You lost 2 of the 3? Damn.EphemeralFetish wrote:
Still need to find 2 replacement BN's
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UNDEAD CORPORATION - Bloodthirsty Nightmare Lul...
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Topic Starter
Spaghetti didnt really like the map but was just helping out cause I couldnt find anyone. Kagetsu wants to avoid drama.Cryptic wrote:
You lost 2 of the 3? Damn.EphemeralFetish wrote:
Still need to find 2 replacement BN's
Drama in circle clicking game. LUL LUL LULEphemeralFetish wrote:
... avoid drama.
That's sad but.
Nobody, and i said, NOBODY in this community is able to judge a map like this.
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
I didn't say this map is bad, but ranking this map doesn't make sense for now, since nobody can't judge it.
Nobody, and i said, NOBODY in this community is able to judge a map like this.
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
I didn't say this map is bad, but ranking this map doesn't make sense for now, since nobody can't judge it.
Topic Starter
I think its easy to judge. You just need to go about it differently. Rather than looking at the map as a whole you can just break everything down into small parts and judge those. Even looking at each combo. Much easier to judge it that way, and all long as each small section works and fits into the next then the map as a whole is fine.Cherry Blossom wrote:
That's sad but.
Nobody, and i said, NOBODY in this community is able to judge a map like this.
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
I didn't say this map is bad, but ranking this map doesn't make sense for now, since nobody can't judge it.
a. its passableCherry Blossom wrote:
That's sad but.
Nobody, and i said, NOBODY in this community is able to judge a map like this.
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
I didn't say this map is bad, but ranking this map doesn't make sense for now, since nobody can't judge it.
b. its not alien
c. its not even CLOSE to being alien
d. its not even like the map has difficult to understand concepts
e. its not alien
f. its STILL not alien
if you would like to clarify exactly what is so unjudgable about the map as to warrant it as unrankable, please do share
edit: mashallah
@Weber
Okay then.
Find me someone in this community that is able to play this map properly and pass, and which has also enough modding skills, and not "please change this pattern" without giving a good reason, and without understanding the whole mechanic of the map.
And i didn't say this map looks like Alien, there is a huge difference between them.
Monstrata wanted to create another concept behind his map by making it intentionally ugly in order to make it "fit better" the song. While EphemeralFetish's map has a "simple concept" but looks as difficult as Alien.
@EphemeralFetish
And it's a bad idea to take patterns one by one. A map is made by its global structure, and judging patterns one by one doesn't make sense, because you ignore the context around it. And the context must not be forgotten.
Charles explained something similar in this video (around 2mins), please look at it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRW8EGbdfLA
Okay then.
Find me someone in this community that is able to play this map properly and pass, and which has also enough modding skills, and not "please change this pattern" without giving a good reason, and without understanding the whole mechanic of the map.
And i didn't say this map looks like Alien, there is a huge difference between them.
Monstrata wanted to create another concept behind his map by making it intentionally ugly in order to make it "fit better" the song. While EphemeralFetish's map has a "simple concept" but looks as difficult as Alien.
@EphemeralFetish
And it's a bad idea to take patterns one by one. A map is made by its global structure, and judging patterns one by one doesn't make sense, because you ignore the context around it. And the context must not be forgotten.
Charles explained something similar in this video (around 2mins), please look at it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRW8EGbdfLA
Topic Starter
I was just saying that while it may be difficult to judge a map as a whole, you can certainly judge each concept/pattern/structure etc etc and see that it works.
Cherry Blossom wrote:
Find me someone in this community that is able to play this map properly and pass
Cherry Blossom wrote:
and which has also enough modding skills
You don't need to be good at this game to have an in-depth understanding at how mapping works.
Cherry Blossom wrote:
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
Explain why you need to both be able to play the map as well as have extensive mapping and modding knowledge when instead, as an experienced mapper, you COULD get the opinion of someone talented at the game who can play it, then through your own knowledge and experienced judgement, determine whether the map is good or not.Cherry Blossom wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
Because your train of thought where, just because we don't have a player that's both extremely proficient at both playing the game as well as mapping/modding it somehow gates us from ranking these kind of maps, just doesn't make sense imo.
what about Doomsday, jesse1412 and XII? they all have experience on this kinds of maps i think (at least on terms of playing it)
Topic Starter
At the end of the day none of this matters. Got a couple mods, applied pretty much everything from both. Just needs Re Qualify.
i agree, but its just not quite the same unfortunatelyWeber wrote:
Explain why you need to both be able to play the map as well as have extensive mapping and modding knowledge when instead, as an experienced mapper, you COULD get the opinion of someone talented at the game who can play it, then through your own knowledge and experienced judgement, determine whether the map is good or not.Cherry Blossom wrote:
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
Because your train of thought where, just because we don't have a player that's both extremely proficient at both playing the game as well as mapping/modding it somehow gates us from ranking these kind of maps, just doesn't make sense imo.
i wish what u said were true tooThis map is passable, we just need someone who mastered playing with 4keys in osu!std to meet up with someone who has the aiming skills and then do a coop attempt.
And no, I'm not joking.
And no, I'm not joking.
Hi ! I wanted to help at least a bit by saying motivating shit !
I've read with attention all twenty pages of the post, which is something I do rarely, and here is what I think : This should be ranked. I'm thinking like Rohulk, having really really hard maps is good, because its motivating. Having maps you look up to, that you dream to do, is what makes you going.
"It's too difficult !" some say, I'd make a simple comparison. At first, humanity didn't even have fire, now, we've reached the moon, and I know that soon we'll reach the stars. Tell any prehistoric man that their descendance will reach the stars in the sky, I'm sure they wouldn't believe you, yet we're close to it now.
When I see something hard/seemingly impossible, I think 'what makes this look impossible ?... Oh, it's that and that, but now that I think about it, it's perfectly doable !'. I personnally believe that someday, someone will SS Centipede all mods, and when that day happens, this map will have been SS'ed all mods plenty of times already. The only way to improve it to challenge yourself. Let's improve the mapping meta by making and ranking this kind of hard yet well made maps !
I've read with attention all twenty pages of the post, which is something I do rarely, and here is what I think : This should be ranked. I'm thinking like Rohulk, having really really hard maps is good, because its motivating. Having maps you look up to, that you dream to do, is what makes you going.
"It's too difficult !" some say, I'd make a simple comparison. At first, humanity didn't even have fire, now, we've reached the moon, and I know that soon we'll reach the stars. Tell any prehistoric man that their descendance will reach the stars in the sky, I'm sure they wouldn't believe you, yet we're close to it now.
When I see something hard/seemingly impossible, I think 'what makes this look impossible ?... Oh, it's that and that, but now that I think about it, it's perfectly doable !'. I personnally believe that someday, someone will SS Centipede all mods, and when that day happens, this map will have been SS'ed all mods plenty of times already. The only way to improve it to challenge yourself. Let's improve the mapping meta by making and ranking this kind of hard yet well made maps !
If you bothered to actually look at the map, this uses global structure pretty well. It's pattern-based rather than distance-based.Cherry Blossom wrote:
@EphemeralFetish
And it's a bad idea to take patterns one by one. A map is made by its global structure, and judging patterns one by one doesn't make sense, because you ignore the context around it. And the context must not be forgotten.
Charles explained something similar in this video (around 2mins), please look at it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRW8EGbdfLA
Idk, smoothie world seems like he might have the requisite skills in both departments. Though hes quite literally the only person I can think of who comes close to satisfying both.Cherry Blossom wrote:
Cherry Blossom wrote:
Nobody has BOTH enough playing and modding skills to judge this map.
Edit: Rustbell is pretty good at 4key alternating with mouse but good fucking luck aiming at the same time lol. Hes pretty spro but I think even his inhuman rhythm game talents would struggle on this one.
Topic Starter
Reminder.
So apparently NOW it matters that the people responsible for ranking maps can also play them themselves...
No doubt Monstrata's quaver will get re-qualified real soon even though there's probably not a damn BN or QAT that can easily pass it much less his road of resistance or even maps like apparition for that matter (inb4 "don't use previously ranked maps to justify current pending maps" excuse.) That's played out and irrelevant because y'all know damn well it doesn't mean s*** if it happened yesterday or a few months ago if the rules are the same. It only further proves that BNs and QATs only pay attention when they're pushed to do it which pretty much means if none of them even care or bother then mistakes slip through.
I bet if this song was half the bpm and the map stayed the same y'all wouldn't be complaining.
No doubt Monstrata's quaver will get re-qualified real soon even though there's probably not a damn BN or QAT that can easily pass it much less his road of resistance or even maps like apparition for that matter (inb4 "don't use previously ranked maps to justify current pending maps" excuse.) That's played out and irrelevant because y'all know damn well it doesn't mean s*** if it happened yesterday or a few months ago if the rules are the same. It only further proves that BNs and QATs only pay attention when they're pushed to do it which pretty much means if none of them even care or bother then mistakes slip through.
I bet if this song was half the bpm and the map stayed the same y'all wouldn't be complaining.
I have to agree with this.Shiirn wrote:
If you bothered to actually look at the map, this uses global structure pretty well. It's pattern-based rather than distance-based.Cherry Blossom wrote:
@EphemeralFetish
And it's a bad idea to take patterns one by one. A map is made by its global structure, and judging patterns one by one doesn't make sense, because you ignore the context around it. And the context must not be forgotten.
Charles explained something similar in this video (around 2mins), please look at it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRW8EGbdfLA
The map has nothing complex in it. The fact it has 270 BPM deathstreams is another matter.
This is something I rarely do, but I do agree in part with what Rohulk said (regarding the player's point of view). While it is true no one can pass this map NOW it doesn't mean it can't make people strive for higher playing standards.
Holy, how can streams, one of the basic concepts of mapping, be difficult to understand?
How can simple jumps be considered yet again difficult to understand?
How?
It is fast, ok. That's it, tho.
Get it already.
Back to something more BN-related, since I'm here as a BN right now:
personally speaking, it changed nothing for me. The few mods that came in after/during the DQ were just a couple and they were meant to polish the map and not actually pointing out objectively "wrong" stuff (and we could endlessly continue doing this polishing since perfection doesn't exist, right?)
Yet again, I see no problems after rechecking the map so I don't see why it shouldn't be ranked.
I waited a bit longer to see if anyone was going to add something here, but it looks like the last 3-4 pages have no mods in it so I guess you guys got all the pseudo-drama you needed to calm down.
Here's your first bubble again and good luck with the other BNs
It was probably discussed before but i dont want to read through 21 pages of comments for this: why is the HP of this map so low? 4.7 sounds like you suddenly want to make up for the extreme difficulty of this map. (this is not an insult, im just trying to understand) I have never seen such a low HP before (except for easy maps ofc). Since you made a map noone can pass i don't think "anything higher would be too hard" is a valid excuse because if you want to create an unbeatable map, do it seriously. HP4.7 will result in the first pass being mashed. (again, I don't want to judge you, this is 100% objective).
Also another question on the side: Is there someone who can "pass" this with relax? i mean is there someone who has the cursor skills but lacks the finger skills?
Also another question on the side: Is there someone who can "pass" this with relax? i mean is there someone who has the cursor skills but lacks the finger skills?
Topic Starter
Me and mithew both had runs that failed after the last stream at hp5. I asked him how be felt about it being 5 and he said a little lower wouldnt hurt.
Wait, you actually managed to survive until the very end?! So much to "noone can pass this map"EphemeralFetish wrote:
Me and mithew both had runs that failed after the last stream at hp5. I asked him how be felr about it being 5 ans he said a little lower wouldnt hurt.
Topic Starter
Dont listen to a bunch of random people assuming no-one can pass this. Aside from the 2 of us all the other people who could probably pass it havent even tried. Ive seen people like rohulk even gain HP on the death stream at the end as well.LastExceed wrote:
Wait, you actually managed to survive until the very end?! So much to "noone can pass this map"EphemeralFetish wrote:
Me and mithew both had runs that failed after the last stream at hp5. I asked him how be felr about it being 5 ans he said a little lower wouldnt hurt.
Well in that case id definitely increase the HP and change the end of the beatmap. Putting the hardest part at the very end is extremely evil anyway (evil as in making people hate you for that)
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6195011LastExceed wrote:
Also another question on the side: Is there someone who can "pass" this with relax? i mean is there someone who has the cursor skills but lacks the finger skills?
Now finding someone who can pass this with Autopilot would be a way harder task
Nice Map, this is the first time that i see 2 song in one diff XD
I could, if i was able to read it +.+Worminators wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6195011LastExceed wrote:
Also another question on the side: Is there someone who can "pass" this with relax? i mean is there someone who has the cursor skills but lacks the finger skills?
Now finding someone who can pass this with Autopilot would be a way harder task
Higher HP with 270 bpm deathstreams isn't generally a good idea.LastExceed wrote:
Well in that case id definitely increase the HP and change the end of the beatmap. Putting the hardest part at the very end is extremely evil anyway (evil as in making people hate you for that)
Well as i said I'd change the death stream in the end. I find it stupid to make the HP so low that you can mash through the streams. Its like you want to make up for the difficulty because almost noone can pass the map properly, so peole who actually lack the required skill xan just mash through it and still pass the map.F1r3tar wrote:
Higher HP with 270 bpm deathstreams isn't generally a good idea.LastExceed wrote:
Well in that case id definitely increase the HP and change the end of the beatmap. Putting the hardest part at the very end is extremely evil anyway (evil as in making people hate you for that)
When I first heard of the map i thought we'd get something truly unique, a challenge that will break the osu! community as soon as someone beats it. But with a very low HP Its like highscore: i dont have nearly enough skill to play those jumps from that last diff, but i can still pass the map because the HP is so low that hittinng only every second note during the jump sections is enough to stay alive, which makes the map MUCH easier. Beating higgscore isnt really something you can be proud of, or at least i can't, because passing the map isnt nearly as hard as the mapping indicates at first. Same applies to this map here if the HP stays this low.
Right now we need the HP so a decent amount of people can pass it. (some might already be able to pass it with higher HP). but one day we will have people making A ranks and then there will be no point in it anymore. The problem is that the mainstream thinks
too hard = impossible = bad
Too hard isnt equal to impossible and even if it was its still not bad.
@EphemeralFetish, if you want to make a truly unique challenge then PLEASE change/replace/nerf/whatever the end stream and set thw HP to a proper value. And if the mainstream flames you for it, ignore them. Its your map.
Unfortunately noone will understand this. Many people wont even read what i just wrote. No matter how well i explain it, I will be called stupid by everyone because people can't think freely and those who can are either too few or just not here. The map will stay like this and the "ultimate challenge" will never happen. And then, a year later when we have some A ranks and cookiezi did the first FC, we look back and wonder: "why".
Topic Starter
I cant believe you find a 0.3 hp change that doesnt even matter that much such a big deal.
It's not the recent 0.3 change. If you set it back to 5 it would still be too low in my opinion. I think it should be 6-7 at least.EphemeralFetish wrote:
I cant believe you find a 0.3 hp change that doesnt even matter that much such a big deal.
Topic Starter
5 Is considered to be the lowest "acceptable" HP for bragging about passes. If I change it again it wont be anything higher than 5.2LastExceed wrote:
It's not the recent 0.3 change. If you set it back to 5 it would still be too low in my opinion. I think it should be 6-7EphemeralFetish wrote:
I cant believe you find a 0.3 hp change that doesnt even matter that much such a big deal.
See this is what i meant with "the ultimate challenge" will never happen. It really is a shame.EphemeralFetish wrote:
5 Is considered to be the lowest "acceptable" HP for bragging about passes. If I change it again it wont be anything higher than 5.2
Topic Starter
Theres a difference between an ultimate challenge and an unfair one.LastExceed wrote:
See this is what i meant with "the ultimate challenge" will never happen. It really is a shame.EphemeralFetish wrote:
5 Is considered to be the lowest "acceptable" HP for bragging about passes. If I change it again it wont be anything higher than 5.2
...and this is the point where I start repeating myself, which is also why others start calling it drama again. So since I have no chance to convince you anyway I'm not even going to try anymore.EphemeralFetish wrote:
Theres a difference between an ultimate challenge and an unfair one.