that monstrata salt
good map tho
good map tho
Because of the way you keep repeating that the map is trash and that MAZZERIN THE GOD makes better metal maps.Gokateigo wrote:
I can play the map ht, ok ht/nomod are different things but it doesn't change the map + I forgot to vote 1 starKynan wrote:
Gokateigo if cancerous people like you who can't even play the map weren't allowed to vote and appear in the "user rating", then we'd see a way more positive one. Using NF shouldn't allow people to rate the map IMHO.
(and why am I cancerous I just gave my opinion and answered to salty guys)
:thinking:Gokateigo wrote:
(and why am I cancerous I just gave my opinion and answered to salty guys)
I didn't say Mazzerin was a god, I said his style fits very well to metal, not like this trash style. I won't change my mind, stop talking about thatKynan wrote:
Because of the way you keep repeating that the map is trash and that MAZZERIN THE GOD makes better metal maps.Gokateigo wrote:
I can play the map ht, ok ht/nomod are different things but it doesn't change the map + I forgot to vote 1 star
(and why am I cancerous I just gave my opinion and answered to salty guys)
They have different mapping styles ffs let him be.
:thonkang: looks like this is a lost case, time to move on boyzGokateigo wrote:
not like this trash style.
why are you even talking in the thread then LOL get the fuck out your "opinion" doesn't matter hereGokateigo wrote:
I won't change my mind, stop talking about that
Instead of fucking around how about you actually make a mod and help improve the map instead of stating "I don't like it and you can't refute me because it's my opinion > : (( ( (( ("Gokateigo wrote:
I won't change my mind, stop talking about that
your mind is garbage so stfuGokateigo wrote:
I didn't say Mazzerin was a god, I said his style fits very well to metal, not like this trash style. I won't change my mind, stop talking about that
Already modded it, waiting for answers[ Space ] wrote:
Instead of fucking around how about you actually make a mod and help improve the map instead of stating "I don't like it and you can't refute me because it's my opinion > : (( ( (( ("Gokateigo wrote:
I won't change my mind, stop talking about that
I tought you were in my blacklistLinada wrote:
why are you even talking in the thread then LOL get the fuck out your "opinion" doesn't matter here
You can't say it's a good style, it's ugly on purpose and as I said (too much times tbh but it looks like you love monstrata's dick) Mazz's maps aren't ugly (most of the time) and it fits to "ugly" songs. Now if you can't understand what I am saying just stfuKynan wrote:
looks like this is a lost case, time to move on boyz
E X A C T L Y, you don't seem to understand that this is what monstrata wants, he made it ugly to fit the song, and him being able to do that when we know he can map other maps much 'cleaner' shows that this can't just be monstrata being lazy.Gokateigo wrote:
You can't say it's a good style, it's ugly on purpose stfu
This right here is why this map should be ranked. The mapping and the song bring something special to the table that really has not been done before. This map is something far out there in terms of uniqueness and it is important that a gem such as this gets the recognition it deserves. Honestly? I am disappointed that this map had far too much resistance for no well explained reason.Monstrata wrote:
The ugly sliders work well because there is a juxtaposition to a more beautiful section later. If there was no beautiful section later, then there'd be nothing really to juxtapose the aesthetics.
A huge part of the community doesn't have the skill required to even play this map, nor do most have enough mapping knowledge to grasp an understanding of what is exactly wrong with this map.Gokateigo wrote:
osu! is a community based game, if a huge part the community doesn't like a map (obvious in this cse, seiously look at the user rating) the map shouldn't be ranked, especially when it uses such a controversial mappingGasai wrote:
If you're going to bubble or veto it, give good reasons that the mapper can actually consider and implement to make the map better and that 'better' being the 'better' in your opinion and not necessarily the thousands of people playing the game.
Not here to reply for monstrata but...Gokateigo wrote:
The gimmick isn't used in some ugly parts, I looked at the map and modded it with the gimmick in head, sometimes the map has good patterns (perfect angles, flows perfectly...) in ugly parts like these perfect pentagons here 00:38:356 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - or the squares here 03:45:634 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - it's not a really ugly part with the vocals etc, but it uses the same instruments + the high sound in the bg literally fuck your ears
Experimental metal often has a lot of unpredictable rhythms to it. They're usually a sort of "controlled chaos" and not completely random, but if you think this is extremely cacophonous then I'd advise you to step outside of your musical comfort zone a bit.Opsi wrote:
There are very few maps (if there even are) like Alien, but tell me; is there another song like Alien? It's a fucking mess of exorcised screams that not even Mazzerin would map, that suddenly cuts out to a loli singing about...wanting to be kidnapped by an alien...? (whattheactualfuck.jpeg)
please note that i mentioned the loved section with the sole purpose of proving that there was no decent scores on this map, i consider a map playable when the player can get 98% or more acc. this was definitely not the case.Monstrata wrote:
@Kagetsu: A lot of analysis and discussion has gone into this map's patterning and playability so it is a disservice to everyone here if you just give a blanket statement that it's "unplayable" without giving specifics for me to explain to you.
Isn't the map currently AR10? That's what it says for the current pending version lol.Kagetsu wrote:
the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns.
He's saying that the liminations of the editor (AR 10) is the problem.kobolddragon wrote:
Isn't the map currently AR10? That's what it says for the current pending version lol.Kagetsu wrote:
the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns.
Hopefully I'm not taking your statement out of context.
in terms of approach rate, playing a 190 bpm 8.5 ar map with dt would be the same as a 285 bpm map with ar 10. that's what i meant to say.kobolddragon wrote:
Isn't the map currently AR10? That's what it says for the current pending version lol.Kagetsu wrote:
the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns.
Hopefully I'm not taking your statement out of context.
Playability is certainly something that should be taken into consideration, however as long as it is not unreasonable a map can be, for all purposes, unplayable. There are many examples of unplayable maps that should be and are ranked and I don't see why this is an exception.Kagetsu wrote:
i'm remarking these two because i believe they have a lot to do with the map playablity.
but the transition is just unpredictable.
not because it isn't supported by the music, but rather because it's unplayable.
i believe unplayable maps doesn't fit the ranked section,
need a complete rework in order to make it playable,
i think you're severely underestimating the reading capability of players, and just because most maps at this bpm with dt end up with higher ar doesn't necessarily make those comfortable to read eitherKagetsu wrote:
please note that i mentioned the loved section with the sole purpose of proving that there was no decent scores on this map, i consider a map playable when the player can get 98% or more acc. this was definitely not the case.
if you want a deeper explanation about why the playability of this map is bad, i would have to say that it's a sum of things: first would be the editor limitations, you've stated that there are players who are capable of playing maps around this speed, the fact that you're not considering, though, is that they do it with dt, where you can play at higher ar and od. i'm remarking these two because i believe they have a lot to do with the map playablity. the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns. it's debatable whether or not we should choose upon not the best way of making things because of the editor limitations, you might have your own opinion as well as i can have mine.
ok so i'll leave the transition into the jumps for monstrata to respond to, but these jumps are far from impossible, i've even hit them myself as a 4 digit player, nowhere near the skill level of, say, the top 50Kagetsu wrote:
another point: we all know this a complex song, and as such, it will always tend to be harder to play than common songs, what i don't understand though, is why you're using such a bad transitions when changing the bpm, for example, on 02:55:471 - this section, the bpm increases by 14 units yet you decided to use full screen jumps, which aren't bad in paper, because the music is strong enough to support jumps, but the transition is just unpredictable. you could've been considered a smoother way to put these sections together, by using less spacing/pasive objects or whatnot.
i consider this specific pattern 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - as near to impossible to hit (unless you're using touchscreen), the distance is just too much and the rotations aren't the best either, you might argue that you're using "uncomfortable movement" in order to accentuate the music, but the truth is that the higher the bpm is, the less you feel the difference between awkward and non-awkward movements, this is because the bpm makes all the beats awkward to play already. the worst transition here would be 02:55:787 (2) - to 02:55:893 (1) - especially because the rotation changes on 02:55:893 (1) - which makes it very hard to hit. you might want to move 02:55:999 (2) - somewhere to the up side of the screen in order to "fix" that.
in any case, the distance is still something debatable, again, not because it isn't supported by the music, but rather because it's unplayable. i'm pretty sure there's no one that can consistently hit this pattern 3 times in a row when going throughout the entire map, otherwise prove me wrong.
the movement is actually smoother than you may expect, the aesthetics seem very rough, but while actually playing through it your movement simplifies itself quite a bit and some of it is even comfortableKagetsu wrote:
i believe unplayable maps doesn't fit the ranked section, and that's why tag4 maps were moved to the loved one. believe it or not, your map shares some similarities with tag4 maps: difficult patterns, rough movements, high spaced objects combined with a very high object density in the screen (this due to low ar considering how fast the bpm is) etc.
now i'm not saying that mapping this song is completely impossible, but it would need a complete rework in order to make it playable, because nerfing some patterns would end up unbalancing the map.
about how countering the veto, i honestly think that we won''t reach an agreement, i'm just using my right to vote about whether or not this map should be qualified, i've decided upon no. the veto system is nothing more than a voting system after all.
Thank you!Ephemeral wrote:
if you have nothing constructive to say - say nothing.
will start handing out large silences to people who don't understand this. contribute meaningfully to the map by helping out instead of arguing over each other's opinions plz
We discussed this in a lot more depth over discord chat. I hope this short reply is sufficient considering the log discusses everything much more thoroughly over literally a whole hour.Kagetsu wrote:
please note that i mentioned the loved section with the sole purpose of proving that there was no decent scores on this map, i consider a map playable when the player can get 98% or more acc. this was definitely not the case.Monstrata wrote:
@Kagetsu: A lot of analysis and discussion has gone into this map's patterning and playability so it is a disservice to everyone here if you just give a blanket statement that it's "unplayable" without giving specifics for me to explain to you.
if you want a deeper explanation about why the playability of this map is bad, i would have to say that it's a sum of things: first would be the editor limitations, you've stated that there are players who are capable of playing maps around this speed, the fact that you're not considering, though, is that they do it with dt, where you can play at higher ar and od. i'm remarking these two because i believe they have a lot to do with the map playablity. the current ar is far too low. it feels like playing a 190~ bpm map at ar 8.5 which is obviously not the best setting when it comes to smoothly read the patterns. it's debatable whether or not we should choose upon not the best way of making things because of the editor limitations, you might have your own opinion as well as i can have mine. We discussed everything here in the irc.
another point: we all know this a complex song, and as such, it will always tend to be harder to play than common songs, what i don't understand though, is why you're using such a bad transitions when changing the bpm, for example, on 02:55:471 - this section, the bpm increases by 14 units yet you decided to use full screen jumps, which aren't bad in paper, because the music is strong enough to support jumps, but the transition is just unpredictable. you could've been considered a smoother way to put these sections together, by using less spacing/pasive objects or whatnot. This has been analyzed in detail already. Please refer to Hobbes2's analysis of it on: p/6145650. They are indeed playable, and the transition is very much anticipated because the repeating up/downward sliders train the player to move upward on the next circle, and therefore, downward again the circle after.
This is already very smooth.
i consider this specific pattern 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - as near to impossible to hit (unless you're using touchscreen), the distance is just too much and the rotations aren't the best either, you might argue that you're using "uncomfortable movement" in order to accentuate the music, but the truth is that the higher the bpm is, the less you feel the difference between awkward and non-awkward movements, this is because the bpm makes all the beats awkward to play already. the worst transition here would be 02:55:787 (2) - to 02:55:893 (1) - especially because the rotation changes on 02:55:893 (1) - which makes it very hard to hit. you might want to move 02:55:999 (2) - somewhere to the up side of the screen in order to "fix" that. The rotation does not change at all... The jumps are symmetrical so all rotations are mathematically constant... It's the same difficulty as every other jump that's off-center symmetrical.
in any case, the distance is still something debatable, again, not because it isn't supported by the music, but rather because it's unplayable. i'm pretty sure there's no one that can consistently hit this pattern 3 times in a row when going throughout the entire map, otherwise prove me wrong.
i believe unplayable maps doesn't fit the ranked section, and that's why tag4 maps were moved to the loved one. believe it or not, your map shares some similarities with tag4 maps: difficult patterns, rough movements, high spaced objects combined with a very high object density in the screen (this due to low ar considering how fast the bpm is) etc.
now i'm not saying that mapping this song is completely impossible, but it would need a complete rework in order to make it playable, because nerfing some patterns would end up unbalancing the map.
about how countering the veto, i honestly think that we won''t reach an agreement, i'm just using my right to vote about whether or not this map should be qualified, i've decided upon no. the veto system is nothing more than a voting system after all.