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Allow to use different Approach Rates in map

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Total Posts
313
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +1,210
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Mastodonio
1,120 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio
well,experienced players can play well with different AR's ,I think.
Maybe mappers just should use different AR's only in "Hard" and "Insane" difficulty,because this will be hard to play for newbies in 'Easy' or in 'Normal' with different AR's. Or mappers should use different AR's on all diffs : newbies can adapt to this - this won't take a lot of time!
The second option sounds much better to me. So,I think it's good.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
BPM changes should be apparent in the music and I can only see this being confusing/messy. At that point, you're invalidating several visual cues (this is a bad thing) such as placing hitobject order based on when the approach circles appear.

If you're going from a fast to a slow BPM, some slow BPM objects' approach rates will appear before some of the fast BPM objects' approach rates

that sentence may have been hard to understand, but the gameplay would be even worse
Mastodonio
1,120 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio
Well,every man has it's own opinion) I don't agree with you guys - maybe you are right,but maybe you are not.
We should just test this ability and see how it works - If the gameplay will become worse,then it will be possible to put this option away,I think..?
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Hinanawi-sama
72 posts
Joined January 2011
Hinanawi-sama
if its THAT extreme^^^^^, then it will be caught when modded
FurukawaPan
649 posts
Joined August 2008
FurukawaPan
I just want to say, I really hope this never gets added.

I really don't ever want to see changing approach rates in any map, God forbid it be a ranked map. >:(

I would only expect a drastic increase in the number of Insanes which become *completely* unplayable to anyone who hasn't simply memorized every move in that map. And if you're looking for a memorization challenge, use hidden or flashlight. :P
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
you could put a restriction on this feature that requires a break section to change it. Being able to change Approach Rate on the fly during active gameplay is destructive to the map's readability. Forcing changes to only occur during break sections would mitigate that nicely. Adding a limit to the delta Approach Rate would also be a good idea.

A few hard-coded limitations would prevent users from being stupid with it. I've had a mild change of heart about the request: when a song is notably faster in one section than another, a faster approach rate makes a degree of sense.
Metro
692 posts
Joined April 2010
Metro

FurukawaPan wrote:

I just want to say, I really hope this never gets added.

I really don't ever want to see changing approach rates in any map, God forbid it be a ranked map. >:(

I would only expect a drastic increase in the number of Insanes which become *completely* unplayable to anyone who hasn't simply memorized every move in that map. And if you're looking for a memorization challenge, use hidden or flashlight. :P
^
Ussuru
Ussuru
No thank you
Mastodonio
1,120 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio

Ussuru wrote:

No thank you
Oh God,I waited when you will come!!! Now all I can do - is to give up with this idea and quit.
Suimya
6,374 posts
Joined February 2011
Suimya
I support this idea~>w<
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d
I support this, as I can see at least a couple of uses for it. If a track slows down, then a slower approach rate would feel better. Irrespective of difficulty, a slow section where the beats appear quickly feels wrong. Conversely, a fast section with a clusterfuck of slow approaches also feels wrong, unless honeycomb puzzles are the desired effect. This brings me to my next point: for added difficulty, an [Insane] map could go from breakneck to puzzling. It would certainly offer an interesting challenge.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest

Metro wrote:

FurukawaPan wrote:

I just want to say, I really hope this never gets added.

I really don't ever want to see changing approach rates in any map, God forbid it be a ranked map. >:(

I would only expect a drastic increase in the number of Insanes which become *completely* unplayable to anyone who hasn't simply memorized every move in that map. And if you're looking for a memorization challenge, use hidden or flashlight. :P
^
^
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
I'm honestly not sure I like this idea, because it would look odd, be somewhat confusing, and IMO AR is something that should be consistent throughout the whole map...
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
i dunno D:
Last edited by theowest , edited 5 times in total.
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto
I support this idea, because I do believe that there are many songs which switch from very fast-paced, hardcore sections to calmer ones. Well known examples would be System of a Down - B.Y.O.B., La Roux - Bulletproof, Florence + The Machine - Drumming Song, Rise Against - Prayer of the Refugee, System of a Down - Vicinity of Obscenity, and many many more. Just go through your osu! library and you'll quickly find many songs which could probably have used this feature. But, then again, I can understand that larger changes, like from 9 to 5 would already be confusing as fuck while playing. That's why I suggest limiting by how much you can change it. I'd say by 2 points at max. So, if you have AR 7, you can use 9, 8, 6 or 5, but not more in any direction. I'd like that, slight changes like those can already influence how fitting the Approach Rate for a section is. I for example would have liked -1 on the slow sections in Drumming Song and Bulletproof. -2 would only be necessary in really extreme cases like Vicinity of Obscenity. We obviously don't need to go from 9 to 2.

EDIT: And at best, there should be a break between the approach rate changes, but this is understandably not always possible, so the AR-2-Limit must do. And I'd say that if there is a break, you should have a larger limit, like 3, which could be very useful when mapping medleys or other marathons.
Mastodonio
1,120 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio

Larto wrote:

I support this idea, because I do believe that there are many songs which switch from very fast-paced, hardcore sections to calmer ones. Well known examples would be System of a Down - B.Y.O.B., La Roux - Bulletproof, Florence + The Machine - Drumming Song, Rise Against - Prayer of the Refugee, System of a Down - Vicinity of Obscenity, and many many more. Just go through your osu! library and you'll quickly find many songs which could probably have used this feature. But, then again, I can understand that larger changes, like from 9 to 5 would already be confusing as fuck while playing. That's why I suggest limiting by how much you can change it. I'd say by 2 points at max. So, if you have AR 7, you can use 9, 8, 6 or 5, but not more in any direction. I'd like that, slight changes like those can already influence how fitting the Approach Rate for a section is. I for example would have liked -1 on the slow sections in Drumming Song and Bulletproof. -2 would only be necessary in really extreme cases like Vicinity of Obscenity. We obviously don't need to go from 9 to 2.

EDIT: And at best, there should be a break between the approach rate changes, but this is understandably not always possible, so the AR-2-Limit must do. And I'd say that if there is a break, you should have a larger limit, like 3, which could be very useful when mapping medleys or other marathons.
sounds pretty nice,I like it
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
I seriously don't see this idea working out well at all. This idea is potentially great but I don't see it being used correctly. Plus it would make maps pretty hard to read/predict, like you come from some AR 9 fast map and suddenly in a slow part you get AR 7, it would be just awful. And, plus again, try understanding that applying different ARs in easy diffs may be confusing for those who play them (I think), and AR 7 on insanes looks horrible (on super insanes AR 7 just makes them unplayable), so I would only really be OK if the possible margin would be +1 -1, since with that you get hard insanes to get 8 as minimum, and normal insane maps (or even hards) can get some "good enough" AR variation, but if this is going like +2 -2 I'm totally against it.
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto

Wishy22 wrote:

I seriously don't see this idea working out well at all. This idea is potentially great but I don't see it being used correctly.
Just as everything ever can be abused, this idea also can be, of course. But that doesn't mean it's not a good idea and cannot be used well. Besides, if it IS abused, that should be pointed out during the modding process.

Wishy22 wrote:

Plus it would make maps pretty hard to read/predict, like you come from some AR 9 fast map and suddenly in a slow part you get AR 7, it would be just awful.
Which is why +2 and -2 should only be used in rare cases where it really really really fits. Those exist, but are unlikely. +2/-2 was only an example anyways, we can keep it at +1/-1, that's not for me to decide, I was just talking about the general idea.

Wishy22 wrote:

And, plus again, try understanding that applying different ARs in easy diffs may be confusing for those who play them (I think), and AR 7 on insanes looks horrible (on super insanes AR 7 just makes them unplayable),
The ARs would also have to be applied fittingly to every difficulty, obviously. +1/-1 should even in Easies not be that awfully confusing to follow, if it does fit the song. And you wouldn't go from AR 8 to AR 7 in an Insane if the map didn't also become slightly easier at that point. That'd be ruining the point.

Wishy22 wrote:

so I would only really be OK if the possible margin would be +1 -1, since with that you get hard insanes to get 8 as minimum, and normal insane maps (or even hards) can get some "good enough" AR variation, but if this is going like +2 -2 I'm totally against it.
Well, +2 -2 is only a suggestion, like I said, it'd only ever be needed in very rare, very extreme cases. +1 -1 is more likely to ever be needed.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Then we both think the same about this. I was just pointing out that I can already see this being troublesome, since the fact that some players consider some AR unplayable or horrible to play with and others are the opposite is a reality, so maybe in some maps you lower the AR for a slow part and while some players gonna find it ok, some others gonna hate it and bash the map. I just think a feature like this could bear up some problems that can't really be solved since each player has it's own perspective of what AR fits and what doesn't. But of course it could work, guess the best solution for this would be to apply it to some maps so everyone can actually try it and feel how it'd play.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Larto wrote:

it'd only ever be needed in very rare, very extreme cases.
You know, the point of supporting a feature is to show why it's needed; not to say that it's rarely needed hence like saying that it doesn't need to be implemented due to it's rare use.

Other than that, i pretty much agree since im used to associate approach rate with the general speed of the map, and when the map slows down, high AR just feels awkward.
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto

Larto wrote:

+2 -2 is only a suggestion, like I said, it'd only ever be needed in very rare, very extreme cases. +1 -1 is more likely to ever be needed.
I'm only talking about +2 and -2. Not +1 and -1, which would be useful fairly commonly.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
oops i missed that :p sorry Larto

@Wishy22: Players already bash maps for plenty other unreasonable reasons i dont see how this would make it any different =/
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
More than 2 unique approach rates are being used in this map.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
More than 1 unique approach rates are being used in this map. For this reason, I have taken the courtesy of deleting it from your hard drive along with all remote copies. Have a nice day, buzz click.
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto
If you want to be like that, do that with Nightcore already. ;p
Trauma-
58 posts
Joined November 2009
Trauma-
I agree, simply because im just mapping a song with different timing sections, im pending between two ARs and can't decide, it would fit much better to the map if i could use both
modders should take a look on it carefully so it shouldn't be abused right ?
about the players...well there are also maps which map style I don't like, however I play them till I can pass it and its the same with AR imo. if you get used to it you can pass the map, it has to be at least to be 2-3 AR points (depending on diff i guess) to be really "disturbing" otherwise i feel sorry for the superficiality of some players to bash a map badly because the AR is wrong by 1 point...

I played enough maps which AR i don't like, mostly to slow AR however sometimes at slow sections high AR fits really horrible...

I think AR +/- 1 is fine, should be only used on bpm changes tho
Copter-kun
399 posts
Joined February 2011
Copter-kun
Bump
Low
2,006 posts
Joined July 2011
Low
Easy difficulty AR 10 for pros
Mercurial
Mercurial
Awesome bump +Support.
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
I would make all those shitty ar9 maps into ar8 \;D/
dNextGen
4,689 posts
Joined May 2010
dNextGen
come on,deny this shit already
Mastodonio
1,120 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio

dNextGen wrote:

come on,let me be smarter and let me get out of here already
5 Graveyard Maps is not a right way to vote here.
DawnII
osu! Alumni
558 posts
Joined April 2008
DawnII
I remember when we didn't allow slider speed changes.
ampzz
ampzz
Oh god, no.
I would never enjoy trying to hidden sightread an approach change in a map, it would be a nightmare, even hard rock players would find it tediously annoying.

Also, kriers, stick to your silly Easy mod. XD
dNextGen
4,689 posts
Joined May 2010
dNextGen

Giorgos wrote:

dNextGen wrote:

come on,let me be smarter and let me get out of here already
5 Graveyard Maps is not a right way to vote here.
?_____?

how does my graved maps related to this topic ? please enlighten me with your awesome knowledge
Mastodonio
1,120 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
Mastodonio

dNextGen wrote:

?_____?

how does my graved maps related to this topic ? please enlighten me with your awesome knowledge
You don't have any ranked maps,which means,that you are 99% don't understand why does osu needs different AR's in some songs. you are a kind of man who just need to come and talk shit about others without any evidence. Don't try to prove me wrong,because I am right in this situation.
Now don't go offtopic here,if you want to tell me something - write a PM.
dNextGen
4,689 posts
Joined May 2010
dNextGen
not going to say anything since i seriously had no idea what the fuck are you talking about

sorry for being too stupid to understand your words tho
Last edited by dNextGen , edited 1 time in total.
IppE
IppE
Just force AR9 to every single map.

/thread
Frizz
4,131 posts
Joined April 2011
Frizz
But then it's unfitting on some maps.
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