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LeaF - Paraclete [Osu|Taiko]
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really should take these into considerationpishifat wrote:
DONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALSDONT KEYSOUND WITHOUT HITNORMALS
please
general
dont keysound without hitnormals
normal
02:14:899 (1) - it fits so well but it's so anti-lowest-difficulty-gameplay-feature-nonsense
...and most people would argue stacks under slidertails
ranking requirements are fun
Grats
Nice keysounds~
Nice keysounds~
The 1/4 kick slider at the end in Normal is beyond acceptable in the lowest difficulty. Even though it fits, it is very challenging for players to read the continuous reversed arrows. We expect something trivial and apparent as it serves as the lowest difficulty in the set. Please replace it with a long slider or a spinner or something else player-friendly.
For keysounding, imitating each piano sound is barely audible because they literally sound the same. To provide appropriate and adequate feedback to players, default hitnormals should be included.
Good luck for requalification!
For keysounding, imitating each piano sound is barely audible because they literally sound the same. To provide appropriate and adequate feedback to players, default hitnormals should be included.
Good luck for requalification!
IamKwaN wrote:
To provide appropriate and adequate feedback to players, default hitnormals should be included.
Good for CTB.IamKwaN wrote:
The 1/4 kick slider at the end in Normal is beyond acceptable in the lowest difficulty. Even though it fits, it is very challenging for players to read the continuous reversed arrows. We expect something trivial and apparent as it serves as the lowest difficulty in the set. Please replace it with a long slider or a spinner or something else player-friendly.
For keysounding, imitating each piano sound is barely audible because they literally sound the same. To provide appropriate and adequate feedback to players, default hitnormals should be included.
Good luck for requalification!
Topic Starter
Due to popular demand, I've made some changes to the 1/3 sections as to be less "kill".
Normal:
Removed the last two sliders.
Extra:
00:48:256 (3,4) - fixed rhythm a tiny bit.
00:48:613 (6) - removed NC
00:48:899 (1) - made as repeat slider
Serendipity -
00:49:184 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Minor map change.
00:50:327 (1) - now is two repeating sliders instead of slider to circle pattern.
00:53:470 (1,2,3) - easier to hit.
00:54:899 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - much easier to hit.
Keysounds:
Talked with Kwan.
It's viable enough to be acceptable. Normals would ruin the sounds (mind as well delete them in that case). Applying it to whistles will destroy custom-hitsound muters to hear a bunch of whistle spams. It would also hinder my regular whistle usage.
Normal:
Removed the last two sliders.
Extra:
00:48:256 (3,4) - fixed rhythm a tiny bit.
00:48:613 (6) - removed NC
00:48:899 (1) - made as repeat slider
Serendipity -
00:49:184 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Minor map change.
00:50:327 (1) - now is two repeating sliders instead of slider to circle pattern.
00:53:470 (1,2,3) - easier to hit.
00:54:899 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) - much easier to hit.
Keysounds:
Talked with Kwan.
It's viable enough to be acceptable. Normals would ruin the sounds (mind as well delete them in that case). Applying it to whistles will destroy custom-hitsound muters to hear a bunch of whistle spams. It would also hinder my regular whistle usage.
i just love how u only put the top diff in the mappers desc lol
While this is DQ'ed can I ask why these combos are 16 long but the previous ones are 8 in last diff ?
02:09:184 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -
02:10:327 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -
02:09:184 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -
02:10:327 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -
Topic Starter
The streams get NC'd for their turns and since those streams don't turn sharp like former combos, so they extend for the whole measure.
The 1/4 repeat slider at the end of Normal is now replaced with a spinner.
rebub
rebub
Serendipity
01:30:899 (1) - why not nc here too?
01:30:899 (1) - why not nc here too?
Topic Starter
SrSkyPlayer wrote:
Serendipity
01:30:899 (1) - why not nc here too? fuk.
you can combine both the hi-hat hitnormal and the hitnormals you have to a single sound to not change a single thing about it, though. You don't even have to spam whistles, it just seems odd after 01:14:327 - which has constant hi-hats for hitnormal feedback to then basically change to barely any hitnormal except for 01:44:542 (5,6) - and a few others in the section which sound super random as a result.Kroytz wrote:
Keysounds:
Talked with Kwan.
It's viable enough to be acceptable. Normals would ruin the sounds (mind as well delete them in that case). Applying it to whistles will destroy custom-hitsound muters to hear a bunch of whistle spams. It would also hinder my regular whistle usage.
could literally take that hi-hat and throw it into your hitnormals together with the keysounds for each sampleset to have constant hitnormals providing feedback, while keeping your keysounds and avoiding people to hear whistlespam who mute hitsounds
edit: just leaving this here so whoever wants to may see for themselves before pushing this forward: http://puu.sh/qtdlC/d951af5a56.zip
the piano hitsounds play completely fine on their own, i don't see the need to add another sound to them.
Keyhitsounds are not completely fine on their own, it's kind of beyond me what players try to achieve with that. There is legit no feedback included and thus it's unrankable.
Something about the spread (last section) too.
I + A = four 1/4 slider
E + S = complete stream
imo you should really balance this out before this goes anywhere, along with providing more feedback to the objects.
Something about the spread (last section) too.
I + A = four 1/4 slider
E + S = complete stream
imo you should really balance this out before this goes anywhere, along with providing more feedback to the objects.
Topic Starter
It most definitely is not unrankable and if it was, you would've raised your voice 2 months ago when a similar keysounded map got qualified. But you and Okorin kept quiet so I don't understand why the sudden disdain. (I'll also just throw in the fact that the keyboard used for this song provides Hard keys compared to my former map which used Soft keys. Theoretically, it'd provide more feedback but that's beside the point.) In any case, as I've said to multiple users now, if a player doesn't like them then they can disable. It matters to me 0%.
What I try to achieve with the keysounds is to reflect the song back in my map. Because as a mapper - an artist if you will - I'd like to finish this project having the feeling of completion. If I could, I would find or make a SB for this but learning from past experiences, I'm better off sparing myself that trouble. If I could, I would hitsound all the other tiny sounds in the song but I'm currently unable to do that due to hitsounding limitations, so this is my next best compromise while keeping my intentions for this map.
I said to you Okorin: "It's amazing how when a map is subtly keysounded, nobody bats an eye. But when a majority of it is, people start to raise concern."
I can list many maps that utilize raw keysounds in excess or sparingly, and find people who have had 0 issues. Okay... so let's multiply that x however many sounds is needed for Paraclete and the idea is still the same. Perhaps it is because almost nobody does this and the idea of it seems both foreign and ludicrous. Maybe even as foreign or ludicrous as mapping with only horizontal sliders to Large grid. But let that be for a separate discussion.
You can enjoy (or not enjoy) however you wish to, there will be those who have a personal vendetta against keysounds and those who have a liking towards them. It matters to me not. What matters to me most is that I've completed what I set out to do to the best of my ability while following the ranking criteria as best as I could.
@Irre:
I + A = 1/4 slider.
E = Stream. Consider this the Extra that was meant to be. If Seren didn't exist, this would be fine.
Seren = Stream. Consider this as the evolved Extra, the bonus boss battle you face only after you've beaten the game. This is why this difficulty is 95% streams and is keysounded- because it's the Extra taken to the next level.
What I try to achieve with the keysounds is to reflect the song back in my map. Because as a mapper - an artist if you will - I'd like to finish this project having the feeling of completion. If I could, I would find or make a SB for this but learning from past experiences, I'm better off sparing myself that trouble. If I could, I would hitsound all the other tiny sounds in the song but I'm currently unable to do that due to hitsounding limitations, so this is my next best compromise while keeping my intentions for this map.
I said to you Okorin: "It's amazing how when a map is subtly keysounded, nobody bats an eye. But when a majority of it is, people start to raise concern."
I can list many maps that utilize raw keysounds in excess or sparingly, and find people who have had 0 issues. Okay... so let's multiply that x however many sounds is needed for Paraclete and the idea is still the same. Perhaps it is because almost nobody does this and the idea of it seems both foreign and ludicrous. Maybe even as foreign or ludicrous as mapping with only horizontal sliders to Large grid. But let that be for a separate discussion.
You can enjoy (or not enjoy) however you wish to, there will be those who have a personal vendetta against keysounds and those who have a liking towards them. It matters to me not. What matters to me most is that I've completed what I set out to do to the best of my ability while following the ranking criteria as best as I could.
@Irre:
I + A = 1/4 slider.
E = Stream. Consider this the Extra that was meant to be. If Seren didn't exist, this would be fine.
Seren = Stream. Consider this as the evolved Extra, the bonus boss battle you face only after you've beaten the game. This is why this difficulty is 95% streams and is keysounded- because it's the Extra taken to the next level.
It is unrankable, if there is no proper feedback provided, we really don't need to discuss that. Also, quit comparing your maps to what's already ranked, because they literally don't matter in this case.Kroytz wrote:
It most definitely is not unrankable and if it was, you would've raised your voice 2 months ago when a similar keysounded map got qualified. But you and Okorin kept quiet so I don't understand why the sudden disdain. (I'll also just throw in the fact that the keyboard used for this song provides Hard keys compared to my former map which used Soft keys. Theoretically, it'd provide more feedback but that's beside the point.) In any case, as I've said to multiple users now, if a player doesn't like them then they can disable. It matters to me 0%.
What I try to achieve with the keysounds is to reflect the song back in my map. Because as a mapper - an artist if you will - I'd like to finish this project having the feeling of completion. If I could, I would find or make a SB for this but learning from past experiences, I'm better off sparing myself that trouble. If I could, I would hitsound all the other tiny sounds in the song but I'm currently unable to do that due to hitsounding limitations, so this is my next best compromise while keeping my intentions for this map.
I said to you Okorin: "It's amazing how when a map is subtly keysounded, nobody bats an eye. But when a majority of it is, people start to raise concern."
I can list many maps that utilize raw keysounds in excess or sparingly, and find people who have had 0 issues. Okay... so let's multiply that x however many sounds is needed for Paraclete and the idea is still the same. Perhaps it is because almost nobody does this and the idea of it seems both foreign and ludicrous. Maybe even as foreign or ludicrous as mapping with only horizontal sliders to Large grid. But let that be for a separate discussion.
You can enjoy (or not enjoy) however you wish to, there will be those who have a personal vendetta against keysounds and those who have a liking towards them. It matters to me not. What matters to me most is that I've completed what I set out to do to the best of my ability while following the ranking criteria as best as I could.
@Irre:
I + A = 1/4 slider.
E = Stream. Consider this the Extra that was meant to be. If Seren didn't exist, this would be fine.
Seren = Stream. Consider this as the evolved Extra, the bonus boss battle you face only after you've beaten the game. This is why this difficulty is 95% streams and is keysounded- because it's the Extra taken to the next level.
Add feedback on your map, problem solved, no need to throw such a tantrum. You can ask many people - I have never supported keyhitsounds, because to me it appears to be a waste of time. If others want to do it, that's fine with me and I honestly don't mind it - but then with proper feedback.
If people can disable something, that's up to them but does not matter in this case as well.
About the spread, thanks for re-stating what I said, but that doesn't make the spread any better. And no, it wouldn't have been fine, and it doesn't make sense either. Another is pretty streamy, why not involving some streams too?
Topic Starter
I'm not trying to compare, I'm trying to provide relevance to a topic once discussed not too long ago.
The keysound itself is feedback. Maybe toning down music volume or increase effect volume and find that they are audible. Ranking Criteria within regards to audio states that it can't be silent, but this is not silent. And you think of it as a waste of time, I think otherwise. I've said to Okorin that similar to SB's (even really over the top ones), keysounding provides a player experience, albeit a much different one - if the player wishes to play alongside the music or without music where they create the song by hitting circles.
I can't say this argument will go any further considering we've reached an impasse, so perhaps I'll find more voices to speak about the subject (again).
___
I can add a couple of streams in addition to the sliders for Another.
The keysound itself is feedback. Maybe toning down music volume or increase effect volume and find that they are audible. Ranking Criteria within regards to audio states that it can't be silent, but this is not silent. And you think of it as a waste of time, I think otherwise. I've said to Okorin that similar to SB's (even really over the top ones), keysounding provides a player experience, albeit a much different one - if the player wishes to play alongside the music or without music where they create the song by hitting circles.
I can't say this argument will go any further considering we've reached an impasse, so perhaps I'll find more voices to speak about the subject (again).
___
I can add a couple of streams in addition to the sliders for Another.
If you want to involve actual RC wording:
Hitsounds from notes and sliders must be audible. These provide feedback for the player, and having them silent in a rhythm game doesn't make much sense.
the argument against your keysounding is that they provide very little feedback and are thus inappropriate as hitsounds
they do provide feedback, but only if you like don't really hit accurately... which in itself seems pretty odd for an assumption
Hitsounds from notes and sliders must be audible. These provide feedback for the player, and having them silent in a rhythm game doesn't make much sense.
the argument against your keysounding is that they provide very little feedback and are thus inappropriate as hitsounds
they do provide feedback, but only if you like don't really hit accurately... which in itself seems pretty odd for an assumption
i'd use oko's hitsoudnz anywy cuz ther 3489752349589x better tht way tbh ;/ but thts my opinion,
can u at leas t buffer ur sliderz tho plz /;
can u at leas t buffer ur sliderz tho plz /;
Topic Starter
Low feedback and silence are two very different things. This is practically gray area and only refutable by the QAT's personal ideologies.
I would've expected more neutral stances as to come to a resolution stated clearly within the RC.
audible ✓
silent ✗
I would've expected more neutral stances as to come to a resolution stated clearly within the RC.
audible ✓
silent ✗
audible ✓Kroytz wrote:
Low feedback and silence are two very different things. This is practically gray area and only refutable by the QAT's personal ideologies.
I would've expected more neutral stances as to come to a resolution stated clearly within the RC.
audible ✓
silent ✗
feedback ✗
rankable ✗
just do what vinxis said
Topic Starter
Your bias against keysounds make this all the less a legitimate claim.Irreversible wrote:
audible ✓
feedback ✗
rankable ✗
just do what vinxis said
I don't have a stance either way on this issue if I have to be honest, but KwaN made a point on a DQ'd map not too long ago (though it is a different case). When the hitsounds (or in this case keysounds) meld together with the song, they're not /truly/ giving the player feedback. In this case, your keysounding, though a slightly different tone than the song's, melds together to provide minimal feedback for a player.
Take that as you will.
Take that as you will.
things r grttin rowdy her e,,
can u plz buffr ur unbuffered sliderz tho..
EDI:T
my full opinion om the keysounds is tht ther cancr-like how thy r rn amd tht okos r 47827583x better but the mapper has a strong stance in not changing them anf they do give feedback (even tho its miniscule) + he wants to rank thr map so if anything forving sht wont help at all for both sidez..,
i thibk we hav to define wot is "proper" feedback here since both sides see it diffrntly lolz.
can u plz buffr ur unbuffered sliderz tho..
EDI:T
my full opinion om the keysounds is tht ther cancr-like how thy r rn amd tht okos r 47827583x better but the mapper has a strong stance in not changing them anf they do give feedback (even tho its miniscule) + he wants to rank thr map so if anything forving sht wont help at all for both sidez..,
i thibk we hav to define wot is "proper" feedback here since both sides see it diffrntly lolz.
Keysounding has never been rankable without hitnormal feedback and if something slipped through it's unfortunate, however not a reason to get this map ranked as it is. Streams are probably the gameplay element where hitsound feedback is needed the most, so using only keysounds here is definitely a bad decision.
It might not be 100% clear with the current Ranking Criteria, however we all know that the Criteria is outdated, so please don't rely too much on that. Your hitsounding might be 'rankable' depending on how you interprete the Ranking Criteria, however it's still a serious gameplay issue (aka quality issue) so it needs to be fixed. The Criteria Council is working on an update to the RC anyway, which will most likely prevent keysounding without hitnormals.
Great map btw, I really like it apart from the hitsounding issue :3
@VINXIS While your point is valid, the swear words and the spelling make it really hard to take your posts seriously.
It might not be 100% clear with the current Ranking Criteria, however we all know that the Criteria is outdated, so please don't rely too much on that. Your hitsounding might be 'rankable' depending on how you interprete the Ranking Criteria, however it's still a serious gameplay issue (aka quality issue) so it needs to be fixed. The Criteria Council is working on an update to the RC anyway, which will most likely prevent keysounding without hitnormals.
Great map btw, I really like it apart from the hitsounding issue :3
@VINXIS While your point is valid, the swear words and the spelling make it really hard to take your posts seriously.
i kno.
Topic Starter
I would've preferred to see a more strict or clearer rule about it so there wouldn't be this debate over semantics, but I think we have enough rules, so maybe just a fine line of acceptability and I'd be okay with that. Sincere apologies to all, it's time to move forward I guess. Also, thank you for the post D-kun~
Best to redownload the map now.
Another:
02:14:899 (1) - Changed the layout of this a bit, added some circles.
Serendipity:
Keysounds have been modified. Many thanks to Okorin!
02:14:899 (1) - Changed the layout of this a bit, added some circles.
Serendipity:
Keysounds have been modified. Many thanks to Okorin!
Best to redownload the map now.
but the keysounds sound super ugly now :,((((
rebub anyway
rebub anyway
lets go again
regratz!
Regratzz :3
regratz!