DJPop wrote:

You guys always critical unrankable things, but have you guys remembered that there is no rules but they're guidelines. too right

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=439 just guidelines

And I believe some people who critical to this map not ever touch it again when it gets ranked even things are fixed or not.


Why I silence those sliderslide and slidertick? Because I HATE them.
Sliderslide sounds are just like something dragging along the floor, hearing them while playing is freaking annoying.
Slidertick sounds aren't that annoying, but don't match the music in many cases, I'd prefer to mute them even slider tick rate 0.5 no exception. RIGHT

Sakura Hana wrote:

Hold up there, i just got some info that CTB only diffs are unrankable so it cannot be included in this mapset if it wants to be ranked

First was Taiko, and now CTB!? One of the most stupid rule I've ever seen.
If CTB diff is unrankable, while the specific CTB mode option is available to choose?
There are many CTB players now and surely want to play maps which suitable for CTB mode.
Do you want to prevent CTB players to have fun?
Totally agreed

whymeman wrote:

WHY is Steven's CTB 1st offset diffrent from the other difficulties? And what is up with the timing?

Change BPM doesn't mean the speed of falling fruit will change.
That 800bpm is just to make the fruit falling with wider spacings.
You can't take the natural guidelines to judge special case like CTB maps.
Only thing can critical CTB diffs is any type of spacing mods.
true


If there are rules about unrankable things. Make a topic publicly and stick it so everyone knows that whatever they shouldn't do.

Then again, I disagree that silent slider sounds are unrankable, however,
I really more disagree that specific CTB diffs are unrankable.

cheukhin1985 wrote:

Totally agreed DJPop.
Silencing the slider sounds is NEVER a bad idea.
It made the map more ATTRACTIVE and LESS STRANGE, coz' the slider ticks don't match the music Sliderticks were designed to match the song rythm, if they are sound strange, you are doing it wrong
PLUS, those are JUST GUIDELINES, DEFINITELY NOT rules.
STOP complaining about how bad are those difficulties I'm not complaining about how bad the difficulties were, i was only commenting that CTB diffs are unrankable atm
STOP BEING SO RUDE.

cheukhin1985 wrote:

Totally agreed DJPop.
Silencing the slider sounds is NEVER a bad idea.
It made the map more ATTRACTIVE and LESS STRANGE, coz' the slider ticks don't match the music
PLUS, those are JUST GUIDELINES, DEFINITELY NOT rules.
STOP complaining about how bad are those difficulties
STOP BEING SO RUDE.

DJPop wrote:

You guys always critical unrankable things, but have you guys remembered that there is no rules but they're guidelines.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=439

And I believe some people who critical to this map not ever touch it again when it gets ranked even things are fixed or not.

Why I silence those sliderslide and slidertick? Because I HATE them.
Sliderslide sounds are just like something dragging along the floor, hearing them while playing is freaking annoying.
Slidertick sounds aren't that annoying, but don't match the music in many cases, I'd prefer to mute them even slider tick rate 0.5 no exception.

First was Taiko, and now CTB!? One of the most stupid rule I've ever seen.
If CTB diff is unrankable, while the specific CTB mode option is available to choose?
There are many CTB players now and surely want to play maps which suitable for CTB mode.
Do you want to prevent CTB players to have fun?

If there are rules about unrankable things. Make a topic publicly and stick it so everyone knows that whatever they shouldn't do.

Then again, I disagree that silent slider sounds are unrankable, however,
I really more disagree that specific CTB diffs are unrankable.

ZHSteven wrote:

Seriously, I can accept "most of the stuff in standard mod can be also good in CTB diff", but it doesn't mean that we don't need a ctb only map ,because when arrange some of the good partern in ctb diff, it is extremely horrible in standard mode(some unexpected X2 slider, note after or before the spinner, some awesome red jump and max jumps), if you refer to the map inside of my signature, you will see the difference.
Also, diff in standard mode when play in ctb mode can be also awful(like in standard, the continuous triples or long streams with not big spacing may be very fun of play but very boring and stupid in CTB mode, and the so-called"horiZontal jumps" is harm to the ctb mode).
like the famous marisa, kanbu. That will be very fun in standard mode but boring in ctb.
And the most important thing is, joynama, hebi, and me(maybe another pro find it already)find the biggest bug-----"bug jumps(impossible jumps without red fruit" in ctb mode, and it is not easy to fix, So i think we really need to have a specific ctb being approved.

whymeman wrote:

Until the critical fixes are made, the nuke STAYS.

RemmyX25 wrote:

If slider ticks sound wrong, you're doing something wrong.

Sakura Hana wrote:

Instead of trying to add more fire, why don't you try to find solutions to make the map fit to the guidelines instead of complaining about the guidelines so you can make them fit the map?

ZHSteven wrote:

do you notice the tick? that part of music is very soft and slow, but if there is a slider tick sound here it is just like playing music with a high speed metronome..sounds like"don ti ti ti ti ti don"(sorry i am not good at express it ).
do you guys think that it to noise of the music? Hit sound is to make a map can sound much better, and to make the player play the map easier get the rythm of the map. But what if the hit sound is already break the balance and beautiful of the sound? Please think twice.

ZHSteven wrote:

OK for the rule given, I really disappointed when people unrank map just give a reason like "because the rule says that."

ZHSteven wrote:

In my opinion, rule is setting up for the mapper can make map make more sense, much better, and sounds beautiful. So it is really don't need to treat the "rule" as "law". Even "law" is not perfect , then how we can treat the "rule" like a "god"?

ZHSteven wrote:

I think a good way of using the rule is if a mapper break the rule, we may first think of why does he/she break the rule? is it make the map even worse or better? Then the reason your step of rank/unrank map will be more reasonable and trustful. People can easily catch the point you agree/disagree and discuss more on that.
Simple "rules god" theory cannot persuade anyone.

cheukhin1985 wrote:

It made the map more ATTRACTIVE and LESS STRANGE, coz' the slider ticks don't match the music

cheukhin1985 wrote:

PLUS, those are JUST GUIDELINES, DEFINITELY NOT rules.

cheukhin1985 wrote:

STOP complaining about how bad are those difficulties

cheukhin1985 wrote:

STOP BEING SO RUDE.

scarlethana wrote:

if silent these slider sounds will make a map more joyful.
why not have a try?

scarlethana wrote:

when new patterns appears it will always meet criticals.
but i guess mapping in osu needs these creative point so that players will not feel boring.
nobody will be pleased with these new ranked map in a same pattern.

scarlethana wrote:

and i feel "CTB diffs shouldn't be ranked" this is unfair.
just for only few people have CTB mod skill? or score in CTB diffs is high enough?
so why not give CTB player a right to choose they really need instead make a decision for them?

scarlethana wrote:

"Don't use older maps for examples" is a good excuse to cover a 'mistake' ?
at least i don't think mafiamaster did something wrong.
[attachment=0:578c6]1.png[/attachment:578c6]

DJPop wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=26523

Sakura Hana wrote:

DJPop wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=26523

That is a very old post, i'd still prefer whymeman to check into this

mikhe wrote:

Old but this post is true, peppy said it was rankeable then it is rankeable, what is the problem NOW? .__.

P.S: WHY!!, why if taiko players have specific diff, why we can't!!! unfair -.-"

DJPop wrote:

This inform me not to fucked up the rules whatever how unreasonable the rules are

DJPop wrote:

DJPop wrote:

This inform me not to fucked up the rules whatever how unreasonable the rules are

Blue Dragon wrote:

What?...
And this informs us modders to not try to help you whatever how unreasonable is your whining.

DJPop wrote:

Blue Dragon wrote:

What?...
And this informs us modders to not try to help you whatever how unreasonable is your whining.

Then why so many people agree with my unreasonable text?

I have told the reasons, and then I got a nuke.

Blue Dragon wrote:

Who agreed? People who love Hatsune Miku? -.- Also, keep in mind, that a lot of experienced modders/mappers are not agreeing with you.

You told the reasons, but we told you even more reasons saying it's not rankable, you didn't listen and still whined about it, so nuke. Yeah.

Natteke wrote:

Blue Dragon wrote:

Who agreed? People who love Hatsune Miku? -.- Also, keep in mind, that a lot of experienced modders/mappers are not agreeing with you.

You told the reasons, but we told you even more reasons saying it's not rankable, you didn't listen and still whined about it, so nuke. Yeah.

Don't put yourself above anyone ok? Everyone's opinion matters, not only opinions of "experienced modders/mappers".

Blue Dragon wrote:

Call braian5234 here and he'll be right then.

KRZY wrote:

Just offering my two cents:

imo, CTB diffs shouldn't be unrankable. But a CTB diff that makes people go "lolwtf who other than mikhe or kenji or (insert CTB pro here) can FC this" should be unrankable. Remember, CTB diffs should be for CTB players, not CTB pros.

See how taiko diffs have evolved since the first taiko diff was ranked. Take a lesson from the precedent.

DJPop wrote:

KRZY wrote:

Just offering my two cents:

imo, CTB diffs shouldn't be unrankable. But a CTB diff that makes people go "lolwtf who other than mikhe or kenji or (insert CTB pro here) can FC this" should be unrankable. Remember, CTB diffs should be for CTB players, not CTB pros.

See how taiko diffs have evolved since the first taiko diff was ranked. Take a lesson from the precedent.

Play standard diffs with CTB mode then.

Glass wrote:

If the ticking sounds don't fit the song, why would you even use Tick Rate 2; is it just for the score increase? or is it to create some sort of artificial difficulty by making players follow the sliders more strictly. The latter doesn't seem to be the intention considering how easy the sliders are, nobody should really be expected to mess up those sliders even with a high tick rate. Also, if you really insist on using Tick Rate 2, you can simply get a tick sound that actually fits the song, instead of muting them altogether. If those ticks prevented the map from being enjoyable, just don't use them in the first place, how hard is that to understand?

Glass wrote:

This map hasn't been unranked. The MAT/BAT are doing the right thing by making sure the issue get fixed BEFORE the map gets ranked, there will be even more rage if the map actually got ranked and unranked.

Glass wrote:

wat. Rules are made to be followed, if everyone start using that "my old map was able to get away with this error, why can't my new map achieve the same" then we might as well not have any guidelines.

Glass wrote:

The mapper breaks the certain rule because the way he made the map appealed to himself, simple as that. The BATs/MATs thought there was no reason to let this get through with breaking such easy-to-follow rules, which is why the map has been nuked.
I still don't get why you're talking about 'god'.

MetalMario201 wrote:

As a mapper, it's important to distinguish "I don't like the sound of ticks in general" from "The tick sound/frequency is unsuitable to this music." If you just don't like ticks period, feel free to use an osu! skin (as opposed to a map skin) which makes them silent. But it's important to keep a balanced, fair map that fits with osu!'s standards and a player's expectations. Players expect ticks to be present, have a rhythmic quality, not be too (in)frequent, and make a sound. This is their cue that they're completing the slider successfully. (I can and do actually tell if I've 300ed or 100ed a slider based on whether the slide sound cuts out early.)

At the end of the day, this is what ranking guidelines mean: they establish some qualities a player can expect to be true for all maps. osu! isn't an art project--it's a game. So there are times when you need to compromise on your artistic vision to create a better gaming experience.

KRZY wrote:

Just offering my two cents:

imo, CTB diffs shouldn't be unrankable. But a CTB diff that makes people go "lolwtf who other than mikhe or kenji or (insert CTB pro here) can FC this" should be unrankable. Remember, CTB diffs should be for CTB players, not CTB pros.

See how taiko diffs have evolved since the first taiko diff was ranked. Take a lesson from the precedent.


I am not going to star this map.

DJPop wrote:

Great, now I've to wait for him BAT to get this nuke out. But when?

Whymeman wrote:

Until the critical fixes are made, the nuke STAYS.

Sakura Hana wrote:

I still can't hear any ticks >_>

DJPop wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

I still can't hear any ticks >_>

Used MM's hitsound, you can check it.

Sakura Hana wrote:

Try:
00:12:588 (1,2,3) - Volume 60%
Fixed.
00:17:388 (1,2,3) - ^
Fixed.
00:25:788 (1) - Volume 90%
Not fit.

James2250 wrote:

But you used timing sections to make them all silent...?

DJPop wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

Try:
00:12:588 (1,2,3) - Volume 60%
Fixed.
00:17:388 (1,2,3) - ^
Fixed.
00:25:788 (1) - Volume 90%
Not fit.

James2250 wrote:

But you used timing sections to make them all silent...?

Don't tell me there is the law "all ticks must be heard" D:

RandomJibberish wrote:

Well that is kind of the point of the whole silent ticks are unrankable thing

Lunah wrote:

RandomJibberish wrote:

Well that is kind of the point of the whole silent ticks are unrankable thing

where ?

i know so many maps ranked with slider ticks silenced, with timing sections or with the hitsound silenced

Lunah wrote:

RandomJibberish wrote:

Well that is kind of the point of the whole silent ticks are unrankable thing

where ?

i know so many maps ranked with slider ticks silenced, with timing sections or with the hitsound silenced

ignorethis wrote:

2. Stack leniency isn't allowed to be set to minimum, consider moving right 2 or 3 grids. I can see why you use minimum (set to 0.2 and everything messes up), but I need a confirm.
Problems would be unstacked notes, but I've already cleared them.
3. The sliderticks... hmm. I can barely hear them tbh
I've set in some parts, others mess the song.
4. (In every diff) 01:42:888 - 02:02:088: There can be more varieties in rhythm here, not just repeating 1/4 sliders. With some changes the map will look even more great
The vocal is the main part most people would hear while playing.

NotShinta wrote:

Yeah, I'd rather not get too involved in this, but you use the word 'law' like it's here for no reason. Please listen to the useful posts in this thread, and keep them in mind for future maps. Though that's been said before.

Sprosive wrote:

[Prayed]
1.failed
2.failed
3.300 100 miss 100 50 esc retry
4.300 300 300 esc returntomenu ---last version but not approved
5.300 100 missmissmissfail OHSHITF@CKUCHATTICKER
6.fullcombofullcombofullcomboful-(@&$#%#)ohshi
7.kokoniarewamissmissmissmissfail
8.hitaniwananmissmissmissmissfail
9.yay
[attachment=0:10ade]aaa.PNG[/attachment:10ade]

10.99.84% -> 3003003001001005050501001005050100300300300100100100300300300SPIN! 300 50 (plaplapla) 93.19%
11.601combo 100
12.fail
13.95.46%

;_;

Sprosive wrote:

[Prayed]
1.failed
2.failed
3.300 100 miss 100 50 esc retry
4.300 300 300 esc returntomenu ---last version but not approved
5.300 100 missmissmissfail OHSHITF@CKUCHATTICKER
6.fullcombofullcombofullcomboful-(@&$#%#)ohshi
7.kokoniarewamissmissmissmissfail
8.hitaniwananmissmissmissmissfail
9.yay
[attachment=0:9806f]aaa.PNG[/attachment:9806f]

10.99.84% -> 3003003001001005050501001005050100300300300100100100300300300SPIN! 300 50 (plaplapla) 93.19%
11.601combo 100
12.fail
13.95.46%

;_;

Derekku wrote:

[General]
*Uhh, there's a video, but what about a no-video download link? Could you please try a full submission?
Done.
*If you're including ctb elements, then add a fruit-drop to complete the set (even if it's just the default).
Added.
*No Miku comboburst? oxo
No good comboburst found.
*Expected a pause-overlay to go with the pause menu buttons. Not sure if it's absolutely needed, but you should complete the set (especially since you did so on your other Miku maps).
Added.
*Remove "Hatsune", "Miku", and "ZHSteven" from tags. The first are already in the artist, and the last isn't part of the mapset anymore.
Removed.
*Source for Vocaloid songs is usually the creator (so cosMo) with Vocaloid in tags, but I don't even care anymore. x__x
*Another title for this song is "The Singing Passion of Hatsune Miku", so perhaps add "passion" to the tags as well?
Added.
*I'm still not sure about the stack leniency. You have it set to the lowest setting on Hard/Prayed with some manual stacking, but not all notes. I'm pretty sure what you're trying to do is unrankable.
Seriously, you want my map to be like this? (If the stack is 0.3)
*The way you're using soft-slidertick2.wav is still unrankable. First off, it's very quiet in comparison to other hitsounds. Second, you're setting the volume to 0% in the editor (at least mostly on Easy and Normal). Even on Hard/Prayed the volume is too low to be heard and is as good as silent. If the slidertick volume was set to ~80%, it would be audible, but at present state it's not. You tried to do the same thing in Andrea's Euphoric Field map by providing a near-silent slidertick and blatantly rebubbling the map after I popped it, but this time you won't be able to get away with that. Silencing a few ticks is fine (as seen in my mod below), but all of them? Definitely not.
Volume 50 ok?

[Easy]
00:22:188 (1,2) - See, silencing sliderticks on sliders like these are totally fine with me (although I'd expect the tick rate to be lower, especially since the bpm is 200).
01:30:588 (1,2) - The odd time signature makes (2) a bit unexpected. How about making this a slider instead?
Fixed.
01:32:388 (1,2,3,4,5) - Much more difficult than the rest of this diff... I'd expect kick sliders one after another in a Normal, but when the rest of this Easy is mostly 1/1 beats and sliders? Not really..
Not too hard.
01:59:688 (3) - Could you change the first/last ticks on this so that the repeat arrows aren't sideways? Something like this
Fixed.
02:18:888 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - The most difficult part of the song. Again, a bit unexpected for an Easy, so I'd prefer if you made some of these longer.
Fixed.
02:22:488 (7,1) - A bit confusing to have a kick slider and then a spinner come in halfway through. How about moving the spinner to the red tick and shortening it? That would give the same effect but be a bit less confusing.
Fixed.

[Normal]
*How about raising the drain 1-2 ticks?
+1
*I really don't like that the ends of sliders are made silent. That provides no audio feedback for the player and just looks weird. Why not make the slider different if you don't want it to be heard?
Fixed.
00:22:188 (1,2,3,4) - Again, perfectly acceptable to silence these.
01:01:863 (1) - I don't like how this pops up before the last note is even hit. Can you start it on the red tick and shorten instead?
Fixed.
*I suppose the 2x sliders are fine, but I don't like the jumps in-between them. I'd really like to see the spacing from one end of a slider to the start of the next made a bit closer.
I don't see any intense jumps here.
*I like the linear sliders towards the end of the map.
02:23:763 (1) - Again, how about starting on the red tick?
Fixed.

[Hard]
*Again, drain is a bit low.
+2
*Remove "Krisom" from tags.
Non-existed...
01:01:788 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Expected a decrescendo here.
Decreased volume on (7,8).
01:04:188 - Again, I don't mind the silenced slider ticks (and even slider ends) because the music is so quiet here and it fits nicely.
01:18:588 (1) - second repeat is partially hidden (caught me by surprise)
It's fine :<
01:20:988 (5) - ^
It's fine :<
*I felt like most of the crazy kick sliders at the end should have been snapped to 1/3, but 1/4 does sound better, so it's fine.

[Prayed]
00:05:163 (5,6,7,8) - Expected a 5th note (on the white tick)
Added.
00:09:963 (4,5,6,7) - ^
Added.
01:18:588 (1) - 2nd repeat is a bit hidden
It's fine :<
02:18:888 - SO glad this isn't snapped to 1/6th, but nonetheless crazyyyyy.
1/4 is exactly right.

[Kanpakyin's Taiko]
*I usually don't point out unnecessary inherited sections, but 01:42:888 caught my eye since it doesn't seem to be doing anything. o.o
Kiai.
*Expected a break in kiai from 01:36:888 to 01:42:888.
Fixed.
*I'm really not sure how I feel about the use of sixteenth notes (1/4 snap) instead of triplets (1/3 snap). I guess it's fine for Taiko, but would make more sense to follow the 1/3 of the song... EDIT: Actually after hearing the kick sliders on the other diffs, I guess it's not so bad to use 1/4..
1/4 is exactly right.

Overall, you did a very nice job on this map. However, there's still a few issues that should be dealt with (at least the unrankable ones) before another bubble and the eventual rank. I'll be glad to take another look at this after you make some changes.
About stack leniency, 0.1 is unrankable, 0.2 is still unrankable even it's selectable in option, 0.3 is unrankable because stack makes those streams offscreen, so you know about 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, etc.
What else I can do?

*If you're including ctb elements, then add a fruit-drop to complete the set (even if it's just the default).

Derekku wrote:

[General]
*I hate to nazi, but the top of the fruit-drop you added was cut off, so here's a new one: http://puu.sh/BZ6
Replaced.
*Stacking is fine on Hard/Prayed after you elaborated.
=)
*The sliderticks across all difficulties are still inaudible. Like I've said (multiple times), raise the volume to 75-80% for all sliderticks.
50% is not loud enough, and 0% (used all over Easy/Normal) is definitely not loud enough.
The only places that should be appropriate for quiet/silent sliderticks are spots like 00:22:188 (1,2) on Easy.
Fix the sliderticks and I'll give this map the bubble it deserves.
Fixed.

[Easy]
01:59:688 (3) - Second repeat is still sideways, but it's not that big a deal, I guess.
No any problem since you know it's a repeat slider =P

osuplayer111 wrote:

[Easy]
02:28:488 (x) - Remove this unused green line.
Kiai ends.

[Hard]
Stack leniency all to the left is unrankable. Increase it by 1 tick at least like the other difficulties.
Read previous posted before telling this.

[Prayed]
Same as Hard about Stack leniency. Fix that.
Read previous posted before telling this.

01:01:788 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Why you stacked only these notes like that? It's a bit weird.
Manually stacked.
02:09:888 (2,3,4,5) - ^
Manually stacked.

[Kanpakyin's Taiko]
Difficulty settings for a Taiko difficulty are highly suggest to be like this.
Done.

Sorry but I have to pop for now. Oh and since you're here, change "Kanpakyin" to "kanpakyin" into the tags on every difficulty and I'm not sure about another thing...
Done.
Timing at the begin doesn't seems so perfect to me, can you try to ask someone for it please?
-.-
When you're done with the fixes I'll give your bubble back.

osuplayer111 wrote:

About that green line section on Easy, nope... if you see it's unused D:
The other green line make the kiai ends, so please remove that~
You're right, removed.
Oh and you forget to change the tags on every difficulty. Please do it too~
I've already fixed, but just forgot to upload them XD
Btw, after listening and testing many times more timing seems fine... maybe I'm just sleepy x_x
x_x
At the end you should just remove that green line and fix the tags and yeah, you didn't fixed anything of big so I'll rank this.

kanpakyin wrote:

Big change in Taiko

Derekku wrote:

Pff, I was just going to rebubble this, too. Taiko looks fine to me, but I'm still not sure why you (andrea) had djpop uncapitalize one of the tags when case doesn't matter and most of the others are capitalized.

Lunah wrote:

01:52:488 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - WTF ?
Fixed, I think I've already fixed that >_>

Lunah wrote:

01:01:788 (1,2) -
01:02:388 (3,4) -
01:02:988 (5,6) -
01:03:588 (7,8) -
02:09:888 (2,3) -
02:10:338 (4,5) -
if you want show them, let's change the stack leniency, they are so ugly to see.
Don't tell me to do that again, it's impossible.
Why? See my previous posts.