BanYa & Warak - Beethoven Influenza [OsuMania]‬ · forum‬

stupud man

Joined November 2012

stupud man 2016-12-12T03:52:16+00:00

The majority of the parts are similar to the insane diff because going even further with the difficulty (whether the pitch relevancy is right or not) makes the chart unplayable. There's a reason the chart has a positive user rating, and it's because 1) nobody bothers to use user rating and 2) the people who did actually bother played the insane difficulty or even easier ones, where there isnt necessarily anything uncomfortable about them. I have only talked to 1 person who actually liked the Infection difficulty, and it mainly has to do with the amount of longjack charts they play (eg. LR2 jack scale). It's an unconventional "skill" that doesn't really determine if you have any. It's a gift to move your forearms at a high speed without doing much reading of the chart.

So about pitch relevancy. There comes a time when pitch relevancy genuinely doesn't matter whatsoever, because following perfect pitch relevancy will eventually only make a chart more uncomfortable (see Dysnomia 8K prior to it's current version, where following pitch relevancy lead to extremely uncomfortable death jacks that didn't belong with the rest of the chart. this should sound familiar). That being said, pitch relevancy can still be noticed when playing small bursts of patterns (eg. FC's Blastix Riotz, he doesn't chart the 256bpm jumptrills as a single 256bpm jack. that's fucking outrageous). So, I think it's appropriate here to focus on playability over pitch relevancy, and no, a 24 note 170bpm longjack isn't playable by any means.

I will admit I hadn't looked at the Insane difficulty, and that was an error on my part. I'm going to try to put some time away to revise any mod I've made that's too similar to the Insane difficulty and buff it so there's at least some signs of difficulty increase, while keeping the map playable.

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2016-12-12T04:55:50+00:00

Edit: i will say other things later

Last edited by Akasha- 2016-12-12T11:12:11+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Kawawa

Kawawa 2016-12-12T09:23:34+00:00

okay when you done, call me again.

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2016-12-12T10:33:16+00:00

stupud man wrote:
The majority of the parts are similar to the insane diff because going even further with the difficulty (whether the pitch relevancy is right or not) makes the chart unplayable. There's a reason the chart has a positive user rating, and it's because 1) nobody bothers to use user rating and 2) the people who did actually bother played the insane difficulty or even easier ones, where there isnt necessarily anything uncomfortable about them.

this has nothing to do with the user rating. the similarity was intended to give a different variation in terms of gameplay and it does not change anything about comfortability
just because this chart is not your cup of tea, I don't see the need of mentioning the chart is not compatible or unplayable

stupud man wrote:
I have only talked to 1 person who actually liked the Infection difficulty, and it mainly has to do with the amount of longjack charts they play (eg. LR2 jack scale). It's an unconventional "skill" that doesn't really determine if you have any. It's a gift to move your forearms at a high speed without doing much reading of the chart.

somehow you did mention about "skill" and "gift", well each individual has their own "gift" and "skills". like this map is focusing on less usage of chordstream
for those who are bad on sightreading but has the jack/spamming skills

think about it. do you consider yourself as the person who has a clear understanding in it? if you think this is an abuse. i would have put 6 notes spam for the final part on each difficulties like i did in Influenza diff

stupud man wrote:
So about pitch relevancy. There comes a time when pitch relevancy genuinely doesn't matter whatsoever, because following perfect pitch relevancy will eventually only make a chart more uncomfortable (see Dysnomia 8K prior to it's current version, where following pitch relevancy lead to extremely uncomfortable death jacks that didn't belong with the rest of the chart. this should sound familiar). That being said, pitch relevancy can still be noticed when playing small bursts of patterns (eg. FC's Blastix Riotz, he doesn't chart the 256bpm jumptrills as a single 256bpm jack. that's fucking outrageous). So, I think it's appropriate here to focus on playability over pitch relevancy, and no, a 24 note 170bpm longjack isn't playable by any means.

as a mapper, they must already know the limitations for what the music based for,

this was intended for a challenge. however, it depends on the song, the rhythm and the bpm itself. it is mapper's choice to decide whether to make it a trill or jack or etc...

Updated some fix on Stupud's mod

stupud man

156 posts

Joined November 2012

stupud man 2016-12-13T02:32:17+00:00

ExPew wrote:
just because this chart is not your cup of tea, I don't see the need of mentioning the chart is not compatible or unplayable

stupud man wrote:
I have only talked to 1 person who actually liked the Infection difficulty, and it mainly has to do with the amount of longjack charts they play (eg. LR2 jack scale).

Like I said, this chart bothers a lot more people than just me, just check the disqus comments. Unfortunately, I'm usually the only person who posts in the threads about these charts.

ExPew wrote:
somehow you did mention about "skill" and "gift", well each individual has their own "gift" and "skills". like this map is focusing on less usage of chordstream
for those who are bad on sightreading but has the jack/spamming skills

I understand that each player has their certain skillsets, and I understand that this chart has little to no usage of chordstreams, which is why I made the minijack mod. I was expecting nothing from the chordstream mod to go through. My original point though was that longjacking isn't necessarily a skill. You shouldn't be able to play an unbelievably difficult chart with your eyes closed, only using whatever strength you have in your forearms.

ExPew wrote:
think about it. do you consider yourself as the person who has a clear understanding in it? if you think this is an abuse. i would have put 6 notes spam for the final part on each difficulties like i did in Influenza diff

Anybody who has the capability of playing a chart has the ability to critique it, and like i said earlier I just so happen to be the only person who ever really speaks out. When I say that the patterns you put in your chart are deemed as uncomfortable by the vast majority of players, that doesn't mean make it worse.

ExPew wrote:
as a mapper, they must already know the limitations for what the music based for,

And if a mapper doesn't know that limitation, they aren't doing their job well, right?

ExPew wrote:
this was intended for a challenge. however, it depends on the song, the rhythm and the bpm itself. it is mapper's choice to decide whether to make it a chordstream or jack or etc...

However it's not the mapper's choice to decide that a chart is comfortable when many players think otherwise. Let's say I made a 2 minute audio file that was 999bpm, and I charted a 16th longjack for the entire song. I could argue forever about how comfortable it is, and ignore every other player's opinion about how the chart is uncomfortable. So should the chart be deemed comfortable, because the mapper said so?

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2016-12-13T06:37:22+00:00

if people were that serious about the disqus comments, i bet most of the mappers already felt demotivated or maybe quit right away. like how does disqus became a base of your arguments if the comments are mostly meme stuff? imo they should have posted their thoughts in the thread itself to make it more constructive and relevant.

longjacking was there for a reason, i'm not going to repeat what i have explained in my reply towards your mod.

then why did you mentioned about comfortability at the first place even in your mod? as i said it was intended for a challenge, this has nothing to do with comfort. as a modder, it is worth to mention that you SHOULD know the common sense to avoid overriding the mapper's creativity. by your logic, two mapsets of the same song created by different mapper should be synchronized as long as there are elements that people feel comfortable when playing, and it must not based on the mapper's choice to decide the variety or the uniqueness of the mapset, right?

thats it, i rest my case.

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2016-12-13T10:49:57+00:00

BanYa & Warak - Beethoven Influenza [OsuMania modding]

[Generals]
- BPM: Okay
- Offset: Okay
- AiMod: Okay
- Tags: Okay
- BG: Okay
- Kiai: Okay
- Metadata: Okay
- Folder’s problem: None
- Hitsound: Okay
- Timing: Okay
- Other: Okay

Bubbled
(Cancer)

Congratulations!

Since reply more will just going to make an endless war so I will just rebubble instead as the map was already fine to me. Best of luck!

Last edited by Akasha- 2016-12-13T13:50:21+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Another Lie

Another Lie 2016-12-13T12:36:22+00:00

Well, i read all that reason / mod / whatever it is.
It is worth to read, congrats for bubble ExPew.
I'll support you *shoot 3 stars*

Nivrad00

556 posts

Joined October 2012

Nivrad00 2016-12-14T04:11:35+00:00

I love Infection and I had this in my favorites a long time before it was iconed, so I thought I should at least show my support ^^

Plenty of people have voiced their support in this thread, so I have to admit I'm dubious about stupud man's claim to represent the vast majority of opinions. But I'm sure he's spoken to more community members about this map than I have – and, like he said, it's possible some of these supporters are focusing on the lower diffs – so I'll have to defer my opinion. Either way, I'm proud to support this map, no matter how controversial it is. Worst thing that could happen is that people don't play it (but I'm sure every unranked mapper already knows what that's like hahaha)

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2016-12-14T12:31:31+00:00

Nivrad00 wrote:
Worst thing that could happen is that people don't play it (but I'm sure every unranked mapper already knows what that's like hahaha)

i get what you mean ahaha, thanks for supporting this map from beginning.

Kawawa

Kawawa 2016-12-14T15:19:12+00:00

Some changed.

22:53 ExPew: wake up! it's loli time
23:11 Kawawa: oh
23:12 Kawawa: I woke up now.
23:16 ExPew: you late 1 min
23:16 Kawawa: sorry
23:16 Kawawa: okay are you ready
23:17 ExPew: if tou 10:11
23:17 ExPew: real lo:li
23:17 Kawawa: loll
23:17 Kawawa: I have to check something?
23:18 ExPew: i got few things changes
23:18 Kawawa: I noticed now
23:18 ExPew: according to stupud's mod on this LN
23:18 ExPew: 00:26:233 (26233|3,26233|4,26410|5) -
23:18 Kawawa: first
23:18 Kawawa: http://puu.sh/sPfS5/0565888779.jpg
23:18 Kawawa: this changed
23:19 ExPew: ah yes
23:19 ExPew: much better i think current one
23:19 ExPew: i thinking about LN need to change
23:19 Kawawa: okay, I fully remember before one.
23:19 ExPew: the pattern
23:20 Kawawa: so I know now what changed.
23:20 Kawawa: 02:01:351 (121351|5,121527|5,121616|5,121704|5,121792|5,121880|5,121969|5,122057|5,122145|5) - 
23:20 Kawawa: what do you think about move to 5?
23:20 Kawawa: 02:01:527 (121527|5,121616|5,121704|5,121792|5,121880|5,121969|5,122057|5,122145|5) - 
23:20 Kawawa: 02:01:351 (121351|5) - because of this one.
23:20 ExPew: if move 5
23:21 ExPew: this note should be same too
23:21 ExPew: 02:02:233 (122233|1,122233|0,122322|0,122322|1,122410|1,122410|0,122498|0,122498|1,122586|5,122586|4,122675|4,122675|5,122763|5,122763|4,122851|4,122851|5) -
23:21 ExPew: how about it?
23:21 ExPew: http://puu.sh/sPfZ1/1018510af1.png
23:22 ExPew: those who left thumb give little pain here abit
23:22 Kawawa: ` hmm..
23:23 Kawawa: or like? http://puu.sh/sPg4A/730f51a751.jpg
23:24 ExPew: oh you just rearrange on previous part
23:24 ExPew: good
23:24 Kawawa: yeah
23:25 ExPew: changed
23:25 Kawawa: okay let me suggestion something
23:26 Kawawa: 01:06:116 - this part.
23:26 Kawawa: http://puu.sh/sPge4/7c25afec15.jpg
23:26 Kawawa: what do you think?
23:28 ExPew: both fine
23:28 Kawawa: up to you, but I recommend you to move them a bit.
23:28 ExPew: changed
23:28 Kawawa: like screenshot.
23:29 Kawawa: 02:08:498 (128498|6,128586|6) - wanna keep this?
23:30 ExPew: i move this 02:08:586 (128586|6) -  to 6th col
23:30 Kawawa: okay
23:30 Kawawa: that's all.
23:31 ExPew: before it
23:31 Kawawa: seems better than old version.
23:31 ExPew: i want you update this diff
23:31 ExPew: and rename to test or something else diff name
23:31 Kawawa: okay.
23:32 Kawawa:  
23:33 ExPew: ok i going to update and you open the reference
23:33 ExPew: check new changes
23:33 Kawawa: okay.
23:34 Kawawa: done.
23:35 ExPew: done
23:36 ExPew: point the timeline which you checked new changes
23:36 Kawawa: yeah, I doing now.
23:37 Kawawa: 01:17:057 - 
23:37 Kawawa: oh this changed?
23:37 Kawawa: http://puu.sh/sPgLz/756d496d2d.jpg
23:37 ExPew: yes
23:38 Kawawa: I think right version is more better.
23:38 Kawawa: personally.
23:38 Kawawa: than left.
23:39 Kawawa: 01:21:998 (81998|4) - This LN. can't be snapped? till  01:22:263 - 
23:39 Kawawa: or change as normal note.
23:39 ExPew: still got more you noticed?
23:39 ExPew: alright i can explain your point
23:40 Kawawa: http://puu.sh/sPgSv/5d262502a3.jpg
23:40 ExPew: you can see the 1/4 ln here 01:17:763 - 01:19:175 - 01:20:586 -  everything  i made is same
23:40 Kawawa: yeah 2 notes. short LN
23:40 ExPew: to make more consistent
23:40 ExPew: i need to follow them together
23:41 Kawawa: okay.
23:43 Kawawa: confirmed.
23:43 Kawawa: no more change?
23:43 ExPew: ill point out some missing
23:43 ExPew: this 00:26:233 (26233|3,26233|4,26410|5) -
23:44 ExPew: do you need to change new pattern this measure line?
23:44 Kawawa: nah.
23:44 Kawawa: I like this one.
23:45 ExPew: you might not notice this
23:45 ExPew: 00:53:410 -
23:46 ExPew: 01:10:704 -
23:46 Kawawa: 00:53:410 - I knew it.
23:46 Kawawa: And I understood why you changed it, so agreed.
23:46 Kawawa: 01:10:704 - this is, I did not know
23:46 Kawawa: noticed now.
23:46 ExPew: alright
23:47 Kawawa: 01:10:704 - 
23:47 Kawawa: okay seems good than before.
23:47 Kawawa: but I like old ver too.
23:47 ExPew: some of stupud's point i considered to make little nerf
23:47 ExPew: still maintain 4 fingers here
23:47 ExPew: dont worry xd
23:47 Kawawa: okay.
23:48 ExPew: alright that's only
23:48 ExPew: nerfed this too 01:52:704 -
23:48 Kawawa: wait.
23:48 Kawawa: 01:27:204 (87204|5,87204|4,87292|6) - 
23:48 ExPew: 02:12:116 - improve some pattern looks more neat
23:48 Kawawa: I feel weird here.
23:48 Kawawa: when I played.
23:49 ExPew: ah
23:49 Kawawa: especially a lots.
23:49 ExPew: my sightreading bad here
23:49 ExPew: probably i randomly press stair to make less life drop
23:49 Kawawa: yeah.
23:50 Kawawa: let me feedback
23:52 Kawawa: hmmm
23:52 Kawawa: hard to make new idea.
23:53 ExPew: well this 2015 pattern
23:53 ExPew: hh
23:54 Kawawa: you want to keep them?
23:54 Kawawa: or want to make better?
23:55 ExPew: current my idea lacks of LN used now
23:55 ExPew: tbh my ln mapping skills deproved
23:56 ExPew: this would be better??
23:56 ExPew: http://puu.sh/sPhAH/16dc9a1c40.jpg
23:57 Kawawa: hmmm
23:58 Kawawa: http://puu.sh/sPhF5/b0a8c448c7.jpg
23:59 Kawawa: btw this pattern is easy than your thinking.
00:00 Kawawa: so I might It's okay.
00:01 Kawawa:  http://puu.sh/sPhMZ/7d63feda22.jpg
00:01 ExPew: actually they're same stair
00:01 ExPew: 01:26:763 (86763|4,86851|1,86939|5,86939|2,86939|6,87027|3,87027|4,87116|1,87116|2,87204|5,87204|6,87292|3,87292|4,87380|1,87380|2) -
00:01 ExPew: looks easy but confusing
00:01 ExPew: agreed and changed
00:02 Kawawa: yeah, but I could pass them
00:02 Kawawa: easily.
00:02 Kawawa: It feeling just stair patterns
00:03 Kawawa: like http://puu.sh/sPhS6/50a5005a2e.jpg
00:04 ExPew: ^it's actual pattern
00:04 ExPew: the LN kill your sightreading
00:04 ExPew: my*
00:05 Kawawa: I don't have good LN reading skill.
00:05 Kawawa: but I can proof that is smooth pattern.
00:06 Kawawa: and I'm fine everything now.
00:06 ExPew: alright
00:06 ExPew: reupdate

OK!

Frim4503

2,067 posts

Joined July 2013

Frim4503 2016-12-14T16:08:04+00:00

pretty good for old chart

congrats
this map will be selected for ranking chart next month

toby1018

23 posts

Joined January 2016

toby1018 2016-12-14T20:12:58+00:00

this is why no one takes mania seriously

Arzenvald

4,063 posts

Joined July 2013

Arzenvald 2016-12-15T03:11:41+00:00

how to nerf Infection : play Insane

SpectorDG

1,167 posts

Joined June 2014

SpectorDG 2016-12-15T03:47:36+00:00

Nice qualify

congratz ~

stupud man

156 posts

Joined November 2012

stupud man 2016-12-15T04:45:04+00:00

ExPew wrote:
if people were that serious about the disqus comments, i bet most of the mappers already felt demotivated or maybe quit right away. like how does disqus became a base of your arguments if the comments are mostly meme stuff? imo they should have posted their thoughts in the thread itself to make it more constructive and relevant.

Yeah that's the issue, a lot of people are actually serious in disqus comments (in this map's case anyways), they just dont ever post in the threads because they don't bother to check them. I've noticed that the people that support this mapset are usually the people that are also other mappers/BNs/QATs(to an extent) that browse these threads daily. On the other hand, people who don't support it are usually just people who play the game and don't really go much further than that. Disqus is a convenient way to get small thoughts across, whether or not it's made into a meme.

comments like these are for the most part not memes
and i've talked to the person who posted this and they definitely dislike this mapset

Like I said earlier the problem is that I'm usually the only person to post in these threads since this is the only way to actually have your thoughts put into effect.

ExPew wrote:
longjacking was there for a reason, i'm not going to repeat what i have explained in my reply towards your mod.

I mean both of our points could argue against each other without ever changing so I respect that decision. Seeing as how nobody else is going to speak up I'm just going to step back from arguing.

ExPew wrote:
then why did you mentioned about comfortability at the first place even in your mod? as i said it was intended for a challenge, this has nothing to do with comfort. as a modder, it is worth to mention that you SHOULD know the common sense to avoid overriding the mapper's creativity.

Because comfortability is important in keeping people wanting to play your chart, especially if the chart is essentially going to be required to be played. If the entire chart is what needs to be fixed, how do you go about not "overriding" the mapper's "creativity"?

ExPew wrote:
by your logic, two mapsets of the same song created by different mapper should be synchronized as long as there are elements that people feel comfortable when playing, and it must not based on the mapper's choice to decide the variety or the uniqueness of the mapset, right?

That's absolutely not true at all. What I'm saying is that every chart has a fine line between uncomfortable and challenging. Where that line is drawn is different between you and I. I think we can agree on that.

So if we're done here, I'll just echo what someone said in the Blastix Riotz thread:

Ikaros- wrote:
I do not really enjoy your map, and I do not like your mapping style overall,and I
feel like this should not be ranked, but

Congratulations !

Another Lie

Another Lie 2016-12-15T05:56:16+00:00

I hope this won't get dq-ed for a selfish reason.
People have their own creativity. So, congrats ExPew

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2016-12-15T10:33:55+00:00

Unlike someone too selfish and think for themself, boohoo
Call their allies to red votes the map, haha, what a funny game.

Wh1teh

237 posts

Joined May 2013

Wh1teh 2016-12-15T11:23:44+00:00

KK why do you keep passive aggressively attacking stupud man? He's posting criticism in order to improve the map and has given rational reasons to support his argument. People who don't like the chart will vote it down, that's how it works. Some people in this thread (not all) giving their praise to the set seem to not be even skilled enough to play the chart. While you have people like Gekido, stupud man and Jakads to name a few, voicing out their concern regarding the map. At this point it seems that it all depends on if the mapper actually wants to improve the chart and gain the approval of his fans AND the players, or will he be fine with his decision to surround himself with yesmen and filtering out the "haters" from his mind.

I'm not saying that the chart is bad or good, I don't play 7K and I don't care. I just hate to see this attitude that some people have, they think that some people are out there to get them. Players are your demographic, not your enemy. If they say that your chart isn't fun, you should know what to do.
Who will you listen to in this situation is up to you ExPew.

SpectorDG

1,167 posts

Joined June 2014

SpectorDG 2016-12-15T12:08:46+00:00

Patterns looks all are great. Why?

can't pass with FC ? then improve your play skill

MadBricktree

469 posts

Joined August 2014

MadBricktree 2016-12-15T12:08:57+00:00

Kuo Kyoka wrote:
Unlike someone too selfish and think for themself, boohoo
Call their allies to red votes the map, haha, what a funny game.

My red vote has nothing to do with stupud man.
In fact, I have never talked with him before.
But I agree with his points.
I genuinely think that this map needs improvement.

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2016-12-15T12:09:36+00:00

Wh1teh wrote:
KK why do you keep passive aggressively attacking stupud man? He's posting criticism in order to improve the map and has given rational reasons to support his argument. People who don't like the chart will vote it down, that's how it works. Some people in this thread (not all) giving their praise to the set seem to not be even skilled enough to play the chart. While you have people like Gekido, stupud man and Jakads to name a few, voicing out their concern regarding the map. At this point it seems that it all depends on if the mapper actually wants to improve the chart and gain the approval of his fans AND the players, or will he be fine with his decision to surround himself with yesmen and filtering out the "haters" from his mind.

I'm not saying that the chart is bad or good, I don't play 7K and I don't care. I just hate to see this attitude that some people have, they think that some people are out there to get them. Players are your demographic, not your enemy. If they say that your chart isn't fun, you should know what to do.
Who will you listen to in this situation is up to you ExPew.

I'm not saying I'm fully disargee with stupud man. But the main thing is he keep pointing what is right to him and other guys as you said above, but not noticing, not all people dislike it. Some likes it, some dislikes it, i have no offenses so you don't have to worry about that. And playing the map is the best way to judging the map, yes, but yet, not. You can judge the map as many ways as you like and there are no stricts about it. You can't say the guy can't pass it hate the map, or the guy passed it love the map, it their taste to judge what it should be look like and what is fun and boring, so does like stupud as an example, he may hate the map that could be explains by his point. After all, I'm not like (love the map, it's good, good song, good map, ...) no, im just supporting this map and let it a chance to be ranked because it looks interesting to me and good variety of challenging and fun

"People who don't like the chart will vote it down, that's how it works"
Yes; but you forgot the main thing that why it only have 4 red and 20 green remain to 6 days in before but not now? With only one day? Nah, nobody cares about user rating, im just saying it's weird than it suppose to be.

People can mod the map in many ways, improve it as many ways you could to help the mapper, they usually would appreciate about this, but the mod is bad in their opinion and they want to keep it so it's meaningless to keep posting the same mod over and over again, right? They got the point, they have reason why and should keep it to their opinions, unless it's really a bad taste and they fully argees with it then they will fixs it, but no, this is not what about taking critisms, as the mapper had already explained why they still keeping it, they can keep it as long as it's the most suitable to them and not against RC rules, that's also what it should work in my opinion.
Look, you have your own opinions, stupud got his own opinions, other got their own opinions, so does us, If we disargeed to it, it's our will to keep as it's our map, we can choose to map with chordstream but that would be unchallenge and not fun anymore, we just map what the song gave us, it's fine to keep what it should be like, if make it too over comfortable, it would have no souls of a map and people would play it once and it will be forgotten, than try it many times and learn how to surpass it with time and fun, if the things are too easy, then there is nothing fun left to do again, things are to easy to do if you only did it with framework and that wouls be blame.

Might as well requote this because I love they points

Fresh Chicken wrote:
It wouldn't be trustworthy for a person like me to say these words, but in my personal opinion a map with this kind of pattern style getting ranked doesn't change the way osu!mania ranked beatmaps will be in the future. I do agree with the statement saying that this beatmap is generally a bit overmapped. But if you have enough skills to play a 6* 4K map, you'll know this map is well structured and very fun to play. As a player, a mapper that likes challenges, and a modder, I support this map. The meaning of this beatmap getting ranked is only the fact that osu!mania ranked mapset pattern representations will be more free and available, only that.

-Kamikaze- wrote:
While I don't necessairly like this map in particular, I do have to agree with FC here.

I do appreciate that you guys are trying to push this map to rank, because it's unique, the same goes for maps like influenza recently. It's something that is weird, controversial, sure, but also it's bringing more variety to the ranked maps which is very appreciated.
And yeah, if this gets through that doesn't mean that any map like that wil get through. There have been examples of that in the past.

Like AiAe didn't bring more quadstream charts ranked. Batting show didn't really bring many ultra SV charts ranked (which I really hoped it would) and so on.
So I wish to see this ranked just to have more variety in ranked section.

Good luck!

Recently, I post something to the map and stuffs to point about this Memoria p/5667530 but after tried and not gonna uses, I will leave it like the way it should be If they got good points to keep it and I have no offenses. That's the way of a discussion should be work imo than just self-defense your deal over and over again.

TL;DR: It's not about the critism, it's not about the comfortable, it's about the creativy of the mapper, If he/she argeed with your points, they would happily to fixs it, but If they doesn't, you can't just keep saying on one point, it's no use (unless it's an serious issues which against SR, abusing, etc.). than coming to finish it in an endless discussion, so no point to keep it. You have your own opinions and want to help him solve it out, that would be fully appreciated for what you did, thank you, but he/she also have his/her will to rejects it if it's bad in his/her taste pointing more was just useless. ExPew is really tired to explains everything again and again. He did his best to look at the mod and fix the common issues and it's already out of the light. We did understand your points, some are good to be honest, but the rest it's his decision to keep, we would appreciated if we could understand each other by now.
Best of luck!
Sorry bad english qwq

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2016-12-15T15:08:42+00:00

all right calm down everyone i don't want this thread to become worst

there is no need to provoke each other. i admit that i was quite shocked about the rating, but it doesn't matter to me. players can decide and rate whatever they want.

Wh1teh wrote:
KK why do you keep passive aggressively attacking stupud man? He's posting criticism in order to improve the map and has given rational reasons to support his argument. People who don't like the chart will vote it down, that's how it works. Some people in this thread (not all) giving their praise to the set seem to not be even skilled enough to play the chart. While you have people like Gekido, stupud man and Jakads to name a few, voicing out their concern regarding the map. At this point it seems that it all depends on if the mapper actually wants to improve the chart and gain the approval of his fans AND the players, or will he be fine with his decision to surround himself with yesmen and filtering out the "haters" from his mind.

I'm not saying that the chart is bad or good, I don't play 7K and I don't care. I just hate to see this attitude that some people have, they think that some people are out there to get them. Players are your demographic, not your enemy. If they say that your chart isn't fun, you should know what to do.
Who will you listen to in this situation is up to you ExPew.

yep, it's a common thing.
I had already prepared 'Insane' diff for those who are bad in jack/spam skills. like how Jinjin's map (eg The Limit Does Not Exist [Infinity] or MANIERA [Masterpiece] ) consisting of a 'major' chordstream. in case they cannot make a good result they try to play lower difficulty to improve their gameplay and get used to the pattern. so i decided to make 'Influenza' as the highest diff that are focusing on jack rhythm specifically. this should be fair enough in comparison between chordstream and jackhammer. im not going to mention about other terms as this will confuse the people here

i just want tell you guys to consider these things:
1) criticism =/= you are forced to follow/change as instructed.
2) if you feel uncomfortable, you have the freedom to create your own map without anyone hating about it. this is where the variation and diversity exist.
3) i have to repeat this again since you are clearly you missing the point. if they were that serious in disqus, they should have posted their thoughts in the thread itself to make it more constructive and relevant. contribute to the map if you need to justify your reason. make sure to understand the point at (1) above too.
4) those who said about not being skilled enough to play the chart, congratulations for showing your prejudice to the public.
5) to satisfy all players is not an easy task. keep in mind different people has different taste. you know how this works.

Maiz94

1,376 posts

Joined June 2010

Maiz94 2016-12-15T15:42:56+00:00

Make love (variety style mapping), not war (nonconstructive feedback and selfish mod to change just only you and your shitty elitist fan-club)

kthxbai

lemonguy

548 posts

Joined July 2014

lemonguy 2016-12-15T21:37:56+00:00

Maiz94 wrote:
Make love (variety style mapping), not war (nonconstructive feedback and selfish mod to change just only you and your shitty elitist fan-club)

kthxbai

Quit trying to stir up drama when people are posting legit mods and trying to improve the map. Or can you only listen to mods that you agree with? Yeah, the mapper doesn't have to change the patterns if he doesn't want to. But, the community is still free to post mods that they believe would make the map better. Everyone here needs to learn to take some ****ing criticism.

That being said, I still believe that a couple of parts can still be changed in the map, for playability.
02:19:175 - The transition from the jack into the burst is extremely rough, and I think that something like this would likely play somewhat better, while still keeping it similar to what you have https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6814168

02:32:939 - The main problem is that this jack goes on for so long, that unless you're attang or some other vibro god, you probably can't hope to ever FC this part. Most people aren't even physically capable of playing it, and it isn't really much of something that can be trained (you can train consistency but not really speed in wrist-jacking/vibroing). I think it would be best to at least alternate between columns, instead of condensing it all into two columns. Here's what I came up with, but as long as you at least somewhat alternate between columns for the jacks, it will play much better https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6814237

I'm fine with most of the rest of the map outside of these two spots.

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2016-12-16T03:19:03+00:00

Gekido- wrote:
That being said, I still believe that a couple of parts can still be changed in the map, for playability.
02:19:175 - The transition from the jack into the burst is extremely rough, and I think that something like this would likely play somewhat better, while still keeping it similar to what you have https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6814168

02:32:939 - The main problem is that this jack goes on for so long, that unless you're attang or some other vibro god, you probably can't hope to ever FC this part. Most people aren't even physically capable of playing it, and it isn't really much of something that can be trained (you can train consistency but not really speed in wrist-jacking/vibroing). I think it would be best to at least alternate between columns, instead of condensing it all into two columns. Here's what I came up with, but as long as you at least somewhat alternate between columns for the jacks, it will play much better https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6814237

I'm fine with most of the rest of the map outside of these two spots.

what makes you think that those jacks went overboard in your snapshot?

while people switching finger to do the jack on different column makes more reasonable to play (if everyone is fine with that), i'll take this as a consideration. seems like we can discuss about the jack pattern that needs the improvement. i will contact you in game when you are free.

EDIT: after discussed with Gekido- via irc, i decided to make some changes. this map will be disqualified again. sorry for the inconvenience.

Last edited by ExPew 2016-12-16T07:01:05+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Okoayu

Nomination Assessment Team

5,060 posts

Joined May 2012

Okoayu 2016-12-16T07:01:00+00:00

there ya go

lemonguy

548 posts

Joined July 2014

lemonguy 2016-12-16T07:33:22+00:00

IRC

23:07 ExPew: Hi. you're free around?
00:16 Gekido-: oh hi, just saw your message 
00:17 ExPew: have you read the thread i posted?
00:18 Gekido-: yeah I saw
00:23 ExPew: your idea quite interesting for me, but looks more harder with those minijack it turns
00:27 Gekido-: hmm in my opinion it isn't harder, it requires good finger independency, while the current pattern requires fast wrist jacking or vibro (which is something pretty rare that even top players cannot do well).  
00:30 ExPew: hmm, i was thinking to make 2 and 6 jack column
00:30 ExPew: guess it's easier to play by using 2 finger stream on 1 button
00:30 Gekido-: for the whole thing?  that would be harder than having it on 5 and 7 imo o.o
00:32 Gekido-: hmm 2 fingers on one button is doable, but most people wouldn't think of that 
00:32 ExPew: that's after i saw someone playing sewing machine long ago
00:34 Gekido-: I think the biggest problem with that would be transitioning into and out of it, because you would need to position your hands and fingers to trill on the same key, and then reposition it for the last 5 notes
00:37 ExPew: i remapped new stream with jack pattern
00:37 ExPew: i guess this would be accepable
00:38 Gekido-: can I see it
00:41 ExPew: i idea something like this http://puu.sh/sRdbO/1134f4f9f5.png
00:41 Gekido-: oh yeah that's a lot better
00:41 ExPew: pattern still mess yet i just draw a scale
00:41 Gekido-: something like that would be good imo
00:44 ExPew: the problem is i can't make it full ballance. there a few an error note
00:47 ExPew: ok now looks better
00:48 ExPew: http://puu.sh/sRdsT/4d064cb2e3.png
00:49 Gekido-: I think that looks good yeah
00:50 ExPew: applied now im sure im dead at this part lmao
00:51 Gekido-: ahaha rip
00:54 ExPew: alright that's only
00:54 Gekido-: 02:25:527 - I also think that this jack is really difficult, especially since you are transitioning out out of 13 and 75 trills, but honestly I'm not really sure what to do here, unless you wanted to do something similar to what you changed the ending to
00:55 ExPew: hmm
00:57 ExPew: really can't get here pattern if starting note at 2 and 6 col
01:00 Gekido-: yeah, maybe if you changed the trills to just 7575 for one and 1313 for the other, then you could start the jack on one hand (something like this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6816486)
01:01 ExPew: looks equal like 02:14:057 -
01:01 ExPew: got it
01:03 Gekido-: yeah that should be good then 
01:07 ExPew: changed 1/8 like your screenshot , still can able to spam for me :P
01:08 Gekido-: :P
01:08 ExPew: thank you for checking, please create new meme at the last part :P old one already expired
01:11 Gekido-: LOL alright xD

Thanks for accepting my mod, and good luck on requalification

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2016-12-16T07:50:17+00:00

"01:08 ExPew: thank you for checking, please create new meme at the last part

old one already expired"

I will miss the jack
Like Rose let Jack died
Like Apple.Inc banned jackhead

Jk. Call me back soon

_underjoy

704 posts

Joined January 2013

_underjoy 2016-12-16T10:44:33+00:00

This pattern is much worse now in my opinion, kills the layering you've been enforcing throughout the whole map.

LN on spacebar and [13][13][57][57][13][13][57][57] seems far more optimal and pleasurable to play through.
(i supported the old jack but I guess we can't have everything, option above plays well and doesn't create stupid minijack stairs).
optionally the minijack chains could be 4 or 8 note long. that's to your decision.
please consider

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2016-12-16T12:23:12+00:00

Okay, it's not going to end that well so revert the old pattern back would be the best solution, while the jackstream 77 55 33 11 with long notes in between would make it extremely hard and my thought that no one would ever surpass it than the old one, so, I give you 4 solutions
~~1. Change it back to 24 jacks~~
2. Split to 2 parts: each 12 jacks
3. Split to 4 patrs: each 6 jacks
4. Split to 6 parts: each 4 jacks
Which are more considering according to the pitch itself. Mini-jacks was fine, you can rearrange the pattern by your own ideas, and of course, which could be better than the current one.

lemonguy

548 posts

Joined July 2014

lemonguy 2016-12-16T19:16:37+00:00

I thought that the new ending pattern was fine, so I'm kinda surprised to see people disliking it. The majority of people seem to want it changed to splitting into 2/3/4 parts with 12/8/6 jacks like Underjoy and KK stated, so maybe that would be best.
Hopefully then everyone can finally come to an agreement on the ending lmao

Maiz94

1,376 posts

Joined June 2010

Maiz94 2016-12-16T19:20:31+00:00

Kuo Kyoka wrote:
while the jackstream 77 55 33 11 with long notes in between would make it extremely hard and my thought that no one would ever surpass it than the old one.
It's not extremely hard, it's combo-able but the PR or the relationship between the pattern and the song on the said part is not well suited and brings weird to combo.

I agree that 24 jacks is too overkill, (kek expew. hahaha) but I guess _underjoy solution is pretty enjoyable to combo and plus, it's fun and more challenging that way.

Non-worthy statements.

Last edited by Maiz94 2016-12-16T20:33:52+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Maiz94

1,376 posts

Joined June 2010

Maiz94 2016-12-16T20:32:36+00:00

Sorry for the bump. I took back my words about the jacks were being too overkill.

Expew and me have discussed about the jacks that these 24 jacks are combo-able and yes, it may not comfortable to give for casual players. BUT, the mapper tends to make it more challenging than Insane difficulty and this Infection difficulty is tend for advanced and inhuman skills of a player's target audience and doesn't tend to target audience for casual players.

If you are one from a casual player category, you can play other lower difficulties designed than Infection that the mapper has mapped with love for you to enjoy. You, as a casual player can also enjoy Infection difficulty BUT don't think and decide that this Infection difficulty lowers your play skill ability. Instead, take it as a challenge for you whether if you want it cleared as a target or just want to be combo-able all throughout the duration of the song.

If you didn't enjoy the Infection difficulty whether you take it as a challenge or just went for the play-for-fun thing with all those HT/NF mods kind of stuff, then you have played that 1 game far too long that you won't accept a single change on your desired pattern for you to play.

It is time for you and your fan-club to be open-minded with all other rhythm games and not just stick to only 1 game that your logical and rational thinking are close-minded because of it.

Expew called his mapping as a, map based on the song with rhythmic and various patterns.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a project with Kuo Kyoka to team-up with and plus, it is related to Expew actually and wanted to have a surprise for Expew.

riktoi

711 posts

Joined September 2014

riktoi 2016-12-16T23:33:49+00:00

01:57:844 - Considering the sound starts playing here the first roll should start here too. Also, since the first piano roll is faster than the others I'm pretty sure it should start with a 1/16 roll and then everything after that be 1/8. Making this comfortable might be hard but it's not exactly what you're going for with this chart anyway.

00:53:057 (53057|4,53057|0,53145|2,53145|6,53233|4,53233|0,53322|6,53322|2,53410|4,53410|0,53498|6,53498|2) - If we're talking pitch relevancy, aren't these technically incorrect? since you have 6 note jacks somewhere else in the chart I don't think they would hurt too badly here. I respect your structuring so you probably know better here.

01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|3,66204|2,66248|1,66292|6,66336|5,66380|4,66425|3) - This is probably also about comfort. As someone who doesn't really play 7k I can't really tell how hard something is (since I can't play it) but at least I can check pitch relevancy. So, at 01:06:292 - the sound "changes", so I feel the roll could go into the opposite direction as the roll before does.

01:10:704 - 01:11:410 - I feel like this section is a bit inconsistent with the jacks. 01:10:704 (70704|4,70704|0,70792|2) - this pattern and 01:10:880 (70880|0,70969|0) - do follow the same sound but they are charted differently. The pitch does change but there's no noticeable audio cue to justify this kind of change I suppose.

01:52:395 - If you wanted you could have a 1/8 snapped note here

I think the ending currently follows pitch very nicely and it also gives it a bit more difficulty apart from just being raw speed. Good luck!

Soul Evans

Elite Mapper

425 posts

Joined June 2014

Soul Evans 2016-12-17T00:06:22+00:00

Soul's random Modding
1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7

General

BPM: Okay
Offset: Okay
AiMod: Okay
Tags: Okay
BG: Okay
Kiai: Okay
Metadata: Okay
Folder’s problem: None
Hitsound: Okay
Timing: Okay
Other: Okay
[Infection]
00:18:469 (18469|0) - why does this note that's part of the chord interfering with the jacks? no need to add an extra jack note it doesn't follow rythm and makes the jack unbalanced, so i would move that
00:23:233 (23233|2,23233|6,23322|6,23322|2) - This doesn't play out smoothly in a way, not that jack by itself but how much it messes up so i might move those two in the middle, would turn out quite good i guess
00:30:469 - why don't you make this have two lns instead of one for the beat that's being louder than the earlier beat? i think it would play out nice to make the player feel the music more
00:25:527 (25527|2) - This might be better off on column 1, i mean, it feels unbalanced for me personally, and think it would be a better pattern intro for the LNs
00:30:469 - same here, like i said about it earlier
00:32:057 - I was thinking about maybe adding lns to this to fit the theme of map more and to represent the instrument beat i am hearing
00:36:292 - why does this pattern have to be the same as the one before it? when i was playing it i was expecting a jack so maybe move it to other cols would be better to make it have more variety to make it more fun!
00:38:057 (38057|2) - i kinda feel like this LN should extend to here 00:38:057 (38057|2) - it just feels awkward to me so i'm not sure.
00:39:469 - same here
00:57:910 (57910|2,57998|2) - maybe try avoiding this
01:00:822 - I think there should be a 3rd jack here, the sound supports it i think
01:06:998 - why not make these violin sounds LN? think it would be more consistent that way ~~add short lns i love them pls~~
01:09:645 - ^
01:16:880 (76880|4,76969|6,77057|3,77145|6) - If you could just, find a way these don't touch each other it would be extremely fun to play through this i trust you know how to change it sine you're expew after all! : )
01:27:645 - maybe you should add an ln for the scream (?) up until here 01:28:704 -
01:32:939 - i think you should add a note here, since it follows up the rest of the beats and it would be more consistent
01:40:351 - is there a way to switch the jacks? it's unbalancing so i think it could be better to swap cols around
02:01:527 (121527|5,121527|6,121616|6,121616|5,121704|5,121704|6,121792|6,121792|5,121880|5,121880|6,121969|6,121969|5,122057|5,122057|6,122145|6,122145|5) - Is there anyway this could be placed on the index+middle of either hands? atleast it would be better to hit than jacking with your weak finger
02:15:116 - there shouldn't be a jack here since it's not following the original jack beat, hence makes it not following anything so i suggest moving these two notes

enjoyed modding this, take care when this gets qualified again

Nanatsu

1,153 posts

Joined June 2013

Nanatsu 2016-12-19T13:22:56+00:00

Maiz94 wrote:
If you are one from a casual player category, you can play other lower difficulties designed than Infection that the mapper has mapped with love for you to enjoy. You, as a casual player can also enjoy Infection difficulty BUT don't think and decide that this Infection difficulty lowers your play skill ability. Instead, take it as a challenge for you whether if you want it cleared as a target or just want to be combo-able all throughout the duration of the song.

If you didn't enjoy the Infection difficulty whether you take it as a challenge or just went for the play-for-fun thing with all those HT/NF mods kind of stuff, then you have played that 1 game far too long that you won't accept a single change on your desired pattern for you to play.

I hope this logic works on Loved map category

paperlens

505 posts

Joined August 2014

paperlens 2016-12-25T12:38:51+00:00

WoW

Another Lie

Another Lie 2017-01-01T14:31:55+00:00

just a little suggestion from me (minor things or more like opinion maybe)

Insane

01:57:866 (117866|5,117910|4,117954|3,117998|2,118042|1,118307|5,118351|4,118395|3,118439|2,118483|1) - why not make it 1 step to the right? People at above normal rank (around #4000 - #2000) usually panicked when the pattern changed slightly.
02:19:175 (139175|4,139219|5,139263|1,139307|2,139351|4,139395|5,139439|1,139483|2,139527|4,139572|5,139616|1,139660|2,139704|4,139748|5,139792|1,139836|2,139880|4) - maybe you could make them like this? Why do i think that?
1. The balance of these note 02:19:880 (139880|4,139880|5) - if you're going to use current pattern. Those note in the right column are 3 notes. Meanwhile if you're using my opinion, it will be balanced because 02:19:792 (139792|1,139836|2,139880|4) - will be at left column
2. The playability of the burst. I think you are using that burst for the left handed players having advantage to play that. (It's not like i critism you. But all of your charts are well-balanced, but i think a bit of "advanced playability". I mean, players can feel comfortable & loved your chart because those are challenging & comfortable to play)

Maybe that's all i can suggest. Feel free to reject, also reply it. I will look forward for your reply

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2017-01-04T11:25:57+00:00

updated for revert back with 24jacks

will edit later this post after check all modders

EDIT 2 : this post may be late.

ArcherLove

1,434 posts

Joined March 2013

ArcherLove 2017-01-17T23:17:07+00:00

hi nanatsu long time no see pls make many sv taiko map
hi maiz94y (when will check my map? already like 1 yr lolol jk)
hi expew i did some suggestion on the hardest diff and the diff that's not too hard but hard diff, mind to look?

I will only focus in playability and visualization (and bit PR) so this is all me suggesting a very suggestive suggestion.
[insane]

I think this 00:03:822 (3822|3,3998|3) - better at 5 for visualization?
00:09:469 (9469|3,9645|2) - ctrl+j?
00:14:057 (14057|0,14057|2) - move to 3-5? (different pitch + not-so-bad playability)
00:19:704 (19704|6,19704|4) - to 5-3?
01:53:939 (113939|1) - move to 5?
01:54:998 (114998|2,115175|3,115351|2) - http://puu.sh/tpSXe/9b95cb6fad.jpg
01:55:880 (115880|2,116057|3) - ctrl+j ?
02:05:057 (125057|1,125233|0,125410|1) - swap collumn|?

[the diff that got so many dislike and controversion but i like it anyway but well it's hard BUT I STILL LIKE IT]

00:03:822 (3822|2,3998|2) - move to 4?
00:06:469 (6469|0) - move to 7 instead? because 00:06:469 (6469|3,6645|2,6822|1,6822|4,6998|3,7175|2,7175|5) -
00:37:351 (37351|5,37527|4,37704|3,37880|4,38057|3) - http://puu.sh/tpUbv/e8e50e074e.jpg ?
00:42:116 (42116|5,42116|2,42292|2,42292|5) - I think it's different sound how about move 00:42:292 (42292|5,42292|2) - 1 coll to the left? (yes, jack with 00:42:469 (42469|4) - not bad I think)
00:43:704 (43704|3,43792|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUfw/b7092eb974.jpg (better visualization + playability for mee but idk)

why 01:22:351 (82351|6,82351|0,83057|0,83057|6) - 2 note but 01:22:704 (82704|4) - only 1? the LN have all 1 LN, add at 1? not bad playability I think?
01:33:027 (93027|5,93027|1,93116|4,93116|2,93204|1,93204|5,93292|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUrY/24ba049996.jpg ? if not want jack the 7th note go to 1?
01:35:233 (95233|6,95233|2) - change to LN 1/2? (to the white line, is this 1/2 LN? or 1/4? zzzz ajee said 1/2)

wow u open

02:32:939 (152939|6,152939|4,153027|6,153027|4,153116|6,153116|4,153204|6,153204|4,153292|6,153292|4,153380|6,153380|4,153469|4,153469|6,153557|4,153557|6,153645|6,153645|4,153733|6,153733|4,153822|6,153822|4,153910|4,153910|6,153998|4,153998|6,154086|6,154086|4,154175|6,154175|4,154263|6,154263|4,154351|6,154351|4,154439|6,154439|4,154527|6,154527|4,154616|4,154616|6,154704|4,154704|6,154792|6,154792|4,154880|6,154880|4,154969|6,154969|4) -

^^^ MACHINE GUN ^^^ *pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew*

have

SOME IJIMA YUN AND MY REACTION WHEN PLAY DIS MAP

good luck mantan tembakan pesawat pew

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2017-01-20T11:41:28+00:00

sorrry guys i reply sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo laaaaaaaaattttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

riktoi wrote:
01:57:844 - Considering the sound starts playing here the first roll should start here too. Also, since the first piano roll is faster than the others I'm pretty sure it should start with a 1/16 roll and then everything after that be 1/8. Making this comfortable might be hard but it's not exactly what you're going for with this chart anyway.

Fixed, need to confirm where the sound starts with the current update. I use stable 1/8 to play for 1 second piano roll.

00:53:057 (53057|4,53057|0,53145|2,53145|6,53233|4,53233|0,53322|6,53322|2,53410|4,53410|0,53498|6,53498|2) - If we're talking pitch relevancy, aren't these technically incorrect? since you have 6 note jacks somewhere else in the chart I don't think they would hurt too badly here. I respect your structuring so you probably know better here.

yeah, you're right. however it's quite overdone when the music going from the beginning to the middle chorus and make slight gap difficult jump here.

01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|3,66204|2,66248|1,66292|6,66336|5,66380|4,66425|3) - This is probably also about comfort. As someone who doesn't really play 7k I can't really tell how hard something is (since I can't play it) but at least I can check pitch relevancy. So, at 01:06:292 - the sound "changes", so I feel the roll could go into the opposite direction as the roll before does.

your point about 'sound changes' based on pitch, so i re-arranged to 'quick S' stair pattern. hopefully this problem is solved for you and others

01:10:704 - 01:11:410 - I feel like this section is a bit inconsistent with the jacks. 01:10:704 (70704|4,70704|0,70792|2) - this pattern and 01:10:880 (70880|0,70969|0) - do follow the same sound but they are charted differently. The pitch does change but there's no noticeable audio cue to justify this kind of change I suppose.

i think i already make minijack '2 by 2' on the violin sounds last time, well i got lots of feedback from here that it needs some slight nerf. i decided to make 12 11 12 11 lowest as slight stair and jack.

01:52:395 - If you wanted you could have a 1/8 snapped note here

Kuo confirm it for me on this snap

I think the ending currently follows pitch very nicely and it also gives it a bit more difficulty apart from just being raw speed. Good luck!

Soul Evans wrote:
Soul's random Modding
1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7
General

BPM: Okay
Offset: Okay
AiMod: Okay
Tags: Okay
BG: Okay
Kiai: Okay
Metadata: Okay
Folder’s problem: None
Hitsound: Okay
Timing: Okay
Other: Okay
[Infection]
00:18:469 (18469|0) - why does this note that's part of the chord interfering with the jacks? no need to add an extra jack note it doesn't follow rythm and makes the jack unbalanced, so i would move that

oops, i went overboard. fixed.
00:23:233 (23233|2,23233|6,23322|6,23322|2) - This doesn't play out smoothly in a way, not that jack by itself but how much it messes up so i might move those two in the middle, would turn out quite good i guess

fixed, makes more balance pattern.
00:30:469 - why don't you make this have two lns instead of one for the beat that's being louder than the earlier beat? i think it would play out nice to make the player feel the music more

i don't think of making 2 lns here, they have their own specific melody itself
00:25:527 (25527|2) - This might be better off on column 1, i mean, it feels unbalanced for me personally, and think it would be a better pattern intro for the LNs

someone already pointed that this part is quite a mess. i think, i need to rework on this measure line ( im not sure for some improvement or remain as usual )
00:30:469 - same here, like i said about it earlier

??? ???
00:32:057 - I was thinking about maybe adding lns to this to fit the theme of map more and to represent the instrument beat i am hearing

looks good and more fit on the rest of 1/4 LNs (ill fix the 1/2LN later on this chorus)
00:36:292 - why does this pattern have to be the same as the one before it? when i was playing it i was expecting a jack so maybe move it to other cols would be better to make it have more variety to make it more fun!

slight changes following the rhythm changes at 00:36:292 -
00:38:057 (38057|2) - i kinda feel like this LN should extend to here 00:38:057 (38057|2) - it just feels awkward to me so i'm not sure.

actually, i don't want to. it feels a little weird
00:39:469 - same here ^
00:57:910 (57910|2,57998|2) - maybe try avoiding this

moved the LN to 1st column, kinda feels little weird.
01:00:822 - I think there should be a 3rd jack here, the sound supports it i think

nope, i'll just switch the LNs on other column
01:06:998 - why not make these violin sounds LN? think it would be more consistent that way ~~add short lns i love them pls~~
01:09:645 - ^

i can't make a suitable 1/4 LN here for this part sounds. so i decided to switch to normal note here. and other next part. i'll changed to LNs ( kinda tricky lol )
01:16:880 (76880|4,76969|6,77057|3,77145|6) - If you could just, find a way these don't touch each other it would be extremely fun to play through this i trust you know how to change it sine you're expew after all! : )

im planning to make it like this, however that note that was highlighted makes some major error http://puu.sh/tsFQN/92024d0ac1.jpg .
im going to remap this part ( if you disagree with new changes, i'd like to see your suggestion)
01:27:645 - maybe you should add an ln for the scream (?) up until here 01:28:704 -

i don't need a scream sound here. it's fine
01:32:939 - i think you should add a note here, since it follows up the rest of the beats and it would be more consistent

there a melody sound i followed, and no kick sound here.
01:40:351 - is there a way to switch the jacks? it's unbalancing so i think it could be better to swap cols around

changed to more easier gameplay
02:01:527 (121527|5,121527|6,121616|6,121616|5,121704|5,121704|6,121792|6,121792|5,121880|5,121880|6,121969|6,121969|5,122057|5,122057|6,122145|6,122145|5) - Is there anyway this could be placed on the index+middle of either hands? atleast it would be better to hit than jacking with your weak finger

there's no option to change, sorry
02:15:116 - there shouldn't be a jack here since it's not following the original jack beat, hence makes it not following anything so i suggest moving these two notes

removed last jack note

enjoyed modding this, take care when this gets qualified again

Another Lie wrote:
just a little suggestion from me (minor things or more like opinion maybe)

[Insane]

01:57:866 (117866|5,117910|4,117954|3,117998|2,118042|1,118307|5,118351|4,118395|3,118439|2,118483|1) - why not make it 1 step to the right? People at above normal rank (around #4000 - #2000) usually panicked when the pattern changed slightly.

alright.

02:19:175 (139175|4,139219|5,139263|1,139307|2,139351|4,139395|5,139439|1,139483|2,139527|4,139572|5,139616|1,139660|2,139704|4,139748|5,139792|1,139836|2,139880|4) - maybe you could make them like this? Why do i think that?

maybe im late to check?? http://puu.sh/tsI3c/0492c8010a.jpg

The balance of these note 02:19:880 (139880|4,139880|5) - if you're going to use current pattern. Those note in the right column are

i prefer to remain the current column, but hey i feel like this LN end is not the same as the other diffs. i'll fix this
i cant understand your point number 2 and 3 cuz i need your past screenshot. feel free to send it again

Maybe that's all i can suggest. Feel free to reject, also reply it. I will look forward for your reply - thanks

ArcherLove wrote:
hi nanatsu long time no see pls make many sv taiko map
hi maiz94y (when will check my map? already like 1 yr lolol jk)
hi expew i did some suggestion on the hardest diff and the diff that's not too hard but hard diff, mind to look?

I will only focus in playability and visualization (and bit PR) so this is all me suggesting a very suggestive suggestion.
[insane]

00:03:822 (3822|3,3998|3) - better at 5 for visualization?

the pitch looks good current one
00:09:469 (9469|3,9645|2) - ctrl+j?

looks good.
00:14:057 (14057|0,14057|2) - move to 3-5? (different pitch + not-so-bad playability)
00:19:704 (19704|6,19704|4) - to 5-3?
01:53:939 (113939|1) - move to 5?
01:54:998 (114998|2,115175|3,115351|2) - http://puu.sh/tpSXe/9b95cb6fad.jpg
01:55:880 (115880|2,116057|3) - ctrl+j ?

fixed all slight pattern weird
02:05:057 (125057|1,125233|0,125410|1) - swap collumn|?

doesn't need to swap, i rearrange here.

[the diff that got so many dislike and controversion but i like it anyway but well it's hard BUT I STILL LIKE IT]

00:03:822 (3822|2,3998|2) - move to 4?

nope better remain current one.

00:06:469 (6469|0) - move to 7 instead? because 00:06:469 (6469|3,6645|2,6822|1,6822|4,6998|3,7175|2,7175|5) -

I don't think so, if you combine with all. im sure it suitable.

00:37:351 (37351|5,37527|4,37704|3,37880|4,38057|3) - http://puu.sh/tpUbv/e8e50e074e.jpg ?

already change new pattern here. please check new update

00:42:116 (42116|5,42116|2,42292|2,42292|5) - I think it's different sound how about move 00:42:292 (42292|5,42292|2) - 1 coll to the left? (yes, jack with 00:42:469 (42469|4) - not bad I think)

make sense, move left col to make different sound.

00:43:704 (43704|3,43792|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUfw/b7092eb974.jpg (better visualization + playability for mee but idk)

i already change this part, please check new update

why 01:22:351 (82351|6,82351|0,83057|0,83057|6) - 2 note but 01:22:704 (82704|4) - only 1? the LN have all 1 LN, add at 1? not bad playability I think?

i nerfed this part , please update and recheck again.

01:33:027 (93027|5,93027|1,93116|4,93116|2,93204|1,93204|5,93292|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUrY/24ba049996.jpg ? if not want jack the 7th note go to 1?
01:35:233 (95233|6,95233|2) - change to LN 1/2? (to the white line, is this 1/2 LN? or 1/4? zzzz ajee said 1/2)

looks horrible hahaha

wow u open
02:32:939 (152939|6,152939|4,153027|6,153027|4,153116|6,153116|4,153204|6,153204|4,153292|6,153292|4,153380|6,153380|4,153469|4,153469|6,153557|4,153557|6,153645|6,153645|4,153733|6,153733|4,153822|6,153822|4,153910|4,153910|6,153998|4,153998|6,154086|6,154086|4,154175|6,154175|4,154263|6,154263|4,154351|6,154351|4,154439|6,154439|4,154527|6,154527|4,154616|4,154616|6,154704|4,154704|6,154792|6,154792|4,154880|6,154880|4,154969|6,154969|4) -

^^^ MACHINE GUN ^^^ *pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew*

have
SOME IJIMA YUN AND MY REACTION WHEN PLAY DIS MAP

good luck mantan tembakan pesawat pew

major nerfed Infection diff on LongNotes. feels free to check it again.

thanks everyone to random mod from my map

Another Lie

Another Lie 2017-01-21T02:55:47+00:00

Ok nice, ExPew already update it \^.^/
time to training again

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2017-01-25T15:20:26+00:00

quick mod before set off everything again

[Easy]
00:17:057 - this note also have cymbal, you might want to add a note here
00:25:527 (25527|0,26233|4) - instrument on here is kind of different with the rest of banjo sounds, I mean with 1/4, personal I think long notes fits it well
00:28:351 (28351|6,29057|2) - same goes
00:29:763 (29763|4,29763|6) - no cymbal here, I think you mean two notes with banjo and string sounds?
01:32:939 (92939|0) - what about move it to 3rd? It sounds different with the rest on 1st, not a kick sound too
01:34:704 (94704|3) - I think better to remove this, the string sound stands with long note right there sound better
01:50:057 - start on here, personal: http://puu.sh/tzzOo/c5816eb353.png, due to this: http://puu.sh/tzzPl/8bdb5c041a.png stand for the pitch sound, http://puu.sh/tzzQO/b4a720cb52.png stand for main instrument, sound better than it to me
01:51:645 (111645|3) - can be end on 01:53:057 -
01:52:351 (112351|6) - move to 01:52:527 - for main instrument, sound better than follow kick sound then instrument to me

[Normal]
00:09:998 (9998|1,10351|6,10351|4,10880|1,11057|4,11057|6,11410|0,11410|3) - you can ctrl h here for instrument split
00:14:057 (14057|1) - move to 5th for pitch
00:19:704 (19704|5) - same goes here but on 3rd
00:51:998 (51998|2,51998|0) - opinional: I think it's better to keep one note on here for like on 00:49:175 (49175|0,50586|6) -
01:35:939 - what about this refection: http://puu.sh/tzAo8/19daac0bf1.png
01:47:233 (107233|4,107322|5,108469|2,108645|2,108733|1) - same with before if you argeed
02:32:410 (152410|0,152586|0) - move to 2nd for balance

[Hard]
01:33:822 (93822|0,93822|4) - I dont get why it have to be 2 notes here, if it was for kick, then on here should be same 01:34:175 -
01:57:116 - add a note for main melody on 7th for like 01:56:410 (116410|3,116410|0) -
02:12:645 (132645|1) - I think it's better to move it to 4th for pitch
02:32:939 - personally I think it's better to make some mini jacks here, gap on this part to insane is a little large

[Insane]
01:19:175 (79175|0) - remove hitsound for the rest of instrument (i mean to make it the same, like on hard diff)
01:28:351 (88351|3,88351|5,88351|1) - these notes got a different sounds than other 3 I guess
01:56:057 (116057|2) - hitsound on here should be on 01:55:880 (115880|3) -
01:58:704 (118704|5,118704|6,119057|5,119057|1,119057|6) - its kind of weird to have this, where this one have 2 notes but the rest are 3
here is solution: actually i dont have any ideas here, but maybe may the next pattern go this way sound better http://puu.sh/tzBHK/0db492e5f5.png
02:15:116 (135116|0,135116|2) - move to the right 1 column? it's not snare sound on here agian

[Infection]
00:38:939 - If the normal kick sound is 2 notes, on here should be 3 with melody on here
00:40:351 - same
00:40:704 - 4 notes compared with 00:39:292 -
01:58:704 - same goes with insane on this part, I think it's better to find a solution here

That's all!

Anyway, here is the better BG resolution: http://puu.sh/tzCjy/bfade152f1.png

Call me back soon, gl

Ayachi-

2,261 posts

Joined November 2013

Ayachi- 2017-01-25T19:29:26+00:00

Raymond wrote:
quick mod

ArcherLove

1,434 posts

Joined March 2013

ArcherLove 2017-01-29T16:59:30+00:00

Raymond wrote:
quick

Arzenvald

4,063 posts

Joined July 2013

Arzenvald 2017-02-04T17:11:30+00:00

1&3 jack = mashallah

richardfeder

1,062 posts

Joined March 2013

richardfeder 2017-02-12T15:42:33+00:00

!!!

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2017-03-13T11:47:39+00:00

when i said quick mod, doesn't mean you can abandons the map
quick mod = quick fix

rank the map again la

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2017-03-13T11:50:17+00:00

lazy af

SPOILER

Kuo Kyoka wrote:
quick mod before set off everything again

[Easy]
00:17:057 - this note also have cymbal, you might want to add a note here ok
00:25:527 (25527|0,26233|4) - instrument on here is kind of different with the rest of banjo sounds, I mean with 1/4, personal I think long notes fits it well pm
00:28:351 (28351|6,29057|2) - same goes^
00:29:763 (29763|4,29763|6) - no cymbal here, I think you mean two notes with banjo and string sounds? something different sound without adding hitsounds
01:32:939 (92939|0) - what about move it to 3rd? It sounds different with the rest on 1st, not a kick sound too ok
01:34:704 (94704|3) - I think better to remove this, the string sound stands with long note right there sound better ^
01:50:057 - start on here, personal: http://puu.sh/tzzOo/c5816eb353.png, due to this: http://puu.sh/tzzPl/8bdb5c041a.png stand for the pitch sound, http://puu.sh/tzzQO/b4a720cb52.png stand for main instrument, sound better than it to me last one looks better
01:51:645 (111645|3) - can be end on 01:53:057 - no good
01:52:351 (112351|6) - move to 01:52:527 - for main instrument, sound better than follow kick sound then instrument to me ^

[Normal]
00:09:998 (9998|1,10351|6,10351|4,10880|1,11057|4,11057|6,11410|0,11410|3) - you can ctrl h here for instrument split it's too short to split them
00:14:057 (14057|1) - move to 5th for pitch ok
00:19:704 (19704|5) - same goes here but on 3rd ^
00:51:998 (51998|2,51998|0) - opinional: I think it's better to keep one note on here for like on 00:49:175 (49175|0,50586|6) - ^
01:35:939 - what about this refection: http://puu.sh/tzAo8/19daac0bf1.png also good too, and i need to fix up other part
01:47:233 (107233|4,107322|5,108469|2,108645|2,108733|1) - same with before if you argeed ^
02:32:410 (152410|0,152586|0) - move to 2nd for balance

[Hard]
01:33:822 (93822|0,93822|4) - I dont get why it have to be 2 notes here, if it was for kick, then on here should be same 01:34:175 - yeah , you're right. there a kick sound i missed to put here
01:57:116 - add a note for main melody on 7th for like 01:56:410 (116410|3,116410|0) - the 4th col note it's already in melody note
02:12:645 (132645|1) - I think it's better to move it to 4th for pitch moved
02:32:939 - personally I think it's better to make some mini jacks here, gap on this part to insane is a little large potential hard is for stream note. if i need to make slight jack or mini jack, i have to give some gap with no note before jack coming to reduce fingertap tension.

[Insane]
01:19:175 (79175|0) - remove hitsound for the rest of instrument (i mean to make it the same, like on hard diff) agree this
01:28:351 (88351|3,88351|5,88351|1) - these notes got a different sounds than other 3 I guess rearrange whole part this section
01:56:057 (116057|2) - hitsound on here should be on 01:55:880 (115880|3) - already??
01:58:704 (118704|5,118704|6,119057|5,119057|1,119057|6) - its kind of weird to have this, where this one have 2 notes but the rest are 3
here is solution: actually i dont have any ideas here, but maybe may the next pattern go this way sound better http://puu.sh/tzBHK/0db492e5f5.png there an error note on first column has conflicted with LN ends, managed to make it 567 123 567 123
02:15:116 (135116|0,135116|2) - move to the right 1 column? it's not snare sound on here agian not good enough

[Infection]
00:38:939 - If the normal kick sound is 2 notes, on here should be 3 with melody on here added for strings melody
00:40:351 - same ^
00:40:704 - 4 notes compared with 00:39:292 - added maintain as 4 notes
01:58:704 - same goes with insane on this part, I think it's better to find a solution here done

That's all!

Anyway, here is the better BG resolution: http://puu.sh/tzCjy/bfade152f1.png

Call me back soon, gl

Last edited by ExPew 2017-03-25T09:50:19+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Another Lie

Another Lie 2017-03-22T15:33:28+00:00

ExPew wrote:
i just want tell you guys to consider these things:
1) criticism =/= you are forced to follow/change as instructed.
2) if you feel uncomfortable, you have the freedom to create your own map without anyone hating about it. this is where the variation and diversity exist.
3) i have to repeat this again since you are clearly you missing the point. if they were that serious in disqus, they should have posted their thoughts in the thread itself to make it more constructive and relevant. contribute to the map if you need to justify your reason. make sure to understand the point at (1) above too.
4) those who said about not being skilled enough to play the chart, congratulations for showing your prejudice to the public.
5) to satisfy all players is not an easy task. keep in mind different people has different taste. you know how this works.

Totally agree with this

I don't have the past screenshot

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2017-03-25T10:04:57+00:00

updated.

the jack ending part was reverted like old qualified version.

Last edited by ExPew 2017-03-29T13:43:08+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2017-03-25T13:03:34+00:00

BanYa & Warak - Beethoven Influenza [OsuMania modding]

[Generals]
- BPM: Okay
- Offset: Okay
- AiMod: Okay
- Tags: Okay
- BG: Okay
- Kiai: Okay
- Metadata: Okay
- Folder’s problem: None
- Hitsound: Okay
- Timing: Okay
- Other: Okay

Bubbled
(Cancer)

Congratulations!

Got myself check the map again, it should be totally fine now, at least to me. Best of luck!

juankristal

osu! Alumni

1,408 posts

Joined August 2010

juankristal 2017-04-04T01:24:18+00:00

So, this is exactly what I am trying to avoid and I see this as even a little bit of a disrespect towards the whole community. Which is the main reason why I am doing this bubble pop.

And yes, you will have to convince me that the map deserves to be ranked for the map and not because it is mapped by yourself.

So, even if I try to not sound real rude this time, I cant really control myself that well anymore. I can understand if you are a person who wants to get content ranked, challenge the system, and believe that you are the best but sometimes you all guys are taking it way too far. This map was disqualified for a reason and that reason was the ending, which remained untouched and got rebubbled after some time.

So, before getting into the actual chart lets see what you said:

1) criticism =/= you are forced to follow/change as instructed.

Sure, you are sorta right. You are not doing it the right way tho. Criticism is used in a way to improve the mapset, to be more enjoyable and accepted and you are being way too arrogant to even listen. This is the mistake you are making, and I hope you can see it and change it in the future. If you cant take criticism then dont aim for ranked, its not the place for you (seriously, you can even use myself as an example, I dont rank maps and I am totally up for seeing super weird stuff and all that)

2) if you feel uncomfortable, you have the freedom to create your own map without anyone hating about it. This is where the variation and diversity exist.

You dont seem to understand the concept that people is telling you here. The map is meant to be unconfortable, I get that, and to be fair honest, I understand it and I think its a good thing to make challenging stuff as long as they make sense. This makes sense, sure, but there is also a limit and as it was suggested this should be nerfed. You are a strong image for the community, act as what you are and please guide people for the "right path" instead of using your popularity as a shield to do whatever you want abusing the system.
The problem isnt it being uncomfortable, its being super spiky (even tho the song should have a spike there, it shouldnt be that big of a jump, seriously, 25 note jack is no joke. Jesus, even 12 notes jacks are retarded)

I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked. This will just be another excuse for any other mapper to say "I rank everything I want mapped as I want because I can" and thats exactly the mentality we have to avoid.

So now, chart wise I guess I have to speak for myself a little bit. The diff feels way too soft on the intro (which makes sense right, the intro isnt as jack heavy music wise) but in general you have to make your diff more dense if you want to make it something that makes sense as a whole. A map should have difficulty spikes if the song is asking for them but it should not be a gap from an intro where you use really safe pattering into 25 notes ring finger jack. In general for the end to make sense the map has to be a lot more dense in the pre-ending and even with that it would probably not be enough. I think the jacks in general of the ending are -alright- but still quite edgy. I imagine the best way to make it work is trying to split the jack work/ avoid the LN to have more space to work on, and pmuch what has been adviced so far.

To begin with, I think this shouldnt be ranked at this state because of coherence between the map itself and because the pattern usage is way to extreme for the ranked section now.

And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.

So yeah, now you can come and bash me, call me biased, but I dont want this chart to hit ranked and even less at this state. Hope I wasnt as rude as I think it sounded.

god this song is so awful jesus

richardfeder

1,062 posts

Joined March 2013

richardfeder 2017-04-04T07:54:01+00:00

My dear Juan, did you pop this bubble on a bn's point of view with specific reasons regarding any technical issues presented in the mapset, or did you just pop it because you don't like Expew's attitude and the fact that he declined mods with legit justification? I do believe that, despite mapper's attitude is a huge factor in the ranking process, we do not veto a map just because its owner is an asshole(and Expew is not an asshole, nor is he trying to be arrogant and shit at people). Modders are here to express their opinions and offer helps to the map, but here to not change one's attitude.

And why is it necessary for him to convince you, but not anyone else, that this map deserves to be ranked?
BNs believe this map is ready and they upvote this map with their icons. Do they need your confirmation to put this mapset forward?
Expew clearly targets at a certain group of players who enjoy his interpretation of music and his style of mapping. Given the fact that how many people showed their supports by posting on the forum and added the map as their favs, it is super clear that this map deserves a spot in the ranked mappool. It seems that you are not in the targeted group and you don't like the music at all. But is that the reason for you to pop the bubble?

The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.

We are not at the stage where ranked mappool are filled with map spamming unreasonable jack patterns(btw jacks patterns used in this map are super legit in my opinion). We are not at the stage where we have too many shitty 7k get ranked and we have to put a break on it. BNs and people who like this map approved it because we need and want to push certain styles that are not ordinary, and why not give it a try? Why not just take it as a "test the water" case and see what happen next? If really no one likes it at all, I believe both Expew and BNs will reevaluate the situation and adjust based on the feedback and comments, and stop ranking maps like this in the furture. What I see right now is that there are enough supports from both mappers/bns and players, but you still don't even want to give a try, and pop the bubble solely because you don't like the Expew's attitude, his refusal of changing his style, and probobally you don't like the music.

The gap is not a problem in my opinion. The song doesn't sound that hard at the intro and I don't think adding unnecessary notes or switching to a harder, unfit patterns just for consistency for the whole diff worth at all. A map definitely makes sense even though it has parts that are way easier than other parts (people even insert breaks in very high level diff).

I am sorry for being salty but I do want to question the decision you made several hours ago. I hope you can reconsider what you did and what it meant to the mapping community. I apologize if my words sound aggressive to you and anyone else. I just want to know why you refuse to move the situation forward. Your post will only push this mapset to the graveyard, since you even did not give a direction where this map should go.

Sandalphon

1,470 posts

Joined May 2013

Sandalphon 2017-04-04T10:06:58+00:00

juankristal wrote:
And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.

So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?

He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.

Kamikaze

2,898 posts

Joined November 2012

Kamikaze 2017-04-04T10:50:34+00:00

YaHao wrote:
So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?

He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.

hey so I'd like to point out that when that rule came into fruition the implication was that the nominator can play the map he's nominating or at least be at a level where he can almost play it, because you can't really properly judge hard af map with just theory, you gotta be able to FEEL how it plays unless the map does pretty standard things but faster

this is not common charting, this is controversial and every feedback given that does not contain words "yes this map is great" is taken as an attack not by one person but by a whole flock of people who hastily come back here to shove that opinion down the drain.

if you can't play this chart you don't understand how big of a strain 25 note long jack is compared to even 20 or 15, so that's already a good reason to pop imo

especially since the only BNs I think can play this properly are nivrad and evening (I can't, KK can't, you SY also can't, let's be real here)
yes of course, there is an argument about objective quality being just as or more important than playability, but not in cases so controversial as this one

if you're going to get your map into a ranked state, you're gonna have to go for compromises and not this:

ExPew wrote:
updated.

the jack ending part was reverted like old qualified version.

this is a dangerous precedent to set, "I can just ignore QAT's reasons and do whatever I want, that guy did it as well lol", that can honestly dig even deeper hole for mania ranking process that it's already in

just my 100 pesos

Sandalphon

1,470 posts

Joined May 2013

Sandalphon 2017-04-04T12:03:55+00:00

Be able to play surely will help you a lot on judging a map, but that's not everything. Of course, "just theory" is not gonna stand either.

Let's quit arguing whether a BN can or not judge this map, its pointless and i dont think this can do any help to the map itself, plus i can find many examples of BN icon a map which is beyond his playing skill. http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5771261

Less talking, some actual work (like a proper mod) to improve the map will be helpful, or even quote the QAT mod if not agree with pew's reply to them, cause i dont see any of you two did that.

Edit: FYI, I full combo the last 24 jacks https://youtu.be/5zocQgqsweQ?t=2m40s (change the HP to 8 last time i play and forget to change back, lazy to record again so)

Last edited by Sandalphon 2017-04-04T12:34:29+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

juankristal

osu! Alumni

1,408 posts

Joined August 2010

juankristal 2017-04-04T12:15:54+00:00

YaHao wrote:
Be able to play surely will help you a lot on judging a map, but that's not everything. Of course, "just theory" is not gonna stand either.

Let's quit arguing whether a BN can or not judge this map, its pointless and i dont think this can do any help to the map itself, plus i can find many examples of BN icon a map which is beyond his playing skill. http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5771261

Less talking, some actual work (like a proper mod) to improve the map will be helpful, or even quote the QAT mod if not agree with pew's reply to them, cause i dont see any of you two did that.

Hey that is the next map I was planning to pop. Don't spoil my stuff

Anyways, right now I am in a train so I can't really answer properly but I will once I get back to home.

And besides it helping the map or not it is a rule, if you don't follow the rules you can get kicked. I got striked once for not and I hope the rules applies for everyone.

There is a balance, mappers and players perspective and this map only satisfies one (and yet in a questionable way I think it can still be more Jacky if you want to) and it has to satisfy both. Richard calls the map has many favourites and support... From who? Players who actually can play the difficulty? Players who want to take the challenge? I mean if this exploded it means something and it's that's being taken too far.

Halogen-

Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015

576 posts

Joined September 2009

Halogen- 2017-04-04T12:16:01+00:00

YaHao wrote:
juankristal wrote:
And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.
So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?

He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.

Let's do everyone a favor and drop the condescending tone here. You're targeting juankristal for his point and acting as if he's the only one that has expressed any sort of concern about this map being ranked. I'm gonna cut straight to the point here and not beat around the bush: you're trying to abuse intersubjectivity to get something absolutely ridiculous ranked, because "it follows ranking requirements" and therefore, should be allowed. The fact of the matter is that there's been a clear disrespect by ExPew because a section that was previously reverted as suggested by others has been added back into the map. That's not alright under any circumstance — that screams "well, others have vetted this, that means it is ok."

This is precisely why the BN playability rule exists. I'd agree that beatmap nominators should also have the ability to "consult" other individuals for the purpose of playtesting if they're trying to make something experimental/exceptionally difficult, but you wouldn't even be able to do that in this case, as I'm pretty certain most players that you are targeting with your difficulty would not like to play it. This map has had minimum exposure, and has already produced a negative ratio of ratings: in fact, your scores are so polarized within those ratings that I'm willing to bet the people who rated you high are the ones that supported the map (and not necessarily the ones who have to play it).

As Kamikaze said: you cannot judge a map purely on theoretical ability. There are playability standards that should be adhered to, and the highest difficulty on this map is far from it. When you're going out of your way to get a bubble on this map, you are acknowledging that you have intent to expose this file to players, and you can't just insert something that you want because it "feels right." A 25-note 1/4 chord jack at 170 BPM is simply not acceptable under any constraint: I don't care in this particular case that it is an atonal repetition, and I wouldn't care if it was a repeated piano chord or something that would "theoretically merit" that kind of patterning: you wouldn't do it in any case because it's largely unplayable and is a huge difficulty spike with comparison to the rest of the map.

richardfeder wrote:
...did you pop this bubble on a bn's point of view with specific reasons regarding any technical issues presented in the mapset, or did you just pop it because you don't like Expew's attitude and the fact that he declined mods with legit justification? I do believe that, despite mapper's attitude is a huge factor in the ranking process, we do not veto a map just because its owner is an asshole(and Expew is not an asshole, nor is he trying to be arrogant and shit at people). Modders are here to express their opinions and offer helps to the map, but here to not change one's attitude.

The purpose of beatmap modding is to get the map to the highest quality out of the beatmap. Those who are modding don't have to change one's attitude in most cases — however, when you have players who absolutely dislike the map, and various impartial people saying that the structure is basically unplayable/unenjoyable, that should be an immediate red flag that something like this is an issue. While juankristal might not have been the best at making his point by adding a bit of a tactless statement about the song/map, the point is that this map presents a serious issue for another reason as well:

juankristal wrote:
I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked.

The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.

richardfeder wrote:
The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.

I think you're disregarding the fact that, if I'm interpreting the context correctly within the course of the thread and the post that ExPew made: he nerfed the ending with respect to criticisms provided, only to decide to put it back right at the end of the map's modding cycle (basically post Kuo's bubble). And the whole concept of this map not violating any written rules of the RC is a stupid excuse, let's drop that right at the door — it's a pathetic excuse of a shield for the purpose of trying to let something that has been established as subjectively incorrect and poorly done by both mappers and players (polarization in rankings). I've yet to see anyone that the difficulty aims to target, who is impartial to the situation, react positively about the structure of this map. In fact, I personally was tipped off about this map's infamy for the same reason that this map was disqualified, and alone speaks volumes. This is not something that should pass.

A good mapper knows how to express the music properly, while still making it approachable for the players who want to play it. This is not approachable under any circumstance. If my memory serves me correctly, even jakads, who is #1 in the game statistically at the moment, a player that has spent time crushing all varieties of maps in the game, was not able to properly play the ending of your not even 6* map.

Drop your pride at the door and make the necessary changes to make this more playable. You've actually got a song with incredible potential to make something really technical, but you need to do it the right way.

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2017-04-04T13:24:31+00:00

as your wish, i nerf at ending part like you said it's "retarded"
but i rework the rating HP/OD to getting more "strict"

more reply comes later, i'm tired now.

17VA

1,007 posts

Joined September 2012

17VA 2017-04-05T05:01:29+00:00

BN who isn't 7K player must not judge 7k maps. It is reasonable pattern and very common on bms charts.
Those jacks are not so great for LR2 ★ users and lv60+ o2 users and enjoyable enough.

Sandalphon

1,470 posts

Joined May 2013

Sandalphon 2017-04-05T09:54:51+00:00

Please read the previous posts/discussion before you post something like this in thread

Kawawa

Kawawa 2017-04-05T12:51:36+00:00

Let me say one thing because guys focusing on the jack strain.
first of all I think It's not impossible.

Players also already playing similar tempo with this(recently DT patch)
If I compared with something.
https://puu.sh/va1ae/5e05342095.jpg
LEFT :: C18H27NO3(extend) 4K DT burst one(310 BPM)
RIGHT :: Beethoven will be calculated as 340 BPM(because It used only one hand)

maybe it can be ridiculous that I brought 4K and DT.
nevertheless It shows the player can play. how much player can passed it?

It must be reasonable? If It mapped as 4K, I might It would be 12/34 for your reasonable.
you know why It is keeping this chart for what. yes It's already reasonable(like Lachryma https://puu.sh/va4zX/4c8b44ddc2.jpg)
It is how mapper expressed the music. If It must be your taste, always will be map like that.
Neither is right, I agree that patterns are uncomfortable, but sometimes you have to throw away the stereotypes.
This is the reason why I still supporting those chart. and I am the one who can judge this map except evening. why not? lmao
Anyway It's up to expew.

Halogen-

Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015

576 posts

Joined September 2009

Halogen- 2017-04-05T16:19:21+00:00

you're making comparisons with things that people have to utilize mods to attain - saying that "(x) can be done on DT" doesn't make it right because players are making the choice to do that; C18 gets that high through modifications and players are doing that by choice - so yes, it's a ridiculous point because you're trying to separate the difference of player who are opting to play (C18) on extremes and players that will be -forced- to play (Beethoven) these extremes

the extremes in C18 are stupid, like many other maps on DT; they are by no means representations of proper ways to map things and people who try to rank things like that will very likely be shot down in the same way

lachryma's ending trill is not even close to relevant to this issue because arguing physical capabilities (C18/Beethoven) against coordination capabilities - scoreboards very clearly indicate that players are capable of doing this and maps similar to this (see: kamui)

irrelevant points to shield something like this do nothing but cause more issues.

EDIT: mfw juan posts nearly the exact same thing only 5 seconds apart lol

Last edited by Halogen- 2017-04-05T16:21:58+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

juankristal

osu! Alumni

1,408 posts

Joined August 2010

juankristal 2017-04-05T16:19:26+00:00

Uhh, did someone said it is impossiblle?

I mean yeah, sure, I cant think of an example from the top of my head of people doing a lot of stuff that is way harder than this, and again, that is not the point.

Kawawa, do you realize how silly and nonsensical your comparison is? You are comparing two charts that have similar issues, spiky at one specific point (and not only that, you are also comparing one of the most dirty pp mappings ever created for a map that is 4K when we are having a 7K beatmap here).

You are comparing a pattern that requires holding with one hand, jacking with another with a pattern that you just have to jumptrill at a "slower" speed and you are also comparing two "different gamemodes". Its like saying hey, since mania can do, lets say 250 bpm one hand trills, lets just map a deathstream map for STD since yeah, mania 4k people can do it so why not STD?

And not only that, you are comparing a map with DT with a nomod map. A map that is only played with DT because of the pp it awards being completely out of place. Why dont you try to get a split jumptrilll 4K at that speed ranked and see how many people can hold that as easy as they hold with C18, you are comparing an apple with a beef, this is all different kind of stuff.

And again, how many times I have to repeat myself, the problem relays on extreme patterns yes, but it also relays on the chart being extremely spiky to a point that shouldnt. ExPew already changed the ending to something I find a lot more reasonable so if he is up to continue with that I am fine with it.

Halogen-

Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015

576 posts

Joined September 2009

Halogen- 2017-04-05T16:23:42+00:00

Kawawa wrote:
Players also already playing similar tempo with this(recently DT patch)
If I compared with something.
https://puu.sh/va1ae/5e05342095.jpg
LEFT :: C18H27NO3(extend) 4K DT burst one(310 BPM)
RIGHT :: Beethoven will be calculated as 340 BPM(because It used only one hand)

maybe it can be ridiculous that I brought 4K and DT.
nevertheless It shows the player can play. how much player can passed it?

Halogen- wrote:
The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.

holy shit it's like i'm psychic

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2017-04-05T16:25:01+00:00

This will never had a stop.

richardfeder

1,062 posts

Joined March 2013

richardfeder 2017-04-05T16:25:48+00:00

Halogen- wrote:
As Kamikaze said: you cannot judge a map purely on theoretical ability. There are playability standards that should be adhered to, and the highest difficulty on this map is far from it. When you're going out of your way to get a bubble on this map, you are acknowledging that you have intent to expose this file to players, and you can't just insert something that you want because it "feels right." A 25-note 1/4 chord jack at 170 BPM is simply not acceptable under any constraint: I don't care in this particular case that it is an atonal repetition, and I wouldn't care if it was a repeated piano chord or something that would "theoretically merit" that kind of patterning: you wouldn't do it in any case because it's largely unplayable and is a huge difficulty spike with comparison to the rest of the map.

I think the jack pattern definitely does not go over the playability standards, if it actually exists. You said that the highest difficulty is far from it, and I do agree with you that indeed it is if one tries to fc it. The "playable" you stated above is clearly too much. It is absolutely doable, but hardto be executed perfectly. I am not going to pretend that many people can actually handle it, but I am pretty sure that at the same time, there are quite a few pro who believe they can do it and are willing to repeated challenge that pattern to proof their skills.

The purpose of beatmap modding is to get the map to the highest quality out of the beatmap. Those who are modding don't have to change one's attitude in most cases — however, when you have players who absolutely dislike the map, and various impartial people saying that the structure is basically unplayable/unenjoyable, that should be an immediate red flag that something like this is an issue. While juankristal might not have been the best at making his point by adding a bit of a tactless statement about the song/map, the point is that this map presents a serious issue for another reason as well:

I absolutely have no idea about the immediate red flag part. Why is it a "NO" just because, let's say 60% of the people(if you do go over the thread you will notice that 60% is way more than a conservative calculation) hate it? You should be aware of the fact that people out there are promoting this map with careful thoughts.

juankristal wrote:
I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked.
The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.

What are you afraid of? The danger of snowfall always exists, and it is not going to be an excuse for us to stop here and with our limited mapping styles stays unchanged for ages. Indeed jack pattern itself is not a new technique, but trying to use long jack pattern and corporate it with the rest of the map is definitely something we have not tried in the past. It opens up the discussion if patterns like this are actually usable in certain cases and I do not think it is wise to shut this down just because many people can't play this pattern at all.

We are not in the stage of snowfall. We have not even experienced a single snow due to the fact that how cautious we are. I 100% understand the fear you and Juan harbor, but I also have confidence that, even if Expew ranked his map and it failed the community miserably and someone tries the same thing later, instead of saying "well, Expew managed to get his shit ranked so I guess I should be able to do that too", our mappers, BNs and QATs will say "hey did you see those salty comments and replays on the scoreboard? Don't try that and we won't rank map like that anymore".

richardfeder wrote:
The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.
I think you're disregarding the fact that, if I'm interpreting the context correctly within the course of the thread and the post that ExPew made: he nerfed the ending with respect to criticisms provided, only to decide to put it back right at the end of the map's modding cycle (basically post Kuo's bubble). And the whole concept of this map not violating any written rules of the RC is a stupid excuse, let's drop that right at the door — it's a pathetic excuse of a shield for the purpose of trying to let something that has been established as subjectively incorrect and poorly done by both mappers and players (polarization in rankings). I've yet to see anyone that the difficulty aims to target, who is impartial to the situation, react positively about the structure of this map. In fact, I personally was tipped off about this map's infamy for the same reason that this map was disqualified, and alone speaks volumes. This is not something that should pass.

I am not trying to say that he does not violate any written laws so he is safe. Sorry for not saying my thoughts in a clean, understandable way.

Please allow me to rephrase what I tended to say in my previous post. We have so little rules which gives us the maximum potential to express our interpretation freely, and as long as it is justified reasonably, it should not be easily denied. Same, if you are going to say no, you have to voice your concern with details. A undefined idea "Unplayable"(where's the boundary? No no can fc = unplayable? 70% players can't catch 70% of the notes in the jack part = unplayable? Or no one can actually pass it is a true "unplayable"?) sounds so rude and arrogant compares to how much efforts modders, BNs who support this map with their reasons stated.

I was thinking about Juan saying Expew did not fix any "QAT's concern" when I typed my previous post. All I wanted to say before is that Expew did not violate and written rules and QAT did not disqualified the map, saying that "you must change this part" ect.. There's no such "QAT's concern". They DQ-ed for more discussions so that we all can sit down and talk about this before everything is settled too quickly.

A good mapper knows how to express the music properly, while still making it approachable for the players who want to play it. This is not approachable under any circumstance. If my memory serves me correctly, even jakads, who is #1 in the game statistically at the moment, a player that has spent time crushing all varieties of maps in the game, was not able to properly play the ending of your not even 6* map.

There's no guarantee that if you S-ranked all 5* maps then when you download the next 5* maps you are going to pass it. It is highly likely that you can handle it well, but sometimes not. As you know Tom's algorithm has been helping us a ton, but it is also true that the star rating system we have right now still cannot handle certain patterns for instances heavy LNs and jacks. You know that this is actually not 6* at all.

I am still note sure what do you mean by saying properly. I am not, and I guess no one, maybe including himself, is expecting jakads or someone else crushes that part easily. Are you expecting him to perform "properly"?

! no hate please!
Also someone fixes my grammar please..

Edit: Oh Juan addressed the spike. Should we move on and talk about that actually..

btw correct me if I am wrong. BNs can still bubble and pop this as long as they have not placed any icon here yet.

Last edited by richardfeder 2017-04-05T16:32:16+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

juankristal

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juankristal 2017-04-05T16:31:37+00:00

Kuo Kyoka wrote:
This will never had a stop.

That's not true. ExPew already made the change so the map *should* be ready to go. It's just that I feel I had to answer kawawa after saying something I found really irrelevant/false. In any case, you can move on.

Edit: Richard, I am looking forward to answer you as soon as I am done with lunch.

So I will try to go point by point:

The jack is meant to be hard, its hard to execute and I stated multiple times, I get it. There is supposed to be a gap on difficulty over there as the music has a shift but the thing is that if you want to make something challenging it should be challenging all the way or needs to have some sort of increase in difficulty level progresively in my head. If you can clear the map it doesnt mean you beat a challenge because you can execute it, moreso it is a matter of you surviving by smashing which is the case for many DT maps nowadays (I am a dirty pp farmer sometimes too, shame on me)

About the next point of the BNs being like that well, I am a BN being like that not letting this go further. I am just a particular case of your example. After stuff like C18, we had stuff like T&R for example and not even going to bother mentioning easier stuff like Dark Flight Dreamer and whatnot. It is a thing that happens, same thing that happened with the jumptrill into jack with 3 note chors all the time in 4k.

With the way the QAT works, the only time you are getting the QAT fixing anything you do is when you have wrong snaps or issues that goes further away of the map itself as a chart. Which sucks in my opinion but is the way it is. Thats why the BNs are the ones doing the "quality control" and for me this was not good enough to see the lights of ranked which is the reason I was popping the bubble.

Not even going to try to tallk about Star Rating either, we all know it sucks and its not accurate and that wasnt the point Halogen- was trying to make (I imagine) its more about the #1 player not being able to do consistently welll in a map that he should given the song and structure overall.

And last, any BN can pop any bubble at any time before something is qualified. The BN who got his bubble popped can icon the set again until both parts find an agreement. I am trying to go with some pattern derivations of what ExPew has right now to try and reflect how is it achieved right now in at least a better way (to not be 100% the guy who says, this is bad, fix k bye) tho I will consult some high end players first before anything.

I think the ending could look a bit more symetric or pleasing but I might just be wrong and it could be fine as it is. Anyways, I will try to get that veredict done for tonight.

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

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Akasha- 2017-04-05T16:44:31+00:00

It's not impossible to play, someone does FC'ed it. jakads himself is an example, in early stage of first qualified I watched his gameplay.
The map supposed to be challenge. I can't understand why everyone forced ExPew to do what he don't want to, he explained many times, he do progress quite a lot already, taking critisms like you've asked but yet someone doesn't new ending so he reverted it.
And you're saying I can't judge the map? So my mod and testplay for the map is meaningless? Judge doesn't mean you can only do that by gameplay, a few gameplay would help to check the comfortability but playability isn't the only way to judge can you just understand what I'm saying? It's rude and my thought you guys mean that I go blindly nominated this mapset for no reasons.

And again, why? ExPew even give you guys 3 months of period, after DQ-ed on January, everything calmed down and we thought you are COMPLETELY fine with it, now continue with a group of "community" after juankristal showed up?

And no hate, did you ever mod a 7K map before, juankristal? Or just popped the bubble because of "community voice"?
You can hate this map/song, but that doesn't mean ALL players hate it, ALL mappers hate it, I repeat, ALL, not a group of 20 people with haters. It's not neccessary to force other to do something they don't like, frame-work job is no good. Even thought I hate MEMORIA but since mapper want to keep and BNs want to try something uncommon in ranking, they do. And yes, 4K, love for stepmania.

We care what you said, we read what you wrote, we listen and understand what you're trying to say, but going on, we don't want to neccessary follow what you said if we have a good reason to do that, or you guys didn't care what we said and our effort putted on here, or just watch the result and spoil it all?
17VA: Know what you're saying, did you even look to the thread itself?

So, ExPew changed then stop please, it's better for you to pass over lower tier difficulities than just focus on one last diff to understand how the map was going on, it's just like you watching the end of a new movie.

Thanks. I stop here, I'm sorry if I'm salty.

SPOILER

I belive Glorious Crown got the same treats, many people said they will mod it but it been 2 weeks since last DQ and Interlude-and Tifyron and Tode are 3 people only came back

Last edited by Akasha- 2017-04-05T17:05:02+00:00, edited 6 times in total.

ExPew

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ExPew 2017-04-05T16:45:27+00:00

if we are moving on there is only juan job that you need to do and you know that

juankristal

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juankristal 2017-04-05T17:10:45+00:00

Kuo Kyoka wrote:
It's not impossible to play, someone does FC'ed it. jakads himself is an example, in early stage of first qualified I watched his gameplay.
The map supposed to be challenge. I can't understand why everyone forced ExPew to do what he don't want to, he explained many times, he do progress quite a lot already, taking critisms like you've asked but yet someone doesn't new ending so he reverted it.
And you're saying I can't judge the map? So my mod and testplay for the map is meaningless? Judge doesn't mean you can only do that by gameplay, a few gameplay would help to check the comfortability but playability isn't the only way to judge can you just understand what I'm saying? It's rude and my thought you guys mean that I go blindly nominated this mapset for no reasons.

And again, why? ExPew even give you guys 3 months of period, after DQ-ed on January, everything calmed down and we thought you are COMPLETELY fine with it, now continue with a group of "community" after juankristal showed up?

And no hate, did you ever mod a 7K map before, juankristal? Or just popped the bubble because of "community voice"?
You can hate this map/song, but that doesn't mean ALL players hate it, ALL mappers hate it, I repeat, ALL, not a group of 20 people with haters. It's not neccessary to force other to do something they don't like, frame-work job is no good.
We care what you said, we read what you wrotr, we listen and understand what you're trying to say, but going on, we don't want to neccessary follow what you said if we have a good reason to do that, or you guys didn't care what we said and our effort putted on here, or just watch the result and spoil it all?
17VA: Know what you're saying, did you even look to the thread itself?

So, ExPew changed then stop please, it's better for you to pass over lower tier difficulities than just focus on one last diff to understand how the map was going on, it's just like you watching the end of a new movie.

Thanks. I stop here, I'm sorry if I'm salty.

SPOILER
I belive Glorious Crown got the same treats, many people said they will mod it but it been 2 weeks since last DQ and Interlude-and Tifyron and Tode are 3 people only came back

Yeah, while I didnt mod 7K that much I care about what I do and I talk with people about the choices I will take before I take them. After a 3 month period of modding stuff got modded and changed, then at the end you bubbled it with the changes of those mods reverted. Figure out what you say. As I marked in red, you can pmuch see the issue.

If you want to map for a certain group of the community thats absolutely alright, map for those... 5 players? I dont even know how much they are. When you complained about Space Time, you complained HARD, and so I am this time around because I was convinced that what was done here was not alright and it should be changed. You are doing the over-drama AGAIN as it is frequent from you each time someone attacks a map from you (which I can see why, noone feels happy after being attacked, but you better learn that sometimes you are not right and peoplle will complain about that). I am the voice of a group of people that thinks that the map was not ready, including myself. I was the one pulling the trigger and thats why so many people came behind me saying what they said, because they want, not because I told them to do so. Probably the same thing that happens with you/expew/richard/yahao.

When ExPew made the change, no one of the other part complained anymore. Probably looking at the chart and started judging at its new state (or at least I did) but then you were the one starting up a discussion again so we answer (I am using you as 17VA, Kawawa more than you as KK).

ExPew rude, deleting the post saying that I should rebubble

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

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Akasha- 2017-04-05T17:23:46+00:00

juankristal wrote:
And last, any BN can pop any bubble at any time before something is qualified. The BN who got his bubble popped can icon the set again until both parts find an agreement. I am trying to go with some pattern derivations of what ExPew has right now to try and reflect how is it achieved right now in at least a better way (to not be 100% the guy who says, this is bad, fix k bye) tho I will consult some high end players first before anything.

I think the ending could look a bit more symetric or pleasing but I might just be wrong and it could be fine as it is. Anyways, I will try to get that veredict done for tonight.

Dear juankristal,
By what you said, you can't unsure something by yourself even, that make me rethink that you pop the bubble just because you feel that map is not ready and everyone (your community voices) think like you, but not because you have a special details on it: "why and why should not?"

So, please define bad? What is bad to you in the ending?

juankristal

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juankristal 2017-04-05T17:31:22+00:00

Kuo Kyoka wrote:
juankristal wrote:
And last, any BN can pop any bubble at any time before something is qualified. The BN who got his bubble popped can icon the set again until both parts find an agreement. I am trying to go with some pattern derivations of what ExPew has right now to try and reflect how is it achieved right now in at least a better way (to not be 100% the guy who says, this is bad, fix k bye) tho I will consult some high end players first before anything.

I think the ending could look a bit more symetric or pleasing but I might just be wrong and it could be fine as it is. Anyways, I will try to get that veredict done for tonight.
Dear juankristal,
By what you said, you can't unsure something by yourself even, that make me rethink that you pop the bubble just because you feel that map is not ready and everyone (your community voices) think like you, but not because you have a special details on it: "why and should not why?"

So, please define bad? What is bad to you in the ending?

I was sure the end was at a bad state because it was quite obvious. This year around given that I don't consider myself to be good enough to tell if that ending would play just fine or if it still should be reconsidered.

There are multiple ways to approach the ending which could be more pleasing, more challenging and even in different ways imo. Could very well be something like symmetrical 2 note jacks, a mixed combination as ExPew is using atm, something more strain and have a longer jack than normal for like the first notes and then transition into a mix or the previous ways. I just want to figure out the one that plays best so this map doesn't suffer more criticism further on and it can go away without more people making it harder. (I guess you can call that trying to reach a better agreement)

The ending before was solely bad for what I mentioned multiple times, didn't quite make sense with the rest of the map plus a 25 note jack, in all scenarios, is something real serious and completely missplaced I would say in like 99% of the times (leaving aside really dumb consistent jack challenges which could be something like angelic layer for 4k I guess to say an example from the top of my head even tho the map is likely even more questionable than this hah).

ExPew

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ExPew 2017-04-05T17:44:05+00:00

alright drop that spinning post and move on.

juankristal

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juankristal 2017-04-05T18:15:43+00:00

So this is what I find out to be what I would end up doing, ExPew, I would like your thoughts on this and potentially talk about it to get into a middle point with it and both be okey.

Infection diff:

02:33:292 -

The way I drafted this is in a way where it is symetrical-ish I guess. You can also do some mixing and instead of making it full like that it could be [67][23][56] etc (all of them being 2 note jacks ofc). I think it would be more playable overall.

This is another example of the usage, a bit more challlenging and harder:

But then again we reach another issue which would be the other long jacks:

02:25:527 - 02:14:233 - this ones being the most significants. So here it would happen the thing I mentioned earlier but in the opposite way. How to fix this well, you always have the option of rotating this into 2 sets of jacks instead only one but I imagine you want to keep them so, you could try and use the 4th column a bit in the ending to balance that gap out a little bit. In my honest opinion, I would change the remaining jacks that I marked into 2 bllocks of jacks or maybe even like the ending I proposed splitting them into 2 note jacks.

Tell me what you think about them so we decide what to do after all.

For the insane difficulty however I believe that would create a gap between both endings so you probably want to change that ending a little bit too. Keeping it as a double trill until 02:34:351 - that part should be good enough but I guess you could draft something else like having sudden 2 note jacks instead. Just make it easier than the proposed ending of the hardest diff and avoid the 4note jack usage for spread reasons. In any case, I am up for debating this further and reach conclusions that satisfies both of us.

Waiting for your answer then.

ExPew

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ExPew 2017-04-05T19:24:19+00:00

juankristal wrote:
So this is what I find out to be what I would end up doing, ExPew, I would like your thoughts on this and potentially talk about it to get into a middle point with it and both be okey.

Infection diff:

02:33:292 -

The way I drafted this is in a way where it is symetrical-ish I guess. You can also do some mixing and instead of making it full like that it could be [67][23][56] etc (all of them being 2 note jacks ofc). I think it would be more playable overall.

based on pic, people can fc with ease by simply spam with 3 finger ( no need to read the note column changes ) and easier than Insane diff jack.
referring to the right finger jack i made last time, due to the complaint where it caused a spike on the right and a bit too long, i arranged it with 2 fingers left and right together for better playability which some player has difficulty of a weak right spot for the jack

This is another example of the usage, a bit more challlenging and harder:

But then again we reach another issue which would be the other long jacks:

continuous jack on space is not recommend for me because we don't know player will play it by using left or right thumb since it's a long jack on this part.

02:25:527 - 02:14:233 - this ones being the most significants. So here it would happen the thing I mentioned earlier but in the opposite way. How to fix this well, you always have the option of rotating this into 2 sets of jacks instead only one but I imagine you want to keep them so, you could try and use the 4th column a bit in the ending to balance that gap out a little bit. In my honest opinion, I would change the remaining jacks that I marked into 2 bllocks of jacks or maybe even like the ending I proposed splitting them into 2 note jacks.

i have to refuse. im following the instrument pitch and this section is not for extensive long jack. if you think there is a less column usage, the music already fit it well with the current note.]

Tell me what you think about them so we decide what to do after all.

For the insane difficulty however I believe that would create a gap between both endings so you probably want to change that ending a little bit too. Keeping it as a double trill until 02:34:351 - that part should be good enough but I guess you could draft something else like having sudden 2 note jacks instead. Just make it easier than the proposed ending of the hardest diff and avoid the 4note jack usage for spread reasons. In any case, I am up for debating this further and reach conclusions that satisfies both of us.

considering to nerf the jack due to slight gap on Hard diff (single note stream without any jack). this might look better

Waiting for your answer then.

i change again ending jack pattern make it more balance. please look again.

apart from the jack ending part issue, if you are still not satisfied then kindly enlighten me.
with a video or maybe a liveplay to ensure that you can actually nominate stuff that you can "judge". jk

juankristal

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juankristal 2017-04-05T22:52:02+00:00

So, the insane part looks cool so let leave that as resolved already.

For the ending, I guess your arguments are fair. I understasnd your point of FC with ease by spamming and I find it fair enough to let it as it is.

Although, I think that if you ended up changing that ending you should stay consistent with the rest, I know the change hurts and it might be against your ideals, but hey, you can keep up the difficulty level of the ending into the other parts too.

So lets mark all the long jacks that are questionable:

02:07:880 (127880|6,127880|4,127969|6,127969|4,128057|4,128057|6,128145|4,128145|6) - Just doing a ctrl+h here to split the 8 note jack into 2 different 4 blocks should be good enough for players to still take it as a challenge yet not be completely out of place compared to the rest of the chart.

02:14:233 - For this section, I think using blocks of 2 jacks each would be the best idea to go. Think it this way, if the ending is supposed to be the harder part of the map then this should have somewhat of an easier pattering and having an extended lenght of 2 jack blocks is probably a good setup for the harder ending. Other options are also viable such as separating it into 3 blocks of 4 jacks or doing something like the ending but in an easier scale.

02:25:527 - Same thing should apply here, in fact, if you want to make the players have to deal with a challenge you could have something a bit different or some sort of deviation of the previous suggestion/ending since at the end of the day, if all the patterns work the same "way" as in, they have the same strucutre, it would target just a specific term of playstyle but you can very well test it in different ways avoiding pattern repetition if that makes sense.

This would also sorta fix the gap between insane and infection difficulties which were kinda huge even before the first change ever.

when did I say I was going to rebubble this mfw, anyways, dont worry about that

Akasha-

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Akasha- 2017-04-06T02:14:21+00:00

ExPew

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ExPew 2017-04-06T13:26:57+00:00

juankristal wrote:
So, the insane part looks cool so let leave that as resolved already.

For the ending, I guess your arguments are fair. I understasnd your point of FC with ease by spamming and I find it fair enough to let it as it is.

Although, I think that if you ended up changing that ending you should stay consistent with the rest, I know the change hurts and it might be against your ideals, but hey, you can keep up the difficulty level of the ending into the other parts too.

So lets mark all the long jacks that are questionable:

02:07:880 (127880|6,127880|4,127969|6,127969|4,128057|4,128057|6,128145|4,128145|6) - Just doing a ctrl+h here to split the 8 note jack into 2 different 4 blocks should be good enough for players to still take it as a challenge yet not be completely out of place compared to the rest of the chart.

02:14:233 - For this section, I think using blocks of 2 jacks each would be the best idea to go. Think it this way, if the ending is supposed to be the harder part of the map then this should have somewhat of an easier pattering and having an extended lenght of 2 jack blocks is probably a good setup for the harder ending. Other options are also viable such as separating it into 3 blocks of 4 jacks or doing something like the ending but in an easier scale.

02:25:527 - Same thing should apply here, in fact, if you want to make the players have to deal with a challenge you could have something a bit different or some sort of deviation of the previous suggestion/ending since at the end of the day, if all the patterns work the same "way" as in, they have the same strucutre, it would target just a specific term of playstyle but you can very well test it in different ways avoiding pattern repetition if that makes sense.

This would also sorta fix the gap between insane and infection difficulties which were kinda huge even before the first change ever.

when did I say I was going to rebubble this mfw, anyways, dont worry about that

i might not explain in detail on the above post. i follow the music pitch on this section and this is not the kind of abuse like ending part i did previously.

to be honest, the ending part is a bit more harder than older ver ( due to your point stating to nerf the right-part jack. yes i nerf it though it does not look like one. everything is now spread together with both column jack. we both can take the pain too, sounds fair? )

although, maybe this kind of music itself fits the jack pattern (blame the composer kthxbye). like other beatmap too which has good put on the sv change that looks 'too much' and might be 'abusive' in terms of readability ( ofc you need to play more and memorize the sv flow ) and i don't say they're abusing anymore since we want more advanced and new unique things.

Soul Evans

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Soul Evans 2017-04-09T18:54:09+00:00

Yeah you pretty much made it worse man

There is alot of ways to do the ending better than what you did but oh well.

The fact this is now underrated also makes me kinda sad, especially since the jacks for some sections aren't consistent at all with the ending, and you raised HP now i think? anyways, i'd rather fail the old version with an S than playing this new one, not saying the old one was perfect and all, but you had done it in a way that's not as better as the old one, which is why i'm gonna take some time modding this later or talk to you about it and what not.

Another Lie

Another Lie 2017-04-09T19:15:14+00:00

Maybe a bit suggestion after conflict ends. I'm shocked when i updated the new ver, oh god 9.6HP T_T
Feel free to do as you wish for my suggestion

Infection

01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|5,66204|6,66248|4,66292|2,66336|0,66380|1,66425|2) - maybe you could make it like this or reversed ver of these notes 02:13:880 (133880|2,133925|0,133969|2,134013|0,134057|4,134101|6,134145|4,134189|6) -
i feel this original is pretty harder to read because of 01:06:248 (66248|4,66292|2) - i thought you were separating them by 4 notes [i mean 2 notes in 2 column] but i was mistaken.

I'm looking forward for your re-bubble

Akasha-

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Akasha- 2017-04-10T07:01:54+00:00

How many times I had to repeat myself
1. To follow everyone's taste is not an easy task, people want this, then people want that.
2. It's fine to spoke out your opinion, but not in a forced way, this was how ExPew make a map, or I would say "Personal Concept", the way you think the map is bad but he think it's good, you can think your opinion is good and they must fix it but that could not be good to other. So this is how forum and disscussion exists, everyone can say their opinion here and the mapper has a job is to reply and fix it if it's reasonable to him/her, opposite, they can refuse to fix it if it's not a good way to solve the problem but make it worse. The circle is still going, and we won't find the solution here.
3. You can't change things made by other with your own taste. ExPew knows what is the best for this map (Especially that someone can even FC old one). New pattern basically harder because it wasn't focus on one-hand like the old one, however, you still can managed to pass it, it may look harder but we fixed that 24-jack like what you said. Or did you want [13] [57] and [12][34][56][71][23][45][67] (?)

Nothing to say more. You're free to understand it.

ExPew

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Topic Starter

ExPew 2017-04-10T13:52:09+00:00

Soul Evans wrote:
Yeah you pretty much made it worse man

There is alot of ways to do the ending better than what you did but oh well.
i'd like your point modding later cause i rejected juankristal's point ending part cause 'too easy' with simply spam

The fact this is now underrated also makes me kinda sad,
it doesn't matter to me. (SR is a crap and easy to abuse)

especially since the jacks for some sections aren't consistent at all with the ending, and you raised HP now i think?
im already out of idea pattern and try to avoid use 'space' column note, definitely i would reject it, HP? yes for anti-spam

anyways, i'd rather fail the old version with an S than playing this new one, not saying the old one was perfect and all, but you had done it in a way that's not as better as the old one, which is why i'm gonna take some time modding this later or talk to you about it and what not.
older version was easier to fc than latest you need to reading skill to jack'em perfectly. let's hear your modding later.

Kamikaze

2,898 posts

Joined November 2012

Kamikaze 2017-04-10T19:26:56+00:00

star rating is destryoing this game, no joke lmao
people only care about it nowadays, and that's sad

I support the HP raise as well, just 10 pesos this time

ExPew

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ExPew 2017-04-13T20:00:07+00:00

check this thread :thonking:

-Kamikaze- wrote:
star rating is destryoing this game, no joke lmao
people only care about it nowadays, and that's sad

I support the HP raise as well, just 10 pesos this time

2017 mapper still care the SR? lmao
this chart quite 'easy to read' so yeah it worth to raise HP i want HP10

AncuL

1,114 posts

Joined March 2013

AncuL 2017-04-14T13:26:44+00:00

knowing the diff have a part with super long jacks (02:25:527 - ), i think it'd be better if the ending is made around that kind of difficulty becasuse imo the ending should be the hardest part of the game (nerfing that long jack part is also quite alright if you want to separate it into 3 4-note long jacks)

ExPew

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ExPew 2017-04-14T13:32:39+00:00

AncuL wrote:
knowing the diff have a part with super long jacks (02:25:527 - ), i think it'd be better if the ending is made around that kind of difficulty becasuse imo the ending should be the hardest part of the game (nerfing that long jack part is also quite alright if you want to separate it into 3 4-note long jacks)

i think current ending part already hardest i made, cause you cannot simply spam when note jack column keep changing. ( obviously you will get '50 or miss' )

AncuL

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Joined March 2013

AncuL 2017-04-18T05:22:51+00:00

ExPew wrote:
i think current ending part already hardest i made, cause you cannot simply spam when note jack column keep changing. ( obviously you will get '50 or miss' )

my score
here's some replay if necessary
there you can see where i do better and where i do worse. i managed to 300 on many notes at the ending while i struggle from having misses on the long jacks. well yeah i can't do jacks for more than 4 notes straight but if you aim this to be played by players who plays 6-7 star maps, don't expect them to really spam the ending because they won't
my suggestion would be to use longer jacks (4-6 notes) but still keeping the "hard-to-spam" nature to the pattern because currently the longest jack on the ending is just two notes long jack and it's not that hard to nail

and hey it's just my suggestion feel free to deny

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2017-04-27T21:17:46+00:00

Another Lie wrote:
Maybe a bit suggestion after conflict ends. I'm shocked when i updated the new ver, oh god 9.6HP T_T
Feel free to do as you wish for my suggestion
Infection
01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|5,66204|6,66248|4,66292|2,66336|0,66380|1,66425|2) - maybe you could make it like this or reversed ver of these notes 02:13:880 (133880|2,133925|0,133969|2,134013|0,134057|4,134101|6,134145|4,134189|6) -
i feel this original is pretty harder to read because of 01:06:248 (66248|4,66292|2) - i thought you were separating them by 4 notes [i mean 2 notes in 2 column] but i was mistaken. All fixed, but hey i didn't expect this pattern can do well lol
I'm looking forward for your re-bubble

AncuL wrote:
ExPew wrote:
i think current ending part already hardest i made, cause you cannot simply spam when note jack column keep changing. ( obviously you will get '50 or miss' )
my score
here's some replay if necessary
there you can see where i do better and where i do worse. i managed to 300 on many notes at the ending while i struggle from having misses on the long jacks. well yeah i can't do jacks for more than 4 notes straight but if you aim this to be played by players who plays 6-7 star maps, don't expect them to really spam the ending because they won't.
if they won't, then they can read the pattern together with jack very well. the different is previously part is not to use your reading skills. so yeah you can full force on your jack skills.
my suggestion would be to use longer jacks (4-6 notes) but still keeping the "hard-to-spam" nature to the pattern because currently the longest jack on the ending is just two notes long jack and it's not that hard to nail
if ending part you think easier, i think previously part jack is easier to me. Fair right?

and hey it's just my suggestion feel free to deny

aaand i don't see incoming mod in 21days and got nothing reply on my post. oh well, time to move on.

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2017-04-28T02:27:37+00:00

All I can see is just a thread of a BN popped a bubble and a couple of people want to against this map because they think the map wasn't ready and I am not being able to judges the map.

Not mentioning about the joke because it was April Fools, the BN did pop bubble for this map is not appearing for a long period already, almost one month, go along with other who said they will mod it but all we got are just fall hopes

It seems like all they want is to kill mapper's movitation and let's this map go to graveyard. Seems like you guys don't want to give more mods to this map. I will give you 72 hours, If no one appeared to against this map or they don't want to, I will take over this map once again.

All I need is just a spare time from real life works.

juankristal

osu! Alumni

1,408 posts

Joined August 2010

juankristal 2017-04-28T03:48:37+00:00

Not really, I gave my opinion already but besides the ending, nothing changed. I saw some people trying to mod this and they got shut down by a negative attitude so no big news there either.

I am still against the long 12/10 note jack so there isnt much I can really express anymore about it. I am keeping my veto on this one because of it and I am not really on the mood to keep modding this. Since the rules allowes you to re-bubble this since this is not STD just go ahead and do it (there should be another time to talk about that specific rule to rework it so vetoing actually makes some sense lol).

I still think it doesnt really make sense to map something hard because you can map it hard and there are like a small part of the playerbase who is actually able to play it but oh well. Might this be the reason to start mapping really bullshit stuff for real from now on :p

I support the HP raise tho, because it makes more sense for the playerbase you are aiming for.

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2017-04-28T05:08:56+00:00

Isn't the mapper already gave the replies? You can think it's bad and you want to change it but that's not how it works, the mapper can either change or reject it if it's not good to themself. You can't just being away for the whole month and come back: "Hey, you not changing like what I said? It's not like I care about your reply but dude, change it or else no bubble"

There is a few things: veto doesn't mean you must let the mapper change everything by your own opinion, they're also have their opinions, ExPew's long years experienced in mapping, more than anyone else in here. If the things is bad and he argees with your mod, he will fix, he can reply to you that he will or he will not fix it along with reasons of why.
If this is what you want how the veto rules go by then, I already make a big long thread in MEMORIA about why you still keep that? From the results, I don't because of: First, the mapper already giving why and should change/keep, I'm fine either ways if the map going well too. Second, I'm not that good in 4K, so go to you with 7K as your current experienced in 7K. And third: even stepmania have their own rank. And most of all, you still don't want to let us to rebubble the map because you want to change it even the mapper already tired enough to reply with reason every single posts and go away for a whole month without a single notify on why you don't want to recheck it.
If you don't want to recheck anymore, doesn't mean you can let this map go to graveyard, doesn't mean you can abandon the map.

Again, If you DON'T want to recheck this map because you still think it's bad and the mapper must change it, just say, so we will handle all the things from now on. We knows what is the best for this map should be, we're not monster that kills your keyboard. So just don't give us fall hopes.

Thank you! Have a good day.

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2017-04-28T05:27:42+00:00

juankristal wrote:
Not really, I gave my opinion already but besides the ending, nothing changed. I saw some people trying to mod this and they got shut down by a negative attitude so no big news there either.

I am still against the long 12/10 note jack so there isnt much I can really express anymore about it. I am keeping my veto on this one because of it and I am not really on the mood to keep modding this. Since the rules allowes you to re-bubble this since this is not STD just go ahead and do it (there should be another time to talk about that specific rule to rework it so vetoing actually makes some sense lol).
did you read post on 22 days ago? or you just don't want to see it? i've told you how the music work able to follow (as long they're not abused). the main issue has been fixed looong ago due to ending jack part is was 'retarded' you said. and then you're trying to nerf everything related with music now. lol

I still think it doesnt really make sense to map something hard because you can map it hard and there are like a small part of the playerbase who is actually able to play it but oh well. Might this be the reason to start mapping really bullshit stuff for real from now on :p
same reason i said before i might not explain here anymore :facepalm:. if you think this map is bullshit because of jack style. think about it with someone already abuse it with other style.I don't want to say anymore and i just you want think before act

I support the HP raise tho, because it makes more sense for the playerbase you are aiming for.

juankristal

osu! Alumni

1,408 posts

Joined August 2010

juankristal 2017-04-28T06:39:36+00:00

Isnt a Veto being against something thats happening? I mean yeah, its probably more extreme than that but again, this is not something I think deserves to be ranked at this state for reasons that I already pointed out. I understand tho that you are mad at me because I took to long to even give a reply to this (and yeah, I am sorry for that, not even going to give an excuse tbh)

You using your own mindsets to answer my complains wont change my mind on this which is why I am keeping the veto on it. About your post on Memoria its your fault for not doing the veto if you felt it was overmapped or wrong/bad/anything. Thats why the veto exists, its about something being subjective.

I wasnt even going to rebubble this at all since the very first post because I dont want to icon this.

And again, me being on Veto against this doesnt mean he cant rank this anymore. Absolutely the opposite, prove me wrong that the community really supports and wants this and get the BNs needed to get this ranked still and then I would have to eat my words (which again, is part of how the veto works, finding an agreement or finding more people who supports what it is).

Expew: Using "jack style" doesnt mean you have to use an overdone amount of them. You could very well keep that jack style and make it so your map is still challenging (and even harder actually) without using the [57] repetition jack over there. Or even so, if you are claiming to be using a "jack style" you could very well apply it to the whole map and not just to the ending to spike the hell out of it in that specific style. Beside the fact of the intro being so undermapped overall as well. I could just state the same I stated multiple times but its not worth it.

Finally, what the kek went up with stepmania on your thread KK, I am seriously confused.

Sleep time, in case you still want to talk about this later I will take a while to answer.

Akasha-

Nomination Assessment Team

4,423 posts

Joined April 2013

Akasha- 2017-04-28T07:07:20+00:00

juankristal wrote:
Isnt a Veto being against something thats happening? I mean yeah, its probably more extreme than that but again, this is not something I think deserves to be ranked at this state for reasons that I already pointed out. I understand tho that you are mad at me because I took to long to even give a reply to this (and yeah, I am sorry for that, not even going to give an excuse tbh)

You using your own mindsets to answer my complains wont change my mind on this which is why I am keeping the veto on it. About your post on Memoria its your fault for not doing the veto if you felt it was overmapped or wrong/bad/anything. Thats why the veto exists, its about something being subjective.

I wasnt even going to rebubble this at all since the very first post because I dont want to icon this.
That's what I want to know, you can at least say it directly from one month ago though, but thanks.

And again, me being on Veto against this doesnt mean he cant rank this anymore. Absolutely the opposite, prove me wrong that the community really supports and wants this and get the BNs needed to get this ranked still and then I would have to eat my words (which again, is part of how the veto works, finding an agreement or finding more people who supports what it is).
The whole community, every single people in the community are against this or something? I can see there are still people against this map, which make them feel uncomfortable to their gameplay, they can come up with an arguement and all we can do is to reply to it with reason why to keep or change it. But yet, there are also people are supporting this map. We're not always right, so does you, veto is means to make an arguement to the best opinion, but yet, you can't just force them to change it to your veto and igroned all of ExPew's reply why he keep it.
Or you're the leader of osu!mania community that you know everyone against this map (?)

Expew: Using "jack style" doesnt mean you have to use an overdone amount of them. You could very well keep that jack style and make it so your map is still challenging (and even harder actually) without using the [57] repetition jack over there. Or even so, if you are claiming to be using a "jack style" you could very well apply it to the whole map and not just to the ending to spike the hell out of it in that specific style. Beside the fact of the intro being so undermapped overall as well. I could just state the same I stated multiple times but its not worth it.
He already changed new patterns and you guys still not satisfied? Cheeee...
The fact that there is the feeling on some parts which is better to make with easy patterns and yet, to comfortable with music itself and a little warm-up to the players! Not every parts need to be hard just because it's an Extra diff. Not every single sound you need to presents it with a note.

Finally, what the kek went up with stepmania on your thread KK, I am seriously confused.
Confused

Sleep time, in case you still want to talk about this later I will take a while to answer.

Spinning posts make me dizzy, I want to take a rest already.

ExPew

Elite Mapper

1,220 posts

Joined January 2011

Topic Starter

ExPew 2017-04-28T07:34:55+00:00

juankristal wrote:
Isnt a Veto being against something thats happening? I mean yeah, its probably more extreme than that but again, this is not something I think deserves to be ranked at this state for reasons that I already pointed out. I understand tho that you are mad at me because I took to long to even give a reply to this (and yeah, I am sorry for that, not even going to give an excuse tbh)

You using your own mindsets to answer my complains wont change my mind on this which is why I am keeping the veto on it. About your post on Memoria its your fault for not doing the veto if you felt it was overmapped or wrong/bad/anything. Thats why the veto exists, its about something being subjective.
~~is it part of your fault too? you also appear on that thread why not veto it by yourself?~~ meh nvm, something comes up to me about veto, nice rule :>.

I wasnt even going to rebubble this at all since the very first post because I dont want to icon this.
okay :>.

And again, me being on Veto against this doesnt mean he cant rank this anymore. Absolutely the opposite, prove me wrong that the community really supports and wants this and get the BNs needed to get this ranked still and then I would have to eat my words (which again, is part of how the veto works, finding an agreement or finding more people who supports what it is).
first of thing, im not type to find attention or advertise my map to get support (at least the 'favorite' considered as support my map and i'm very grateful to them). they free will to support or not to support. Can you clarify 'the community' support but they didn't give any feedback on the thread to ensure your support? i'd like their 'complains' what are they thinking.

Expew: Using "jack style" doesnt mean you have to use an overdone amount of them. You could very well keep that jack style and make it so your map is still challenging (and even harder actually) without using the [57] repetition jack over there. Or even so, if you are claiming to be using a "jack style" you could very well apply it to the whole map and not just to the ending to spike the hell out of it in that specific style.
i don't get what the hell are you talking about. did i fixed it ending jack and replied your mod post with my reason? just i want to know WHY you don't accept on music instrument follow or pitch on certain parts in short time? it's not claim as jackstyle just you said but this music is able to use jack pattern. btw ,check latest update please. (you're argue about 3 months ago ending jack pattern)

??? ???

Beside the fact of the intro being so undermapped overall as well. I could just state the same I stated multiple times but its not worth it.
???????????????????
so what's the problem with undermapped/underrate? isnt this chart is quite clear easy to read? it's worth current SR with current pattern instead of chordmashstreamteleportstarabuseblablabla you support it. In fact, you're PP lover.

Finally, what the kek went up with stepmania on your thread KK, I am seriously confused.

Sleep time, in case you still want to talk about this later I will take a while to answer.

Lirai

1,516 posts

Joined December 2013

Lirai 2017-05-08T16:12:07+00:00

Go Wild !

Arzenvald

4,063 posts

Joined July 2013

Arzenvald 2017-05-09T04:26:16+00:00

reversed density w

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