combo color is extremely minor and mostly irrelevant
ar point is dumb, as monstrata said 9 is best considering the bpm and density
the claps are mildly additive, but they still fit well with the song and help give a better sense of timing during it

absolutely contest, i don't see a single thing that would warrant this.

Combo colour is so minor and irrelevant so I find that this is a pretty unreasonable dq and believe you should contest this. Keep up the good work with your mapping!

combo color fits very well with the background...

Alright I will contest. If you have any complaints/points you think could help me, please feel free to post here or pm me, they would be a tremendous help!

I will post the official reply here for clarity, unless there is some rule that prevents me from sharing the contest publicly (I don't see it in the rules though).

Hide your maps
Hide your PP
The QATs are coming

Also such a small issue being the cause for disqualification when it's so close to rank is like a shot at the players imo

[Contesting this Disqualification]

monstrata wrote:

Addressing the first point: "- The dark blue combo colour blends with the BG, which makes the hitobjects in that part unreadable. "

First of all, calling the combo color "unreadable" is a complete overstatement. The combo color complements the background very well, And does not blend with the background. The main concern here is the area on the top/left of the screen where the dark-blue is most prominent. Here are some pictures. These were all taken with background dim set to 0%.
http://puu.sh/itSm7.jpg This first image shows a circle which is very much readable.
http://puu.sh/itSpU.jpg This one shows a slider, also very much readable.
http://puu.sh/itSCu.jpg Lastly, here is the approach circle for 00:08:323 (4) - on the Normal difficulty, which is right in the middle of all the dark-blue color. The approach circle is clear and visible.

Additionally, the dark blue in the background is gradient towards the top and also contains yellow and white colors around it for contrast. The background is not a single color but a mixture of many, so I find it very difficult to believe that this combo color is "unreadable".

Regarding: "- AR9 in Insane does not fit in the spread and feels forced. . High AR breaks the spread and makes hitobjects hard and unpleasant to read."

AR9 definitely fits the spread. Please consider that Hard is AR 8 and Magi (Extra) is AR 9.2. The AR fits the spread very well. Magi uses a slightly higher AR because I used an extensive amount of 1/2 circle jump patterns within the difficulty. Having less objects on the screen makes it cleaner and also fits the difficulty of an Extra. Hard uses AR 8 because while there is 1/2 rhythm, jumps are very minimal. AR 8 complements the BPM of the map.

Additionally, AR9 does not feel forced at all. Actually, it is very much necessary. The Disqualification post seems to imply that AR9 is too high, which I have to disagree with. The BPM is 189 which is on the high end of most anime tv-size maps. Furthermore, I employ a lot of 1/2 jump rhythm in Insane so reducing the AR would create more note density on the screen for players. On Insane places like 00:44:514 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - and 01:22:609 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
really need AR9 to be played well. Because of my extensive use of not just 1/2 rhythm, but 1/2 jump patterns, the AR complements the difficulty and does not feel forced.

Regarding "- The soft hitclaps you used in Insane and Magi from 00:11:497 to 00:30:545 - do not suit this song in an appropriate way as these hittsound have no support in the song. The same happens in Normal and Hard from 00:21:656 to 00:30:545 We'd like you to find another solution, by adjusting the hitsounds."

The soft-hitclaps provide consistent feedback for players during this calmer section of the song. I decided it was fine not to use soft-hitclaps on Easy because the note density was low enough that players could still receive adequate hit-sound feedback from playing the objects. On Normal I decided to have the first part of the intro omit the hit-claps and instead begin placing them after: 00:21:656 - to create a build up effect. Much of this song is about build up, especially after 00:31:815 - and onward until the Kiai at 00:52:132 - .

The use of soft-hitclaps work well with the music in creating a consistent rhythm for players. Without them, Insane and Magi definitely would not have enough hit-sound feedback for players to maintain rhythm. As captin1 mentioned. : "the claps are mildly additive, but they still fit well with the song and help give a better sense of timing during it." This is especially noticeable in Magi because even though SV is lowered, object density only drops slightly.

On Magi, 00:25:942 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - and 00:23:243 (2,3,4,5,6,1) - and 00:12:767 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Are just examples of places where 1/2 rhythm and consecutive 1/2 circle jumps are still very much apparent even though the section is slower due to the 0.75x SV.

On Insane, places like 00:18:323 (2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - also contain a lot of 1/2 rhythm. Because of areas like this, the claps are necessary to support the rhythm and give adequate feedback. Hitsounding only these areas would also create inconsistencies that contribute to a sense of disjointedness.

Regarding "other solutions", I strongly believe this is the best solution. Simply omitting as I mentioned earlier, would contribute to a severe loss in player feedback. Other solutions, as I have been suggested, included using soft-whistles in place of the claps. However, I am already using soft-whistles so a different hitsound would be conducive to better feedback variety throughout this section. Additionally, I don't see how the claps reduce the quality of the hitsounding in this section. Soft-claps fit well with a calm section of the song, and their recurrence every 2nd/4th tick (except in specific rhythms like 00:24:196 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - on Magi) fit my rhythm choice.

I don't believe this disqualification was justified, and I hope my arguments were logical and reasonable. Thanks for your time!

Yea . Sorry to everyone who lost their pp playing this map xPP. I know my Magi diff was a pp goldmine. Sucks to have a 7th day dq... Lets hope this contest is successful because man, these reasons were honestly not well thought out... I'm not a great hit-sounder, but even I can't agree with the hit-sound dq, let alone the other ones .

Quality Assurance Team wrote:

...

1. Mapping Quality
   - The dark blue combo colour blends with the BG, which makes the hitobjects in that part unreadable.
   - AR9 in Insane does not fit in the spread and feels forced. . High AR breaks the spread and makes hitobjects hard and unpleasant to read.
   - The soft hitclaps you used in Insane and Magi from 00:11:497 to 00:30:545 - do not suit this song in an appropriate way as these hittsound have no support in the song. The same happens in Normal and Hard from 00:21:656 to 00:30:545 We'd like you to find another solution, by adjusting the hitsounds.

...
###M

1. I study colour theory and know for a fact that if any colour were hard to see on this bg it would not be the dark blue but actually the orange.
Its common for people to hate on dark blue when they play full dim but that doesn't apply to ranking. Please test on default skin if your skin can't handle dark colours well.
2. If anything AR9 fits perfectly. 8 is too slow and with all the hate about decimal ARs I'm surprised you want to lower it. Anyways the pacing of the song really fits AR9. I'm not even going to talk about density or stacking.
3. This means your DQ must really be pointing at just the hitsounds. I also disagree with this. The song is softer and the pace has changed. It fits just fine. Sure there could be better solutions like doing crazy extravagant hitsounding but are we really going to make mappers do that just to get their map ranked?

Great map!

I really don't understand why AR9 in a 189 BPM >4 star insane was a DQ reason, since AR9 is the norm for pretty much every insane over 150ish bpm nowadays. I've seen it used on far easier maps than this.

Your contest is well written. Although you probably won't succeed on all points, hopefully you will be able to invalidate some of the reasons for disqualification.

Skystar wrote:

Great map!

Oh god somebody actually stole the name

Omg i thought that was skystar

soo... lets see here.

hitsounds too similar to music --> DQ
hitsounds too different from music --> DQ

HAH

First off, I didnt check the map or read the thread beforehand, so Im just purely answering to the text below. Im also assuming that it's a "standard" kind of map.

xxdeathx wrote:

I really don't understand why AR9 in a 189 BPM >4 star insane was a DQ reason, since AR9 is the norm for pretty much every insane over 150ish bpm nowadays. I've seen it used on far easier maps than this.

I honestly dont think that things under 4.5ish* can be "surely/100%" AR9. It always depends on the density and overlaps and stuff, but really, the patterns cant be so difficult that you'd need AR9 on 4.11*. Even if it is 189 BPM, give it a try on 8.5 or 8.8 if neccessary. More people will be able to play it and it'll also be much more enjoyable on DT.
Though, I'd agree that that's a bit over the top to DQ over the AR.

As I said, I didnt check the map, but I wanted to answer to that. Give AR8.5-8.8 a try and be a bit more open to that.

Kibbleru wrote:

soo... lets see here.

hitsounds too similar to music --> DQ
hitsounds too different from music --> DQ

HAH

Go on like this I don't know how to add hitsound. Then I don't know how to mapping.
lol
细思恐极

KaedekaShizuru wrote:

Kibbleru wrote:

soo... lets see here.

hitsounds too similar to music --> DQ
hitsounds too different from music --> DQ

HAH

Go on like this I don't know how to add hitsound. Then I don't know how to mapping.
lol
细思恐极

细思恐极
这是逼我们用osu内置hitsound

This definitely belongs in the Hall of Infamy for one of the worst disqualifications ever.

Good luck, monstrata.

just sharing my opinion, but that combo color its really hard to notice, idk I think you really should change it >:

Yauxo wrote:

First off, I didnt check the map or read the thread beforehand, so Im just purely answering to the text below. Im also assuming that it's a "standard" kind of map.

xxdeathx wrote:

I really don't understand why AR9 in a 189 BPM >4 star insane was a DQ reason, since AR9 is the norm for pretty much every insane over 150ish bpm nowadays. I've seen it used on far easier maps than this.

I honestly dont think that things under 4.5ish* can be "surely/100%" AR9. It always depends on the density and overlaps and stuff, but really, the patterns cant be so difficult that you'd need AR9 on 4.11*. Even if it is 189 BPM, give it a try on 8.5 or 8.8 if neccessary. More people will be able to play it and it'll also be much more enjoyable on DT.
Though, I'd agree that that's a bit over the top to DQ over the AR.

As I said, I didnt check the map, but I wanted to answer to that. Give AR8.5-8.8 a try and be a bit more open to that.

you are correct, but the point being made here is that at a certain point the AR of the map should be up to mapper's interpretation and honestly shouldn't be a DQ reason at all lol

the map plays fine and not forced for what it is at AR9, if monstrata wants to keep it like that he shouldn't be forced to change it.

Kinshara wrote:

This definitely belongs in the Hall of Infamy for one of the worst disqualifications ever.

Good luck, monstrata.

^ this
We should make a golden book.

Good luck!

captin1 wrote:

combo color is extremely minor and mostly irrelevant
ar point is dumb, as monstrata said 9 is best considering the bpm and density
the claps are mildly additive, but they still fit well with the song and help give a better sense of timing during it

absolutely contest, i don't see a single thing that would warrant this.

^

Skystar wrote:

captin1 wrote:

combo color is extremely minor and mostly irrelevant
ar point is dumb, as monstrata said 9 is best considering the bpm and density
the claps are mildly additive, but they still fit well with the song and help give a better sense of timing during it

absolutely contest, i don't see a single thing that would warrant this.

^

I couldn't agree more on this one...
Combo color being a reason to disqualify a map oO.
Wasn't even an issue on this map compared to some others....

Solution for such imbroglio:

@monstrata:

* Please call Dexfrild or someone very very experienced on hitsounds to redesign/make up them.

* After this, call me back for checking everything.

Combo colors must not blend in with the map's background/storyboard/video. This is so the approach circles are always visible to the player.

Stop using shitty combo colors that you get from the background. Use something bright and/or edit the combo color a higher saturation/luminosity than the base color.

Pretty much any color darker than #80 when converted to grayscale is going to run into issues. Not to mention, kiai and other additive effects are significantly less vibrant at lower RGB values since additive blending adds the RGB value to the color underneath. If you use a black combo color for example, kiai will not work at all because you use 0 for the RGB values, adding 0 to everything. Not to mention, anyone using background dim without a skin force will hate you.

Just delete the color and move on with your life. Nobody is defending how this combo color adds to the song. Everyone is just complaining about the disqualification for something that doesn't seem like a big deal. Drop the AR9 to AR8.9. Change the claps to whistles. Done. I sincerely doubt that there would have been a disqualification if the blue were a better color.

TheGrimOfCrazy wrote:

1. I study colour theory and know for a fact that if any colour were hard to see on this bg it would not be the dark blue but actually the orange.
Its common for people to hate on dark blue when they play full dim but that doesn't apply to ranking. Please test on default skin if your skin can't handle dark colours well.

Clearly you don't know about how osu! colorization works. Even if the entire background were the exact orange color chosen, the simple fact that the orange is 255,149,43 means that the background when dimmed to the default of 30%, 178,104,30. That's a difference of 77,45,13, which is pretty substantial. The dark blue is just 23,46,83. The difference from a pure blue background would be 7,14,25.

I always test on default skin, and the default skin is very hard to see the dark blue, mainly for the reasons I outlined above. Mappers need to get over themselves and follow the rules. Please note that there is no rule about soft hitclaps or AR9, so those are purely opinionated reasons outlined by the QAT, which are debatable. The dark blue combo color clearly violates the rules.

But my bg isn't anywhere near a solid blue color lol. Tbh, now that i think about it, its better to consider the readability of the approach circle based on its entire play time, not just screen shots. It plays just fine for me. Calling it unreadable is completely inaccurate but semantics aside, waiting for Loctav/ztrot.

ziin wrote:

The dark blue combo color clearly violates the rules.

No.
There was a topic about combo colors saying that rules should be added in ranking criteria for black and white combo being hard to read (I disagree with white lol) but anyway, it got denied. So even there your dark blue color is out of subject. I agree it can look a bit odd at first sight on 100% dim but it's totally readable and if I personally disagree with it I can just put my own skin combo.

Anyway, what we're saying is that it's a minor thing and doesn't warrant a (last minute) DQ. I mean, the topic cleary shows that nobody cares of it.

monstrata wrote:

But my bg isn't anywhere near a solid blue color lol. Tbh, now that i think about it, its better to consider the readability of the approach circle based on its entire play time, not just screen shots. It plays just fine for me. Calling it unreadable is completely inaccurate but semantics aside, waiting for Loctav/ztrot.

I call it blending in with the background, not unreadable. The only unreadable color is black on black.

That being said, the dark blue color is significantly less readable than the other colors in the top left corner of the playfield. The QATs and myself agree that this is too much.

Yales wrote:

I mean, the topic cleary shows that nobody cares of it.

There are times when black and white can be appropriate, thus it shouldn't be a rule.

Yales wrote:

Anyway, what we're saying is that it's a minor thing and doesn't warrant a (last minute) DQ.

Breaking any rule warrants a DQ.

ziin wrote:

Breaking any rule warrants a DQ.

Since the map stays readable there's nothing wrong. And you said yourself that combo colors doesn't need any rule.

Breaking any rule warrants a DQ. However combo color isn't a rule. So there's no broken rule here. -> Abusive disqualification.

Yales wrote:

ziin wrote:

Breaking any rule warrants a DQ.

Since the map stays readable there's nothing wrong. And you said yourself that combo colors doesn't need any rule.

Breaking any rule warrants a DQ. However combo color isn't a rule. So there's no broken rule here. -> Abusive disqualification.

White combo color on black background is fine. Black combo color on white background (while silly and I'd advise against it) is also fine. Black on red is fine. Combo color is a rule, you can't have it blending into the background.

combo color is fine/readable for me

Where does it say the specific color I chose is unrankable? Only pure black and white are objectively dq'able. I'm referring to qat when saying the color is apparently unreadable.

Ziin- blending is subjective, your color number jargon assumes a bg that is a solid color, which is not the case.

monstrata wrote:

Ziin- blending is subjective, your color number jargon assumes a bg that is a solid color, which is not the case.

Yes, the rule is subjective. My jargon assumes a solid color because that section of the map is a mostly solid color, which is the only trouble area.


Can you really say that this does not blend at all?

played absolutely fine to me. imo orange is worse lol

Can you really say that this does not blend at all?

Point is, circles and sliders don't move, therefore they can be considered based on screenshots alone, but the approach circle moves. Saying it's "unreadable" based on strategically cropped screen-shots is poor judgement.

I actually tested it 0% dim (which didn't happen in 2 years lol) with my own skin, which gives a way more darker blue than it is with default skin http://puu.sh/iFh8c/de7867af31.jpg and I had no problem at all fcing (and so read) it first try. There's really no problem with this color. lol

Talked with ztrot, and it looks like it's going to take a long time before the contest even gets looked at. This sucks, because the changes (very minimal) are easily applied. I'm considering just making the adequate changes pointed out in the disqualification post and moving on with things. pishi, captin, what do you two think?

Insane> Lower AR to 8.8
Combo Color > delete the dark blue color
Hitsounds > Replace the claps with soft-whistles (or nothing).

I love this map, the song is awesome too
awesome work in this beatmap.

So the QATs fight contests by waiting them out. nice

monstrata wrote:

pishi, captin, what do you two think?

do it

Problem with contesting a dq is that its only run by two people, and neither of which are the qat responsible for dq'ing the map. There is no longer a system in place to discuss points with the QATs and/or to see and better understand the QAT's perspective on subjective DQ's. Everyone makes mistakes, QATs included. Posting under the name "Quality Assurance Team" means you are speaking on the team's behalf. It doesn't mean the entire team has gone through the map and came to the same conclusion.

If you guys want to post as a "team" it would be nice if your posts were more thorough too, because the DQ's back when dq's were handled by individual members were often far more helpful and didn't (intention or not) offend the mapper as much. Anonymity allows one to be harsher with words without as many drawbacks. Calling that blue combo color "unreadable" by any standard was exaggerating lol.

Anyways, lets get this rolling again

00:17:370 (4) - a (in magi)

oops. removed clap.

boop

talked with pishi. we decided to remove the claps from the later section 00:21:656 - 00:30:545 - as well because the QAT bot's dq was aimed at there being too many hitsounds in a relatively quiet section. i'm fine with this.


sry about my internet lol i literally didnt get any replies on irc.

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sick edits b r o

Regrats!, i hope it won't DQed again

gratz again xD
Hope nothing happen this time

Suddenly I found this mapset requalified.Regratz monstrata :3

congratulations <3 o(≧v≦)o~~

We made it!!!

Thanks for all the support! specially pishi <3 mp3 editing op.

I'm late (= A ='''')
Congratz monstrata~!
Very nice mappu <3

Lolparty wrote:

So the QATs fight contests by waiting them out. nice

^

Anyway, there were only minor things.
Congratulations!!