Sieg wrote:

that is interesting mappset...

Hello there Zetera
awesome song here, I have a few points I wanted to drop that disturbed me while I played your map

A I R
00:00:449 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - the disign here, 15 seconds break (only one on the whole difficulty) right after the start after just 2 seconds of play is irritating for replay-ability. It's kind of okay if you going to play difficulty just one time but will become tiring to wait if player want to achieve some records and going to replay difficulty over and over. The second point here is reasoning - there is no reason to place break here music-wise i.e. music phase, player rest, consistency (I can explain in details why if this is not obvious). Possible solutions will be remove 00:00:449 (1,2,3,4,5,1) or map break. Good point. This concept was however taken straight out of the already existing mapsetwhere it did not cause any inconvenience and maping this would take the character of the part after the second kiai away. Because I want it to be a specialty, I don't want to map the break and removing the pattern will neglect this important part.
00:18:964 (1) - heavily aligned to lyrics but misses the next syllable along with the strong music beat on 00:19:199 () Possible solution here will be to follow both

SPOILER

I assumed that you wanted me to map the downbeat with a clickable object, and I did that now.
00:24:355 (6) - clickable 00:24:589 () - will be great way to reflect really strong lyrics emphasis here also changed
00:26:230 (9,10) - creative upbeat placement itself but with no support from the music\hitsounding. All the lyrics and music starts from 00:26:699 (1) Consider to stress this with hitsounds. added hitsounds to stress the lyrics.
00:33:496 (6,7) - double just for the sake to be double. Next note placed on 00:33:964 (8) - makes this double stand-alone from main rhythm thus there is no reason to skip 00:33:730 () rhythm-wise. Also 00:33:730 () - is important in reflecting music\lyrics. true and fixed.
00:39:824 (1) - same as 00:24:355 (6) . Triple syllables 00:40:292 () - 00:40:527 () - 00:40:761 () - will be better reflected with 3 clickable objects. Like you did with 00:41:699 (1,2,3,4) - True, I just wanted to simplify that part. I changed it so that there are 3 clickable beats now.
01:40:761 (7) - this is sounds off because snapping is wrong(there is no music \ lyrics landing on 1/6), and hitsounds on repeat are too strong. Although I do think that the lyrics are on those 1/3s, I can see how they might be extra confusing so I simplified the pattern by using a 1/1 slider and a circle.

overall quite awesome
do not kd please, since this is not a full mod

CDFA wrote:

So I'll do an actual mod post.

Okay, first off, I used the hitsonds copier made by grumd. Super helpful tool, but it does not inherit all sounds that are placed in the original difficulty (e.g. sliderwhistles are completely neglected). Without those, a lot of the original quality will obviously go lost. I understand this but I didn't care. Not that someone has actually complained (more or less properly), I accept that I did a mistake without hesitation. However, this does not mean that the whole mapset needs to be dragged into crap, be it AR issues or just the hitsounds. I'd like you to consider thinking about your approaches and to make them less offensive. This is just a map.

So I'm open to discussing the neccessity for low AR. However, the biggest issue I had with the high AR in the easy is that it had NO relation to the SV. AR puts a mental expectation on the speed of the map, and the distance of things. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/252238 <- this map has AR10 (or something, I'm too lazy to check the specifics, but it's fast), and the beginning plays fucking retarded because like these things are coming out of nowhere and you're building up the expectation that the rest of the map will move fast, but then it's "hurr durr slow." Granted, this is a different case because this is a matter of not having multiple ARs in a map, but still, it's relevant to this. A couple other people have addressed the relation between SV and AR being a bit off and I can see how it is weird. However, the SV is not so fast that this relation can be called unrankable. Also, the song does not have crazy speed changes such as image material's, therefore the AR should not cause any problems concerning that. There is this part after the second kiai in the last diff, which is questionable, so to make my reasoning proper, I will change one aspect that someone has addressed, being the 1/1 custom stacks that make up for the most significant reading errors.

Now, I'm going to ignore the AR debacle, since while I'd love to spend all of my time on that, I'm aware that I'm really hyper-conservative when it comes to issues like that. So let's just focus on the issues that are being overshadowed by this discussion (primarily the hitsounds I talked about in my last post)

Easy:
00:00:449 (1) - I'm finding that leaving the sliderhead on a soft hotsound but leaving the sliderbody and sliderend on normal hitsounds works really effecitvely.
00:28:574 (1) - Don't put finishes where they don't belong. A lot of the groove of this map is that it's very cut and dry when it comes to the drum pattern. There's not a whole lot of the washyness that comes with cymbal usage. This is more of an issue later but I'll talk about it when I get there. I used the finish to emphasize the shouting in the background. Sure, this doesn't have anything to do with the drums, but there is a sound that can be purposefully mapped with a soft-finish.
00:30:449 (2,3) - To emphasize the "YOU" "CAN", I find that using a drumclap and then a drumnormal is effective. It kinda contradicts what I was saying earlier about the finishes and stuff, but tom drums don't really affect the groove of the music. But I understand if you don't wanna put them in for authenticity sake. I originally preferred the soft whistle because it resembles the "you" sound closer than anything else, but on second thought, the drum sounds might be better structurewise, so I went with those.
00:34:667 (3) - clap? added
00:35:136 (4) - clap on sliderend? One of the examples of hitsounds that the hitsounds copier logically doesn't adopt.
00:41:230 (2) - clappp??? added
00:41:699 (3) - The thing is that you've already established your clap as following the snare drum, so it sounds out of place when you have it suddenly following vocals. I think it'd be cool if you just did drumwhistles instead. Good point, changed in all diffs. However, I left one beat untouched because it is in place of a snare.
00:43:574 (1) - and now you're changing the groove from hitnormals on every large white tick to every tick? If you want to go for a build-up, since this is approaching the kiai, you might want to play more with volume, and make things gradual. DIdn't intend to do a build-up like this, so I ended up changing this into a soft sound.
00:46:386 (1,2) - same suggestion as before with the toms
00:49:199 (3) - So this is going to be a blanket statement for everything else because this is the point where I realized that hitsounds were an issue in this particular mapset. So this song really sparesly uses its cymbals. Which is fantastic, because then the points when they are using it are much more emphasized. What you've done is kind of added your own cymbals, and most important normal-hitfinishes, one of the heaviest hitsounds in the game. They sound mega out of place and are super unneccesary. They weren't that popularised tho throughout the st, I guess I added them as a no-brainer
00:51:074 (1) - And then the claps just kind of dissapear fixed all claps in all diffs.
00:54:824 (1) - and then when finishes actually exist, they're not put in the map ...and all finishes.
01:04:199 - So for this particular section, the hitsounds are just aaaaa. Like, for music of this genre, and a LOT of genres that are popular in osu!, it's built upon a principle that the drums keep a consistent beat, and your hitsounds should reflect that. You've previously established that your hitclaps are being used to emulate the snare drum, which is being hit every 2nd and 4th beat of every measure. When you do things like this, the groove gets messed up and it sounds really weird. It's incredibly inconsistent and doesn't even really do anything to benefit the map since there's nothing indicating that the consistent groove should be changed. This is why whistles, drum hitsounds, and other things exist to be your auxillary hitsounds, so you can use those to emphasize rather than the hitsounds that's being used to keep the groove. drastically limited the claps into a sensible pattern while still maintaining a bit of variation, I hope it is fine like that.
I hate making long mod posts so just kinda apply the general things I've said to the entire diff.
02:32:324 (1,1) - This is like mega boring, to have so much space in between. Especially when it has the higher AR, this must have been a LONG time to just sit and stare at an empty screen. I understand that you wanna follow the backing vocals, but you should do so in a way that consistently keeps the player engaged in the game. Also, a lot of people aren't really fans of "blocky" sliders, but I use them all the time so I won't be the one that will tell you to change them. Be aware of that though. I figured the sliders would cover the most. I added some more by using the downbeats that were previously at the slider ends.

Quick scan through your other diffs

Normal:
I feel like this is more of an advanced diff since this diff has a lot of 1/4 and is significantly faster than the Easy diff. I uhhhhhh. . . I'll let BNs decide on this I guess??????? If I were in the BN I might give you shit about this but since I'm not like idgaf lol I'm tired. Well the way I map is that I downgrade from the highest to the lowest diff, and I somehow didn't do this for the Easy, but patternwise the Normal it in fact something inbetween Easy and Hard,, I'm not making any other classifications. So in my books there is not really a difference between Normal and Advanced if you don't intend to add more than one diff between those two. Thus it wouldn't matter if it was Advanced-ish.
00:28:574 (1) - I use these a lot and I love them, it's become a trademark of my mapping style. The thing that makes these effective are 2 things. (1), that the linkage happens at the endpoint of the 1st slider and the middle of the 2nd slider (which you did), and (2), that there are no overlaps (which you didn't do). The overlaps make an otherwise clean pattern look messy and cramped. Try to adjust something to make the overlap dissapear. The overlap didn't appear as particularly convoluted to me, however the end of the second slider (the circle) was below the track of the previous one. So I made the end of the first slider point towards the second slider and the tracks still override themselves. But the outline of the second slider is clear enough. I did that on multiple other occasions throughout the diff.
01:17:324 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1) - Like since you have this as a break in Easy and you're really not doing much effective things here, why not make this a break as well? I intended to have an ABAB-pattern spread, but you are probably right. It might even help the spread a little.
01:30:449 (1,2,3) - So firstly, hitnormals pls to emphasize this. Percussive effects like these generally benefit from being made hitnormals in a hitsoft map. Secondly, this. . . it's a little confusing since it kind of isn't the rhythm. The rhythm is notated as so in osu! terms ( http://puu.sh/oyivW/2d711f0a81.jpg ). However, that's really fucking hard for a normal diff. So I'd suggest leaving out (3) entirely. It makes (1), (2), and (3) all equidistant, which is kinda cool, and allows players to not have to play guesswork when playing this pattern. I'm not a fan of this since this ignores sounds, but fine. It is much easier to cope with.
03:03:964 - why the change in comboing? Those used to be small jumps.

Hard:
00:00:449 (1,2,3,4,5) - normal hitwhistles are the most invasive of hitsounds, so you really only want to use them when you're at a loud part. A build-up with no drums is not one of those times. Make this a gradual crescendo, since that's what this is anyway lol Made a crescendo with soft sliderwhistles and one normal hitwhistle at 00:01:855 - because it contains a sound that I'd like to emphasize.
01:28:574 (3) - this is just ugly lol okay
02:06:074 (1) - never do this ever. This is the equivalent of getting a food stain on a white shirt. The map is so clean and well crafted and then you just kinda push this slider in and suddenly it looks messy and untridy. I actually got good feedback on this, so I'll keep it. Sorry!

Insane:
00:00:449 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - samsies are hard. Or honestly if you just dropped the volume like 20% or something this might work. As said, I made a crescendo for all diffs.

yeah so uhhhhh I'm hoping the AR debate doesn't kind of overrun the fact that the easy needs a lot of cleaning in terms of hitsoundsing, and a few other things need to be polished. It's an otherwise okay map (the yeahyeahyeahhh version is a personal favorite of mine so I'm gonna always believe that that one is better, lol ).

Fort wrote:

hi zetera

Okorin wrote:

could 02:43:574 (1) - in easy love the hp bar a bit less it just looks really dumb given that you have SO MUCH SPACE to like... not do that lol
thats all
you could have kept the "very simple SB" tbh all you had to do in order to keep it would have been cutting the images properly lol