lol Auto gets a higher acc when hr is on
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i cant tell if -gn's comment is a meme or not
it probably is
it probably is
butterfly sliders. it's not possible FOR AN ACTUAL PLAYER due to missed sliderends. i don't think there's a way to pass it unless you're auto, so i'm requesting a HPD dropOkorin wrote:
which part is actually impossible to pass using hard rock? the star sliders, the butterflies or which because Auto can apparently deal with this map on HR
maybe making them part of the break would solve that too as far as im aware the break thing removes all hp drain from the respective section
we'll see what monstrata wants to do to it
we'll see what monstrata wants to do to it
So, uhh I have a 1280x1024 monitor and I play fullscreen.
02:02:726 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - All of these triples at the end of the map are partially off screen, with the last one being almost completely off screen. Although it's still possible to hit them. Is this intended?
(how it looks on my end)
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680727
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680888
02:02:726 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - All of these triples at the end of the map are partially off screen, with the last one being almost completely off screen. Although it's still possible to hit them. Is this intended?
(how it looks on my end)
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680727
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680888
it is very intendedMancis wrote:
So, uhh I have a 1280x1024 monitor and I play fullscreen.
02:02:726 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - All of these triples at the end of the map are partially off screen, with the last one being almost completely off screen. Although it's still possible to hit them. Is this intended?
(how it looks on my end)
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680727
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680888
i don't think that's what he wants judging by what he's said earlier. i think hp3 would be a better fixOkorin wrote:
maybe making them part of the break would solve that too as far as im aware the break thing removes all hp drain from the respective section
we'll see what monstrata wants to do to it
Topic Starter
I don't want to lower the HP any more than it already is, or there'd be no challenge passing it on nomod, which is what this map is meant for.
I mean, it's already decently easy to pass. Why make it even easier?
the difference in challenge in passing it nomod is negligible, but making it possible to pass on HR adds another layer of challenge to the map, which the pro players would enjoy(i know i would).
its really hard-GN wrote:
the difference in challenge in passing it nomod is negligible, but making it possible to pass on HR adds another layer of challenge to the map, which the pro players would enjoy(i know i would).
adding a break on the butterfly effect would also help conpensate over its acc problem, but ofc up to you
Topic Starter
I don't think a break fits there 
. Also HR makes the butterfly animation look so weird :C. Play on nomod and try to get high acc . If you want a challenge, I got some 7.5 star maps I wanna qualify soon .
. Also HR makes the butterfly animation look so weird :C. Play on nomod and try to get high acc . If you want a challenge, I got some 7.5 star maps I wanna qualify soon .Just posting b4 this get DQ it does, congrats
00:42:813 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -
and
01:11:002 (1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
...Seriously, if this isn't nerfed, the QAT really lacks brightness... Looking good isn't enough, it has to be playable (NO it's ISN'T, it's not because "mr #30K" can clear it that it's playable...THE AUTO CAN'T EVEN SS)
That and the fake reverse sliders that should be banned...Why do you think there's a forced stack option in editor for single notes, guys...REALLY
(For everyone that argue the challenge, why not ranking all the graveyarded maps all the top players like to play for challenge, then? they're all playable(more than this map))
Ranking this map is a step backward in gameplay, in my opinion
and
01:11:002 (1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
...Seriously, if this isn't nerfed, the QAT really lacks brightness... Looking good isn't enough, it has to be playable (NO it's ISN'T, it's not because "mr #30K" can clear it that it's playable...THE AUTO CAN'T EVEN SS)
That and the fake reverse sliders that should be banned...Why do you think there's a forced stack option in editor for single notes, guys...REALLY
(For everyone that argue the challenge, why not ranking all the graveyarded maps all the top players like to play for challenge, then? they're all playable(more than this map))
Ranking this map is a step backward in gameplay, in my opinion
I don't even know if is a meme or people posting serious things lol
i raised my complaint because this was the challenge i wanted - i also believe that all maps should be passable on HR, and this violates that 
of course i could resort to NF, but then it'd be impossible to get a high score, or even a #1. i'd also be at risk of overwriting a good score should i come across this map in a multi game(or a tournament lol)
i really think it should be tweaked so that this map gets the replayability it deserves, or at least closer to it. it's very interesting, and i like it a lot!
of course i could resort to NF, but then it'd be impossible to get a high score, or even a #1. i'd also be at risk of overwriting a good score should i come across this map in a multi game(or a tournament lol)
i really think it should be tweaked so that this map gets the replayability it deserves, or at least closer to it. it's very interesting, and i like it a lot!
Monstrata putain make it HRable or I won't farm your maps anymore pls :<
Topic Starter
But the map is already quite easy to pass . Like, if I lower it any more, none of the patterns I set up will pose any sort of challenge to nomod players... You really lose a sense of challenge and accomplishment for the player if you set the HP too low.
. Like, if I lower it any more, none of the patterns I set up will pose any sort of challenge to nomod players... You really lose a sense of challenge and accomplishment for the player if you set the HP too low.Yeah make it HRable, it's too easy nomod
If you lower the hp BY 0.1 it is PASSABLE with hr.
I spammed through it and got through with a sliver of health.
I spammed through it and got through with a sliver of health.
Actually a good idea.riktoi wrote:
If you lower the hp BY 0.1 it is PASSABLE with hr.
if it's just a .1 or .2 drop you should probably consider that monstrata, can we get more ppl to confirm this by testing around?
Topic Starter
Yea, is there proof this is actually impossible to HR? Not "very difficult"?
let me just make a video real quickMonstrata wrote:
Yea, is there proof this is actually impossible to HR? Not "very difficult"?
video here (HP 3.9):
note you can't survive the break after the butterfly pattern so you might need to tone it down to 3.8 for hr players (had to use nf so i could survive that far into the map
)Did a quick edit on the editor testplaying with HR. Yeah, even without objects before this, this is actually impossible to HR (yeah, I'm streaming fine)
http://puu.sh/qcUvb.gif <-- here
http://puu.sh/qcUvb.gif <-- here
http://gn.s-ul.eu/aeV188ZZ
i made a version of the map(deleted first 65 seconds) with a change to the butterfly sliders that makes it possible to pass even at HP7(HP5+HR, that is).
what i changed was:
i doubled the bpm of the shift that takes it to 1392 during the butterfly sliders, so every slider is twice as fast(didn't change SV multipliers). the bpm here is now 2784, which is half of the maximum used elsewhere, so it doesn't inflate it
then every slider after the shift has its length doubled by making red ticks that go in zigzag motion up and down through the middle like this, except in the middle of the slider so you can't see them.
you could try implementing this concept into the map yourself(or you know, copy the hitobjects part and do whatever cleanup you see fit) - in this case you don't actually need to change the HP(you could possibly even increase it) and everyone is happy!
i made a version of the map(deleted first 65 seconds) with a change to the butterfly sliders that makes it possible to pass even at HP7(HP5+HR, that is).
what i changed was:
i doubled the bpm of the shift that takes it to 1392 during the butterfly sliders, so every slider is twice as fast(didn't change SV multipliers). the bpm here is now 2784, which is half of the maximum used elsewhere, so it doesn't inflate it
then every slider after the shift has its length doubled by making red ticks that go in zigzag motion up and down through the middle like this, except in the middle of the slider so you can't see them.
you could try implementing this concept into the map yourself(or you know, copy the hitobjects part and do whatever cleanup you see fit) - in this case you don't actually need to change the HP(you could possibly even increase it) and everyone is happy!
Topic Starter
Hmm... I think you're just not streaming well enough, or not cheesing it by purposefully tapping earlier to take advantage of slider-head leniency. Have people considered holding onto the keys slightly before releasing too, when streaming?
I see a lot of people failing yes, but nothing's convinced me this is impossible to HR, it's just shown me no one's thought up a way to pass it on HR yet... Ideally, i'd like to see a really high acc fc of that stream that still fails, before reconsidering an HP drain nerf. And even then, if the fix requires an HP drain nerf of more than 0.2 then i'd still be against it. This map is made for nomod and nomod only. I'll consider other mods of course, but not if I feel they will negatively affect the nomod experience.
The purpose of higher HP drain is to provide a challenge, and to keep players hooked to the map in hopes of passing it the next retry. If the HP is too low, you lose a sense of accomplishment imo.
I see a lot of people failing yes, but nothing's convinced me this is impossible to HR, it's just shown me no one's thought up a way to pass it on HR yet... Ideally, i'd like to see a really high acc fc of that stream that still fails, before reconsidering an HP drain nerf. And even then, if the fix requires an HP drain nerf of more than 0.2 then i'd still be against it. This map is made for nomod and nomod only. I'll consider other mods of course, but not if I feel they will negatively affect the nomod experience.
The purpose of higher HP drain is to provide a challenge, and to keep players hooked to the map in hopes of passing it the next retry. If the HP is too low, you lose a sense of accomplishment imo.
auto can perfectly ss it, even with hrRemyria wrote:
THE AUTO CAN'T EVEN SS
proof:
Topic Starter
This doesn't actually change how the slider is played though. The reason you're getting 100's isn't because of the slider's path, its the notelocking and slider-head window. Whether I have zigzags on the body or not, it won't affect the outcome because only the slider-head, and slider-tail are being factored in.-GN wrote:
http://gn.s-ul.eu/aeV188ZZ
i made a version of the map(deleted first 65 seconds) with a change to the butterfly sliders that makes it possible to pass even at HP7(HP5+HR, that is).
what i changed was:
i doubled the bpm of the shift that takes it to 1392 during the butterfly sliders, so every slider is twice as fast(didn't change SV multipliers). the bpm here is now 2784, which is half of the maximum used elsewhere, so it doesn't inflate it
then every slider after the shift has its length doubled by making red ticks that go in zigzag motion up and down through the middle like this, except in the middle of the slider so you can't see them.
you could try implementing this concept into the map yourself(or you know, copy the hitobjects part and do whatever cleanup you see fit) - in this case you don't actually need to change the HP(you could possibly even increase it) and everyone is happy!
You mentioned deleting half of the map. That seriously affects HP drain too though. HP drain is really complex because it also takes into account the entire map's object density, as well as the NC frequency in the map, so removing half of the map already skews the HP drain substantially when comparing it to the full version. (Think of Cookiezi's spinner fail on my Road of Resistance map, except so much of the map was deleted, along with NC rhythms, that the map ended up draining more than it was supposed to. Here the song is shorter, and you've only deleted half, and not 95% so HP drain should be higher than it actually is).
Really nice mapping, but why is it qualified? is it a new trend to place notes outside the board. (didnt even laugh at that point almost expected it)
Edit: Oh yeah and can some serious person please take responsibility and make sure maps like this dont get ranked?
Edit: Oh yeah and can some serious person please take responsibility and make sure maps like this dont get ranked?
oh I see, my PC is too shit for recording xd
btw, I screenshoted a replay before and I decided to post it, Xilver had an HR testplay before (stalking one day lmao) and he did survive to those butterflies but not FCing it. I think the map is not FCable but it's fully playable.
btw, I screenshoted a replay before and I decided to post it, Xilver had an HR testplay before (stalking one day lmao) and he did survive to those butterflies but not FCing it. I think the map is not FCable but it's fully playable.
this is an aspire entry, a mapping contest that breaks ranking criterial1mi wrote:
Really nice mapping, but why is it qualified? is it a new trend to place notes outside the board. (didnt even laugh at that point almost expected it)
I think it depends on framerate, too. Testing HR+Relax on my laptop, I need HP3.6 or lower to pass the butterfly sliders, but some people have reported luck with 3.8 or 3.9 - I'll test this more when I get home in a few hours.
i fail to confirm that map is impossible to hr
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5682945
im guessing i could pass it because slider leniency i had is more because of cs0, but i *think* its possible to pass with cs 4.5 hr too
edit: its definitely because of cs0, so this proves nothing at all, we still need an actual cs4.5 hr pass
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5682945
im guessing i could pass it because slider leniency i had is more because of cs0, but i *think* its possible to pass with cs 4.5 hr too
edit: its definitely because of cs0, so this proves nothing at all, we still need an actual cs4.5 hr pass
another 2nd survivor
right now there's so much conflicting information that it becomes hard to find out what is different in this map to others. Could it be different osu! versions or different settings? Could it be framerate dependant? Or could it just be flat out luck or incapability/capability on some people's side?
return soon ez heroMillhioreF wrote:
I think it depends on framerate, too. Testing HR+Relax on my laptop, I need HP3.6 or lower to pass the butterfly sliders, but some people have reported luck with 3.8 or 3.9 - I'll test this more when I get home in a few hours.
that's not true, though. play a fast enough slider by holding only the start and the very end and you'll end up getting 100s anyway(might be dependent on framerate... or whether the slider isn't fast enough). Ekoro's shoe has a slider like this at the end which demonstrates that it doesn't necessarily mean i'm not hitting the sliderstart. spamming as hard as i can on a map with the current butterfly sliders on HT also results in a ton of 100s.Monstrata wrote:
This doesn't actually change how the slider is played though. The reason you're getting 100's isn't because of the slider's path, its the notelocking and slider-head window. Whether I have zigzags on the body or not, it won't affect the outcome because only the slider-head, and slider-tail are being factored in.
on my diff, that effect is somewhat alleviated(and could probably be done away with entirely with a well researched implementation). that's why i can pass it, and not the original.
e: in this video, look at how he aims at the fast circular sliders; he's not aiming at the exact end, but a bit further into it. that's a strategy that i think demonstrates what kind of aiming is required to 300 extremely fast sliders like this.
in all cases i'm aware of, the HP drain can only increase because of this, which is also true for the case you just mentioned. i doubt it has an effect on my edit, since i can pass it just fine even if that effect is present here.Monstrata wrote:
You mentioned deleting half of the map. That seriously affects HP drain too though. HP drain is really complex because it also takes into account the entire map's object density, as well as the NC frequency in the map, so removing half of the map already skews the HP drain substantially when comparing it to the full version. (Think of Cookiezi's spinner fail on my Road of Resistance map, except so much of the map was deleted, along with NC rhythms, that the map ended up draining more than it was supposed to. Here the song is shorter, and you've only deleted half, and not 95% so HP drain should be higher than it actually is).
i also can't tell if there's a difference in HP between my practice diff for the original sliders and the full map. either way, i don't think it can be done, which is why i'm suggesting it be changed in the first place.
Have people tried placing their cursor such that you barely hit the sliderhead, but your cursor is further inside the sliderbody on the sliderend side? Also, is the only strat for this basically just mashing as fast as they can? Controlled streaming might work as well as long as you hold down your keys long enough.
Although all that's just speculation; I don't have the ability to playtest right now
Although all that's just speculation; I don't have the ability to playtest right now
this is accurate enough streaming to be unaffected by notelock(i don't have to do any extra taps, i hit the final circle), and i still can't do it
Got home and did some more tests of my own - it's mostly unaffected by framerate (I have maybe one or two extra 300s on 0.7ms vs 4.2ms) and almost definitely impossible - I used relax to ensure notelock didn't happen. Maybe hitting early changes the outcome slightly, but I still doubt it.
HP3.6 seems to be right around the border of possibility - the bar empties right as you hit the next note, so I'm not sure if it's a pass or not. HP3.5 is definitely passable, though.
I'll ask some people higher up in the chain how they feel about this, but I strongly suggest implementing something like in -GN's difficulty; disallowing an entire difficulty-increasing mod is just mean in my opinion.
HP3.6 seems to be right around the border of possibility - the bar empties right as you hit the next note, so I'm not sure if it's a pass or not. HP3.5 is definitely passable, though.
I'll ask some people higher up in the chain how they feel about this, but I strongly suggest implementing something like in -GN's difficulty; disallowing an entire difficulty-increasing mod is just mean in my opinion.