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Metadata Discussion/Clarification

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sheela
2,651 posts
Joined October 2011
sheela

Alarido wrote:

For this map: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/319965

Not sure on Title and Artist, and possibly Source. In truth, I'm wondering about what anime it would be (even for watching too). I'm sure if anime could be found, the official sites/Producers/musicists would come within (on credits etc).

Found these links (none of them seems official):

> http://www5.atwiki.jp/hmiku/pages/24961.html
> http://vocaloid.wikia.com/wiki/%E3%81%9 ... hite_mo%29
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqEO6HQm2NE (it adds Soraru× to the Artist).

Waiting for...
The artist is a human, like Hanatan and other more utaite, and not any VOCALOID. So the name of the singer, KK, should go in the artist field. The title looks fine, and it doesn't seem to come in any animes because there's a fade out at the end of the track. Which this is probably the mapper that did it. This mapset can be an example.

In conclusion, metadata looks fine. The tags would need more words, like the composer ヘブンズP , Heavenz-P, utaite, and other similar words that should go with the song.
Flask
Beatmap Nominator
3,460 posts
Joined July 2011
Flask
sheela is right

btw, title should be Sore ga Anata no Shiawase to Shite mo, cuz you know, the caps.
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,530 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat

sheela901 wrote:

The artist is a human, like Hanatan and other more utaite, and not any VOCALOID. So the name of the singer, KK, should go in the artist field. The title looks fine, and it doesn't seem to come in any animes because there's a fade out at the end of the track. Which this is probably the mapper that did it. This mapset can be an example.

In conclusion, metadata looks fine. The tags would need more words, like the composer ヘブンズP , Heavenz-P, utaite, and other similar words that should go with the song.
I would just like to give a note to all, that having the singer as the artist isn't always the case, and it's dependant on the song at hand.

This Song comes from the album STAGES. The artist is Heavenz feat.KK
http://stageslive.jp/

SPOILER
sheela
2,651 posts
Joined October 2011
sheela
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/298219

The title has the correct words, but I don't think the capitalization and grammar stuffs are right. According to this Wikia it's Livin a Double Life, and in Wikipedia it's instead Livin' a Double Life (with the apotrophe). I tried to search it in the credits of an episode of The Thundermans, but no luck.

In English the g in some words that ends with that letter can be replaced by an apostrophe. So the last title is correct to me, but I want to know if someone can find the metadata or agree which title is best.

EDIT: I guess it's okay now.
Gero
4,438 posts
Joined March 2012
Gero
Hey, it's me again, someone could help me to find the correct metadata of this song? I'd really appreciate it so much if you guys help me with it, thanks in advance.
Gamu
Elite Mapper
2,606 posts
Joined December 2010
Gamu

Gero wrote:

Hey, it's me again, someone could help me to find the correct metadata of this song? I'd really appreciate it so much if you guys help me with it, thanks in advance.
Please look at this post: p/3817771
It is the correct title if the same song.
About artist, senya or 幽閉サテライト

Also this song has been added in SDVX. http://p.eagate.573.jp/game/sdvx/sv/p/booth_contents/contents_21/contents_21_05.html
If he uses a sound source of SDVX,
Artist: 幽閉サテライト feat. senya
Romanised Artist: Yuuhei Satellite feat. senya
Title: 色は匂へど散りぬるを
Romanised Title: Iro wa Nioedo Chirinuru o
Source: SOUND VOLTEX BOOTH

This is entirely just my own personal opinion.
Cherry Blossom
3,185 posts
Joined October 2011
Cherry Blossom
SDVX should not be the source and added as tag instead. Since it is a touhou remix , the real source (unless this is a remixed version only for SDVX) must be : 東方Project

But I guess both work, because there are already "conflicts" with source between ranked maps like :
LeaF - Wizdomiot and LeaF - Calamity Fortune and they come from the same place. (BMS charts)

That's my opinion.
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,418 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
Hello, I am about to check this map and I have some metadata problem.
For the title "Honey♥Come!! (TV size)", there is an "♥" between Honey and come, we though this was correct to use space between until the new qualified map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/334447 uses "*"
I couldn't find any romanised information of the title on the official website anywhere.
http://www.tbs.co.jp/anime/dande/disc/cd1.html
Can someone help me? Thanks!
meii18
3,577 posts
Joined October 2013
meii18
Well as I can see , this is the japanese title: Honey♥Come!! (TV size)

And the romanised title must be Honey*Come!! (TV size) because on romanised title field you cannot put '♥' nor '☆'.They're replaced with '*' in romanised title field. I hope I helped you
Fycho
Global Moderator
2,480 posts
Joined August 2012
Fycho
I personally think using a space to replace the character is fine.(I prefer space not "*" because “*” would be an extra character that's not provided by official.)
KSHR
Global Moderator
1,668 posts
Joined July 2010
KSHR
Basically what Fycho said.
By the way, the reason why Japanese people replace ☆ with * is, asterisk stands for a small star.
As for the qualified map mentioned by Kuo_Kyoka, it should be fixed imo.


EDIT:
@Kuo_Kyoka: Tell the mapper to add the romanized anime title to Tags (joukamachi no, dandelion is already added). It will help people search the map.

EDIT2:
I'd recommend discussing if it's DQ worthly in #nominators first before DQing it just in case.
Lanturn
osu! Alumni
3,912 posts
Joined March 2012
Lanturn
There are a few maps that use asterisks to represent various characters that otherwise can't be somewhat converted properly. If we knock out hearts, then we should probably knock all of these symbols out. Either or works, but it's never been a DQ issue from what I remember.

So in short. The asterisk is meant to represent a character the romanised field won't accept.

Some examples of * uses
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/598863 with ≠
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/365279 with ♥
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/511087 with × which we commonly use x now instead of *
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/495530 with △
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/519007 with →

idk, my two cents. We kind of had a similar discussion with omitting interpuncts and such too. There are of course, maps that ignore ♥'s and other symbols as well. So it's pretty inconsistent.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Talked with Fycho in game. My two cents anyways.

I think it's better to use "*" to represent characters that can't convert properly. Using a space " " as Fycho suggests, and using * only for representing ☆ seems kind of odd to me. The goal of metadata is to give as much credit as possible to the original source. That's why we see maps being dq'ed even for incorrect capitalization. Using a space pretty much makes it seem like there isn't even a special ≠ or ♥ or × present in the title at all because Players will only see "Honey Come." If we use an asterisk * to represent these characters, it at least acknowledges the fact that there's supposed to be a special character in the title, but due to osu!'s current limitations, cannot be displayed properly.

Basically, if all we do is use a space to represent non ☆ (star) characters, for people looking at the title it'll seem like the special character was never there to begin with. Putting a * at least acknowledges the character's presence even if it cannot be properly displayed.
Kyubey
osu! Alumni
3,097 posts
Joined December 2012
Kyubey
I'd like to stick to the ranked versions just for the consistency in the list of official osu! beatmaps.
KSHR
Global Moderator
1,668 posts
Joined July 2010
KSHR
When searching mentioned songs above by Lanturn, their romanized titles with * are 99% (not 100% because I might have missed something. Sorry for my laziness not to check search results carefully..) shown by osu!. This means it's not common to replace characters such as →♡ with *. Indeed to give as much credit as possible to the original source is the one of important things which everyone agrees with, but to not make people misunderstand something is more important at least imo. (= Using * to replace characters such as →♡ makes people misunderstand there is ☆ in the title)


By the way, "Honey Come!!" is shown in the description on youtube video uplaoded by KING RECORDS.
SPOILER



EDIT: Wait, I didn't notice the map got DQ'd/bubbled lol nvm this post
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,418 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
Thanks everyone for the help :)
The correct title is: Honey Come!! (TV size)
Lanturn
osu! Alumni
3,912 posts
Joined March 2012
Lanturn
Looks like we decided not to use asterisks for symbols?

Makes sense I guess since the asterisk actually gets removed while searching anyways.
ZZHBOY
1,649 posts
Joined April 2012
ZZHBOY
I'd like to discuss a question about the metadata of a map belong to me.
map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/212091
It was a bug caused map with too long artist can't be uploaded successfully. It was be confirmed, more details can be found in t/309634/.
As we see that bug can't be fixed in soon, but I don't want to see my map just lying in graveyard, so this time I want to discuss if too long artist that lead to failed upload can be simplify?
This simplification base on still can let player know artist is what, like this map, if we can use "u's" or "Pile, Mimori Suzuko, Nanjo Yoshino" instead of what be suggested in dq post?

alacat wrote:

Romanised : Nishikino Maki (CV.Pile), Sonoda Umi (CV.Mimori Suzuko) & Ayase Eri (CV.Nanjo Yoshino)[/list]
Gamu
Elite Mapper
2,606 posts
Joined December 2010
Gamu
I think we can remove the anime character name If the artist name is too long.
Recent examples:
・https://osu.ppy.sh/s/346207
・https://osu.ppy.sh/s/338414

So,
Artist: Pile, 三森すずこ, 南條愛乃
Romanised Aritst: Pile, Mimori Suzuko, Nanjo Yoshino
Yuii-
2,502 posts
Joined July 2013
Yuii-
Shouldn't that be considered as a "New Rule" discussion?
Fycho
Global Moderator
2,480 posts
Joined August 2012
Fycho
Yes I agree with Gamu, the rest of artist are unnecessary which causes long-artist bugs, Pile, 三森すずこ, 南條愛乃 already expresses the artists properly. I think we can make this as an exception for the map.
Shiranai
2,186 posts
Joined August 2012
Shiranai
Umm hello,

I want to ask metadata clarification on this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/328597
As we can see, on its title there's some inappropriate words and can be considered as a mature content. My question is, is the curent metadata correct and safe enough to be push forward?

Also the metadata source can be found on its first page

Thanks!
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo

Mako Sakata wrote:

Umm hello,

I want to ask metadata clarification on this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/328597
As we can see, on its title there's some inappropriate words and can be considered as a mature content. My question is, is the curent metadata correct and safe enough to be push forward?

Also the metadata source can be found on its first page

Thanks!
It's safe. NSFW Lyrics or Metadata have never been a problem
Akasha-
Nomination Assessment Team
4,418 posts
Joined April 2013
Akasha-
Hello everyone, i would like to discusses about this metadata of this map: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/381888
The mapper (so does me) is confusing about the romanji title and artist of this map, we don't know which is the correct one
Thank you in advanced!
KSHR
Global Moderator
1,668 posts
Joined July 2010
KSHR
Let me post my quick opinion as it seems like a no-brainer to me.

The artist should be fine as he calls himself that on his twitter, website etc. Search him with "桜華P ohka" and you will find his stuff.
As for the title, Reimu is the most possible romanised title imo (more like I have no idea how it's read other than Reimu). Well, I'm 10000% sure the current one is incorrect.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Hello there, I have a question about romanization of title in one of my sets.

The set: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/829077

So, the original title has been confirmed already (source), it's トゥー・チー・チェン シークレットカクレンジャー TEKINA Remix
The question I have tho is how should it be romanized? I've asked Loctav about it and:


so I'd be thankful if someone Japanese of fluent in Japanese would confirm that for me.
Gamu
Elite Mapper
2,606 posts
Joined December 2010
Gamu
I think "トゥー・チー・チェン" means "都志见(dou1 zhi4 jian4)", and it is the Chinese pronunciation.

http://www.jcdic.com/search.php?pagenum=14&up=1&lang=&searchtext=%E9%83%BD

Unfortunately I cannot read the Chinese, so I don't know correct romanization....
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
shionelove brought up a good point in the thread (https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4842049)
The トゥー・チー・チェン is the "artist",都志見 隆's another name, we just happened to misunderstand the soundcloud title due to not knowing Japanese and thought that's just title and artist is labeled as DJ'TEKINA//SOMETHING when it was both original artist and title in the song name. Due to that I've changed the artist and title accordingly and that should be correct now.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
Yea, what shionelove said makes sense.
Also, I have an opinion on the romanisation of the artist. How about just romanising it as "Tou Chi Chen"? As the name is replicating a Chinese name and Chinese people normally have their Chinese names translated without hyphens, e.g. 姚明 > Yao Ming or 劉翔 > Liu Xiang.

Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Thanks for the feedback! It's all good now.
KSHR
Global Moderator
1,668 posts
Joined July 2010
KSHR
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/400859


The original song title is,
Unicode: とある小国のお姫様が、会ったこともない兄の家にやってきて住みついた事情。
Romaji: Toaru Shoukoku no Ohimesama ga, Atta koto mo nai Ani no Ie ni Yattekite Sumitsuita Jijou.


Some of you guys might realize what I'd ask here..
Apparently the mapper, Lami can't upload the map due to BSS error that says the title is too long. For now, the map has been submitted with the omitted title, Toaru Shoukoku no Ohimesama ga... However since we have never experienced the error caused by the title, I'm also unsure if it's allowed.


How do you think we should handle this?
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
The limitation of osu! is going to stand for a while, so we can only get rid of the error by altering the title, something similar to the Artist.

Ways that can shorten the title is either deleting or paraphrasing the title to something with fewer characters. The latter method seems conflicting with the ranking criteria to a greater extent. So, what I suggested several days ago to Lami was submitting the title before the "、", on both Unicode and Romanised Titles. Is it a sentence fragment or does it make sense if we cut it half? Any other alternatives? As I can hardly think of some other ways to make it shorter because of my superficial knowledge of the Japanese language.
KSHR
Global Moderator
1,668 posts
Joined July 2010
KSHR
Oh I didn't know you talked with him. Well I also can't think of other ways to make the title shorter other than cutting it like you said.
The title shortened by cutting the original half is "お姫様が、/Ohimesama ga," which is just the subject (= It's a sentence fragment, yes). However since it includes the particle がput after the subject, at least we Japanese can easily understand that it's a part of the sentence.
In conclusion, I'd say the current title "お姫様が... / Ohimesama ga.." should be the best.

I'm not the one who can make a decision. However if there is no objection, I'd tell the mapper and other BNs who will check the map that the current title is fine.


Thanks for your quick response, KwaN.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
I have an inquiry about the suffixes of songs.

Note: All the screenshots are from official sites.
  1. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/410476

    There is a typo in this screenshot, the title should be Melty Moment (having a space in between) according to this from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDVQlY7A2ig or this from http://www.ceui.jp/disco/.
    Do we use "Melty Moment short.ver" or "Melty Moment" as the Title?
    　
  2. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/390807

    "言葉のいらない約束" or "言葉のいらない約束 TVサイズ? Probably we won't use the title from iTunes, レコチョク & mora, as they aren't official.
    　
  3. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/225202 & https://osu.ppy.sh/s/162996

    "killy killy JOKER" or "killy killy JOKER TV size"?
I hope a conclusion can be drawn so that we do not hesitate to use suffixes for songs in these cases. Thank you!
Fycho
Global Moderator
2,480 posts
Joined August 2012
Fycho
Suffixes should be used as it's provided by the official site, and we already add these suffixes after title sometimes.

1. Melty Moment short.ver
2. The official admits releases from iTunes, レコチョク & mora, so all are fine. And https://osu.ppy.sh/s/313239
3. killy killy JOKER TV size

Just my thoughts.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN

Fycho wrote:

Suffixes should be used as it's provided by the official site, and we already add these suffixes after title sometimes.

1. Melty Moment short.ver
2. The official admits releases from iTunes, レコチョク & mora, so all are fine. And https://osu.ppy.sh/s/313239
3. killy killy JOKER TV size

Just my thoughts.
I do agree we can use suffix for all the above maps.

However, for the second song, which suffix (言葉のいらない約束 TVサイズ or 言葉のいらない約束(TV size)) do we prefer? Do you mean if the official websites link iTunes, レコチョク or any other similar sites, the suffix should be treated as official? That means Amazon is acceptable too.
SPOILER

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/313239 - This map actually has a wrong metadata, there's no space in between.
SPOILER




Fycho
Global Moderator
2,480 posts
Joined August 2012
Fycho
Yes, 言葉のいらない約束 TVサイズ and 言葉のいらない約束(TV size) both are accpetable imo, it's not a reason to dq such stuffs.

If official site provides other sites, then these title are all choosable.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN

Fycho wrote:

If official site provides other sites, then these title are all choosable.
Any objection on this? As it's a fresh concept that I have never heard of, probably different from or even contradicted to the standard of official references we quoted in the past.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
You can't really measure the official-ness of a site. If both sites are official, but their metadata differs, you should be able to use either one because in both cases you would be quoting from an official source. Whichever you choose, you will misquote from the other source, and saying one source is more accurate than another is often subjective.
IamKwaN
osu! Alumni
3,905 posts
Joined August 2012
IamKwaN
We are not measuring the official-ness of a site, we are simply determining if a site is official or not. It is a yes-or-no question, instead of a quantitative issue.
Everything found on official sites is acceptable as the metadata of the song. So, we are discussing whether iTunes or Amazon is official.
For your information, the reason why we did not treat them as valid official references is p/3341872 .
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