Considered, but I'll just add it to map description i guess. Anything under 3 characters isn't searchable anyways xD
show more
That static note at the beginning. lol
video here (HP 3.9):
note you can't survive the break after the butterfly pattern so you might need to tone it down to 3.8 for hr players (had to use nf so i could survive that far into the map
)
proof:
You mentioned deleting half of the map. That seriously affects HP drain too though. HP drain is really complex because it also takes into account the entire map's object density, as well as the NC frequency in the map, so removing half of the map already skews the HP drain substantially when comparing it to the full version. (Think of Cookiezi's spinner fail on my Road of Resistance map, except so much of the map was deleted, along with NC rhythms, that the map ended up draining more than it was supposed to. Here the song is shorter, and you've only deleted half, and not 95% so HP drain should be higher than it actually is).
on my diff, that effect is somewhat alleviated(and could probably be done away with entirely with a well researched implementation). that's why i can pass it, and not the original.
e: in this video, look at how he aims at the fast circular sliders; he's not aiming at the exact end, but a bit further into it. that's a strategy that i think demonstrates what kind of aiming is required to 300 extremely fast sliders like this.
i also can't tell if there's a difference in HP between my practice diff for the original sliders and the full map. either way, i don't think it can be done, which is why i'm suggesting it be changed in the first place.
this is accurate enough streaming to be unaffected by notelock(i don't have to do any extra taps, i hit the final circle), and i still can't do it
please apply my slider concept. there's nothing wrong with it.
(or did I miss something?)
come on. the strongest reason argued against this is "it looks weird/different when auto plays GN's quickly edited proof of concept", which i should add, can be done in a much more tasteful way if you alter the zigzag to cover a smaller area. is that REALLY all the reason you need to deny me?
show more
Topic Starter
Lince Cosmico_old
Topic Starter
Its not the same lol.
The beautiful butterfly crashes osu
update your video graphics, maybe your pc is low-end
Possibly. But I just tested it out in the Editor mode's testplay, and Auto plays it fine there. So that's good at least :pUnderforest wrote:
update your video graphics, maybe your pc is low-end
4 bubbles lol why
ok 5 nominations are enough, congrats
gratz~!
wow
gratz monstrata :>!
gratz monstrata :>!
T H E
G O D
G O D
greatz! you are worth to be winner!
If Lord of Triangles alone can make this awesome map,
i imagine what would happen if Monstrata collaborates with Charles445 making an Aspire diff...
Will the earth reach it's doom then??
Anyway, congrats!
I want to give my triangle cookie to you but i can't. :v
i imagine what would happen if Monstrata collaborates with Charles445 making an Aspire diff...
Will the earth reach it's doom then??
Anyway, congrats!
I want to give my triangle cookie to you but i can't. :v
monstrata r/n
That static note at the beginning. lol
Gratzz! :3
Im proud of you, Senpai. Congrats on the Rank <3
Get ready for both 5568 BPM and 1 BPM with 0.03 SVOnosakiHito wrote:
That static note at the beginning. lol
I guess that was fast
4 bubbles wew
nothing beats the legendary question mark tho
nothing beats the legendary question mark tho
gratzzzzz
I'm not an STD player, but one thing for sure, this is a goddamn elite stuff
GRATZ =w=)b
GRATZ =w=)b
hello,
it has come to my attention that this map is actually impossible to pass using hard rock due to the HP being too high. while this is technically not a requirement for ranking, it's pretty annoying to players that would want to FC it using HR.
making it possible to pass(HP3 works just fine, i tried it out) would increase the skill ceiling for this map, and subsequently the replayability of it. could you do something about this?
it has come to my attention that this map is actually impossible to pass using hard rock due to the HP being too high. while this is technically not a requirement for ranking, it's pretty annoying to players that would want to FC it using HR.
making it possible to pass(HP3 works just fine, i tried it out) would increase the skill ceiling for this map, and subsequently the replayability of it. could you do something about this?
which part is actually impossible to pass using hard rock? the star sliders, the butterflies or which because Auto can apparently deal with this map on HR
this is, in the end, Monstrata's call so if he wants to address this as an issue i'll dq and requal after that's been taken care of.
this is, in the end, Monstrata's call so if he wants to address this as an issue i'll dq and requal after that's been taken care of.
lol Auto gets a higher acc when hr is on
i cant tell if -gn's comment is a meme or not
it probably is
it probably is
butterfly sliders. it's not possible FOR AN ACTUAL PLAYER due to missed sliderends. i don't think there's a way to pass it unless you're auto, so i'm requesting a HPD dropOkorin wrote:
which part is actually impossible to pass using hard rock? the star sliders, the butterflies or which because Auto can apparently deal with this map on HR
maybe making them part of the break would solve that too as far as im aware the break thing removes all hp drain from the respective section
we'll see what monstrata wants to do to it
we'll see what monstrata wants to do to it
So, uhh I have a 1280x1024 monitor and I play fullscreen.
02:02:726 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - All of these triples at the end of the map are partially off screen, with the last one being almost completely off screen. Although it's still possible to hit them. Is this intended?
(how it looks on my end)
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680727
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680888
02:02:726 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - All of these triples at the end of the map are partially off screen, with the last one being almost completely off screen. Although it's still possible to hit them. Is this intended?
(how it looks on my end)
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680727
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680888
it is very intendedMancis wrote:
So, uhh I have a 1280x1024 monitor and I play fullscreen.
02:02:726 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - All of these triples at the end of the map are partially off screen, with the last one being almost completely off screen. Although it's still possible to hit them. Is this intended?
(how it looks on my end)
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680727
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5680888
i don't think that's what he wants judging by what he's said earlier. i think hp3 would be a better fixOkorin wrote:
maybe making them part of the break would solve that too as far as im aware the break thing removes all hp drain from the respective section
we'll see what monstrata wants to do to it
Topic Starter
I don't want to lower the HP any more than it already is, or there'd be no challenge passing it on nomod, which is what this map is meant for.
I mean, it's already decently easy to pass. Why make it even easier?
the difference in challenge in passing it nomod is negligible, but making it possible to pass on HR adds another layer of challenge to the map, which the pro players would enjoy(i know i would).
its really hard-GN wrote:
the difference in challenge in passing it nomod is negligible, but making it possible to pass on HR adds another layer of challenge to the map, which the pro players would enjoy(i know i would).
adding a break on the butterfly effect would also help conpensate over its acc problem, but ofc up to you
Topic Starter
I don't think a break fits there 
. Also HR makes the butterfly animation look so weird :C. Play on nomod and try to get high acc . If you want a challenge, I got some 7.5 star maps I wanna qualify soon .
. Also HR makes the butterfly animation look so weird :C. Play on nomod and try to get high acc . If you want a challenge, I got some 7.5 star maps I wanna qualify soon .Just posting b4 this get DQ it does, congrats
00:42:813 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) -
and
01:11:002 (1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
...Seriously, if this isn't nerfed, the QAT really lacks brightness... Looking good isn't enough, it has to be playable (NO it's ISN'T, it's not because "mr #30K" can clear it that it's playable...THE AUTO CAN'T EVEN SS)
That and the fake reverse sliders that should be banned...Why do you think there's a forced stack option in editor for single notes, guys...REALLY
(For everyone that argue the challenge, why not ranking all the graveyarded maps all the top players like to play for challenge, then? they're all playable(more than this map))
Ranking this map is a step backward in gameplay, in my opinion
and
01:11:002 (1,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
...Seriously, if this isn't nerfed, the QAT really lacks brightness... Looking good isn't enough, it has to be playable (NO it's ISN'T, it's not because "mr #30K" can clear it that it's playable...THE AUTO CAN'T EVEN SS)
That and the fake reverse sliders that should be banned...Why do you think there's a forced stack option in editor for single notes, guys...REALLY
(For everyone that argue the challenge, why not ranking all the graveyarded maps all the top players like to play for challenge, then? they're all playable(more than this map))
Ranking this map is a step backward in gameplay, in my opinion
I don't even know if is a meme or people posting serious things lol
i raised my complaint because this was the challenge i wanted - i also believe that all maps should be passable on HR, and this violates that
of course i could resort to NF, but then it'd be impossible to get a high score, or even a #1. i'd also be at risk of overwriting a good score should i come across this map in a multi game(or a tournament lol)
i really think it should be tweaked so that this map gets the replayability it deserves, or at least closer to it. it's very interesting, and i like it a lot!
of course i could resort to NF, but then it'd be impossible to get a high score, or even a #1. i'd also be at risk of overwriting a good score should i come across this map in a multi game(or a tournament lol)
i really think it should be tweaked so that this map gets the replayability it deserves, or at least closer to it. it's very interesting, and i like it a lot!
Monstrata putain make it HRable or I won't farm your maps anymore pls :<
Topic Starter
But the map is already quite easy to pass . Like, if I lower it any more, none of the patterns I set up will pose any sort of challenge to nomod players... You really lose a sense of challenge and accomplishment for the player if you set the HP too low.
. Like, if I lower it any more, none of the patterns I set up will pose any sort of challenge to nomod players... You really lose a sense of challenge and accomplishment for the player if you set the HP too low.Yeah make it HRable, it's too easy nomod
If you lower the hp BY 0.1 it is PASSABLE with hr.
I spammed through it and got through with a sliver of health.
I spammed through it and got through with a sliver of health.
Actually a good idea.riktoi wrote:
If you lower the hp BY 0.1 it is PASSABLE with hr.
if it's just a .1 or .2 drop you should probably consider that monstrata, can we get more ppl to confirm this by testing around?
Topic Starter
Yea, is there proof this is actually impossible to HR? Not "very difficult"?
let me just make a video real quickMonstrata wrote:
Yea, is there proof this is actually impossible to HR? Not "very difficult"?
video here (HP 3.9):
note you can't survive the break after the butterfly pattern so you might need to tone it down to 3.8 for hr players (had to use nf so i could survive that far into the map
)Did a quick edit on the editor testplaying with HR. Yeah, even without objects before this, this is actually impossible to HR (yeah, I'm streaming fine)
http://puu.sh/qcUvb.gif <-- here
http://puu.sh/qcUvb.gif <-- here
http://gn.s-ul.eu/aeV188ZZ
i made a version of the map(deleted first 65 seconds) with a change to the butterfly sliders that makes it possible to pass even at HP7(HP5+HR, that is).
what i changed was:
i doubled the bpm of the shift that takes it to 1392 during the butterfly sliders, so every slider is twice as fast(didn't change SV multipliers). the bpm here is now 2784, which is half of the maximum used elsewhere, so it doesn't inflate it
then every slider after the shift has its length doubled by making red ticks that go in zigzag motion up and down through the middle like this, except in the middle of the slider so you can't see them.
you could try implementing this concept into the map yourself(or you know, copy the hitobjects part and do whatever cleanup you see fit) - in this case you don't actually need to change the HP(you could possibly even increase it) and everyone is happy!
i made a version of the map(deleted first 65 seconds) with a change to the butterfly sliders that makes it possible to pass even at HP7(HP5+HR, that is).
what i changed was:
i doubled the bpm of the shift that takes it to 1392 during the butterfly sliders, so every slider is twice as fast(didn't change SV multipliers). the bpm here is now 2784, which is half of the maximum used elsewhere, so it doesn't inflate it
then every slider after the shift has its length doubled by making red ticks that go in zigzag motion up and down through the middle like this, except in the middle of the slider so you can't see them.
you could try implementing this concept into the map yourself(or you know, copy the hitobjects part and do whatever cleanup you see fit) - in this case you don't actually need to change the HP(you could possibly even increase it) and everyone is happy!
Topic Starter
Hmm... I think you're just not streaming well enough, or not cheesing it by purposefully tapping earlier to take advantage of slider-head leniency. Have people considered holding onto the keys slightly before releasing too, when streaming?
I see a lot of people failing yes, but nothing's convinced me this is impossible to HR, it's just shown me no one's thought up a way to pass it on HR yet... Ideally, i'd like to see a really high acc fc of that stream that still fails, before reconsidering an HP drain nerf. And even then, if the fix requires an HP drain nerf of more than 0.2 then i'd still be against it. This map is made for nomod and nomod only. I'll consider other mods of course, but not if I feel they will negatively affect the nomod experience.
The purpose of higher HP drain is to provide a challenge, and to keep players hooked to the map in hopes of passing it the next retry. If the HP is too low, you lose a sense of accomplishment imo.
I see a lot of people failing yes, but nothing's convinced me this is impossible to HR, it's just shown me no one's thought up a way to pass it on HR yet... Ideally, i'd like to see a really high acc fc of that stream that still fails, before reconsidering an HP drain nerf. And even then, if the fix requires an HP drain nerf of more than 0.2 then i'd still be against it. This map is made for nomod and nomod only. I'll consider other mods of course, but not if I feel they will negatively affect the nomod experience.
The purpose of higher HP drain is to provide a challenge, and to keep players hooked to the map in hopes of passing it the next retry. If the HP is too low, you lose a sense of accomplishment imo.
auto can perfectly ss it, even with hrRemyria wrote:
THE AUTO CAN'T EVEN SS
proof:
Topic Starter
This doesn't actually change how the slider is played though. The reason you're getting 100's isn't because of the slider's path, its the notelocking and slider-head window. Whether I have zigzags on the body or not, it won't affect the outcome because only the slider-head, and slider-tail are being factored in.-GN wrote:
http://gn.s-ul.eu/aeV188ZZ
i made a version of the map(deleted first 65 seconds) with a change to the butterfly sliders that makes it possible to pass even at HP7(HP5+HR, that is).
what i changed was:
i doubled the bpm of the shift that takes it to 1392 during the butterfly sliders, so every slider is twice as fast(didn't change SV multipliers). the bpm here is now 2784, which is half of the maximum used elsewhere, so it doesn't inflate it
then every slider after the shift has its length doubled by making red ticks that go in zigzag motion up and down through the middle like this, except in the middle of the slider so you can't see them.
you could try implementing this concept into the map yourself(or you know, copy the hitobjects part and do whatever cleanup you see fit) - in this case you don't actually need to change the HP(you could possibly even increase it) and everyone is happy!
You mentioned deleting half of the map. That seriously affects HP drain too though. HP drain is really complex because it also takes into account the entire map's object density, as well as the NC frequency in the map, so removing half of the map already skews the HP drain substantially when comparing it to the full version. (Think of Cookiezi's spinner fail on my Road of Resistance map, except so much of the map was deleted, along with NC rhythms, that the map ended up draining more than it was supposed to. Here the song is shorter, and you've only deleted half, and not 95% so HP drain should be higher than it actually is).
Really nice mapping, but why is it qualified? is it a new trend to place notes outside the board. (didnt even laugh at that point almost expected it)
Edit: Oh yeah and can some serious person please take responsibility and make sure maps like this dont get ranked?
Edit: Oh yeah and can some serious person please take responsibility and make sure maps like this dont get ranked?
oh I see, my PC is too shit for recording xd
btw, I screenshoted a replay before and I decided to post it, Xilver had an HR testplay before (stalking one day lmao) and he did survive to those butterflies but not FCing it. I think the map is not FCable but it's fully playable.
btw, I screenshoted a replay before and I decided to post it, Xilver had an HR testplay before (stalking one day lmao) and he did survive to those butterflies but not FCing it. I think the map is not FCable but it's fully playable.
this is an aspire entry, a mapping contest that breaks ranking criterial1mi wrote:
Really nice mapping, but why is it qualified? is it a new trend to place notes outside the board. (didnt even laugh at that point almost expected it)
I think it depends on framerate, too. Testing HR+Relax on my laptop, I need HP3.6 or lower to pass the butterfly sliders, but some people have reported luck with 3.8 or 3.9 - I'll test this more when I get home in a few hours.
i fail to confirm that map is impossible to hr
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5682945
im guessing i could pass it because slider leniency i had is more because of cs0, but i *think* its possible to pass with cs 4.5 hr too
edit: its definitely because of cs0, so this proves nothing at all, we still need an actual cs4.5 hr pass
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5682945
im guessing i could pass it because slider leniency i had is more because of cs0, but i *think* its possible to pass with cs 4.5 hr too
edit: its definitely because of cs0, so this proves nothing at all, we still need an actual cs4.5 hr pass
another 2nd survivor
right now there's so much conflicting information that it becomes hard to find out what is different in this map to others. Could it be different osu! versions or different settings? Could it be framerate dependant? Or could it just be flat out luck or incapability/capability on some people's side?
return soon ez heroMillhioreF wrote:
I think it depends on framerate, too. Testing HR+Relax on my laptop, I need HP3.6 or lower to pass the butterfly sliders, but some people have reported luck with 3.8 or 3.9 - I'll test this more when I get home in a few hours.
that's not true, though. play a fast enough slider by holding only the start and the very end and you'll end up getting 100s anyway(might be dependent on framerate... or whether the slider isn't fast enough). Ekoro's shoe has a slider like this at the end which demonstrates that it doesn't necessarily mean i'm not hitting the sliderstart. spamming as hard as i can on a map with the current butterfly sliders on HT also results in a ton of 100s.Monstrata wrote:
This doesn't actually change how the slider is played though. The reason you're getting 100's isn't because of the slider's path, its the notelocking and slider-head window. Whether I have zigzags on the body or not, it won't affect the outcome because only the slider-head, and slider-tail are being factored in.
on my diff, that effect is somewhat alleviated(and could probably be done away with entirely with a well researched implementation). that's why i can pass it, and not the original.
e: in this video, look at how he aims at the fast circular sliders; he's not aiming at the exact end, but a bit further into it. that's a strategy that i think demonstrates what kind of aiming is required to 300 extremely fast sliders like this.
in all cases i'm aware of, the HP drain can only increase because of this, which is also true for the case you just mentioned. i doubt it has an effect on my edit, since i can pass it just fine even if that effect is present here.Monstrata wrote:
You mentioned deleting half of the map. That seriously affects HP drain too though. HP drain is really complex because it also takes into account the entire map's object density, as well as the NC frequency in the map, so removing half of the map already skews the HP drain substantially when comparing it to the full version. (Think of Cookiezi's spinner fail on my Road of Resistance map, except so much of the map was deleted, along with NC rhythms, that the map ended up draining more than it was supposed to. Here the song is shorter, and you've only deleted half, and not 95% so HP drain should be higher than it actually is).
i also can't tell if there's a difference in HP between my practice diff for the original sliders and the full map. either way, i don't think it can be done, which is why i'm suggesting it be changed in the first place.
Have people tried placing their cursor such that you barely hit the sliderhead, but your cursor is further inside the sliderbody on the sliderend side? Also, is the only strat for this basically just mashing as fast as they can? Controlled streaming might work as well as long as you hold down your keys long enough.
Although all that's just speculation; I don't have the ability to playtest right now
Although all that's just speculation; I don't have the ability to playtest right now
this is accurate enough streaming to be unaffected by notelock(i don't have to do any extra taps, i hit the final circle), and i still can't do it
Got home and did some more tests of my own - it's mostly unaffected by framerate (I have maybe one or two extra 300s on 0.7ms vs 4.2ms) and almost definitely impossible - I used relax to ensure notelock didn't happen. Maybe hitting early changes the outcome slightly, but I still doubt it.
HP3.6 seems to be right around the border of possibility - the bar empties right as you hit the next note, so I'm not sure if it's a pass or not. HP3.5 is definitely passable, though.
I'll ask some people higher up in the chain how they feel about this, but I strongly suggest implementing something like in -GN's difficulty; disallowing an entire difficulty-increasing mod is just mean in my opinion.
HP3.6 seems to be right around the border of possibility - the bar empties right as you hit the next note, so I'm not sure if it's a pass or not. HP3.5 is definitely passable, though.
I'll ask some people higher up in the chain how they feel about this, but I strongly suggest implementing something like in -GN's difficulty; disallowing an entire difficulty-increasing mod is just mean in my opinion.
Topic Starter
The GN slider-thing is just not something I want to do . And HP 3.5 is too low for me to feel comfortable with implementing. Play this on nomod please. The entire butterfly animation is lost when you turn on HR and I think that's the highlight of this map. Having it flipped just looks really weird for me. The animation is set up so that the butterfly will spread its wings and appear to fly. That whole effect is lost when you have it upside down. It's not that I don't want this to be passable on HR, but I'm not going to make an exception for it especially since the map takes a huge aesthetic hit when the HR mod is applied.
If you want a challenge, there are plenty of other maps to play where HR doesn't actually mess up the aesthetic value of the map to such a degree.
. And HP 3.5 is too low for me to feel comfortable with implementing. Play this on nomod please. The entire butterfly animation is lost when you turn on HR and I think that's the highlight of this map. Having it flipped just looks really weird for me. The animation is set up so that the butterfly will spread its wings and appear to fly. That whole effect is lost when you have it upside down. It's not that I don't want this to be passable on HR, but I'm not going to make an exception for it especially since the map takes a huge aesthetic hit when the HR mod is applied.If you want a challenge, there are plenty of other maps to play where HR doesn't actually mess up the aesthetic value of the map to such a degree.
why not? it's the perfect compromise here... i want it to be possible to HR the full map, that's all. nobody's gonna think worse of your map just because the butterfly sliders are upside down when played with a difficulty modifier the map wasn't intended for. the effect isn't lost, you can make out it's a butterfly even if it's upside down, there's nothing wrong with it.Monstrata wrote:
The GN slider-thing is just not something I want to do
please apply my slider concept. there's nothing wrong with it.
To be honest, I appreciate the aesthetic value of this map and don't plan on playing it with HR, but the only thing that's gonna change if you don't nerf the HP drain is the fact that your map is going to have lots of HRNF scores instead of HR ones.
Topic Starter
It really looks bad on Auto cuz you end up seeing it vibrating up and down instead of seeing auto just playing through the whole thing. Also its really hard to set up the overlaps (the ones you have are no where near good, sorry). And the sliders look horrible on HR, that's my call as a mapper. It needs to be upright for you to really appreciate the shape. As well, it needs to be expanding upward, not downward.
Sorry, that's my final decision. No HR.
Sorry, that's my final decision. No HR.
If you're playing on unlimited, the breaks do force you back down to your frame limiter. Just gotta eat that though, or set a custom frame limiter high enough that you don't notice the drop (or don't play on unlimited)
On an unrelated note, Millhi, I beat your minesweeper time.
This map is truly amazing
IMO the slider heads (not the tails tho) should have a louder hitsound in the slider spam sections so that the player at least has some sound feedback to keep rhythm. other than that, awesome map and I'm so excited to see something like this qualified
2016, when how the map looks is more important than how the map plays.
And I'm not talking about the "unrankable" things, I know it's an Aspire map
And I'm not talking about the "unrankable" things, I know it's an Aspire map
very, very, very good.
can you actually lower the hp so then you can pass it with hr
one of the rules say "The map must be able to be completed without the NoFail mod required to pass it" and does not limit itself to nomod
sometimes its better to do what the community wants, even when the mapper wants his own way, especially now when it only affects HP and not the actual mapped part of the map
one of the rules say "The map must be able to be completed without the NoFail mod required to pass it" and does not limit itself to nomod
sometimes its better to do what the community wants, even when the mapper wants his own way, especially now when it only affects HP and not the actual mapped part of the map
lol the rule just says that it needs to be passed without nofail mod, there's literally nothing that says it needs to be passable with other mods
Uhm, the rule exactly only says "without the NoFail mod", and doesn't mention any other mods... though admittedly, it'd be cooler if you can use any mod you want to pass the map.idke wrote:
one of the rules say "The map must be able to be completed without the NoFail mod required to pass it" and does not limit itself to nomod
(or did I miss something?)
naw fam
HR can sometimes destroy the concept & thought behind the map. I think this is applicable here.
If Monstrata does not want to change the HP just for that, I feel that you have to respect his choice. You can always edit HP yourself if you want to play HR so bad.
Good job and congrats. You deserved it.
If Monstrata does not want to change the HP just for that, I feel that you have to respect his choice. You can always edit HP yourself if you want to play HR so bad.
Good job and congrats. You deserved it.
I'm with monstrata in this case, the map won for the design and creativity in no mod, while mods are an important thing in game... in this case I think reducing the hp do more bad than good, since HR destroy the visuals of the map o.o.. and considering this is an aspire map, I guess is better to keep the mapper's way.
Generally maps are designed to be played on NoMod, therefore the argument HR doesn't work for this map is invalid. That's why the point "The map must be able to be completed without the NoFail mod required to pass it" is mentioned because that's hilarious if a ranked map can only be played with a score reduce or has a mod requirement to be played properly.
If you're looking for pp or want to challenge yourself with HR Mod, look for another beatmap. This one doesn't suits well.
If you're looking for pp or want to challenge yourself with HR Mod, look for another beatmap. This one doesn't suits well.
izeraoS
.
the point i'm trying my hardest to make is that while it's not a requirement(even though i'd argue it should be), limiting the players because of the HP mechanic is a bullshit thing to do, as it removes an entire way to enjoy the map, and simply limits the challenge of the map for no good reason.Stefan wrote:
Generally maps are designed to be played on NoMod, therefore the argument HR doesn't work for this map is invalid.
i'm terribly sorry for saying this, but you have no basis for this - you're a rank 130k player. you don't get to claim this map isn't well suited for HR. 6 stars is way outside of your ability to judge playability of maps. because that's what you're doing, right?Stefan wrote:
If you're looking for pp or want to challenge yourself with HR Mod, look for another beatmap. This one doesn't suits well.
the map doesn't suddenly flip upside down when you're on nomod if the sliders are altered to allow HR passes, using the concept i illustrated earlier. the intended experience of the map does not change in this case, i just don't think players should be limited in this way.Natsu wrote:
I'm with monstrata in this case, the map won for the design and creativity in no mod, while mods are an important thing in game... in this case I think reducing the hp do more bad than good, since HR destroy the visuals of the map o.o.. and considering this is an aspire map, I guess is better to keep the mapper's way.
it's not the same thing. you should realize this. you remove the possibility of any HR scores reaching the top scores set on the map, an achievement that should (ideally) reflect the effort/ability put into the map by the players.appleeaterx wrote:
If Monstrata does not want to change the HP just for that, I feel that you have to respect his choice. You can always edit HP yourself if you want to play HR so bad.
come on. the strongest reason argued against this is "it looks weird/different when auto plays GN's quickly edited proof of concept", which i should add, can be done in a much more tasteful way if you alter the zigzag to cover a smaller area. is that REALLY all the reason you need to deny me?
Topic Starter
No, the main reason is that I don't want to lower the HP. It's already low enough so that you only need some skill to pass the map. Most people 30k can eventually pass this map. Any lower and there's literally no penalty to messing up any of the elements I've used. If you can just pass everything, theres no challenge to different patterns, and it makes the map less memorable. You are far too high ranked to appreciate slowly getting through different stages of a map in an effort to finally get a run that passes it.
We've said all thats needed to be said about this discussion, and my decision remains clear: HP will not be lowered. Thanks for your concerns though, but I'd appreciate if you didn't go into this discussion expecting a change.
We've said all thats needed to be said about this discussion, and my decision remains clear: HP will not be lowered. Thanks for your concerns though, but I'd appreciate if you didn't go into this discussion expecting a change.
don't tell me you forgot about the slider science already. i'm not talking about HP.
i'm also not "expecting" anything. i'm just trying my damn hardest to convince you your map should be passable on HR.
that's rude. i'll have you know i had trouble passing apparition up until i finally did it yesterday night.Monstrata wrote:
You are far too high ranked to appreciate slowly getting through different stages of a map in an effort to finally get a run that passes it.
i'm also not "expecting" anything. i'm just trying my damn hardest to convince you your map should be passable on HR.
Topic Starter
No, I don't want to implement those sliders. What I have works, and creating those up/down vibration movements is not something I want do implement. Additionally the entire slider thing is extremely hard to implement correctly. You can already see how off your slider-ends are when you look at them in editor, and thats already overlooking how unprecise the nodes are. You can't just zigzag them, they have to be perfectly vertical, or the butterfly body's horizontal vibrations, which simulate it fluttering, are completely covered. Something like this requires .osu editing in order to properly implement, and it additionally would have to be applied to every butterfly slider. Also, it would look really bad anyways because the up/down movement can be seen in editor and on HT. I'm not going to implement it. It's far too tedious and time consuming to implement it just to satisfy a few HR players who won't even be playing the sliders how I wanted them played.
if you can't pass a literal impossible map with a mod, theres no challenge or a point to playing the map. really, there isnt a point to not let someone play a mod that was clearly implemented in the game to give experienced players a bigger challenge, even when it ruins the aesthetic value for a map because lets face it, it ruins the aesthetic value for every single map, and not only do most players not even give a single shit about the looks or beauty of the map, they mostly care about having it be playable. really, changing the hp to 3.5 or so won't make it less memorable, because though passing will be somehow easier, achieving a combo will still be as challengingMonstrata wrote:
If you can just pass everything, theres no challenge to different patterns, and it makes the map less memorable.
^
I don't get why players must go out of their way to convince mostrata that this map needs to be HR-able. Is the standard gamemode having a map deficit? You ran out of things to HR? You keep knocking on a door to a club that will not open for you because it is not for you. I like the concept that certain maps are made for players who enjoy the art for what the map is and not players looking to get a good score on. It gives a bit more color and diversity to the existing ranked maps.
TL;DR: Have some taste
TL;DR: Have some taste