Looks like this is cut and dry. I've made a pull request: https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/6128
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[Proposal - mania] Remove hitsound additions requirement
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Topic Starter
Might as well add to this despite the overwhelming consensus. In my experience, very few top osu!mania players use hitsounds at all, and those that do certainly don't rely on hitsound additions to determine what sounds in the song are being represented by the map or benefit from them in any other way. This is one of many carry-over features from standard imposed on osu!mania without knowledge or consideration of how it might affect the mode differently. Removing the requirement for hitsound additions from the ranking criteria is objectively the correct choice from any reasonable point of view.
This might be out of line or not fit with the thread, but I'd like to address Peppy directly: I have immense respect for the constant work and dedication you pour into osu! and your skill as a technical lead, but please put aside whatever personal feelings you might have towards what you think the game should be. osu! is no longer an EBA simulator; it is at the forefront of the competitive rhythm game scene and has millions of active players. There have been instances in the past of you insisting that a certain feature remain despite the vast majority of players (and nearly all experienced players) pushing against it, the most notable of which being with the scoreboard showing during breaks in multiplayer matches fiasco. This attitude of wanting osu! to be played a certain way generally comes across in how you develop osu!lazer overall. I understand the reasoning behind this and your personal feelings, but please listen to the players more. We know what we want and have more perspective on our side of the game than you do (the reverse is also true and I get that). Contrary to what you suggest in the PR, the correct choice is clear. Please do what is right and trust the players.
This might be out of line or not fit with the thread, but I'd like to address Peppy directly: I have immense respect for the constant work and dedication you pour into osu! and your skill as a technical lead, but please put aside whatever personal feelings you might have towards what you think the game should be. osu! is no longer an EBA simulator; it is at the forefront of the competitive rhythm game scene and has millions of active players. There have been instances in the past of you insisting that a certain feature remain despite the vast majority of players (and nearly all experienced players) pushing against it, the most notable of which being with the scoreboard showing during breaks in multiplayer matches fiasco. This attitude of wanting osu! to be played a certain way generally comes across in how you develop osu!lazer overall. I understand the reasoning behind this and your personal feelings, but please listen to the players more. We know what we want and have more perspective on our side of the game than you do (the reverse is also true and I get that). Contrary to what you suggest in the PR, the correct choice is clear. Please do what is right and trust the players.
Seeing the latest post on the github, I just wanted to say my opinions.
Taking future cross-mode converts/interactions into account is incredibly misguided, because to be frank - none of the mappers care about them. Mania mappers want to create and rank mania beatmaps, not mania beatmaps converting well to taiko. Other modes should have no influence over the mania ranking criteria.
Taking future cross-mode converts/interactions into account is incredibly misguided, because to be frank - none of the mappers care about them. Mania mappers want to create and rank mania beatmaps, not mania beatmaps converting well to taiko. Other modes should have no influence over the mania ranking criteria.
Quoting and resuming discussion from the pull request:
A map is meant for one mode only
In the overwhelming majority of cases, mappers will tailor their maps towards their targeted mode and should not be expected to know or fine tune their maps because of conversion output. This goes for all modes.
It is especially the case for osu!mania, where mappers/charters can come from very different upbringings and may not even use the osu! editor to work on their content. External editors made for other games will mostly not support hitsounds because the concept doesn't exist in those particular other games.
Player community consensus discourages playing converts
At least for osu!mania, osu!standard to osu!mania converts are heavily frowned upon in public multiplayer rooms and at least the majority of the top 50,000 will encourage newer players to learn osu!mania on actual, non-converted mania maps.
This is because in the current state of the conversion output, the resulting patterns can be incredibly awkward and are not representative of actually rankable mapping. Moreover, the long note/slider mechanics do not translate well from one mode to another, leaving gaps between releases and following notes where they would be expected to be jointed. This puts additional burden on the player to care about long note/slider releases, and these are only a few of many gripes about current conversion output.
There is enough content for all modes that we don't need converts anymore
To my understanding, cross-mode converts are a gateway to provide more content to the targeted mode. It is especially useful as a bootstrap for a new mode, where you need content to get players to play the mode and provide tailored content for the mode in return. However, all current modes are now years old with enough maturity, precedent and quantity of maps that converts should not be necessary anymore, especially not in a ranked manner.
For any mode, picking things you like from the ranked section should be far more than enough to get you going, and the star rating system, for all the flack that we like to give it, works pretty well for low values and as a starting point, and the spread requirement for ranked maps has worked wonders to provide beginner-friendly content. Therefore, we should strive in that content and give it proper homage rather than drown it with converts that do not conform to ranking meta.
One argument I see to keep converts anyway would be song/artist coverage for the casual player: providing the possibility to play converts for any map greatly increases the chances you can find something playable for your favorite song, or that one particular song. However, I would argue that providing a leaderboard for those converts should ideally not happen.
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The above is representative of my own interpretation and opinion as a fairly seasoned mania-only player, and an organizer of a beginner/intermediate friendly tournament featuring many cross-mode players, so I would be interested to hear more from cross-mode players. I know vernonlim is one of them, for what it's worth.
Hold off on merging this until I have a chance to read through the thread. It doesn't seem 100% cut and dry, so want to make sure I'm on the same page.A couple of arguments why coupling ranking criteria to cross-mode converts (and to an extent, having converts ranked in the first place) is misguided in my opinion
One thing to keep in mind is that hitsounds are used for converting maps, which in lazer would be used for conversions from mania to taiko, for instance. Food for thought that dropping the requirement would make such conversions no longer play well.
A map is meant for one mode only
In the overwhelming majority of cases, mappers will tailor their maps towards their targeted mode and should not be expected to know or fine tune their maps because of conversion output. This goes for all modes.
It is especially the case for osu!mania, where mappers/charters can come from very different upbringings and may not even use the osu! editor to work on their content. External editors made for other games will mostly not support hitsounds because the concept doesn't exist in those particular other games.
Player community consensus discourages playing converts
At least for osu!mania, osu!standard to osu!mania converts are heavily frowned upon in public multiplayer rooms and at least the majority of the top 50,000 will encourage newer players to learn osu!mania on actual, non-converted mania maps.
This is because in the current state of the conversion output, the resulting patterns can be incredibly awkward and are not representative of actually rankable mapping. Moreover, the long note/slider mechanics do not translate well from one mode to another, leaving gaps between releases and following notes where they would be expected to be jointed. This puts additional burden on the player to care about long note/slider releases, and these are only a few of many gripes about current conversion output.
There is enough content for all modes that we don't need converts anymore
To my understanding, cross-mode converts are a gateway to provide more content to the targeted mode. It is especially useful as a bootstrap for a new mode, where you need content to get players to play the mode and provide tailored content for the mode in return. However, all current modes are now years old with enough maturity, precedent and quantity of maps that converts should not be necessary anymore, especially not in a ranked manner.
For any mode, picking things you like from the ranked section should be far more than enough to get you going, and the star rating system, for all the flack that we like to give it, works pretty well for low values and as a starting point, and the spread requirement for ranked maps has worked wonders to provide beginner-friendly content. Therefore, we should strive in that content and give it proper homage rather than drown it with converts that do not conform to ranking meta.
One argument I see to keep converts anyway would be song/artist coverage for the casual player: providing the possibility to play converts for any map greatly increases the chances you can find something playable for your favorite song, or that one particular song. However, I would argue that providing a leaderboard for those converts should ideally not happen.
---
The above is representative of my own interpretation and opinion as a fairly seasoned mania-only player, and an organizer of a beginner/intermediate friendly tournament featuring many cross-mode players, so I would be interested to hear more from cross-mode players. I know vernonlim is one of them, for what it's worth.
Hi, just want to drop my two cent.
I tried to push this too roughly a year ago but sadly have been rejected before i could make a thread, but that's the past.
It would be indeed cool to see this becoming optional in the future as there seem to be people that play without hitsound and mappers can't/don't want to hit-sound their maps.
I am personally neither for nor against this change. Because both sides have their pluses and minuses.
The biggest point for me why i personally was always a bit against removing the entire hit-sound addition requirement is:
What do you gonna do with the people that actually play with hit-sound additions and need them to become a better accuracy in the game? Yes, these people exist and i am part of it too. I cannot say for sure how many but there are people who play with hit-sounds.
Following scenario: The average TV-Size Anime Beatmap with Easy/Normal/Hard/Insane difficulties doesn't has hit-sound additions but is still a lot played because it's either a good map or the song is good or the anime was simply popular. (This is just an example, it can be basically with every map)
The person which plays without hit-sounds is of course happy. They don't have to care. Hit-normal too loud? Just turn down the effect volume.
The person which plays with hit-sound is suddenly disadvantaged. They cannot do anything. Turning up the effect volume doesn't help either because the hit-sound additions are missing. They can't hit-sound the map by themselves as it would make it unranked.
Same scenario with the same map but hit-sounded:
The person which plays without hit-sound is still happy. They still don't care. They can still just turn down the effect volume.
The person which plays with hit-sounds is also happy. They have their hit-sounds and hit-sound additions and don't have any disadvantage anymore. They can enjoy the beatmap in their way and are no forced to accept a way of playing they don't have to.
This is some kind of dilemma which is not so easy to avoid and should be really considered when talking about this.
"There are enough beatmaps ranked which have hitsounds" - That's true, but that would at some point limit the content the player which requires hit-sounds has available to play.
"But it's just optional, there still gonna be maps ranked with hit-sound" - That's also true, but what when there is this one popular song mapped which everyone likes and it doesn't has hit-sounds? This automatically creates a huge disadvantage for the people which use hit-sounds. Saying "Oh they can just map it by themselves" goes somewhat against the idea of the entire game. As the content should be available for everyone/most of people.
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Like i said previously, i am neither for nor against this proposal. Both ways have their plus and minuses but there are things that must be kept in mind. So yeah, that were just my two-cents which many posts here didn't seem to consider, reading the backlog. Looking forward to see the result of this porposal owob
P.S.: I was following the thread here and there since it has been created and i noticed some trend which bugs me a bit. Can we stop using the term "Most people", "Most players" or similar stuff? There are absolute no statistics for that when saying "Most players don't use hit-sounds" or whatever. osu!mania is a much bigger game-mode than everyone think and it as really a lot of players which we can see from the leaderboard. Can we say for sure that at least 51% of them play without hit-sounds to call it "most" just because some of your friends play without them? I highly doubt so. Would be cool if the discussion could rely purely on the actual facts which everyone can look up if necessary.
I tried to push this too roughly a year ago but sadly have been rejected before i could make a thread, but that's the past.
It would be indeed cool to see this becoming optional in the future as there seem to be people that play without hitsound and mappers can't/don't want to hit-sound their maps.
I am personally neither for nor against this change. Because both sides have their pluses and minuses.
The biggest point for me why i personally was always a bit against removing the entire hit-sound addition requirement is:
What do you gonna do with the people that actually play with hit-sound additions and need them to become a better accuracy in the game? Yes, these people exist and i am part of it too. I cannot say for sure how many but there are people who play with hit-sounds.
Following scenario: The average TV-Size Anime Beatmap with Easy/Normal/Hard/Insane difficulties doesn't has hit-sound additions but is still a lot played because it's either a good map or the song is good or the anime was simply popular. (This is just an example, it can be basically with every map)
The person which plays without hit-sounds is of course happy. They don't have to care. Hit-normal too loud? Just turn down the effect volume.
The person which plays with hit-sound is suddenly disadvantaged. They cannot do anything. Turning up the effect volume doesn't help either because the hit-sound additions are missing. They can't hit-sound the map by themselves as it would make it unranked.
Same scenario with the same map but hit-sounded:
The person which plays without hit-sound is still happy. They still don't care. They can still just turn down the effect volume.
The person which plays with hit-sounds is also happy. They have their hit-sounds and hit-sound additions and don't have any disadvantage anymore. They can enjoy the beatmap in their way and are no forced to accept a way of playing they don't have to.
This is some kind of dilemma which is not so easy to avoid and should be really considered when talking about this.
"There are enough beatmaps ranked which have hitsounds" - That's true, but that would at some point limit the content the player which requires hit-sounds has available to play.
"But it's just optional, there still gonna be maps ranked with hit-sound" - That's also true, but what when there is this one popular song mapped which everyone likes and it doesn't has hit-sounds? This automatically creates a huge disadvantage for the people which use hit-sounds. Saying "Oh they can just map it by themselves" goes somewhat against the idea of the entire game. As the content should be available for everyone/most of people.
---
Like i said previously, i am neither for nor against this proposal. Both ways have their plus and minuses but there are things that must be kept in mind. So yeah, that were just my two-cents which many posts here didn't seem to consider, reading the backlog. Looking forward to see the result of this porposal owob
P.S.: I was following the thread here and there since it has been created and i noticed some trend which bugs me a bit. Can we stop using the term "Most people", "Most players" or similar stuff? There are absolute no statistics for that when saying "Most players don't use hit-sounds" or whatever. osu!mania is a much bigger game-mode than everyone think and it as really a lot of players which we can see from the leaderboard. Can we say for sure that at least 51% of them play without hit-sounds to call it "most" just because some of your friends play without them? I highly doubt so. Would be cool if the discussion could rely purely on the actual facts which everyone can look up if necessary.
I would argue that a majority of the newcomers play with hitsounds as it is the default setting.
I don't think however that not having hitsound additions would make a player that plays with hitsounds any worse or any better. As someone who has played with hitsounds for a long time, I would always override hitsounds with the default hitnormal of my skin (just density alone of a map will cause different feedback and help with accentuation as the feedback is twice the volume by default).
This is not allowing people to just go and put 0% hitsound volume expecting their maps to get ranked, neither is letting mappers use a low % that would put hitsound players in a disadvantage. So long as you can have audible feedback from hitsounds I don't think you really need them to be any more fancier than a hitnormal. It just adds to the cool factor rather than the playability factor.
What I think is accurate is that "most players" don't need hitsound additions to play their maps to their full capabilities. They just need hitsound feedback to follow the rhythm which is sufficient with hitnormals.
I don't think however that not having hitsound additions would make a player that plays with hitsounds any worse or any better. As someone who has played with hitsounds for a long time, I would always override hitsounds with the default hitnormal of my skin (just density alone of a map will cause different feedback and help with accentuation as the feedback is twice the volume by default).
This is not allowing people to just go and put 0% hitsound volume expecting their maps to get ranked, neither is letting mappers use a low % that would put hitsound players in a disadvantage. So long as you can have audible feedback from hitsounds I don't think you really need them to be any more fancier than a hitnormal. It just adds to the cool factor rather than the playability factor.
What I think is accurate is that "most players" don't need hitsound additions to play their maps to their full capabilities. They just need hitsound feedback to follow the rhythm which is sufficient with hitnormals.
Topic Starter
I want to frame this counter arguement correctly.
This is a misguided arguement. People who play with hit-sounds will still hear feedback and can change the feedback they hear in their skin. As juankristal said,Feerum wrote:
Following scenario: The average TV-Size Anime Beatmap with Easy/Normal/Hard/Insane difficulties doesn't has hit-sound additions but is still a lot played because it's either a good map or the song is good or the anime was simply popular. (This is just an example, it can be basically with every map)
The person which plays without hit-sounds is of course happy. They don't have to care. Hit-normal too loud? Just turn down the effect volume.
The person which plays with hit-sound is suddenly disadvantaged. They cannot do anything. Turning up the effect volume doesn't help either because the hit-sound additions are missing. They can't hit-sound the map by themselves as it would make it unranked.
juankristal wrote:
This is not allowing people to just go and put 0% hitsound volume expecting their maps to get ranked, neither is letting mappers use a low % that would put hitsound players in a disadvantage. So long as you can have audible feedback from hitsounds I don't think you really need them to be any more fancier than a hitnormal. It just adds to the cool factor rather than the playability factor.
Just my 2 cents without writing an essay: The reason I got hooked on osu! tatakae! ouendan! (and before that, DJ MAX and BMS simulators) was hitsounds. It's the main reason i made osu!. Say what you will ("this is not your game it's the community's game" / "no one's forced to play maps without hitsounds" etc. etc.), just felt I'd add that here.
If we do allow no hitsounds we may want a tag or symbol on the map denoting it, at very least.
If we do allow no hitsounds we may want a tag or symbol on the map denoting it, at very least.
BMS keysounds are done much better since songs are made specially for the game. The implementation also feels different than osu, you don't have to hit down to the millisecond in order to perfectly sync the music.peppy wrote:
The reason I got hooked on osu! tatakae! ouendan! (and before that, DJ MAX and BMS simulators)
Bobini from BMS discord wrote:
We usually call those keysounds since they are part of the song, unlike hitsounds, which are extra sounds.
I totally agree with you, i love keysounds as well. Keysounds are a fundamental element in VSRGs like BMS, where they are core to the gameplay and the song itself is often made around this as well. Unfortunately, in osu!mania this is the case only in a very slim selection of ranked songs, which come from the mentioned games. Even fully keysounded quality BMS maps are mostly only found in offline packs.
Ranked maps use hitsounds just as an extra layer, and frankly I think the experience is far from being as important as it used to be. To add to the issue, there is a concern with accuracy when using hitsounds. I am not sure what osu! does differently compared to games like beatoraja (since i was able to configure this game correctly), but it's impossible to get a decent synchonisation between hitsounds, music and keyboard. So if you want to play a keysounded map on osu! (random example: smooooch), you have to set your global offset to 0 (which is in practice never correct) and tap very early, so that the hitsounds are in sync with the music. This really is a pain, and even I who likes to enjoy a great keysounded map from time to time will be tainted by this flaw.
So, in short, keysounds are indeed a very enjoyable thing and I love them, but in the case of osu! it is very rare and there are technical concerns that prevent from playing comfortably. Technical concerns applies to regular osu! hitsounds as well, which overall are less of an experience compared to keysounds. This ends up making it better to play without them, and it's one of the reasons people don't notice the difference with ranked maps having hitsounds or not.
Ranked maps use hitsounds just as an extra layer, and frankly I think the experience is far from being as important as it used to be. To add to the issue, there is a concern with accuracy when using hitsounds. I am not sure what osu! does differently compared to games like beatoraja (since i was able to configure this game correctly), but it's impossible to get a decent synchonisation between hitsounds, music and keyboard. So if you want to play a keysounded map on osu! (random example: smooooch), you have to set your global offset to 0 (which is in practice never correct) and tap very early, so that the hitsounds are in sync with the music. This really is a pain, and even I who likes to enjoy a great keysounded map from time to time will be tainted by this flaw.
So, in short, keysounds are indeed a very enjoyable thing and I love them, but in the case of osu! it is very rare and there are technical concerns that prevent from playing comfortably. Technical concerns applies to regular osu! hitsounds as well, which overall are less of an experience compared to keysounds. This ends up making it better to play without them, and it's one of the reasons people don't notice the difference with ranked maps having hitsounds or not.
DeletedUser_10235296
a custom "hitnormal" should likely never be used on its own. that sounds like a mapper just including their preference. if it is in some way matching the song, you could argue it's okay, but why not put in the extra effort to make things a bit more dynamic at that point?
"hitsounds" and "keysounds" are no different, so i use the term "hitsounds" as that is what i defined it as when osu! was formed. back then, every BMS track (at least that i came across) had hitsounds as that's pretty much how the file format works. there are plenty of osu! maps which take hitsounds up to an insane level of customisation, and we still call them "hitsounds", or in such cases "amazing hitsounds".
"hitsounds" and "keysounds" are no different, so i use the term "hitsounds" as that is what i defined it as when osu! was formed. back then, every BMS track (at least that i came across) had hitsounds as that's pretty much how the file format works. there are plenty of osu! maps which take hitsounds up to an insane level of customisation, and we still call them "hitsounds", or in such cases "amazing hitsounds".
A custom hitnormal lets us provide a basic, audible feedback that matches the song for players, which for us is the bare minimum. And yes, we always ensure that it matches the song.peppy wrote:
a custom "hitnormal" should likely never be used on its own. that sounds like a mapper just including their preference. if it is in some way matching the song, you could argue it's okay, but why not put in the extra effort to make things a bit more dynamic at that point?
What isn't necessary in mania is using "additions" to make it more dynamic: by definition, the mode has many tools to provide this dynamism, primarly chord sizes. Unlike in most other modes (mainly std and catch), the dynamics and instrumental layers of the song can be understood and distinguished by the mapping alone, which is why most players play without hitsounds.
I'd say this is fair, specially for people coming from other modes.peppy wrote:
If we do allow no hitsounds we may want a tag or symbol on the map denoting it, at very least.
That being said, I have zero idea about this stuff, but wouldn't it be better to have a symbol that denotes a beatmap is hitsounded?
From a technical (developer) point of view only. From the end user point of view, they obviously don't serve the same purpose so it's worth to use the right vocabulary.peppy wrote:
"hitsounds" and "keysounds" are no different
Have you ever tried to play a BMS or DJMax chart without "hitsounds"?
As a mark of quality, and for people who are looking for specific gameplay, this sounds better. Actually we would need a marker for keysounds (where the custom hitsounds are the music), and normal hitsounds (where they serve as an additionnal layer only).Komirin wrote:
I'd say this is fair, specially for people coming from other modes.
That being said, I have zero idea about this stuff, but wouldn't it be better to have a symbol that denotes a beatmap is hitsounded?
Why separate the two ? First, because they are actually different (see above). But why would we need the technical hassle to do it ? Because second : Keysounded maps are miles above hitsounded maps in terms of both mapper effort and player experience. For my personal preference as an example, I would play keysounded maps all day, but i simply don't care about hitsounded maps because they mostly have nothing to do with the music itself.
As far as I know, an overwhelming majority of osu!mania players don't keep hitsounds on
I can't name a single osu!mania player I know who uses hitsounds.
When I tried to share YouTube videos of maps I made in osu!mania-focused communities, I got flamed for keeping the hitsounds on in my recording.
I think requiring mappers to invest time and effort to map hitsounds when there is a possibility that not a single player will hear them is not right.
I'd be ok with an icon to show maps without hitsounds but I don't think osu!mania players will pay attention to it anyway, I can bet it'll be used by osu! mode players when playing through graveyard or WIP maps instead.
Stats of how many active osu!mania players have hitsounds on vs off could be interesting, but the comments here already give an idea of the results.
An icon for keysounded maps sound very useful, as players will know they need to re-enable hitsounds before playing them.
I can't name a single osu!mania player I know who uses hitsounds.
When I tried to share YouTube videos of maps I made in osu!mania-focused communities, I got flamed for keeping the hitsounds on in my recording.
I think requiring mappers to invest time and effort to map hitsounds when there is a possibility that not a single player will hear them is not right.
I'd be ok with an icon to show maps without hitsounds but I don't think osu!mania players will pay attention to it anyway, I can bet it'll be used by osu! mode players when playing through graveyard or WIP maps instead.
Stats of how many active osu!mania players have hitsounds on vs off could be interesting, but the comments here already give an idea of the results.
An icon for keysounded maps sound very useful, as players will know they need to re-enable hitsounds before playing them.
DeletedUser_10235296
Komirin wrote:
A custom hitnormal lets us provide a basic, audible feedback that matches the song for players, which for us is the bare minimum
Komirin wrote:
Removing hitsound addition requirements (leaving the custom hitnormal requirement because that's an essential minumum) would be amazingly beneficial for the mode as a whole.
Herarudo wrote:
Hitnormal should be the only mandatory thing
Nimis wrote:
I would still prefer beatmaps to have a custom hitnormal only just because every song is different
DarkistDeci wrote:
...even as little as turning it into a single hitnormal would be beneficial to overall mappers and their relativity to their own maps...
Mipha- wrote:
If a good number of people still persists on adding HS as a requirement, by the absolute minimum it should just be one hitnormal...
juankristal wrote:
They just need hitsound feedback to follow the rhythm which is sufficient with hitnormals
Seems to me the fairest consensus for minimum hitsound requirements should just be a suitable custom hitnormal for a map no? If that's the case, I personally believe this topic can be wrapped up soon
Edit: Regarding an icon to display whether a map isn't fully custom hitsounded, sure. Seems unnecessary to me and it would make more sense to just state so in a maps description, but whatever works
Shouldn't hitsounding requirements be moved to the osu!catch and osu! specific RC pages at this point? It technically doesn't apply to taiko and if it doesn't apply to mania, having something in the general RC that only applies to half the game modes seems off.
Then it could be like->
osu: Hitsounding required
osu!catch: Hitsounding required
osu!mania: Hitnormal with good feedback required, other optional.
Then it could be like->
osu: Hitsounding required
osu!catch: Hitsounding required
osu!mania: Hitnormal with good feedback required, other optional.
Topic Starter
Feels like that should be a separate merge request (and maybe proposal), but not sure. It makes sense to approach this incrementally:Noffy wrote:
Shouldn't hitsounding requirements be moved to the osu!catch and osu! specific RC pages at this point? It technically doesn't apply to taiko and if it doesn't apply to mania, having something in the general RC that only applies to half the game modes seems off.
Then it could be like->
osu: Hitsounding required
osu!catch: Hitsounding required
osu!mania: Hitnormal with good feedback required, other optional.
remove hitsounds additions requirement in mania -> restructure hitsounding criteria to be per-mode
Topic Starter
It's finally merged
no it should not be moved to per ruleset criteria. we are not making it any less visible.