. Seem other opinions are useless so removing screenshots.
show more
Anyways Yales is doing something at the 1/3 part, lets hope this can be resolved sooner
I'll edit this with some suggestion for that part.
After that, I, at least, tried to make something with those 1/3. But first off, even if the beats are 1/3 I still think there's a drumroll behind. Like, I'm sorry but it's not crystal-clear it's 1/3. When I hear sounds like 02:25:467 (5) - it's not in my 1/3 mapping dictionary. Then the melody is sticked on 1/2 02:25:601 (7) - . So unless you want to burst some 336 bpm... Oh I could add reverse but it would feel way too slow compared to the whole pacing, and here comes the last point which is a sum up of all those points: The fact that the music isn't obvious 1/3, the fact it's right at the middle of a stream section it makes those 1/3 totally awakward to play and totally breaks the flow of the whole section as they are totally unexpected. And I mean... it fits to me and I'm not like the only one who will agree with that sooo I don't get why I have to change it as it isn't obvious and actually help the player in the process.
Natsu if you can bring some suggestions it'll be with pleasure I'll check them, but meanwhile I'm fine with its current state.
http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...
generally a rule of thumb is to start a stance shift with sliders/repeat sliders so that the player doesn't get suddenly thrown off by going from 1/4 to 1/3, especially in a fast map like this in the middle of stream (not sure how much good this will do in scorev2 tho lol)
since the 1/3 is hard to hear, I'd suggest following the synths as I did, since they are more audible than the 1/3 while playing. Try it out and see what you think, good luck regardless!
I tried your suggestion but as I pointed out there's a few things that bother me a little bit. It was the MOST intense part of the whole map. Understand that putting 1/3 slider reverse after that feels a bit empty.
"Since 1/3 is hard to hear" ... Ya well I don't even want to put those 1/3 so why shall I even make something to prepare the player for it? If you think it needs DQ cause it so obvious the snapping is wrong I'm gonna put some REAL 1/3. No excuse. (Shiirn and Bonsai clearly told me that players' opinion doesn't matter anyway... you made a nice catch there lol).
On the other hand seems someone could edit MP3... :3 Xexxar <3 (for what it's worth ... I mean CB agree it's 1/3 but also agree 1/4 fits better...)
, since any defense to them will be subjective as well, so the comparison is almost the same.
Anyways Yales, I think using 1/3 sliders jump is the best option you have, is just a tiny section of your map, so I guess making it a bit more comfortable for players will be nice (If you need a bit help with timeline catch me in game), anyways take sometime to think calm about it.
What no, the 1/6 is not comparable as a substitute to 1/3 at all. What logic are you applying here? If you wanted to prove me wrong, use 1/3..
You're trying to make excuses for a clear error and undermine it by hinting that the guy who found it did so to mess with you? I mean even if that is the case, wouldn't you be happy that he helped improve your map by finding it? I myself have found errors in my own ranked map and wish someone would've found them in time thinking back, because now I regret it.
If you want to edit it go ahead, I'm sure nobody will mind, but the fact that you keep defending it in every way you can while all of us here knows there's an objective error in the map is a bit silly to me.
I don't try to make excuses, I'm giving arugments (which follows the ones of Desperate-kun imo).
And for the reasons I said, I don't think that 1/3 here is going to help my map to improve, that's the whole problem of this point for me (and I'm not the only one saying that 1/4 actually fits better). Otherwise I would have changed it right away.
Not sure to get your last point (and the fact that I really don't see a problem here neither doesn't help :c) I mean if I would change it, following my own logic which is to map the stream on the long drums would be to do something like this http://puu.sh/nHzZ7/c40cf5b3f4.jpg but then I don't find it really natural to play cause it doesn't go along with the vocal as well. I think those triples are "preparing the ground" good enough. Also I think that pattern like 02:25:180 (1,2,1,2) - is really intense the way it is, no really need to slow down before to give more impact to it.
But.. Did you delete and redownload the map? It doesn't seem we have the same offset. I tried to check each of your point but I can't really see what you were talking about because of that 
Anyways, it's always really cool to see that people still support me on this "Omoi trilogy" ^^
I didn't give up on this yet and got the confirmation yesterday that the staff didn't neither!
So nope, nothing seems to happen here. I just uped the thread to not let it go in graveyard just in case.
The thing is the map is ready the way it is to me. There's no point to me to keep working on it as a few people told me to do so. ("I'm sure there's more that can be worked out.") I disagree with it, and I won't change stuff just to make some people happy. You could say I'm a blockhead or whatever but I spent enough time on this in a way that it feels ready to me to allow myself to act this way about it.
I mean...this is clearly not fun to me x)
PS: Changed 2 points from Okorin's mod XD
Anyways, here some adjustements/conclusions I made by following your points.
PS: I said it would also be a depressed post:
Ya, I have the time to see the slider behind, for sure.
About your second point I think it would sound really bad and out of place ! x.x
Extra diff: 00:02:680 - just curious why there aren't any circles here and on the next white beat
edit: disregard this
the "home stretch" is EXACTLY when maps are supposed to come under the most scrutiny and attention from modders
its not like "haha yes im going to wait until the 6th day of qualification and post a huge mod calling his map shit xdddddd", because realistically no one is like that (i hope)
Anyways, this was just a really, really small detail in my answer. And it's nothing to make a huge deal of.
Whether something is overmapped or not is not a subjective question, either there is a beat there or not. Whether it feels good to have something mapped there is an entirely different thing, and players without any knowledge of mapping will find the most stupid maps good as long as they are playable (not saying your map is stupid, just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything)
I like how you're bringing "If you map could fit in other songs with the same BPM, then your map is bad" when you are literally overmapping tons of stuff just to make it exciting to play. Your triplets and streams would fit in any other song just as well simply because they aren't even existing in this song in the first place.
"I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music." Yeah right, that's why I'm pointing out overmaps. ok
I know what you want to represent with those sliders and other overmaps of all sorts, I just think that overmapping is a very bad way to do that. There are thousands of ways to emphasize everything you want without resorting to overmapping, and that's what I want to encourage, because it seems like you are just overmapping to make the map be exciting when that could be done in so many other ways.
And yeah, starting to tell us your reasons for all those sliders and overmaps instead of "I think it fits" would be a great way to start rational discussion too btw
I like how you're bringing "If you map could fit in other songs with the same BPM, then your map is bad" when you are literally overmapping tons of stuff just to make it exciting to play. Your triplets and streams would fit in any other song just as well simply because they aren't even existing in this song in the first place.
"I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music." Yeah right, that's why I'm pointing out overmaps. ok
I know what you want to represent with those sliders and other overmaps of all sorts, I just think that overmapping is a very bad way to do that. There are thousands of ways to emphasize everything you want without resorting to overmapping, and that's what I want to encourage, because it seems like you are just overmapping to make the map be exciting when that could be done in so many other ways.
And yeah, starting to tell us your reasons for all those sliders and overmaps instead of "I think it fits" would be a great way to start rational discussion too btw
Topic Starter
I wanted to do it, but your points totally demotivated me. Anyway that's what I'm trying to do in #modhelp, I'll give a sum upBonsai wrote:
And yeah, starting to tell us your reasons for all those sliders and overmaps instead of "I think it fits" would be a great way to start rational discussion too btw
01:46:092 (3,3,3,2,1,2) - are used to simulate hold notes which in this case fits the low pitch of the instruments
02:21:315 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - overmap in this section fits with the musical intensity and helps with the built up along with the rising pitch
02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) - unfortunately, this is indeed 1/3, i cant justify this
02:21:315 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - overmap in this section fits with the musical intensity and helps with the built up along with the rising pitch
02:25:199 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,1) - unfortunately, this is indeed 1/3, i cant justify this
Considering how his buildup is 1/4th using interpreted streams on 1/2 beats I find it PRETTY stupid that we're arguing the section that has MORE BEATS than the previous to be overmapped.
It makes no sense to change that last stream to 1/3rd given how this song was mapped. The mapper obviously knew this and is defending it because if you change it then it just ruins how it plays...
It makes no sense to change that last stream to 1/3rd given how this song was mapped. The mapper obviously knew this and is defending it because if you change it then it just ruins how it plays...
How about you guys wait for the mapper's response before trying to put words in their mouth?
going to bed now hihi, waking up tomorrow will be fun
A 1/2-slider, maybe with one reverse, would be a hold note too, and would not ignore the fact that that 'low' instrument actually has a 1/2-beat inbetween which is being completely ignored this way. Why does it need to be 1/8 when there is no 1/8 in the music?Kibbleru wrote:
01:46:092 (3,3,3,2,1,2) - are used to simulate hold notes which in this case fits the low pitch of the instruments
And the intensity could not have been represented in any other way, a way that would represent the song's rhythms more accurately? Why do you need to invent beats to the song in order for it to fit the song? There is no buildup noticable in the map as everything is spaced the same, and streams aren't notably longer towards the end or beginning or anything like that. Also, why is the supposed buildup more intense than the part it builds up to then?Kibbleru wrote:
02:21:315 (4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - overmap in this section fits with the musical intensity and helps with the built up along with the rising pitch
It doesn't seem like he's 'ovbiously' knowing that when all he says is "I asked players and they said 1/4 is fine". There is always a way to map it fitting to the rest of the map, after all, it is an element of the song, and the map is / should be based on the song, so if something fits in the song, how can it not fit the map? (maybe because the rest didn't fit that well in the first place?!? deep thoughts ikr)Xexxar wrote:
It makes no sense to change that last stream to 1/3rd given how this song was map. The mapper obviously knew this and is defending it because if you change it then it just ruins how it plays...
Is a discussion anyone can bring their opinion, not only the mapper (since is a community discussion).Bonsai wrote:
How about you guys wait for the mapper's response before trying to put words in their mouth?
Anyways Yales is doing something at the 1/3 part, lets hope this can be resolved sooner
I'll edit this with some suggestion for that part.
Topic Starter
I found the way Shiirn asked me to change it (instead of "suggesting" it) wayyyyyy to harsh for something that is, to me debatable (as I said and showed, some people such as myself, think it's actually fitting and sounds good). But at least he gave me an idea of how I could do it, I appreciate.Bonsai wrote:
not saying your map is stupid, just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything) That's pretty good to mention, because when you say that my overmapping or w/e are "ridiculous" this is the message you're bringing.
I like how you're bringing "If you map could fit in other songs with the same BPM, then your map is bad" when you are literally overmapping tons of stuff just to make it exciting to play. Your triplets and streams would fit in any other song just as well simply because they aren't even existing in this song in the first place. Actually this map is way easier than what most mappers would make nowadays for a song like that, so saying I mapped this way to make it exciting is so-so.
"I even feel you checked the map without even listening to the music." Yeah right, that's why I'm pointing out overmaps. ok
I know what you want to represent with those sliders and other overmaps of all sorts, I just think that overmapping is a very bad way to do that. There are thousands of ways to emphasize everything you want without resorting to overmapping, and that's what I want to encourage, because it seems like you are just overmapping to make the map be exciting when that could be done in so many other ways. But what if it fits to me? I mean.. My favourite mappers tend to do that as well, I have more faith in them than 2 or 3 modders.
A 1/2-slider, maybe with one reverse, would be a hold note too, and would not ignore the fact that that 'low' instrument actually has a 1/2-beat inbetween which is being completely ignored this way. Why does it need to be 1/8 when there is no 1/8 in the music? I don't even want to asnwer that because this is way too subjective, the music is defenitely not flat 1/1 or 1/2. To me if you map like this you miss a chance to show the potential of those sounds my sliders are following
It doesn't seem like he's 'ovbiously' knowing that when all he says is "I asked players and they said 1/4 is fine". The question was already mentioned (on another stream actually) and from that I asked multiple people to be sure of myself. At the end Desperate-kun checked the streams and said: " I really like the 'overmapped' stream and the 1/8 gimmicks you used, they fit the song well for me, I wouldn't worry about those. " So no, your point of view isn't general.
(maybe because the rest didn't fit that well in the first place?!? deep thoughts ikr) Actually no, to me 1/4 fits great, and I really, sincerly doubt you found this part was 1/3 by looking the map at first sight and without deleting the whole stream put the audio at 25% speed etc... Like "it's so obvious it's 1/3.."
Your point of view is welcome. But I won't change my style because of it. As I said (or as I wanted to say lol) the feedbacks I got from some specific mappers have way more impact than some random modders (which are, don't get me wrong, interesting to hear, but won't necessarily make a difference).
After that, I, at least, tried to make something with those 1/3. But first off, even if the beats are 1/3 I still think there's a drumroll behind. Like, I'm sorry but it's not crystal-clear it's 1/3. When I hear sounds like 02:25:467 (5) - it's not in my 1/3 mapping dictionary. Then the melody is sticked on 1/2 02:25:601 (7) - . So unless you want to burst some 336 bpm... Oh I could add reverse but it would feel way too slow compared to the whole pacing, and here comes the last point which is a sum up of all those points: The fact that the music isn't obvious 1/3, the fact it's right at the middle of a stream section it makes those 1/3 totally awakward to play and totally breaks the flow of the whole section as they are totally unexpected. And I mean... it fits to me and I'm not like the only one who will agree with that sooo I don't get why I have to change it as it isn't obvious and actually help the player in the process.
Natsu if you can bring some suggestions it'll be with pleasure I'll check them, but meanwhile I'm fine with its current state.
I don't want to offense anyone but I think this is a pretty dumb statement since you get inspired by other maps while mapping.. (after that it's up to you to know what's fitting or not but it becomes subjective).Shiirn wrote:
Didn't Loctav say something about not using other maps as justification for other maps?
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Topic Starter
Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.Liiraye wrote:
http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...
if it come to that I can do that for you probably.Yales wrote:
Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.Liiraye wrote:
http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...
Just dropping my opinion, this is definitely 1/3 from 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 -
You're following a particular sound for 02:24:128 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - and it's 1/4 here. There is the same sound from 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - but it's 1/3. You should make things consistent.
Even if you believe that 1/4 fits this part better, (tbh me too). A map must follow the song beforeall, it includes that everything must be snapped in time.
It already happened to me when i was mapping and ranking Installation, but songs are sometimes weird
You're following a particular sound for 02:24:128 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2) - and it's 1/4 here. There is the same sound from 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - but it's 1/3. You should make things consistent.
Even if you believe that 1/4 fits this part better, (tbh me too). A map must follow the song beforeall, it includes that everything must be snapped in time.
It already happened to me when i was mapping and ranking Installation, but songs are sometimes weird
isn't that pic you did like making a 1/8 stream on a 1/4? using 1/6 triples on 1/3 notes...Yales wrote:
Thanks for your suggestion, really much appreciated. But then it doesn't follow the melody, and the last downbeat not being hit isn't smthing I like.Liiraye wrote:
http://puu.sh/nExzW/f6ae693ecc.jpg
is how I'd map it
edit: actually this fits the synth better
Also, we shouldn't forget that if there's kick sliders here 02:25:735 (1,2,1,2) - it's because the music gets more intense in this whole section.
Therefore since it seems we don't need the thoughts of players (as they could "simply mash their keyboard" mhmh), we should just follow the music in a way that it makes sense I found this meanwhile http://puu.sh/nEBoW/d275bec69e.jpg (I'm dead serious about this btw). I mean pace seems approrpiate, most audible beats (I'll keep saying there's a drumroll behind) are followed too. I'm like why not. Or can I ask someone to edit mp3? Pretty sure it's possible to be fixed this way. I mean it's not like we would actually hear something different ...
generally a rule of thumb is to start a stance shift with sliders/repeat sliders so that the player doesn't get suddenly thrown off by going from 1/4 to 1/3, especially in a fast map like this in the middle of stream (not sure how much good this will do in scorev2 tho lol)
since the 1/3 is hard to hear, I'd suggest following the synths as I did, since they are more audible than the 1/3 while playing. Try it out and see what you think, good luck regardless!
Topic Starter
No it's mapped full 1/3 with 1/6 triples to follow the melody. Since it seems it will get dq for rhythm problem (without taking into account how smooth it is for the player) I wouldn't care so much about how hard it is to hit some 336 BPM. After all. The music allows it.Liiraye wrote:
isn't that pic you did like making a 1/8 stream on a 1/4? using 1/6 triples on 1/3 notes...
generally a rule of thumb is to start a stance shift with sliders/repeat sliders so that the player doesn't get suddenly thrown off by going from 1/4 to 1/3, especially in a fast map like this in the middle of stream (not sure how much good this will do in scorev2 tho lol)
since the 1/3 is hard to hear, I'd suggest following the synths as I did, since they are more audible than the 1/3 while playing. Try it out and see what you think, good luck regardless!
I tried your suggestion but as I pointed out there's a few things that bother me a little bit. It was the MOST intense part of the whole map. Understand that putting 1/3 slider reverse after that feels a bit empty.
"Since 1/3 is hard to hear" ... Ya well I don't even want to put those 1/3 so why shall I even make something to prepare the player for it? If you think it needs DQ cause it so obvious the snapping is wrong I'm gonna put some REAL 1/3. No excuse. (Shiirn and Bonsai clearly told me that players' opinion doesn't matter anyway... you made a nice catch there lol).
On the other hand seems someone could edit MP3... :3 Xexxar <3 (for what it's worth ... I mean CB agree it's 1/3 but also agree 1/4 fits better...)
It's somehow weird QATs haven't come yet, even after there was a healthy discussion here and there are few points to fix. o.o
Topic Starter
"to fix" ... mhhhhhhhh not sure about that tbh XDHappyRocket88 wrote:
It's somehow weird QATs haven't come yet, even after there was a healthy discussion here and there are few points to fix. o.o
because there are no qat
I guess I should take this mapset out of the Qualified category and let the discussion continue before a conclusion from the community is drawn.
-------
As for 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - , I have reservations about putting them as 1/4 streams for the sake of playability. Following the music is the basic essence of the game. So, probably change the snaps?
I hope everything onwards is constructive. Good luck with the requalification, Yales.
I actually agree. At least the inaudible hitsounds should be fixed before moving on.Smoothie World wrote:
00:32:699 - Does anyone else think the hitsounds hear are nearly impossible to hear? I have mine pretty loud and I had trouble hearing them
00:04:708 (2,1) - Why is this 6.71x spacing? I don't get it. At 00:06:851 (2,1) you have 3.5x and 00:08:994 (2,1) is even smaller, meanwhile the song is getting more and more intense.
00:12:811 - You don't have a triple on this tick anywhere else in the song. It's mapped to nothing.
-------
As for 02:25:199 - to 02:26:270 - , I have reservations about putting them as 1/4 streams for the sake of playability. Following the music is the basic essence of the game. So, probably change the snaps?
I hope everything onwards is constructive. Good luck with the requalification, Yales.
Topic Starter
DQ #2 
It's not inaudible at all.
40% is enough and proportionate with all my sections.
About the jump I already explained why I think it's fine. And I definitely won't touch it. 6.00 when the SV is 0.5 won't kill anyone btw.
Fixed the stream, it is now nicely snapped . (Since it seems they were like -so obvious-). The triples are for the melody. Better follow everything properly right. (If you disagree with it. After all the craps you said about players' opinion don't matter you better have some massive arguments about why I should change it). Also, I recieved a few complaints that my map was too easy for a snowdrive, it will also fix this in the process. Those 1/3 beats were a nice catch ! Thanks!
Here's a few things that I see coming and I already have the answers:
- But it's too hard --- I don't care so much about that.
(" just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything" - Bonsai) Also Shiirn told me exactly the same thing in #modhelp
- But it's unexpected --- the 1/3 in the music themselves are unexpected...how can I be more accurate then? (I mean this is at least unexpected to me... this point coming out for the first time after a few 50 mods lol)
More to come.
---
KD goes for being supportive (it's way more helpful than any mod, just sayin)
It's not inaudible at all.
40% is enough and proportionate with all my sections.
About the jump I already explained why I think it's fine. And I definitely won't touch it. 6.00 when the SV is 0.5 won't kill anyone btw.
Fixed the stream, it is now nicely snapped . (Since it seems they were like -so obvious-). The triples are for the melody. Better follow everything properly right. (If you disagree with it. After all the craps you said about players' opinion don't matter you better have some massive arguments about why I should change it). Also, I recieved a few complaints that my map was too easy for a snowdrive, it will also fix this in the process. Those 1/3 beats were a nice catch ! Thanks!
Here's a few things that I see coming and I already have the answers:
- But it's too hard --- I don't care so much about that.
(" just saying that player's opinions don't mean anything" - Bonsai) Also Shiirn told me exactly the same thing in #modhelp
- But it's unexpected --- the 1/3 in the music themselves are unexpected...how can I be more accurate then? (I mean this is at least unexpected to me... this point coming out for the first time after a few 50 mods lol)
More to come.
---
KD goes for being supportive (it's way more helpful than any mod, just sayin)
Don't feel offended from people modding your map. If you think they are rude, don't make a rude reply, contact a moderator instead. If you think they are talking nonsense, don't make a nonsense reply. If you run into a situation where you don't know what to do with your map, take a break for a few days and think about it carefully before making hasty decisions.
You don't have to fix things you don't agree with if you give proper reasoning for it. You and me know that the stream thing was much better before you changed it. Personally I didn't notice the stream wasn't on correct snap all the time I modded the map, because the music is pretty noisy and the stream sounded and played fine ingame. That's also the reason why I would say using 1/4 is fine there as a simplification. (Simplification because it is much easier and intuitive to play, even though 1/4 is more dense than 1/3). If you think the same then explain it exactly like that, short but reasonable. Don't write huge paragraphs about how you could make it even worse. Don't try to be ironic by saying you don't care about the players, because I know you do.
Do what you want with the map, just know that I am not willing to rebubble it with the 1/6 patterns.
You don't have to fix things you don't agree with if you give proper reasoning for it. You and me know that the stream thing was much better before you changed it. Personally I didn't notice the stream wasn't on correct snap all the time I modded the map, because the music is pretty noisy and the stream sounded and played fine ingame. That's also the reason why I would say using 1/4 is fine there as a simplification. (Simplification because it is much easier and intuitive to play, even though 1/4 is more dense than 1/3). If you think the same then explain it exactly like that, short but reasonable. Don't write huge paragraphs about how you could make it even worse. Don't try to be ironic by saying you don't care about the players, because I know you do.
Do what you want with the map, just know that I am not willing to rebubble it with the 1/6 patterns.
So it's fine to map 1/4 on 1/3 because it's simplifying for the player? I mean of course it's intuitive to keep streaming after such a long stream, but that doesn't mean it's any more rankable. There are tonnes of maps with mixed in 1/3 (I happen to map quite a few myself) where you have to compromise your patterning in order to follow the music to the form it was composed. Is his 1/6 patterns any different from that just because it made the map harder to play or because it's stupid? Seems like anything goes if it's easier and intuitive, and I believe mappers like yales is getting a lot of mixed signals here. Please be more clear and objective.
Just checking so I can add this to my rewritten version of the ranking criteria
Just checking so I can add this to my rewritten version of the ranking criteria
It depends. The reason we follow snaps is to make the hitsounds fitting and intuitive in gameplay. In this case 1/4 doesn't sound off to me at all due to the noisyness of the song. It is a subjective topic really. I am not trying to be objective, we are discussing a gameplay aspect here that is nothing about objectivity.
There are some cases where it doesn't make sense to discuss about wether snappings are worth fixing or not (for example if you have a short repeated slider anyways, and it's on wrong snap, you can just change the snap without changing the gameplay experience). But in cases like this it's a critical topic.
Also, Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed). So it doesn't even change anything. However, it's an option to satisfy everyone, except those who say mp3s should not be edited for some reason but that is an entirely different topic.
There are some cases where it doesn't make sense to discuss about wether snappings are worth fixing or not (for example if you have a short repeated slider anyways, and it's on wrong snap, you can just change the snap without changing the gameplay experience). But in cases like this it's a critical topic.
Also, Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed). So it doesn't even change anything. However, it's an option to satisfy everyone, except those who say mp3s should not be edited for some reason but that is an entirely different topic.
If he edits it accordingly I have no issues here. We are talking about the rule saying no unsnapped notes, isn't that as objective as it gets?
Claiming it should be mapped ignoring this rule is a subjective statement. You say it's easier/more intuitive to play, I ask when did we start catering to players instead of striving to do justice to it's composers work & the actual sounds it provides us?
The composer made it 1/3 for a reason. This is for example why sometimes, having empty sliderends is fine because they aren't ignoring the music, instead adding an aspect to it. There's a clear distinction there.
Or am I missing something here?
Claiming it should be mapped ignoring this rule is a subjective statement. You say it's easier/more intuitive to play, I ask when did we start catering to players instead of striving to do justice to it's composers work & the actual sounds it provides us?
The composer made it 1/3 for a reason. This is for example why sometimes, having empty sliderends is fine because they aren't ignoring the music, instead adding an aspect to it. There's a clear distinction there.
Or am I missing something here?
extended sliders are basically the same unsnapped thing... (In most of cases) so being hard rule to snap to the music would kill this tooLiiraye wrote:
If he edits it accordingly I have no issues here. We are talking about the rule saying no unsnapped notes, isn't that as objective as it gets?
Claiming it should be mapped ignoring this rule is a subjective statement. You say it's easier/more intuitive to play, I ask when did we start catering to players instead of striving to do justice to it's composers work & the actual sounds it provides us?
The composer made it 1/3 for a reason. This is for example why sometimes, having empty sliderends is fine because they aren't ignoring the music, instead adding an aspect to it. There's a clear distinction there.
Or am I missing something here?
, since any defense to them will be subjective as well, so the comparison is almost the same.Anyways Yales, I think using 1/3 sliders jump is the best option you have, is just a tiny section of your map, so I guess making it a bit more comfortable for players will be nice (If you need a bit help with timeline catch me in game), anyways take sometime to think calm about it.
Sure, I understand how you're reasoning, but there's a reason why a high percentage of maps today use, and are allowed to use silenced sliderends in ranked maps, while none use 1/4 streams on a 1/3 section.
So no, it's not the same thing since they don't ignore the music, they add to the gameplay aspect.
There's a clear difference and I hope everyone can see & understand this. If not let's go and unrank every other map we rank today. Hurr
So no, it's not the same thing since they don't ignore the music, they add to the gameplay aspect.
There's a clear difference and I hope everyone can see & understand this. If not let's go and unrank every other map we rank today. Hurr
I'm against using 1/3 slider repeats because yes, they take away from the impact well. But after a few 1/4 sliders its not difficult to transition into a 1/3 stream especially when it starts on a downbeat. However both the composition and 1/6 triples in that section is pretty much unreadable, extreme, and uncalled for, I think you know that. Pretty sure everyone would be happier if you'd just remap the 1/3 section appropriately and push this map forward rather than wasting time trying to spite people with your own creative work.
Topic Starter
What I mean with this pattern is clearly that it's not because you're following the music perfectly that it's for the best. The triples are the proof of it as handsome explained "both the composition and 1/6 triples in that section is pretty much unreadable" yet the triples are correct and could be totally plausible by following the logic a few people told me to. But for the reason Desperate-kun gave, and because hansome gave valid arguments (and because everyone seems helpful e.e) I won't keep it.
I did explain myself about it though. Yes the beats are snapped 1/3, yet the music, as Desperate-kun said is really "noisy" I would even say there's a drumroll behind this which allows a full stream. Once more, sounds like this 02:25:467 - (until the end) are not 1/3. it might feel low compared to the 1/3 beats but in full speed this is actually what you hear. And it actually goes the same for the beginning of this "1/3 section"
I mean the 1/3 are clearly not that obvious, you kinda have to delete all notes, play audio at 25% and focus quite a little bit to find it (which makes me kinda wonder about the intentions of the first guy who found it....... That's another subject I guess). Adding to it, that because the 1/3 are unexpected and inaudible it's really awkward not only to play but to look at (especially considering the pace of this section).
As Desperate-kun said as well " Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed)" that's also what I said and this is the reason why I disagree with that point.
Thanks for being supportive >.<
PS: While it's DQ I'll ask there, d'you think the offset is ok? I feel that 1642~ might actually be better???)
I did explain myself about it though. Yes the beats are snapped 1/3, yet the music, as Desperate-kun said is really "noisy" I would even say there's a drumroll behind this which allows a full stream. Once more, sounds like this 02:25:467 - (until the end) are not 1/3. it might feel low compared to the 1/3 beats but in full speed this is actually what you hear. And it actually goes the same for the beginning of this "1/3 section"
I mean the 1/3 are clearly not that obvious, you kinda have to delete all notes, play audio at 25% and focus quite a little bit to find it (which makes me kinda wonder about the intentions of the first guy who found it....... That's another subject I guess). Adding to it, that because the 1/3 are unexpected and inaudible it's really awkward not only to play but to look at (especially considering the pace of this section).
As Desperate-kun said as well " Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed)" that's also what I said and this is the reason why I disagree with that point.
Thanks for being supportive >.<
PS: While it's DQ I'll ask there, d'you think the offset is ok? I feel that 1642~ might actually be better???)
SPOILER
I'll keep your advices in mind from now on.
Actually the problem was that a BN came and gave some points (said objective) that weren't following my logic of mapping at all. And because his name is colorful, his points actually had way more impact (that's how I saw it at least). Then the discussion went really fastly from "suggesting" changements to you "HAVE TO" change it.Desperate-kun wrote:
Don't feel offended from people modding your map. If you think they are rude, don't make a rude reply, contact a moderator instead. If you think they are talking nonsense, don't make a nonsense reply. If you run into a situation where you don't know what to do with your map, take a break for a few days and think about it carefully before making hasty decisions.
I'll keep your advices in mind from now on.
Yales wrote:
What I mean with this pattern is clearly that it's not because you're following the music perfectly that it's for the best. The triples are the proof of it as handsome explained "both the composition and 1/6 triples in that section is pretty much unreadable" yet the triples are correct and could be totally plausible by following the logic a few people told me to. But for the reason Desperate-kun gave, and because hansome gave valid arguments (and because everyone seems helpful e.e) I won't keep it.
I did explain myself about it though. Yes the beats are snapped 1/3, yet the music, as Desperate-kun said is really "noisy" I would even say there's a drumroll behind this which allows a full stream. Once more, sounds like this 02:25:467 - (until the end) are not 1/3. it might feel low compared to the 1/3 beats but in full speed this is actually what you hear. And it actually goes the same for the beginning of this "1/3 section"
I mean the 1/3 are clearly not that obvious, you kinda have to delete all notes, play audio at 25% and focus quite a little bit to find it (which makes me kinda wonder about the intentions of the first guy who found it....... That's another subject I guess). Adding to it, that because the 1/3 are unexpected and inaudible it's really awkward not only to play but to look at (especially considering the pace of this section).
As Desperate-kun said as well " Yales could just have the mp3 edited so the sounds are on 1/4, and nobody would even notice the difference ingame (or when listening to the map at normal speed)" that's also what I said and this is the reason why I disagree with this point.
Thanks for being supportive >.<
PS: While it's DQ I'll ask there, d'you think the offset is ok? I feel that 1642~ might actually be better???)
What no, the 1/6 is not comparable as a substitute to 1/3 at all. What logic are you applying here? If you wanted to prove me wrong, use 1/3..
You're trying to make excuses for a clear error and undermine it by hinting that the guy who found it did so to mess with you? I mean even if that is the case, wouldn't you be happy that he helped improve your map by finding it? I myself have found errors in my own ranked map and wish someone would've found them in time thinking back, because now I regret it.
If you want to edit it go ahead, I'm sure nobody will mind, but the fact that you keep defending it in every way you can while all of us here knows there's an objective error in the map is a bit silly to me.
Topic Starter
The melody is sticked on 1/2. The 1/6 were, hence, following it (as it follows beats+melody). The 1/6 triples were NOT mapped on nothing.Liiraye wrote:
What no, the 1/6 is not comparable as a substitute to 1/3 at all. What logic are you applying here? If you wanted to prove me wrong, use 1/3..
You're trying to make excuses for a clear error and undermine it by hinting that the guy who found it did so to mess with you? I mean even if that is the case, wouldn't you be happy that he helped improve your map by finding it? I myself have found errors in my own ranked map and wish someone would've found them in time thinking back, because now I regret it.
If you want to edit it go ahead, I'm sure nobody will mind, but the fact that you keep defending it in every way you can while all of us here knows there's an objective error in the map is a bit silly to me.
I don't try to make excuses, I'm giving arugments (which follows the ones of Desperate-kun imo).
And for the reasons I said, I don't think that 1/3 here is going to help my map to improve, that's the whole problem of this point for me (and I'm not the only one saying that 1/4 actually fits better). Otherwise I would have changed it right away.
Right... I know when to give up. GL with ranking!
Topic Starter
Alright, redownload set, the 1/3 section is now fixed.
...
Shall we go?
...
Shall we go?
Forget this post
good luck T_T
just one more thing i'd like to point out.
similarly, you could try adjusting this section 02:21:430 - to something like http://i.imgur.com/PQnS4c4.png without the usage of 1/2 jumps or long streams (the 9 note stream seemed off) because the music hasn't switched back to normal time yet (snares kick in at 02:23:573 - ). the main point would be to similarly reduce the rhythm density, so that the section afterward feels more difficult and thus, give more impact.
yes i wrote a lot of words for this because i feel strongly about it and i didn't really like the reason of 'i prefer this'.
i really think you should take this into consideration, although it sounds very similar to the section here: 01:20:359 - , the drum pattern is going half time and the music definitely changes. in my opinion, and i think many people will agree with me here, it should be represented with slightly lower slider velocity as well as less rhythm density than you have going on. yes i do understand where you're coming from, it could be interpreted as 'tension' and therefore you threw some jumps here and there. however you could keep in mind the context of the song and its adjacent sections and show that the music drops in intensity from here: 02:17:145 - , so that it gives more impact to the stream section from 02:23:573 - onwards. it's more of a buildup with lots of tension rather than a really intense part that requires lots of movement.Bonsai wrote:
Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well
similarly, you could try adjusting this section 02:21:430 - to something like http://i.imgur.com/PQnS4c4.png without the usage of 1/2 jumps or long streams (the 9 note stream seemed off) because the music hasn't switched back to normal time yet (snares kick in at 02:23:573 - ). the main point would be to similarly reduce the rhythm density, so that the section afterward feels more difficult and thus, give more impact.
yes i wrote a lot of words for this because i feel strongly about it and i didn't really like the reason of 'i prefer this'.
Topic Starter
Not changing that section, never xD. First of all as you said the music might be half beat or whatever but the section is really intense (I mean, even last time I hesitated to put a kiai here...) But not only this. I actully based those patterns on the intensity of the vocal. there's a clear difference between 02:19:287 (1,2,1,2) - and 02:20:225 (1,2) - same for previous part. I mean the vocal before the 1/1 sliders is way more intense and sharped than those smooth 1/1. So no, I highly disagree with your point. Those jumps are far from being "random". The fact there's 1/1 sliders already slow down the pace of the section quite a bit before the streams. Not to mention that those jumps give actually more impact on those 1/1.handsome wrote:
just one more thing i'd like to point out.i really think you should take this into consideration, although it sounds very similar to the section here: 01:20:359 - , the drum pattern is going half time and the music definitely changes. in my opinion, and i think many people will agree with me here, it should be represented with slightly lower slider velocity as well as less rhythm density than you have going on. yes i do understand where you're coming from, it could be interpreted as 'tension' and therefore you threw some jumps here and there. however you could keep in mind the context of the song and its adjacent sections and show that the music drops in intensity from here: 02:17:145 - , so that it gives more impact to the stream section from 02:23:573 - onwards. it's more of a buildup with lots of tension rather than a really intense part that requires lots of movement.Bonsai wrote:
Also, minor but imo unfitting nonetheless, 02:16:628 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5) - the music is kinda going half-BPM but you just throw jumps around anyways, I don't think that represents the music very well
similarly, you could try adjusting this section 02:21:430 - to something like http://i.imgur.com/PQnS4c4.png without the usage of 1/2 jumps or long streams (the 9 note stream seemed off) because the music hasn't switched back to normal time yet (snares kick in at 02:23:573 - ). the main point would be to similarly reduce the rhythm density, so that the section afterward feels more difficult and thus, give more impact.
yes i wrote a lot of words for this because i feel strongly about it and i didn't really like the reason of 'i prefer this'.
Not sure to get your last point (and the fact that I really don't see a problem here neither doesn't help :c) I mean if I would change it, following my own logic which is to map the stream on the long drums would be to do something like this http://puu.sh/nHzZ7/c40cf5b3f4.jpg but then I don't find it really natural to play cause it doesn't go along with the vocal as well. I think those triples are "preparing the ground" good enough. Also I think that pattern like 02:25:180 (1,2,1,2) - is really intense the way it is, no really need to slow down before to give more impact to it.
Man I really want to see this ranked \o/ . I've been playing this map since it came out and a lot changed. It makes me think how trying to rank a beatmap involves changing, sometimes to better stuff sometimes to worst stuff. Well I'll try to give you some help Yales, but I'm new in this mod think and my style of mod is not convencional, so feel free to use this the way you prefer
Insane:
1)This slider 00:11:520 (3) - - can end at 00:11:653 - instead of 00:11:520 (3) - , makes it easier from a player perspective, but if you want to keep this section hard, then don't mind it. Same applies to this slider 00:32:431 (8) -
2)I have a question. In this part of the music you made the sliders in sequence 00:15:002 (1,2,3,4) - but in this part that is similar 00:23:573 (1,2,3,4) - on the song you changed the order of the sliders. If it's because of compose purposes there's no need to change it, but remember that making sections similar always help with the flow. This part is a great example of that:00:19:823 (1,2,3,4,1) - - and here00:41:386 (1,2,3,1) -
3)This hit circle 01:24:128 (1) - could be an unique combo, it would be great since the final part of this also finishes with an isoleted hitcircle 01:26:270 (1) -
4) I don't know what to think about this 03:14:485 (1,1) - . As a mapper I love this, as a player this is hell hard
IGNORE THIS
5)For some reason I didn't feel this part with as much flow as the rest of the chorus, I can't explain it tho, but it felt slow somehow, total personal perspective tho 03:29:332 (3,1) - . That's the only part of the entire map I think you could actually make any changes on the compose, the rest is GREAT!!!
Now I'll point things that I hope you don't change in the future:
DUDE THIS LOOKS SO COOL 01:58:930 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - PLS DON"T LISTEN TO PPL, KEEP THIS!!!
I'm new in modding so I can't help with the other diff. But I mean it when I say I really like your Omoi trilogy. Really want it ranked. Take my star senpai o/
->I've edited, it seems it wasn't updated, sorry about that.
Insane:
1)This slider 00:11:520 (3) - - can end at 00:11:653 - instead of 00:11:520 (3) - , makes it easier from a player perspective, but if you want to keep this section hard, then don't mind it. Same applies to this slider 00:32:431 (8) -
2)I have a question. In this part of the music you made the sliders in sequence 00:15:002 (1,2,3,4) - but in this part that is similar 00:23:573 (1,2,3,4) - on the song you changed the order of the sliders. If it's because of compose purposes there's no need to change it, but remember that making sections similar always help with the flow. This part is a great example of that:00:19:823 (1,2,3,4,1) - - and here00:41:386 (1,2,3,1) -
3)This hit circle 01:24:128 (1) - could be an unique combo, it would be great since the final part of this also finishes with an isoleted hitcircle 01:26:270 (1) -
4) I don't know what to think about this 03:14:485 (1,1) - . As a mapper I love this, as a player this is hell hard
IGNORE THIS5)For some reason I didn't feel this part with as much flow as the rest of the chorus, I can't explain it tho, but it felt slow somehow, total personal perspective tho 03:29:332 (3,1) - . That's the only part of the entire map I think you could actually make any changes on the compose, the rest is GREAT!!!
Now I'll point things that I hope you don't change in the future:
DUDE THIS LOOKS SO COOL 01:58:930 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - PLS DON"T LISTEN TO PPL, KEEP THIS!!!
I'm new in modding so I can't help with the other diff. But I mean it when I say I really like your Omoi trilogy. Really want it ranked. Take my star senpai o/
->I've edited, it seems it wasn't updated, sorry about that.
Topic Starter
Hello, Thank you very much for your support and the time spent for this mod (as well as the star).Net0 wrote:
Man I really want to see this ranked \o/ . I've been playing this map since it came out and a lot changed. It makes me think how trying to rank a beatmap involves changing, sometimes to better stuff sometimes to worst stuff. Well I'll try to give you some help Yales, but I'm new in this mod think and my style of mod is not convencional, so feel free to use this the way you prefer
Insane:
1)This slider 00:11:520 (3) - - can end at 00:11:653 - instead of 00:11:520 (3) - , makes it easier from a player perspective, but if you want to keep this section hard, then don't mind it. Same applies to this slider 00:32:431 (8) - I'm just following the music though. It might be surprising if you expect a triple but it's not really hard to play.
2)I have a question. In this part of the music you made the sliders in sequence 00:15:002 (1,2,3,4) - but in this part that is similar 00:23:573 (1,2,3,4) - on the song you changed the order of the sliders. If it's because of compose purposes there's no need to change it, but remember that making sections similar always help with the flow. This part is a great example of that:00:19:823 (1,2,3,4,1) - - and here00:41:386 (1,2,3,1) - I'm not sure it gives a better flow to take the same parts over and over again. It might sounds easier to you right now, because you're already used to a certain movement. But it's not harder or something, it's just slightly different to give a little bit of variations (otherwise the map would be pretty boring)
3)This hit circle 01:24:128 (1) - could be an unique combo, it would be great since the final part of this also finishes with an isoleted hitcircle 01:26:270 (1) - Considering the fact that it's also what I did on extra+freeze, this is actually a good point and I take that.
4) I don't know what to think about this 03:14:485 (1,1) - . As a mapper I love this, as a player this is hell hard
5)For some reason I didn't feel this part with as much flow as the rest of the chorus, I can't explain it tho, but it felt slow somehow, total personal perspective tho 03:29:332 (3,1) - . That's the only part of the entire map I think you could actually make any changes on the compose, the rest is GREAT!!! Ya.. I somehow decided to give the emphasize by undermapping those sliders to give something different to play to the player. This is just another way to map this part. I personally prefer this way by the way
Now I'll point things that I hope you don't change in the future:
DUDE THIS LOOKS SO COOL 01:58:930 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - PLS DON"T LISTEN TO PPL, KEEP THIS!!!
I'm new in modding so I can't help with the other diff. But I mean it when I say I really like your Omoi trilogy. Really want it ranked. Take my star senpai o/
->I've edited, it seems it wasn't updated, sorry about that.
Anyways, it's always really cool to see that people still support me on this "Omoi trilogy" ^^
I didn't give up on this yet and got the confirmation yesterday that the staff didn't neither!
Anything happening here?
Did the discussion resolve?
Did the discussion resolve?
Topic Starter
Well, I edited the mp3 so the "unrankable" problem is fixed. Desperate-kun told me a while ago he didn't give up on it neither but I guess he's busy. And smallboat is now a bit "scared" to rebubble it because he is not sure if he's actually allowed to do it a 3rd time or somthing.Okorin wrote:
Anything happening here?
Did the discussion resolve?
So nope, nothing seems to happen here. I just uped the thread to not let it go in graveyard just in case.
Desp has finals so thats a thing. I dont believe the mp3 needed an edit because its just reverse-engineering to justify an overmap.
But now its in the song!! But its in the song because your way of mapping requires it to be >_>
Tldr i dont think mp3 edit was necessary, poke me ingame.
But now its in the song!! But its in the song because your way of mapping requires it to be >_>
Tldr i dont think mp3 edit was necessary, poke me ingame.
logging
22:14 Okorin: oh right snow drive
22:14 Yales: hello, sorry didnt see your message
22:14 Yales: update :O
22:14 Okorin: oh right snow drive
22:15 Okorin: is all i wrote
22:16 Okorin: ok something's wrong with me tonight i can't seem to focus on the screen to play this game without feeling dizzy
22:16 Yales: haha, well me too, but more because it's been a while i didnt see circles x)
22:17 Okorin: nobody commented on the background being vioelent
22:17 Okorin: violent*
22:17 Okorin: yet right
22:17 Okorin: good then because the violent thing is dumb
22:19 Yales:
22:20 Yales: i want a bg from alyssa
22:20 Okorin: i like the other version of this song more
22:20 Okorin: like idk what the troll shitdiff used but that version of the song seems genuinely better to me in terms of vocals
22:21 Okorin: but that's up to personal preference i guess
22:21 Yales: I disagree
22:21 Okorin: i just remember seeing the reddit thread saying that a lot as yours was qualified
22:21 Yales: I had choice between both when i made the diff, and i prefered this version by far
22:21 Yales: the other feels so.... annoying XD
22:22 Okorin: idk if higher ar can help with reading this diff
22:23 Yales: i don't know but i don't think it rly calls for high ar
22:24 Yales: I mean, there's some tricky thing, but it's really standard
22:24 Yales: overall
22:25 Yales: even the mindfuck thingy, sliders are on white ticks all the time, it's not like out of context or smthing x)
22:26 Okorin: that's not the point i was trying to make lol
22:27 Yales: well changing the ar isn't something that would decline, but I wonder if it's that necessary
22:27 Okorin: mainly i noticed that yo uhave like 5 one half beat objects visible at most times and i was wondering
22:27 Okorin: if showing less is easier to interpret or not
22:29 Okorin: ppl were saying it plays "weird" and generally liked to criticise it
22:29 Okorin: i wonder if that's just cuz one top player said it's weird or because your map feels weird to them
22:31 Yales: Well.. I don't know. I still asked some top players/mappers to play it, not only my friends, and they were quite surprised about the gamepay/star rating
22:31 Yales: chewin..captin
22:31 Yales: so i dont know who said it
22:31 Yales: if it's yuii- for example, he didn't even testplayed it sooo
22:31 Yales: I dont know i.i
22:31 Okorin: i don't know either
22:31 Okorin: but it being qualified once and receiving a bunch of negative feedback on reddit and idk maybe the disqus
22:31 Yales: also i dont know who said that, the only time I heard it was by yuii- actually xD
22:32 Okorin: soesnt seem like something i'd ignore
22:32 Yales: d'you still have the thread?
22:32 Yales: I just hope it';s not just because it's the version "powered by cookiezi" ..............
22:32 Okorin: https://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/commen ... qualified/
22:32 Okorin: part of it is memes i guess
22:32 Yales: thanks
22:33 Okorin: but the majority complains about the audio
22:33 Yales: I don't like the other version
22:33 Yales: and people wouldnt coplain about it if they didn't hear the other version first
22:35 Yales: you know what
22:35 Okorin: plays very awkward isnt the most constructive thing to say either
22:35 Okorin: hm
22:35 Okorin: cant you do the same thing as i did ?
22:35 Okorin: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/356752
22:36 Yales: what did you do?
22:36 Okorin: read the description
22:36 Yales: ah :p
22:36 Okorin: basically i put a version with the japanese vocals / original up in there
22:37 Okorin: so that people can play it in whatever they like more
22:37 Yales: I don't even know if it will fit the other version x)
22:37 Yales: but why not
22:37 Okorin: well the intro in that other version is different form what i can hear
22:38 Okorin: probably wont fit well in parts
22:38 Okorin: :s
22:38 Okorin: would have been cool if it did though
22:39 Okorin: woudl shut up mp3 haters
22:39 Yales: gotta try it but i dont know whats their problem with the mp3 quality imo
22:39 Yales: it comes from original source
22:39 Yales: it already got dq for this
22:39 Okorin: that was before the dq for that
22:39 Okorin:
22:40 Okorin: like one half is complaining omg mp3 sounds bad
22:40 Okorin: and the other ohalf is like
22:40 Okorin: omg fuck this version
22:41 Yales: my main concern is for the map quality actually
22:41 Yales: but they're unable to give a single point I suppose
22:42 Okorin: yeah
22:42 Okorin: do you play tablet or
22:42 Okorin: mouse
22:42 Yales: yep
22:42 Yales: tablet
22:43 Okorin: cuz as a mouse player i have to admit
22:43 Okorin: some stuff feels odd
22:44 Yales: for example?
22:45 Okorin: 00:13:662 (6,7,1,2) - , also doesn't reflect the song toooo well cuz focus should be expected on 00:13:930 (1) - but instead its something like highlight 7 and 2
22:46 Okorin: 00:16:073 (1,2,3,4) - angles like that seem awkward to follow in general, at least with a mouse especially when considering that you'll drop off 00:16:073 (1,2) - early because of the way its arranged
22:46 Okorin: so these feel even closer
22:47 Okorin: and then huge jump and harsh angle to next make this harder to follow with a mouse i guess
22:47 Okorin: 00:19:823 (5) - nc ? xD u had one in 00:15:537 (1) -
22:48 Okorin: 00:50:493 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1) - omg general square hate strikes, but there's not much i expect you to do with these
22:49 Yales: lol ya
22:49 Yales: i wonder how many haters would love the map if i replace those squares with triangles
22:49 Yales: xD
22:49 Okorin: xd
22:50 Okorin: for some reason 01:11:787 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3) - this arrangement screwed with my brain until i memorised it
22:50 Yales: ._.
22:50 Okorin: mainly 01:12:591 (2,1,2,3) - ended up being confusing for me because of how one of these is hidden partly
22:50 Okorin: but that could be blamed on the skin i play with
22:50 Okorin: but
22:51 Okorin: so
22:51 Okorin: *
22:51 Okorin: 01:32:412 (2,3,4,1,2,3) - omg this reminds me of a pattern from my first ranked
22:51 Okorin: set
22:51 Okorin: i mean i hate the pattern now because in my context it didn't fit well
22:52 Okorin: but \:D/
22:52 Okorin: 01:37:502 - are really cool
22:52 Yales: oh ya?
22:52 Yales: nice
22:53 *Okorin is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/517595 iojjj - Akui to Ai no Sukima no Puzzle [Diplomatic Immunity]]
22:53 Okorin: 02:49:655 -
22:54 Okorin: i wouldnt combo 01:49:689 (1) - cuz to me they seem to belong to the same phrase
22:54 Okorin: 02:07:636 (2,3,4) - i think just normal stacking is easier to comprehend and doesn't damage anything flow wise, for me this came out of nowhere and i wasnt prepared for it lol
22:56 Okorin: idk how you combo but based on 02:49:020 (1) - shouldnt 02:50:091 (3) - have combo lol
22:57 Yales: first point i feel it actually ad more flows lol
22:57 Yales: second ok
22:58 Okorin: 03:39:645 (1,2,3,4,5) - is similar to one of the things i mentioned earlier because angles make this a bit odd for mouse players sth like moving 4 upwards could be a better-working-solution for me but idk
22:59 Okorin: http://puu.sh/ovBKX/dba3f31c4b.jpg like
22:59 Yales: ya might change this one, the idea is cool
23:00 Okorin: otherwise i dont have many issues playing this but my best guess is you affinity for squares can trigger people :p
23:00 Okorin: the only thing i don't like thaaat much yet is the clusterfuck part xD
23:02 Yales: post savelog ill check it more in detail!
23:02 Okorin: we can go over the other diffs in a similar manner but i don't think that much will show up really
22:14 Yales: hello, sorry didnt see your message
22:14 Yales: update :O
22:14 Okorin: oh right snow drive
22:15 Okorin: is all i wrote
22:16 Okorin: ok something's wrong with me tonight i can't seem to focus on the screen to play this game without feeling dizzy
22:16 Yales: haha, well me too, but more because it's been a while i didnt see circles x)
22:17 Okorin: nobody commented on the background being vioelent
22:17 Okorin: violent*
22:17 Okorin: yet right
22:17 Okorin: good then because the violent thing is dumb
22:19 Yales:
22:20 Yales: i want a bg from alyssa
22:20 Okorin: i like the other version of this song more
22:20 Okorin: like idk what the troll shitdiff used but that version of the song seems genuinely better to me in terms of vocals
22:21 Okorin: but that's up to personal preference i guess
22:21 Yales: I disagree
22:21 Okorin: i just remember seeing the reddit thread saying that a lot as yours was qualified
22:21 Yales: I had choice between both when i made the diff, and i prefered this version by far
22:21 Yales: the other feels so.... annoying XD
22:22 Okorin: idk if higher ar can help with reading this diff
22:23 Yales: i don't know but i don't think it rly calls for high ar
22:24 Yales: I mean, there's some tricky thing, but it's really standard
22:24 Yales: overall
22:25 Yales: even the mindfuck thingy, sliders are on white ticks all the time, it's not like out of context or smthing x)
22:26 Okorin: that's not the point i was trying to make lol
22:27 Yales: well changing the ar isn't something that would decline, but I wonder if it's that necessary
22:27 Okorin: mainly i noticed that yo uhave like 5 one half beat objects visible at most times and i was wondering
22:27 Okorin: if showing less is easier to interpret or not
22:29 Okorin: ppl were saying it plays "weird" and generally liked to criticise it
22:29 Okorin: i wonder if that's just cuz one top player said it's weird or because your map feels weird to them
22:31 Yales: Well.. I don't know. I still asked some top players/mappers to play it, not only my friends, and they were quite surprised about the gamepay/star rating
22:31 Yales: chewin..captin
22:31 Yales: so i dont know who said it
22:31 Yales: if it's yuii- for example, he didn't even testplayed it sooo
22:31 Yales: I dont know i.i
22:31 Okorin: i don't know either
22:31 Okorin: but it being qualified once and receiving a bunch of negative feedback on reddit and idk maybe the disqus
22:31 Yales: also i dont know who said that, the only time I heard it was by yuii- actually xD
22:32 Okorin: soesnt seem like something i'd ignore
22:32 Yales: d'you still have the thread?
22:32 Yales: I just hope it';s not just because it's the version "powered by cookiezi" ..............
22:32 Okorin: https://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/commen ... qualified/
22:32 Okorin: part of it is memes i guess
22:32 Yales: thanks
22:33 Okorin: but the majority complains about the audio
22:33 Yales: I don't like the other version
22:33 Yales: and people wouldnt coplain about it if they didn't hear the other version first
22:35 Yales: you know what
22:35 Okorin: plays very awkward isnt the most constructive thing to say either
22:35 Okorin: hm
22:35 Okorin: cant you do the same thing as i did ?
22:35 Okorin: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/356752
22:36 Yales: what did you do?
22:36 Okorin: read the description
22:36 Yales: ah :p
22:36 Okorin: basically i put a version with the japanese vocals / original up in there
22:37 Okorin: so that people can play it in whatever they like more
22:37 Yales: I don't even know if it will fit the other version x)
22:37 Yales: but why not
22:37 Okorin: well the intro in that other version is different form what i can hear
22:38 Okorin: probably wont fit well in parts
22:38 Okorin: :s
22:38 Okorin: would have been cool if it did though
22:39 Okorin: woudl shut up mp3 haters
22:39 Yales: gotta try it but i dont know whats their problem with the mp3 quality imo
22:39 Yales: it comes from original source
22:39 Yales: it already got dq for this
22:39 Okorin: that was before the dq for that
22:39 Okorin:
22:40 Okorin: like one half is complaining omg mp3 sounds bad
22:40 Okorin: and the other ohalf is like
22:40 Okorin: omg fuck this version
22:41 Yales: my main concern is for the map quality actually
22:41 Yales: but they're unable to give a single point I suppose
22:42 Okorin: yeah
22:42 Okorin: do you play tablet or
22:42 Okorin: mouse
22:42 Yales: yep
22:42 Yales: tablet
22:43 Okorin: cuz as a mouse player i have to admit
22:43 Okorin: some stuff feels odd
22:44 Yales: for example?
22:45 Okorin: 00:13:662 (6,7,1,2) - , also doesn't reflect the song toooo well cuz focus should be expected on 00:13:930 (1) - but instead its something like highlight 7 and 2
22:46 Okorin: 00:16:073 (1,2,3,4) - angles like that seem awkward to follow in general, at least with a mouse especially when considering that you'll drop off 00:16:073 (1,2) - early because of the way its arranged
22:46 Okorin: so these feel even closer
22:47 Okorin: and then huge jump and harsh angle to next make this harder to follow with a mouse i guess
22:47 Okorin: 00:19:823 (5) - nc ? xD u had one in 00:15:537 (1) -
22:48 Okorin: 00:50:493 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1) - omg general square hate strikes, but there's not much i expect you to do with these
22:49 Yales: lol ya
22:49 Yales: i wonder how many haters would love the map if i replace those squares with triangles
22:49 Yales: xD
22:49 Okorin: xd
22:50 Okorin: for some reason 01:11:787 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3) - this arrangement screwed with my brain until i memorised it
22:50 Yales: ._.
22:50 Okorin: mainly 01:12:591 (2,1,2,3) - ended up being confusing for me because of how one of these is hidden partly
22:50 Okorin: but that could be blamed on the skin i play with
22:50 Okorin: but
22:51 Okorin: so
22:51 Okorin: *
22:51 Okorin: 01:32:412 (2,3,4,1,2,3) - omg this reminds me of a pattern from my first ranked
22:51 Okorin: set
22:51 Okorin: i mean i hate the pattern now because in my context it didn't fit well
22:52 Okorin: but \:D/
22:52 Okorin: 01:37:502 - are really cool
22:52 Yales: oh ya?
22:52 Yales: nice
22:53 *Okorin is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/517595 iojjj - Akui to Ai no Sukima no Puzzle [Diplomatic Immunity]]
22:53 Okorin: 02:49:655 -
22:54 Okorin: i wouldnt combo 01:49:689 (1) - cuz to me they seem to belong to the same phrase
22:54 Okorin: 02:07:636 (2,3,4) - i think just normal stacking is easier to comprehend and doesn't damage anything flow wise, for me this came out of nowhere and i wasnt prepared for it lol
22:56 Okorin: idk how you combo but based on 02:49:020 (1) - shouldnt 02:50:091 (3) - have combo lol
22:57 Yales: first point i feel it actually ad more flows lol
22:57 Yales: second ok
22:58 Okorin: 03:39:645 (1,2,3,4,5) - is similar to one of the things i mentioned earlier because angles make this a bit odd for mouse players sth like moving 4 upwards could be a better-working-solution for me but idk
22:59 Okorin: http://puu.sh/ovBKX/dba3f31c4b.jpg like
22:59 Yales: ya might change this one, the idea is cool
23:00 Okorin: otherwise i dont have many issues playing this but my best guess is you affinity for squares can trigger people :p
23:00 Okorin: the only thing i don't like thaaat much yet is the clusterfuck part xD
23:02 Yales: post savelog ill check it more in detail!
23:02 Okorin: we can go over the other diffs in a similar manner but i don't think that much will show up really
Topic Starter
Honnestly I don't want to to rework on this. It's good to me, and not only me, I asked multiple players, mappers and modders that I can blindly trust. It's way more revelant than 2 or 3 memers on reddit that are laughing their ass off by something that is by definition not funny.
The only guy from the staff I asked an opinion and didn''t like it was Yuii- ... Yet his reaction wasn't really appropriate neither. Gonna talk about it here cause it was way too big xD.
I came to him to have a look on my map. He was pretty busy, wasn't really willing to have a look, I politely insisted a bit and he told me (all via IRC) : "Okay, I'll give you a few tips" So he checks the map (Freeze diff) (he doesn't tesplay it). He starts to point out a few patterns...actually circles without explanations. Then after a while. Simply tell me that my map has no flow. I'm like "why? you're the first person who's telling me it, I asked lots of mods and testplays already... I don't understand". He answers me with a really, really vague argument like "Your circles doesn't follow the direction of your sliders" (I'm pretty sure he said exactly this). Also, I know that my hitsounds aren't that good, but he mentionned something that I think it's ok because I took the technique from my favourite mapper (Skystar) and when I explained it to him, he literally laughed at me "skystar LOOOOL" Then ye, he basically said that "my map sucks" and that's it.
Then, on the discussion of the first DQ (about MP3 quality), that guy came out of blue saying "http://puu.sh/nBBL5/039ecd6eff.jpg"
Isn't he supposed to help me instead of saying sarcasm like this????? Nice BNs you have there guys.
All of this to say, that the only guy who could have been revelant... isn't.
The second DQ was just because.. I don't know someone tried to delete all notes, put the music 25% slow and found out that there was a debatable 1/3 section in the middle of nowhere which got fixed by chaning the mp3. (Everyone ignored my argument before that happened).
All I'm saying is that people are making huge deals out of nothing on it. Because they don't like the song (well I was the one who mapped it, I keep the right to map the version I like, especially considering the amount of diff that I HAD TO make and the lentgh of the song), also because they don't like the map maybe (pretty weird, cause I mapped it at the same time than totsugeki, with same style and people seem to like it :') ) But I did what I had to do on this set. I mean, once more, there's not lots of mappers that would give as much as I gave for this. So they're not happy with it? Fuck it. I won't change anything for them, they did nothing, they don't deserve anything from me.
Once more, it's pretty sad to see that memes always get the last word on this game ^^
The ones who say that people who speedrank their maps (despite how good their maps are) can do this cause they gave more effort on their sets than people who can't rank are fucking liars XD
PS: Thanks for your time Okorin anyway. I might change 1 or 2 things from our discussion anyway cause I liked some of your points. Don't get me wrong I know you were willing to help me moving it forward. But this is getting just ridiculous. 10 months I posted every single day in #modreq and after all of this.. This is exhausting. And I'm sorry but I don't care how much you could praise "DQs" to me. I tried but I just can't find anything good out of it.
The only guy from the staff I asked an opinion and didn''t like it was Yuii- ... Yet his reaction wasn't really appropriate neither. Gonna talk about it here cause it was way too big xD.
I came to him to have a look on my map. He was pretty busy, wasn't really willing to have a look, I politely insisted a bit and he told me (all via IRC) : "Okay, I'll give you a few tips" So he checks the map (Freeze diff) (he doesn't tesplay it). He starts to point out a few patterns...actually circles without explanations. Then after a while. Simply tell me that my map has no flow. I'm like "why? you're the first person who's telling me it, I asked lots of mods and testplays already... I don't understand". He answers me with a really, really vague argument like "Your circles doesn't follow the direction of your sliders" (I'm pretty sure he said exactly this). Also, I know that my hitsounds aren't that good, but he mentionned something that I think it's ok because I took the technique from my favourite mapper (Skystar) and when I explained it to him, he literally laughed at me "skystar LOOOOL" Then ye, he basically said that "my map sucks" and that's it.
Then, on the discussion of the first DQ (about MP3 quality), that guy came out of blue saying "http://puu.sh/nBBL5/039ecd6eff.jpg"
Isn't he supposed to help me instead of saying sarcasm like this????? Nice BNs you have there guys.
All of this to say, that the only guy who could have been revelant... isn't.
The second DQ was just because.. I don't know someone tried to delete all notes, put the music 25% slow and found out that there was a debatable 1/3 section in the middle of nowhere which got fixed by chaning the mp3. (Everyone ignored my argument before that happened).
All I'm saying is that people are making huge deals out of nothing on it. Because they don't like the song (well I was the one who mapped it, I keep the right to map the version I like, especially considering the amount of diff that I HAD TO make and the lentgh of the song), also because they don't like the map maybe (pretty weird, cause I mapped it at the same time than totsugeki, with same style and people seem to like it :') ) But I did what I had to do on this set. I mean, once more, there's not lots of mappers that would give as much as I gave for this. So they're not happy with it? Fuck it. I won't change anything for them, they did nothing, they don't deserve anything from me.
Once more, it's pretty sad to see that memes always get the last word on this game ^^
The ones who say that people who speedrank their maps (despite how good their maps are) can do this cause they gave more effort on their sets than people who can't rank are fucking liars XD
PS: Thanks for your time Okorin anyway. I might change 1 or 2 things from our discussion anyway cause I liked some of your points. Don't get me wrong I know you were willing to help me moving it forward. But this is getting just ridiculous. 10 months I posted every single day in #modreq and after all of this.. This is exhausting. And I'm sorry but I don't care how much you could praise "DQs" to me. I tried but I just can't find anything good out of it.
Why did you feel the need to write this? I don't get it, i actually locked myself out of my account fir the weekend so i couldnt come back to resume our little discussion there
Topic Starter
Because if I didn't post this, I would have still be waiting for someone to reply (as it's been 11 months it's the case). And as I said, it's getting exhausting and literally depressing.
This reads like a randomly depressed omg my map got dq'd rant to me, and considering i'm planning to rebubble this i dont get why you posted this now, of all tines
yeah...
bloody hell, like no offense to any of you people out there, but... the only reason why this map got dq'd got fixed (mp3 quality). why can't literally any bn other than yuii- (ESPECIALLY since he is no longer a bn) come up and bubble -> qualify this map??? yo Yales, i legit find this map very fun to play, and i believe most other people do too. just go ahead and ask for a rank! unless something else happened behind the scenes that i have no idea about, there should be no problem with that right??
like, come on, if minakami yuki's maps can get ranked, yours should too right??? by that i mean that your mapping style really resembles their's, not that yuki is a bad mapper (luv your maps <3). just because some booger decided to act like a child, it shouldn't stop you from ranking a good map. that's what xexxar does to hollow wings, and we all know xexxar's attitude to LITERALLY ANYTHING DIFFERENT right?
so please rank this masterpiece!
edit: so til, the official profiles no longer show if a person is a bn or not, so you have to check any of their forum posts to do it.
like, come on, if minakami yuki's maps can get ranked, yours should too right??? by that i mean that your mapping style really resembles their's, not that yuki is a bad mapper (luv your maps <3). just because some booger decided to act like a child, it shouldn't stop you from ranking a good map. that's what xexxar does to hollow wings, and we all know xexxar's attitude to LITERALLY ANYTHING DIFFERENT right?
so please rank this masterpiece!
edit: so til, the official profiles no longer show if a person is a bn or not, so you have to check any of their forum posts to do it.
yuii- is still a bn lol
Topic Starter
Thanks for your comment, this kind is always appreciated. x')AlneCraft wrote:
bloody hell, like no offense to any of you people out there, but... the only reason why this map got dq'd got fixed (mp3 quality). why can't literally any bn other than yuii-(ESPECIALLY since he is no longer a bn)come up and bubble -> qualify this map??? yo Yales, i legit find this map very fun to play, and i believe most other people do too. just go ahead and ask for a rank! unless something else happened behind the scenes that i have no idea about, there should be no problem with that right??
like, come on, if minakami yuki's maps can get ranked, yours should too right??? by that i mean that your mapping style really resembles their's, not that yuki is a bad mapper (luv your maps <3). just because some booger decided to act like a child, it shouldn't stop you from ranking a good map. that's what xexxar does to hollow wings, and we all know xexxar's attitude to LITERALLY ANYTHING DIFFERENT right?
so please rank this masterpiece!
edit: so til, the official profiles no longer show if a person is a bn or not, so you have to check any of their forum posts to do it.
The thing is the map is ready the way it is to me. There's no point to me to keep working on it as a few people told me to do so. ("I'm sure there's more that can be worked out.") I disagree with it, and I won't change stuff just to make some people happy. You could say I'm a blockhead or whatever but I spent enough time on this in a way that it feels ready to me to allow myself to act this way about it.
I mean...this is clearly not fun to me x)
PS: Changed 2 points from Okorin's mod XD
so wanna get back on track or do you wanna write another depressed post? x)
Topic Starter
Both!Okorin wrote:
so wanna get back on track or do you wanna write another depressed post? x)
Anyways, here some adjustements/conclusions I made by following your points.
- AR got boosted by 0.1. I think a higher AR might indeed help with a vast majority of players. Do you think it needs to be setted higher? (I'd like to stay proportionate with other diffs obvisouly). I don't mind mind putting it even higher though but is it fine the way it is or 9.6 won't hurt? What do you think fits the best?
- About adding the other version's MP3, I tried and some parts sounds bad as hell. Shall I still give it away anyway? (If yes, do you actually know someone who could fix the other version MP3's offset?) I guess there's time for it though. I'm not going to change my own version.
- 00:13:662 (6,7,1) - Not changing this pattern because the fact you have to move the cursor by a pretty sharped angle gives enough impact on the new stenza to me. Adjusted a bit the look of it though x)
- 00:16:073 (1,2,3,4) - I find it really fine to play tbh, it's the kind of pattern that I don't even pay attention while playing cause it plays by itself x) Also really like it. I did change this one 03:39:645 (1,2,3,4,5) - as you suggested though, because it was a pretty nice example and offers some variations as well.
- 01:11:787 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Not changing it; It's so cool, come on! xD Also I really have no problem to play it. Not sure if it's because I already know it but it does sound readable to me anyway x) The replays I've checked seemed fine with it as well.
- I think I fixed all of the NCs you suggested as well.
PS: I said it would also be a depressed post:
rebub after some more discussion about various things including salt
01:11:787 (1,1) - Yo, I just wanna throw it out that I needed to memorize this to play it (Literally took me 3 tries lol) :p
02:05:359 (1,2,3,4,1) - If you want a stream here, why don't you start on the white tick, so the slider is extended like the previous ones? (Was a 100 fest for me lol)
Looking forward to see this ranked buddy, so your trilogy is complete :^)
Edit: I saw that you discussed the 1:11 section with oko :p Just feel free to ignore that suggestion then lol
02:05:359 (1,2,3,4,1) - If you want a stream here, why don't you start on the white tick, so the slider is extended like the previous ones? (Was a 100 fest for me lol)
Looking forward to see this ranked buddy, so your trilogy is complete :^)
Edit: I saw that you discussed the 1:11 section with oko :p Just feel free to ignore that suggestion then lol
Topic Starter
Hey,Spork Lover wrote:
01:11:787 (1,1) - Yo, I just wanna throw it out that I needed to memorize this to play it (Literally took me 3 tries lol) :p
02:05:359 (1,2,3,4,1) - If you want a stream here, why don't you start on the white tick, so the slider is extended like the previous ones? (Was a 100 fest for me lol)
Looking forward to see this ranked buddy, so your trilogy is complete :^)
Edit: I saw that you discussed the 1:11 section with oko :p Just feel free to ignore that suggestion then lol
Ya, I have the time to see the slider behind, for sure.
About your second point I think it would sound really bad and out of place ! x.x
Was wondering what happened to this.. I really enjoyed playing the insane diff.. Hopefully it will be ranked soon gl
totally nice map, my staaaars !
(if you want mod/help, just tell me c:)
(if you want mod/help, just tell me c:)
Best Snow Drive map out there, for now at least
Hope to see it ranked some day~
Hope to see it ranked some day~
Topic Starter
Thanks for the support guys. Last BN shouldn't take too long from now.
Qualified! Sorry that this took so long.
Desesperate new BN
I'm not new. xPHappyRocket88 wrote:
Desesperate new BN
eks pee
Looked through threads and I can see how much difficulty did you come through......
Hope it goes well this time!
Hope it goes well this time!
Yay!!!
All these made-up triplets that don't even follow any sort of musical patterning smh. If you want to overmap triplets, you can do it in a way that follows the musical pattern of the song itself, (And that's a bit more complex than "Put a triplet before every big white tick during the chorus). The thing is, parts of this song are rhythmically very simple and you did it right a good chunk of the time, but those just make the random triplets even more confusing. But then you just seem to forget you did it!
Compare 00:54:645 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3) - with 00:58:930 (1,2,3,4) - . They're actually duplicate phrases in the song but they're mapped completely differently. If you want to have additional noises, they have to be consistent so that they are aligned with the music. Let me say that in the first phrase of this section, e.g, 00:54:644 - to 00:58:930 - , you did a good job.
Bonsai tried to go over this with you but you were having none of it, but I'm trying to be polite here. I just find it really weird that you want to have a rhythmically more interesting map by adding triplets and 3/4 sliders and other changes from boring 1/2 spam but then you do that very same boring 1/2 spam for the other half of the map. It's just not following its own rules.
If it's too hard or complex to do it right, you probably shouldn't do it for ranking. Simply following the music and scrapping the idea of additional triplets would (have) increase(d) the quality of the 6* diff at least threefold. Right now, this map is in a very thin area between "Creatively using additional notes to impart rhythm to an otherwise surprisingly beat-empty song" and "Filling empty space with random notes". You want to be in the first category. 02:46:877 (3,4,5,6) - Is in the second.
01:46:609 (3,3,3) - These are still here? Why? You got a better mp3 and everything so you can actually tell that the synth has two distinct beats but you have single 1/8 buzz sliders anyway?
01:49:287 (1,2,3,4) - This especially becomes a problem with these. They're all theoretically following the same instrument, but the first note is just a plain note while the rest are half-length buzzes. (also do mine ears deceive me or is the drum roll for 2 a 1/6 quad? You don't necessarily need to map it, i'm just again shocked that an mp3 upgrade can still be so badly warped)).
02:05:694 (2,3,4,1) - still makes no sense
02:08:707 - 02:08:974 - 02:10:716 - etc Why not map these beats? I just want to understand what choices you're making as to which instruments you're following. I respect your vision of the song, but maps should generally be following the music first, and your vision second. (I'm sure I'll get a couple PMs or posts crying "hypocrite" with regards to routing or felys, but let me remind those buggers that those maps had objects on beats. This map has objects where there are no beats and beats where there are no objects.)
And a really picky one among the rest, 02:16:341 (3,5) - blanket
02:46:877 (3,4,5,6) - Expanding on it being mentioned before, this is weird because the use of 1/1 sliders that skip drums seems to imply that you want this section to be less dense than the rest, which makes sense because it's right after the kiai. I can buy that. I can dig that. It's a good mapping technique. But then you have random 5-note rolls that lie on beats that don't exist.
03:10:716 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2) - I won't even get started on how pretty much half of these beats don't exist, but I will point out that in a few places, such as 03:17:814 - , you have a overlying drum rhythm that is completely ignored. Streams are closely tied together with the drum beat, and not following it is a recipe for disaster. It makes the map really awkward and forces the player to play the map rather than follow the music.
I don't even know if this is a dq mod, there's a lot of words though. What it boils down to is that this mapper seems to be mapping an entirely different song to what is here, only vaguely similar to it, and the player is basically forced to play THAT song, rather than Omoi - Snow Drive. I don't like that, and I personally think that is unrankable, but like i mentioned before, I Am Not A BN/QAT, so I can't force anything, only use words.
Compare 00:54:645 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3) - with 00:58:930 (1,2,3,4) - . They're actually duplicate phrases in the song but they're mapped completely differently. If you want to have additional noises, they have to be consistent so that they are aligned with the music. Let me say that in the first phrase of this section, e.g, 00:54:644 - to 00:58:930 - , you did a good job.
Bonsai tried to go over this with you but you were having none of it, but I'm trying to be polite here. I just find it really weird that you want to have a rhythmically more interesting map by adding triplets and 3/4 sliders and other changes from boring 1/2 spam but then you do that very same boring 1/2 spam for the other half of the map. It's just not following its own rules.
If it's too hard or complex to do it right, you probably shouldn't do it for ranking. Simply following the music and scrapping the idea of additional triplets would (have) increase(d) the quality of the 6* diff at least threefold. Right now, this map is in a very thin area between "Creatively using additional notes to impart rhythm to an otherwise surprisingly beat-empty song" and "Filling empty space with random notes". You want to be in the first category. 02:46:877 (3,4,5,6) - Is in the second.
01:46:609 (3,3,3) - These are still here? Why? You got a better mp3 and everything so you can actually tell that the synth has two distinct beats but you have single 1/8 buzz sliders anyway?
01:49:287 (1,2,3,4) - This especially becomes a problem with these. They're all theoretically following the same instrument, but the first note is just a plain note while the rest are half-length buzzes. (also do mine ears deceive me or is the drum roll for 2 a 1/6 quad? You don't necessarily need to map it, i'm just again shocked that an mp3 upgrade can still be so badly warped)).
02:05:694 (2,3,4,1) - still makes no sense
02:08:707 - 02:08:974 - 02:10:716 - etc Why not map these beats? I just want to understand what choices you're making as to which instruments you're following. I respect your vision of the song, but maps should generally be following the music first, and your vision second. (I'm sure I'll get a couple PMs or posts crying "hypocrite" with regards to routing or felys, but let me remind those buggers that those maps had objects on beats. This map has objects where there are no beats and beats where there are no objects.)
And a really picky one among the rest, 02:16:341 (3,5) - blanket
02:46:877 (3,4,5,6) - Expanding on it being mentioned before, this is weird because the use of 1/1 sliders that skip drums seems to imply that you want this section to be less dense than the rest, which makes sense because it's right after the kiai. I can buy that. I can dig that. It's a good mapping technique. But then you have random 5-note rolls that lie on beats that don't exist.
03:10:716 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2) - I won't even get started on how pretty much half of these beats don't exist, but I will point out that in a few places, such as 03:17:814 - , you have a overlying drum rhythm that is completely ignored. Streams are closely tied together with the drum beat, and not following it is a recipe for disaster. It makes the map really awkward and forces the player to play the map rather than follow the music.
I don't even know if this is a dq mod, there's a lot of words though. What it boils down to is that this mapper seems to be mapping an entirely different song to what is here, only vaguely similar to it, and the player is basically forced to play THAT song, rather than Omoi - Snow Drive. I don't like that, and I personally think that is unrankable, but like i mentioned before, I Am Not A BN/QAT, so I can't force anything, only use words.
edit: disregard this
please Shiirn dont...
Compare 00:54:645 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3) - with 00:58:930 (1,2,3,4) - . They're actually duplicate phrases in the song but they're mapped completely differently. If you want to have additional noises, they have to be consistent so that they are aligned with the music. Let me say that in the first phrase of this section, e.g, 00:54:644 - to 00:58:930 - , you did a good job. I don't think they're duplicate phrases in the song. There's enough of a change in vocal rhythm that I would be fine with the sections being different in rhythm. 00:55:582 (7) - I think removing this and putting a 1/1 gap would work better with the next measure though.
01:46:609 (3,3,3) - These are still here? Why? You got a better mp3 and everything so you can actually tell that the synth has two distinct beats but you have single 1/8 buzz sliders anyway? These fit pretty well imo... The buzzes make sense with the music imo.
02:05:694 (2,3,4,1) - still makes no sense Kinda agree here. But I think the 1/1 gap is also annoying right after a slider-end stream. At least make it a 1/2 slider instead?
02:08:707 - 02:08:974 - 02:10:716 - etc Why not map these beats? I just want to understand what choices you're making as to which instruments you're following. I respect your vision of the song, but maps should generally be following the music first, and your vision second. I think this is up to the mapper though. Generally, with "why are you following this/not this" it's mainly applied to objects on the screen, and rhythm choices. This is a break though... I'll admit the choice is weird, and ending on 02:11:385 - on a weak drum beat is odd too, but i think break choice exists outside the "vocal/instrument" discussion, are just places where the mapper feels a break would work. (I mean, for every break you place, where there are still instruments playing, you wouldn't ask why someone didn't map that section even tho they followed instruments elsewhere.)
[]
My thoughts anyways. Since this is supposed to be a discussion, not strictly a "dq mod".
01:46:609 (3,3,3) - These are still here? Why? You got a better mp3 and everything so you can actually tell that the synth has two distinct beats but you have single 1/8 buzz sliders anyway? These fit pretty well imo... The buzzes make sense with the music imo.
02:05:694 (2,3,4,1) - still makes no sense Kinda agree here. But I think the 1/1 gap is also annoying right after a slider-end stream. At least make it a 1/2 slider instead?
02:08:707 - 02:08:974 - 02:10:716 - etc Why not map these beats? I just want to understand what choices you're making as to which instruments you're following. I respect your vision of the song, but maps should generally be following the music first, and your vision second. I think this is up to the mapper though. Generally, with "why are you following this/not this" it's mainly applied to objects on the screen, and rhythm choices. This is a break though... I'll admit the choice is weird, and ending on 02:11:385 - on a weak drum beat is odd too, but i think break choice exists outside the "vocal/instrument" discussion, are just places where the mapper feels a break would work. (I mean, for every break you place, where there are still instruments playing, you wouldn't ask why someone didn't map that section even tho they followed instruments elsewhere.)
[]
My thoughts anyways. Since this is supposed to be a discussion, not strictly a "dq mod".
Yeah, I'm all for allowing some creative liberty as to which notes a mapper chooses to display. I'm just not able to figure out what kind of theme he's trying to make. It's not coherent. For what it's worth, this map isn't exactly unrankable, I just think it's trying to do something special and failing at it due to the mapper having a difficult time pulling off the tricks he's trying to make.
Hence why I haven't reported it. I'm fairly neutral here, but I want a polite discussion on the pros and cons of inconsistent mapper vision. Routing had that problem, but had a different kind of vision going on. It was taking liberties with spacing and click patterning, rather than deciding which notes to map and which not to.
Hence why I haven't reported it. I'm fairly neutral here, but I want a polite discussion on the pros and cons of inconsistent mapper vision. Routing had that problem, but had a different kind of vision going on. It was taking liberties with spacing and click patterning, rather than deciding which notes to map and which not to.
Topic Starter
About the triplets not following anything, I suppose you’re talking about those 00:12:725 (6,7,1,2,3,4,5) -? (as Bonsai pointed them out). Honestly I don’t know what you don’t get in that kind of pattern. For the first one, I’m emphasizing that first big white tick as you said, and then the second one 00:13:261 (3,4,5) –is here because this is exactly the same sound than that first one. Hence I’m putting another triple to show it. Obviously, I won’t do it the whole map constantly because it would be a full triple map, and it probably wouldn’t fit anymore as it would be overdone. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to spice up the map a little bit like that. It does fit and I think it makes that music repetition fun to play. (Got laughed at by Bonsai with this explanation, but I still maintain my position).
About 00:58:930 (1,2,3,4) –I wouldn’t say the music is a repetition of 00:54:645 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3) -. The intonation is different and the music itself feels less sharpened. Also, even though I could put the same rhythm I don’t think it’s a bad thing to offer some variations to the player. The map, despite being 100% consistent, is structured. And if I changed the rhythm here, it’s most likely because there’s a transition there 00:57:858 (1) -.
Besides, there is no strict rule for a mapper to use a consistent rhythm from the beginning to the end of a song.
About 01:46:609 (3,3,3) -, yes it’s still there and will always be. I’m not following the beats. It makes sense with the music and fits well. Also, I find pretty funny to see that Omoi accentuated it even more in the last version of the song. It makes me even more confident about some of my rhythm choices (and no, I didn’t listen the final version first lol).
For 01:49:287 (1) –there’s actually a cymbal on this one that allows me to stick with a single circle as I usually did on this section. A slider would also be unreadable by the way.
02:05:694 (2,3,4,1) –As Monstrata said (thanks for your intervention btw), an empty gap would be quite annoying after the intensity of that part. And would feel… well… quite empty. Also, take it the way you want but while people are busy complaining on how that music version is noisy, I personally take advantage of it. (Same applies for 03:10:716 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2) – where the music kinda goes in multiple directions at once).
02:46:877 (3,4,5,6) – is actually more tricky, and could indeed call for a discussion as it is already more blatant. About this overmap, the principle is the same though. I’m keeping a fast pace on a speed part (full of 1/1, yes). I do agree that, despite the fact it doesn’t follow my own logic, just a single circle wouldn’t sound bad. On the other hand I don’t think that my own version sounds bad neither. Yes it’s overmapped, but with those drums/whistles hitsounds it sounds pretty neat to me, also on a song like this, where drum rolls are hidden a bit everywhere, it doesn’t sound out of context neither and it plays just fine as it’s not really hard to get the purpose of it. I mean… ya, I like the way it sounds and I’m actually pretty glad I’ve found it lol. It’s a filler that, for once, fits well (... to me. But if you look at all the mods, nobody but you and Bonsai really mentionned it).
02:08:707 – etc. If I made a break here it’s just because the melody totally drops at this point. Yes there’s still some beats but it feels quite empty and actually a bit awkward to play because of the gap between 02:08:974 –and 02:10:716 - .
Once more, the reason I highlight some parts by overmapping or something, it’s most likely because even If I map on beats, I don’t map the beats. And I’ve just realized that this break is a proof of it by itself. I could have mapped them because there’s nothing else, and I wanted to do it at the really beginning but then, I didn’t like the render because of the emptiness of that part.
I didn’t get your point on 03:17:814 (3) –sorry. And I’m not really sure to get what’s not fitting.
Also, just for the record, you had like 5 months (it stayed bubbled for a month) to point this out. Why would you wait last time minute (and also the home stretch for that matter)? :c
About 00:58:930 (1,2,3,4) –I wouldn’t say the music is a repetition of 00:54:645 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3) -. The intonation is different and the music itself feels less sharpened. Also, even though I could put the same rhythm I don’t think it’s a bad thing to offer some variations to the player. The map, despite being 100% consistent, is structured. And if I changed the rhythm here, it’s most likely because there’s a transition there 00:57:858 (1) -.
Besides, there is no strict rule for a mapper to use a consistent rhythm from the beginning to the end of a song.
About 01:46:609 (3,3,3) -, yes it’s still there and will always be. I’m not following the beats. It makes sense with the music and fits well. Also, I find pretty funny to see that Omoi accentuated it even more in the last version of the song. It makes me even more confident about some of my rhythm choices (and no, I didn’t listen the final version first lol).
For 01:49:287 (1) –there’s actually a cymbal on this one that allows me to stick with a single circle as I usually did on this section. A slider would also be unreadable by the way.
02:05:694 (2,3,4,1) –As Monstrata said (thanks for your intervention btw), an empty gap would be quite annoying after the intensity of that part. And would feel… well… quite empty. Also, take it the way you want but while people are busy complaining on how that music version is noisy, I personally take advantage of it. (Same applies for 03:10:716 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2) – where the music kinda goes in multiple directions at once).
02:46:877 (3,4,5,6) – is actually more tricky, and could indeed call for a discussion as it is already more blatant. About this overmap, the principle is the same though. I’m keeping a fast pace on a speed part (full of 1/1, yes). I do agree that, despite the fact it doesn’t follow my own logic, just a single circle wouldn’t sound bad. On the other hand I don’t think that my own version sounds bad neither. Yes it’s overmapped, but with those drums/whistles hitsounds it sounds pretty neat to me, also on a song like this, where drum rolls are hidden a bit everywhere, it doesn’t sound out of context neither and it plays just fine as it’s not really hard to get the purpose of it. I mean… ya, I like the way it sounds and I’m actually pretty glad I’ve found it lol. It’s a filler that, for once, fits well (... to me. But if you look at all the mods, nobody but you and Bonsai really mentionned it).
02:08:707 – etc. If I made a break here it’s just because the melody totally drops at this point. Yes there’s still some beats but it feels quite empty and actually a bit awkward to play because of the gap between 02:08:974 –and 02:10:716 - .
Once more, the reason I highlight some parts by overmapping or something, it’s most likely because even If I map on beats, I don’t map the beats. And I’ve just realized that this break is a proof of it by itself. I could have mapped them because there’s nothing else, and I wanted to do it at the really beginning but then, I didn’t like the render because of the emptiness of that part.
I didn’t get your point on 03:17:814 (3) –sorry. And I’m not really sure to get what’s not fitting.
Honestly, I just mapped it as I always do. Actually, even more cautiously than I usually do as I particularly care of my Omoi maps. And if I ended up working myself to death to make a full spread designed to contain a 6 stars diff it’s most likely because I was more than satisfied about this map. Not that it is perfect, far from it. But you know… I just like what I’ve made, and actually quite a lot of people encouraged me to rank this map, and not another one (like maybe a one that would fit the song better from your point of view). So it wasn’t like too hard or too complex to me to map. However, I would lie if I wouldn’t say that your points don’t make it complicated, although I know why I mapped it this way. I suppose it’s just hard to explain it with words sometimes. I get you want me to improve that map, but I don't want to change stuff that I judge fundamental on this map. Like reworking a whole section was no go from the start, and it's just out of question on an ending project. But in any case, I’ll keep your advice, I will, for sure, think twice before trying to rank anything else. If I actually retry to do something like that. lolShiirn wrote:
If it's too hard or complex to do it right, you probably shouldn't do it for ranking.
Also, just for the record, you had like 5 months (it stayed bubbled for a month) to point this out. Why would you wait last time minute (and also the home stretch for that matter)? :c
why the fuck do people keep saying thisYales wrote:
Also, just for the record, you had like 5 months (it stayed bubbled for a month) to point this out. Why would you wait last time minute (and also the home stretch for that matter)? :c
the "home stretch" is EXACTLY when maps are supposed to come under the most scrutiny and attention from modders
its not like "haha yes im going to wait until the 6th day of qualification and post a huge mod calling his map shit xdddddd", because realistically no one is like that (i hope)
Topic Starter
It was just a simple question. That still sounds pretty legit to me by the way because Shiirn knew the map as it got unqualified the second time pretty much by him.Tatsuyu wrote:
why the fuck do people keep saying thisYales wrote:
Also, just for the record, you had like 5 months (it stayed bubbled for a month) to point this out. Why would you wait last time minute (and also the home stretch for that matter)? :c
the "home stretch" is EXACTLY when maps are supposed to come under the most scrutiny and attention from modders
its not like "haha yes im going to wait until the 6th day of qualification and post a huge mod calling his map shit xdddddd", because realistically no one is like that (i hope)
Anyways, this was just a really, really small detail in my answer. And it's nothing to make a huge deal of.
I mentioned the triples and the incoherent theme before, and they weren't dealt with, so I'm mentioning them again.
I repeat: I'm not actively trying to DQ this map. I have not asked any QAT to DQ this map, only to promote discussion - you should consider yourself lucky such a discussion is taking place during qualification, seeing as the normal standard is "DQ first then discuss" which is bullshit in my opinion.
I repeat: I'm not actively trying to DQ this map. I have not asked any QAT to DQ this map, only to promote discussion - you should consider yourself lucky such a discussion is taking place during qualification, seeing as the normal standard is "DQ first then discuss" which is bullshit in my opinion.
A discussion is exactly that: just a discussion. If you're going into one with the intention of forcing a change, then you're probably going about this wrong. I think it's fine to mention these triplets, and what you believe to be incoherent themes, but don't go into a discussion expecting a change xD.
Good luck in qualified Yales. This is indeed the home stretch where everyone will be scrutinizing your map before it becomes forever immortalized.
Good luck in qualified Yales. This is indeed the home stretch where everyone will be scrutinizing your map before it becomes forever immortalized.
omoi vocal version is horrible, but this map is fking 10/10
Finally Yales, you deserved it <33333
Finally Yales, you deserved it <33333
could always add that araki version in the description tho
congratz!!!!!!!!!!!
at last
at last
Download with 720P Video. Source video is proceed and fixed by me.
http://puu.sh/qbTOA/2a737251ca.osz
Video is 57MB
You might want add it to description if you like it :/
http://puu.sh/qbTOA/2a737251ca.osz
Video is 57MB
You might want add it to description if you like it :/
Topic Starter
Added, thanks for your work man, I really appreciate.Shad0w1and wrote:
Download with 720P Video. Source video is proceed and fixed by me.
http://puu.sh/qbTOA/2a737251ca.osz
Video is 57MB
You might want add it to description if you like it :/