Tess wrote:

It's us being massively unsynced to each other. It's getting on my nerves.

what

I don't care. The only thing I think fucked things up for me was saying I had suspects at all.

It's interesting, because I said I had my reasons to be suspicious, I warned the other towns to pay attention to the thread, and the moment I vote on SNB, farto immediately after votes on me, after retracting his vote on Zexion. Then, first post he makes after, SNB is like "I'm okay with wagons on me ", then does his amazing "2 kills at once" post (which is only a minor slip, which is why I explicitly stated that I didn't want to elaborate on my reads based on minor things, but still kept being egged on to do so) and votes on me as well. And guess who votes me after that... Zexion.

Yeah, I don't trust this.

I'm changing my reads. Frostings is null-town for me now, and Zexion up there with SNB and farto. Prove me wrong.

Amianki wrote:

Tess wrote:

It's us being massively unsynced to each other. It's getting on my nerves.

what

Everyone whom I think to be town (except Frostings maybe) doesn't seem to have a very clear idea on who to think scum. They keep changing their ideas. Is that not being massively unsynced?

I don't have willpower to read through 50 more walls tonight and I'm pushing it by being awake at all right now.

I'll see about spamming the thread with small posts during my lunchbreak tomorrow.

Tess wrote:

Amianki wrote:

what

Everyone whom I think to be town (except Frostings maybe) doesn't seem to have a very clear idea on who to think scum. They keep changing their ideas. Is that not being massively unsynced?

Yeah, but that came out of nowhere and I don't understand what you're responding to.

I mean I can "prove you wrong" right away with that you're instantly scumreading everyone scumreading you apparently. Best tactic 2k15.

And that was directed towards Tess to avoid any confusion, whoops.

Tess wrote:

slip

jesus

no

Also I don't understand what the problem is with someone getting an early read on me considering I'm probably one of the easiest people to read on the site.

@Amianki: it was directed at your post of town being unsynced to each other.

@SNB: I actually already suspected you before you scumread me, which is why I voted you in the first place. Are you gonna grasp at every straw to abstain yourself from being scumread? The only reason I would think you're town at this point would be because it's incredibly stupid to push so hard against someone, knowing they're town, without some kind of plan for after they get lynched. That's the only valid argument you have going for you right now, to me.

lol okay I'm done talking to you SNB

Tess wrote:

@SNB: I actually already suspected you before you scumread me, which is why I voted you in the first place. Are you gonna grasp at every straw to abstain yourself from being scumread? The only reason I would think you're town at this point would be because it's incredibly stupid to push so hard against someone, knowing they're town, without some kind of plan for after they get lynched. That's the only valid argument you have going for you right now, to me.

The funny thing is that there was literally zero "evidence" whatsoever of me being a scum before I got active several hours ago. I had just returned from the meatworld and I saw a random wagon on me, so how did anything in that particular wagon have anything to do with actually suspecting me of anything? All I had done earlier were quick posts to state my FoS on farto, if that's a good enough reason to get a wagon on me then I don't know what to tell you guys.

Tess, nothing about your response makes any sense to what I was saying.

I give up lol

hello yes I'm here and reading

Sniverre235 wrote:

Why i voted for Frostings:
From the lack of post that Frostings have

Sniverre235 wrote:

it is giving me some scumvibes on Frostings because of the lack of activity for the game. He may be trying to lose attention from the others.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??????????????????????????????
ARE WE EVEN IN THE SAME GAME ???

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

It's weak, but more than I expected from a new player (This sounds very hypocritical coming from someone else who's on their first game but yeah).

Unvote

WTF????????????

Frostings wrote:

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

It's weak, but more than I expected from a new player (This sounds very hypocritical coming from someone else who's on their first game but yeah).

Unvote

WTF????????????

If you're asking WTF to my unvote, it's not because I think Sniverre is town, but more, I think there is a scum somewhere out of SNB, Tess, and Fartownik, and at this moment in time tracking down which one of those it is would make more sense, to make sure we make the right decision here, to avoid a mislynch.

HOW ON EARTH IS THAT POST EVEN REMOTELY OK????
1. Hypocrisy fucking EVERYWHERE
2. You voted for me JUST AFTER RVS, and your reason for it is because I WAS LACKING POSTS????
a) I was actually posting the most between the end of RVS and the beginning of the actual game to generate discussion and move away from RVS
b) even if I wasn't posting at all, how is that reason ok to have your vote remain on me until this stage of the game?

WHAT IS EVEN GOING ON ANYMORE

I'm gonna second Frostings' "WTF" on Magic Bomb's post, though I sort of understood. Sniverre isnt very high on my suspects list.

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

more than I expected from a new player

this part is totally WTF

oh yeah, tess, big wall coming up for you

Frostings wrote:

oh yeah, tess, big wall coming up for you

tfw big wall is about to come up just as I'm about to sleep ;w;

Oh god...Frosting...
Gotta be more careful from this point onwards

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

tfw big wall is about to come up just as I'm about to sleep ;w;

Same.

I don't even know how to begin replying to your giant wall

The reason I didn't want to join in on the whole "let's make reads even though we ain't got nothin'"-train is because whoever is scum is doing a fucking good job here. I was waiting until either I had a slip I could work with from someone or until I got a proper votecount to support my arguments. I don't like thi game, not because it's "bad" but because whoever is scum is either being really retarded or really clever here. But the more impractical posts of the game seem to be just that - impractical.

Tess, you do realize that town benefits from information? Public knowledge is extremely good for town. You might think, "oh but scum has information as well" and that's not true. Scum already knows who town is. We towns have no idea. This is why we "make reads even though we ain't got nothin" because OF COURSE WE HAVE FUCKING NOTHING. we make reads, do analysis, and post everything publicly because of sheer numbers. There are 3 scum and 9 town right now. By posting what I'm thinking, sure I'm letting 3 scum know what my intentions are, but I'm also letting 8 town know as well.
8 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 and strength in those numbers wins town games.

But in order to do that, we need to get the rest of town to cooperate. Think why you wouldn't cooperate with us when you get a huge advantage for town.
If you want to try to keep your reads a secret from us and find scum on your own, sure you can do that, but now you're technically playing 1 vs 11. You see where I'm going? I write this because you're "new", and IF you're town, you need to lose your attitude and start playing the game with us. (This goes for Sniverre and Jess as well)

Unfortunately for you, Tess, I don't think you're town :^)

Tess wrote:

I don't like thi game, not because it's "bad" but because whoever is scum is either being really retarded or really clever here. But the more impractical posts of the game seem to be just that - impractical.

Apparently you haven't played enough mafia games. Usually scum is not blatantly obvious, because then why would we play mafia at all? Not sure why you would assume scum is being stupid though.

Tess wrote:

So, since there weren't any scumslips that other townies would understand, I just wanted to point out to people that the votecount is ambiguous as fuck, and it basically goes to show that town is confused and has no idea where to even begin looking for scum.

You know that part of the "confusion" we're having is because of you?

Tess wrote:

This can only mean one of two things;

1. Scum is being confusing as shit on purpose
2. Scum is being confusing as shit out of inexperience/impracticality

Yep, you already mentioned that.

Tess wrote:

Now, I noticed this very early on, in particular when Frostings made that ridiculously stupid RVS post at the start, which caused fartownik to jump on him not long after, despite it being an obviously silly post. A post that wasn't well thought-out, and that didn't hold much actual meaning towards the game; something that made me think was a town move to pull, but I still wanted to see how he behaved under pressure, and it was as expected.

I'm not sure who you're talking about here, me or fartow

Tess wrote:

So, at that point, I was basically left with a game of idiots

You're complaining about town being "confused", but all you're doing is provoking it, especially by calling the entirety of town trash.

Tess wrote:

I'm not gonna be retarded and try to scumpaint people without having good reason to do so like everyone else has been doing.

1. AGAIN you call the ENTIRETY of town retarded, you're effectively dismissing EVERYONE'S posts up to this point
2. Do you not realize what we're doing? We're using our day effectively to try to generate discussion, because that's pretty much all that town get. And here you are keeping silent, refusing to cooperate and wasting our time. Maybe think for once.

Tess wrote:

This is why I told you guys to read carefully rather than firework your way through scumreads without actually knowing why.

Wrong.

Tess wrote:

I basically wanted the game to grow more before making anything out of them rather than do what the rest was doing

So basically you're stalling and preventing discussion.

Tess wrote:

Static Noise Bird wrote:

so we can lynch two scum at once instead of just you?

Static Noise Bird wrote:

so we can lynch two scum at once

Static Noise Bird wrote:

two scum at once

Static Noise Bird wrote:

at once

What am I even reading, why is this significant?
Oh, reaction testing. uhhhhhhhhhhh

Tess wrote:

I null-read Amianki because he didn't do any things I've found suspicious, while not the same can be said of Sniverre, but I don't have enough on Sniverre for a full scum read on him like with you or farto

so what did he do that's suspicious?

Tess wrote:

Okay, question to everyone: What are you gonna do when I get lynched and turn out to be town?

Well, maybe shed a few tears about how we have no information from you to work with day 2 and forced to just use VCA instead, because you thought you were a top-tier player by being silent on your thoughts

Tess wrote:

Static Noise Bird wrote:

Oh wait, you said "and". I thought you said "if I".

Now I'll call you a liar instead.

Getting awfully aggressive, aren't we?~

It's almost like you really don't want to be considered scum.

Easy bait.

>_> Tess, you're just making things way worse for yourself

This is getting retarded.

Frostings wrote:

Tess wrote:

This is why I told you guys to read carefully rather than firework your way through scumreads without actually knowing why.

Wrong.

Sorry, I misread this sentence. Yes, we should be reading carefully. No we should not be fireworking our way through scumreads without knowing why, but who is doing that? Apparently YOU because you have three "scumreads" based off of "hunches" that even you can't explain

ok gotta recharge after that post holy

I'm fine with being lynched, this game is getting stupid. If it's not SNB and farto at the very least being scum then idk anymore. Out of curiosity though, Frostings, who else do you think is scum? Don't you have any other suspicions?

Tess wrote:

So, since there weren't any scumslips that other townies would understand, I just wanted to point out to people that the votecount is ambiguous as fuck, and it basically goes to show that town is confused and has no idea where to even begin looking for scum.

3xDouble vote on someone, 3xSingle. This means that, from the perspective of the game as a whole, there are no obvious suspects for town

I hate this part, because you put a plenty of effort into drawing a meaningless conclusion. Same thing here:

Tess wrote:

I'm not gonna be retarded and try to scumpaint people without having good reason to do so like everyone else has been doing.

It's early D1, you don't just spot scum and lynch them right away lol, what are you even expecting? We have to generate material to work with.

Tess wrote:

The best thing I could do at that point was single out farto, SNB and Drezi as suspects, while still remaining wary of Frostings, who could just as easily be making those moves from a scum position.

This matches what I thought you had in mind (well at least me and farto being 2 of the 3), but I'll say that I dislike the way you presented it. It's setting up for a wagon on people, by trying to make others pinpoint scum based on your clues, and they'll feel the scumreads are kinda their own too, since you didn't just tell them who to vote. Also regardless of who people would actually start to suspect you can just go "yeah that's what I was thinking too". So this looked like scum antics to me.

Tess wrote:

And SNB's line about "double lynching" looks like a massive scumslip to me.

Ok, so how was this supposed to be a reaction test? What did you mean by double lynching being a scumslip? Even if it's supposed to be a reaction test it had to make sense to you in one way or the other, so explain it in detail what you were thinking when you typed that line.

Tess wrote:

I don't like how anyone has been approaching this game, including myself. I feel scum is the only one making decent moves here.

Bleh, again giving scum credit, and indirectly excluding yourself from scum, I don't really see any other point to this post. How would you expect people to approach this game instead?


---

fartownik wrote:

Even though it kinda makes some sense, you contradict yourself. You say you don't want to "scumpaint" people without proper reasons to vote them, yet I'm your top scumspect without proper reasoning.

I don't see the conradiction here, this feels very weak. I don't like the way she went about things, but it wasn't inconsistent.

fartownik wrote:

you began seeming like you're actually playing your first game around here. Which you were not. This is your second game and in the first one you have shown that you're a skilled individual, here you were basically lost from the start. This gave me an idea that it is actually your first game - first game as Mafia.

This is reasonable, however Tess replaced into her first game after a scum had already been killed, there were already enough leads to go in etc, it's her first time doing D1 starting from stratch, so I'm not too sure about this.
What I don't understand is why she has not made this point herself.

Static Noise Bird wrote:

>states the intent to not scumpaint people
>scumpaints people
Top kek.

Ugh, why this again, I didn't even think that was a legit point from the get go.

---

Ok, I won't be quoting more stuff, overall I don't think the Tess wagon is bad, but I heavily dislike the lack of a counterwagon and the fact that some points against her feel forced just to make the case look worse than it is.

Sooo

Tess wrote:

I'm fine with being lynched, this game is getting stupid.

If you're town don't give up, if anything is stupid in this game it's NOT what's happening now.

Irreversible wrote:

Why do you even play mafia if you're AFK the whole time anyway.

I'm still doing more than you in this game despite me being absent for the whole last day. You mad? 8)

I loved how Irreversible said he wants the lurkers to post because "he wants content" even though he does not deliver it himself.

My vote was a reaction test. The reason why I tried to bring it up was p/4341251, especially the Frostings part. Just how does that not make any sense to you? Can you start playing the game? Can you use your brain? Hello?

This is why this makes sense.

Unvote

@Tess: If you actually had scumreads, you would at the very least softpush these people, while all I saw was subtly telling the town to man up and start paying attention without really saying what's happening. Where is that? I also remember you waiting for the town to fuck up so you can tell people what's happening, and you indeed gave your insight about the situation, which seems really genuine to me. What were your scumreads when I asked you about them? Was that {Zexion, fartownik, SNB} or something else? Please tell me now. Give me a reason to back up my gut you're town, even though by various approaches on PoE you end up in my scumlist almost every time.


Concerning SNB:

Static Noise Bird wrote:

Tess wrote:

farto, your reasoning is surprisingly off from what I'm used to, from you.

META IS NOT A PROPER ARGUMENT.

Now this is funny how you mentioned that to Tess rather than fartownik, who's been doing similar things in this game.

p/4344136/
Now this post is a HUGE BUNCH of bullshit. How can people not see that this is a blatant try to scumpaint Tess? Like 80% SNB's case on Tess is just spitting things like "lol you are the one who's confusing lol you are a mute parrot lol you scum lol vote tess". Like come on, how is that even possible that one could say Tess is sheeping someone when she's giving the most content to us so far.


Town:

1. Magic Bomb - explained before, his random vote im Sniverre doesn't bug me that much.
2. Irreversible - I hate to admit it, but he's most likely a town idiot. I'm going to check that soon, though.

Null:

1. Tess - either obvtown or obvscum. It very much depends on SNB's alignment, as they are the polar opposites. I mean, her posts sort of lack consistency, but the way everyone is picking on her seems... too easy. I'm much more into thinking that her reads are damn close and that scum is trying to make her eat ground as early as possible.
2. fartownik - Not sure if over-aggressive town or scum trying to look as town as possible.
3. Amianki - I don't see how fartownik might be townreading him, like honestly. This is a dead null read to me.
4. Everyone else who hasn't been mentioned in this list. Either lurkers or I have no idea what to think about them (especially Frostings).

Scum:

1. Static Noise Bird - Was once a null-town read, after p/4343499 and later posts I'm more into thinking this might be our scum here. Forced case on Tess. Explained above.
2. Zexion - similar case as SNB, but definitely not a candidate for today's lynch.

Vote: Static Noise Bird

Eh, massive was the wrong use of words there. I don't want to give up but I know that my initial approach to this wasn't really the best way to go about it. I didn't mention the other game being half-way through because I was too bent on trying to explain my hunches which were nothing more than hunches, but they still led me to being pretty certain farto and SNB are scum. I kept downtalking town because I didn't see anything suspicious in the confused-seeming posts.

As to how I would prefer people to approach the game... I had an idea about this but now I feel I should rethink my approach to things, since obviously I didn't start out as well as I'd planned. I wanted to wait until there was more material to work with but that made me suspicious and blah blah. I get it.

I'm keeping my vote on SNB and I'll see where this goes.

Also, Frostings, I wouldn't want to do a singular scumread, because, the second I think of someone being possible scum, I want to know who might be working with them. So, just a single scumread, and jumping on a single person, sounds like a stupid idea to me. I'm assuming scum is working as a team, though trying to not appear so, so I'm looking for correlations between whoever's my first suspect and whoever might be cooperating with them. I get it that when only one person does something that stands out then obviously you should focus on them but I also think that that focus shouldn't obscure other minor things that could give any leads to other possible scum.

Tess wrote:

Also, Frostings, I wouldn't want to do a singular scumread, because, the second I think of someone being possible scum, I want to know who might be working with them. So, just a single scumread, and jumping on a single person, sounds like a stupid idea to me.

In the endgame sure. In the early game you can't expect to just pinpoint the whole scumteam, and even if you have a good idea you can simply push a single one of them and see how the others react it might confirm or weaken your other suspicions etc etc.

rEdo wrote:

@Tess: If you actually had scumreads, you would at the very least softpush these people, while all I saw was subtly telling the town to man up and start paying attention without really saying what's happening.

That was a mistake of mine, actually. I didn't want to softpush my suspects because I wanted to observe how they were dealing with other people whom I considered to be town/null. That's what I meant when I said I wanted "more to base my hunches on", because I didn't feel a particular need to ask much of other towns, and didn't want to egg possible scum on to the point where it might get in the way of what I was trying to achieve. My mistake was not participating at all and also explicitly stating what I was doing in the meantime. That's probably what started the wagon on me.

rEdo wrote:

I also remember you waiting for the town to fuck up so you can tell people what's happening, and you indeed gave your insight about the situation, which seems really genuine to me. What were your scumreads when I asked you about them? Was that {Zexion, fartownik, SNB} or something else? Please tell me now. Give me a reason to back up my gut you're town, even though by various approaches on PoE you end up in my scumlist almost every time.

Actually, I was waiting for scum to fuck up, but I guess "you guys" (or whatever variant of this I used) was pretty vague. At the time you asked me about them it was still Drezi (null-scum), farto and SNB. I wasn't sure about Drezi but I figured I'd go for the people who seemed the least confused first, and observe what they did. Drezi is pretty much town in my eyes now, in particular because his posts seem kinda counterproductive if he were scum.

Assuming that farto and SNB are scum, he could just as well join the wagon now since Frostings and Zexion already did, and it wouldn't really stand out anymore since there'd be 5 votes on me. Yet he didn't, he seemed to question everyone reasonably, the stuff he said about me was reasonable too. I actually thought Zexion was nulltown/null until I saw his sudden jump on me, which was closely followed by farto and SNB. It really just looks to me like those three have the same goal, and SNB seems to be the most blatant at it. That's most of what I've gotten for now. I honestly don't see any reason to suspect anyone else, it feels to me like the jump was purely because I put them on edge by first saying I had something in mind and then voting SNB for no reason. Like, immediately after, farto voted me, and then SNB and Zexion followed suit. Independently this woudn't mean anything, but combined with their behavior, it just stood out to me. Out of the three, Zexion is the least suspicious imo, but still more suspicious than the rest of town. It's hard to say since a lot happened in between his post voting me and the post before that, I'd have to re-read the thread to make sure.

That's all my honest thoughts on this matter.

Thank you.

SNB is the best lynch for today, just saying.

I went out to eat and... nice.

Too bad it seems too generally accepted to lynch me at this point to really give much information. Just take note that it might very well be Tess and both her scumbuddies on the wagon. Am I really being that intimidating? All I tried to do was to point out flaws in Tess' accusations.

Going to sleep for real this time. If I wake up with a rope down my throat that would be top kekkers.

How is a Tess lynch better than a SNB lynch, then?

Static Noise Bird wrote:

Too bad it seems too generally accepted to lynch me at this point to really give much information.

Actually, lynching you hasn't been discussed much other than by me and rEdo so far, iirc.

Static Noise Bird wrote:

Just take note that it might very well be Tess and both her scumbuddies on the wagon.

That's the exact same argument I used against your wagon on me, though.

I really want to shit a wall of text in here now but I'm on my phone anf its kinda hard to type a lot. I will just be quick and write more stuff when I get on PC.

So yeah, OMGUS. That's the only thing that comes to my mind in Tess's logic, for ALL of her scumspects. Do you honestly believe every single person that's pushed you is scum? That really isn't logical at all, adding to that most of your arguments had logical flaws that me, SNB and Frostings have pointed out. rEdo looks like a fucking white knight in shining armor appearing out of nowhere on his big-ass horse to save Tess from oppression. I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be a planned action from scumbuddies because I'm sure rEdo has balls to pull off something like this. Creating a counterwagon in SNB ( whom for me looks a shitton more Town than Tess does) to give Tess one more day alive.

fartownik wrote:

I really want to shit a wall of text in here now but I'm on my phone anf its kinda hard to type a lot. I will just be quick and write more stuff when I get on PC.

So yeah, OMGUS. That's the only thing that comes to my mind in Tess's logic, for ALL of her scumspects. Do you honestly believe every single person that's pushed you is scum? That really isn't logical at all, adding to that most of your arguments had logical flaws that me, SNB and Frostings have pointed out. rEdo looks like a fucking white knight in shining armor appearing out of nowhere on his big-ass horse to save Tess from oppression. I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be a planned action from scumbuddies because I'm sure rEdo has balls to pull off something like this. Creating a counterwagon in SNB ( whom for me looks a shitton more Town than Tess does) to give Tess one more day alive.

Nope. Her reads were pretty close to mine, with exception on Drezi. What would you do if Tess flips town?

Back in ~5 hours.