensitivity is better for anything but super easy maps where you want to max out your RPM with no real effort whatsoever.And learning to keyboard really is worth it.
Also, lower sensitivity is better for anything but super easy maps where you want to max out your RPM with no real effort whatsoever.
Coincidentally, I don't know how to ride a bike but am planning to learn how to do it this summer for that exact reason. Easily one of the best comparisons I've seen on osu! (though this isn't really saying much).Wishy wrote:
Imagine I didn't know how to ride a bike, that doesn't mean it wouldn't be worth learning how to do so since I'll be faster on a bike than on feet.
increasing dpi does not increase spin speed
if you think for 2 seconds you'd find the reason why.
if you think for 2 seconds you'd find the reason why.
increasing dpi makes the spinradius wider, but the physical speed (and thus the SPM-count ingame) is the same.buny wrote:
increasing dpi does not increase spin speed
if you think for 2 seconds you'd find the reason why.
do I get a cookie?
though a wider spinradius helps you not "missing" the slider and getting faster spins that way.
So would anyone care to explain to me why Tablet is suck a better pointing device than mouse? I can understand why Keyboard+Pointing Device is better than pointing device alone (although I play better Mouse-only because I have a mouse with Omron microswitches and a rubber dome keyboard). However, I don't understand what makes a tablet better as a pointing device. You may say "well it's more accurate", but it seems with Osu! in particular a lot of mouse players use ridiculously high dpi which affects accuracy (if you're good with high dpi that's fine but you shouldn't claim mouse isn't accurate if you use >1000 dpi, on a personal note, I play at ultra-low 200 dpi). Other than that, Tablet just seems like an alternative pointing device.
[quote="https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/71895":1337] The biggest difference that a tablet has over a mouse is that it features absolute tracking. This means that every point on the tablet corresponds to a particular point on the screen. If you lift the pen outside of the sensitive range, then put it down on another part of the tablet, the cursor will "jump" to that location. This is opposed to mice, which rely on relative tracking.
I've never really bought into the whole relative/absolute tracking thing; a mouse approximates absolute tracking if you never lift it anyways. My draw to the tablet was the higher ease of maneuverability and lower weight offered by the pen.
No it doesn't. There is no perfect sensor on the planet that can produce perfect 1:1 response, the errors are in the region of ~0.5% for both angles and distances at those angles. There is always error, which is the nature of optical tracking. Mouse engineers try their best to fix the random deviation, and give you a slightly different, but consistent deviation instead.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
I've never really bought into the whole relative/absolute tracking thing; a mouse approximates absolute tracking if you never lift it anyways.
It is negligible during normal play or when doing a "book test" (physical boundaries) only performing a horizontal swipe. This only tests acceleration which is an easy test. You can't test deviation because you try to measure the mouse against itself, which yields the same result every time, unless you have a separate tool to do so. But for the most part it is very consistent, the differences are minimal and negligible, and only requires practice to get used to it.
All I am saying is... it's far from absolute.
I can see the argument there. I don't really care that much if I'm at a disadvantage because I'll never be or at least it'll be a very long time before I reach the highest level of play. If I wanted to be competitive I'd invest in a good tablet but I can't be bothered to get one for a single game, especially when I'm not playing it competitively. Even still, there's not really much of a disadvantage when you have mouse players at the top level. Compare that to say a gamepad vs a mouse (and yet there's this one guy who actually plays Osu! with a gamepad and doesn't totally suck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0TQ4_9QVzE) which are in entirely different leagues. The mouse might be still at a disadvantage but it's still a very viable tool.silmarilen wrote:
[quote="https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/71895":1337] The biggest difference that a tablet has over a mouse is that it features absolute tracking. This means that every point on the tablet corresponds to a particular point on the screen. If you lift the pen outside of the sensitive range, then put it down on another part of the tablet, the cursor will "jump" to that location. This is opposed to mice, which rely on relative tracking.
Soarezi
i prefer mouse + kb however i think that with mouse only you need less force to click those buttons -> u can stream faster i guess
i've tablet too but never liked playing with it, so i use mouse
i've tablet too but never liked playing with it, so i use mouse
But there really aren't that many.Soarezi wrote:
If mouse was at at disadvantage it wouldn't be too huge because there are MANY top ranked players that use mouse.
Hence, approximates. The tracking for a quality optical sensor is still very precise, and if you're lifting either your mouse or your tablet pen as a means of movement, you're doing it wrong. You could get rid of the absolute tracking and a tablet would still be preferable to a mouse.RaneFire wrote:
All I am saying is... it's far from absolute.
I think Full_Tablet mentioned the ability to physically accelerate the pen is much "higher" - 3m/s+ acceleration over a few cm, as opposed to mice which require 20+cm of movement to reach the same physical values... and I agree with him. So yeah, it is lighter and easier to move.NarrillNezzurh wrote:
Hence, approximates. The tracking for a quality optical sensor is still very precise, and if you're lifting either your mouse or your tablet pen as a means of movement, you're doing it wrong. You could get rid of the absolute tracking and a tablet would still be preferable to a mouse.RaneFire wrote:
All I am saying is... it's far from absolute.
However, I still prefer mouse and a few other players who also have both peripherals feel the same way.
I don't know but Cookiezi random played ha-tenya DT on mouse and got x1 random miss 0x100 so I'd say you can get pretty far.
If mouse was at at disadvantage it wouldn't be too huge because there are MANY top ranked players that use mouse.PP yes, but we all know how does it work.
Otherwise, nope. TP rank is just one good example. Though some tablet players can play with mouse well too. It's difficult to assess when that "highest level of competition" begins, but in top 200 TP I see like max 10 of them?? I don't know every mouse player nor did I check everyone in this top 200 but I think I'm spot on. Of course there are guys which are very good and out of top 200 but still it won't make a good number compared to tabletguys.
Also I think this topic is about mouse-only which differs pretty much from mouse + kb.
Well, mouse used both styles is on the way of becoming extinct at the highest level of competition.
Mouse has insane potential but it's ultimately governed by your reading skills. Cookiezi's perception of osu! makes his mouse skill skyrocket to really high levels at a fast rate. That was the case with niko as well.Wishy wrote:
I don't know but Cookiezi random played ha-tenya DT on mouse and got x1 random miss 0x100 so I'd say you can get pretty far.
Or just a more humble example from my own experience, I never learned how to jump until I used a tablet for many months. After learning how jumps work I started being able to do it with a mouse.
I feel like every mouse player posting in this thread saying it can't compete at a pro level just wants more recognition to their own plays. For fuck sake it's a game have fun with it or stop playing it as much like I did.
I would agree with Kriers, without knowledge of how to play mouse having played enough tablet it was relatively the same. With extreme limitations that had to be overcome with practice of course.
I feel like every mouse player posting in this thread saying it can't compete at a pro level just wants more recognition to their own playsI feel like most of mouse players posting in this thread know the best how it is hard to compete with mouse at pro level.
Though I've never said that mouse sucks compared to pen.
I play mouse-only thoroughly with a reason only to have fun.
Because I like the challenge, though I never compete in multiplayer because it's just too one-sided with me being the losing, as always.
Though nowadays I play to improve myself, I still find it enjoyable to use mouse.
But to be proffesional never crossed my mind. I suppose you need to play a ton, practice a ton and enjoy a ton to do that.
Because I like the challenge, though I never compete in multiplayer because it's just too one-sided with me being the losing, as always.
Though nowadays I play to improve myself, I still find it enjoyable to use mouse.
But to be proffesional never crossed my mind. I suppose you need to play a ton, practice a ton and enjoy a ton to do that.
If they knew how hard it was to compete then mouse would still be viable at a high level of competition which many of them are trying to deny.AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
I feel like every mouse player posting in this thread saying it can't compete at a pro level just wants more recognition to their own playsI feel like most of mouse players posting in this thread know the best how it is hard to compete with mouse at pro level.
Though I've never said that mouse sucks compared to pen.
The point is trying to argue the difference between mouse and tablet can only be answered in 1 way which silm already posted. Mouse is still viable and can be just as good as tablet if you are willing to practice just like anyone else. The only reason so few mouse players exist is because people make it seem like mouse is not even viable so new players end up getting tablets instead of trying to even learn mouse.