It doesn't. Also Bonsai suggests to use AR 7 for all diffs
forum
Epik High - Fly
posted
Total Posts
80
Topic Starter
adapted
snapped breaktimes properly haha
rechecked, nothing much changed
Topic Starter
Many thanks, guys.
Congratz~ ٩( 'ω' )و
Ayy Congratulations mate 
!
!spooky.....
Topic Starter
scary.....?
spooky.....
scary.....?
Topic Starter
YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO SAY "SKELETONS"
Zetera wrote:
"SKELETONS"
skeletons
Shohei Ohtani
I'm not even going to rant because honestly from the previous things you seem unwilling to really listen to anybody about why AR7 easies are a bad thing, guising it as an "experiment" (kind of like why everyone just ignores high CS when it's literally just so gimmicky).
So uhhhh
yeah
you could have at least chosen a song that doesn't already have an existing map
an existing map that is easily one of the most well-created maps in the game
lmao
maybe i will kill myself today
ar7 D:
Looked at a few replays from people who are clearly beginners at osu (under 50 total pp). Players who knew how sliders worked, and were generally on rhythm could react very well to the AR. Players who didn't know how sliders work (instantly moved the cursor to the end of the slider instead of following the ball) tended to do poorly.
Imo, this concept works well for new players who are coming here from other games. If you look at pewdiepie's replays on his youtube, he's always clicking too early because the AR is too low. People with a background in gaming would benefit from a higher AR on lower diffs because they are able to react to the significantly lower approach rate. I also think the AR is still high enough to train "rhythm" even among beginners.
If you want to be really technical, AR 6.8 (930 ms) fits slightly better because the AR will align almost perfectly with the tempo of the song. AR 7 = 900ms approach rate. The song's bpm is 128 so you get 1872ms per measure, or 936 ms every half measure (2/1 rhythm).
Imo, this concept works well for new players who are coming here from other games. If you look at pewdiepie's replays on his youtube, he's always clicking too early because the AR is too low. People with a background in gaming would benefit from a higher AR on lower diffs because they are able to react to the significantly lower approach rate. I also think the AR is still high enough to train "rhythm" even among beginners.
If you want to be really technical, AR 6.8 (930 ms) fits slightly better because the AR will align almost perfectly with the tempo of the song. AR 7 = 900ms approach rate. The song's bpm is 128 so you get 1872ms per measure, or 936 ms every half measure (2/1 rhythm).
Shohei Ohtani
A disqualification has been requested!
With this being said, I have to add that multiple people have complained about it with more concerns:
In addition to that, I have to add that the current AR on Easy and Normal takes the rhythm-centered structure of the game away and makes it more reaction-centered, hence the original concept of a rhythm-game is taken away. Easy difficulties have to be beginner-friendly, and this is where your AR7 concept fails.Krfawy wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/950640
May I ask how is it that possible to use AR7 in the easiest difficulty if:
A) it's not a marathon map
B) it would work better with AR2 or AR3
C) it is clearly not okay when it comes to play it
D) newer players aren't usually able to read anything above AR5 or AR6
Clearly, I am asking about standard mode.
With this being said, I have to add that multiple people have complained about it with more concerns:
- Players who are still learning general concepts of the game will not be able to read it at all
- The high AR does not work with low velocity and spacing values, making gameplay feel broken and forced
Now let me put some personal notes and thoughts.
[General]
[General]
- Please, get rid of extra transparency in your .png files, I do not think they serve any purpose.
- Slider Tick Rate seems to be making little if any sense with the main rhythm you follow as you're constantly following 1/1 rhythm.
- Since we are talking AR changes, this could benefit from AR 5 or 5,5. For SV/DS matching purposes. This should deliver more comfortable gameplay.
- I also do not support the concept of spacing changes in this difficulty, as I believe it to be too much of a difficulty jump from Easy to Normal.
Example: 03:03:027 (2,3,1) - - 1/4 usage there also causes a lot of questions. For example, we cna have a look at 02:28:105 (4,1) - that requires quite a lot of rapid (for the target skill level player) reaction and in comparison with the Easy we are having a huge difficulty gap.
this should be the fail-background tbh
I like how there are several people (like Monstrata right up there) showing that Easy-players can actually handle AR7 very well and then Krwafy's post is literally only saying "The AR clearly doesn't work bc it's too hard." ..
imo it is definitely still beginner-friendly, but the thing with taking away the rhythm-aspect is probably true yeah : \
if you want to show how 'creative' you are you should make sure who you make your maps for first, and a map's playability is supposed to be made for as many people as possible.
basically every top player likes ar10 since it's nice to read so can we put ar10 on all extra maps? the answer is obvious, because there are a lot of players who want to play with the most appropriate setting.
so my opinion is no.
basically every top player likes ar10 since it's nice to read so can we put ar10 on all extra maps? the answer is obvious, because there are a lot of players who want to play with the most appropriate setting.
so my opinion is no.
Topic Starter
I am currently not at home, so I will address this DQ later on.
But, quite frankly, I am not motivated to adapt to the requested changes, not because I reckon they are not sensible, but rather because of this very, very rude attitude some users have brought up in reaction to the map. Is it so hard to stay elaborate when addressing an issue, to not offend someone for trying something unusual and out of the meta? Come on, we are civilised humans, right?
This goes to you, Reditum.
But, quite frankly, I am not motivated to adapt to the requested changes, not because I reckon they are not sensible, but rather because of this very, very rude attitude some users have brought up in reaction to the map. Is it so hard to stay elaborate when addressing an issue, to not offend someone for trying something unusual and out of the meta? Come on, we are civilised humans, right?
This goes to you, Reditum.
Topic Starter
Bakari wrote:
A disqualification has been requested!Answer to Krfawy's arguments: I do not see how you can make these judgements when in reality, there is no comparison. Time Bomb does not count as an example, since its density and OD are completely different. So your points on functionality and easier gameplay are nullified, because I am fairly sure you cannot tell whether it is okay or not due to a lack of maps that follow my principle.Krfawy wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/950640
May I ask how is it that possible to use AR7 in the easiest difficulty if:
A) it's not a marathon map
B) it would work better with AR2 or AR3
C) it is clearly not okay when it comes to play it
D) newer players aren't usually able to read anything above AR5 or AR6
Clearly, I am asking about standard mode.
In addition to that, I have to add that the current AR on Easy and Normal takes the rhythm-centered structure of the game away and makes it more reaction-centered, hence the original concept of a rhythm-game is taken away. Easy difficulties have to be beginner-friendly, and this is where your AR7 concept fails. I can agree on this aspect. Seni and I had a conversation over this and I know about what I am doing with that high AR. However, I chose not to DQ the set myself, since the other difficulties of the set are realising the exact opposite, to display how I do care about rhythm. Therefore, I assumed it is justified to have the lower diffs also have AR7, just to have beginners realise how the connection between object and music is set up. With that knowledge, players were supposed to handle the higher diffs with relative ease, at least accounting for the step from Easy to Normal or Normal to Hard.
If this can absolutely not be agreed on, I am of course willing to change the AR for the lower diffs, while I want to keep the low AR on the highest diff because of the additional challenge.
With this being said, I have to add that multiple people have complained about it with more concerns:Having this said, we want you to reply to these concerns, so we can have the discussion going in some productive direction.
- Players who are still learning general concepts of the game will not be able to read it at all This is what I have discussed in my comment on Krfawy's points. How do we know it is not actually supporting them? Monstrata gave the example of PewDiePie playing in his video and pressing way too early on, which is exactly what drove me to try this.
- The high AR does not work with low velocity and spacing values, making gameplay feel broken and forced What if it was slightly adjusted, lowered, to make this more adequate?
Bakari wrote:
Now let me put some personal notes and thoughts.
[General][Easy]
- Please, get rid of extra transparency in your .png files, I do not think they serve any purpose. If you are talking about the SB files, then my b, I am very bad at graphical editing. I might as well just delete the storyboard, for it was made j4f.
[Normal]
- Slider Tick Rate seems to be making little if any sense with the main rhythm you follow as you're constantly following 1/1 rhythm. I intended to make it consistent, but I'll change that if you insist.
Hope this can get addressed as well!
- Since we are talking AR changes, this could benefit from AR 5 or 5,5. For SV/DS matching purposes. This should deliver more comfortable gameplay.
- I also do not support the concept of spacing changes in this difficulty, as I believe it to be too much of a difficulty jump from Easy to Normal.
Example: 03:03:027 (2,3,1) - Yeah, since I mainly don't have those in the Hard either, I proceeded to fix that.- 1/4 usage there also causes a lot of questions. For example, we cna have a look at 02:28:105 (4,1) - that requires quite a lot of rapid (for the target skill level player) reaction and in comparison with the Easy we are having a huge difficulty gap. There is one part that I cannot really deal with other than using 1/4 sliders (01:30:449 - ), but I got rid of most the 1/4, primarily the ones that were in that post-kiai part.
The highest I can agree on now is 4,5. If you're up for experiments, try it for both E and N. So, we are still trying higher velocity for E and keeping things low on Normal. Kinda like the thing you do with Hard/Insane.
Topic Starter
Can you agree on 4.5/5/6.5/7?
I'd go 5 5 7 7
To keep lower diffs as one block and higher diffs as one
Im suggesting 5 because the original experiment was with ar 8 so i think this woukd lose its meaning if it was reduced to something lower than 5
To keep lower diffs as one block and higher diffs as one
Im suggesting 5 because the original experiment was with ar 8 so i think this woukd lose its meaning if it was reduced to something lower than 5
Topic Starter
That would also sound okay to me, we still got higher AR on the lower diffs.
Sad that it won't have much of an effect then. Monstrata suggested AR6.8 and made a good point as to why it was optimal. Can you consider this?
Sad that it won't have much of an effect then. Monstrata suggested AR6.8 and made a good point as to why it was optimal. Can you consider this?
Fair enough.Zetera wrote:
Can you agree on 4.5/5/6.5/7?
Sole 6.8 would mean practically no change at all and still keep our concerns valid.
Topic Starter
Alright, implemented a normal ar spread and fixed everything according to your post. Sad to see that I can't go on with my experiment.
Sad to see that this is forced to be changed, as I personally doubt that there is a valid concern. There were tests and people even said why it can work, all you do is blindly say "Beginner players can't play it". It makes me sad that people blindly follow the star rating, or the wiki even, without really trying to understand the other partys concerns.
I prefer waiting for more opinions and hopefully get it back in a compromised way, but definitely not as drastic as it is right now.
I prefer waiting for more opinions and hopefully get it back in a compromised way, but definitely not as drastic as it is right now.
At least 50% of the recent Easy Difficulties nowadays aren't beginner-friendly.Bakari wrote:
Easy difficulties have to be beginner-friendly
This doesn't even matter in this case, because this diff is for sure beginner-friendly.Stefan wrote:
At least 50% of the recent Easy Difficulties nowadays aren't beginner-friendly.Bakari wrote:
Easy difficulties have to be beginner-friendly
that is interesting mappset...
Hello there Zetera
awesome song here, I have a few points I wanted to drop that disturbed me while I played your map
A I R
00:00:449 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - the disign here, 15 seconds break (only one on the whole difficulty) right after the start after just 2 seconds of play is irritating for replay-ability. It's kind of okay if you going to play difficulty just one time but will become tiring to wait if player want to achieve some records and going to replay difficulty over and over. The second point here is reasoning - there is no reason to place break here music-wise i.e. music phase, player rest, consistency (I can explain in details why if this is not obvious). Possible solutions will be remove 00:00:449 (1,2,3,4,5,1) or map break.
00:18:964 (1) - heavily aligned to lyrics but misses the next syllable along with the strong music beat on 00:19:199 () Possible solution here will be to follow both
00:24:355 (6) - clickable 00:24:589 () - will be great way to reflect really strong lyrics emphasis here
00:26:230 (9,10) - creative upbeat placement itself but with no support from the music\hitsounding. All the lyrics and music starts from 00:26:699 (1) Consider to stress this with hitsounds.
00:33:496 (6,7) - double just for the sake to be double. Next note placed on 00:33:964 (8) - makes this double stand-alone from main rhythm thus there is no reason to skip 00:33:730 () rhythm-wise. Also 00:33:730 () - is important in reflecting music\lyrics.
00:39:824 (1) - same as 00:24:355 (6) . Triple syllables 00:40:292 () - 00:40:527 () - 00:40:761 () - will be better reflected with 3 clickable objects. Like you did with 00:41:699 (1,2,3,4) -
01:40:761 (7) - this is sounds off because snapping is wrong(there is no music \ lyrics landing on 1/6), and hitsounds on repeat are too strong.
overall quite awesome
do not kd please, since this is not a full mod
Hello there Zetera
awesome song here, I have a few points I wanted to drop that disturbed me while I played your map
A I R
00:00:449 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - the disign here, 15 seconds break (only one on the whole difficulty) right after the start after just 2 seconds of play is irritating for replay-ability. It's kind of okay if you going to play difficulty just one time but will become tiring to wait if player want to achieve some records and going to replay difficulty over and over. The second point here is reasoning - there is no reason to place break here music-wise i.e. music phase, player rest, consistency (I can explain in details why if this is not obvious). Possible solutions will be remove 00:00:449 (1,2,3,4,5,1) or map break.
00:18:964 (1) - heavily aligned to lyrics but misses the next syllable along with the strong music beat on 00:19:199 () Possible solution here will be to follow both
00:24:355 (6) - clickable 00:24:589 () - will be great way to reflect really strong lyrics emphasis here
00:26:230 (9,10) - creative upbeat placement itself but with no support from the music\hitsounding. All the lyrics and music starts from 00:26:699 (1) Consider to stress this with hitsounds.
00:33:496 (6,7) - double just for the sake to be double. Next note placed on 00:33:964 (8) - makes this double stand-alone from main rhythm thus there is no reason to skip 00:33:730 () rhythm-wise. Also 00:33:730 () - is important in reflecting music\lyrics.
00:39:824 (1) - same as 00:24:355 (6) . Triple syllables 00:40:292 () - 00:40:527 () - 00:40:761 () - will be better reflected with 3 clickable objects. Like you did with 00:41:699 (1,2,3,4) -
01:40:761 (7) - this is sounds off because snapping is wrong(there is no music \ lyrics landing on 1/6), and hitsounds on repeat are too strong.
overall quite awesome
do not kd please, since this is not a full mod
The plane tickets are getting expensive, so we decided to fly our private jets and had a lovely conversation about this set.
Changes:
We also agreed on 5/5/7/7 as an experiment thing, please do not use this set as an example unless you are 100% aware of what you are doing!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll be back tomorrow! Hopefully we'll make people happy with the 5/5/7/7 thingy!
Changes:
- Minor appearance fixes
- Slight rhythm improvements
- Spacing changes in Normal
Log
21:15 Bakari: Hello there!
21:28 Zetera: Hi!
21:28 Zetera: Sorry, was searching my house for something edible.
21:28 Bakari: Hope you've found something
21:29 Zetera: Sorta, yeah
21:29 Bakari: Anyways, what do you think about using AR4.5 for both E and N
21:29 Bakari: and 7 for H/I
21:29 Zetera: So, i did what you wanted, decreased the spacing in the normal, fixed the tickrate, got rid of the storyboard and implemented the AR spread.
21:30 Zetera: I think 5 for the E/N is a good approach to my assumption and your regulation.
21:30 Bakari: Just like Oko said, we'd have two blocks of difficulties, and still somewhat keep the experint to the point where we could happily have it ranked
21:31 Zetera: There's just this one thing that kind of bothers me.
21:31 Bakari: I feel like a monster, but 4,5 would be closer to Ar7 in terms of scaling
21:32 Bakari: Hard has the AR that is just right and comfortable, while Insane has it slower than the recent standards require
21:32 Bakari: Same would be with E/N and Ar 4,5
21:32 Zetera: I am wondering if it actually alienates the experience if I choose a higher AR, going away from the rhythm game mechanic to a reaction-based gameplay.
21:32 Zetera: I mean, I thought I found a value that beginners could handle easily.
21:33 Zetera: Since I haven't seen any late clicking in the replays.
21:33 Bakari: Well, take the same PewDiePie let's play as an example
21:33 Bakari: Do you see why he was clicking so early?
21:34 Zetera: What I figure is that he clicked too early because there was too much on the screen for too long.
21:34 Zetera: Another idea is that he did not focus on the music at all.
21:35 Bakari: I personally was pretty sure it's the second option
21:35 Zetera: But isn't this somehow connected?
21:37 Zetera: I am not sure whether implementing high AR takes this away or actually supports the development process.
21:37 Zetera: More than that, I am even confident that both can happen.
21:37 Bakari: I'm quite far from concepts of teaching, but I think that making players react on objects rather than adjust to the rhythm is what AR7 does
21:38 Bakari: And when they get decent scores for reactions, rather than rhythms
21:38 Bakari: Players adjust to whack-em-all mechanics, rather than learn how to keep the rhythm
21:39 Zetera: But that is only one assumption.
21:39 Zetera: The contrary to that is that players come to know the right timing much earlier and they then adapt to other maps.
21:39 Zetera: I'm thinking "introduction", not "advancement".
21:40 Zetera: Also, we don't know if they will adapt that whack-em-all mechanic or if they will be able to assign rhythm better to the objects. I hope you can understand what I mean, as my explanations are horrible.
21:41 Zetera: But basically, this is why I wanted to see this ranked with the stats they were qualified with
21:41 Zetera: To see what influence this has on players
21:41 Zetera: However this is pretty hard without any comparison
21:42 Bakari: I kind of get it, yeah. But I still want it to be lowered to a reasonble point, where you would see the impact higher AR would have
21:42 Zetera: Makes sense, but is there a lower value that does exactly that?
21:43 Zetera: I reckon that 4.5 is not enough.
21:43 Bakari: 4,5 on the easier two diffs is somehow equeal to AR7 for H/I diffs
21:43 Zetera: How come?
21:44 Zetera: Also, AR7 looks very slow, which was my goal for the higher diffs, but not for the lower ones.
21:45 Bakari: It looks just alright on Hard, though :p
21:46 Bakari: and we would have something similar running with E/N diffs (if we count 4,5 as comfortable AR for the Easy)
21:47 Bakari: Comfrotable, as this would still require faster clicking, while working relatively well with SV and spacing
21:48 Zetera: Come on, let's make it 5 so there's less waiting involved.
21:48 Zetera: 5/5/7/7.
21:48 Bakari: Are you sure?
21:50 Zetera: Hm, how do I say this..
21:50 Bakari: Sure you want to tyr it?*
21:51 Zetera: When we choose AR4.5, I figure there will be more of a time frame that newer players might do hit errors in than when using 5, while both are still values that are easily recognizable.
21:51 Zetera: This is why I thought 7 is also okay, but you said it looked disruptive.
21:52 Zetera: Because I assumed 7 is also well-readable for beginners.
21:52 Zetera: Well, hoped*, not assumed*
21:52 Zetera: So I am pretty confident that 5 works.
21:52 Zetera: Though I was also confident 7 was okay.
21:52 Bakari: Alright, here's the thing
21:53 Bakari: Let's go hrough the set, I'll make sure the rest is good to go
21:53 Zetera: Okay, I'm ready
21:54 Zetera: Got to update once more though.
21:54 Bakari: When we are over with it I'll try to get used to AR5 and think it over
21:54 Bakari: If I have no more questions, I'm bubbling it no problem
21:54 Bakari: I'll have to provide the log, though. Hope this is fine with you!
21:54 Zetera: Sure thing.
21:56 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/950640 Epik High - Fly [Easy]]
21:57 Bakari: 01:02:324 (1) - can we move the tail a little bit down, mainly for appearance, but also to make sure nobody clicks the tail by mistake
21:58 Zetera: Oh, good idea!
21:59 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/898114 Epik High - Fly [Normal]]
22:00 Bakari: 00:18:730 (2,1) - have you guys tested the jumps on low ranked players as well?
22:01 Bakari: I have a feeling they wouldn't drop off them, but rather go all the way, failing hard
22:01 Zetera: No, I did not test that.
22:03 Bakari: the drop-off concept is more of an advanced thingy
22:03 Bakari: that I don't really expect to be picked by players at these stages of growing
22:04 Zetera: True, I figured slider-100s are not too likely here, since it's only a 1/1 slider.
22:04 Zetera: I adjusted that and restructured the diff up to 00:29:980 - .
22:04 Bakari: 00:37:011 (3,4) - I assume that these guys might also need some attention
22:04 Bakari: 00:41:230 (4,1) - whoa, x2.0 is a pretty serious thing here
22:05 Zetera: Ctrl+g on 00:37:011 (3) -
22:05 Bakari: 00:46:386 (1,2,3) - this is relatively fine in terms of spacing
22:06 Bakari: however, when you visually place them in such a vai, it suggests a 3/2 gap between (2) and (3)
22:07 Bakari: 00:58:574 (1,2,3) - this is a creative idea, if there is a way to make it used in a hard, please try it there?
22:07 Zetera: What do you suggest instead?
22:09 Bakari: move (3) away, so the spacing change still can be felt here, but it's not that obvious visually
22:09 Bakari: http://puu.sh/oxOKK.jpg
22:10 Zetera: Okay, tried that.
22:13 Bakari: 01:22:949 (1,2,3) - love this. simplem neat and works great with the vocals
22:14 Zetera: Thank you. c:
22:14 Bakari: 01:42:636 (3) - I love this one and it seems to be readable due to sliderticks
22:15 Bakari: The question is, do you think players will be able to pick the slowdown well?
22:15 Bakari: 02:07:480 (4,1) - somethingsomething
22:16 Zetera: The slowdown is not too harsh, it is well visible and there are not too many sliders used in the previous bit, so I'd say the slowdown is just fine
22:17 Bakari: 02:27:636 (3,4) - you probably know it
22:17 Zetera: Used Ctrl+G
22:17 Bakari: well, if you think is fine, I will agree with you on that one
22:17 Bakari: Ctrl+G sometimes affects hitsounding, have a look into that as well, while we are at it!
22:17 Zetera: I always do, no worries.
22:18 Bakari: 02:53:886 (3,4) - a tiny spacing increase to make sure nobody reads it as 1/4 would help out a lot!
22:19 Bakari: 02:54:824 - also, I would probably try to make that beat here clickable by placing a circle or arranging the following (5) in some way
22:19 Zetera: Done and I added a NC because it includes the first beat of the next period
22:19 Zetera: I used a sliderend because it was a 3/4 slider + a circle before.
22:21 Zetera: Okay, used a 1/1 instead and a circle at the big line, that one now carries a NC
22:21 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/625661 Epik High - Fly [Hard]]
22:22 Bakari: how about making 01:00:214 (1) - the beat here a bit more stressed with a jump and a bit of rhythm changes? http://puu.sh/oxPyr.jpg
22:24 Bakari: 01:37:011 (1) - as the previous sliders had only one repeat, this one took me by surprise
22:24 Bakari: not sure if it's just my rusty skills or a thing that you'd want to change, so you decide on this one
22:25 Zetera: You got a point, but a fix involves using a triplet at some point, so I am sort of reluctant to do that.
22:25 Bakari: Well, to be fair I still got a 300 there :p
22:26 Zetera: Oh, by the way, I kept the pattern that you liked in the normal, the one with the repeat slider at the end, since Hard now has a new, harder concept.
22:26 Bakari: Good!
22:26 Bakari: 01:40:761 (4,5) - you'd be surprise to find out that Insane has a easier pattern here :p
22:26 Bakari: surprised*
22:27 Bakari: Insane has a single slder while Hard has a circle+slider
22:27 Zetera: But here, it only uses one repetition.
22:30 Zetera: I mean, I could also use only the slider, but I found that to be awkward.
22:30 Zetera: I'll do it anyway.
22:30 Bakari: Up to you, you are the creator here
22:30 Bakari: 02:05:136 (5,1,2) - can we have more things like that? <3
22:31 Zetera: Oh, you like that one?
22:31 Zetera: I didn't even like that myself LOL
22:31 Zetera: Was some kind of emergency solution
22:31 Bakari: It's cool, flows really nicely
22:31 Zetera: Yeah, flow was the first priority.
22:34 Zetera: Are the other instances of that okay as well?
22:34 Bakari: Sure!
22:36 Zetera: Okay, changed the things I agreed to.
22:39 Bakari: Air is a lot like a flying in dreams, fantasy-like, smooth and everybody would want to try it once again after finishing
22:39 Bakari: Update things
22:39 Zetera: That was a really great compliment, thanks a lot c:
22:40 Zetera: Okay, updated.
22:40 Zetera: Oh wait, the AR.
22:40 Zetera: I'll ask once more. Are you fine with 5/5/7/7?
22:41 Bakari: Yeah
22:41 Bakari: I've nothing else to add
22:41 Zetera: Alright, I'll use that then.
22:42 Zetera: okay, done.
22:43 Zetera: I was not sure which of your posts I should reward you for, should I go for the post with this log?
22:45 Bakari: I guess so
22:45 *Bakari is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/898114 Epik High - Fly [Normal]]
22:45 Bakari: 00:58:574 (1,2,3) - can we somehow lower spacing changes there, though? It'll be sad to see it changed, but I think it needs to be done
22:45 Zetera: Did I miss something?
22:45 Zetera: Oh, of course.
We also agreed on 5/5/7/7 as an experiment thing, please do not use this set as an example unless you are 100% aware of what you are doing!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll be back tomorrow! Hopefully we'll make people happy with the 5/5/7/7 thingy!
Topic Starter
Thank you, Sieg and Bakari.
I will look at your mod tomorrow, Sieg.
I will look at your mod tomorrow, Sieg.
It surely is, no question. It's more about the argument I can't really agree because clearly harder Easy maps gets ranked constantely without issues.Irreversible wrote:
This doesn't even matter in this case, because this diff is for sure beginner-friendly.
This new modding system makes it so people actually can submit their concerns
I've always wondered under what basis people choose AR's and SV's for lower diff maps. I think that aligning AR with object rhythm makes more sense than picking an AR because other difficulties use that AR. We all know that an acceptable range for Easy is 2-4, Normal, 4-6, Hard, 6-8. We usually select an AR between these ranges based on BPM (If its below an arbitrary number sat 160 bpm we use AR 3 on Easy, if it's above, 3.5 etc...). If anything, this set is trying to challenge this tradition of assigning AR's based on difficulty.
AR 5 is good. it covers 1200 ms. But try AR 5.2 too. Reasoning is that 234ms = 1/2 a beat (white to red/red to white). 234 x 5 = 1170 ms which is 2 and 1/2 a beat on this song. AR 5.2 gives exactly 1170 ms of approach rate, which is rather convenient. I don't know if the 30 extra ms is necessary. Since you guys are experimenting with higher AR's, I think picking AR's that sync with the song would give an even stronger argument for your AR choice.
Anyways, nice to see people challenging this low-AR tradition xD.
AR 5 is good. it covers 1200 ms. But try AR 5.2 too. Reasoning is that 234ms = 1/2 a beat (white to red/red to white). 234 x 5 = 1170 ms which is 2 and 1/2 a beat on this song. AR 5.2 gives exactly 1170 ms of approach rate, which is rather convenient. I don't know if the 30 extra ms is necessary. Since you guys are experimenting with higher AR's, I think picking AR's that sync with the song would give an even stronger argument for your AR choice.
Anyways, nice to see people challenging this low-AR tradition xD.