it's not like the ranked section will become better with you posting something like that lolRiP46 wrote:
so, to put it simply, it's like this:
man, I'm so lazy to do hit sound for this map. I know, let's propose RC to remove hit sound.
man, I'm so lazy to do a full spread for this map. I know, let's propose RC to remove the spread.
very cool
why even bother to compare my maps with other map. I push my map to fulfill my own pleasure to have a ranked map of the song that I like not for making the ranked section become better.AncuL wrote:
it's not like the ranked section will become better with you posting something like that lol
+ do you really think your ranked ENHI sets require more effort than the one-diff maps currently staying in graveyard
This is not really concerning, especially considering that there are maps made specifically for a tournament (this is true for any mode).abraker wrote:
There is a concerning number of unranked maps being used in mania tournaments. See first bullet point as to why.
These replies ignore the entirety of the conversation happened in this thread and this github post.RiP46 wrote:
=> Mapper is too lazy. Can always ask for GD from someone else.
"Graveyard was never intended to be permanent storage."
=> Just make a pack of your graveyarded map then. Can always update it for new map later.
"Loved was never supposed to be a dump of maps that couldn't make it to ranked"
=> You don't need to pass all the map to loved section. nobody ask you to pass all the map too.
"There is a concerning number of unranked maps being used in mania tournaments. See first bullet point as to why."
=> I don't see any problem with this.
How do these stats make this remotely ok? This is not ok. They are made specifically for tournaments, but they are barred from ranking because the mapper would never bother to make additional diffs to meet the criteria. Otherwise they are quality maps, and it's proven they are quality by being chosen to be used for osu! official tournament.McEndu wrote:
This is not really concerning, especially considering that there are maps made specifically for a tournament (this is true for any mode).
Also statistics:
Out of the 20 maps used in OWC 2020 Grand Finals, 19 maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Out of the 16 maps used in TWC 2021 Grand Finals, 13 maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Out of the 16 maps used in CWC 2021 Grand Finals, 12 maps were not ranked during the tournament, and the rest are converts from osu! (standard).
Out of the 17 maps used in MWC4K 2021 Finals series, all maps were not ranked during the tournament.
tournament maps aren't ranked because the mappers simply aren't interested in pushing them for ranked. among these are maps that feature rates (unrankable due to multiple mp3s) and a lot of marathon maps that never got ranked (this has nothing to do with spread requirements either).abraker wrote:
How do these stats make this remotely ok? This is not ok. They are made specifically for tournaments, but they are barred from ranking because the mapper would never bother to make additional diffs to meet the criteria. Otherwise they are quality maps, and it's proven they are quality by being chosen to be used for osu! official tournament.
The problem is not that tournament maps aren't ranked, it's that by wiping the graveyard we would essentially be wiping tournament content and be left with only the more recent stuff. Picking maps for a tournament is already hard enough as is, and also, willfully wiping quality content is not the right way to go imo.RiP46 wrote:
"There is a concerning number of unranked maps being used in mania tournaments. See first bullet point as to why."
=> I don't see any problem with this.
Maybe these mappers add those rates and don't try to push it for ranked because they already know that in current circumstances their maps can't be ranked, so at tjis point they don't really care anymore about the RC.Scotty wrote:
tournament maps aren't ranked because the mappers simply aren't interested in pushing them for ranked. among these are maps that feature rates (unrankable due to multiple mp3s) and a lot of marathon maps that never got ranked (this has nothing to do with spread requirements either).
If mappers were lazy they wouldn't map at all.RiP46 wrote:
so, to put it simply, it's like this:
man, I'm so lazy to do hit sound for this map. I know, let's propose RC to remove hit sound.
man, I'm so lazy to do a full spread for this map. I know, let's propose RC to remove the spread.
ratioRiP46 wrote:
so, to put it simply, it's like this:
man, I'm so lazy to do hit sound for this map. I know, let's propose RC to remove hit sound.
man, I'm so lazy to do a full spread for this map. I know, let's propose RC to remove the spread.
very cool
========
"Many good maps by various mappers are being left in graveyard because mappers refuse to map difficulties they don't feel like doing."
=> Mapper is too lazy. Can always ask for GD from someone else.
"Graveyard was never intended to be permanent storage."
=> Just make a pack of your graveyarded map then. Can always update it for new map later.
"Loved was never supposed to be a dump of maps that couldn't make it to ranked"
=> You don't need to pass all the map to loved section. nobody ask you to pass all the map too.
"There is a concerning number of unranked maps being used in mania tournaments. See first bullet point as to why."
=> I don't see any problem with this.
while the lower diffs don't need as much effort as the top diff, they do need effort to be doneAncuL wrote:
do you really think your ranked ENHI sets require more effort than the one-diff maps currently staying in graveyard
for now, you can just have a set that's just the diff without rates and the other one with rates. some people regularly do thisScotty wrote:
that feature rates
Pretty sure McEndu was showing how tournament maps not being ranked is a problem not only for mania. However, it seems like other modes didn't want this change / it is not beneficial to them as much as ours.abraker wrote:
How do these stats make this remotely ok? This is not ok. They are made specifically for tournaments, but they are barred from ranking because the mapper would never bother to make additional diffs to meet the criteria. Otherwise they are quality maps, and it's proven they are quality by being chosen to be used for osu! official tournament.McEndu wrote:
This is not really concerning, especially considering that there are maps made specifically for a tournament (this is true for any mode).
Also statistics:
Out of the 20 maps used in OWC 2020 Grand Finals, 19 maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Out of the 16 maps used in TWC 2021 Grand Finals, 13 maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Out of the 16 maps used in CWC 2021 Grand Finals, 12 maps were not ranked during the tournament, and the rest are converts from osu! (standard).
Out of the 17 maps used in MWC4K 2021 Finals series, all maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Also agree with this. I think spread is just a part of the problem (which we can decided on changes based on this discussion). Another part is that we have to show tournament mappers somehow that our environment is willing to help their maps in the ranking process (I think currently Komirin and RandomeLoL are doing a very good job at contacting the tournament mappers for pushing their sets to the ranked section. However, community effort is still really needed). But that's another issue to be discussed.AncuL wrote:
The issue of tournament maps closely relate to my first question on the discussion thread. afaik tournament maps don't get pushed to ranked not because of the lack of spread, but because of how disconnected (the mappers think) they are to the ranked section overall, especially on the higher ends of the tournament poolsfor now, you can just have a set that's just the diff without rates and the other one with rates. some people regularly do thisScotty wrote:
that feature rates
"Not ranked during the tournament" is not "currently not ranked"; The stats also include maps that are ranked after the tournament concludes.[Ping] wrote:
Pretty sure McEndu was showing how tournament maps not being ranked is a problem not only for mania. However, it seems like other modes didn't want this change / it is not beneficial to them as much as ours.abraker wrote:
How do these stats make this remotely ok? This is not ok. They are made specifically for tournaments, but they are barred from ranking because the mapper would never bother to make additional diffs to meet the criteria. Otherwise they are quality maps, and it's proven they are quality by being chosen to be used for osu! official tournament.McEndu wrote:
This is not really concerning, especially considering that there are maps made specifically for a tournament (this is true for any mode).
Also statistics:
Out of the 20 maps used in OWC 2020 Grand Finals, 19 maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Out of the 16 maps used in TWC 2021 Grand Finals, 13 maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Out of the 16 maps used in CWC 2021 Grand Finals, 12 maps were not ranked during the tournament, and the rest are converts from osu! (standard).
Out of the 17 maps used in MWC4K 2021 Finals series, all maps were not ranked during the tournament.
It is understandable if the maps were not ranked for the tournament. The tragedy is for the maps to be left graveyarded way after the tournament. So here are the current stats, and I'm excluding maps that were loved since in this count:McEndu wrote:
"Not ranked during the tournament" is not "currently not ranked"; The stats also include maps that are ranked after the tournament concludes.[Ping] wrote:
Pretty sure McEndu was showing how tournament maps not being ranked is a problem not only for mania. However, it seems like other modes didn't want this change / it is not beneficial to them as much as ours.abraker wrote:
How do these stats make this remotely ok? This is not ok. They are made specifically for tournaments, but they are barred from ranking because the mapper would never bother to make additional diffs to meet the criteria. Otherwise they are quality maps, and it's proven they are quality by being chosen to be used for osu! official tournament.McEndu wrote:
This is not really concerning, especially considering that there are maps made specifically for a tournament (this is true for any mode).
Also statistics:
Out of the 20 maps used in OWC 2020 Grand Finals, 19 maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Out of the 16 maps used in TWC 2021 Grand Finals, 13 maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Out of the 16 maps used in CWC 2021 Grand Finals, 12 maps were not ranked during the tournament, and the rest are converts from osu! (standard).
Out of the 17 maps used in MWC4K 2021 Finals series, all maps were not ranked during the tournament.
Oh had to check the dates oops. Let's use the 2020 one then-mint- wrote:
uh its almost like mwc just finished
This is kind of the main point, from my view. osu! as a game looks to be staying around for an absurdly long time into the future, so even if they turned out to be disasterous, trying out the changes for a mere 1-2 months wouldn't do much harm over the long run. On the flip side, if they turn out to be a success and they are kept, the benefits would last for the many years to come.[LS]Ham wrote:
I feel like everyone here is theorizing about what would or wouldn't happen and the only way to really know is to have a test trial for a few months
fwiw as someone who dabbles into the Quaver community also, I think it is partially because of what the mappers are trying to appeal to, which is slightly different from mania. However, I think this is still somewhat a pretty good point but we cannot really conclude anything until things are being tried / implemented outJawbraiker wrote:
My opinion on this is that it would be a good change,
I will take the game quaver as an example. Quavers RC would state that a map only needs 2+ diffs if the map is under 2:29. difficulty requirements don't apply.
Even though those requirements are so low the game still gets enough low and high diff maps submitted.
Now if we look at osu!mania. the community is much bigger so there will be much more maps. and this is just one change. It wont mean that the quality of the maps would go down since every other RC would still apply. This just gives opportunity to mappers to more easily rank smaller maps/mapsets
also partially because quaver has rates, so if you want a diff to be easier or harder, you just put it on a rate. no need to incentivize different difficulty levels[Ping] wrote:
fwiw as someone who dabbles into the Quaver community also, I think it is partially because of what the mappers are trying to appeal to, which is slightly different from mania. However, I think this is still somewhat a pretty good point but we cannot really conclude anything until things are being tried / implemented outJawbraiker wrote:
My opinion on this is that it would be a good change,
I will take the game quaver as an example. Quavers RC would state that a map only needs 2+ diffs if the map is under 2:29. difficulty requirements don't apply.
Even though those requirements are so low the game still gets enough low and high diff maps submitted.
Now if we look at osu!mania. the community is much bigger so there will be much more maps. and this is just one change. It wont mean that the quality of the maps would go down since every other RC would still apply. This just gives opportunity to mappers to more easily rank smaller maps/mapsets
You can't call a mapper lazy if they are making over a hundred single difficulty maps. All effort and focus goes into making each difficulty great. Ranked is missing out on many many good maps because of this. osu! is not the only game that has people making maps. Mappers from stepmania made many great maps. Mappers who made those maps might be willing to rank if criteria allowed them to._VianK_ wrote:
What i want to said for this quote is the ranked section is something osu! Official content for his comunity. If you felt too lazy to do it, Then don't do it. You shouldn't change the rule for coz of your lazinees. If you already felt that was too painfull you too finished one time, then take a break and finish it in next section. As a mapper no one ask US for make a chart first, we just do it coz we love it without any payment.
As a graveyard mapper you should be concerned that the graveyard section was supposed to be subject to map purging every few years.Rikuka wrote:
trust me , as an graveyarded mapper , making ultra hard diff is much easier than easy diff
abraker wrote:
You can't call a mapper lazy if they are making over a hundred single difficulty maps. All effort and focus goes into making each difficulty great. Ranked is missing out on many many good maps because of this. osu! is not the only game that has people making maps. Mappers from stepmania made many great maps. Mappers who made those maps might be willing to rank if criteria allowed them to._VianK_ wrote:
What i want to said for this quote is the ranked section is something osu! Official content for his comunity. If you felt too lazy to do it, Then don't do it. You shouldn't change the rule for coz of your lazinees. If you already felt that was too painfull you too finished one time, then take a break and finish it in next section. As a mapper no one ask US for make a chart first, we just do it coz we love it without any payment.
The point of this is mainly because this was said by peppy that inactive graveyard maps will slowly being deleted - which is why this discussion is very much needed to preserve charts both ported from stepmania and made in osu! to continue staying on the website._VianK_ wrote:
abraker wrote:
You can't call a mapper lazy if they are making over a hundred single difficulty maps. All effort and focus goes into making each difficulty great. Ranked is missing out on many many good maps because of this. osu! is not the only game that has people making maps. Mappers from stepmania made many great maps. Mappers who made those maps might be willing to rank if criteria allowed them to._VianK_ wrote:
What i want to said for this quote is the ranked section is something osu! Official content for his comunity. If you felt too lazy to do it, Then don't do it. You shouldn't change the rule for coz of your lazinees. If you already felt that was too painfull you too finished one time, then take a break and finish it in next section. As a mapper no one ask US for make a chart first, we just do it coz we love it without any payment.
Who said the RC not allowed them?
If they want to rank their map on here, they have to study before how the system works here, not changing system for them. Actually word "lost" isn't really accurate since you can still play it even that was in the graveyard. Honestly i was really like map from stepmania chart too, but doing this for them (?) I think you go too far.
I guees you got the point.
[Ping] wrote:
The point of this is mainly because this was said by peppy that inactive graveyard maps will slowly being deleted - which is why this discussion is very much needed to preserve charts both ported from stepmania and made in osu! to continue staying on the website._VianK_ wrote:
abraker wrote:
You can't call a mapper lazy if they are making over a hundred single difficulty maps. All effort and focus goes into making each difficulty great. Ranked is missing out on many many good maps because of this. osu! is not the only game that has people making maps. Mappers from stepmania made many great maps. Mappers who made those maps might be willing to rank if criteria allowed them to._VianK_ wrote:
What i want to said for this quote is the ranked section is something osu! Official content for his comunity. If you felt too lazy to do it, Then don't do it. You shouldn't change the rule for coz of your lazinees. If you already felt that was too painfull you too finished one time, then take a break and finish it in next section. As a mapper no one ask US for make a chart first, we just do it coz we love it without any payment.
Who said the RC not allowed them?
If they want to rank their map on here, they have to study before how the system works here, not changing system for them. Actually word "lost" isn't really accurate since you can still play it even that was in the graveyard. Honestly i was really like map from stepmania chart too, but doing this for them (?) I think you go too far.
I guees you got the point.
RC does not allow them because those maps require full spreads. Those creators dont care about creating additional difficulties, so those difficulties will never be made. Even asking for gd wont happen because it's based on principle. Despite this, that doesnt make the maps themselves any worse. There are great maps we are loosing out on only because of this._VianK_ wrote:
abraker wrote:
You can't call a mapper lazy if they are making over a hundred single difficulty maps. All effort and focus goes into making each difficulty great. Ranked is missing out on many many good maps because of this. osu! is not the only game that has people making maps. Mappers from stepmania made many great maps. Mappers who made those maps might be willing to rank if criteria allowed them to._VianK_ wrote:
What i want to said for this quote is the ranked section is something osu! Official content for his comunity. If you felt too lazy to do it, Then don't do it. You shouldn't change the rule for coz of your lazinees. If you already felt that was too painfull you too finished one time, then take a break and finish it in next section. As a mapper no one ask US for make a chart first, we just do it coz we love it without any payment.
Who said the RC not allowed them?
If they want to rank their map on here, they have to study before how the system works here, not changing system for them. Actually word "lost" isn't really accurate since you can still play it even that was in the graveyard. Honestly i was really like map from stepmania chart too, but doing this for them (?) I think you go too far.
I guees you got the point.
See?abraker wrote:
RC does not allow them because those maps require full spreads. Those creators dont care about creating additional difficulties, so those difficulties will never be made. Even asking for gd wont happen because it's based on principle. Despite this, that doesnt make the maps themselves any worse. There are great maps we are loosing out on only because of this._VianK_ wrote:
abraker wrote:
You can't call a mapper lazy if they are making over a hundred single difficulty maps. All effort and focus goes into making each difficulty great. Ranked is missing out on many many good maps because of this. osu! is not the only game that has people making maps. Mappers from stepmania made many great maps. Mappers who made those maps might be willing to rank if criteria allowed them to._VianK_ wrote:
What i want to said for this quote is the ranked section is something osu! Official content for his comunity. If you felt too lazy to do it, Then don't do it. You shouldn't change the rule for coz of your lazinees. If you already felt that was too painfull you too finished one time, then take a break and finish it in next section. As a mapper no one ask US for make a chart first, we just do it coz we love it without any payment.
Who said the RC not allowed them?
If they want to rank their map on here, they have to study before how the system works here, not changing system for them. Actually word "lost" isn't really accurate since you can still play it even that was in the graveyard. Honestly i was really like map from stepmania chart too, but doing this for them (?) I think you go too far.
I guees you got the point.
They are not "lost" now, but they will be lost in future if maps are left graveyarded. Peppy plans on turning on map purging sometime, and that will wipe a significant portion of those maps.
Why the hell are we judging quality by quantity and not by the enjoyability of individual difficulties themselves? Why osu so backwards ??_VianK_ wrote:
[Ping] wrote:
The point of this is mainly because this was said by peppy that inactive graveyard maps will slowly being deleted - which is why this discussion is very much needed to preserve charts both ported from stepmania and made in osu! to continue staying on the website._VianK_ wrote:
abraker wrote:
You can't call a mapper lazy if they are making over a hundred single difficulty maps. All effort and focus goes into making each difficulty great. Ranked is missing out on many many good maps because of this. osu! is not the only game that has people making maps. Mappers from stepmania made many great maps. Mappers who made those maps might be willing to rank if criteria allowed them to._VianK_ wrote:
What i want to said for this quote is the ranked section is something osu! Official content for his comunity. If you felt too lazy to do it, Then don't do it. You shouldn't change the rule for coz of your lazinees. If you already felt that was too painfull you too finished one time, then take a break and finish it in next section. As a mapper no one ask US for make a chart first, we just do it coz we love it without any payment.
Who said the RC not allowed them?
If they want to rank their map on here, they have to study before how the system works here, not changing system for them. Actually word "lost" isn't really accurate since you can still play it even that was in the graveyard. Honestly i was really like map from stepmania chart too, but doing this for them (?) I think you go too far.
I guees you got the point.
I guess this thing is not really the solution it's like this community trying to sacrifice the standard of quality from the ranket set just for save chart from the other VSRG. If that was created for stepmania, that was for stepmania then. But if that was created for osu! Then it was for Osu!. Both of the game have their own standard. You cannot lowering this VSRG standard just coz for saving other converted other VSRG. Tbh allowing for just using hitnormal already drop the ranked section quality for mania dropped so far. So please, don't totally ruin it.
What? Creators care that people enjoy the maps they make. It's a dedicated craft. They dont care making maps to fill some silly criteria._VianK_ wrote:
See? If the creator it self don't care. Why you have to sacrifice our standard. Isn't really worthed to do.
Of course not. But don't forget if lower diff also have their own enjoyability, not only insane + + diff, if it cannot enjoyable for insane player, it means thats not for them, but for lower player. Thats why we have modding section. Our modder help to improve that thing (unless your mod just only based on RC). Thats make o!m different with Stepmania, we have modding section. But in stepmania once it done, it just need to submitted in somewhere else.abraker wrote:
Why the hell are we judging quality by quantity and not by the enjoyability of individual difficulties themselves? Why osu so backwards ??_VianK_ wrote:
[Ping] wrote:
The point of this is mainly because this was said by peppy that inactive graveyard maps will slowly being deleted - which is why this discussion is very much needed to preserve charts both ported from stepmania and made in osu! to continue staying on the website._VianK_ wrote:
abraker wrote:
You can't call a mapper lazy if they are making over a hundred single difficulty maps. All effort and focus goes into making each difficulty great. Ranked is missing out on many many good maps because of this. osu! is not the only game that has people making maps. Mappers from stepmania made many great maps. Mappers who made those maps might be willing to rank if criteria allowed them to._VianK_ wrote:
What i want to said for this quote is the ranked section is something osu! Official content for his comunity. If you felt too lazy to do it, Then don't do it. You shouldn't change the rule for coz of your lazinees. If you already felt that was too painfull you too finished one time, then take a break and finish it in next section. As a mapper no one ask US for make a chart first, we just do it coz we love it without any payment.
Who said the RC not allowed them?
If they want to rank their map on here, they have to study before how the system works here, not changing system for them. Actually word "lost" isn't really accurate since you can still play it even that was in the graveyard. Honestly i was really like map from stepmania chart too, but doing this for them (?) I think you go too far.
I guees you got the point.
I guess this thing is not really the solution it's like this community trying to sacrifice the standard of quality from the ranket set just for save chart from the other VSRG. If that was created for stepmania, that was for stepmania then. But if that was created for osu! Then it was for Osu!. Both of the game have their own standard. You cannot lowering this VSRG standard just coz for saving other converted other VSRG. Tbh allowing for just using hitnormal already drop the ranked section quality for mania dropped so far. So please, don't totally ruin it.What? Creators care that people enjoy the maps they make. It's a dedicated craft. They dont care making maps to fill some silly criteria._VianK_ wrote:
See? If the creator it self don't care. Why you have to sacrifice our standard. Isn't really worthed to do.
Strongly agree with this.richardfeder wrote:
I think altering RC to salvage chart in graveyard doesn't sound quite right. We have a loved cataloger specifically for maps that doesn't quite fit RC but still deserve to be archived. If we want to quickly put all those maps in a permanent place then we might want to make loved more accessible to those maps, not trying to push them into ranked section. And to be honest I think with the help of lvd team that process might just be way shorter than letting bns who are overwhelmed by requests to manually check maps one by one.
RC is quite broken, but fixing RC isn't a suitable way to address this graveyard issue.
Most of RC has no relation to quality, and if you think that the ranked section has high quality standards, you just don't know what is in the ranked section because some ranked maps are... what they are_VianK_ wrote:
You cannot lowering this VSRG standard just coz for saving other converted other VSRG. Tbh allowing for just using hitnormal already drop the ranked section quality for mania dropped so far. So please, don't totally ruin it.
Hmmmm I wonder if you know that only few maps get loved every months, in October we got 16 new loved maps and that's a huge improvement compared to what we were used to, but we can't put everything into the loved section because there is just to many good classic maps that can't be ranked._VianK_ wrote:
Why not loved section?? That's perfectly suitable
Ventilo le vrai wrote:
Most of RC has no relation to quality, and if you think that the ranked section has high quality standards, you just don't know what is in the ranked section because some ranked maps are... what they are //_VianK_ wrote:
You cannot lowering this VSRG standard just coz for saving other converted other VSRG. Tbh allowing for just using hitnormal already drop the ranked section quality for mania dropped so far. So please, don't totally ruin it.Hmmmm I wonder if you know that only few maps get loved every months, in October we got 16 new loved maps and that's a huge improvement compared to what we were used to, but we can't put everything into the loved section because there is just to many good classic maps that can't be ranked._VianK_ wrote:
Why not loved section?? That's perfectly suitable
There's a lot to unpack here, but I feel like this is not the appropriate thread to be bringing up these issues. Nonetheless, I think it's important to bring up these claims as it's a popular opinion amongst the community that is so entirely misguided.Baiohazado wrote:
BNs are forced to have unreasonably high standards so that they don't lose their BN status. This negatively affects the community's perception of ranking a beatmap.
This confuses me, what unreasonably high standards are BNs held to? The requirements right now can allow you to easily get through just by having mediocre modding ability and a decent amount of activity. Becoming a BN and staying as one, is not that hard, and I am saying this as someone who recently joined this year. They have even made it more accessible for current BNs to stay IN the BNG or return later. In my and many other's experiences, it is not difficult to ask for feedback on your mods, ask for ways to improve and even seek guidance on learning such. There's even discord channels and entire programs dedicated to teaching mappers how to mod properly and how to improve to "BN quality level." If you think BNs are held to unreasonable standards, I'd like you to take a look at mods half of the BNG makes. I'd also like you to take a look at the ecosystem currently held in qualified -> rank and then reconsider what are these standards you speak of. At best, your claim is misguided and you failed to do much consideration of the current ranked ecosystem.Baiohazado wrote:
BNs are forced to have unreasonably high standards so that they don't lose their BN status. This negatively affects the community's perception of ranking a beatmap.
This paragraph seems to not take into account that Quaver's system has countless faults and a lot of their solutions to "osu!mania problems" are just band-aid fixes. I think it's ironic that you bring up Quaver's "focus on playability" since I've noticed over the years that Quaver's Ranking Supervisor team's goal is extremely inconsistent, even after talking directly with those who were involved with the team. The queue system of Quaver had it's fair share of issues as well, with it being extremely overloaded, charts taking MONTHS to even be looked at. Now imagine pulling that over to osu!mania, it would be even worse especially since there's a wider audience of people that migrate and start on osu!mania. I think it's obvious to tell that it would not end well.Baiohazado wrote:
I think the Quaver system is great example of what the ranking system can be...
richardfeder wrote:
If we want to quickly put all those maps in a permanent place then we might want to make loved more accessible to those maps
You can't possibly think that there will not be any new diffs for beginners to play. For that to happen_VianK_ wrote:
if this really applied, i hope it doesn't last longer. I very scary if the beginner player don't have any new ranked diff to play in the future. Thats why i strongly reject this proposal.
abraker wrote:
You can't possibly think that there will not be any new diffs for beginners to play. For that to happen_VianK_ wrote:
if this really applied, i hope it doesn't last longer. I very scary if the beginner player don't have any new ranked diff to play in the future. Thats why i strongly reject this proposal.Can we expect less easier difficulties? Yes. That's expected. Will there be a content drought of easier difficulties? Not likely.
- The BN need collectively agree to reject spreads that have diffs for beginner players. This is like wtf levels of not ever happening.
- All mappers need to never map difficulties for beginner players. This is very unlikely to happen. BN can also bias toward ranking easier diffs by prioritizing checks for spreads containing them.
there is a content drought of extreme diffs but it seems nobody seems to bat an eye for that
This has a lot of assumptions and generalizations. Not all spreads mappers create have lower diffs created solely to satisfy the criteria._VianK_ wrote:
abraker wrote:
You can't possibly think that there will not be any new diffs for beginners to play. For that to happen_VianK_ wrote:
if this really applied, i hope it doesn't last longer. I very scary if the beginner player don't have any new ranked diff to play in the future. Thats why i strongly reject this proposal.Can we expect less easier difficulties? Yes. That's expected. Will there be a content drought of easier difficulties? Not likely.
- The BN need collectively agree to reject spreads that have diffs for beginner players. This is like wtf levels of not ever happening.
- All mappers need to never map difficulties for beginner players. This is very unlikely to happen. BN can also bias toward ranking easier diffs by prioritizing checks for spreads containing them.
there is a content drought of extreme diffs but it seems nobody seems to bat an eye for that
I know, but actually happen is the lower diff is created just only for completing the rule since the most of mapper are enjoying to make higher diff only. If this is not exist anymore, they would said "why we should make lower diff? We can just go with single diff or why we should care of lower even we don't enjoy the map, etc." Because of that, the easier diff Will slowly disappeared and make this VSRG Will not beginner any friendly anymore.
Even the BN try to collecting to nominate full spread and single spread map, The ranked section in the future would be just dominated by single insane + diff. Since to find the map with the full of spread would be extremely rare.
I am very confused by the direction of where this is going. Nobody treats Loved as some dumpster I don't know where did you get this sentiment. I am merely stating that in my opinion, regarding the whole graveyard issue we have better alternatives other than reshaping RC just to accommodate these specific maps. And I believe that Lvd teams are way more flexible dealing with this type of maps and can act way quicker than BNs who are already very occupied.guden wrote:
Clearing up some misconceptions in the thread...Please stop treating Loved as if it's some dumpster for maps that couldn't make it to rank for XYZ reason. That's literally not the goal of loved, and I'm sure the loved team has reiterated this over and over again. Loved has it's OWN goal separate from Ranked, so treat them that way please.
I think some people in this thread failed to read the original threads as a lot of these topics are being brought up again despite already having previous discussion on such. An example is..richardfeder wrote:
If we want to quickly put all those maps in a permanent place then we might want to make loved more accessible to those maps
Peppy confirmed that this was his original goal for ranked though, and it's something that is still relatively true to this day. And again Loved has it's OWN separate goal aside from ranked, so stop treating them as if they are similar.
Let's see whats happen in the future then.abraker wrote:
This has a lot of assumptions and generalizations. Not all spreads mappers create have lower diffs created solely to satisfy the criteria._VianK_ wrote:
abraker wrote:
You can't possibly think that there will not be any new diffs for beginners to play. For that to happen_VianK_ wrote:
if this really applied, i hope it doesn't last longer. I very scary if the beginner player don't have any new ranked diff to play in the future. Thats why i strongly reject this proposal.Can we expect less easier difficulties? Yes. That's expected. Will there be a content drought of easier difficulties? Not likely.
- The BN need collectively agree to reject spreads that have diffs for beginner players. This is like wtf levels of not ever happening.
- All mappers need to never map difficulties for beginner players. This is very unlikely to happen. BN can also bias toward ranking easier diffs by prioritizing checks for spreads containing them.
there is a content drought of extreme diffs but it seems nobody seems to bat an eye for that
I know, but actually happen is the lower diff is created just only for completing the rule since the most of mapper are enjoying to make higher diff only. If this is not exist anymore, they would said "why we should make lower diff? We can just go with single diff or why we should care of lower even we don't enjoy the map, etc." Because of that, the easier diff Will slowly disappeared and make this VSRG Will not beginner any friendly anymore.
Even the BN try to collecting to nominate full spread and single spread map, The ranked section in the future would be just dominated by single insane + diff. Since to find the map with the full of spread would be extremely rare.
