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ESTi - HELIX (Edit ver.) [Taiko]

posted
Total Posts
26
hikiko-
236 posts
Joined May 2015
Topic Starter
hikiko-
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Sunday, May 20, 2018 at 11:03:47 AM

Artist: ESTi
Title: HELIX (Edit ver.)
Source: O2Jam Analog
Tags: jinbae park mobile u brutal dub and bloody bass ios android lks studiosis
BPM: 175
Filesize: 4285kb
Play Time: 02:18
Difficulties Available:
  1. Futsuu (2.27 stars, 333 notes)
  2. Inner Oni (7.5 stars, 1007 notes)
  3. Kantan (1.41 stars, 196 notes)
  4. Muzukashii (3.04 stars, 489 notes)
  5. Oni (3.81 stars, 721 notes)
Download: ESTi - HELIX (Edit ver.)
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
enable beatmap hitsounds!
top diff used in twc 2018 group stage mappool
mp3 and bg taken from hw's mapset
read please
various downloads
download EX (NSC) diff here (top diff with no sv changes)
download EX diff here (top diff with old sv)
download MX diff here (sv modified for twc)
download nerf diff here (you know what this is)
Last edited by hikiko- , edited 14 times in total.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
[Oni]
00:27:418 (135) - to 00:29:475 (145) - This little section could use some work imo. Add a note at 00:27:590 then take 00:29:475 (145) - and move it to 00:29:647 - . The melody and drums still follow each other pretty strongly here so it makes sense to have the rhythm reflect that.
00:30:161 (148,149,150,151,152) - This being a 5pelt seems like overkill. Just taking out the 2nd note will be a more suitable rhythm. Doing so the triplet will help with the buildup into the following 5pelt.
00:30:847 (153,154,155,156,157,158) - Speaking of that 5 pelt, you could fill in the gap here to make a 7 note stream. The only catch is I would then remove 00:31:704 (160,161,162,163,164,165) - and replace them with finishers for the 2 heavy beats that happen. Overall this rhythm works much better for the song and difficulty.
00:42:504 (216,217,218,219,220) - The same can be said about this 5 pelt as before. Removing the 2nd note would be more appropriate.
00:53:475 (276,277,278,279,280) - This one is more optional. The triplet before gives the momentum to lead into a 5 pelt and the song structure is a little different, so it feels more natural. But if you want to aim for consistency, remove the 2nd note. Your call, works fine either way imo.
01:25:618 (451) - This triplet should be moved to later in the pattern for consistency reasons. 01:26:390 (456,457) - Between here as a kkk/kdk, or 01:26:218 (455,456) - between here as ddk.
01:26:904 (459,460,461,462,463,464,465) - The song doesn't really show room for a long stream here compared to other sections (aka where you have placed other 5pelts/streams with the heavy kicks) You can either break it into two triplets (kkd ddk) or remove the 2nd note (k ddddk).
01:42:733 (546) - I think this note would serve its purpose better at the end of the next pattern instead (01:44:047) because of the added wub sounds in the music.
01:49:704 (586) - to 01:58:618 (640) - Maybe tone down the density here? This is mainly for spread reasons for Muzu. Also some of the patterns get a little complicated. Adjusting to the 1/3 then going into complex pattern types should be saved for the Inner honestly.
01:59:304 (643,644,645,646,647) - Like other suggestions, remove the 2nd note. 02:00:333 (653,654) - can also be filled in too, like before.

[Muzukashii]
01:41:818 (357,358) - Swap these around? Feels better for the kats to land on snares here.

[Futsuu]
A lot of the map FEELS like it is more focused on following the melody than the beat. Even though you do map most of the beat, surrounding it with patterns focused on the melody makes it feel a little messy and inconsistent. You can see this a lot in sections like 00:13:704 (19) - where you have patterns like 00:20:218 (34,35,36,37,38,39,40) - ignoring key parts of the beat to play more to the melody. Compared to section like 00:54:847 (127) - where there isn't much melody to focus on giving the beat more focus is what I think this difficulty should aim for. More consistent and simplistic rhythms with some spice every now and then from the melody. Overall the map's density feels correct, just the core rhythm feels all over the place. I can go more in depth over discord or IRC with you instead of making a huge wall of a post here.

[Kantan]
00:31:704 (41,42) - Offbeat + finisher after the previous string of patterns seems a little complex for a kantan, imo. I'd say just use 1 finisher or remove the finish from both of them?
hikiko-
236 posts
Joined May 2015
Topic Starter
hikiko-
thx for mod fam
changes

MMzz wrote:

[Oni]
00:27:418 (135) - to 00:29:475 (145) - This little section could use some work imo. Add a note at 00:27:590 then take 00:29:475 (145) - and move it to 00:29:647 - . The melody and drums still follow each other pretty strongly here so it makes sense to have the rhythm reflect that. did a bit of reworking
00:30:161 (148,149,150,151,152) - This being a 5pelt seems like overkill. Just taking out the 2nd note will be a more suitable rhythm. Doing so the triplet will help with the buildup into the following 5pelt. deleted 4th note instead so that the bar starts with 1/4 to match the instrumental rhythm
00:30:847 (153,154,155,156,157,158) - Speaking of that 5 pelt, you could fill in the gap here to make a 7 note stream. The only catch is I would then remove 00:31:704 (160,161,162,163,164,165) - and replace them with finishers for the 2 heavy beats that happen. Overall this rhythm works much better for the song and difficulty. adjusted stuff
00:42:504 (216,217,218,219,220) - The same can be said about this 5 pelt as before. Removing the 2nd note would be more appropriate. done
00:53:475 (276,277,278,279,280) - This one is more optional. The triplet before gives the momentum to lead into a 5 pelt and the song structure is a little different, so it feels more natural. But if you want to aim for consistency, remove the 2nd note. Your call, works fine either way imo. keeping it as it is, a bit more density is ok because this is the section that correlates to the kiai
01:25:618 (451) - This triplet should be moved to later in the pattern for consistency reasons. 01:26:390 (456,457) - Between here as a kkk/kdk, or 01:26:218 (455,456) - between here as ddk. did the kdk option
01:26:904 (459,460,461,462,463,464,465) - The song doesn't really show room for a long stream here compared to other sections (aka where you have placed other 5pelts/streams with the heavy kicks) You can either break it into two triplets (kkd ddk) or remove the 2nd note (k ddddk). toned down to kkd ddk
01:42:733 (546) - I think this note would serve its purpose better at the end of the next pattern instead (01:44:047) because of the added wub sounds in the music. done
01:49:704 (586) - to 01:58:618 (640) - Maybe tone down the density here? This is mainly for spread reasons for Muzu. Also some of the patterns get a little complicated. Adjusting to the 1/3 then going into complex pattern types should be saved for the Inner honestly. repatterned so that most of the 1/3 quintuplets are kkddk and kdddk
01:59:304 (643,644,645,646,647) - Like other suggestions, remove the 2nd note. 02:00:333 (653,654) - can also be filled in too, like before. done

[Muzukashii]
01:41:818 (357,358) - Swap these around? Feels better for the kats to land on snares here. sure

[Futsuu]
A lot of the map FEELS like it is more focused on following the melody than the beat. Even though you do map most of the beat, surrounding it with patterns focused on the melody makes it feel a little messy and inconsistent. You can see this a lot in sections like 00:13:704 (19) - where you have patterns like 00:20:218 (34,35,36,37,38,39,40) - ignoring key parts of the beat to play more to the melody. Compared to section like 00:54:847 (127) - where there isn't much melody to focus on giving the beat more focus is what I think this difficulty should aim for. More consistent and simplistic rhythms with some spice every now and then from the melody. Overall the map's density feels correct, just the core rhythm feels all over the place. I can go more in depth over discord or IRC with you instead of making a huge wall of a post here. i'll fix futsuu later lmao

[Kantan]
00:31:704 (41,42) - Offbeat + finisher after the previous string of patterns seems a little complex for a kantan, imo. I'd say just use 1 finisher or remove the finish from both of them? removed finishers
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
[EX]
  1. 00:35:990 (233,234,235,236,237,238) - Since this repetition of the rhythm doesn't have the higher pitched fade-out sounds, k ddd k d to acknowledge the bassy rhythms might be nice, just to mix up this otherwise underwhelming part.
  2. 00:47:818 (325,326,327,328) - Do these triplets get acknowledged in any difficulty? Even if you skip it in EX I think at the very least Oni should pop a ddk when they show up. Consistency between diffs to the extent of "ah inner ignores it the rest shall too" is sort of excessive since they're offering different things.

    The diff is great, while some little background melodies get skipped in exchange for following the drumbeat it's never like anyone would miss them anyways.
[Oni]
  1. 00:10:961 - It's obvious that spread is concerning but I think comparing Muzukashii to what you have in Oni now is a little iffy... at least for the start of the song (like up to 27 seconds tbh) I don't think you need to veer too far from something like:


    Because at later parts the disparity is... a bit more forgiving. Parts like 00:41:475 - look great, and while 01:17:133 - looks lame comparing Muzukashii and Futsuu it's a simple part without desperate need for perfect spread (would still maybe touch it a tad).
  2. 01:39:304 (522,523,524,525,526) - Maybe these 5plets can be nerfed to 4, but 01:43:190 (542,543,544,545,546,547,548) - just gets 01:43:304 (543) - removed (01:46:961 - this becoming 4/4/5)? It's close to Oni but Oni itself is nearing EX among the rhythm+patterns being kinda annoying for Oni.
[Muzukashii]
  • Muzukashii is absolutely fine but destined to be modified depending on what goes on around it.
[Futsuu]
  1. 01:56:904 - Maybe add a note? It's totally in line and just slightly mirrors 01:47:647 -

    The way lower diffs have the hardest part of the song be the 1/8 part is off to me since... it doesn't really translate that way in higher diffs, but it works to give the song some kind of difficulty point so, it works!
[Kantan]
In the end this is just another hey consider the following and make your choice Ozzy mod, so no big deal. The spread ting's a bit soft and all dat.
hikiko-
236 posts
Joined May 2015
Topic Starter
hikiko-
thanks for the mod ^
changes

OzzyOzrock wrote:

[EX]
  1. 00:35:990 (233,234,235,236,237,238) - Since this repetition of the rhythm doesn't have the higher pitched fade-out sounds, k ddd k d to acknowledge the bassy rhythms might be nice, just to mix up this otherwise underwhelming part. changed to k ddd d k instead
  2. 00:47:818 (325,326,327,328) - Do these triplets get acknowledged in any difficulty? Even if you skip it in EX I think at the very least Oni should pop a ddk when they show up. Consistency between diffs to the extent of "ah inner ignores it the rest shall too" is sort of excessive since they're offering different things. added triplets to oni

    The diff is great, while some little background melodies get skipped in exchange for following the drumbeat it's never like anyone would miss them anyways.
[Oni]
  1. 00:10:961 - It's obvious that spread is concerning but I think comparing Muzukashii to what you have in Oni now is a little iffy... at least for the start of the song (like up to 27 seconds tbh) I don't think you need to veer too far from something like:
    done

    Because at later parts the disparity is... a bit more forgiving. Parts like 00:41:475 - look great, and while 01:17:133 - looks lame comparing Muzukashii and Futsuu it's a simple part without desperate need for perfect spread (would still maybe touch it a tad).
  2. 01:39:304 (522,523,524,525,526) - Maybe these 5plets can be nerfed to 4, but 01:43:190 (542,543,544,545,546,547,548) - just gets 01:43:304 (543) - removed (01:46:961 - this becoming 4/4/5)? It's close to Oni but Oni itself is nearing EX among the rhythm+patterns being kinda annoying for Oni. simplified section a bit
[Muzukashii]
  • Muzukashii is absolutely fine but destined to be modified depending on what goes on around it.
[Futsuu]
  1. 01:56:904 - Maybe add a note? It's totally in line and just slightly mirrors 01:47:647 - sure, added k

    The way lower diffs have the hardest part of the song be the 1/8 part is off to me since... it doesn't really translate that way in higher diffs, but it works to give the song some kind of difficulty point so, it works!
[Kantan]
In the end this is just another hey consider the following and make your choice Ozzy mod, so no big deal. The spread ting's a bit soft and all dat.
Arrival
1,418 posts
Joined June 2012
Arrival
yo
sv .osu
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 43888
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Normal
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 1
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 1

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 2733,13705,32905,43876,54848,65819,76791,87762,98734,109705,120676,134391
DistanceSpacing: 0.7
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 32
TimelineZoom: 3.199998

[Metadata]
Title:HELIX (Edit ver.)
TitleUnicode:HELIX (Edit ver.)
Artist:ESTi
ArtistUnicode:ESTi
Creator:hikikochan
Version:Inner Oni
Source:O2Jam Analog
Tags:jinbae park mobile u brutal dub and bloody bass ios android lks studiosis
BeatmapID:1584721
BeatmapSetID:625729

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:6
CircleSize:2
OverallDifficulty:6
ApproachRate:5
SliderMultiplier:1.4
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
0,0,"HELIX.jpg",0,100
//Break Periods
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

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256,192,134304,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,192,134390,12,0,138504,0:0:0:0:

you'll find here some changes i made to smoothen some svs i think were a bit too abrupt.
i recommend keeping what i did for patterns like these 00:49:018 (338,339,340,341,342) - / 02:03:075 (192,193,194,195,196) - (sv smoothen 1.3 > 1.23 > 1.17 > 1.12 >1.08 > 1.05 instead of linear 1.3 > 1.25 > 1.2 > 1.15 > 1.1 >1.05)
plus changes at 00:31:704 (202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216) - to make it prettier. feel free to keep what you did before though

i believe the other svs are fine overall


[oni]

00:54:847 - here i think a rhythm finishing at red ticks (like 00:56:047 - ) and starting on the next one ( here 00:56:390 - ), aka skipping the big white tick, would be better and more represeentative of the song than what you wurrently have

01:41:361 - what about adding a note here at every 2 big white ticks ? (so here, 01:44:104 - etc)

lower diffs are prolly safe from nardo
hikiko-
236 posts
Joined May 2015
Topic Starter
hikiko-
thanks for the mod!!
changes

Arrival wrote:

yo

you'll find here some changes i made to smoothen some svs i think were a bit too abrupt.
i recommend keeping what i did for patterns like these 00:49:018 (338,339,340,341,342) - / 02:03:075 (192,193,194,195,196) - (sv smoothen 1.3 > 1.23 > 1.17 > 1.12 >1.08 > 1.05 instead of linear 1.3 > 1.25 > 1.2 > 1.15 > 1.1 >1.05)
plus changes at 00:31:704 (202,203,204,205,206,207,208,209,210,211,212,213,214,215,216) - to make it prettier. feel free to keep what you did before though

i believe the other svs are fine overall kept all your changes


[oni]

00:54:847 - here i think a rhythm finishing at red ticks (like 00:56:047 - ) and starting on the next one ( here 00:56:390 - ), aka skipping the big white tick, would be better and more represeentative of the song than what you wurrently have i'm leaning more towards following the base drum rhythm than the shaping of the synth melody stuff, and since the downbeats are all decidedly heavy i think skipping them would feel forced

01:41:361 - what about adding a note here at every 2 big white ticks ? (so here, 01:44:104 - etc) yeah i adjusted some stuff

lower diffs are prolly safe from nardo
Arrival
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Joined June 2012
Arrival
good luck
anna apple
1,256 posts
Joined March 2014
anna apple
hikikowochan
Kin
2,622 posts
Joined August 2010
Kin
Talked with hikiko about custom hitsound usage & some sliders velocity.
Spread is actually pretty nice despite the huge SR difference. The higher diff really play like a 4.5~5* map
it might be a contreversial map, so to avoid any drama don't forget qualified section is made to get more opinon
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,106 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
my first 7 star pass! i got so good at taiko!
xtrem3x
1,786 posts
Joined July 2009
xtrem3x
just 2 things...

Conflict between samplesets


and the similarity of spread between Oni and Inner Oni, possibly 2 or 4 notes can be erased in Oni.
tatatat
923 posts
Joined March 2015
tatatat
I really think it would be better for the spinner at 01:38:047 - to be at a more sight readable speed, like 2x or 3x Especially since in the future with score V2, not hitting that spinner will count as a miss and break combo. A 4x SV ninja note wouldn't be acceptable, so why should a spinner.
hikiko-
236 posts
Joined May 2015
Topic Starter
hikiko-
xtrem3x: a) conflicting timing points are no longer an unrankable issue even though they show up in modding assistant. i have stuff set the way it is so that ghosttapping before the map starts doesn’t spoil the clock hitsound effect
b) the beginning is sparse enough that it being the same in oni and inner oni is not a problem
tatatat: a ninja spinner is already more lenient than a ninja note. furthermore, whether something is sightreadable or not isn’t in and of itself a quality issue
Last edited by hikiko- , edited 1 time in total.
tatatat
923 posts
Joined March 2015
tatatat
well whatever, I don't like the pp mapping meta much, and I really wish something was done about the silly SR in taiko. but I'll end up playing this map when its ranked anyways for the pp. Good luck mister hikikikokoko.
Aloda
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444 posts
Joined November 2011
Aloda
The conflicting samplesets are fine, however the Oni's is inconsistent with the rest of the diffs, using the custom hit sounds for both lines unlike the rest of the diffs. DQing to let you fix this.

I do also have a couple of other minor irks, so I'll follow up with some further modding asap.
DeletedUser_1981781
DeletedUser_1981781
Well, I'll take advantage of this DQ to point out something I felt really off with the map, and it's this part in inner oni:

00:10:961 - It doesn't seem to match the sound at all I think it should be improved by using the proper snapings that are 1/6>1/4>1/3>1/4 as in here:

(in case the pic is not understandable I put it into a .osu here: https://puu.sh/ApERm/90b9f7c67f.osu )

I think it would be great if you could make that minimum change, it'd improve the map first impression alot imo :c
Aloda
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444 posts
Joined November 2011
Aloda
Just two things.

01:37:361 - I can see what you're going for leaving this empty in the Kantan/Futsuu/Muzukashii/Oni, but as this is a very prominent and clear-cut sound, it feels very unnatural to stop playing there (in the lower diffs in particular). I recommend adding something into these gaps, be it a regular note, or a spinner, somewhat akin to what you used in the Inner Oni.

While most of the 1/8 patterns you've used in the Inner Oni are supported by the song, the set at 00:10:961 (26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33) - is quite unintuitively mapped over 1/6 sounds, and as a result doesn't feel great to play. Similarly, I believe that using 1/3 from 00:11:647 - would be better fitting to the song. I don't recommend going straight into a 1/6 stream here, but you could adjust this to be a simpler 1/4 pattern into 1/3 at 00:11:647 - and back to 1/4 from 00:11:990 - for a much nicer to play pattern that better follows the music.

Let me know once you've had a look over this.
hikiko-
236 posts
Joined May 2015
Topic Starter
hikiko-
fixed oni timing points plus the following:

ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:

Well, I'll take advantage of this DQ to point out something I felt really off with the map, and it's this part in inner oni:

00:10:961 - It doesn't seem to match the sound at all I think it should be improved by using the proper snapings that are 1/6>1/4>1/3>1/4 as in here:

(in case the pic is not understandable I put it into a .osu here: https://puu.sh/ApERm/90b9f7c67f.osu )

I think it would be great if you could make that minimum change, it'd improve the map first impression alot imo :c i didn't look at your mod before applying aloda's and it turns out i did essentially the same thing you did (with 1/6 doublets instead of full 1/6) so there we go i guess

Aloda wrote:

Just two things.

01:37:361 - I can see what you're going for leaving this empty in the Kantan/Futsuu/Muzukashii/Oni, but as this is a very prominent and clear-cut sound, it feels very unnatural to stop playing there (in the lower diffs in particular). I recommend adding something into these gaps, be it a regular note, or a spinner, somewhat akin to what you used in the Inner Oni. filled in sliders (2/1 in kantan, 3/2 in futsuu through oni) and adjusted volumes accordingly

While most of the 1/8 patterns you've used in the Inner Oni are supported by the song, the set at 00:10:961 (26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33) - is quite unintuitively mapped over 1/6 sounds, and as a result doesn't feel great to play. Similarly, I believe that using 1/3 from 00:11:647 - would be better fitting to the song. I don't recommend going straight into a 1/6 stream here, but you could adjust this to be a simpler 1/4 pattern into 1/3 at 00:11:647 - and back to 1/4 from 00:11:990 - for a much nicer to play pattern that better follows the music. adjusted some stuff around and it seems to work better now, lmk what you think

Let me know once you've had a look over this.
DeletedUser_1981781
DeletedUser_1981781

hikikochan wrote:

fixed oni timing points plus the following:
i didn't look at your mod
:( meanie :(
Aloda
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Aloda
All is good.
tatatat
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tatatat
hi
Arrival
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Arrival
ok
_handholding
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Joined April 2014
_handholding
Oni
00:32:047 (161) - looking at how complex this part is in the inner oni couldn't you add something a bit more to portray the extra sound? Like even a spinner or something?
tatatat
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tatatat
hi
Maya Tendo
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Maya Tendo
HELIXで屁理っ屈を展開！ｗ
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