Thanks for mod, if you want to mod the other diffs or discuss this further let me know.Shiirn wrote:
Hi Natsu!
I know you hate me and will be sorely tempted to just deny this offhand because you probably think I'm just being a dick, but I feel like there is some genuine improvement that can and should be made to this map. It has piles of potential and I love Halcyon a lot, so I want it to be the best map it can be before actually getting ranked. You only get one shot, after all. I don't hate you, I just delete you, because you was being immature with me at modhelp and disrespectful in private chats, but I don't have any problem with you, just I think you could say sorry atleast.
Your bordercolor seems pointless and useless. Care to explain why it's even there? It fit the BG, isn't that noticeable, but kinda lol
I'm skipping the incredibly badly clipped hitsounds that I'll let someone else go over. I'm no hitsound expert so I'll let someone else take care of that, so let's just go directly over the mapping itself because it appears nobody has actually tried to mod this map to improve it within your own mapping concepts, they just went over it for obvious mistakes and that's it. That's lazy as balls and I don't like it, so here I am. this will be improved, that's why I requested the DQ and btw I totally disagree, their mods help me alot more than yours, the NC based mod isn't superior as the patterns I reworked from the previous ones.
also, keysounding means you can't actually use snares or kicks or claps or finishes or whistles or other hitsound emphasis which imo is far more vital to player enjoyment than pianos ringing in their ears. Please don't use the "I can't be assed to fix it" excuse when it's something that you hate me for. I have to totally disagree with you here, I asked players to play this map with the keysounds and no one had problems even one fc it at the first try with 98%, also take in consideration that 95% of players will off map hitsounds as they do with any map, anyways I already have profs of they don't affecting the gameplay and I actually love them as other people also do, ofc I'll improve them, but I won't remove the keysoundsDeity
- 00:37:940 (2) - Was nobody willing to tell you this one looks bad? Clean it up with a couple more grey nodes, that first curve is warped. Given the smooth curving of the rest of the section, you might want that last linear node to be smoothed out as well. I love my slider sorry, is just a design thing you are free to dislike it, but that don't make it bad.
- 00:40:107 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1) - The emphasis here is incorrect. The strong wavering begins on 3. The proper setup would be 12,12,12,1. Sets of three are not in line with the pitch and tones used. I just removed the NC 00:40:583 (4) - , I love how the pattern play and doing 1 - 2 combos in a triangle pattern will be weird AF
- 00:42:647 (1,2) - These... are not only borderline burai, but they're incredibly out of place both in the fact that the first curve is squished as hell and the straight line feels really out of place with the wavering of the violin. Please, please make these curvy sliders to fit with the violin. Shit works so good. Isn't really that bad, but I made something better
- 00:47:017 - I understand if you want to skip these beats, but I feel like they're important enough to mention. Since you mapped it 00:48:587 (3) - here, you should be consistent with it. Follow the background thumps or don't, don't just do the loudest one. was like that, but it got changed from some mod and I actually prefer it, since it follow the continue sound better, I mapped the loudest one, because is really audible when you playing not like the before one
- 00:54:713 (2) - Don't pussy out by making the piano hit at the end here the slider ending. You've mapped every hit here, don't pussy out and skip this one just because it's slightly off the normal snapping. Players won't fuck up on it. Believe me. I don't believe you, because I mapped this as a circle before and almost every previous mod pointed it out, I also asked angelism for a testplay and he got a 50 hit there, that's enough to confirm me that's better to just keep the slider, playability is important
- 01:05:304 (2,2) - I really feel like these sliders detract from the power of the long violin holds of 01:04:515 (1) - and 01:06:167 (1) - . This is one of those "It's up to you" choices, but you focused really hard on the violin and piano for this section, it's a bit weird to have sliderstarts on the weak background drum. yeah I don't really want to keep this, but I'm forced to keep it, if you notice I can't snap the tails due to the timing change sadly
- 01:09:923 (1,2) - I'm only going to mention this once, but it applies to every single chorus and every single repeat of this measure: Why the hell are you skipping the beat on 01:10:080 - ??????? It's 75% of what makes Halcyon such a powerful piece of music. It kicks off the offbeat pattern right at the start of the measure and smacks the listener in the face with it. Skipping it makes the entire measure just this weak version of itself. This repeats every 8 beats so I'm sure you did it on purpose and I'm sure you'll call it "your style" but believe me when I say you're missing out on the strongest possible emphasis you can put in this map by skipping these. first to all how ¨style¨ can be a valid argument for rhythm o.o, my argument is that the extended slider fit better the song, there are hold sounds and if you notice this is the ¨feeling¨ that I add to every kiai, is just my representation of the song, but I don't think that beat is really important
- 01:14:792 (1,2,3,4,5) - I disagree with your use of a stream here but the drums are faintly there on 1,3,4 and 5 so i suppose you can justify it. if there was an important sound in the middle of the stream I'd agree with you, but there is none and the stream is in the music.
- 01:16:049 (1,2,3,4,5) - This has the same issue as ^that but I feel like your piano keysounding is directly conflicting with the mapping style you're trying to push on this track. The piano sounds are so loud and overwhelming, but you're trying to utilize much weaker and softer drum lines to provide a more complicated rhythm. This is very counter-productive, given that Halcyon as a whole is a piece of music that relies on its violins, piano, and synth, not its drums, to evoke emotions. that's your opinion and isn't an incorrect one, but a valid one, but also my representation of the song is a valid one, there is not only one way, but multiple ones, if not then let's just make an auto map program
- 01:28:771 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - I am going to call this the "cool stream" because I like it alot due to how it properly emphasizes the 123412341234 musical patterns in the music. When, in the future of this mod, I reference "The cool stream", I'm not saying to use streamjumps, but to properly emphasize the varying pitch and tone in that section like this stream does here.
That said, I don't know why you only ever use jumpstreams here. Seems like too much of a vast difference in difficulty between "Normal streams" and "chorus-ending streams". Jumpstreams are really damn hard, you know. Even just spacing them different but overlapping would make them way more fair. the last part in the chorus is in my opinion the more representative part to introduce this kind of patterns, yes they are hard to play, but not for the ones that can play the map properly, I got multiple test and no one fails to read/play them- 01:36:310 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - This stream fails to live up to the Cool Stream because the music very clearly does four repeats of 1234, but this stream has one circle for the first 12345678, while the second has 5678 properly curving but no new combo to go along with it. Basically, it's inconsistent with itself. Either you emphasize each individual set of four beats, or you emphasize none of them. You can't just do the last one in the set of four. you are actually wrong, did you play this part? there are 4 moments in this stream, first one is going up 01:36:310 (1) - , second is going down 01:36:626 (5) - , third 01:36:938 (1) - going up again and fourth 01:37:253 (5) - going down, the problem, shiirn is that you don't play the map, so you can't feel these changes happening, they aren't bigger changes, but they are there, I made the NCs going in groups of 4 tho
- 01:37:881 (3,2) - These aren't in a straight line like 01:37:881 (3,1) - are, but.... this is tiny shit. fixed
- 01:39:452 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This is fine because it changes on 5, but you need to actually be consistent with whether you new combo them or not. New combos are more than just for measure resets. this isn't 100% true, but I follow your previous suggestions so this 01:39:766 (5) - have NC now
- 01:44:478 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This looks familiar :thinking: fixed too
- 01:46:363 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Again, part of what makes halcyon powerful is its usage of piano pitch. This is another example of a set of four fours listed as two eights. That's not necessarily bad, but it's inconsistent. I made the NCs every 4 beats, but about the movements the stream follows the same as 01:36:310 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - you can't notice at looking at editor, but at playing it
- 01:50:447 (2) - Inconsistent with 01:40:394 (1) - , 01:30:342 (1) - , etc needs new combo or remove new combo from the others. Either way, be consistent. I prefer the 1,1, new combo setup, myself. fixed
- 01:51:389 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - here is where we get into the REALLY fancy shit that truly makes Halcyon, Halcyon. These notes are a set of four 3's and a 4! e,g, it's 123,123,123,123,1234. This is one of Xi's favorite "fuck you" rolls. Now, these are hard as fuck to emphasize so I don't blame you for stepping out and giving up. But new combos and slight spacing changes could work, if you want to make your map special? fixed
- 01:59:242 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - See you actually have spacing changes on the sets of 4 changes here. Good.
- 02:00:499 (2) - Inconsistent with 01:40:394 (1) - , needs new combo or remove new combo from the others. Either way, be consistent. I prefer the 1,1, new combo setup, myself. etc etc. Last time I'll mention these. Like Irre says, you should only need to mention it once and you'll magically fix every other one right? xD ye
- 02:12:750 (1,2,3,4) - Any reason you change from counterclockwise to clockwise at 2->3? Then you just go into weird back-and-forth-ish patterns. If you did this on-beat or something it'd be okay, but as-is just seems weird. Heck, I remember you getting on my ass about this on felys. this was a suggestion from some players, and personally I believe them, since they always test my maps
- 02:14:635 (1,2,3) - This feels like you're intentionally skipping the beat on 02:14:871 - . Surely you could use a 1/2 slider and a circle on 02:14:871 - to properly capture every slap there, maybe? I don't think it'd make the section too busy, it's just another alternate button hit amongst a singletap section, which'd fit for a specially different measure. will be to dense and I actually prefer my current way for design and rhythm
- 02:18:091 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - This is just another one of those "It's three sets of four but you only new comboed the first set and only had a direction change on the first set" things. I'm pointing out every one of these because Halcyon can get fairly complex and some of these are legitimately 123412345678 or something similar to that, and given this map as evidence, you can't really tell so I'm helping you out. fixed
- 02:19:661 (1,2,3) - This is just so weird and out of place given your obsession with keeping things onbeat and neat. This bluetick slider has no polarization into it and reads really badly, especially when you can satisfiably replace 02:19:897 (2,3) - with circle-1/4slider-1/4slider the one that I have wrong is 02:20:054 (3) - , if you notice there are 3 important beats here, 02:19:661 - 02:19:897 - 02:20:132 -
- 02:21:860 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1) - Wait, maybe you areable to tell when the music uses different patterns? But this is one of many! you did it right here, do it right everywhere else! T_T
- 02:30:813 (2,3) - lemme just say i can see what you did here and while i personally feel that the strength of 02:30:970 - in the musical pattern warrants a click, i can understand you forgoing that in favor of the 3-3 pattern. But mostly just in this case. I really think my current way is better, is easier to play and still follows the music close enough, seems you don't care much about the playability, but I really do :l
- Xi starts copy+pasting like crazy and so do you, so there'll be more space between commentary from now on.
- 03:02:070 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6) - Here's where your emphasis via new combos goes completely bonkers. Xi's just doing his standard 123412341234 shit dude, don't put new combos on red ticks here (see next line). Either do 1234,1234, or 12345678. Don't do this 10 and 6 and other stuff. there is also a rhythm going in the red ticks if you didn't notice, but I change this, since the white line is stronger tho
- 03:04:269 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6) - It's funny to say this righta fter saying "don't put new combos on red ticks" because here xi actually starts his sets of four on 03:04:426 - , which means the red ticks are the proper new combo spots. Why is this? Because 03:04:347 - doesn't actually have a beat. Also because Xi is nuts. fixed
- 03:07:881 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - I don't think i've ever seen a more blatant "fill empty space with a stream" example in my life. One of the few times in the map where the drums are actually prominent and you can map them to fill the piano space? Nope, better chuck a weirdo 13-note stream there. there is a stream in the music and I think it fit really well, again is my interpretation of the song in my map and not yours
- 03:09:766 (1,2,3,4,5) - ^except 1/4 sliders same as above
- 03:12:750 (1,2,3) - Just my opinion but a 3/4 slider with a bit of a hop to the note would do way better expressing the woosh noise than... three 1/2 circles. nope, there are 3 strong sounds in the music, if any I'd make a 1/2 repeat slider, but I think the 3 hits fit perfectly fine
- 03:14:320 (5) - pretty violin, ugly slider. I made a simple curvy slider
- hey yo ima take a break from the criticism and just let you know that i really really really do like how you did the patterning for the slow bit from here on out. top shelf man just wish the sliders were a bit less angular and harsh for such a pretty, gentle section.
- 03:27:799 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1) - Just like before, this is 12,12,12,1. But your patterning already does this with back and forths, so a new combo change is all u really needI just removed the NCs, as I did in the previous one, to keep consistency
- 03:47:843 - pretty sure the harp is around here. Weirdo shit tho. yeah, but we are lucky that there is a sound at the white tick, since that's more intuitive to play and a player wouldn't even notice it while playing
- 03:51:953 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This curve is really harsh and weird despite how clean the rest of them are. I improved it a bit
- 03:54:466 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Now here's the problem, see. I've always called these "the rain sections" in my head because the original video has a rainstorm over these 1/2 sections. The first one doesnt have this 1,2,12,12,1,21,2,12,12, stuff. The first one has a nice set of patterns that, while at one time weirdly changing rotation, fit the music pattern-wise. This is just a bunch of 1,2 jumps with no real pattern. It has a rotation, but that's just boring. It's beneath you, and it's insulting to the music, to use such a plain and uninventive way to map this 1/2 section. the one insulting the music and my map calling this part bored is you, if you actually play it, you will notice is not
- 04:05:775 (1,2,3,4) - This is the problem with overmapping streams to fill dead space. You lead into a 123123 section with a 1234 and it just feels so weird, especially when you hit 04:06:795 (1,2) - because the strongest final set of three's final strong beat is a slider ending. It could not be more plain that the hitsounding was done independently of the mapping than right here, because no sane mapper would have the strongest hitsound on the only beat in the entire measure where there isn't a click. fixed
- That said, this stream section is done much better than the early ones. Evidence that a mapper can get better at mapping a song simply over the time it takes him to map it?
- 04:40:958 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - neat
- 04:49:754 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6) - See 03:04:269 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6) - . Keysounding or not, it comes off as weird fixed
- 04:53:367 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - another silly filler ew how is a filler when it is in the music
- 05:00:121 (1) - 50% sure this is unrankable as it is not clear which direction it goes in. And it's impossible to tell because it bends on the same point, and doesn't flow into the circle evenly to hint that thats how it goes. I for one thought that because it was symmetrical it'd "bounce" off the middle. Also, for nazi, the circle is off. Is not unrankable I used it in other map when the rules were more strict, any player that can play this map won't have any problem reading this, the patch is logical and even if you do the silly mistake of going the other sider the slider leniency will allow you to keep the track of it, btw I'm not saying is rankable because was used in other map, but because no one failed to read it there.
Let me say that I like this map, and I really want a good halcyon in ranked. But that's just it; I want a good halcyon that fits and follows its own rules. This map is inconsistent and has many small errors that detract from it. Meme me all you want but you know that this map wasn't meticulously gone over as much as it should have been.
If this map gets any more attention, I'll be happy to come back and go over the other two difficulties. I spent a decent chunk of time on Deity and if it's just going to get brushed aside I don't want to have wasted my time on the other difficulties.
@Lasse I'll give u a proper reply later
@Kroytz I like your hitsound suggestions and we will give u a proper reply later, but I won't remove the keysounds, since Monstrata isn't the only one who love the hitsound, you don't have idea on how much pms I got about them being nice, so sorry about that.
If someone have more feedback feel free to post it