This thread has exactly the response I expected for such a proposition. There shouldn't be any reason to enforce an even longer minimum drain time, just as there should be no reason to enforce a maximum unless it breaks scoring.
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[Rule] The minimum draining time for a map must be 1 minute
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Disallow sub 1 minute cut songs, yes.
Disallow songs that just arent 1 minute long? Why the heck would you?
I strongly disagree and I think many people have already said what I'd want to say, so there's that.
Disallow songs that just arent 1 minute long? Why the heck would you?
I strongly disagree and I think many people have already said what I'd want to say, so there's that.
Disagree with this.
some game BGM is not long, with the same rhythm repeating, so mappers need to cut it
some songs is just short
and that's just favourtie time long, as a rhythm game we need different kinds and different long songs for players to choose.
some game BGM is not long, with the same rhythm repeating, so mappers need to cut it
some songs is just short
and that's just favourtie time long, as a rhythm game we need different kinds and different long songs for players to choose.
Shohei Ohtani
Ok since this discussion is pretty much closed until Loctav replies. . .
So whats the issue with cut songs? Besides "getting the full experience", i see no issue with cutting a song down manually if someone doesnt want to do the full thing.
Its what I did with my happy beatmap (at work, so hard to link and stuff). I cut the song because the end is boring and repetitive. I dont think many people want to play the same thing over and over again. Even when i map songs, i always copy-paste the 2nd chorus (if theres 3 or more) because its super repetitive and boring.
So whats the issue with cut songs? Besides "getting the full experience", i see no issue with cutting a song down manually if someone doesnt want to do the full thing.
Its what I did with my happy beatmap (at work, so hard to link and stuff). I cut the song because the end is boring and repetitive. I dont think many people want to play the same thing over and over again. Even when i map songs, i always copy-paste the 2nd chorus (if theres 3 or more) because its super repetitive and boring.
I for one thoroughly enjoy short maps. Just because a song's length isn't long doesn't mean it can't be challenging. And like others have said. Diversity is needed in a rhythm game.
As much as I hate ridiculously short maps, if that's how the song is, then yes, they're free to go ahead. If it's a blatant lazy ass cut, please don't even try, you're consuming time that could be used on maps that truly deserve it.
PS: If you're going to map short songs, please map stuff worth of it.
PS: If you're going to map short songs, please map stuff worth of it.
Same here. Cutting longer songs to the point where they are just under 1 minute implies laziness, and then again I think there isn't really a point to cut a song that short.Yauxo wrote:
Disallow sub 1 minute cut songs, yes.
Disallow songs that just arent 1 minute long? Why the heck would you?
I strongly disagree and I think many people have already said what I'd want to say, so there's that.
However, songs that are originally <1 minute in length should be allowed, because it's the real version of the song, and it doesn't make sense to disallow us to rank the original version of a song (except when it is under 30 seconds, where it starts to get ridiculous).
I can't see why should we rely on a poll that doesn't even relate to the rule change you are proposing, to be really blunt...
No
Just No
I have one ranked and one dq'd map of less then 1 minute, 4 pending maps of less then one minute drain
Most of them are video game OSTs
They are loops.
Hey, let's loop the song a boring 8-9 times so it is +1 minute
No one is waiting for that
I however, do agree a cut shouldn't be made if it makes the songs under 1 minute
Just No
I have one ranked and one dq'd map of less then 1 minute, 4 pending maps of less then one minute drain
Most of them are video game OSTs
They are loops.
Hey, let's loop the song a boring 8-9 times so it is +1 minute
No one is waiting for that
I however, do agree a cut shouldn't be made if it makes the songs under 1 minute
maybe corret the rule
"map below 1 min is only for ost game (loops and repeating).invalid for cutting song ( from 3 min cut to 50 second)"
idk what am i talking about -__-
"map below 1 min is only for ost game (loops and repeating).invalid for cutting song ( from 3 min cut to 50 second)"
idk what am i talking about -__-
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^baraatje123 wrote:
No
Just No
I have one ranked and one dq'd map of less then 1 minute, 4 pending maps of less then one minute drain
Most of them are video game OSTs
They are loops.
Hey, let's loop the song a boring 8-9 times so it is +1 minute
No one is waiting for that
I however, do agree a cut shouldn't be made if it makes the songs under 1 minute
Plus, I have a 40s taiko map that was kinda close to rankablity :/
I disagree. Some songs are originally less than 1min. Why should we care about the length so much?
seems that everyone disagree, so what about a rule that discourage cutting and extending a song instead? for example to avoid having people cutting or extending a song to be really short or to archive 5 mins for a marathon diff. And allow legit <1 min songs (even tho is lazy lol)
I disagree as well.. there are plenty of songs that shorter than 1 min and i don't see why they wouldn't be rankable
At least I ranked U.N. Owen Was Yee before this, I know everyone wants to play that.
from my side I really do not mind much that a song being to let's say 75% mapped but the examples I gave got exactly one verse and one refrain. Which is imo the issue we allegedly have for > 1 minute maps. There are indeed cases where people cut them until below one minute which isn't good but tbh I felt this issue everytime when I played a map to a song which isn't completely mapped and could have been done. Happy may be really repetitive but others did also managed it to map repetitive things well. And many people still enjoy playing them rather than just a "part" of it.Reditum wrote:
Ok since this discussion is pretty much closed until Loctav replies. . .
So whats the issue with cut songs? Besides "getting the full experience", i see no issue with cutting a song down manually if someone doesnt want to do the full thing.
Its what I did with my happy beatmap (at work, so hard to link and stuff). I cut the song because the end is boring and repetitive. I dont think many people want to play the same thing over and over again. Even when i map songs, i always copy-paste the 2nd chorus (if theres 3 or more) because its super repetitive and boring.
tl;dr: Naturally short songs should be rankable. Cut-offs to shorter songs (below five minutes) shouldn't.
I may open a thread to the point above after this one here.
I like short beatmaps they are funny to play with friends in multiplayer but my preference is longs beatmaps (5-7miin).
Please do not remove short beatmaps
Please do not remove short beatmaps
All maps should have the right to be ranked no matter the length.
#mapequality #sizedoesntmatter
#mapequality #sizedoesntmatter
Shohei Ohtani
As much as I'm against people cutting their songs to be under 1 minute draining time, I'm totally against making songs that are just simply 30 seconds long unrankable. Just take my pupa mapset for example as a song that is 30s long as the full version and looping it would be quite annoying to be honest.
So yeah, I'm against banning these songs completely but I'm for banning cuts to achieve a length under one minute.
So yeah, I'm against banning these songs completely but I'm for banning cuts to achieve a length under one minute.
Why would it be a good idea to remove short maps ? they are a part of the game after all
I have an ending song from an anime which have under 1 minute and honestly,I disagree with this rule ;_;
If this rule will be applied,I couldn't rank that mapset for example. Some songs have under 1 minute and some mappers really want to rank those.
If this rule will be applied,I couldn't rank that mapset for example. Some songs have under 1 minute and some mappers really want to rank those.
Pretty much this is exactly what is the problem. Short maps should be allowed to qualify unless it is a not the original version (thus unofficial cut by mapper).DakeDekaane wrote:
As much as I hate ridiculously short maps, if that's how the song is, then yes, they're free to go ahead. If it's a blatant lazy ass cut, please don't even try, you're consuming time that could be used on maps that truly deserve it.
PS: If you're going to map short songs, please map stuff worth of it.
As a mapper I want to be able to map songs even with a drain less of 1 minute. We are doing all the work to get it mapped, modded and get it through the ranking process. If it's ranked and a few people don't want to play it, it's not our problem. There are enough people who are enjoying play short maps, and that's the most important thing as a mapper - See that people enjoy it. Short drain time doesn't make the quality of the beatmap worse!
Short maps are part of the game, and it's not hurting anybody, so I don't see any reason making maps under a minute "unrankable", especially when there are countless songs that just aren't longer than thirty seconds, which would only make people loop it for a chance to get it ranked.
I think a rule where cutting the audio file makes it unrankable is a more viable option, preventing people from cutting a part of a song instead of using the entire song like it was originally intended, and that if a song is looped, cutting it would not break the rules, as long as it's exactly identical.
I think a rule where cutting the audio file makes it unrankable is a more viable option, preventing people from cutting a part of a song instead of using the entire song like it was originally intended, and that if a song is looped, cutting it would not break the rules, as long as it's exactly identical.
Within 500 unique people, 51 voted below 30 seconds (so ~10% of those people) and 92 between 30 seconds and 1 minute (almost 20%).
So you want to prevent those let's say 15% of the community from playing maps they would potentially enjoy because the other 85% may not? That's sick.
What's wrong with playing short songs from time to time? It can be refreshing sometimes. Also, it'd kill the diversity of the game, some songs are below 1 minute and can't be looped (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/8393 https://osu.ppy.sh/s/14282 just some random examples) yet are fun to play.
Also, don't tell me that those maps are very common, on the first page of ranked maps (so out of 40 maps), I counted 4 maps that are below 1 minute of drain time (including 2 where the song is actually below one minute). Saying that this is filling all the free slots in the qualified section is quite a lame excuse. If you don't like it, don't play it, people have enough material to play and have fun even if they skip those maps.
Yet I'd would agree that cutting a song that is like 3 minutes into something that is less than 1 minute makes no sense and should be prevented with a guideline.
So you want to prevent those let's say 15% of the community from playing maps they would potentially enjoy because the other 85% may not? That's sick.
What's wrong with playing short songs from time to time? It can be refreshing sometimes. Also, it'd kill the diversity of the game, some songs are below 1 minute and can't be looped (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/8393 https://osu.ppy.sh/s/14282 just some random examples) yet are fun to play.
Also, don't tell me that those maps are very common, on the first page of ranked maps (so out of 40 maps), I counted 4 maps that are below 1 minute of drain time (including 2 where the song is actually below one minute). Saying that this is filling all the free slots in the qualified section is quite a lame excuse. If you don't like it, don't play it, people have enough material to play and have fun even if they skip those maps.
Yet I'd would agree that cutting a song that is like 3 minutes into something that is less than 1 minute makes no sense and should be prevented with a guideline.
"You" should consider adding new members to (what I presume is) your osu! Board of Directors if you could not see why this is such a bad idea. It's never helpful to show hints that there is a massive disconnect with your player-base, even if deep inside you mean absolutely no harm.Loctav wrote:
We do not see a reason anymore to factually allow beatmaps to be Ranked that are not at least 1 minute long of active play time (aka drain time)
If this is going to be implemented, then does that mean currently qualified maps will remain in that state until ranked, or be immediately disqualified for this rule?
I knew that this discussion was going to end up like this the minute I heard about it earlier. I'm a strong opponent of this (regardless if I have two 30 second beatmaps ranked). Why inhibit the fun players could possibly have on 30sec-1min beatmaps due to a shoddy poll? Just because I didn't vote for 1 minute and under, doesn't mean I don't "factually" enjoy them.
Instead of misusing such poll information, use it in a manner that benefits the entire community, such as the lengths of the songs that are chosen to be bundled into the game.
Instead of misusing such poll information, use it in a manner that benefits the entire community, such as the lengths of the songs that are chosen to be bundled into the game.
people dont even have to come up with reasons why <1 minute songs should be able to stay rankable. the reasoning behind this rule is faulty in itself.
Topic Starter
Let's fix the proposal up to the arguments brought up by others in this thread to the following:
Does that wording make sense?
The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
Does that wording make sense?
That seems completely acceptable to me.
I can live with that. By far better than currently.
I agree with that.
Let's take the case of Mao's pupa to test this wording:
the mp3 he mapped is the opening for the short anime. It's version as it is played in there is probably exactly 30 seconds by adding a weird spinner in the end (note the taiko set of it got to ranked without doing that).
There does exist, however a full version of the song which is 3:27 in length.
Does that wording allow for the 30 second version to be mapped because it is officially used that way somewhere, or do you have to stick to the full version because of the wording suggested by this rule?
I could also take the I MY MINE - Troublemaker as an example as it is the exact same thing except the full version is 4:28.
the mp3 he mapped is the opening for the short anime. It's version as it is played in there is probably exactly 30 seconds by adding a weird spinner in the end (note the taiko set of it got to ranked without doing that).
There does exist, however a full version of the song which is 3:27 in length.
Does that wording allow for the 30 second version to be mapped because it is officially used that way somewhere, or do you have to stick to the full version because of the wording suggested by this rule?
I could also take the I MY MINE - Troublemaker as an example as it is the exact same thing except the full version is 4:28.
I didn't even notice they released it now. However, this is a good point.Okoratu wrote:
There does exist, however a full version of the song which is 3:27 in length.
Generally tough, this wording is much better in my eyes.
then what about songs that are 1:12 but tze actual drain is 0:50 ? Would people then be forced to map 1 minute drain, which could potentially mean that the mapper would have to figure out how to map the intro/outro or possible breaks that have little to no beat density? Or does this only apply to cuts?Loctav wrote:
Let's fix the proposal up to the arguments brought up by others in this thread to the following:The minimum draining (play) time for a map must be 30 seconds. If the full version of a song is longer than 1 minute, the minimum draining (play) time for the map must be 1 minute. This is so each map gives a sufficiently long gameplay experience. It also prevents people to cut songs too short for no reason, thus stopping people from enjoying the song in a proper way.
Does that wording make sense?
I'd prefer it to be a hard minimum of 45 seconds and the recommended to be 1:00. 30 second songs do exist, but in the context of this game and the administration it seems like a large amount of invested time for the mappers, modders, BN, and QAT for such a short experience. I'd rather have more focus on longer songs/maps that will bring more entertainment vs. time invested.
Because it's not a cut ver. it should be allowed to have 0:50 drain.Snaggletooth wrote:
then what about songs that are 1:12 but tze actual drain is 0:50 ? Would people then be forced to map 1 minute drain, which could potentially mean that the mapper would have to figure out how to map the intro/outro or possible breaks that have little to no beat density? Or does this only apply to cuts?
This new version of the rule is better yeah, since it just force to avoid cut version. Sounds good.
Well then it should be worded diffrently. A songs full version can be over 1 minute, dosnt mean the drain is. it should specifically state that this only applies to cuts.Nozhomi wrote:
Because it's not a cut ver. it should be allowed to have 0:50 drain.
This new version of the rule is better yeah, since it just force to avoid cut version. Sounds good.
No. i mostly Play only Short Maps ( i like to enjoy short songs, and get a little fun than playing a 1 day map that it ended like a job ( oh finally its done )
Damaged ears/eyes/hands/nerfs/ ( waste of time ) .
Damaged ears/eyes/hands/nerfs/ ( waste of time ) .