fartownik wrote:

It's really sad that the BNs can only talk overalls and can't really pinpoint what's actually wrong with the patterns in the map. I wish you could have some respect to me and at least explain me that.

1. Try to find a better version of the mp3, so it's not compressed to 128 kbps
2. Why is there a 2 second silent .wav in the folder?
3. soft-hitwhistle4.wav is a lot longer than needed, consider cutting the last silent part off

Exa wrote:

I talked it over with several beatmap nominators and most of them were extremely negative regarding it's chances of getting ranked because "it doesn't have a general structure".
What is more sad though is that in the next 24 hours after it's removal from the mapset, I got poked by over 15 people in-game, asking why I removed it.

I am going to do my best and try to get this beatmap ranked because many people believe it deserves to be.

Beatmap nominators were mostly discouraged because of it's "gimmicky mapping style". I can provide several examples of other maps that stand with the same style and are still awesome, one that comes straight to mind is Meg & Dia - Monster (DotEXE Remix) [Xtra].

I hope people will be able to acknowledge the quality of the beatmap and allow it to be ranked.

A Mystery wrote:

Hello! M4M

General

1. Try to find a better version of the mp3, so it's not compressed to 128 kbps The only mp3 version that currently exists is of 128 kbps
2. Why is there a 2 second silent .wav in the folder? Silencing sliders?
3. soft-hitwhistle4.wav is a lot longer than needed, consider cutting the last silent part off

All hitsounds have been checked several times, they are alright.

Insane

00:02:064 (2,4) - Ctrl+g to emphasize the bass-kick I am giving the emphasis on the audio sample that can be heard in all of these 4 notes
00:04:029 (2) - If anything, place this closer to 00:03:672 (1) - because of the snare (and not close to 00:04:386 (3) - like it is now Rearranged the pattern.
00:10:100 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - I don't see a reason to use a pattern like this. It might look cool, but the increasing spacing doesn't represent anything in the song. Try to find a pattern which emphasizes the bass-kicks It actually works if you see the notes as independent triangles, 00:10:636 (8) - first kick is here which has a tad bit more emphasis compared to the notes before and 00:11:172 (11) - second beat is here which works both because of the highly increased spacing and cut-flow but also because of the extra vocalic audio sample AND the incoming jump. Also the tension on the jingle beats is progressively increasing; and that is mostly where this pattern stands.
00:17:243 (1,2) - Ctrl+g to emphasize the snare Rearranged pattern.
00:17:600 (3,1) - Why let this overlap so slightly when 00:15:814 (3,1) - this isn't? It is a way stronger beat so a larger distance would make more sense. Both the increased SV and curve of the slider work towards the emphasis of that beat, I am keeping this as it is.
00:19:386 (4) - You shouldn't force a blanket like this. The small spacing doesn't really fit Changed
00:33:672 (3) - This sound is very short, so I don't think an extended slider works out here. Consider using 1 1/1 slider or 2 circles, although 00:34:029 (1) - is a better place for a pattern you used here There is a water flow audio sample on the duration of that slider. It's not blank.
00:36:172 (4) - I don't using a 1/4 slider is the best thing to do. it will sound more like a quintuplet (which isn't in the song) I see nothing wrong with how it plays nor with how it looks and feels.
00:36:707 (8) - just use a 1/2 slider. You are ignoring a sound in the song, and instead the slider ends on nothing Not changing for now, I am aware of that sound but it's barely noticeable and I am not planning on sacreficing pliability in order to map this. It also works in relation to the audio sample represented with 00:37:064 (1) - so it shouldn't be that big of a deal. (Will change if pointed out by anyone else).
00:37:957 (1) - Move this down so it will have a larger distance and it will give a better movement towards the next slider. 00:38:314 (2) - Moved 00:38:314 (2) - a bit up because of pattern consistency.
00:38:850 (1,2) - Slider spam is not the best thing to use here either. It will sound bad for sounds that are this short I see nothing wrong with this pattern nor the way it sounds.
00:42:422 (1) - Same as 00:36:707 (8) - Yup
00:42:957 (3,4) - Ctrl+G to emphasize the snare Done
00:45:457 (2) - and again, like 00:36:707 (8) - Yup yup
00:51:172 (1,2,3,4) - This sliderspam is unnecessary as well It's the best way to both keep tension high and also make the 1/6 rev. slider make sense.
00:52:957 (1,2,3,4) - Why the random 1/3? Old mistake, I have been meaning to change that but forgot about it.
00:55:457 (1,2,3) - The song has a softer part here, but the spacing is a lot bigger.
It would take too much time to point out every spacing issue. A clap could have a slightly higher spacing, a bass-kick as well. Downbeats as well,... but don't map jumps at random places. Also, when you hear 1/2 sounds, don't make a random extended slider. It will not fit. I feel like this part is perfect in terms of distance snapping. I am using relatively high DS to create introductory tension for the next sudden beat (00:56:172 (5,1) - ). What allows me to do that are the multiple audio samples in the background, the vocals and the actually represented with correct DS kicks and snares. The jumps are also not random in the mapping area since they work best for the desired flow.
01:03:672 (2) - Why? Don't ignore the strong beats Mapping the dolphin not only emphasizes it (which is what I wend for) but also gives the player a break time from the jumps. Changed to notes though.
01:26:469 (1) - Wut? Wow, nice catch. Probably didn't see while resnapping after the offset change,
01:31:172 (2) - 1/2 The vocals are actually way longer than that, I am using the wobbly slider to represent them as good as possible and also make a nice jump into the next one with it's current slider length.
01:36:886 (1,2,3,4) - No slider-spam Talked about this before.
01:39:207 (8) - Remove the whistle from the slider-body Done
01:40:993 - Why ignore this sound? I - AM - MAPPING - THE VOCALS!!!111!!. Also it plays weird with a note there since that's not how I mapped another pattern of the same nature.
01:42:600 (2) - 1/2 Didn't change
02:19:683 (6,1,2) - eh, Snaped, my eyes deceive me o.o
02:21:469 (2) - Hai o/
02:37:600 (1) - 1/2 I am aware that I am aware that I am skipping this beat, but I feel like it plays better the way it is now.
Will change as soon as someone else points it out!
This diff has too many issues before it is close to rankable. Please take the spacing thing in mind. I can only be general about it because pointing everything out is pointless in the end. Just take some time, get more mods, and remap some parts.
Considering I would normally ignore a mapset like this (not close enough to rankable) I will only mod one diff, since you didn't follow the rules.
The song contains 157 different songs, it is an extremely dexterous job to bring out all of them while also keeping a stand to the fundamentals of emphasis and tension. But while taking a neutral stand here, I don't think the mapset is as bad as bad as you present it to be.
I would also be glad to be directed to the rules I did not follow.
Nozhomi's diff looks better, but kinda has the same spacing issues at several places. Noz <3

Good luck with the mapset! Thanks o/

Exa wrote:

A Mystery wrote:

Hello! M4M

General

1. Why is there a 2 second silent .wav in the folder? Silencing sliders? Well then it shouldn't be 2 seconds, but this

The song contains 157 different song, it is an extremely deleterious job to bring out all of them while also keeping a stand to the fundamentals of emphasis and tension. But while taking a neutral stand here, I don't think the mapset is as bad as bad as you present it to be.

Well you can think whatever you want. All I want to say is, that you will probably look back one day and see that there is a lot that can be improved, even if you don't see that right now. I see you didn't agree with a lot of suggestions, some of which I think were fundamental for a better overall quality (like the overmapped slider spam, or ignored sounds), including spacing issues where at one moment the distance is really big and at the other moment it isn't. It's completely fine w/e you do, but please take whatever I said seriously, and reconsider some things.

Exa wrote:

I would also be glad to be directed to the rules I did not follow.

A Mystery wrote:

M4M (OPEN)

Allow us to take a look at your map first, so we can decide whether we accept or not.
If you ignore this very simple rule we won't mod back!

A Mystery wrote:

Nozhomi's diff looks better, but kinda has the same spacing issues at several places.

Exa wrote:

A Mystery: Post it on my queue.
Exa: Done

#NoDrama

Nozhomi wrote:

A Mystery wrote:

Nozhomi's diff looks better, but kinda has the same spacing issues at several places.

Are you talking about spacing used to get emphasis with the song ? Or something else ? Anyway I tried to stay consistant for this and use them to fit with music, and not so much people complain about that.
I'll just wait again I guess ^^

handsome wrote:

00:02:154 (4) - overmapped, at a brief silence in the music too. - Fixed tho it played just fine.
00:03:136 (1,2,3) - cool concept but no emphasis whatsoever on the loudest sound on 2. minor though. Yes, minor indeed.
00:05:189 (4) - overmapped. Fixed tho it played just fine.
00:05:993 (2,3) - random jump to the top right, its a little odd and forced. as 2 has a similar sound to 1, you could put it in the same line of motion. Fixed I think.
00:06:172 - i would prefer if you did the 1/8 sliders for the little sounds, like you did before.
00:08:939 (5) - overmapped. Fixed [?].
00:09:029 (6) - having this as a slider would be interesting for the sound here. Fixed.
00:11:261 (2) - overmapped. Fixed tho it played just fine.
00:12:823 (4,5) - probably uinintentional, seems like you meant to snap on 1/6. its 1/8 though. The snapping errors come from unintentional snapping from Exa. Also I snap it on 1/6 intentionally as I'm not planning to put a 1/8 stream in a 168BPM map. It plays just fine even though it's out of the rhythm.
00:13:672 (1) - excessive spacing here, the V pattern going on. Don't see a problem.
00:20:457 (5) - autostack leads to this. i'm sure this wasn't intentional http://i.imgur.com/u6Oz3sI.png No idea how to fix this without breaking the pattern apart.
00:21:707 (1) - doesn't have the car beep sound, a circle would make more sense. Did you notice it while playing the map or editing in 50% speed? No one's gonna notice it while playing and having a regular circle here is kinda inconsistent and surprising for the players.
00:22:957 (1) - the spacing change isn't large enough to feel the emphasis you're trying to create. having the first stream at somewhere 0.6 ish is better. Fixed.
00:24:743 (2) - personal preference but this really feels boring and unintuitive. you're having pretty high SV on a slow portion and having the player give their focus on the map for the whole time (holding down/following sliders) when it should be somewhat relaxing portion. Actually it plays pretty fun in my opinion. Not fixing anything in this part.
00:25:814 (1) - increasing SV but building the slider in such a way that the perceived SV is lower.. its an odd stylistic decision. it might be fine given the correct context but in a section full of long sliders, another slider doesn't really give much emphasis. You're wrong because it actually does have emphasis during gameplay.
00:30:338 (2,3,1) - wrong snaps, should be a triple 1/8 starting on the blue tick. Same as the 1/8 part before. Plays really fine as it is.
00:38:314 - i understand mapping to percussions but everyone's gonna be following the synths or vocals etc. having a 3/2 spacing on stack might be confusing, considering you did 1/1 earlier. doing 1/1 makes much more sense and is more fluid. I don't see anything confusing here.
00:37:243 (1) - a somewhat minor SV increase on a 1/2 slider, nobody's gonna 'feel' it. in fact it would just seem odd to play. Well, perhaps, but I think I will leave it as it is.
00:39:743 (2,3,4,1) - well usually this is done with 1/4 into 1/2 spacing, 1/3 into 1/2 is a little trickier. it might have been better if the instrument transition was more crisp and loud, but here its pretty soft hihats, and mixed in with a 1/6 at 00:40:041 - . i suggest switching up the patterns here. Added a 1/8 slider at the end of the pattern as in 01:25:814 (1). It should play just fine.
00:45:368 (2,1) - why not stack it under 00:44:922 (1) - so that the fast movement during the sliders are emphasised more when the cursor comes to a standstill when the there isn't a sound. I kinda like how it currently plays and looks.
00:45:814 (1) - not the same exact sounds as before i prefer having regular SV. Sound doesn't matter here, symmetry and gameplay does. It plays quite well having this a symmetric pattern with a high SV.
00:48:314 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - first combo is the same as the second, just rotated, but the second one has a obvious sound that its following. in this sense the first combo doesn't really make sense since it doesn't have the same sound but has the same pattern.I see your point, but it also has a sound, just a different one, and the following pattern is different as well (4 circles, not 2). And I kinda like how it plays with that pattern.
00:51:529 (1,2) - why is this even 1/6. the 1/4s aren't really clear but they're there. there's certainly no 1/6.Bad mistake from me, remapped this part without listening close to the music. My bad. Fixed.
00:54:386 (1,2,3,4,1) - yes there's sound on 1/4 but it isn't really fluid, they don't 'mix together' and having a stream to go with that is odd. 1/4 sliders make more sense.Ikr, but it plays surprisingly well. It stays.
01:03:136 (1) - sv changes too extreme.Nah, they're perfect. Just not common at all.
01:17:064 (1) - its more like this http://i.imgur.com/hH6PzME.png also the whole pattern in general makes it difficult to discern snapping as well. 1/8 deal from before. Also it's not difficult at all - 1/6 is a spaced stream, 1/4 is a stack. Nothing more simple to read.
01:26:529 (1) - inconsistent with 00:35:100 (1) - Ikr, that's called pattern diversity. If I were to follow the same beat/pattern every single time the beat repeats in the song it would've been boring as heck.

the rest is similar, inconsistencies, snapping, overmap, spacing issues. some of the mod might sound a little offensive or very subjective but i'm just giving you reasons for why most BNs avoided this map.

Frim4503 wrote:

what are you mean about a standard map vs a mania map ?
this is a hybrid map by combined 2 difference mode (std and mania).
and mania diff already have piano icon. so, let's work hard for std diff too

P.S. remove fartownik from tags cuz his dif is taken out

1. 00:12:600 (1,2) - considering swap NC here, because you change SV on 2, not on 1
2. I'm not sure if you add NC on 00:19:922 (1,1) - to follow the instrument or something but it's not that necessary imo. just add on 00:19:386 (4)
3. 00:33:493 (1) - why NC here? remove?
4. 00:51:886 (5) - NC? 1/3 and it's as long as previous 4 slider so it's hard to read.
5. 00:53:314 (7) - why place here, please don't. ok I saw you didn't do it once so I gonna explain, if you want to place 5 that far, at least you should change (3) as 1/4 slider. the player that play insane is not that pro to hit 5 like that... even for pro is still hard. so please considering place it normally or change (3) to 1/4 slider. if it in extra diff will be a different case.
6. 00:55:100 (7) - hmm you can place here but if you move it further will be more pleasant to play. really. like stack with 00:54:207 (2).
7. 00:59:564 (7,8) - the reason why I told you to move note further because you know, when you play a big spacing and suddenly drop to this close is not flow. it's playable but, in this pattern, if you keep it consistent, it will be more pleasant to play. still depends on your decision because the pattern you made doesn't wrong as well, I didn't miss there. here is my pattern suggestion (can be other pattern of course), and I recommend you to change 8 to 1/2 slider because there has a beat on 00:59:922 which is quiet strong and weird to skip it, or add circle and stack to 8. up to you.
8. 01:00:100 (1,2,1) - still these NC, I think you are following something but, there won't have following point to next note and drain disturbing which is really harder, so considering decrease the frequently of NC.
9. 00:51:172 - just in case if you think spam 1/4 is weird there. it's not overmapped of course but somehow the hitsound is kinda too loud or something.
10. 01:04:207 (1) - kinda impossible to read that it's 1/4 at first try I believe, so I suggest to end it on previous white tick instead.
11. 01:05:814 (1,1) - why many NC.
12. 01:08:672 - try this? more fit imo.
13. 01:15:100 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2) - starting here, NC are kinda messed up.
14. 01:22:779 (2) - kinda hard to tell in one try that it's 1/4. how about this, just an example.
15. 01:28:493 (1) - remove NC and move a tiny further would be good, almost touch the tail.
16. 01:30:993 - rhythm suggestion.
17. 01:39:029 (5) - same.
18. 01:57:243 - I'm not sure what did you follow but if you follow vocal, should be like this.
19. 02:08:850 (3,4,5,1) - this hidden is really insane, I think it's rankable but hm, imagine when people play this, they probably think this is 4 notes or 5 notes stream. considering change the pattern of something.
20. 02:11:707 (3,4,5) - I know inconsistent spacing is allowed but this pattern is different, looks at you did on 02:12:600 (2,3,4,5). this is actually fine. but in this case, this pattern is just go in one way and the beat is consistent so considering make their spacing a bit more consistent for tidy and more pleasant to play. to example this pattern, it's similar to this
21. to be honest, after 02:29:386 (1), would be better if you use consistent spacing. because on 02:33:314 (8,9,1,2) you also increase their spacing while the beat go weaker. so better keep all of them consistent or replace all of them to follow to how strong the beat are.
22. 02:37:600 (1) - hm. 1/2 slider please.

Litharrale wrote:

Starting to feel like this map is suffering from "toumei elegy syndrome"

i.e Feels like the map is losing it's original appeal that drew so many to it, especially with the insane. The endless mods and changes have corrupted the mappers style so much it just feels generic and boring now.

or maybe I'm just old and don't like change....

Get of my lawn you damn dirty kids

fartownik wrote:

Litharrale wrote:

Starting to feel like this map is suffering from "toumei elegy syndrome"

i.e Feels like the map is losing it's original appeal that drew so many to it, especially with the insane. The endless mods and changes have corrupted the mappers style so much it just feels generic and boring now.

or maybe I'm just old and don't like change....

Get of my lawn you damn dirty kids

I'm afraid my diff might be ripped apart by the QAT as well, but the core of it will never change, even if it had to mean not ranking this map. Most of the stuff that QAT unranks maps for is fucking ridiculous and it really seems like most of them know shit to nothing about mapping itself and most importantly about playing the maps they try making 'better' (looking at Asymmetry's unrank reasons is a fucking comedy sketch). It's like they're getting paid for the amount of maps per month they unrank or some shit so they come up with petty reasons out of nowhere to justify it.

Exa wrote:

I am eager to get this map ranked.

Litharrale wrote:

Exa wrote:

I am eager to get this map ranked.

A while ago

All you could find to point out

TL;DR

XeroiZi HD wrote:

Well, for me about the map quality.
Your map is 6/10 for a decent-good looking map. Most because of your quite random spacing and most of your slider drawing and placing.

I suggest you to re-map.
It's a best way than just doing another speed mapping. Speed mapping is phatetic :S

Exa wrote:

XeroiZi HD wrote:

Well, for me about the map quality.
Your map is 6/10 for a decent-good looking map. Most because of your quite random spacing and most of your slider drawing and placing.

I suggest you to re-map.
It's a best way than just doing another speed mapping. Speed mapping is phatetic :S

Beeeee specific. I am sick of this.

Gaia wrote:

a quick check and some first thoughts

hardest diff:
the name itself is doesnt make sense and is pretty stupid tbh, but whatever
00:54:386 (1,2,3,4,1,2,1) - this is not smart mapping, like maybe if the antijump was seperated by a big gap but it's a constant 1/2, people will overstream here - No one has ever overstreamed this part as I was spectating them playing this map. Ever.
00:58:136 (2) - you're joking. lmao. a slow down is cool and all but it does NOT call for 0.02x SV (also this is unranakble because of green line SV abuse) - lmao, you have no idea how cool it actually plays. If I could I'd have used 0.00x sliders here, but I can't and since you have your 'golden rules' I can't even use 0.02x which is the closest to perfection. Is there really NO WAY to let this stay until the map is in Qualified and see how people actually treat this part? The map can be unqualified any time if it's a problem for anyone (which was not for the testplayers, it was even the opposite, most of them said it played great).
01:13:672 (1,2) - dunno why this is sped up compared to the other ones, i mean this has the same intensity as 01:09:386 (1,2) - and they should be consistent - because why not, it plays more interestingly this way.
01:32:957 (5,6,1) - this kind of overlap is super tricky to read.. - so? the map's main difficulty is its trickiness, also it's not really hard at all if you're skilled.
01:33:850 (5) - don't stack this , same reason as that stream above - Argghhh, I WILL stack this. I like how it plays.
01:54:743 (1) - probably unrankable, no clear sliderpath - There's no y axis movement required from the player to clear this slider, only x movement (left and right). A simple move to the right clears it every play.

also i'd like to mention that 1/6 streams (00:31:410 (2,3,1) - 00:39:743 (2,3,4) - for example) and then 1/4 streams (00:33:314 (1,2,3,4) - ) is pretty tricky to play imo. - Yes, yes it is.

some problems here and there, i personally think this diff can be cleaned up more before pushing for rank
well anyways good luck and have fun !

Exa wrote:

Comments like that make me confused on what people really want here :S

A while ago

All you could find to point out

And then you are trying to imply that the map is not of good quality? :S
It's clear that you are ignorant regarding the quality standards of today's beatmapping. If you are willing to cause strife, then pleeeease don't.
If - however - you seriously have any concerns about the map's quality, you are more than welcome to make a mod (and actually find stuff to prove your statement) or talk to me in-game and explain why you think the map is not of good quality.

As for the stubborn part: I am not being stubborn I am just not getting actually useful mods for any difficulty other than fartownik's and any testplayer that I have forced into playing this has stated that there are no flow issues and imo the map looks aesthetically fine. As for the rhythm, I see nothing wrong with it and nor does any modder who dealt with this beatmap set so far. (P A N made some good suggestions though).

And on an end note, I am - in no way possible - going to sacrifice the quality of any of my beatmaps and be stubborn with it in order to get it ranked.
Fartwonik did some major changes that he did not intend to do initially, just for the sake of rankabilty. So, saying that anyone who worked on this set is stubborn, is extremely rude and offensive.

TL;DR

Artist's pixiv: http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=2696273

Litharrale wrote:

Exa wrote:

Comments like that make me confused on what people really want here :S

A while ago

All you could find to point out

And then you are trying to imply that the map is not of good quality? :S
It's clear that you are ignorant regarding the quality standards of today's beatmapping. If you are willing to cause strife, then pleeeease don't.
If - however - you seriously have any concerns about the map's quality, you are more than welcome to make a mod (and actually find stuff to prove your statement) or talk to me in-game and explain why you think the map is not of good quality.

As for the stubborn part: I am not being stubborn I am just not getting actually useful mods for any difficulty other than fartownik's and any testplayer that I have forced into playing this has stated that there are no flow issues and imo the map looks aesthetically fine. As for the rhythm, I see nothing wrong with it and nor does any modder who dealt with this beatmap set so far. (P A N made some good suggestions though).

And on an end note, I am - in no way possible - going to sacrifice the quality of any of my beatmaps and be stubborn with it in order to get it ranked.
Fartwonik did some major changes that he did not intend to do initially, just for the sake of rankabilty. So, saying that anyone who worked on this set is stubborn, is extremely rude and offensive.

TL;DR

Artist's pixiv: http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=2696273

Woah. I think....I think you missed my point.....by a mile.....

Don't be so vain, I was just linking the image of garven's userpage to try and reinforce my post before about how the low quality mods are ruining your map because everything thinks more mods = better map when it's really not true. Especially when you have a unique mapping style. Jesus dude I wasn't insulting you, I didn't even say your map was low quality, it's the only map on my 9,000 strong list thats unranked.