@James2250: Yeah that is why I made that theory... To justify the reason of existence of CtB-only map.
@Shiirn: Uh, I don't think difficulty problem can be a good reason, to be honest. Mappers tried to map unreasonably hard CtB maps and that was the one reason of previous failures. We need to explain why CtB-only diffs are better than playing standard maps, and that's why I suggest concept of horizontal spacing.
@Wishy22: Well, auto can do almost everything even if that is actually impossible, and it also applies to osu standard & taiko. If auto misses, most of cases are just lags, but some of them have definate reason.

Imagine if we had hyperdroplets. I wonder if there is any chance of that being implemented, that will make CTB mapping so easier. The number of scores that will be disrupted by this implementation is minimal (strangeprogram is the only one I can think of right now), so maybe it's a good deal.

Also, ignore me if this has been mentioned by Shiirn's math before, but there is one more type of "uncatchable" pattern, and this does not include sliders.


This is from Risk Junk-G - Candy Galy [ignore's Another]. Those fruits are uncatchable, because each of them are pixel jumps. This should also be considered when mapping.

Aren't hyperdroplets available in CtB Diff of "Fur elise"?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/23916

In fact, I have discuss with Alace this topic last year, but I think I have been ignored for a long time..
.So I still wonder BATs will conscientiously looking at this kind of thread...but anyway, I will give my opinions.

Firstly, I support the ctb specific map can be rankable.

with the ctb player increasing, the level of all the players is running very high, simple osu! standard trasferring map cannot satisfy them. So they start to do their own map.
Of course, most of their maps is doing not well because they are just beginning to map, not even have a mapping experience in standard mode.
But there is still some of the maps is good enough to be approved, or even ranked.

However, we should solve some problems before we can accept ctb spiecific map.

1. Is there any difference between ctb specific map and standard osu transferring map?

that means, is there any patterns that can appear in ctb specific map but rarely see in osu transferring map? If there is a specific pattern and it is really fun for playing, there will be a strong point of making CTB specific map approvable.

2. Is it really need to make a CTB specific map approvable?

I think this is the main reason that BATs do not accept ctb map.
Taiko map has its reason to become specific map, (e.g. Slider Velocity, continuous red circle, unexpected 1/8, etc), but it seems that when osu map transferring to ctb map, everying goes well unless some bug jump(impossible Jump without hyperdash). But this kind of jump we can only see very few maps in the whole ranked maps. So, people who do not play ctb mode often will say that there is no need to make a CTB specific map, using transferring map is enough. We need to find more evidence to prove that ctb map is needed.

3.If ctb map is rankable, who will be the modder, and who will adjust the map can be rank or not?

This should be the biggest problem. As we all know that, BATs/MATs usually do not play CTB often, They do not have enough ctb experience. So it is really difficult for them to adjust which of the map is rankable, which is perfect, which cannot be ranked. Also, it is impossible to accept mode-specific modder, that will make things even complicated. So i think, for ctb map ranable, this is the biggest problem.
for this problem, I think we can give some of the MATs who have enough ctb experience to mod ctb-map and gives the permittion of ranking ctb map.

OK, If we need a guideline now, I am happy to share my point of view:



1. for the opinion in song setup:

2. for the arrangement.


3 for the timing.

4. others


I will update it once I have new ideas.

Oops.. this is the longest post I have ever post= =

Louis Cyphre wrote:

I'd say - do not abuse with jumps that are near to "hyperdash jump", that are close to go above limit of the standart jumps.
Also some maps are really hard to SS, so if you write FC-ble should be better.

No, it has to be SS. There may be points that are very difficult which are hard to SS, but someone has to prove that that section is SS-able. Could be done with a bot which is limited to ryuuta's actual speed.

KRZY wrote:

pixel jumps

As this would make the map un SS-able, yes. However, I really don't understand the term "pixel jump". And I don't quite understand how or why this is so impossible. You can hit 2 notes, but you can't hit the 3rd...

Even if ranking never happens, these are guidelines which every mapper should follow (except for taiko) if they want their standard osu map to be a not-impossible CTB map.

Krzysiek wrote:

Aren't hyperdroplets available in CtB Diff of "Fur elise"?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/23916

those are slider ticks. Regular notes are the "300" note, slider ticks are the "100" note, and slider droplets are the "50" note. Their scores are different, though (slider droplets are worth 10 each, regardless of multiplier).

Unless I am mistaken, there is no accuracy on CTB. It's either a hit or a miss, period. If you miss a note, it's worth 0%. And all notes count for accuracy including slider droplets.

Slider ticks CAN be hyper, even if the next note is a slider droplet.

Just some thoughts...

ZHSteven wrote:

1. Is there any difference between ctb specific map and standard osu transferring map?

At least I stated theoretical basis about this one, and also I think we can find some 'mapping techniques' to make the map fun enough which can't be achieved in most osu standard maps. (To be honest I think this should be done before setting regulations, but who cares.)

ZHSteven wrote:

2. Is it really need to make a CTB specific map approvable?

If differences are stated enough, I think people will accept it.

ZHSteven wrote:

3.If ctb map is rankable, who will be the modder, and who will adjust the map can be rank or not?

Think about current system of Taiko modding & ranking. Currently no one regulates it, and I think CtB diffs end up like that too. There were several efforts to place some supervisor who is good at Taiko mapping & modding, but all of them were failed.

ZHSteven wrote:

3 for the timing.

Nah let's just use basic SV(need to set high enough if you want to use fast sliders cause it represent the highest speed of slider in CtB), uninherited section with custom SV, and slant sliders(stiff slope means you don't need to move that much to catch the slider properly). Timing is usually unchangable cause it's characteristic value of the music. (Or at least most of mappers now don't think it as changable thing. Oh, and there's no limitation in the number of uninheritted section actually, usually the music itself does not need multiple offset.)

ziin wrote:

KRZY wrote:

pixel jumps

As this would make the map un SS-able, yes. However, I really don't understand the term "pixel jump". And I don't quite understand how or why this is so impossible. You can hit 2 notes, but you can't hit the 3rd...

Let's say you have jumps from left to right. If it's a pixel jump, you can *just barely* catch it if Ryuuta catches the first fruit with the last few pixels on the left side of his plate and dashes instantly. You will be able to catch the second fruit with the far right side of the plate.
If there is another pixel jump right after that, in the same direction, it's impossible to catch that because you are not in the correct position (you caught the fruit with the right side of the plate, so you'll be ~1 fruit-width short of catching the third one, even if you played frame- and pixel-perfect).
Hope that was understandable xD

For bug jump, here is the screenshot for your referance.


See the difference? the first long stream doesn't have hyperdash, whereas the smaller jump have hyperdash.

if you want to know more, plz click here~~

edit:

Krzysiek wrote:

Aren't hyperdroplets available in CtB Diff of "Fur elise"?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/23916

You'd better not place some so called "hyper-droplet" in sliders. Because when this kind of thing appears, your slider is nearly a bug slider.
only some experinced CTB mapper like LC can handle this..

Same as KRZY there are an impossible pattern how in this song http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18009
Also I think the minimal AP ought be 5 because too slow fruits are boring. And the max AP ought be 9 because 10 is very fast I think.
And maps like this http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=93893&m=2 (are possible), should be unrankable because has no FC'ed Except ExGon but with EasyMode.

Anything that can help just let me know.

@James2250

I believe the main reason is to expand the mapping rankables beyond the limiting just taiko and standard.
I also think that if taiko mappers got their taiko, why not let CTB mappers have there CTB?

@ZHSteven

saying we need evidence that CTB is needed? that is kinda like saying Taiko was absolutely needed in the game
I'm saying neither were at all required but were added into the game play modes to make the experience more fun for some.
If taiko were allowed some guidelines, why not at least attempt to let CTB have theirs?

lepidopodus wrote:

ZHSteven wrote:

3.If ctb map is rankable, who will be the modder, and who will adjust the map can be rank or not?

Think about current system of Taiko modding & ranking. Currently no one regulates it, and I think CtB diffs end up like that too. There were several efforts to place some supervisor who is good at Taiko mapping & modding, but all of them were failed.

I don't see why we need an a taiko or CTB regulation team.
Normal modders will sometimes mod taiko to. (Krisom wood be a good example)
Normal modders will sometimes mod CTB also. (Faust did so at some points I believe)

If a team were to ever be needed, its just to check authentic songs.

First of all, I totally support this (I have no stars left though)

About the guidelines proposed:

Zelos wrote:

•If you are mapping a fast song or using a fast slider velocity (the slider velocity can generally apply to a good amount of CTB mapping) limit your amount of double backing sliders from 3 to 4. Don't put a huge distance between the ending of the 1st slider and the beginning of a new double backing slider. http://puu.sh/1dEO This is an example of double backing sliders.

They are a bit tricky to hit, but they're OK for me.
I think they should be rankable if they doesn't need to get hyperdashed (In this example, the sliders are at 2x BPM)

Zelos wrote:

•If you have a really fast slider velocity, it is suggested that you do not use a tick rate of 4.

I'm totally against Tick Rate = 4. In CTB it means that if you drop a single droplet in a slider, you miss the combo, as tick rate = 4 makes every droplet a big droplet (In this case FC = SS).
TR between 0,5 - 2 should be fine imo.

And finally a suggestion. As osu! standard and taiko have names for their own difficulties (Easy/Normal/Hard/Insane - Kantan/Futsuu/Muzukashii/Oni)... why don't we give specific names for CTB difficulties?

Deif wrote:

why don't we give specific names for CTB difficulties?

Someone grab the difficulty names from that one game - oh wait, they're similar anyway. hurp

I'm cool with this, supporting :3

the conversion between standard maps to ctb maps is considerably simpler and much more straightforward than standard to taiko

while you've laid out some interesting points regarding ctb only patterns, it is simply just too much of a fringe case to implement. taiko maps are allowed simply because standard osu maps do not convert intrinsically well to taiko maps due to them being a completely different game style entirely (from movement precision to rhythm precision). ctb was designed to run interchangeably with standard maps, and i firmly believe that is the way things will be until the ctb community develops a meta which is strong enough to make us consider otherwise.

however, perhaps we could investigate enabling ranked scores on certain approval maps where ctb difficulty is seen to be equal/greater to that of standard in order to bolster competition a little

that's just my view on it anyway

The meta for catch the beat players is largely based in languages other than english (chinese, korean, and japanese players have a much higher concentration of ctb players to standard than, say, england or the united states) while those other-native-language players most likely do not speak english well enough to formulate something like this. If you take a look at some of the ctb threads in other languages you'll see they're far more involved and don't have the "LOL CTB IS RETARDED" mentality that 90% of english-native (or certain russians i won't mention) osu! players have.

Let me reverse the question then, is there any reason why a CTB map shouldn't be playable in osu! standard?, and before you reply please provide something other than the fact that the Y axys on CTB can be ignored because that's just plain lazyness, as far as i know ryuuta moves slower than regular mouse movement, since the mouse can move as fast as your hand, i still haven't seen anything that can make a CTB map unplayable on osu! standard

Its like Ephemeral said, the conversion between Standard and CTB modes are alike to the point they are almost the same. It's more so about how the standard map is created. A properly made "normal" map can have the balance to be used in all 3 modes. But putting Taiko aside because of how the format is, I really can't see ctb maps being rankable anytime soon since it can be equally just as good with the map in standard mode as long as it is properly mapped (and tested).

Another thing, players/modders SHOULD NEVER bash against another mode because they feel it "sucks" or "too easy" or "noobish". Its really childish to think so since every mode has its ups, downs, and technical stuff.

Last, to even attempt to make ctb rankable, guidelines and rules must be made for it as well which can be a complicated process of trial and error and has to be proven to be worth having its own direction of being ranked/approved. Though, I didn't make the game myself either but as far as I see like I said, Standard and CTB share almost the same platform of note placement. Its just how the mapper chooses to make the map and its "focus" (i.e. - Should I care about how the map plays in Taiko? Are the speed ups and slow downs going to mess with how CTB move?). Its just my thoughts on it honestly, not something set to stone. But still, its better to think about these things and how to address it than to only complain and do nothing about it.

Adding my two cents:
Why don't you guys suggest improvements to the CtB mode? I think it'd be fun to see more stuff implemented on the mode than just moving the plate from left to right.
Maybe by doing so, the game modes (or how they translate into each other when switching) will be different enough to make CtB specific maps rankeable on their own (not that I agree with that anyways).

So :P?

There are already many mappers that make osu maps with the express thought of them being enjoyable on catch the beat (just as often they worry about taiko as well) as well, however, these mappers are far and in between. Something like a ctb-only diff would be rather rare comparatively speaking since it's very possible to make a good CtB map with exclusively standard, however, it is not always feasible to make a pattern that follows the music, fits the mapping style used before, and fits both standard and CtB

whymeman: what's sad is that is exactly what many, many players and mappers, especially english-speakers, think about catch the beat. CtB has a very intuitive playing curve, you can start right off on insanes and do perfectly fine compared to other modes which leads to people thinking that it "is too easy" and "caters only to noobs / unskilled / can't-handle-the-other-modes" players, but it has just as much of a difficulty curve and skill plateau as standard or taiko, and just like the other two mods the number of players that have reached that plateau are increasing by the day.

Krisom: the main improvements that can be made to catch the beat as-is are, in order of severity:
> Improved hyperfruit coding (very low priority since only stupid crap bugs out the hyperfruit)
> Increased visibility on spinner fruits
> Clearer hitboxes for the notes (this can be skinned currently, actually)
> Make tiny droplets worth something. I can completely ignore these and get a B on a map and get a way higher score than an S if i catch more spinner fruits than him.

"just moving the plate left and right" is an opinion from someone that has not played the game mode past a vague interest.


These are mostly just idle thoughts, nobody actually expects ctb to become rankable since peppy is of the 90%, or seems to have grown into that sector.

Those are mostly bug fixes, what I'm proposing is a change (for minor it is) on the game mode to make it more original at the moment of converting standar to CtB (pretty much like taiko). You guys are the players so you should eb intrested on new stuff (like players of standard mode have been asking for the return of hold sliders, by example)
EDIT:
Good example of a good idea

Weezy wrote:

Only thing that can really be improved in my eyes are the spinners, maybe change the whole concept because right now ANYONE can pass a spinner (standard and taiko you can slip up.) Right now spinners are easy, an idiot can manage to catch falling fruits :T.

EDIT 2: I think I might also give my (other) 2 cents. Why not propose that the speed-ups / slow-downs affect smoething in-gameplay, like, the movement of the plate? Think of it, a slowdown comes near, a warning appears, the plate turns (by exaple) blue and you cannot move it as fast as you used to while the fruits fall slower and their placement is much closer. Wouldn't that be cool?

Shiirn wrote:

"just moving the plate left and right" is an opinion from someone that has not played the game mode past a vague interest.

Now, you're assuming stuff and being rude wihout a good reason.
Also, drop those "Oh all the english speakers hate CtB" argument, it makes you look paranoic :> (and it only enlarges a stupid western/eastern division I've never cared about and I think it's pretty silly to begin with)

Krisom wrote:

Adding my two cents:
Why don't you guys suggest improvements to the CtB mode? I think it'd be fun to see more stuff implemented on the mode than just moving the plate from left to right.
Maybe by doing so, the game modes (or how they translate into each other when switching) will be different enough to make CtB specific maps rankeable on their own (not that I agree with that anyways).

So ?

Only thing that can really be improved in my eyes are the spinners, maybe change the whole concept because right now ANYONE can pass a spinner (standard and taiko you can slip up.) Right now spinners are easy, an idiot can manage to catch falling fruits :T.

I do approve of what you guys are doing and agree fully on the set guidelines that has been made, but as stated before, standard maps play fine in CTB, unlike taiko where most standard maps are crap. That to me is whats stopping CTB maps on getting ranked (and the guidelines of course.) If someone can find a legit argument onto why standard maps don't play well on CTB, sadly to say I don't see it getting ranked :T

BUT if it happens to get ranked, I will jump on the idea and start making CTB maps for future projects! Hell I'll start now and add em to my map info

Unless you can answer my previous question with undeniable proof i don't think this will get very far, specially since you can focus on making a CTB diff that's playable on Standard gameplay as well.

Krisom wrote:

EDIT 2: I think I might also give my (other) 2 cents. Why not propose that the speed-ups / slow-downs affect smoething in-gameplay, like, the movement of the plate? Think of it, a slowdown comes near, a warning appears, the plate turns (by exaple) blue and you cannot move it as fast as you used to while the fruits fall slower and their placement is much closer. Wouldn't that be cool?

Now, you're assuming stuff and being rude wihout a good reason.
Also, drop those "Oh all the english speakers hate CtB" argument, it makes you look paranoic :>

1. Not really, that's akin to forcing the halftime mod for certain sections. Fruits falling slower would be like AR changes, which are very unreadable anyway (see taiko)

2. I'm sorry if I offended you, but it's the truth. I'm certain it's very much the same if i said "standard is simple, you just move your mouse and click circles"

Also weezy, whymeman has a point - spinners have their place as a purely bonus score item, while it's impossible to "fail" a spinner on catch the beat, you also do not gain combos or any formal, flat rate of score like you do in standard.

Sakura Hana wrote:

Let me reverse the question then, is there any reason why a CTB map shouldn't be playable in osu! standard?, and before you reply please provide something other than the fact that the Y axys on CTB can be ignored because that's just plain lazyness, as far as i know ryuuta moves slower than regular mouse movement, since the mouse can move as fast as your hand, i still haven't seen anything that can make a CTB map unplayable on osu! standard

Because hyperfruits can imply much, much harder jumps. Because you don't need to click. Because, and this is an example for the hyperfruits, i've made a simple ctb difficulty for the lolz that had a 1/8th stream at the end with a 1/4 hyperfruit jump across the entire screen. It played brilliantly on CtB (this was kanon-kanon, by the way) but was outright impossible for any human player (really, a 18x jump?) on standard.
For an example of the "don't need to click" example, take a look at chipscape. It needs a lot of clicking. Compare how many people easily FC chipscape on ctb. This is not because it is an easy map, but because it's a lot more possible to pass because...you're not clicking. This just means that streamier fuckfests are more viable on ctb.

Another thing.... don't point out that dislikes are a region biased matter.

Sakura Hana wrote:

Let me reverse the question then, is there any reason why a CTB map shouldn't be playable in osu! standard?, and before you reply please provide something other than the fact that the Y axys on CTB can be ignored because that's just plain lazyness, as far as i know ryuuta moves slower than regular mouse movement, since the mouse can move as fast as your hand, i still haven't seen anything that can make a CTB map unplayable on osu! standard

PLZ....look at the replies ....
I say it already there is a bug jump appear which standard can make it all 300's but CTB you only can get all misses...
I dont want to say it again and again so plz refer to my previous reply..


Also, there is an interesting thing happen.
Bloody tears(by Gabi)
plz look at this map, anything you need to do is turn on the Hard Rock and Auto mod and watch.
The hyperdash throw away the plate to make the plate which auto controls miss the note..
Is it a bug or just make it on purpose?

whymeman wrote:

"Only thing that can really be improved in my eyes are the spinners, maybe change the whole concept because right now ANYONE can pass a spinner (standard and taiko you can slip up.) Right now spinners are easy, an idiot can manage to catch falling fruits :T. "

Why change something that isn't broken and is already balanced? The "spinners" in CTB are converted into bonus drops which also allows a difference in player scores. Not only that, HOW are you going to catch all of the bonus drops, especially in short spinners?

I don't see how you could really change up the spinner in CTB anyway.

Weezy wrote:

If someone can find a legit argument onto why standard maps don't play well on CTB, sadly to say I don't see it getting ranked :T

Something Ephemeral said way back is that "A good insane will translate to a good CTB"
There are quite a few amazing insanes that do not translate as good to CTB.

I can only think of a few insanes that are equally hard for standard and CTB players.

ZHSteven wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

Let me reverse the question then, is there any reason why a CTB map shouldn't be playable in osu! standard?, and before you reply please provide something other than the fact that the Y axys on CTB can be ignored because that's just plain lazyness, as far as i know ryuuta moves slower than regular mouse movement, since the mouse can move as fast as your hand, i still haven't seen anything that can make a CTB map unplayable on osu! standard

PLZ....look at the replies ....
I say it already there is a bug jump appear which standard can make it all 300's but CTB you only can get all misses...
I dont want to say it again and again so plz refer to my previous reply..

And it looks like you didnt understand the question, i didnt ask if a standard diff can be translated into CTB, i asked if a CTB diff can be translated into standard

Krisom wrote:

Adding my two cents:
Why don't you guys suggest improvements to the CtB mode? I think it'd be fun to see more stuff implemented on the mode than just moving the plate from left to right.
Maybe by doing so, the game modes (or how they translate into each other when switching) will be different enough to make CtB specific maps rankeable on their own (not that I agree with that anyways).

So ?

I can not press more buttons because I only play with my left hand.

Sakura Hana wrote:

And it looks like you didnt understand the question, i didnt ask if a standard diff can be translated into CTB, i asked if a CTB diff can be translated into standard

first of all, I appologize that I havent recive your real meaning of the question.
I am not a native English speaker, so I may get misunderstanding of anying...forgiven me

So, I am thinking you are asking the unique patterns that CTB map can have but it is ugly and unplayable when it plays in osu?

if so, that will be my answer:

I think, unplayable means the map is totally cannot play, even auto cannot Full combo it. If that is the point, I can only say all the ctb patterns can be transfer into osu! standard so far as I know.

But if you are talking about the enjoyable of a map, I think I can give you some opinions. In ctb map, the most important patten is jump. How well you can put the jump, and how interesting you can put the jump will be the judge of a good ctb map. But sometime, these kind of jump cannot make standard enjoyable, because the jump could be sudden and extremely fast when playing in standard.

Please look at this map of mine: Kotoko- wing my way. This is my first map and first try of make ctb map. I know this is not good enough but I am sure there is a lot of CTB player enjoy it. In the map, I placed a lot of jumps to make it enjoyable and fun in CTB mode. In order to make it rankable, I tried so much time to make it an insane osu! standard diff but failed. Not only the patterns of max jump put in osu standard is boring and stupid, but also the high-speed small jump will make a lot of people wants to slap my face..

In my mapping experince, I think there is still some patterns that fit CTB mode very well, but is not good in standard mode.

"I think, unplayable means the map is totally cannot play, even auto cannot Full combo it. If that is the point, I can only say all the ctb patterns can be transfer into osu! standard so far as I know."

Please don't use Auto as a "true" guideline of what is rankable or not. Its not just the fact of the map giving the player the chance of having a full combo, but also how the maps are made as well (i.e.- Using 1/8 notes on a +200 BPM song to "make it harder"). Rules and guidelines are also built from common sense as well. This is why some mappers and modders bump heads often because of what they feel is rankable or not (also due to the lack of understanding).

whymeman wrote:

"I think, unplayable means the map is totally cannot play, even auto cannot Full combo it. If that is the point, I can only say all the ctb patterns can be transfer into osu! standard so far as I know."

Please don't use Auto as a "true" guideline of what is rankable or not. Its not just the fact of the map giving the player the chance of having a full combo, but also how the maps are made as well (i.e.- Using 1/8 notes on a +200 BPM song to "make it harder"). Rules and guidelines are also built from common sense as well. This is why some mappers and modders bump heads often because of what they feel is rankable or not.

pretty much this.

whymeman wrote:

"I think, unplayable means the map is totally cannot play, even auto cannot Full combo it. If that is the point, I can only say all the ctb patterns can be transfer into osu! standard so far as I know."

Please don't use Auto as a "true" guideline of what is rankable or not. Its not just the fact of the map giving the player the chance of having a full combo, but also how the maps are made as well (i.e.- Using 1/8 notes on a +200 BPM song to "make it harder"). Rules and guidelines are also built from common sense as well. This is why some mappers and modders bump heads often because of what they feel is rankable or not (also due to the lack of understanding).

That is my fault...I misunderstand the question again...TAT

So please just ignore that point...

using 1/8 on anything over 140 BPM shouldn't be allowed. It's certainly possible to do, but seriously, so few people can do it accurately there's no point.

Also, There should be a second auto mode for CTB: the current one which hits everything on spinners and can show the true "maximum" point value, even though that score is entirely unattainable, and another which can't move faster than ryuuta. Make ryuuta move at his maximum speed all the time, and starts to move to catch the next note at the last possible second to catch the fruit on the very edge of the plate. Or Center, since that would give some leeway. If auto 2 can't SS it, the map is unrankable (there are other stipulations, but this would be a very easy way to check to see if the most awesome player ever (ie a robot) could pass it).

Personally I don't have a problem with anything that is theoretically possible. There is always someone crazy enough to figure out how to do it.

But then it still wouldn't be "humanly possible" right? Its better to do extensive testing than to use something to cut corners since even if Auto can "find" the playability problems, it doesn't mean its going to find everything for you.

Just because osu can do it, doesn't really mean a human can.

So yeah like whymeman said, thorough testing is probably the best answer.

Although I feel like this is sort of flowing off topic.

Support, but I would love some impossible CtB maps. Mainly verdi mixes. ;x

I'm almost sure that this thread has just failed.

Oh well.