stupud man wrote:

this took me a while but im not gonna guarantee that all these changes are spot on, however most of them are necessary
i've made 2 seperate mods, one is chordstream-based, the other is minijack-based. both charts have lower star rating, however both of these charts are much more playable and better reflect the difficulty. please read both mods, as i reference each mod from time to time

[Infection]
1|2|3|4|5|6|7

chordstream-based proposal

Any change proposed with "move to..." will usually be changing longjacks to spread them out as to be more comfortable while spreading the notes out across the playfield

00:18:204 (18204|0,18204|4) - to keep these more comfortable move these to 3 and 7 huh? are you sure to make trill this part? even Insane already did.
00:18:380 (18380|0,18380|4) - same as above ^

00:22:704 (22704|2) - move to 5 why?
00:22:880 (22880|2,22880|6,22969|6,22969|2,23057|2,23057|6,23233|2,23233|6,23322|2,23322|6,23410|3,23410|5,23410|0) - change these so they create small doublestairs, should look like this they're still same pitch sound and able to do slight jackable in highest diff.

00:26:233 (26233|4,26410|5) - not much of a problem here but imo this pattern would be more comfortable if you moved these two notes a column to the right, this way there's no unexpected jack on key 5 see here as you can see, this pattern was mirrord on this part 00:25:527 (25527|2,25616|6,25704|1,25792|5,25880|3,25969|0,26057|4,26145|1) -
00:29:057 (29057|4,29233|5) - same as above ^

if the rest of the mod is applied, these next 2 notes i point out play awkwardly if left unchanged
00:42:027 (42027|2) - move to 2 this insane diff already did, why you don't revise them? or you just don't play it?
00:42:027 (42027|5) - move to 7 ^

00:52:351 (52351|0) - im thinking something like this will make this section more readable and comfortable as the jacks only being on keys 1, 3, 5, and 7 is confusing to play no good, i trying to ballance little bit

00:57:910 (57910|4,57910|2) - move these to 2 and 4
01:00:204 (60204|2,60204|0) - these to 2 and 4
01:00:292 (60292|2,60292|0) - these to 3 and 5
01:00:645 (60645|0,60645|2) - these to 5 and 7
01:04:351 (64351|4,64351|6) - 3 and 5
01:04:351 (64351|4,64351|6) - 4 and 6 are you trying to killing those jack? i'll explain below.

01:05:498 (65498|2) - move to 2
01:05:586 (65586|4,65675|4) - move to 6
01:05:763 (65763|0) - move to 2
01:05:851 (65851|6) - move to 6
01:06:292 (66292|4,66336|6,66380|4,66425|6) - turn these into a 4567 stair changed lower stair

01:10:969 (70969|2) - move to 2 you can hear this violin sounds a jackable here
01:11:322 (71322|2) - same as above

01:16:351 (76351|0) - all of the dense LN sections starting here (especially here 01:26:233 (86233|0) - )should be changed to be more readable but i have no idea how to go about doing this current already good instead of full LN style

01:34:792 (94792|4,94792|0) - move to 3 and 7 nope
01:34:969 (94969|4,94969|0) - move to 3 and 7 ^
01:35:145 (95145|5,95145|1) - move to 2 and 5 ^
01:35:145 (95145|5,95145|1) - move to 2 and 4 ^

these changes switch the longjack on 1 and 3 to a small bit of chordstreaming, if you want this to be more uniform you can probably switch it to doublestairs, although that pattern would still probably be uncomfortable
01:45:645 (105645|0,105645|2) - move to 4 and 6 seriously no
01:45:822 (105822|2,105822|4) - move to 2 and 5 ^
01:45:910 (105910|0,105910|2) - move to 4 and 6 ^

02:01:616 (121616|5,121616|6) - starting here, i made this change doesn't look like a jack?? why suddenly has 3 notes

02:07:880 (127880|6,127880|4) - starting here, change this section to this ^

02:14:057 (134057|4) - move to 4 - i managed some previous 1/8
02:14:101 (134101|6) - move to 5
02:14:145 (134145|4) - move to 6

02:14:233 (134233|0) - starting here, i changed the patterns up so theres some extra density and the notes are spread out no

02:18:822 (138822|5) - i found it tough to create a new pattern here with the notes given, but here's what I came up with (this suggestion isn't the best, but this part should be changed one way or another) please play Insane diff

02:21:645 (141645|4,141645|6) - starting here, change to something like this
02:23:057 (143057|0,143057|2) - whatever you change above, mirror it here

02:24:645 (144645|0) - this is much more comfortable
02:25:527 (145527|5) - starting here up until the end of the longjacks, added density here

02:25:527 (145527|5,145527|1) - https://gnf3.s-ul.eu/gBWeMvID maybe something like this is better, i know i recycled this pattern a lot so if you want to change it to a different chordstreaming pattern feel free yep still bother me, tested on qualified section someone fc'd on this part

02:31:880 (151880|0,151880|2) - https://gnf3.s-ul.eu/XHX14Plf this should work fine got something problem with this?why should be nerfed?

02:32:939 (152939|4,152939|6) - https://gnf3.s-ul.eu/qb60fu4n i changed the ending to this but it doesn't flow as nicely as i'd like it to, this is just a start but maybe some pattern based around this would be good, no good every note looks like a stair doesnt fit on music

minjack-based proposal

the vast majority of changes here will only be to keep longjacks from being too physically stressful to sustain, while keeping jacks as a main focus of the chart

00:18:116 (18116|4,18116|0,18204|0,18204|4) - move these four notes from 1 and 3 to 5 and 7

00:26:233 (26233|4,26410|5) - the mod i made above had my thoughts on this section, once again, not too big of a deal


00:52:351 (52351|0) - same as before, this will make this section more readable and comfortable

01:05:498 (65498|2) - move to 2
01:05:586 (65586|4,65675|4) - move to 6
01:05:763 (65763|0) - move to 2
01:05:851 (65851|6) - move to 6
01:06:292 (66292|4,66336|6,66380|4,66425|6) - turn these into a 4567 stair

01:10:969 (70969|2) - move to 2
01:11:322 (71322|2) - move to 2

still have the same opinions about the LN sections, but I don't have any suggestions

01:34:880 (94880|4,94880|0,94969|0,94969|4) - move to 2 and 5
01:35:057 (95057|0,95057|4,95145|4,95145|0) - move to 3 and 7

01:45:116 (105116|2,105116|0,105204|0,105204|2) - move to 2 and 4
01:45:380 (105380|6,105380|4,105469|4,105469|6) - move to 4 and 6

01:45:645 (105645|2,105645|0,105733|0,105733|2) - these can fit on 5 and 7

02:01:880 (121880|5,121880|6,121969|5,121969|6,122057|6,122057|5,122145|6,122145|5) - 3 and 4 probably
02:02:586 (122586|6,122586|5,122675|6,122675|5,122763|5,122763|6,122851|5,122851|6) - 4 and 5 work here - good, moved

02:07:880 (127880|4,127880|6,127969|4,127969|6,128057|6,128057|4,128145|6,128145|4) - move over to 1 and 3

02:14:057 (134057|4,134101|6,134145|4,134189|6) - change to 4567 stair

02:14:586 (134586|0,134586|2,134675|0,134675|2,134763|2,134763|0,134851|2,134851|0) - 5 and 7 here

02:18:822 (138822|5) - same as the first mod, here's what I came up with, im sure this pattern can be worked on, but it still plays better than the original chart

02:24:645 (144645|0) - this is much more comfortable
02:25:351 (145351|0) - same as above

02:25:704 (145704|5,145704|1,145792|1,145792|5) - move to 1 and 3
02:25:880 (145880|5,145880|1,145969|1,145969|5) - move to 5 and 7
02:26:233 (146233|5,146233|1,146322|1,146322|5) - move to 1 and 5
02:26:410 (146410|5,146410|1,146498|1,146498|5) - move to 3 and 7

02:32:057 (152057|0,152057|2,152145|2,152145|0) - move to 5 and 7

02:32:586 (152586|2,152586|0) - remove these, or make the release when 02:32:939 (152939|4,152939|6) - these notes begin

02:32:939 (152939|4,153027|4) - move to 6
02:33:116 (153116|6,153116|4,153204|4,153204|6) - move to 1 and 2
02:33:292 (153292|6,153380|6) - move to 6
02:33:469 (153469|6,153469|4,153557|4,153557|6) - move to 2 and 3
02:33:822 (153822|6,153822|4,153910|4,153910|6) - move to 1 and 3
02:33:998 (153998|4,154086|4) - move to 4
02:34:175 (154175|4,154175|6,154263|6,154263|4) - move to 1 and 2
02:34:527 (154527|6,154527|4,154616|4,154616|6) - move to 1 and 4
02:34:704 (154704|4,154792|4) - move to 6
02:34:880 (154880|6,154880|4,154969|4,154969|6) - move to 2 and 4 still same with insane diff.

stupud man wrote:

The majority of the parts are similar to the insane diff because going even further with the difficulty (whether the pitch relevancy is right or not) makes the chart unplayable. There's a reason the chart has a positive user rating, and it's because 1) nobody bothers to use user rating and 2) the people who did actually bother played the insane difficulty or even easier ones, where there isnt necessarily anything uncomfortable about them.

stupud man wrote:

I have only talked to 1 person who actually liked the Infection difficulty, and it mainly has to do with the amount of longjack charts they play (eg. LR2 jack scale). It's an unconventional "skill" that doesn't really determine if you have any. It's a gift to move your forearms at a high speed without doing much reading of the chart.

stupud man wrote:

So about pitch relevancy. There comes a time when pitch relevancy genuinely doesn't matter whatsoever, because following perfect pitch relevancy will eventually only make a chart more uncomfortable (see Dysnomia 8K prior to it's current version, where following pitch relevancy lead to extremely uncomfortable death jacks that didn't belong with the rest of the chart. this should sound familiar). That being said, pitch relevancy can still be noticed when playing small bursts of patterns (eg. FC's Blastix Riotz, he doesn't chart the 256bpm jumptrills as a single 256bpm jack. that's fucking outrageous). So, I think it's appropriate here to focus on playability over pitch relevancy, and no, a 24 note 170bpm longjack isn't playable by any means.

ExPew wrote:

just because this chart is not your cup of tea, I don't see the need of mentioning the chart is not compatible or unplayable

stupud man wrote:

I have only talked to 1 person who actually liked the Infection difficulty, and it mainly has to do with the amount of longjack charts they play (eg. LR2 jack scale).

ExPew wrote:

somehow you did mention about "skill" and "gift", well each individual has their own "gift" and "skills". like this map is focusing on less usage of chordstream
for those who are bad on sightreading but has the jack/spamming skills

ExPew wrote:

think about it. do you consider yourself as the person who has a clear understanding in it? if you think this is an abuse. i would have put 6 notes spam for the final part on each difficulties like i did in Influenza diff

ExPew wrote:

as a mapper, they must already know the limitations for what the music based for,

ExPew wrote:

this was intended for a challenge. however, it depends on the song, the rhythm and the bpm itself. it is mapper's choice to decide whether to make it a chordstream or jack or etc...

Nivrad00 wrote:

Worst thing that could happen is that people don't play it (but I'm sure every unranked mapper already knows what that's like hahaha)

ExPew wrote:

if people were that serious about the disqus comments, i bet most of the mappers already felt demotivated or maybe quit right away. like how does disqus became a base of your arguments if the comments are mostly meme stuff? imo they should have posted their thoughts in the thread itself to make it more constructive and relevant.

ExPew wrote:

longjacking was there for a reason, i'm not going to repeat what i have explained in my reply towards your mod.

ExPew wrote:

then why did you mentioned about comfortability at the first place even in your mod? as i said it was intended for a challenge, this has nothing to do with comfort. as a modder, it is worth to mention that you SHOULD know the common sense to avoid overriding the mapper's creativity.

ExPew wrote:

by your logic, two mapsets of the same song created by different mapper should be synchronized as long as there are elements that people feel comfortable when playing, and it must not based on the mapper's choice to decide the variety or the uniqueness of the mapset, right?

Ikaros- wrote:

I do not really enjoy your map, and I do not like your mapping style overall,and I
feel like this should not be ranked, but

Congratulations !

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

Unlike someone too selfish and think for themself, boohoo
Call their allies to red votes the map, haha, what a funny game.

Wh1teh wrote:

KK why do you keep passive aggressively attacking stupud man? He's posting criticism in order to improve the map and has given rational reasons to support his argument. People who don't like the chart will vote it down, that's how it works. Some people in this thread (not all) giving their praise to the set seem to not be even skilled enough to play the chart. While you have people like Gekido, stupud man and Jakads to name a few, voicing out their concern regarding the map. At this point it seems that it all depends on if the mapper actually wants to improve the chart and gain the approval of his fans AND the players, or will he be fine with his decision to surround himself with yesmen and filtering out the "haters" from his mind.

I'm not saying that the chart is bad or good, I don't play 7K and I don't care. I just hate to see this attitude that some people have, they think that some people are out there to get them. Players are your demographic, not your enemy. If they say that your chart isn't fun, you should know what to do.
Who will you listen to in this situation is up to you ExPew.

Fresh Chicken wrote:

It wouldn't be trustworthy for a person like me to say these words, but in my personal opinion a map with this kind of pattern style getting ranked doesn't change the way osu!mania ranked beatmaps will be in the future. I do agree with the statement saying that this beatmap is generally a bit overmapped. But if you have enough skills to play a 6* 4K map, you'll know this map is well structured and very fun to play. As a player, a mapper that likes challenges, and a modder, I support this map. The meaning of this beatmap getting ranked is only the fact that osu!mania ranked mapset pattern representations will be more free and available, only that.

-Kamikaze- wrote:

While I don't necessairly like this map in particular, I do have to agree with FC here.

I do appreciate that you guys are trying to push this map to rank, because it's unique, the same goes for maps like influenza recently. It's something that is weird, controversial, sure, but also it's bringing more variety to the ranked maps which is very appreciated.
And yeah, if this gets through that doesn't mean that any map like that wil get through. There have been examples of that in the past.

Like AiAe didn't bring more quadstream charts ranked. Batting show didn't really bring many ultra SV charts ranked (which I really hoped it would) and so on.
So I wish to see this ranked just to have more variety in ranked section.

Good luck!

Wh1teh wrote:

KK why do you keep passive aggressively attacking stupud man? He's posting criticism in order to improve the map and has given rational reasons to support his argument. People who don't like the chart will vote it down, that's how it works. Some people in this thread (not all) giving their praise to the set seem to not be even skilled enough to play the chart. While you have people like Gekido, stupud man and Jakads to name a few, voicing out their concern regarding the map. At this point it seems that it all depends on if the mapper actually wants to improve the chart and gain the approval of his fans AND the players, or will he be fine with his decision to surround himself with yesmen and filtering out the "haters" from his mind.

I'm not saying that the chart is bad or good, I don't play 7K and I don't care. I just hate to see this attitude that some people have, they think that some people are out there to get them. Players are your demographic, not your enemy. If they say that your chart isn't fun, you should know what to do.
Who will you listen to in this situation is up to you ExPew.

Maiz94 wrote:

Make love (variety style mapping), not war (nonconstructive feedback and selfish mod to change just only you and your shitty elitist fan-club)

kthxbai

Gekido- wrote:

That being said, I still believe that a couple of parts can still be changed in the map, for playability.
02:19:175 - The transition from the jack into the burst is extremely rough, and I think that something like this would likely play somewhat better, while still keeping it similar to what you have https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6814168

02:32:939 - The main problem is that this jack goes on for so long, that unless you're attang or some other vibro god, you probably can't hope to ever FC this part. Most people aren't even physically capable of playing it, and it isn't really much of something that can be trained (you can train consistency but not really speed in wrist-jacking/vibroing). I think it would be best to at least alternate between columns, instead of condensing it all into two columns. Here's what I came up with, but as long as you at least somewhat alternate between columns for the jacks, it will play much better https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6814237

I'm fine with most of the rest of the map outside of these two spots.

Maiz94 wrote:

If you are one from a casual player category, you can play other lower difficulties designed than Infection that the mapper has mapped with love for you to enjoy. You, as a casual player can also enjoy Infection difficulty BUT don't think and decide that this Infection difficulty lowers your play skill ability. Instead, take it as a challenge for you whether if you want it cleared as a target or just want to be combo-able all throughout the duration of the song.

If you didn't enjoy the Infection difficulty whether you take it as a challenge or just went for the play-for-fun thing with all those HT/NF mods kind of stuff, then you have played that 1 game far too long that you won't accept a single change on your desired pattern for you to play.

riktoi wrote:

01:57:844 - Considering the sound starts playing here the first roll should start here too. Also, since the first piano roll is faster than the others I'm pretty sure it should start with a 1/16 roll and then everything after that be 1/8. Making this comfortable might be hard but it's not exactly what you're going for with this chart anyway.

Fixed, need to confirm where the sound starts with the current update. I use stable 1/8 to play for 1 second piano roll.

00:53:057 (53057|4,53057|0,53145|2,53145|6,53233|4,53233|0,53322|6,53322|2,53410|4,53410|0,53498|6,53498|2) - If we're talking pitch relevancy, aren't these technically incorrect? since you have 6 note jacks somewhere else in the chart I don't think they would hurt too badly here. I respect your structuring so you probably know better here.

yeah, you're right. however it's quite overdone when the music going from the beginning to the middle chorus and make slight gap difficult jump here.

01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|3,66204|2,66248|1,66292|6,66336|5,66380|4,66425|3) - This is probably also about comfort. As someone who doesn't really play 7k I can't really tell how hard something is (since I can't play it) but at least I can check pitch relevancy. So, at 01:06:292 - the sound "changes", so I feel the roll could go into the opposite direction as the roll before does.

your point about 'sound changes' based on pitch, so i re-arranged to 'quick S' stair pattern. hopefully this problem is solved for you and others

01:10:704 - 01:11:410 - I feel like this section is a bit inconsistent with the jacks. 01:10:704 (70704|4,70704|0,70792|2) - this pattern and 01:10:880 (70880|0,70969|0) - do follow the same sound but they are charted differently. The pitch does change but there's no noticeable audio cue to justify this kind of change I suppose.

i think i already make minijack '2 by 2' on the violin sounds last time, well i got lots of feedback from here that it needs some slight nerf. i decided to make 12 11 12 11 lowest as slight stair and jack.

01:52:395 - If you wanted you could have a 1/8 snapped note here

Kuo confirm it for me on this snap

I think the ending currently follows pitch very nicely and it also gives it a bit more difficulty apart from just being raw speed. Good luck!

Soul Evans wrote:

Soul's random Modding
1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7

General

1. BPM: Okay
2. Offset: Okay
3. AiMod: Okay
4. Tags: Okay
5. BG: Okay
6. Kiai: Okay
7. Metadata: Okay
8. Folder’s problem: None
9. Hitsound: Okay
10. Timing: Okay
11. Other: Okay
    [Infection]
12. 00:18:469 (18469|0) - why does this note that's part of the chord interfering with the jacks? no need to add an extra jack note it doesn't follow rythm and makes the jack unbalanced, so i would move that
    
    oops, i went overboard. fixed.
    
13. 00:23:233 (23233|2,23233|6,23322|6,23322|2) - This doesn't play out smoothly in a way, not that jack by itself but how much it messes up so i might move those two in the middle, would turn out quite good i guess
    
    fixed, makes more balance pattern.
    
14. 00:30:469 - why don't you make this have two lns instead of one for the beat that's being louder than the earlier beat? i think it would play out nice to make the player feel the music more
    
    i don't think of making 2 lns here, they have their own specific melody itself
15. 00:25:527 (25527|2) - This might be better off on column 1, i mean, it feels unbalanced for me personally, and think it would be a better pattern intro for the LNs
    
    someone already pointed that this part is quite a mess. i think, i need to rework on this measure line ( im not sure for some improvement or remain as usual )
    
16. 00:30:469 - same here, like i said about it earlier
    
    ??? ???
    
17. 00:32:057 - I was thinking about maybe adding lns to this to fit the theme of map more and to represent the instrument beat i am hearing
    
    looks good and more fit on the rest of 1/4 LNs (ill fix the 1/2LN later on this chorus)
    
18. 00:36:292 - why does this pattern have to be the same as the one before it? when i was playing it i was expecting a jack so maybe move it to other cols would be better to make it have more variety to make it more fun!
    
    slight changes following the rhythm changes at 00:36:292 -
    
19. 00:38:057 (38057|2) - i kinda feel like this LN should extend to here 00:38:057 (38057|2) - it just feels awkward to me so i'm not sure.
    
    actually, i don't want to. it feels a little weird
    
20. 00:39:469 - same here ^
    
21. 00:57:910 (57910|2,57998|2) - maybe try avoiding this
    
    moved the LN to 1st column, kinda feels little weird.
    
22. 01:00:822 - I think there should be a 3rd jack here, the sound supports it i think
    
    nope, i'll just switch the LNs on other column
    
23. 01:06:998 - why not make these violin sounds LN? think it would be more consistent that way add short lns i love them pls
24. 01:09:645 - ^
    
    i can't make a suitable 1/4 LN here for this part sounds. so i decided to switch to normal note here. and other next part. i'll changed to LNs ( kinda tricky lol )
    
25. 01:16:880 (76880|4,76969|6,77057|3,77145|6) - If you could just, find a way these don't touch each other it would be extremely fun to play through this i trust you know how to change it sine you're expew after all! : )
    
    
    im planning to make it like this, however that note that was highlighted makes some major error http://puu.sh/tsFQN/92024d0ac1.jpg .
    im going to remap this part ( if you disagree with new changes, i'd like to see your suggestion)
    
26. 01:27:645 - maybe you should add an ln for the scream (?) up until here 01:28:704 -
    
    i don't need a scream sound here. it's fine
    
27. 01:32:939 - i think you should add a note here, since it follows up the rest of the beats and it would be more consistent
    
    there a melody sound i followed, and no kick sound here.
    
28. 01:40:351 - is there a way to switch the jacks? it's unbalancing so i think it could be better to swap cols around
    
    changed to more easier gameplay
    
29. 02:01:527 (121527|5,121527|6,121616|6,121616|5,121704|5,121704|6,121792|6,121792|5,121880|5,121880|6,121969|6,121969|5,122057|5,122057|6,122145|6,122145|5) - Is there anyway this could be placed on the index+middle of either hands? atleast it would be better to hit than jacking with your weak finger
    
    there's no option to change, sorry
    
30. 02:15:116 - there shouldn't be a jack here since it's not following the original jack beat, hence makes it not following anything so i suggest moving these two notes
    
    removed last jack note
    

enjoyed modding this, take care when this gets qualified again

Another Lie wrote:

just a little suggestion from me (minor things or more like opinion maybe)

[Insane]

01:57:866 (117866|5,117910|4,117954|3,117998|2,118042|1,118307|5,118351|4,118395|3,118439|2,118483|1) - why not make it 1 step to the right? People at above normal rank (around #4000 - #2000) usually panicked when the pattern changed slightly.

alright.

02:19:175 (139175|4,139219|5,139263|1,139307|2,139351|4,139395|5,139439|1,139483|2,139527|4,139572|5,139616|1,139660|2,139704|4,139748|5,139792|1,139836|2,139880|4) - maybe you could make them like this? Why do i think that?

maybe im late to check?? http://puu.sh/tsI3c/0492c8010a.jpg

The balance of these note 02:19:880 (139880|4,139880|5) - if you're going to use current pattern. Those note in the right column are

i prefer to remain the current column, but hey i feel like this LN end is not the same as the other diffs. i'll fix this
i cant understand your point number 2 and 3 cuz i need your past screenshot. feel free to send it again

Maybe that's all i can suggest. Feel free to reject, also reply it. I will look forward for your reply - thanks

ArcherLove wrote:

hi nanatsu long time no see pls make many sv taiko map
hi maiz94y (when will check my map? already like 1 yr lolol jk)
hi expew i did some suggestion on the hardest diff and the diff that's not too hard but hard diff, mind to look?


I will only focus in playability and visualization (and bit PR) so this is all me suggesting a very suggestive suggestion.
[insane]

00:03:822 (3822|3,3998|3) - better at 5 for visualization?

the pitch looks good current one
00:09:469 (9469|3,9645|2) - ctrl+j?

looks good.
00:14:057 (14057|0,14057|2) - move to 3-5? (different pitch + not-so-bad playability)
00:19:704 (19704|6,19704|4) - to 5-3?
01:53:939 (113939|1) - move to 5?
01:54:998 (114998|2,115175|3,115351|2) - http://puu.sh/tpSXe/9b95cb6fad.jpg
01:55:880 (115880|2,116057|3) - ctrl+j ?

fixed all slight pattern weird
02:05:057 (125057|1,125233|0,125410|1) - swap collumn|?

doesn't need to swap, i rearrange here.

[the diff that got so many dislike and controversion but i like it anyway but well it's hard BUT I STILL LIKE IT]

00:03:822 (3822|2,3998|2) - move to 4?

nope better remain current one.

00:06:469 (6469|0) - move to 7 instead? because 00:06:469 (6469|3,6645|2,6822|1,6822|4,6998|3,7175|2,7175|5) -

I don't think so, if you combine with all. im sure it suitable.

00:37:351 (37351|5,37527|4,37704|3,37880|4,38057|3) - http://puu.sh/tpUbv/e8e50e074e.jpg ?

already change new pattern here. please check new update

00:42:116 (42116|5,42116|2,42292|2,42292|5) - I think it's different sound how about move 00:42:292 (42292|5,42292|2) - 1 coll to the left? (yes, jack with 00:42:469 (42469|4) - not bad I think)

make sense, move left col to make different sound.

00:43:704 (43704|3,43792|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUfw/b7092eb974.jpg (better visualization + playability for mee but idk)

i already change this part, please check new update

why 01:22:351 (82351|6,82351|0,83057|0,83057|6) - 2 note but 01:22:704 (82704|4) - only 1? the LN have all 1 LN, add at 1? not bad playability I think?

i nerfed this part , please update and recheck again.

01:33:027 (93027|5,93027|1,93116|4,93116|2,93204|1,93204|5,93292|6) - http://puu.sh/tpUrY/24ba049996.jpg ? if not want jack the 7th note go to 1?
01:35:233 (95233|6,95233|2) - change to LN 1/2? (to the white line, is this 1/2 LN? or 1/4? zzzz ajee said 1/2)

looks horrible hahaha

wow u open

02:32:939 (152939|6,152939|4,153027|6,153027|4,153116|6,153116|4,153204|6,153204|4,153292|6,153292|4,153380|6,153380|4,153469|4,153469|6,153557|4,153557|6,153645|6,153645|4,153733|6,153733|4,153822|6,153822|4,153910|4,153910|6,153998|4,153998|6,154086|6,154086|4,154175|6,154175|4,154263|6,154263|4,154351|6,154351|4,154439|6,154439|4,154527|6,154527|4,154616|4,154616|6,154704|4,154704|6,154792|6,154792|4,154880|6,154880|4,154969|6,154969|4) -

^^^ MACHINE GUN ^^^ *pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew**pew*

have

SOME IJIMA YUN AND MY REACTION WHEN PLAY DIS MAP

good luck mantan tembakan pesawat pew

Raymond wrote:

quick mod

Raymond wrote:

quick

ExPew wrote:

i just want tell you guys to consider these things:
1) criticism =/= you are forced to follow/change as instructed.
2) if you feel uncomfortable, you have the freedom to create your own map without anyone hating about it. this is where the variation and diversity exist.
3) i have to repeat this again since you are clearly you missing the point. if they were that serious in disqus, they should have posted their thoughts in the thread itself to make it more constructive and relevant. contribute to the map if you need to justify your reason. make sure to understand the point at (1) above too.
4) those who said about not being skilled enough to play the chart, congratulations for showing your prejudice to the public.
5) to satisfy all players is not an easy task. keep in mind different people has different taste. you know how this works.

juankristal wrote:

And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.

YaHao wrote:

So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?

He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.

ExPew wrote:

updated.

the jack ending part was reverted like old qualified version.

YaHao wrote:

Be able to play surely will help you a lot on judging a map, but that's not everything. Of course, "just theory" is not gonna stand either.

Let's quit arguing whether a BN can or not judge this map, its pointless and i dont think this can do any help to the map itself, plus i can find many examples of BN icon a map which is beyond his playing skill. http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5771261

Less talking, some actual work (like a proper mod) to improve the map will be helpful, or even quote the QAT mod if not agree with pew's reply to them, cause i dont see any of you two did that.

YaHao wrote:

juankristal wrote:

And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.

So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?

He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.

richardfeder wrote:

...did you pop this bubble on a bn's point of view with specific reasons regarding any technical issues presented in the mapset, or did you just pop it because you don't like Expew's attitude and the fact that he declined mods with legit justification? I do believe that, despite mapper's attitude is a huge factor in the ranking process, we do not veto a map just because its owner is an asshole(and Expew is not an asshole, nor is he trying to be arrogant and shit at people). Modders are here to express their opinions and offer helps to the map, but here to not change one's attitude.

juankristal wrote:

I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked.

richardfeder wrote:

The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.

Kawawa wrote:

Players also already playing similar tempo with this(recently DT patch)
If I compared with something.
https://puu.sh/va1ae/5e05342095.jpg
LEFT :: C18H27NO3(extend) 4K DT burst one(310 BPM)
RIGHT :: Beethoven will be calculated as 340 BPM(because It used only one hand)

maybe it can be ridiculous that I brought 4K and DT.
nevertheless It shows the player can play. how much player can passed it?

Halogen- wrote:

The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.

Halogen- wrote:

As Kamikaze said: you cannot judge a map purely on theoretical ability. There are playability standards that should be adhered to, and the highest difficulty on this map is far from it. When you're going out of your way to get a bubble on this map, you are acknowledging that you have intent to expose this file to players, and you can't just insert something that you want because it "feels right." A 25-note 1/4 chord jack at 170 BPM is simply not acceptable under any constraint: I don't care in this particular case that it is an atonal repetition, and I wouldn't care if it was a repeated piano chord or something that would "theoretically merit" that kind of patterning: you wouldn't do it in any case because it's largely unplayable and is a huge difficulty spike with comparison to the rest of the map.

I think the jack pattern definitely does not go over the playability standards, if it actually exists. You said that the highest difficulty is far from it, and I do agree with you that indeed it is if one tries to fc it. The "playable" you stated above is clearly too much. It is absolutely doable, but hardto be executed perfectly. I am not going to pretend that many people can actually handle it, but I am pretty sure that at the same time, there are quite a few pro who believe they can do it and are willing to repeated challenge that pattern to proof their skills.

The purpose of beatmap modding is to get the map to the highest quality out of the beatmap. Those who are modding don't have to change one's attitude in most cases — however, when you have players who absolutely dislike the map, and various impartial people saying that the structure is basically unplayable/unenjoyable, that should be an immediate red flag that something like this is an issue. While juankristal might not have been the best at making his point by adding a bit of a tactless statement about the song/map, the point is that this map presents a serious issue for another reason as well:

I absolutely have no idea about the immediate red flag part. Why is it a "NO" just because, let's say 60% of the people(if you do go over the thread you will notice that 60% is way more than a conservative calculation) hate it? You should be aware of the fact that people out there are promoting this map with careful thoughts.

juankristal wrote:

I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked.

The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.

What are you afraid of? The danger of snowfall always exists, and it is not going to be an excuse for us to stop here and with our limited mapping styles stays unchanged for ages. Indeed jack pattern itself is not a new technique, but trying to use long jack pattern and corporate it with the rest of the map is definitely something we have not tried in the past. It opens up the discussion if patterns like this are actually usable in certain cases and I do not think it is wise to shut this down just because many people can't play this pattern at all.

We are not in the stage of snowfall. We have not even experienced a single snow due to the fact that how cautious we are. I 100% understand the fear you and Juan harbor, but I also have confidence that, even if Expew ranked his map and it failed the community miserably and someone tries the same thing later, instead of saying "well, Expew managed to get his shit ranked so I guess I should be able to do that too", our mappers, BNs and QATs will say "hey did you see those salty comments and replays on the scoreboard? Don't try that and we won't rank map like that anymore".

richardfeder wrote:

The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.

I think you're disregarding the fact that, if I'm interpreting the context correctly within the course of the thread and the post that ExPew made: he nerfed the ending with respect to criticisms provided, only to decide to put it back right at the end of the map's modding cycle (basically post Kuo's bubble). And the whole concept of this map not violating any written rules of the RC is a stupid excuse, let's drop that right at the door — it's a pathetic excuse of a shield for the purpose of trying to let something that has been established as subjectively incorrect and poorly done by both mappers and players (polarization in rankings). I've yet to see anyone that the difficulty aims to target, who is impartial to the situation, react positively about the structure of this map. In fact, I personally was tipped off about this map's infamy for the same reason that this map was disqualified, and alone speaks volumes. This is not something that should pass.

I am not trying to say that he does not violate any written laws so he is safe. Sorry for not saying my thoughts in a clean, understandable way.

Please allow me to rephrase what I tended to say in my previous post. We have so little rules which gives us the maximum potential to express our interpretation freely, and as long as it is justified reasonably, it should not be easily denied. Same, if you are going to say no, you have to voice your concern with details. A undefined idea "Unplayable"(where's the boundary? No no can fc = unplayable? 70% players can't catch 70% of the notes in the jack part = unplayable? Or no one can actually pass it is a true "unplayable"?) sounds so rude and arrogant compares to how much efforts modders, BNs who support this map with their reasons stated.

I was thinking about Juan saying Expew did not fix any "QAT's concern" when I typed my previous post. All I wanted to say before is that Expew did not violate and written rules and QAT did not disqualified the map, saying that "you must change this part" ect.. There's no such "QAT's concern". They DQ-ed for more discussions so that we all can sit down and talk about this before everything is settled too quickly.


A good mapper knows how to express the music properly, while still making it approachable for the players who want to play it. This is not approachable under any circumstance. If my memory serves me correctly, even jakads, who is #1 in the game statistically at the moment, a player that has spent time crushing all varieties of maps in the game, was not able to properly play the ending of your not even 6* map.

There's no guarantee that if you S-ranked all 5* maps then when you download the next 5* maps you are going to pass it. It is highly likely that you can handle it well, but sometimes not. As you know Tom's algorithm has been helping us a ton, but it is also true that the star rating system we have right now still cannot handle certain patterns for instances heavy LNs and jacks. You know that this is actually not 6* at all.

I am still note sure what do you mean by saying properly. I am not, and I guess no one, maybe including himself, is expecting jakads or someone else crushes that part easily. Are you expecting him to perform "properly"?

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

This will never had a stop.

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

It's not impossible to play, someone does FC'ed it. jakads himself is an example, in early stage of first qualified I watched his gameplay.
The map supposed to be challenge. I can't understand why everyone forced ExPew to do what he don't want to, he explained many times, he do progress quite a lot already, taking critisms like you've asked but yet someone doesn't new ending so he reverted it.
And you're saying I can't judge the map? So my mod and testplay for the map is meaningless? Judge doesn't mean you can only do that by gameplay, a few gameplay would help to check the comfortability but playability isn't the only way to judge can you just understand what I'm saying? It's rude and my thought you guys mean that I go blindly nominated this mapset for no reasons.

And again, why? ExPew even give you guys 3 months of period, after DQ-ed on January, everything calmed down and we thought you are COMPLETELY fine with it, now continue with a group of "community" after juankristal showed up?

And no hate, did you ever mod a 7K map before, juankristal? Or just popped the bubble because of "community voice"?
You can hate this map/song, but that doesn't mean ALL players hate it, ALL mappers hate it, I repeat, ALL, not a group of 20 people with haters. It's not neccessary to force other to do something they don't like, frame-work job is no good.
We care what you said, we read what you wrotr, we listen and understand what you're trying to say, but going on, we don't want to neccessary follow what you said if we have a good reason to do that, or you guys didn't care what we said and our effort putted on here, or just watch the result and spoil it all?
17VA: Know what you're saying, did you even look to the thread itself?

So, ExPew changed then stop please, it's better for you to pass over lower tier difficulities than just focus on one last diff to understand how the map was going on, it's just like you watching the end of a new movie.

Thanks. I stop here, I'm sorry if I'm salty.

SPOILER

I belive Glorious Crown got the same treats, many people said they will mod it but it been 2 weeks since last DQ and Interlude-and Tifyron and Tode are 3 people only came back

ExPew rude, deleting the post saying that I should rebubble

juankristal wrote:

And last, any BN can pop any bubble at any time before something is qualified. The BN who got his bubble popped can icon the set again until both parts find an agreement. I am trying to go with some pattern derivations of what ExPew has right now to try and reflect how is it achieved right now in at least a better way (to not be 100% the guy who says, this is bad, fix k bye) tho I will consult some high end players first before anything.

I think the ending could look a bit more symetric or pleasing but I might just be wrong and it could be fine as it is. Anyways, I will try to get that veredict done for tonight.

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

juankristal wrote:

And last, any BN can pop any bubble at any time before something is qualified. The BN who got his bubble popped can icon the set again until both parts find an agreement. I am trying to go with some pattern derivations of what ExPew has right now to try and reflect how is it achieved right now in at least a better way (to not be 100% the guy who says, this is bad, fix k bye) tho I will consult some high end players first before anything.

I think the ending could look a bit more symetric or pleasing but I might just be wrong and it could be fine as it is. Anyways, I will try to get that veredict done for tonight.

Dear juankristal,
By what you said, you can't unsure something by yourself even, that make me rethink that you pop the bubble just because you feel that map is not ready and everyone (your community voices) think like you, but not because you have a special details on it: "why and should not why?"

So, please define bad? What is bad to you in the ending?

juankristal wrote:

So this is what I find out to be what I would end up doing, ExPew, I would like your thoughts on this and potentially talk about it to get into a middle point with it and both be okey.

Infection diff:

02:33:292 -

The way I drafted this is in a way where it is symetrical-ish I guess. You can also do some mixing and instead of making it full like that it could be [67][23][56] etc (all of them being 2 note jacks ofc). I think it would be more playable overall.

based on pic, people can fc with ease by simply spam with 3 finger ( no need to read the note column changes ) and easier than Insane diff jack.
referring to the right finger jack i made last time, due to the complaint where it caused a spike on the right and a bit too long, i arranged it with 2 fingers left and right together for better playability which some player has difficulty of a weak right spot for the jack

This is another example of the usage, a bit more challlenging and harder:

But then again we reach another issue which would be the other long jacks:

continuous jack on space is not recommend for me because we don't know player will play it by using left or right thumb since it's a long jack on this part.

02:25:527 - 02:14:233 - this ones being the most significants. So here it would happen the thing I mentioned earlier but in the opposite way. How to fix this well, you always have the option of rotating this into 2 sets of jacks instead only one but I imagine you want to keep them so, you could try and use the 4th column a bit in the ending to balance that gap out a little bit. In my honest opinion, I would change the remaining jacks that I marked into 2 bllocks of jacks or maybe even like the ending I proposed splitting them into 2 note jacks.

i have to refuse. im following the instrument pitch and this section is not for extensive long jack. if you think there is a less column usage, the music already fit it well with the current note.]

Tell me what you think about them so we decide what to do after all.

For the insane difficulty however I believe that would create a gap between both endings so you probably want to change that ending a little bit too. Keeping it as a double trill until 02:34:351 - that part should be good enough but I guess you could draft something else like having sudden 2 note jacks instead. Just make it easier than the proposed ending of the hardest diff and avoid the 4note jack usage for spread reasons. In any case, I am up for debating this further and reach conclusions that satisfies both of us.

considering to nerf the jack due to slight gap on Hard diff (single note stream without any jack). this might look better

Waiting for your answer then.

juankristal wrote:

So, the insane part looks cool so let leave that as resolved already.

For the ending, I guess your arguments are fair. I understasnd your point of FC with ease by spamming and I find it fair enough to let it as it is.

Although, I think that if you ended up changing that ending you should stay consistent with the rest, I know the change hurts and it might be against your ideals, but hey, you can keep up the difficulty level of the ending into the other parts too.

So lets mark all the long jacks that are questionable:

02:07:880 (127880|6,127880|4,127969|6,127969|4,128057|4,128057|6,128145|4,128145|6) - Just doing a ctrl+h here to split the 8 note jack into 2 different 4 blocks should be good enough for players to still take it as a challenge yet not be completely out of place compared to the rest of the chart.

02:14:233 - For this section, I think using blocks of 2 jacks each would be the best idea to go. Think it this way, if the ending is supposed to be the harder part of the map then this should have somewhat of an easier pattering and having an extended lenght of 2 jack blocks is probably a good setup for the harder ending. Other options are also viable such as separating it into 3 blocks of 4 jacks or doing something like the ending but in an easier scale.

02:25:527 - Same thing should apply here, in fact, if you want to make the players have to deal with a challenge you could have something a bit different or some sort of deviation of the previous suggestion/ending since at the end of the day, if all the patterns work the same "way" as in, they have the same strucutre, it would target just a specific term of playstyle but you can very well test it in different ways avoiding pattern repetition if that makes sense.


This would also sorta fix the gap between insane and infection difficulties which were kinda huge even before the first change ever.

when did I say I was going to rebubble this mfw, anyways, dont worry about that

Soul Evans wrote:

Yeah you pretty much made it worse man

There is alot of ways to do the ending better than what you did but oh well.
i'd like your point modding later cause i rejected juankristal's point ending part cause 'too easy' with simply spam

The fact this is now underrated also makes me kinda sad,
it doesn't matter to me. (SR is a crap and easy to abuse)

especially since the jacks for some sections aren't consistent at all with the ending, and you raised HP now i think?
im already out of idea pattern and try to avoid use 'space' column note, definitely i would reject it, HP? yes for anti-spam

anyways, i'd rather fail the old version with an S than playing this new one, not saying the old one was perfect and all, but you had done it in a way that's not as better as the old one, which is why i'm gonna take some time modding this later or talk to you about it and what not.
older version was easier to fc than latest you need to reading skill to jack'em perfectly. let's hear your modding later.

-Kamikaze- wrote:

star rating is destryoing this game, no joke lmao
people only care about it nowadays, and that's sad

I support the HP raise as well, just 10 pesos this time