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R E A L T A L K (the state of this section)

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autoteleology
763 posts
Joined October 2014
autoteleology
I personally think that there are still three more stickies that can go

How to make spinners symmetrical is a thread that does not need stickied. Is this somehow still an issue in 2017? How hard is it to make a circle and center align it?

Skinnable files list is obsolete. That info is all in the wiki.

How to adjust my skin.ini is also obsolete for the same reason.

It would also be great to have some kind of separation for questions and FAQs, and skins. I think it would be smarter to make the main forum for questions and a subforum for skins, because the people who are asking questions are the ones who are more likely to put their thread the first place they see. I also think that the rules should be made the sole announcement and everything else made a sticky so that that thread is the first thing you see when you come into the forum as it is on top and separated from everything else
Last edited by autoteleology , edited 1 time in total.
O2MasterFX
496 posts
Joined April 2014
O2MasterFX
Well, the wiki has been replaced with the new site so the thread has to be around for some times until the wiki is completed.

And make spinner symmetrical thread should go to FAQ section, like you suggested.
Geroyuni
67 posts
Joined February 2016
Geroyuni
Here's something. Honestly just throwing ideas at you guys, found this interesting. Text inside that box is just an example.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

Philosofikal wrote:

I personally think that there are still three more stickies that can go
How to make spinners symmetrical is a thread that does not need stickied. Is this somehow still an issue in 2017? How hard is it to make a circle and center align it?

You'd think that, but the thread existed, so clearly some people did have trouble with that in the first place.

Philosofikal wrote:

Skinnable files list is obsolete. That info is all in the wiki.
How to adjust my skin.ini is also obsolete for the same reason.
It would also be great to have some kind of separation for questions and FAQs, and skins. I think it would be smarter to make the main forum for questions and a subforum for skins, because the people who are asking questions are the ones who are more likely to put their thread the first place they see. I also think that the rules should be made the sole announcement and everything else made a sticky so that that thread is the first thing you see when you come into the forum as it is on top and separated from everything else

Yeah, I guess adding a link to the both wiki pages for skinning information for the time being would be better suited as that can be more freely updated by anyone. Also I might keep the default skin thread announced as well. In the future it won't matter so much though since on the new forums, stuff is either pinned, or not pinned.
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles

Philosofikal wrote:

How to make spinners symmetrical is a thread that does not need stickied. Is this somehow still an issue in 2017? How hard is it to make a circle and center align it?
Yes, it still is, especially for newbie skinners.

Speaking of newbies, what about ppl reposting OPs?
RockRoller
Global Moderator
2,410 posts
Joined May 2016
RockRoller

Philosofikal wrote:

Skinnable files list is obsolete. That info is all in the wiki.
The list on the wiki isnt as good as the list. The list also features way more informations.

Stefan the english is really easy, but many people can't even understand that little bit english. Maybe translating at least the rules to another languages could be an idea.

And h3oCharles, what are OPs?

Edit: I also really like the idea to seperate completed skins, Skins that are WIP/pending for completet status and question/general talk about skinning.
Lyawi
Global Moderator
3,604 posts
Joined February 2015
Lyawi

RockRoller wrote:

Stefan the english is really easy, but many people can't even understand that little bit english. Maybe translating at least the rules to another languages could be an idea.
Why people shouldn't be able to understand simplified English. I don't like your idea
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
OP = Opening Post/Poster
I've had a talk with him about that, and it's a bit more tricky to combat as there's no actual way to stop it. For the moment, it's something that needs to be manually dealt with.
RockRoller
Global Moderator
2,410 posts
Joined May 2016
RockRoller

Lyawi wrote:

RockRoller wrote:

Stefan the english is really easy, but many people can't even understand that little bit english. Maybe translating at least the rules to another languages could be an idea.
Why people shouldn't be able to understand simplified English. I don't like your idea
Rethinking about that, it would be stupid.. they could read the rules but couldn't do anything more..
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles

RockRoller wrote:

I also really like the idea to separate completed Skins, Skins that are WIP/pending for complete status and question/general talk about skinning.
+1 on that, ppl can look at WIP skins and give feedback while not getting lost in the already answered questions that are here for <1 year
RockRoller
Global Moderator
2,410 posts
Joined May 2016
RockRoller

h3oCharles wrote:

+1 on that, ppl can look at WIP skins and give feedback while not getting lost in the already answered questions that are here for <1 year
But I think it would be hard to do it. There are 116 Pages in this forum (112 or so after some got moved to completed) you would need to sort.
crystalsuicune
6,436 posts
Joined May 2008
crystalsuicune
Wait,hold the goddamn phone.

We have mods?!



Jokes aside,this place does need a major clean-up.It's been slightly better these days,
but there's those times when mixed skin after mixed skin pop up and you're getting tired
of reminding them of the rules.

It probably hurts more when original skins get pushed down the thread list by mixed skin #562346326

Of course there's bound to be people who know about the rules and decide to ignore them anyways,
but hopefully making the rules more visible would help with the bunch who would follow the rules if they knew about them.


As for the Completed Skins subforum…To be honest that post from deadbeat a page or two back rubbed me the wrong way.
Sure we could work together to manage the quene and not place the burden on deadbeat alone,
in the end it's the -mods- who have the forum tools to move threads.
You can't just start a project like this,run off,then blame us for not doing the job you're supposed to be doing.

Least we could do is recompile another new Skin Emporium and boot off the old thread I guess?
In that case then what's the point of keeping the subforum around in the first place?
If it's for better visibility,then returning to a single stickied thread again would be a step backwards.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

crystalsuicune wrote:

As for the Completed Skins subforum…To be honest that post from deadbeat a page or two back rubbed me the wrong way.
Sure we could work together to manage the quene and not place the burden on deadbeat alone,
in the end it's the -mods- who have the forum tools to move threads.
You can't just start a project like this,run off,then blame us for not doing the job you're supposed to be doing.
Yeah, I do agree. I do have no one to blame aside from myself, however the point I was trying to get across is that mods aren't the only who should have to do everything. I'd rather encourage people to help out more in small ways and not just leave all the heavy lifting to the mods. Sure we're the only ones with the powers required to lock/move threads, but at the same time, people are always free to reach out to us to ask for help. Waiting for help to arrive on it's own doesn't really work all the time.
I hope that kind of explains myself a bit better. Explanations and stuff have never been a strong point of mine.
Last edited by deadbeat , edited 1 time in total.
Lee
21 posts
Joined February 2015
Lee

crystalsuicune wrote:

To be honest that post from deadbeat a page or two back rubbed me the wrong way.
Sure we could work together to manage the queue and not place the burden on deadbeat alone,
in the end it's the -mods- who have the forum tools to move threads.
You can't just start a project like this,run off,then blame us for not doing the job you're supposed to be doing.
I think you slightly misunderstood the purpose of deadbeats original post regarding extra help from outside the official osu moderation team, overall he's suggesting in a strong fashion that users outside the respective administration should contribute towards a better skinning subforum (or in general just help out where it's needed).

Not only does he mention that, but in a similar fashion he states that "it's not the moderators job to take care of everything", we're a community, we can literally support the forum or game in any way shape or form. All that this takes is less discussion and more action from the community itself. These demands for change won't happen faster with or without the help of the moderation team and you will only stress them more by pressuring that they are not "doing good enough" or doing "nothing".

We're supposed to inspire new changes, not force them. The same way as we shouldn't force someone to do everything them self just because we haven't been crowned an official licensed moderator.

Correct me if you disagree in any way but it's annoying to watch pages and pages of requests and changes when all the changes that are being made are forced to be done by 2 people, you can always stretch out a hand in my opinion.

(edit: just realized deadbeat replied, this is slightly awkward but all of this was written before any replies were made)
crystalsuicune
6,436 posts
Joined May 2008
crystalsuicune

deadbeat wrote:

crystalsuicune wrote:

As for the Completed Skins subforum…To be honest that post from deadbeat a page or two back rubbed me the wrong way.
Sure we could work together to manage the quene and not place the burden on deadbeat alone,
in the end it's the -mods- who have the forum tools to move threads.
You can't just start a project like this,run off,then blame us for not doing the job you're supposed to be doing.
Yeah, I do agree. I do have no one to blame aside from myself, however the point I was trying to get across is that mods aren't the only who should have to do everything. I'd rather encourage people to help out more in small ways and not just leave all the heavy lifting to the mods. Sure we're the only ones with the powers required to lock/move threads, but at the same time, people are always free to reach out to us to ask for help. Waiting for help to arrive on it's own doesn't really work all the time.
I hope that kind of explains myself a bit better. Explanations and stuff have never been a strong point of mine.
In that case fair enough.
We're in this shit together after all,and sorry if I came off as being a dick.
RockRoller
Global Moderator
2,410 posts
Joined May 2016
RockRoller
You guys are right, this place is a mess and needs a clean-up. There are many mixed-skins left in this forum, which got never deleted.
ANd yes, we should help the mods (deadbeat), but there isn't much left we can do. The queue for the ccompleted skins subforum is nearlly finished. Most people did'nt submitted there skins :/

The only thing we can do is send the mods link to mixed.skins if we still find some
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

crystalsuicune wrote:

In that case fair enough.
We're in this shit together after all,and sorry if I came off as being a dick.
No, it's fine. I don't mind people calling me out like that. Feel free to do so.
crystalsuicune
6,436 posts
Joined May 2008
crystalsuicune
By the way did someone mention something about making the main forum for questions and a subforum for skins?
I'd say questions/tutorials work better as their own subforum really (even better if said forum's divided further by sections like interface/std/taiko/ctb/mania?)

Right now,all questions are shoved into one single megathread.Now while that means you only need to deal with one thread,it also means you have to comb through the whole thread just to see if your question has been asked before.There's in-thread searching at least,but IIRC the search function is a bit on the clunkier side (as in it shows really old posts first so you don't get the latest info) I'm not sure if that's fixed in the new forum design,but yeah.

Besides,it also means there's pretty much zero organization within the thread,everything's all jumbled up.

Having a separate subforum for questions declutters things and makes it easier for skinners to find/give advice more effectively.
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles
Problem is, is that there's already a Help forum
Caput Mortuum
1,854 posts
Joined March 2016
Caput Mortuum
General questions subforum for mapping exists and it's barely used or even visited
Most people will just go over help for technical issues
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles
Just came to my mind, there was somewhere that skinning thread template thingy, maybe change it so it can have some BBCode?
atturbo555
199 posts
Joined January 2015
atturbo555
And bad things. Mixed skin is comeback Again.
Without Screenshots, Made in osuskinner.com, weeb title & more.
From Skinning Guidelines -> Skinning Rules & They're Not read again. :thinking:

I don't sure we need more skin mods. Or don't need any skin mods.

O2MasterFX
496 posts
Joined April 2014
O2MasterFX
^ Calm down, there will always mixed skins for now. We're discussing this together about the future of skinning section. Dedbit, Stefan, and Flanster are the only mods around. They have other things to do too. For now we help them by inducing every other people to read the rules and reduce other people's interest about their mixed skins.

I see you around in mixed skin thread. It's good that you remind them. Next time, if you see someone already remind the thread owner. Don't remind them anymore. If they haven't been told, remind them, then let it go into wasteland, unless they give explanation to their skin. We need to make them go into page 2 as fast as possible, so other people won't see their mixed skins.

Once the decision has been made, mods will start cleaning this subforum and we (hopefully) won't see mixed skins anymore.
Last edited by O2MasterFX , edited 1 time in total.
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles
I've been told by deadbeat that we can Forum PM or Discord DM him links for threads that need investigating. Use that to your advantage I guess
O2MasterFX
496 posts
Joined April 2014
O2MasterFX
Yeah, but we can't fully rely on him. He has things to do too. Right now, we need to make mixed skins go to page 2 (or page 3 if possible, even page 4, odd page 5).
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
I'm kind of tempted to just put a full halt on mixed skins. I feel like it'd be better to just promoted original content, while still allowing things like collaboration skins and being able to pick up and finish unfinished skins (with permission though).

This whole mixed skins are ok with permission sounds nice in theory, but I feel like moving away from that is the better move here. I'd need to discuss with other mods first though. Some might have other viewpoints on this.
Dinostache
34 posts
Joined April 2014
Dinostache
I think there should be a place specific for mix skin.
Sure, mix skins are a plague for skinners.
Some player don't care, some care.
I like mix skin but nobody do it in a good way.
I do enjoy when a random guy tweaks some skins to make them more playable.
But i rater do it myself because i feel like I don't respect the rules.
most people create mix skin for them self and they share them. I think this doesn't makes sense because it's a personal skin.
Sure, It does make sense when you are a popular player and you have 99 thousands and plus fans.
But everyone can make a mix skin in 24 hours and this is the reason why the ratio in the skin thread is terrible!
I think if we could add a ranking system for skin or a simple thread for mix skin should help a little bit.
Nobody can shut down or kill this plague but redirecting it can be possible.
I could be wrong, I'm not a good skinner. I do mix skins a lot but i don't share them at least! #triggered
RockRoller
Global Moderator
2,410 posts
Joined May 2016
RockRoller
Sure, some player might enjoy mixed skins, cause they kight be better than the original.
But this place isn't for sharing the best playable skin. This place is for sharing original skins. No matter if they are good playable or not.
If somebody want a good playable skin, he/she should download the most popular skins like yugen or from any top player.
A ranking for skins? I think we allready have it. The Views a post gets are more or less the ranking.
crystalsuicune
6,436 posts
Joined May 2008
crystalsuicune
Y'know,at this point I kinda wish we could sage our posts,
that way we can remind them of the rules without bumping the thread.

Likewise,personally I think mixed skins are only okay if it's not being shared here.
If it's something like a personal skin then idgaf what you put on it,but things are different if you want to actually -share- the skin.
Liquorset
46 posts
Joined September 2015
Liquorset
.
Last edited by Liquorset , edited 1 time in total.
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles
also, who's maintaining osuskinner? what about getting more approvers for that site so it can evolve?

so when someone posts mixed skins how about directing them to make an account on osuskinner and upload all of the elements?
RockRoller
Global Moderator
2,410 posts
Joined May 2016
RockRoller

h3oCharles wrote:

also, who's maintaining osuskinner? what about getting more approvers for that site so it can evolve?

so when someone posts mixed skins how about directing them to make an account on osuskinner and upload all of the elements?
Essovius is the owner of the site.

Why let them upload everything? Its allready there..
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles
before the elements would be visible, they have to be approved before they would be visible, so...
-yuo-
428 posts
Joined August 2015
-yuo-
Ahem cof cof

osu!lazer
osu!next
osu!themes browser seen on next.ppy.sh

Ranked / approved skins coming?

It's a good time to improve skinning publicity and credit, we don't get much in the news too

Still appreciate the efforts to reduce mixed skins though, good job
I have no ideas at the moment, but yeh just wanna put this out there

Maybe make a varification code to put into skin.ini?


>publicity, we need (I want) a skin page similar to most modern app stores nowdays, but this is a secondary matter.



I'm walking around outside my computer pls don't yell at me to fix my download links
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles
Skinning but it has approval system like Mapping does :thinking:

Honestly, I don't think that's going to work in the long run
-yuo-
428 posts
Joined August 2015
-yuo-
i gawt an ideaa


ok ok so

when u post a skin, like normal, you can do whateva u want. mixed skin or not.

but there will be a 'poll' at the top. It's three options are

Original
Mixed
In Progress

If one option reaches 10 votes from the community:
original: stays up forever
Mixed: 24hrs till deletion for time to remove stolen elements, remove post altogether or gather permission
In Progress: the 'poll' will stay up but 'paused' untill a new update or finished.


come to think about it, does the 'in progress' tag even matter?

i would love to photoshop up a mockup but i'll see if i have time.
RockRoller
Global Moderator
2,410 posts
Joined May 2016
RockRoller
This idea sounds stupid for me.
A ranking system for skins would also mean that ranking criteria are needed. We have a completed skins subforum, thats enough.

The poll doesnt make sense for me. You say we could post what we want, but if 10people say it is a mixed skin it will get removed. I cant see how that would be useful.
Mixed skins are forbidden and will get removed. Original Skins are Skins in the subforum and WIP is everything that is in the forum. Thats how it is atm (howit would be if people would submit their skins) and it is god.
-yuo-
428 posts
Joined August 2015
-yuo-
that's exactly the point, this helps remove extra skins, though this lightens the work of the mods.

an also, replace 'in progress' tag to 'completed' tag which moves it to completed skins after 10.
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles
bumping this so this ain't going to drown

and just so it's not that useless, starting from 2017-07-01 to the time of posting this... take a look at the wall of these links... this smells like Hydra heads for me... cut one off, two more grow... some of them are solved, some of them are not

AND PLEASE, DO NOT POST IN THESE

t/612502
t/612418
t/332072
t/612074
t/612573
t/612579
t/613642
t/612643
t/614226
t/614298
t/614266
t/614482
t/205453/start=15 "so many op dupes omg"
t/614709
t/614821
t/614966
p/6122164
p/6122713
t/615465
t/615283
t/614822

plz enjoy forum

these are all from a PM conversation between me and deadbeat. Also, thanks atturbo555 for finding some of them
atturbo555
199 posts
Joined January 2015
atturbo555
So, yep. Now everyone can't see my reply on new mixed skin.
Because I'm lazy to reply it, Some skin I don't sure "that is mixed skin?", Everyone is tired of seeing my reply, And important I DON'T WANT TO GET MAD.
And thanks for h3oCharles for report mixed skin to deadbeat.

R.I.P.SKIN RULES
MIXED SKIN ARE COMEBACK AGAIN.
autoteleology
763 posts
Joined October 2014
autoteleology
Why are we wasting time cutting heads off hydras, the only way to stop the problem is to make it impossible to not follow the rules to some degree, and minimize the impact to the forum where leeway is given to post unrestricted

I still think we wouldn't have this issue if we separated the forum into different subforums:

- a subforum queue for new skinning content where a new topic can be posted by anyone, and is then evaluated to be moved into the following subforum or be deleted, which would also give the benefit of highlighting up and coming content by virtue of only having a small amount of content inside it at once as completed/good stuff is moved out and bad stuff is being deleted

- a subforum for "completed skins" that meet the criteria for passing the above queue, that can only have new topics be made by mods/have threads from the above subforum moved into, but anyone can post inside threads

- a subforum for community voted "best of skinning", same posting rules as above - we can have monthly or so votes by the skinning community to highlight the best skins made by the community, gives everyone a goal to strive forward aside from the vague "get more popular"

- make the main forum for FAQs/questions/skin elements/random bullshit

Even if the above system is not perfect it is still way better than the current "throw everything into one giant box and let it fight for the single front page" system we have now
Geroyuni
67 posts
Joined February 2016
Geroyuni
Please, if someone's already posted about the skin being mixed, let the thread die - don't needlessly push it back to the top just to say the same thing.
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles
Philosofikal, are you ready to file a report somewhere? Issues or Help?
atturbo555
199 posts
Joined January 2015
atturbo555
Now is big problem for mixed skin. Nowhere to post mixed skin. http://osuskins.info/ server is in the maintenance.
reddit it not good for some newbie. I can't do anythings for skinning forum. And big problem every newbie skinner is can read English.
But they are break rules. OK, What is going next on skinning forum?
autoteleology
763 posts
Joined October 2014
autoteleology

h3oCharles wrote:

Philosofikal, are you ready to file a report somewhere? Issues or Help?
Why would I need to do that?
h3oCharles
1,502 posts
Joined July 2016
h3oCharles

Philosofikal wrote:

h3oCharles wrote:

Philosofikal, are you ready to file a report somewhere? Issues or Help?
Why would I need to do that?
dunno, just so other staff can notice it..?

Also, I might've been salty in that post
Lyawi
Global Moderator
3,604 posts
Joined February 2015
Lyawi
It will always happen, some people just don't read the rules at the beginning and that's okay. Just give them an explanation and the rule/s about it and everything should be done.

Writing this here now because some of you get really mad when people break the rules even if they don't know about it. You guys should chill a bit more and give them the things in a nice way.
MaximumTilt
36 posts
Joined August 2015
MaximumTilt

h3oCharles wrote:

t/205453/start=15 "so many op dupes omg"
An interesting thing to notice here is that the people who did it only have one post.

Smells fishy.......
O2MasterFX
496 posts
Joined April 2014
O2MasterFX
they think quote button is like button, or share them
Essovius
53 posts
Joined January 2015
Essovius
Hi, I am the creator and manager of osuskinner.com

I never said that to anyone "you could share these things on the forum". Unlike I told them "these skins are for only personal use, you don't have permission to share it on osu!forums". But people keep doing this, unfortunately I can not do anything to stop it. If you have any suggestion I'm ready to listen gladly.

I'm running this site alone. That's why doing things take a lot of time. I'm already working to add some new features like Saving & Listing skins made through osuskinner. Maybe it helps to share mixed skins in our site not on this forum.

I'm also working to make easier the approval phase (Here you can see). In this way everyone will be able to show and vote pending elements.

And other thing is "suggestion for element creator". This field is currently not working flawless. You can write what you want in this field. But If everyone can make suggestions in this field, I think they will work correctly.

Although my goal is helping non-skinners, I know that without skin creators this website can not help anyone. So I want to help skin creators If there is an issue with my site.

Thanks.

(Forgive me if there is a grammar mistake, English is not my natural language.)
crystalsuicune
6,436 posts
Joined May 2008
crystalsuicune
I suppose the issue is that people can freely upload skin elements without the consent of the skinner,
and the skinner won't even know that their stuff is being stolen unless they check the site regularly.

Would it be possible to introduce some form of screening process?
Maybe when someone wants to submit a skin element to the gallery,they need to show proof that they got permission?
Or in the case of skinners uploading their own stuff,the psd file they used?

This will obviously slow the submitting process,but at least we can be more sure that anything being uploaded are done with
the skinner's approval.


But then I'm just spitballing here,feel free to suggest something else if this is too farfetched
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