im disappointed
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I do have to say I feel the same way if only because the timing of this is really bad (2 days, nearly 3 after the match?). This should be something 100% verifiable at this point or it's going to leave a lot of upset people. There are already people saying that this situation was caused by Canada bandwagoning against Dargin so it's being thrown in our face as well.
I feel very sorry for you
We asked the user to provide us a video stream (from a phone or better) showing his screen and hands. He did this and four members of the team (including myself) analysed it over the last few days. The delay before we made this announcement was a mixture of us wanting to be 101% sure of what we found, but also due to the amount of time it takes to go through video footage frame-by-frame to find discrepancies (or the lack thereof).
Our standard restriction policies are to not release evidence as it only aids people in learning and improving their ways going forward – releasing such footage would require an unfeasible change to our restriction process.
Furthermore, this was a private request and we explicitly said the video would not be shared beyond the team. The user is free to share the footage on a non-official osu! forum if they believe our decision to be incorrect, but our team is 100% sure about our judgement here.
I understand the emotion behind this, but it is something we all have to come to terms with, unfortunately.
I hate to sound negative but I fear this will cause more problems rather than alleviate them. There's no easy way to resolve this, to say the least. Too much personal stake involved for those who are emotionally invested in this dilemma.
This is absolutely correct, even if some of us disagree with what action has been taken, we shouldn't bash them for it. Let's all play this responsibly and hope for the best.
To be honest this response raises up so many other questions which does not help the situation...
either way we just got to continue moving forward at this point. No good will come from blowing this up more and more.
I've seen videos on Youtube of people trying to cheat in every game mode but I don't know why you'd even do it in Taiko anyway even if you're a scummy cheater who wants fake praise since you gain even less in Taiko cheating than you would in any other mode because so few people play it. In a tournament no less for a game mode barely anyone watches or plays... how sad do you have to be to do this?
So what if some of us don't play Taiko, you might not care but this is a big deal to some of us.
Especially those that care about integrity in a WORLD CUP, and since this happened to the US, it affects those from the country a bit more.
He's going to get shit from community because he screwed his team and there is no stopping that, so you can get your irrelevant ignorant ass out of here.
Also now imagine that something simillar to this happens on Standard OWC or WC of your favorite game mode. What will you think?
This tools which will be used here surely will be also used in all tournaments marked by peppy and his company. So that's so important to do it here as correctly as it is possible, right?
Of course they do.
This is not to say that I don't trust your investigations, but I would appreciate it if there was some kind of video or something showing a review of the footage and an explanation of the cheating method to make it absolutely clear to anyone that it is the truth. Because well, to be honest I'd rather not believe it, so any kind of clear viewable proof would be helpful.
i'm sorry to everyone that believed in USA this entire time.
i have no words to express the shame i feel towards this.
i have no words to express the shame i feel towards this.
is there actual proof of this, like a video or something?
Alchyr wrote:
This is not to say that I don't trust your investigations, but I would appreciate it if there was some kind of video or something showing a review of the footage and an explanation of the cheating method to make it absolutely clear to anyone that it is the truth. Because well, to be honest I'd rather not believe it, so any kind of clear viewable proof would be helpful.
I do have to say I feel the same way if only because the timing of this is really bad (2 days, nearly 3 after the match?). This should be something 100% verifiable at this point or it's going to leave a lot of upset people. There are already people saying that this situation was caused by Canada bandwagoning against Dargin so it's being thrown in our face as well.
Maybe you could show us the recordings of Dargin's gameplay during the Finals?
We don't even know what "tools" he was suspected of using.
We don't even know what "tools" he was suspected of using.
I, for one, am not convinced. I have had rapport with Dargin throughout this process, and he is terrified about the spectre of suspicion raised by what I suspect to be a few players salty that their team lost to a country they wrote off as illegitimate. Evidence? What evidence? Does the fact that Dargin literally does not have the internet speed to stream his hands while he streams his screen, count as evidence? What about this "footage" and "back-end detective work"? I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to see for myself what this staff believes is decisive evidence of cheating.
Dargin has posted a log of his surprise advancement into the US top 2 and World top 50 shortly before the tournament. His shock and glee were palpable and genuine, and there is nothing to suspect that he would cheat to get such an insignificant edge. He was above all that, choosing to not engage with the hellhole of a subcommunity that Taiko has begun to nurture, a scourge no doubt an offshoot of the ubiquitously toxic Standard community. Dargin is not like the others before him: He made his own fame and rank fair and square, getting into the US top 10 without requiring hacks. Why would he now be using them? It just makes no sense.
Dargin has posted a log of his surprise advancement into the US top 2 and World top 50 shortly before the tournament. His shock and glee were palpable and genuine, and there is nothing to suspect that he would cheat to get such an insignificant edge. He was above all that, choosing to not engage with the hellhole of a subcommunity that Taiko has begun to nurture, a scourge no doubt an offshoot of the ubiquitously toxic Standard community. Dargin is not like the others before him: He made his own fame and rank fair and square, getting into the US top 10 without requiring hacks. Why would he now be using them? It just makes no sense.
n1doking wrote:
i'm sorry to everyone that believed in USA this entire time.
i have no words to express the shame i feel towards this.
I feel very sorry for you
Gutted. I'm so disappointed and upset over this. n1doking and the others never deserved this.
Alchyr wrote:
This is not to say that I don't trust your investigations, but I would appreciate it if there was some kind of video or something showing a review of the footage and an explanation of the cheating method to make it absolutely clear to anyone that it is the truth. Because well, to be honest I'd rather not believe it, so any kind of clear viewable proof would be helpful.
Zing wrote:
I, for one, am not convinced. I have had rapport with Dargin throughout this process, and he is terrified about the spectre of suspicion raised by what I suspect to be a few players salty that their team lost to a country they wrote off as illegitimate. Evidence? What evidence? Does the fact that Dargin literally does not have the internet speed to stream his hands while he streams his screen, count as evidence? What about this "footage" and "back-end detective work"? I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to see for myself what this staff believes is decisive evidence of cheating.
We asked the user to provide us a video stream (from a phone or better) showing his screen and hands. He did this and four members of the team (including myself) analysed it over the last few days. The delay before we made this announcement was a mixture of us wanting to be 101% sure of what we found, but also due to the amount of time it takes to go through video footage frame-by-frame to find discrepancies (or the lack thereof).
Our standard restriction policies are to not release evidence as it only aids people in learning and improving their ways going forward – releasing such footage would require an unfeasible change to our restriction process.
Furthermore, this was a private request and we explicitly said the video would not be shared beyond the team. The user is free to share the footage on a non-official osu! forum if they believe our decision to be incorrect, but our team is 100% sure about our judgement here.
I understand the emotion behind this, but it is something we all have to come to terms with, unfortunately.
Oh boy.
Well this is a first, it's a rough situation that's nearly impossible to sort out fairly, especially in the face of the dashed hopes of the US players. And while things may be more or less resolved for the sake of the tournament, I hope any tensions amongst the communities involved can be alleviated.
Toy wrote:
And while things may be more or less resolved for the sake of the tournament, I hope any tensions amongst the communities involved can be alleviated.
I hate to sound negative but I fear this will cause more problems rather than alleviate them. There's no easy way to resolve this, to say the least. Too much personal stake involved for those who are emotionally invested in this dilemma.
This angers me to unfathomable levels.
This...was shocking to find out, to say the very least. It's weird to think that even in osu!, cheaters can make it to the very top & world-stage, only to be ratted out as cheaters. This feels like dejavu to me, since I've seen this kind of situation before in other games.
I do feel bad for the affected US players though, they worked really hard to get where they did in the tournament, only to find out this piece of dumb news.
I understand their decision personally to withdraw from the tournament, but that doesn't make this any less sad in my opinion. Screw Dargin & I'm sorry this happened to the rest of the US team. Hopefully next year they come back stronger than ever before.
I do feel bad for the affected US players though, they worked really hard to get where they did in the tournament, only to find out this piece of dumb news.
I understand their decision personally to withdraw from the tournament, but that doesn't make this any less sad in my opinion. Screw Dargin & I'm sorry this happened to the rest of the US team. Hopefully next year they come back stronger than ever before.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is any good end to this. With so many differing opinions, it's impossible to make people happy without backlash elsewhere. The focus right now should be on keeping the situation under control (not letting it get worse).
I think for now, we just have to trust in the osu! Staff's verdict. Maybe later the user will release a statement clarifying this up. Continuously attacking the staff behind the investigation won't do any of us good.
That sucks...
Nekomaki wrote:
I think for now, we just have to trust in the osu! Staff's verdict. Maybe later the user will release a statement clarifying this up. Continuously attacking the staff behind the investigation won't do any of us good.
This is absolutely correct, even if some of us disagree with what action has been taken, we shouldn't bash them for it. Let's all play this responsibly and hope for the best.
Well, this is kinda a shocker to myself. I hope this doesn't have a super drastic affect on anything even tho it is a emotional and odd situation. My hopes for all players affected the best and a greater taiko future. Happy Playing Everyone 
My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.
The only thing we need is the evidence that proof Dargin is guilty to be exposed. If not tbh I will be skeptical about it.
well alrighty then
Damn, if it's true that the rest of the US players had no idea that the foul play was occurring, then I feel really bad for them. All their hard work and dedication turned moot.
As for the people being skeptical whether the proof was enough to convict Dargin or not, I personally trust the staff and their analysis of the evidence being enough to believe it was foul play. They wouldn't make a HUGE decision like this without having multiple staff members being 100% certain about it.
As for the people being skeptical whether the proof was enough to convict Dargin or not, I personally trust the staff and their analysis of the evidence being enough to believe it was foul play. They wouldn't make a HUGE decision like this without having multiple staff members being 100% certain about it.
This sucks... quite unfortunate that such a promising player has been restricted. Stay strong USA~
I'm getting anxiety, what the actual fuck.
So sorry to hear about this, as a US player I'm empathetic.
n1do noooo
So sorry to hear about this, as a US player I'm empathetic.
n1do noooo
Well imagine my sjokk It seems even cheats can’t beat Taiwan numba wan
peppy wrote:
Alchyr wrote:
This is not to say that I don't trust your investigations, but I would appreciate it if there was some kind of video or something showing a review of the footage and an explanation of the cheating method to make it absolutely clear to anyone that it is the truth. Because well, to be honest I'd rather not believe it, so any kind of clear viewable proof would be helpful.
Zing wrote:
I, for one, am not convinced. I have had rapport with Dargin throughout this process, and he is terrified about the spectre of suspicion raised by what I suspect to be a few players salty that their team lost to a country they wrote off as illegitimate. Evidence? What evidence? Does the fact that Dargin literally does not have the internet speed to stream his hands while he streams his screen, count as evidence? What about this "footage" and "back-end detective work"? I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to see for myself what this staff believes is decisive evidence of cheating.
We asked the user to provide us a video stream (from a phone or better) showing his screen and hands. He did this and four members of the team (including myself) analysed it over the last few days. The delay before we made this announcement was a mixture of us wanting to be 101% sure of what we found, but also due to the amount of time it takes to go through video footage frame-by-frame to find discrepancies (or the lack thereof).
Our standard restriction policies are to not release evidence as it only aids people in learning and improving their ways going forward – releasing such footage would require an unfeasible change to our restriction process.
Furthermore, this was a private request and we explicitly said the video would not be shared beyond the team. The user is free to share the footage on a non-official osu! forum if they believe our decision to be incorrect, but our team is 100% sure about our judgement here.
I understand the emotion behind this, but it is something we all have to come to terms with, unfortunately.
To be honest this response raises up so many other questions which does not help the situation...
either way we just got to continue moving forward at this point. No good will come from blowing this up more and more.
You're welcome to ask further questions; I will answer with as much detail as I can. I don't think asking/answering questions is blowing this up any further.
I've got a question. Do you use any software that scans the processes to find out if a user is cheating?
Wow, what the fuck? Tournaments are more or less a celebration of skill. Cheating in them is just so unfathomably stupid.
Never thought you can actually cheat in a gamemode like Taiko... That's so stupid.
wewlad
yikes
my condolences to the USA team, this has got to hurt really bad
my condolences to the USA team, this has got to hurt really bad
grindersky wrote:
Never thought you can actually cheat in a gamemode like Taiko... That's so stupid.
I've seen videos on Youtube of people trying to cheat in every game mode but I don't know why you'd even do it in Taiko anyway even if you're a scummy cheater who wants fake praise since you gain even less in Taiko cheating than you would in any other mode because so few people play it. In a tournament no less for a game mode barely anyone watches or plays... how sad do you have to be to do this?
This is extremely gut wrenching for the USA team as a whole.
But if he really is cheating, then there's no way to go about it. The next step is to wait for an official response from the player and what staff are planning next. This is too early into the battlefield.
EDIT: Ok, there is a response.
But if he really is cheating, then there's no way to go about it. The next step is to wait for an official response from the player and what staff are planning next. This is too early into the battlefield.
EDIT: Ok, there is a response.
I literally unexpected to see something like this. So sorry for US team.
literally like.....grindersky wrote:
Never thought you can actually cheat in a gamemode like Taiko... That's so stupid.
Can everyone just stop flooding here with irrelevant comments? Especially people who are not related to the taiko community. Just close this thread already and leave the guy alone.
Isla3329 wrote:
Can everyone just stop flooding here with irrelevant comments? Especially people who are not related to the taiko community. Just close this thread already and leave the guy alone.
So what if some of us don't play Taiko, you might not care but this is a big deal to some of us.
Especially those that care about integrity in a WORLD CUP, and since this happened to the US, it affects those from the country a bit more.
He's going to get shit from community because he screwed his team and there is no stopping that, so you can get your irrelevant ignorant ass out of here.
I can't stand people who cheat in video games. Especially in tournaments like this one with a money prize. Dargin deserves every punishment he receives and I feel so sorry for the US Team. Hopefully next year will be different.
Nidoking wrote:
Isla3329 wrote:
Can everyone just stop flooding here with irrelevant comments? Especially people who are not related to the taiko community. Just close this thread already and leave the guy alone.
So what if some of us don't play Taiko, you might not care but this is a big deal to some of us.
Especially those that care about integrity in a WORLD CUP, and since this happened to the US, it affects those from the country a bit more.
He's going to get shit from community because he screwed his team and there is no stopping that, so you can get your irrelevant ignorant ass out of here.
Also now imagine that something simillar to this happens on Standard OWC or WC of your favorite game mode. What will you think?
This tools which will be used here surely will be also used in all tournaments marked by peppy and his company. So that's so important to do it here as correctly as it is possible, right?
I didn't say it's not a big deal for me, sure thing it's bigger for any US taiko player. I just want people to calm down and stop insulting him more, so don't tell me what to do, neither call me ignorant because i DO CARE about him.Nidoking wrote:
Isla3329 wrote:
Can everyone just stop flooding here with irrelevant comments? Especially people who are not related to the taiko community. Just close this thread already and leave the guy alone.
So what if some of us don't play Taiko, you might not care but this is a big deal to some of us.
Especially those that care about integrity in a WORLD CUP, and since this happened to the US, it affects those from the country a bit more.
He's going to get shit from community because he screwed his team and there is no stopping that, so you can get your irrelevant ignorant ass out of here.
We already got response from Happy Stick and the staff, what else do we need?MasterAnimit wrote:
Also now imagine that something simillar to this happens on Standard OWC or WC of your favorite game mode. What will you think?
This tools which will be used here surely will be also used in all tournaments marked by peppy and his company. So that's so important to do it here as correctly as it is possible, right?
Nanika133 wrote:
I've got a question. Do you use any software that scans the processes to find out if a user is cheating?
Of course they do.
This is sad.