Your "more pertinent question" has no bearing on reality, sadly. The world we live in clearly is one where the state can legitimately subject people to unspeakable tyranny, as they do so frequently. Just ask the people of North Korea. Might does make right (right in the sense of law). You should never forget that. If you do forget it, you might (hah) have to pay for it dearly.B1rd wrote:
Rather than asking whether natural rights exist or not, the more pertinent question is whether they should exist. And the answer is yes, people should have the right to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness, and indeed no one needs those things given to them, they already have them without a government. The alternative is that "might makes right', and the state can legitimately subject people to unspeakable tyranny. It's easy to see who's right here when you advocate for people to be shot for the crime of doing nothing but wanting to be left alone.
forum
ITT 2: We post shit that is neither funny nor interesting
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you're still an idiot lolB1rd wrote:
Rather than asking whether natural rights exist or not, the more pertinent question is whether they should exist. And the answer is yes, people should have the right to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness, and indeed no one needs those things given to them, they already have them without a government. The alternative is that "might makes right', and the state can legitimately subject people to unspeakable tyranny. It's easy to see who's right here when you advocate for people to be shot for the crime of doing nothing but wanting to be left alone.
The state is just a group of people, and the beliefs of the people that make up that group and the people around it decide what power that group has. Thus it's everyone's moral imperative to stand up for what's right, even under threat of persecution. Otherwise you end up with what happened in the Soviet Union, where everyone's cooperation just made it easier to lead people straight into the gulags. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Can you teach me on how you can so politically correct in a way that people will believe me?B1rd wrote:
The state is just a group of people, and the beliefs of the people that make up that group and the people around it decide what power that group has. Thus it's everyone's moral imperative to stand up for what's right, even under threat of persecution. Otherwise you end up with what happened in the Soviet Union, where everyone's corporation just made it easier to lead people straight into the gulags. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Oh, hi there.Tupsu wrote:
you're still an idiot lol
Off to tuuba with you, Mara.
I entirely agree with you.B1rd wrote:
The state is just a group of free markets, and the beliefs of the free markets that make up the free market and the free market around it decides what power that free market has. Thus it's everyone's moral imperative to stand up for the free market, even under threat of persecution. Otherwise you end up with what happened in the Soviet Union, where no free market just made it easier to lead people straight into the gulags. The free market must be refreshed from time time with the blood of faux free markets.
I haven't posted in Tuuba for months mate.
don't mind me I'm just here to call bird a dipshitMara wrote:
Oh, hi there.Tupsu wrote:
you're still an idiot lol
we miss you at tuuba forums you should come back and try to reinvigorate it some more
maybe run a mafia game or something
I really don't know how to refresh it. I'm clearly not the person for the job, seeing how the another project died on the launch day.
Ha, I hope it dies. Good riddance.
Mara, the guy who runs a discord of 200+ people, but thinks he can't revive a local forum of barely 20.
Come you bum, you can do it!
Come you bum, you can do it!
"well maybe if you didn't try to further split an already small community with another forum" - loosely paraphrased from ipep, 2017Mara wrote:
I really don't know how to refresh it. I'm clearly not the person for the job, seeing how the another project died on the launch day.
just invite people some more, that was working for a while
More like about 15. Majority of people are there just for ösy! related news or something and never participate in anything. We're constantly losing members each day since there's nothing interesting to show.Aurani wrote:
the guy who runs a discord of 200+ people
My goal wasn't to split the tuuba's community but simply try to move my own sauna community into forum form. Didn't work.Tupsu wrote:
"well maybe if you didn't try to further split an already small community with another forum" - loosely paraphrased from ipep, 2017
just use the pre existing forum though, it's not like the comms are that hugely different
I'm sure if you asked nicely you could even get a special snowflake subforum, though I'm not sure why you'd want one
I'm sure if you asked nicely you could even get a special snowflake subforum, though I'm not sure why you'd want one
Yeah but they're still there. I'm also there just for 3 people, but I am there - I still count. If they didn't see a reason to be there, they would've left. Fact is, they're all still there, regardless of a reason, and the one holding them all together is you.
You're running the smoothest server I know, with the most interesting things around, so you can definitely not convince me that you can't manage a forum full of ex-osu users.
I do admit that making yet another forum was a pretty...... interesting idea.
You're running the smoothest server I know, with the most interesting things around, so you can definitely not convince me that you can't manage a forum full of ex-osu users.
I do admit that making yet another forum was a pretty...... interesting idea.
I'll think about it, but I am not going to spend any time with any community thing for quite some time. I burned myself pretty hard with constant disappointing results. The discord server needs some cleaning but I really can't bother. Just want to do solo things for a while.
That being said, sauna members won't move to tuuba. I already know that it won't work.
That being said, sauna members won't move to tuuba. I already know that it won't work.
I'd come back any time I got an apology from IppE for deleting my posts.
what is tuuba?
B1rd wrote:
Rather than asking whether natural rights exist or not, the more pertinent question is whether they should exist. And the answer is yes, people should have the right to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness, and indeed no one needs those things given to them, they already have them without a government. The alternative is that "might makes right', and the state can legitimately subject people to unspeakable tyranny. It's easy to see who's right here when you advocate for people to be shot for the crime of doing nothing but wanting to be left alone.
Oh Jesus you're actually spouting molyneux talking points.
2 counter arguments; one being that you suggest all people can pursue life, liberty and happiness without a state existing. This doesn't take unfair discrimination into account at all- your statement would be a lot more accurate in some utopia where nobody is unfairly treated.
Secondly, without a government to provide people safety, the world would very quickly become "might makes right" anyway. There's no avoiding it- at least there's structure when governments are ruling instead of whoever had the best weapons and most soldiers.
additional note: libertarianism and the desire for borders to exist aren't exactly compatible unless you're a xenophobe
Please for the love of god don't speak about the Soviet Union when you have no idea what you are talking about lmaoB1rd wrote:
Thus it's everyone's moral imperative to stand up for what's right, even under threat of persecution. Otherwise you end up with what happened in the Soviet Union, where everyone's cooperation just made it easier to lead people straight into the gulags.
very originalB1rd wrote:
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Yes, I know a thing or two about the Soviet Union.
And no, I don't consider discrimination to be intrinsically bad and I don't consider so-called unfair discrimination to be anything but an subjective judgement that should not be the basis for any laws.
We weren't talking about anarchism, we were talking about natural rights. If you want to debunk the theory of voluntaryism, you'd better come up with a better argument than the tired old assertion that it would instantly devolve into a society where might makes right.
And lastly, there are a number of prerequisites you need to satisfy before you "open borders", so to speak. Getting rid of borders without changing anything else is as good an idea as getting rid of the police force without changing anything else.
And no, I don't consider discrimination to be intrinsically bad and I don't consider so-called unfair discrimination to be anything but an subjective judgement that should not be the basis for any laws.
We weren't talking about anarchism, we were talking about natural rights. If you want to debunk the theory of voluntaryism, you'd better come up with a better argument than the tired old assertion that it would instantly devolve into a society where might makes right.
And lastly, there are a number of prerequisites you need to satisfy before you "open borders", so to speak. Getting rid of borders without changing anything else is as good an idea as getting rid of the police force without changing anything else.
thats fucking gay
I don't have the feeling that anyone wants to discuss this matter, instead you're just all baiting B1rd and telling him, he's stupid.
Or I'm on everyone's ignore-list.
Or I'm on everyone's ignore-list.
Let's look at it this way:
If you try to discuss something with someone and you have thoughts on the matter that are seriously, SERIOUSLY far off from the other person's point of view, there is no reason to discuss it any further. Lack of proper knowledge on the matter means you will NEVER be able to bridge that big of a gap and the discussion is always going to end up with someone going ad hominem.
The only reason to ever continue a discussion is if the other person's point of view is in the same ballpark, but you can't agree on certain intricacies of the matter being discussed.
So, if someone doesn't answer your post or anyone else's for that matter, know that it is because the person simply recognised how it will ultimately end for both parties.
As for Bird - he is far, far from being stupid. I know that the lad has much in him, but sometimes he just comes off as too crude.
The first thing he said when he dropped in was "soviet union" and of course you're going to make fun of it. On top of it, he's known for his free market meme, so some free jokes at his expense must be made, regardless if he's right or wrong about something.
If you try to discuss something with someone and you have thoughts on the matter that are seriously, SERIOUSLY far off from the other person's point of view, there is no reason to discuss it any further. Lack of proper knowledge on the matter means you will NEVER be able to bridge that big of a gap and the discussion is always going to end up with someone going ad hominem.
The only reason to ever continue a discussion is if the other person's point of view is in the same ballpark, but you can't agree on certain intricacies of the matter being discussed.
So, if someone doesn't answer your post or anyone else's for that matter, know that it is because the person simply recognised how it will ultimately end for both parties.
As for Bird - he is far, far from being stupid. I know that the lad has much in him, but sometimes he just comes off as too crude.
The first thing he said when he dropped in was "soviet union" and of course you're going to make fun of it. On top of it, he's known for his free market meme, so some free jokes at his expense must be made, regardless if he's right or wrong about something.
Very true post, hereAurani wrote:
Let's look at it this way:
If you try to discuss something with someone and you have thoughts on the matter that are seriously, SERIOUSLY far off from the other person's point of view, there is no reason to discuss it any further. Lack of proper knowledge on the matter means you will NEVER be able to bridge that big of a gap and the discussion is always going to end up with someone going ad hominem.
The only reason to ever continue a discussion is if the other person's point of view is in the same ballpark, but you can't agree on certain intricacies of the matter being discussed.
So, if someone doesn't answer your post or anyone else's for that matter, know that it is because the person simply recognised how it will ultimately end for both parties.
So you still discuss with B1rd but not with me. This does not make much sense either when you were honest with what you wrote because I don't think I'm farther from your point of view than B1rd is.
Are you referring to Daddy or me? If it's me, I actually believe your statement couldn't be farther from the truth. Bird's point of view is quite far away from mine in most cases, but the reason I like discussing things with him is because of our great relations. I know he will never go for a cheap shot when I'm involved and I respect him for that.
As for you.... what gave you the idea that I wouldn't discuss things with you? I just skipped your post yesterday because I didn't feel in the mood to be discussing it anymore, and then it all turned into a memefest.
If that post wasn't aimed at me, forget what I said. :p
As for you.... what gave you the idea that I wouldn't discuss things with you? I just skipped your post yesterday because I didn't feel in the mood to be discussing it anymore, and then it all turned into a memefest.
If that post wasn't aimed at me, forget what I said. :p
Problem with people who have radically different views than you is that they have fundamentally different presuppositions about the world. The other day I had a leftist tell me, honest-to-God, that hierarchies don't exist without Capitalism and CEOs aren't any more competent than your average worker.
But regarding what was said in this thread, I'm wondering if Vipper is going to just wiggle out of backing up his unprovable assertions, like how I don't know what I'm talking about regarding the Soviet Union.
But regarding what was said in this thread, I'm wondering if Vipper is going to just wiggle out of backing up his unprovable assertions, like how I don't know what I'm talking about regarding the Soviet Union.
Talking about unprovable assertions, do you think that a society without leadership could stabilize itself with nothing but the free market?B1rd wrote:
Problem with people who have radically different views than you is that they have fundamentally different presuppositions about the world. The other day I had a leftist tell me, honest-to-God, that hierarchies don't exist without Capitalism and CEOs aren't any more competent than your average worker.
But regarding what was said in this thread, I'm wondering if Vipper is going to just wiggle out of backing up his unprovable assertions, like how I don't know what I'm talking about regarding the Soviet Union.
Oh Railey my dear boy, do I love you so tenderly, but the free market is never gonna allow me to see you...
You could have a society without any centralised governing body based on the underlying principle of the NAP.Railey2 wrote:
Talking about unprovable assertions, do you think that a society without leadership could stabilize itself with nothing but the free market?
Your post suggested that people were just idly cooperating with Stalin's regime and giving his dictatorship more power, but that's completely lacking the context of his repressive government. People informing on their friends and such were only doing so because they themselves were threatened- similar to what happened in Nazi Germany where informing on Jews was highly 'encouraged'.B1rd wrote:
But regarding what was said in this thread, I'm wondering if Vipper is going to just wiggle out of backing up his unprovable assertions, like how I don't know what I'm talking about regarding the Soviet Union.
Besides, plenty of people would actively try and hide things from the state in the Soviet Union too, although it's hard to get any meaningful statistics- it certainly wasn't a case where everybody simply cooperated with the state, because if that were true, they wouldn't have to behave in such a violent and oppressive manner in order to get what they wanted. Forced disappearances etc due to the secret police,
Basically, you shouldn't be using the Soviet Union as an example of people refusing to do what was morally right despite threat of persecution, because the threat was significant enough to actually control people on a psychological level. Ideals of standing up to a tyrannical government are pretty, but not actually an option to the majority of people living in the USSR.
I don't know why you had to mention Nazis there, when the Soviets did the same thing.
I don't think that would be stable, how would that be able to resist pressure from the inside (people will inevitably use aggressive and underhanded business strategies) and pressure from the outside (foreign invasion, foreign economic aggression)?B1rd wrote:
You could have a society without any centralised governing body based on the underlying principle of the NAP.Railey2 wrote:
Talking about unprovable assertions, do you think that a society without leadership could stabilize itself with nothing but the free market?
Not having a centralised governing body under these conditions just means that you are an easy target for everyone that doesn't play by your self-imposed, highly restrictive rules.
It's a fun thought experiment, but in the end it's also no more than a fantasy.
Aurani wrote:
I don't know why you had to mention Nazis there, when the Soviets did the same thing.
...as another example of what I was talking about, which may be more widely recognised? Did you read the post? lol
Yeah, more widely recognised by people who haven't read 2 books in their life. I won't deny that it's a valid statement, but it's a pet peeve of mine when you need to add an orange from another basket to your basket of apples, simply because you don't care. I like my things tidy, is all.
i have palyed almost an hour of osu straight for the first time in 3,5 years.
i am dying.
also i had a root canal treatment today which was delightful. 10/10 everyone should get 1 or 2.
i am dying.
also i had a root canal treatment today which was delightful. 10/10 everyone should get 1 or 2.
You might be surprised at how little general knowledge there is about the USSR for the average personAurani wrote:
Yeah, more widely recognised by people who haven't read 2 books in their life. I won't deny that it's a valid statement, but it's a pet peeve of mine when you need to add an orange from another basket to your basket of apples, simply because you don't care. I like my things tidy, is all.
The fact is that there was hardly any resistance to the Soviet Regime, informants and alleged criminals were extremely timid and did extremely little to resist, which is what made it so easy to the regime to make arrests on the scale they did with a disproportionately smaller secret police.DaddyCoolVipper wrote:
Your post suggested that people were just idly cooperating with Stalin's regime and giving his dictatorship more power, but that's completely lacking the context of his repressive government. People informing on their friends and such were only doing so because they themselves were threatened- similar to what happened in Nazi Germany where informing on Jews was highly 'encouraged'.B1rd wrote:
But regarding what was said in this thread, I'm wondering if Vipper is going to just wiggle out of backing up his unprovable assertions, like how I don't know what I'm talking about regarding the Soviet Union.
Besides, plenty of people would actively try and hide things from the state in the Soviet Union too, although it's hard to get any meaningful statistics- it certainly wasn't a case where everybody simply cooperated with the state, because if that were true, they wouldn't have to behave in such a violent and oppressive manner in order to get what they wanted. Forced disappearances etc due to the secret police,
Basically, you shouldn't be using the Soviet Union as an example of people refusing to do what was morally right despite threat of persecution, because the threat was significant enough to actually control people on a psychological level. Ideals of standing up to a tyrannical government are pretty, but not actually an option to the majority of people living in the USSR.
It wasn't a case of not "hiding anything", it's a mistake to assume that people were arrested because they did anything wrong, people were arrested simply because they had quotas and needed people for their work camps. That's the fault assumption most people who made, who mistakenly believed that "it wouldn't happen to them because they did nothing wrong" when all evidence pointed to the contrary. Yes, resisting is a perfectly valid opinion when you're going to get 25 years in the gulag any way, and the fact that most people when out of their way to cooperate is why the Soviet Regime were able to do the things that they did on such a large scale.
Well, regardless how I look at it, doing the referendum was one thing. They got lots of international press and opened a good opportunity to accelerate the progress to even get serious talk on the topic going when the spanish government was literally keeping Catalonia under wraps before.
Actually trying to go with the head through the wall by announcing to declare independency...I don't know really what good is supposed to come from doing it that way.
Actually trying to go with the head through the wall by announcing to declare independency...I don't know really what good is supposed to come from doing it that way.
The only difference is that functions normally handled by the state (police, military, consumer watchdog organisations, et cetera) will be handled by private organisations rather than state-enforced monopolies. People who aggress against other people will still face consequences for their actions.Railey2 wrote:
I don't think that would be stable, how would that be able to resist pressure from the inside (people will inevitably use aggressive and underhanded business strategies) and pressure from the outside (foreign invasion, foreign economic aggression)?
Not having a centralised governing body under these conditions just means that you are an easy target for everyone that doesn't play by your self-imposed, highly restrictive rules.
It's a fun thought experiment, but in the end it's also no more than a fantasy.
No one ever got their own way by being passive.Endaris wrote:
Well, regardless how I look at it, doing the referendum was one thing. They got lots of international press and opened a good opportunity to accelerate the progress to even get serious talk on the topic going when the spanish government was literally keeping Catalonia under wraps before.
Actually trying to go with the head through the wall by announcing to declare independency...I don't know really what good is supposed to come from doing it that way.
True, and as I wrote I think it was a good move to make the referendum but like...you have to find some sort of middle ground.
Fighting for independence should not make you abandon logic. As I wrote earlier, it depends heavily on the stance of the EU how this entire thing will work out. If they keep pushing like that, they won't get recognised and end up getting shot down. Which creates a very interesting situation in its own way because that would still cause a massive political destabilisation of the european framework. And the way it happens I'm not really convinced by its positive effect on society, even with my sort of anarchistic view points.
Fighting for independence should not make you abandon logic. As I wrote earlier, it depends heavily on the stance of the EU how this entire thing will work out. If they keep pushing like that, they won't get recognised and end up getting shot down. Which creates a very interesting situation in its own way because that would still cause a massive political destabilisation of the european framework. And the way it happens I'm not really convinced by its positive effect on society, even with my sort of anarchistic view points.
Hey B1rd, the video on your userpage is broken, just saying to let you know!
(◕‿◕✿)
(◕‿◕✿)
It's not broken, the video got shoa'd by (((Youtube)))
Engaging discussion in ITT as usual.
olde
and right now we are in ye midel OT, don't you think?
*midleDJ Enetro wrote:
and right now we are in ye midel OT, don't you think?
By the time we reach ye newe OT, we're all going to pretty much sufferDJ Enetro wrote:
and right now we are in ye midel OT, don't you think?
If we needed a civil war to get to midle OT, then we would have to suffer through something like osu!Forum War I to get to newe OTColdTooth wrote:
By the time we reach ye newe OT, we're all going to pretty much sufferDJ Enetro wrote:
and right now we are in ye midel OT, don't you think?
Look I'm not up for a civil war. This place would just nuke itself over and over again, and that is something that I, nor anyone else in the staff, have to witness. This place just needs a bit more tidying up. Let people post for all we care, just read simple rules, actually have decent common sense and don't be stupid. Who fucking cares if old OTers are better, we're all equally shit.
You don't have to witness it.
All you have to do is getting consumed.
All you have to do is getting consumed.
Haha, no, I have a special place that won't get bombarded. I already have my escape route planned. I am not going to witness blood.Endaris wrote:
You don't have to witness it.
All you have to do is getting consumed.
this place is such a joke
throw something at us. A topic of discussion or something. You see shit only because there isn't something rolling. Start something and it will continue until the next distraction (new page, random meme post, etc), and push a bit more after the distraction to maintain course.Foxtrot wrote:
this place is such a joke
I miss the days when i could just post on the forums and like 5 of my friends were active at the same time and we would just mess around for a while. I don't really know many people anymore because most of them joined after i became less active.
Frontline girls has some nice fanart.
mmh no. it's not like my opinion was different when things were rollingabraker wrote:
throw something at us. A topic of discussion or something. You see shit only because there isn't something rolling. Start something and it will continue until the next distraction (new page, random meme post, etc), and push a bit more after the distraction to maintain course.Foxtrot wrote:
this place is such a joke
(inb4 I post about quality again and start the next OT!Civil war)
Everyone has equal responsibility, call it filial piety or something. Being nice to everyone else is the bare necessities.
Everyone has equal responsibility, call it filial piety or something. Being nice to everyone else is the bare necessities.
you don't know what filial piety even means, do you? and equal responsibility is out of the question when users are voluntarily visiting this forum. don't force people in doing something they don't want to do.DJ Enetro wrote:
(inb4 I post about quality again and start the next OT!Civil war)
Everyone has equal responsibility, call it filial piety or something. Being nice to everyone else is the bare necessities.
Fucking collab, I don't recognise my own posts anymore.
Foxtrot just wants her Blitzfrog to start posting in ITT.
Aurani wrote:
Foxtrot just wants her Blitzfrog to start posting in ITT.
same lolEndaris wrote:
Fucking collab, I don't recognise my own posts anymore.
people complain about stuff they haven't tried hard enough making better.Foxtrot wrote:
mmh no. it's not like my opinion was different when things were rolling
you're really on my case, aren't youabraker wrote:
people complain about stuff they haven't tried hard enough making better.Foxtrot wrote:
mmh no. it's not like my opinion was different when things were rolling
Yes, but I don't want to weigh it much on you, so I'll just make it a— brief caseFoxtrot wrote:
you're really on my case, aren't you
weigh on me? you're funny. also you must be real proud of thatabraker wrote:
Yes, but I don't want to weigh it much on you, so I'll just make it a— brief caseFoxtrot wrote:
you're really on my case, aren't you
nope. That is shit compared to the masterpiece I let loose earlier today.Foxtrot wrote:
also you must be real proud of that
i'm here to mess with you anytime bby.silmarilen wrote:
I miss the days when i could just post on the forums and like 5 of my friends were active at the same time and we would just mess around for a while. I don't really know many people anymore because most of them joined after i became less active.
also non-collab profile pics are always superior to collab ones.
Collab avatars are fun if you keep them long.
Me and Aurani are actually coming up to our four years.
EDIT: maybe I mean three. I don’t know.
Me and Aurani are actually coming up to our four years.
EDIT: maybe I mean three. I don’t know.
all good things must come to an end (:Hika wrote:
Collab avatars are fun if you keep them long.
Me and Aurani are actually coming up to our four years.
EDIT: maybe I mean three. I don’t know.
<3Tanzklaue wrote:
i'm here to mess with you anytime bby.
You're just salty because nobody does one with you.Tanzklaue wrote:
also non-collab profile pics are always superior to collab ones.
unfortunately I’m too lazy to change my avatarAomi wrote:
all good things must come to an end (:
just return my boyfriend back in one piece
how many boyfriends do you have woman
just 1
aurani
aurani
It's been less than a week and people are already dropping out of the OT collab. Jesus Christ guys, stick to your avatar for a while.
Heck
so what am i to you nowHika wrote:
just 1
aurani
my bestie
what the fuck i got bamboozled
hm fair enough
hm fair enough
Ever been brother zoned?
"you do now"
actually no
actually no
except he's not hmmHika wrote:
just 1
aurani
the plot twist of all plot twists
same tbh
Thanks, it's part of the gay OT collab that people are already leaving before it's even a week old.
Hi Milkshake o/