Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. Beatmaps
  3. Mapping Discussion
  4. Ranking Criteria
  5. Finalized/Denied Amendments

[Proposal] move unrelated difficulty name rule to guidelines

posted
Total Posts
26
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
Raiden
Hello, we recently had a disqualification case on a map that had a difficulty name that followed a series of high difficulty beatmaps by the same creator ( https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1010356/discussion#/1199194 ), which apparently is unrankable because this rule exists:
A beatmapset's custom difficulty naming must follow a common theme or pattern related to the song and must not be misrepresentative.


However, other recent maps have been ranked which clearly break this rule but no action was taken against them, and no one even bothered reporting them: https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/978134#taiko/2047037
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/981255#taiko/2053447
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/986959#taiko/2064590
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/965178#taiko/2020455
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/958909#taiko/2007651

So, the proposal is fairly simple, move that rule to guidelines and change "must" for "should":
A beatmapset's custom difficulty naming should follow a common theme or pattern related to the song and should not be misrepresentative.


This would give more freedom to mappers to get creative with diff names, as well as mappers who like to have a series of high difficulty maps named the same way, while still maintaining the restrictive aspect of being a guideline and leaving the final judgement to the Beatmap Nominators.
Last edited by Raiden , edited 6 times in total.
Ryuusei Aika
Elite Mapper
1,116 posts
Joined January 2016
Ryuusei Aika
from my observation of how some beatmap nominators using guidelines while modding, i'd suggest to completely remove this from the ranking criteria

mapper can use any difficulty names as they like and they believe appropritate (of course it can't be lewd but that's another completely different story), and i don't see the reason why a so-called unrelated diffname in some people's eyes are so harmful that they must propose a rule to against it

p.s. that last feryquitous map's highest diff name can be considered related to the song because Rhuzerv is how feryquitous say "Koe" in their artifical language
Last edited by Ryuusei Aika , edited 2 times in total.
-Keitaro
1,023 posts
Joined October 2013
-Keitaro
old
though it seems to make sense to move it to guideline, as i said in bn server, im not entirely agree with this, you could just name it something like "Duality of the Contrapositive: Heavenly Arrow Antinomia" on an anime opening without any meaning behind (except just to be edgy) which in the end might work if its moved to guideline

^ this might be a bit weak argument but think of it this way: if the diffname doesn't relate to the song at all, it's better relate to the diff itself, how the diff is concepted, etc. so instead i propose something like this: i misunderstood lol


imo it would be better to also cover how the diffname is concepted so although it doesnt make much sense to other aspect it makes sense to gameplay side (and by explicitly saying that its allowed, it opens up more creativity towards diffname), so here's my proposal:

A beatmapset's custom difficulty naming should follow a common theme or pattern related to the song or the difficulty and should not be misrepresentative.


so if the diffname fails to relate to both of these, its better to change the diffname, this way things like "Frozen" diffname on a random camellia song could be interpreted as the diff itself being SV-change heavy

Edit: the above rule could be putted in guidelines
EDIT 2: stuffs on first thing
Last edited by -Keitaro , edited 5 times in total.
radar
osu! Alumni
283 posts
Joined September 2015
radar
The one used in my map can be explained in the box (kinda cheesing it), and the one on Koe is the album name im pretty sure (or the alternate name for the song). I agree though that it should be moved to guidelines, creative difficulty names are cool unless they make actually no sense
pimp
1,417 posts
Joined April 2010
pimp
tbf i'm indifferent about this proposal but how often is this rule ignored on other game modes?
i might be wrong but i don't remember any recent case where a standard mode mapset got ranked with completely unrelated difficulty name or difficulty name related to mapset host's username.

so isn't it just the taiko nominators not paying attention to this rule?
Last edited by pimp , edited 1 time in total.
tasuke912
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2018
1,347 posts
Joined June 2013
tasuke912
In many cases it is too hard for people who don't know the song very well to judge if a custrom diffname is related to the song or not. Rhuzerv would be a good example. Also, diffnames that describes difficulty concept (such as Devil Stream, Intense, etc) attracts people. I believe this rule is not worth it and should be moved to the guidelines or removed completely.

Devil Stream Oni and Intense Extra look far worse than original.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
i think what may be reasonable to change is allowing generic sounding words/phrases -- like Frozen or Cosmic Minds don't seem problematic to me because they're just... i dunno, normal sounding things? am i crazy for thinking this?

the thing the rule should avoid is complete nonsense. if i were to name the diff of https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1010356#taiko/2115002 "pogchamp", it would come off as stupid and too unrelated, so that's what should be avoided

for sets with multiple custom diffnames, "following a common theme or pattern" is still important, so removing the rule entirely is not gonna happen
iceOC
Former osu!taiko Champion: 2020
147 posts
Joined January 2015
iceOC

pimp wrote:

tbf i'm indifferent about this proposal but how often is this rule ignored on other game modes?
i might be wrong but i don't remember any recent case where a standard mode mapset got ranked with completely unrelated difficulty name or difficulty name related to mapset host's username.

so isn't it just the taiko nominators not paying attention to this rule?


idk std map.
but I think "Legend" is unrelated difficulty name.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
-Keitaro's suggestion lgtm, seems like everyone agrees that diff names should be "related to the song or the difficulty"
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
anyone disagree with that^ ? gonna change soon if not
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
his suggestion doesn't really fix much of what this thread is complaining about. i guess it's better than no change though so :ok:
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
what doesnt it fixx
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
people use lots of generic-sounding words as diffnames and nobody bothers about them because they don't stand out, but they also don't fit with the song or map. i tried explainig that here https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/posts/7251754
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
[8:11 PM] clayton: why would u want "generic words" as diff name
[8:11 PM] clayton: like u said urself they mean nothing
[8:11 PM] pishi: dunno
[8:12 PM] pishi: people do it tho
[8:12 PM] pishi: im not people
[8:12 PM] clayton: and thatsnot good right
[8:12 PM] clayton: so Rule
[8:13 PM] pishi: rule that people are already breaking


i dont think "this isn't being followed" is a good reason to lower severity, it just means we need to discuss the rule and figure out how to apply it better. which we're doing.

let's say diff names should be any of:
- describing the difficulty (wow)
- describing something about the map
- related to the song
- following some common theme brought up by any of the above

so my proposal is change rule to "related to song or gameplay" + mention how mappers sometimes have running diffnames across lots of mapsets as a signature

I don't see why you'd want anything else. radar's comment sums up everyone in this thread

radar wrote:

creative difficulty names are cool unless they make actually no sense

and in my conservative assumption I think "making sense" is synonymous to what I wrote
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
how is mapper signature related to the bullet points you have about relevant diffnames? like are you saying it should be allowed or not im confused
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
allowed cuz "following some common theme brought up by any of the above"

would be written more clearly on actual RC
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Topic Starter
Raiden
I guess that would work, too.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
gimme example of how it woudl be writetn
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
this isnt going anywhere til someone tells me how to word it. i have no ideas :(

would also be good to incorporate https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/988373 since it's addressing hte same rule, but for different reasons
Nifty
902 posts
Joined September 2014
Nifty
Why don't we just enforce the rule? I would say having self-referential diffnames is the exact opposite of being creative, you're choosing to not think outside the box and find something related to the music or gameplay that fits the song and instead are retreating to an obvious, easier choice that you can slap on to anything, whether it fits or not.

Also every name you mentioned can be related to the map in some way, yea's "Cosmic Minds" difficulties can be compared to Kazu's "dysthymia" series, where he only uses the diffname on maps that are psytrance type genre, which is closely affiliate with the whole space-brain-tech aesthetic. TAIKO-HOLIC is slightly similar in the way it will always refer to a difficult taiko map, uses the "-HOLIC" to imply that people who play are "addicted" (aka you have to play a lot to play those maps). cognitive dissonance is meant to be related to the way the music goes from intense to calm super quick and often, which also make sense.

I don't think any change you could make to this rule would make much of a difference, and I personally don't see any negative impact the current rule is having besides keeping unrelated diffnames out of ranked, no matter whether you want to put the effort into understanding them or not. It's always good to ask if you're not sure, and if the only defense the mapper has is "well it sounds good" or "it's my own series," it isn't rankable.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
anyone who disagrees with post above me should give their input (otherwise i'll jsut archive this)
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
ur missing the point if this would be archived

right now the rule says "related to the song" and "must not be misrepresentative"(what does this even mean?), and there's nothing about the actual difficulty or gameplay of the map, which is the whole point of a difficulty name...

i'd argue even some random word a mapper uses consistently across their mapsets is more indicative of the difficulty than some random word related to the song.
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
misrepresentative = naming top diff 7 star map "Normal"

i just want wording for the change but nobody who supports the change will write wording :(((((
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
ok thendont archive and someone(me if nobody else) will get around to it
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
looks like wording isn't happening so let's just go with keitaro's + explaination on what is misrepresentative (since this thread isnt the only place ive been asked about that)

- **A beatmapset's custom difficulty naming must follow a common theme or pattern related to the song or difficulty and must not be misrepresentative.** A difficulty name is misrepresentative if it implies a different difficulty level (e.g. naming an "Expert" difficulty as "Normal").

https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/3015
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
merged

if people want something about mapper signatures or wahtever clarified, make a new thread
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 26