Looks like this is cut and dry. I've made a pull request: https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/6128
Hold off on merging this until I have a chance to read through the thread. It doesn't seem 100% cut and dry, so want to make sure I'm on the same page.A couple of arguments why coupling ranking criteria to cross-mode converts (and to an extent, having converts ranked in the first place) is misguided in my opinion
One thing to keep in mind is that hitsounds are used for converting maps, which in lazer would be used for conversions from mania to taiko, for instance. Food for thought that dropping the requirement would make such conversions no longer play well.
This is a misguided arguement. People who play with hit-sounds will still hear feedback and can change the feedback they hear in their skin. As juankristal said,Feerum wrote:
Following scenario: The average TV-Size Anime Beatmap with Easy/Normal/Hard/Insane difficulties doesn't has hit-sound additions but is still a lot played because it's either a good map or the song is good or the anime was simply popular. (This is just an example, it can be basically with every map)
The person which plays without hit-sounds is of course happy. They don't have to care. Hit-normal too loud? Just turn down the effect volume.
The person which plays with hit-sound is suddenly disadvantaged. They cannot do anything. Turning up the effect volume doesn't help either because the hit-sound additions are missing. They can't hit-sound the map by themselves as it would make it unranked.
juankristal wrote:
This is not allowing people to just go and put 0% hitsound volume expecting their maps to get ranked, neither is letting mappers use a low % that would put hitsound players in a disadvantage. So long as you can have audible feedback from hitsounds I don't think you really need them to be any more fancier than a hitnormal. It just adds to the cool factor rather than the playability factor.
BMS keysounds are done much better since songs are made specially for the game. The implementation also feels different than osu, you don't have to hit down to the millisecond in order to perfectly sync the music.peppy wrote:
The reason I got hooked on osu! tatakae! ouendan! (and before that, DJ MAX and BMS simulators)
Bobini from BMS discord wrote:
We usually call those keysounds since they are part of the song, unlike hitsounds, which are extra sounds.
A custom hitnormal lets us provide a basic, audible feedback that matches the song for players, which for us is the bare minimum. And yes, we always ensure that it matches the song.peppy wrote:
a custom "hitnormal" should likely never be used on its own. that sounds like a mapper just including their preference. if it is in some way matching the song, you could argue it's okay, but why not put in the extra effort to make things a bit more dynamic at that point?
I'd say this is fair, specially for people coming from other modes.peppy wrote:
If we do allow no hitsounds we may want a tag or symbol on the map denoting it, at very least.
From a technical (developer) point of view only. From the end user point of view, they obviously don't serve the same purpose so it's worth to use the right vocabulary.peppy wrote:
"hitsounds" and "keysounds" are no different
As a mark of quality, and for people who are looking for specific gameplay, this sounds better. Actually we would need a marker for keysounds (where the custom hitsounds are the music), and normal hitsounds (where they serve as an additionnal layer only).Komirin wrote:
I'd say this is fair, specially for people coming from other modes.
That being said, I have zero idea about this stuff, but wouldn't it be better to have a symbol that denotes a beatmap is hitsounded?
Komirin wrote:
A custom hitnormal lets us provide a basic, audible feedback that matches the song for players, which for us is the bare minimum
Komirin wrote:
Removing hitsound addition requirements (leaving the custom hitnormal requirement because that's an essential minumum) would be amazingly beneficial for the mode as a whole.
Herarudo wrote:
Hitnormal should be the only mandatory thing
Nimis wrote:
I would still prefer beatmaps to have a custom hitnormal only just because every song is different
DarkistDeci wrote:
...even as little as turning it into a single hitnormal would be beneficial to overall mappers and their relativity to their own maps...
Mipha- wrote:
If a good number of people still persists on adding HS as a requirement, by the absolute minimum it should just be one hitnormal...
juankristal wrote:
They just need hitsound feedback to follow the rhythm which is sufficient with hitnormals
Feels like that should be a separate merge request (and maybe proposal), but not sure. It makes sense to approach this incrementally:Noffy wrote:
Shouldn't hitsounding requirements be moved to the osu!catch and osu! specific RC pages at this point? It technically doesn't apply to taiko and if it doesn't apply to mania, having something in the general RC that only applies to half the game modes seems off.
Then it could be like->
osu: Hitsounding required
osu!catch: Hitsounding required
osu!mania: Hitnormal with good feedback required, other optional.