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Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar
ar10 = vomit

no idea why this was chosen...

lower ar's would play much better... as is you have no vision of whats coming so you cant prepare your fingers at all, puts an unneeded amount of focus in reading effort and reaction speed rather than the streaming part. huge disappointment for me cause now I basically have to memorize this to be able to play it well.
silento
298 posts
Joined June 2015
silento

Xexxar wrote:

ar10 = vomit

no idea why this was chosen...

lower ar's would play much better... as is you have no vision of whats coming so you cant prepare your fingers at all, puts an unneeded amount of focus in reading effort and reaction speed rather than the streaming part. huge disappointment for me cause now I basically have to memorize this to be able to play it well.
Are you... serious right now?

This is a song with 200 bpm spaced streams, which get very extremely difficult to read on lower ARs. There are plenty of cases where songs should be at lower ARs when they should, but this is not one of them.
Last edited by silento , edited 1 time in total.
Shiguma
476 posts
Joined May 2014
Shiguma

Xexxar wrote:

ar10 = vomit

no idea why this was chosen...

lower ar's would play much better... as is you have no vision of whats coming so you cant prepare your fingers at all, puts an unneeded amount of focus in reading effort and reaction speed rather than the streaming part. huge disappointment for me cause now I basically have to memorize this to be able to play it well.
Although a lower ar might help with with the focus issue, I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be where you would have to "memorize this" to play it well. There are small pockets of time where you can relax your eyes, you just have to know when to do it, imo.

TheArchist wrote:

Are you... serious right now?

This is a song with 200 bpm spaced streams, which get very extremely to read on lower ARs. There are plenty of cases where songs should be at lower ARs when they should, but this is not one of them.
Spaced streams with a slightly lower ar aren't really an issue in this map, I don't think. Although I don't think ar10 is that big of an issue either.

TheArchist wrote:

get very extremely to read
Extremely what?!?!?
Haruto
1,815 posts
Joined December 2013
Haruto
grats kroytz!!
silento
298 posts
Joined June 2015
silento

Shiguma wrote:

TheArchist wrote:

get very extremely to read
Extremely what?!?!?
... Whoops, meant to say difficult.
Enon
Beatmap Nominator
2,705 posts
Joined November 2012
Enon
nice map
Anxient
1,573 posts
Joined June 2014
Anxient
OMG KROYTZ RANKED SOMETHING
HE ACTUALLY RANKED SOMETHING

jk congratz bruh

@Xexxar: use ar 10 on your eroges. i dare you.
mithew
398 posts
Joined April 2013
mithew
just a couple things i noticed while playing

02:33:892 (7,8,9,10,11,12) - random spacing change, would probably be more fitting starting at 02:33:742 (5) - or 02:34:042 (9) -
03:10:642 (1,2,3,4,5) - looks pretty bad..
04:02:467 (4,5,6) - flow change feels weird here since the last combo doesn't do this (i guess its trying to emphasize on the clap but still doesn't fit imo)
04:39:442 (1) - i definitely liked the old slider way more than this one. the random sharp turns feel so weird to follow since there's nothing in the song that calls for them (at least turn with the slider ticks)

ya best map though

edit: i also agree with xexxar on the AR issue. ar10 feels like... way too much, not like its hard to read on lower AR anyways so nothing really calls for it.
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz

mithew wrote:

just a couple things i noticed while playing

02:33:892 (7,8,9,10,11,12) - random spacing change, would probably be more fitting starting at 02:33:742 (5) - or 02:34:042 (9) - this might be a pretty fair point
03:10:642 (1,2,3,4,5) - looks pretty bad.. subjective. wanted a circular round stream that connects and this is as best as it gets.
04:02:467 (4,5,6) - flow change feels weird here since the last combo doesn't do this (i guess its trying to emphasize on the clap but still doesn't fit imo) its more of a design thing.
04:39:442 (1) - i definitely liked the old slider way more than this one. the random sharp turns feel so weird to follow since there's nothing in the song that calls for them (at least turn with the slider ticks) tbh, I didn't really like my old slider since it's didn't accentuate the keysound nor have any visible attraction (to me at least) either. The double loops were mediocre (and I saw a lot of breaks on them too) and it looked a little too squiggly for me. I wish puush wouldve saved my other artistic sliders cuz I had about 3 of em to choose from, but personally I like the wing since it fits with the "ascending to heaven" theme and the whole ethereal-ness or whatnot.

ya best map though

edit: i also agree with xexxar on the AR issue. ar10 feels like... way too much, not like its hard to read on lower AR anyways so nothing really calls for it. I'll disagree with the AR since a lot of players have pointed to me that higher AR would fit the map best as to reduce clutter on the screen. Not to mention that this is a 7.41* map and should be taken with caution. 9.8 might be as low as it can get but AR10 fits the theme of it more as well. This is the gateway to heaven, the final moment, do or die, etc.
Avena
2,158 posts
Joined December 2012
Avena
J U S T A M O D
Since we know eachother Kroytz, I will use slightly vulgar terms.
First thing's first, the soft claps don't fit on the most part of the map, they usually just sound like someone smacking a table that is filled with mayo.
Second, I agree with the previous comments about the AR, it's a bit too much honestly.

  1. 00:55:867 (6) - For the most part you use an additional sample with the piano so there is more impact on it, but here you didn't do so, making this note essentially inaudible and have no actual feedback. This issue reoccurs VERY often in the map but I won't point all instances.
  2. 01:21:442 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - This is a bit odd to play, the jumps don't feel so natural since the flow is linear, making the way you aim your mouse/pen really strange considering the flow is the same but you need to keep changing speed constantly while streaming, Also, nothing in the song justifies these jumps, I'd suggest you to just make a constant stream here. Also, the interaction between these 01:22:642 (1) - Feels a bit wrong considering the fact that you need to suddenly move REALLY slowly even though the flow doesn't break or anything like that, making it very likely that a person will play as if the slider is much faster.
  3. 02:52:492 (15) - This slider leads the player towards the wrong direction, whether you use it as a circular motion based thing 02:51:292 (15) - or just linear flow, it doesn't work at both ways, i'd suggest you make this slider point towards the next stream. This issue reoccurs often in the map but I won't point all instances.
  4. 02:54:142 (5) - I can't find any reason to break the flow here, this is a consistent sound and it only breaks at 02:54:442 (9) - if anything.
  5. 03:08:317 (2) - 03:14:992 (11) - More instances of unjustified flow breaks.
  6. 03:21:442 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - Let alone the hitsounding issues I have pointed previously which makes this a bit awkward as for feedback, I'm not sure a stream such as this will fit here. First thing, it's followed by a very slow slider, making it a bit awkward to control when it comes to your movement. Second thing, at this intensity and bpm, a stream that spaces so hard could be a bit of an overkill. I'd recommend you to make a slider pattern, maybe such as this one: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5309879
  7. 04:02:542 (5) - As pointed on the post above me, this isn't comfortable to play.
  8. 04:09:442 (1,2) - This turn doesn't make sense to me, Why'd you put it on the blue tick anyways?
  9. 04:38:242 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - Yet again, I'm not sure if SUCH intense pattern would work and play well, I'd suggest a slider pattern here too.
  10. 04:58:624 (11,12,13,14,1) - Controversial, but I guess it makes sense.
  11. 05:00:730 - A spinner (Which is an intense and rapid motion) doesn't fit a really soothing fadeout, Maybe instead put a slow slider (As I can see you don't have a problem with these) that ends at 05:04:315 - ?
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz
Priti

Priti wrote:

J U S T A M O D
Since we know eachother Kroytz, I will use slightly vulgar terms.
First thing's first, the soft claps don't fit on the most part of the map, they usually just sound like someone smacking a table that is filled with mayo.
Second, I agree with the previous comments about the AR, it's a bit too much honestly. I'll continue to disagree with the AR (idk why this seems to be an issue now since it was never an issue before, in fact, it was praised for the ar to be at 10). As for the claps, as I've told you in PM, I'd need to replicate a single clap times however many unique sounds that use them. When I brought this up before with a couple nominators, they suggested I don't do that.

  1. 00:55:867 (6) - For the most part you use an additional sample with the piano so there is more impact on it, but here you didn't do so, making this note essentially inaudible and have no actual feedback. This issue reoccurs VERY often in the map but I won't point all instances. It probably reoccurs so many times because xi didn't compose this song to follow a boring AABB styled format. Piano's are accentuated in different places, my additions follow his weirdly distributed drum patterns and if they happen to hit at the same time then cool, if they missed each other, then cool. You have a yolo-styled piano with a patternized drum mix, things are bound to be inconsistent whether you like it or not. If what youre reffering to is the whistle, then it's because i chose to whistle on 1's for this section
  2. 01:21:442 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - This is a bit odd to play, the jumps don't feel so natural since the flow is linear, making the way you aim your mouse/pen really strange considering the flow is the same but you need to keep changing speed constantly while streaming, Also, nothing in the song justifies these jumps, I'd suggest you to just make a constant stream here. Also, the interaction between these 01:22:642 (1) - Feels a bit wrong considering the fact that you need to suddenly move REALLY slowly even though the flow doesn't break or anything like that, making it very likely that a person will play as if the slider is much faster. My justification for these jumps was because it's the climax of the section for the dreadfully slow part. The arpeggio follows a 1,2,3,4 -> 2,3,4,5 -> 3,4,5,6 -> 4,5,6,7 pattern and as you can tell, there are four sections of four beats hence why I broke each 4 circles into their respective part. As far as the slider is concerned, nobody has ever broken on that. For a more sound explanation, the first tick will always be hit regardless if you happen to move a bit faster than expected, it's the 2nd tick that players (who are even able to reach up to this point fairly) will realize its slow and have the loop part of it to change their speed.
  3. 02:52:492 (15) - This slider leads the player towards the wrong direction, whether you use it as a circular motion based thing 02:51:292 (15) - or just linear flow, it doesn't work at both ways, i'd suggest you make this slider point towards the next stream. This issue reoccurs often in the map but I won't point all instances. Not all the time do the sliders face in the direction of the next stream because that's how you make a map painfully boring. With the linear flow as done here 02:59:692 (15,1) - it works nice and looks pretty g. The kicks are intended to act as a break/transition to further progrees sections the song, and as always, interpretation will be subjective. I can't tell if you have ever tried to play this map or if youre even capable of deathstreaming to this extent but all I do is deathstream and as a personal testimony, I can pass these sections without the feeling of it being awkward. Notable deathstreamers as well don't screw these parts up either. While the map screams stamina, I personally believe it calls for aim. Stamina is a prerequisite.
  4. 02:54:142 (5) - I can't find any reason to break the flow here, this is a consistent sound and it only breaks at 02:54:442 (9) - if anything. You can hear the low note on this. Whats interesting about this song is you can split up virtually most of it rhythmically through 4s or 9s or by what a lot of other maps do and go by interpretation or design.
  5. 03:08:317 (2) - 03:14:992 (11) - More instances of unjustified flow breaks. The (2) has a obvious low note and (11) is design.
  6. 03:21:442 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - Let alone the hitsounding issues I have pointed previously which makes this a bit awkward as for feedback, I'm not sure a stream such as this will fit here. First thing, it's followed by a very slow slider, making it a bit awkward to control when it comes to your movement. Second thing, at this intensity and bpm, a stream that spaces so hard could be a bit of an overkill. I'd recommend you to make a slider pattern, maybe such as this one: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5309879 If you've seen the original beta-Ascension I had from last year, the sliders were even slower than this and unfitting. This is plenty fast. Any faster and the slider just goes zippity-zoo and doesn't match with the slow-ness of the violin in this part. As for the kick sliders, its a nice suggestion but kick slider patterns are far easier to hit than accelerating streams. My intent was to bring a bigger climax at the end, which explains the stream. With sliders, it feels slightly underwhelming unless I space them out across the map all over in which they case might feel a bit overwhelming. This isn't an issue but rather just a preference to your liking.
  7. 04:02:542 (5) - As pointed on the post above me, this isn't comfortable to play. I'm sorry dude but with all the respect, can you even play this map?
  8. 04:09:442 (1,2) - This turn doesn't make sense to me, Why'd you put it on the blue tick anyways? As I mentioned before, there's an audible low beat here that can be kink'ed as I did. i n t e r p r e t a t i o n
  9. 04:38:242 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - Yet again, I'm not sure if SUCH intense pattern would work and play well, I'd suggest a slider pattern here too. My reasoning before stays. I prefer the wing cuz i like it. Ive had other sliders before, the previous qualified one was meh to me. Didn't have a good balance in the center of it (but its not like youd remember cuz youve never seen this map before). Ive made about 3 other artsy sliders but the wing holds most as a finisher because "ascended" ooh 3spooky5me.
  10. 04:58:624 (11,12,13,14,1) - Controversial, but I guess it makes sense. makes sense
  11. 05:00:730 - A spinner (Which is an intense and rapid motion) doesn't fit a really soothing fadeout, Maybe instead put a slow slider (As I can see you don't have a problem with these) that ends at 05:04:315 - ? If a spinner is an "intense" (lol) and "rapid motion" (lel) to you, then i don't even wanna talk about this. Many maps utilize their spinners for a variety of situations. Sure I could make a slower slider, but then I wouldn't get the effect of the ending accelerating stream from the last combo. You don't even need to spin this one fast to clear it because it's so long.
ily2 Priti I really don't, but let's just say I do :^)

lul
Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar

TheArchist wrote:

Xexxar wrote:

ar10 = vomit

no idea why this was chosen...

lower ar's would play much better... as is you have no vision of whats coming so you cant prepare your fingers at all, puts an unneeded amount of focus in reading effort and reaction speed rather than the streaming part. huge disappointment for me cause now I basically have to memorize this to be able to play it well.
Are you... serious right now?

This is a song with 200 bpm spaced streams, which get very extremely difficult to read on lower ARs. There are plenty of cases where songs should be at lower ARs when they should, but this is not one of them.
? Im not saying most players have to memorize it. I was saying I would have to.

Regardless realize that Time Freeze is AR10. However its 240 bpm vs 200. Blue Zenith is AR 9.6 with 200 bpm.

I dont see how you can claim that this map is "extremely difficult to read on lower ARs". It's pretty much exactly as spaced as those two previously mentioned maps. Only difference is one (overspaced) pattern 04:38:317 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - which literally jacks up the star rating from 6.96 to 7.41

[Final Moment]

Honestly one concern I have for this map is how notes like 01:05:092 (7,8,9,10) - while i love this kind of keysounding and what not, it seems strange from play perspective because the hitsound sounds identical to the song. As such its very jarring to go from clearly audible hitsounds to phantom hitsounds that offer little feedback (in a stream map such as this rhythmic feedback is an absolute must). I believe these notes would have been much more appropriate as hitwhistles so that the keysounding is additive rather than the hitnormal. Just my two cents.

00:08:242 (1) - Uneven blanket.
00:17:842 (1) - Uneven blanket.
00:22:642 (1) - Uneven blanket (Not sure if you're doing these intentionally, but given how little they're off it seems like lack of polishing versus anything else.
00:24:292 (2) - Curious what made you choose to do a slider here versus two circles. Play could be improved with two circles or a 1/4th slider so that 00:24:442 - is clickable as the start of the crescendo
00:42:592 (1,2,3,4,1) - Consider rotating 1 by 4 degrees in order to make it so that the slider is colinear with the 4 notes that follow
02:00:092 (1,2,3,4,5) - What is this snapped to? This does not sound correct. It should be on the 1/8th yellow tick. Not 1/6th. (also this star is imperfect. Consider adjusting.)

otherwise the map is really solid... i still cry regarding AR 10 but if you want to make that choice it's up to you...
Last edited by Xexxar , edited 1 time in total.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,317 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
As the community has risen their voice, I've decided to take this down after checking the mentioned points. Also take special care of the unsnapped note at 02:00:104 (1,2,3,4,5) -

Good luck.
SnowNiNo_
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
2,108 posts
Joined April 2013
SnowNiNo_
awww DQ, sad ;w;
Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar

SnowNiNo_ wrote:

awww DQ, sad ;w;
sorry
Enon
Beatmap Nominator
2,705 posts
Joined November 2012
Enon
so many complain
Arzenvald
4,062 posts
Joined July 2013
Arzenvald
wud didn't see this coming tbh... good luck on requalification! :D
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz
sb coming in
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team
4,999 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
see ya in 2017?
wendao
1,638 posts
Joined August 2012
wendao
http://puu.sh/pgtST.zip imho it's pretty much better to include default hitnormal than not
-rage
425 posts
Joined August 2013
-rage

Okorin wrote:

see ya in 2017?
Hula
581 posts
Joined January 2013
Hula
well, good luck.

Make sure you guys don't look at DQ as being a bad thing. =]
SnowNiNo_
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
2,108 posts
Joined April 2013
SnowNiNo_
DQ is a good thing, cuz itll improve your map :3
and you can always get some free NM
Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar

wendao wrote:

http://puu.sh/pgtST.zip imho it's pretty much better to include default hitnormal than not
wow thats a very good idea and you did all the editing for him.

nice!
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,575 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi

Kroytz wrote:

sb coming in
rip XD
Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar

Nozhomi wrote:

Kroytz wrote:

sb coming in
rip XD
edit: 200th post for 200th bpm
Fezu
41 posts
Joined November 2012
Fezu
Guess it's time to bring out the Storyboard
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz
Anyways, these are the changes that have been made:

  1. soft-sliderslide42 has been removed because as Yuii- mentioned, it was a tiny error leaving that one in when completely unused. Now the mapset has an extra 44 bytes to use :3
  2. 00:05:842 (1) - to 00:22:642 (1) - have been remapped to have cleaner more structured sliders. SV changes were upped a bit and slidertick volumes went down a bit.
  3. 00:42:592 (1) - Xexxar did some reddit-level math and found that this absolutely 100% needed to be rotated by 3 degrees.
  4. 02:00:123 (1,2,3,4,5) - The snapping has been "fixed" here. With the help of Charles, Xexxar, and a good 1-2 hours of our time, we managed to find a good spot for these notes. Basically we slid them over by 2/16 and somehow it works.
  5. 02:33:442 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - Has been changed to make an accent on the (9). credits to mithew for finding this.
  6. 02:39:742 (3) - slider-end volume reduced to 40% because the hitsound was quite loud there.
  7. 04:53:866 (1) - Fixed a bit of the curve on this.
The things that weren't changed were explained either on the forums multiple times, or in PM to the users who messaged me their concerns regarding more or less the same stuff.
I should also mention, you guys are spending way too much time trying to nitpick these hitsounds (not you wendao, that was actually a good suggestion). Just disable them if you want to have a good chance at top-scoring or clearing. For the 99.9% of players who can't do neither, at least you can enjoy the melodic sounds of piano.
Also, since Xexxar's previous post is exempt of KD, can I just KD his recent post?
Last edited by Kroytz , edited 1 time in total.
Captain Teemo
58 posts
Joined December 2013
Captain Teemo
what about the AR10? #WeWantAR9.7
sahuang
2,294 posts
Joined December 2014
sahuang
I agree that ar 10 is bit too high here for this bpm, 9.6-9.8 would fit it very much.
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz
Look, I'm not sure who's been here the first time it was qualified to where it is now but the time it was first qualified (circa November 2015) the general consensus among the majority of players/spectators/mappers during that time was that a higher AR (higher in this sense would be above 9.5) is best suited in this case as to prevent clutter on the screen. So that gives us a few numbers to work with right; AR 9.5 is the slow end of the optimal AR spectrum and 10 would be the fastest end of it.
Now I've talked to many players ranging from single digits to 5 digits and received a lot of feedback regarding the AR and (un)surprisingly, the optimal AR varied completely. Some users within the top 100 couldn't even read AR10 whereas 4-5 digit players could. Somehow, top players couldn't even get through the first minute of the map (yet they can HDDT 10.3 maps with 99%+ amirite). From the many playtesters, I've only received about a dozen comments regarding the AR. A good half stating the higher AR feels good and the other half saying otherwise, maybe tone it down .2. or .3. But I feel as though the optimal AR for this particular map in its difficulty range is so subjective that it comes down to whether or not you're capable of reading it to begin with. If you can deathstream 200 bpm for 5 minutes straight, reading AR10 shouldn't be a problem.
Enon
Beatmap Nominator
2,705 posts
Joined November 2012
Enon
AR10 is slow (=_=)

10.3 is better thank you kudosu pls(joke)
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly
I have no clue whats wrong with BNs heads but right now AR 10 on 7 star maps its NORMAL (even 8 star maps)

Dont make me critisize it yet but this is reminding me of Big Black with their controversial attempts of deranking. On top of that lets talk about this map for example. 7.4 stars of ~7 minutes massacre turned into the pp machine and this is where the big problem started. Heres the quote from Yuii-

Yuii- wrote:

Why hello there

You are ruining CtB, koliron!!!!!!
Someone stop this map from getting played. This is a pp map!!!!!

Jesus. Since when a pp map is bad? If a map gives a shit ton of performance points means the map should not be ranked because it's bad? I blame a lot of people who actually started talking about this, seriously.
Now when everything is said the problem is that the patterns are always follows to the difficulty witch it will be higher.

E.g.: Harder jumps?? - Difficulty level up
More deathstreams and spaced streams?? - Difficulty level up
Is your AR is 10?? - Spend more times for modding then
Congraturations, your map will be harder to rank it, rebubble and nuke it. Welcome to the Ranking Criteria!

This is NOT like something it will never be ranked, loser! It's not. This map fits to the song and hitsounds are outstanding and on top of that the latest ranked map is from 2011 (short version)... But no storyboard? NOPE DISQUALLIFIED

This is bullshit depending that it requiers a storyboard for this map. Now im still thinking to make a storyboard but thats my choice after all.

So sad for that hype... So sad...

P.S.

randomizer89 wrote:

if map get tooo many pp... it's system problem of pp, not map problem.
P.S.S broken english inc. Kappa
Natsu
8,088 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu

Nelly wrote:

I have no clue whats wrong with BNs heads but right now AR 10 on 7 star maps its NORMAL (even 8 star maps)
Star rating is broken and have nothing to do with the AR in a difficulty (I didn't check the difficulty, but using SR for judge things is wrong).
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,575 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi
Tbh I think AR10 is k, since the rhythm is sometimes tricky (as start for example) and the object density is way enough high to keep it.
I have no more conplain with the map. Fixes looks k.

Let's try again ?
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly

Nozhomi wrote:

Tbh I think AR10 is k, since the rhythm is sometimes tricky (as start for example) and the object density is way enough high to keep it.
I have no more conplain with the map. Fixes looks k.

Let's try again ?

Asphyxia wrote:

Disqualified on mappers' request, there will be a storyboard.
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,575 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi

Nelly wrote:

Disqualified on mappers' request, there will be a storyboard.
Nice meme :>
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz

Nelly wrote:

Disqualified on mappers' request, there will be a storyboard.
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly

Kroytz wrote:

:<
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg


Yuii-
2,501 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-
There's no delay on the hitsounds, I checked them.

@Kroytz: Read my post again, please. I told you to delete the 41th, not the 42th. Fix and call me back for the rebub #1.
Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar
It's not whether or not the map's star rating deserves the approach rate, it's whether the object density that results from the bpm of the song needs to be that low.

As I mentioned, this map is the exact same BPM as Blue Zenith, only difference in difficulty results from 2 patterns that occur at the end of the kiai's.

AR10 here really seems tacked on because the object density does not need to be the minimum possible based on the BPM. Very few songs that are mapped at 200 BPM are AR10, and just because the difficulty of this map is high does not mean that it needs to be AR10. It is perfectly readable at lower ARs and the lower ARs, I believe, fit the intensity of the song much better than AR10.
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
diraimur
I personally don't really have an issue with this map being ar10, because a person who is capable of playing this map should be probably able to read ar10 anyway. Admittedly, this doesn't mean ar used is justified. However for such map, I highly believe its subjective and it could be anything from 9 to 10. I would personally use ar9.8.

also increase od by 0.1 kds pls
/me rusn

01:21:442 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - i feel like spacings should be like 01:21:742 (1,2,3,4) - > 01:21:442 (1,2,3,4) - > 01:22:042 (1,2,3,4) - > 01:22:342 (1,2,3,4) - , however you kept increasing spacings. though its kinda controversial since one can claim its for build up or sth w/e

also jump on 02:20:092 (15,1) - might be kinda harsh since your movement 02:19:042 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - here is pretty slow and then you suddenly have to move your cursor half the screen.
Last edited by diraimur , edited 2 times in total.
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,575 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi

I didn't saw any unused file when I checked with tool :/ weird
And yes I redled the map before check it !
Last edited by Nozhomi , edited 1 time in total.
Shiguma
476 posts
Joined May 2014
Shiguma
My AR style make objective sense not your sense. /s

But why does this have to be identical to Blue Xenith? 9.5-10 range works, I would expect someone playing this to be able to read ar10
mithew
398 posts
Joined April 2013
mithew

Shiguma wrote:

But why does this have to be identical to Blue Xenith? 9.5-10 range works, I would expect someone playing this to be able to read ar10
i don't think being able to read it as ar10 is the issue here

i can read it and play it perfectly fine and i'll still say that ar9.7 would fit the map way more
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz
@Yuii-: I had realized that just a bit too late ;^;

@Xexxar: Stop crying and l2p AR10. Your attitude towards me about the AR has been nothing but whining. If the BPM is the deciding factor as to what determines a map's AR, then that's quite a poor argument considering there are a couple of "low-bpm" maps utilizing AR10. If your next argument is,"Oh but those maps are mapped in 1/3 hurr hurr so it's technically 200+bpm" then surely it's not the bpm of the song but the way in which its mapped. The map is perfectly readable at lower ARs, and the map is perfectly readable at AR 10, your argument is just as subjective as the players who are able to read 10.

@to everyone else: This is sort of how it looked like before, during the time it was qualified in November: with a few agreements/disagreements on the AR. The only difference is simply due to the fact that it would've been ranked with AR10, and have been accepted perfectly fine without complaints had I not DQ'd. Not to say "I could've gone away with it then" but what I'm saying follows more along the lines of, "it was perfectly acceptable then, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be acceptable now". For what it seems like, it's that everyone just has their preference as to what is "optimal" and that will be an opinion that varies from player-to-player or mapper-to-mapper.
Xexxar
913 posts
Joined June 2013
Xexxar

Kroytz wrote:

@Xexxar: Stop crying and l2p AR10. Your attitude towards me about the AR has been nothing but whining. If the BPM is the deciding factor as to what determines a map's AR, then that's quite a poor argument considering there are a couple of "low-bpm" maps utilizing AR10. If your next argument is,"Oh but those maps are mapped in 1/3 hurr hurr so it's technically 200+bpm" then surely it's not the bpm of the song but the way in which its mapped. The map is perfectly readable at lower ARs, and the map is perfectly readable at AR 10, your argument is just as subjective as the players who are able to read 10.
i'll qq all i want
Yuii-
2,501 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-
Don't worry, I always backup hitsounds.

soft-sliderslide42.wav in case you need it: http://puu.sh/phgkr/13b04ac5fd.wav
chainpullz
2,335 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
My take on the AR is that the higher AR fits the deathstream sections better whereas slightly lower ar fits the more technical sections better (ie. 00:25:042 - 00:43:042 ). A bit of a tradeoff between tracking ability and reading ability. Thus you'll probably get different responses based on the particular person's skillset.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
yo you're gonna compete with tengaku pls dont
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz

Yuii- wrote:

Don't worry, I always backup hitsounds.

soft-sliderslide42.wav in case you need it: http://puu.sh/phgkr/13b04ac5fd.wav
Didn't need 42 nor 41, just 40. Both of them were deleted.
Xinely
5,014 posts
Joined April 2012
Xinely
#2
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly
Karen?
Karen
2,873 posts
Joined August 2013
Karen
??
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly
Nevermind
Cellina
1,004 posts
Joined March 2013
Cellina
gratz
Nozhomi
Global Moderator
4,575 posts
Joined May 2013
Nozhomi
wb
sahuang
2,294 posts
Joined December 2014
sahuang
#another round
SnowNiNo_
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
2,108 posts
Joined April 2013
SnowNiNo_
nice :)
Battle
2,865 posts
Joined February 2014
Battle
nelly post near nely wao

gz
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly

Battle wrote:

nelly post near nely wao

gz
What
sahuang
2,294 posts
Joined December 2014
sahuang

Nelly wrote:

Battle wrote:

nelly post near nely wao

gz
What
nely=xinely lmao
Kyouren
5,690 posts
Joined October 2012
Kyouren
Regratzz >w<b
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly
But seriously this should be ranked right now. Please osu! staffs
Fezu
41 posts
Joined November 2012
Fezu
What the staff should do right now is include a rule that all maps over 5 minutes long needs a storyboard. :^)
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly

Fezu wrote:

What the staff should do right now is include a rule that all maps over 5 minutes long needs a storyboard. :^)
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz

Fezu wrote:

What the staff should do right now is include a rule that all maps over 5 minutes long needs a storyboard. :^)
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly
Peppe memes = best memes
Side
1,127 posts
Joined October 2013
Side
woo gratz kreuz :v

that piano freestyle is always gonna trigger me though and I hate you for it :^)
Enon
Beatmap Nominator
2,705 posts
Joined November 2012
Enon
i hope no more complains
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly

Enon wrote:

i hope no more complains
Who knows
ComfyWolf
181 posts
Joined April 2015
ComfyWolf
Glad to see this back. I was about to jump in and just storyboard for you since it seemed like you were taking forever to wait for Cl8n (or whoever took over I don't remember).

GOOD LUCK! :D
Asphyxia
Beatmap Nominator
2,003 posts
Joined June 2012
Asphyxia

ComfyWolf wrote:

Glad to see this back. I was about to jump in and just storyboard for you since it seemed like you were taking forever to wait for Cl8n (or whoever took over I don't remember).
Disqualified on mappers' request, there will be a storyboard.


On a serious note, congrats! =w=b
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,536 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly

Asphyxia wrote:

Disqualified on mappers' request, there will be a storyboard.
Kappa
Axon
285 posts
Joined July 2015
Axon
Good luck Kroytz :)
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
ar 9.8 :(


kappa xd
Xinely
5,014 posts
Joined April 2012
Xinely

Battle wrote:

nelly post near nely wao

gz

lmao
-Kanzaki
889 posts
Joined June 2012
-Kanzaki
is it only me think ar and od is too high than it should be?

there arent much objects overlapping, stacking or challenging to read so ar 10 is too high imo, i would say 9.5 even could work.

this od on overspaced streams is extremely hard i don't know is there any specific reason to be 9.4 od ?
Fezu
41 posts
Joined November 2012
Fezu
Yeah, I agree with the issues you've covered. I think we should decrease both a little bit. Hopefully someone else will come point out after it gets requalified again that the OD and AR needs to be lowered again.

Though I honestly think the fact that this map doesn't have a storyboard is a crime of itself worthy of another DQ to be honest.

/s

It's funny though for a map that almost got ranked first time around (1 day before getting checkover from QAT and ranked) has suddenly severe issues with main components of the map and its' readability.

None which were voiced in the initial qualified process. At least not in this very thread. (What happened online during the qualification, I have no idea)

Here's Kroytz response to the AR issue:

Kroytz wrote:

@Xexxar: Stop crying and l2p AR10. Your attitude towards me about the AR has been nothing but whining. If the BPM is the deciding factor as to what determines a map's AR, then that's quite a poor argument considering there are a couple of "low-bpm" maps utilizing AR10. If your next argument is,"Oh but those maps are mapped in 1/3 hurr hurr so it's technically 200+bpm" then surely it's not the bpm of the song but the way in which its mapped. The map is perfectly readable at lower ARs, and the map is perfectly readable at AR 10, your argument is just as subjective as the players who are able to read 10.

@to everyone else: This is sort of how it looked like before, during the time it was qualified in November: with a few agreements/disagreements on the AR. The only difference is simply due to the fact that it would've been ranked with AR10, and have been accepted perfectly fine without complaints had I not DQ'd. Not to say "I could've gone away with it then" but what I'm saying follows more along the lines of, "it was perfectly acceptable then, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be acceptable now". For what it seems like, it's that everyone just has their preference as to what is "optimal" and that will be an opinion that varies from player-to-player or mapper-to-mapper.

Kroytz wrote:

Look, I'm not sure who's been here the first time it was qualified to where it is now but the time it was first qualified (circa November 2015) the general consensus among the majority of players/spectators/mappers during that time was that a higher AR (higher in this sense would be above 9.5) is best suited in this case as to prevent clutter on the screen. So that gives us a few numbers to work with right; AR 9.5 is the slow end of the optimal AR spectrum and 10 would be the fastest end of it.
Now I've talked to many players ranging from single digits to 5 digits and received a lot of feedback regarding the AR and (un)surprisingly, the optimal AR varied completely. Some users within the top 100 couldn't even read AR10 whereas 4-5 digit players could. Somehow, top players couldn't even get through the first minute of the map (yet they can HDDT 10.3 maps with 99%+ amirite). From the many playtesters, I've only received about a dozen comments regarding the AR. A good half stating the higher AR feels good and the other half saying otherwise, maybe tone it down .2. or .3. But I feel as though the optimal AR for this particular map in its difficulty range is so subjective that it comes down to whether or not you're capable of reading it to begin with. If you can deathstream 200 bpm for 5 minutes straight, reading AR10 shouldn't be a problem.
On the first page you can find the reasoning for why it's OD 9, why it's 9,4 however you'd have to wait to know until Kryotz decides to address your issue.

Kroytz wrote:

OD 10 is too OP for me to use. OD9 is good enough to prevent note locking a lot. Anything lower, you'd get the whole x1 miss and you die Freedom Dive thing.

It's interesting though that Xexxar explained that it wasn't possible to read the map properly, without memorization while -Kanzaki finds the map too easy and that the AR10 is unnecessary in fixing overlapping as Kroytz referred to in his reasons for using AR10. Which is a legitimate criticism, if it doesn't fix what it's intended to do why have it? Why not reduce it and make both sides happy?

Then again I feel complaints like these where it comes down to number tweaking, it can get really tedious. Because in the end it starts coming down to preference and there will be vocal people on each side of the coin. Especially since it isn't a map change, but something regarding the playability of the entire map. Which can be hard for some to adjust to quickly, compared to a map change.

Though, in my opinion. Honestly I don't see the need to change if it has been this way since it initially got qualified and no one batted an eye since then. Well, until now.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
I'd have preferred AR9.6 or 9.8 personally to fit the map as a whole, but I can respect AR10 as well. It's the final difficulty setting for the final moment (as Kroytz mentioned) and the high AR really helps aim the super duper spaced murder streams at the very end. Besides, this map's target audience doesn't have any issues reading ar10 anyhow.
[D i r e]
[D i r e]
Oh waow, another AtH approved. Gratz fam.
Faust
osu! Alumni
4,785 posts
Joined January 2009
Faust
Hail Lord Helix.

Fezu
41 posts
Joined November 2012
Fezu
Final day.

Any chance of a selfDQ for that storyboard, Kryotz?

Congratulations Kroytz, looking forward to your next ranked map :)
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz
We did it! \:D/
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
gj
DeletedUser_4329079
DeletedUser_4329079
grats
Kayla
259 posts
Joined August 2013
Kayla
nice map. il never be able to do it.
wish it was more than one big stream but xi map, i guess. you manage to make one gigantic stream play and look nice. (if i could play it)

i also have a feeling were in for another 700pp score.
Kyptoric
201 posts
Joined January 2012
Kyptoric
Probably the best hitsounding I've seen in a map, ever
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