Providing images for terms is 10/10. will really help newcomers fully understand patterns
DDMythical wrote:
rules and svSlider velocity changes that alter the scrolling speed of the map are disallowed. An exception to this rule would be creating slider velocity changes to unify the scroll speed in BPM-variable maps. Scroll normalization is mandatory and must be done in maps with variable BPM.
would https://osu.ppy.sh/s/704987 be regarded as an exception to this rule? This should not be a rule; it should be a guideline, and, if that, this presumes a congruency between physical difficulty (what star rating assesses, and determines whether the difficulty is an easy/normal/whatever) and visual/mental difficulty, with regards to svs. There is no major correlation between these two factors. A chart that is harder physically does not mean it is better suited for harsher svs than a chart physically lighter. In fact, it's the complete opposite. Looking at some of the most popular harsh sv charts in the game (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/572000 - Coinage
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/723624 - Back Of The Yards
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/108708 - dEKA
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/591171 - Groundhog
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/415946 - Chloroplast Skin
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/673208 - Cycles)
you can see that most, if not all of them, fall around a low difficulty range relative to the ability necessary to learn the SVs. As such, no explicit rule should be included which dictates congruency between physical ability and SVs, I don't disagree with it being a guideline, but even-so, it's presented in a sense which implies that as your chart is harder physically, it becomes better to use harsher svs, when, in reality, it is the complete converse. this is harmful to new charters.
DDMythical wrote:
why is 180bpm picked as the standard for what measures are determined as too difficult for the player at any given level, if anything, pick 150 - it divides much better into certain bpms which are common at certain difficulty levels:
1/4 = 150
1/6 = 200
1/8 = 300
1/12 = 400
as opposed to:
1/4 = 180
1/6 = 270
1/8 = 360
1/12 = 540
which are significantly more illogical.
Noch Einen wrote:
I found some map were "breaking the guidelines" like Timing, hitsounding, offsets / BPM / snapping.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/189643 - dreamin' feat.Ryu☆ [2nd Kiai place as x1.05] (2014) (INFINITE)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/113175 - Phantasmagoria (not quite same, yet similiar) [1st BPM place as half or 2nd BPM as double or reversed, idk which one] (2013) [All diff]
Noch Einen wrote:
Hitsounding
I'm certainly sure hitsound consistency is brought up by Protastic101 before his map got ranked Camellia - Exit This Earth's Atomosphere
Yet i found inconsistent hs on jioyi - cyanine Rivals_7's map [Ultimate] is like this at 03:02:161 (182161|3) -
and hs vol conflict between [Another] & the rest of those diff (at some part)i can't tell where it is, i lost my data
Snapping
There is 1 song has weird snapping (currently on pas ranked map) Mitsuyoshi Takenobu no Ani - Amphisbaena (i think this one is fine because minor problem, but i just pointed it out, so upcoming weird snap on other song would not be like this again)
Both ranked are using same pattern on 1 part (00:26:681 - which are late on vocal offsets, applies on 02:05:275 - too)
BPM / Offsets
Actually this is 1 of other big mistake on ranked map. Why do i say this? Because it has really early offset than precise location?
The song is Team Grimoire - Sheriruth. Try take a deep observation & listen carefully at 25% & 1/16 snapping from the whole diff / early (regardless of what diff they are, those are same). Still didn't believe it? try at 00:44:345 - and go 1/16 further & listen at 25%
Two notes cannot be placed in a single column at the same timestampWhich makes me wonder: Should 1ms jacks be rankable? 10ms?
Every note should correlate to a sound present in the music. This should be a distinct sound, but can also coherently represent a continuous sound with an indistinguishable start or end.Might be picky on the wording, but it feels like this is saying only one note can be allocated for each "sound". "Sound" ofc is rather abstract, but it's easy to misinterpret that to be notes in the actual music as well. So if you have a wub, for example, it would be easy to misinterpret, accidentally or otherwise, that you can't have a burst of notes representing that, and instead need to use a single LN instead. I suggest using "noise" instead of "sound" since it relates more to how something actually sounds instead of the objectified concept of some kind of sound.
abraker wrote:
Two notes cannot be placed in a single column at the same timestamp
Which makes me wonder: Should 1ms jacks be rankable? 10ms?
Lenfried- wrote:
What constitutes a distinct sound is a good point to talk about as it gives way to arguments on what's chartable or not. This goes for noise elements like static or wubs. I'm inclined to believe that degree of dumping would be allowable due to this clause:
"would be effectively represented with a consistent, predictable snap"
Lenfried- wrote:
with that said, i still believe this guideline is unnecessary:
"Long notes should not have release timings that use different timing snaps. For example, long note releases should not have a 1/3 snap on the end of it and a 1/4 snap at the end of another. However, long note releases that are used with common multiples can be used."
Lenfried- wrote:
"Rhythm related guidelines apply to approximately 180 BPM maps." Try to make a poll on this. I still strongly believe 150 BPM should be the standard as it enforces the guidelines better particularly E/N diffs for a greater scope of music.
Lenfried- wrote:
Normal Rule: "A long note cannot be released during another long note’s body. This requires a level of finger independence that players of this difficulty cannot handle."
performedWhy use this weird term, why not just say "pressed" instead, performed makes it sound like you have to dance to hit keys
Anchor: A pattern that has a relatively high amount of notes in one column, usually found within different types of streams.Can be confused with jacks, though i personally can't think of a better way to phrase it.
Chordstream (Jumpstream, Handstream, Quadstream): In 5k and higher keymodes, chordstreams are streams that mix different types of chords. In 4k, streams with chords are either called jumpstreams, handstreams, or quadstreams depending on the highest chord type used.This is a fucking mess, split Jumpstream/Handstream/Quadstream into different categories or at least link them to their relative chord density (Jump - 2, Hand - 3) don't leave room for ambiguity.
Reverse ShieldMissed terminology, see https://imgur-archive.ppy.sh/discord/523609376385269780-539508237460963363-Osumania_Pattern__Repository.png in fact it might be worth just having this available in the wiki anyway since hiding information just to not overwhelm a new charter then leaves them room for incorrect interpretation in future development also images are pretty
If multiple key modes are present in a single beatmap set, the keymode must be denoted in the difficulty name.Do we have to? There's enough indications these days for key modes which makes this feel a bit redundant (this used to be a website issue but no longer)
Slider velocity changes should be snapped according to the song's beat structure.pfftt yeah right
Slider velocity changes that alter the scrolling speed of the beatmap are disallowed. Slider velocity changes to unify the scroll speed in variable BPM beatmaps are exempt.Redundancy
Scroll normalization must be done in beatmaps with variable BPM.
A long note cannot be released during another long note’s body. This requires a level of finger independence that players of this difficulty cannot handle.I feel that since normal goes up to like what 2.7* now that users should be able to release notes in another's body, after all https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/741207#mania/1588737 was ranked as a normal and has it available, either this rule needs clarifying with snapping or changed to a guideline
What prevents someone from using ridiculously high bpm? I suggest making a rule that says that the BPM set for the map cannot exceed two or three or etc times the BPM of the song. That should allow up to 1/32 or 1/48 or etc snapping relative to the song. Depends on what the smallest snapping you believe should be acceptable.Maxus wrote:
The notion of 1ms or 10ms are equal to something that's even faster than 1/16 snap, which is calculated as unsnap which therefore are unrankable.
abraker wrote:
What prevents someone from using ridiculously high bpm? I suggest making a rule that says that the BPM set for the map cannot exceed two or three or etc times the BPM of the song. That should allow up to 1/32 or 1/48 or etc snapping relative to the song. Depends on what the smallest snapping you believe should be acceptable.Maxus wrote:
The notion of 1ms or 10ms are equal to something that's even faster than 1/16 snap, which is calculated as unsnap which therefore are unrankable.
Hydria wrote:
Pattern Terminology CleanupperformedWhy use this weird term, why not just say "pressed" instead, performed makes it sound like you have to dance to hit keys
Hydria wrote:
Anchor: A pattern that has a relatively high amount of notes in one column, usually found within different types of streams.Can be confused with jacks, though i personally can't think of a better way to phrase it.
Hydria wrote:
Chordstream (Jumpstream, Handstream, Quadstream): In 5k and higher keymodes, chordstreams are streams that mix different types of chords. In 4k, streams with chords are either called jumpstreams, handstreams, or quadstreams depending on the highest chord type used.This is a fucking mess, split Jumpstream/Handstream/Quadstream into different categories or at least link them to their relative chord density (Jump - 2, Hand - 3) don't leave room for ambiguity.
Hydria wrote:
Reverse ShieldMissed terminology, see https://imgur-archive.ppy.sh/discord/523609376385269780-539508237460963363-Osumania_Pattern__Repository.png in fact it might be worth just having this available in the wiki anyway since hiding information just to not overwhelm a new charter then leaves them room for incorrect interpretation in future development also images are pretty
Hydria wrote:
RulesIf multiple key modes are present in a single beatmap set, the keymode must be denoted in the difficulty name.Do we have to? There's enough indications these days for key modes which makes this feel a bit redundant (this used to be a website issue but no longer)
See:
< Website
< Client
Hydria wrote:
Easy
RulesSlider velocity changes that alter the scrolling speed of the beatmap are disallowed. Slider velocity changes to unify the scroll speed in variable BPM beatmaps are exempt.Redundancy
Scroll normalization must be done in beatmaps with variable BPM.
Hydria wrote:
Normal
RulesA long note cannot be released during another long note’s body. This requires a level of finger independence that players of this difficulty cannot handle.I feel that since normal goes up to like what 2.7* now that users should be able to release notes in another's body, after all https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/741207#mania/1588737 was ranked as a normal and has it available, either this rule needs clarifying with snapping or changed to a guideline
guidelines prob has additional issues but they're guidelines so they can be ignored weeeee
abraker wrote:
What prevents someone from using ridiculously high bpm? I suggest making a rule that says that the BPM set for the map cannot exceed two or three or etc times the BPM of the song. That should allow up to 1/32 or 1/48 or etc snapping relative to the song. Depends on what the smallest snapping you believe should be acceptable.Maxus wrote:
The notion of 1ms or 10ms are equal to something that's even faster than 1/16 snap, which is calculated as unsnap which therefore are unrankable.
Lenfried- wrote:
@maxus ok i sort of agree with that but if ever that rule could only apply on "if normal is the easiet diff". The screenshot you sent alongside other tricky ln stuff falls under "tech releases" (unless someone can coin a better term). Since it's a tricky pattern to put into words concisely, id rather see explicit screenshot usages backed up with text so like:
Normal as lowest diff in the set:
The following LN usages are not allowed:
LNs where two or more LNs held are at the same physical hand (ex. col 0|2 for 4k, col 0|1|2 for 7k) but have different release timings:
insert screenshot
Once an LN is released, if there is another LN being held, it can only be released after x (placeholder) amount of time
something like that but its a little rough.
Hydria wrote:
RulesIf multiple key modes are present in a single beatmap set, the keymode must be denoted in the difficulty name.Do we have to? There's enough indications these days for key modes which makes this feel a bit redundant (this used to be a website issue but no longer)
See:
< Website
< Client
Key Mode: The number of keys present in a difficulty.A nitpick but I think it's better to use words with established definitions instead of assuming the reader knows what words are referring to. In this case I would change it to, "Key Mode: The number of columns present in a difficulty" because "columns" has been clearly defined prior but "keys" has not. It's hard to imagine how anyone would "keys" can refer to something else, but I think it's better to preserve basis.
Keysounding: Hit sounding using samples extremely similar or directly from the song in their respective places. This method of hit sounding usually provides low feedback to the player.I am not sure what "low feedback" means here. Does it mean to say "minor feedback" as in it is usually not the main/major source of feedback for the player?
Slider Velocity: ...I would put the definition for this before defining "Long Term Slider Velocity" and "Short Term Slider Velocity". I would also put those two next to each other. They are currently separated by "Musical Phrase", and I think it's better to group the SV related stuff together.
Anchor: A pattern that has a relatively high amount of notes in one column, usually found within different types of streams.According to this definition there can be multiple anchors present in an overall pattern simultaneously so long as one column has relatively lower amount of notes. This means 3 of the 4 columns can have relatively high amount of notes compared to a column with relatively low amount of notes, and you can selectively pick one of those 3 columns and claim they are an anchor. I am not sure whether this intended or not, but if not, I would word it as "relatively higher amount of notes in one column than any other column".
Inverse: A type of pattern that replaces all regular notes with long notes in a given section, commonly when there are enough long notes to cover a majority of the playfield.I think this is a weak definition of inverse as it relies on the concept of what should be replaced. I would also argue that "commonly when there are enough long notes to cover a majority of the playfield." is not entirely accurate as you can have inverse type of patterns limited to a few columns and still be inverse. Arguably as low as two columns would be sufficient enough for an inverse pattern like this one. I would define it as, "A type of pattern that consists of mostly long notes and has spaces that span less than the length of the surrounding long notes".